What a Joke - I'm being called a scammer (LOL) | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

18 years ago

This does bring up a good question regarding the VSA.

*Should* affiliates get credit if the 'leaving' visitor purchases through the discount link in the VSA?

I think I have the VSA on one of my CB sites and if the visitor goes through the VSA discount link, they too are credited since i'm using CB and the cookie is tracked.

Interesting thought though...

Adeel Chowdhry

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TheMagicShow

18 years ago

If your business gets tons of traffic already , then drop aff networks like cb, but I wouldn't let one soul ruin it all for you, just drop this individual from your program and try to recruit more affiliates who do work in a professional way.

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mmurtha

18 years ago

Man Mike,

Lol that stinks. The good news though is that you know who he is.

I just love the cowards lol! As Paul M says, they are chicken sh*ts, and nothing more.

Perhaps it's time to take some screen shots of the clickbank info for him, then simply cut him loose.

Btw, The closed door policy is good for me. I don't seem to get too many headaches that way.

All the best ...

Mary

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Kurt

18 years ago

It's the old 80/20 rule. But with affiliates, it's more like 95/5.

If I do have affiliates, it will only be a very few, and they will be the top performers.

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GarrieWilson

18 years ago

I use VSA and it is NOT initiated unless a visitor leaves the site without ordering. Hence they weren't going to purchase in the first place because, as you'll see in a minute that the traffic he is sending is completely un-targeted to the offer.

You do not know that. I leave sites all the time and return later to purchase. PLUS your own stats shows how inacurate that statement is because 49% return - for a reason. Of course if he is using a traffic system then thats a different story.

I even tell people to LEAVE sites to see if a VSA is working to get it cheaper.

Are you 100% positive that none of the people leaving or returning purchased via the VSA? Do you give credit for the VSA sales?

*Should* affiliates get credit if the 'leaving' visitor purchases through the discount link in the VSA?

Yes but I'm against using VSAs for discounts.

Garrie

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Adeel_Chowdhry

18 years ago

Another point...

If the traffic (untargeted or otherwise) the affiliate sent never came in the first place, Mike wouldn't even have gotten that sale via the VSA...

Adeel

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry

Another point...

If the traffic (untargeted or otherwise) the affiliate sent never came in the first place, Mike wouldn't even have gotten that sale via the VSA...

Adeel

But the point is there have been no sales from this affiliate even before I put up the VSA... Other affiliates are converting and getting credit for their sales.

Mike Hill

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

You do not know that. I leave sites all the time and return later to purchase. PLUS your own stats shows how inacurate that statement is because 49% return - for a reason. Of course if he is using a traffic system then thats a different story.

They come back to rip off the copy.... LOL

I can guarantee the traffic he sent is junk traffic because this was happening with this dude even before I put up the VSA.

No the stats aren't inaccurate because the traffic that returns from him still aren't buying. I have redundant tracking setup and can see exactly what's going on.

All my other affiliates are having no problem converting and getting credit for their sales. I do not interfere with ClickBank cookies.

Mike Hill

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GarrieWilson

18 years ago

Does the affiliate get credit from VSA sales?

As far as returning to rip your copy off, you don't know that. I have people come multiple times before buying. It takes what, 7 times to sell?

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Does the affiliate get credit from VSA sales?

As far as returning to rip your copy off, you don't know that. I have people come multiple times before buying. It takes what, 7 times to sell?

Good Lord I'm joking about that... hence the LOL after that...

It takes what, 7 times to sell?

More like 12 to 14 times to sell and that's why I capture leads as well.

Mike Hill

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GarrieWilson

18 years ago

Ok, you didn't answer my question the second time I asked. So, I will ask a 3rd and final time. If you don't answer, then I will assume you don't.

Do you give the affiliate credit for sales generated from the VSA and/or followup emails?

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Ok, you didn't answer my question the second time I asked. So, I will ask a 3rd and final time. If you don't answer, then I will assume you don't.

Do you give the affiliate credit for sales generated from the VSA and/or followup emails?

THERE ARE NO SALES FROM THE VSA ... ITS FOR A FREE REPORT IF THEY DECIDE TO LEAVE AND HOW THE HELL AM I GOING TO GIVE CREDIT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ON MY LIST... IT'S CALLED BUILD YOUR OWN DAM LIST ... DON'T COME ALL ABOARD ME BECAUSE I BUILD A FREAKEN LIST!!! BUILDING A LIST IS MARKETING 101... THE AFFILIATES ARE ALL COOKIED FROM CLICKBANK AND IF THEY DO NOT DELETE COOKIES YOU WILL GET CREDIT... I NORMALLY DON'T SEND FOLLOW UP EMAILS FOR THAT PRODUCT...

***** I GIVE MY AFFILIATES EVERY AVAILABLE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE SALE AND EVEN GIVE THEM A QUALITY FREE REPORT THAT IS BRANDABLE... IF THEY DO NOT USE IT IT'S NOT MY FAULT.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION GARRIE????????

THERE ARE A LOT OF CB PRODUCTS USING VSA, NOT JUST ME...

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rondo

18 years ago

Mike, unless you are overriding their affiliate link at some stage I don't see any problem. I assume you're not doing that.

Why not just tell him to join your list and see for himself how the followup process works.

Andrew

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

Mike, unless you are overiding their affiliate link at some stage I don't see a problem. I assume you're not doing that.

Why not just tell him to join your list and see for himself how the followup process works.

Andrew

That's just it, I'm not overiding affiliate links... I'm just being a responsible marketer. I give good quality affiliate tools and if they do not use them then I've done all I can do.

The report I provide should be a product on it's own it's that good and it's converting at over 7%. It's brandable and I give instructions and the rebrander tool.

Mike Hill

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GarrieWilson

18 years ago

Then explain that to the person.

Explain that YOU are capturing the emails to increse HIS conversions. That the traffic HE SENDS is cookied for future sales for the product - incase they return and purchase.

He is probably assuming that YOU do like many of the other marketers and send them to different purchase links. Hence, he thinks you are scamming him.

As far as your other comments, I know Marketing 101 very well and list building, thanks.

I asked the question to look at it from the affiliate side because you left details out and just bitched. Which Allen even made a post about it being bog content. So *I* was looking at it from a marketing aspect instead of joining in and saying "oh that sucks"

Garrie

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Then explain that to the person.

Explain that YOU are capturing the emails to increse HIS conversions. That the traffic HE SENDS is cookied for future sales for the product - incase they return and purchase.

He is probably assuming that YOU do like many of the other marketers and send them to different purchase links. Hence, he thinks you are scamming him.

As far as your other comments, I know Marketing 101 very well and list building, thanks.

I asked the question to look at it from the affiliate side because you left details out and just bitched. Which Allen even made a post about it being bog content. So *I* was looking at it from a marketing aspect instead of joining in and saying "oh that sucks"

Garrie

Yeah okay fair enough... missed the memo on that one

But next time lets keep the text to normal. I responded with larger text in reply to your comment about not replying a third time to your question in like a space of 10 minutes...

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Ok, you didn't answer my question the second time I asked. So, I will ask a 3rd and final time. If you don't answer, then I will assume you don't.

Do you give the affiliate credit for sales generated from the VSA and/or followup emails?

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GarrieWilson

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

Yeah okay fair enough... missed the memo on that one

But next time lets keep the text to normal. I responded with larger text in reply to your comment about not replying a third time to your question in like a space of 10 minutes...

Umm. It was larger for a reason. The 2nd time I asked, it was bolded and you even quoted it. Yet didn't reply to it - just replied about the copy. So don't even goto the "it was only 10 minute since you asked". So, I made the 3rd time bigger because people normally don't answer because 1) They didnt see it or 2) it makes them look "bad" if they do. But I thought, hey maybe he missed it so I'll ask to where is cant be missed.

Now back to tv I mean work for me.

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Mike Hill

18 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Umm. It was larger for a reason. The 2nd time I asked, it was bolded and you even quoted it. Yet didn't reply to it - just replied about the copy. So don't even goto the "it was only 10 minute since you asked". So, I made the 3rd time bigger because people normally don't answer because 1) They didnt see it or 2) it makes them look "bad" if they do. But I thought, hey maybe he missed it so I'll ask to where is cant be missed.

Now back to tv I mean work for me.

Whatever...

But when someone makes a statement like you did ... here "So, I will ask a 3rd and final time. If you don't answer, then I will assume you don't." then I see that as a pot-shot in the way it was presented and assumed!

Mike Hill

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Chris Lockwood

18 years ago

If the VSA isn't offering something for sale, how does that affiliate think he's losing sales?

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ExRat 18 years ago

This is a great show
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- Steven Wagenheim 18 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  This is a great show
  
  Yeah, and there you are again hogging all the popcorn.
  
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Kym Robinson

18 years ago

I say you direct this one rogue pain in the butt to a competing affiliate program and ditch the bitch!

I hope people on this thread have got it out their system now and are feeling better....lolz!
Kym

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Floyd Fisher

18 years ago

It's clickbank.

Unless he's got proof of cookie stuffing, he needs to contact them about commission issues, not you.

I'd simply give him clickbank's phone number and let them sort it out.

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BIG Mike

Banned 18 years ago

[DELETED]

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johntanyishin 18 years ago

lol, what the hell..

Ask him to scr*w himself.

JTYS
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brockbraddock

18 years ago

Mike, I just went through your process by linking to your site with my CB affiliate link, then closing the page, getting the Virtual Smart Agent, following the link to sign up for the free report and finally clicking the link in the report and clicking through to the order form. Still had my affiliate id on the order form so what you're doing looks perfectly fine to me.

On another unrelated matter your Virtual Smart Agent (Lori) started talking dirty to me. Tell her I'll pick her up at 7:00 tonight. Don't wait up for her.

Brock

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seasoned

18 years ago

Well, as a devil's advocate, I will give you the following POSSIBLE insight to that person:

1. Some people, even HERE, are HYPOCRITS! They want free affiliates, but want to get paid JUST because they are affiliates.
2. They look for way to get rich saying half truths, but believe what they are told.
3. They may order a "lead service", and they may get a report that says the sent you 3000 links.
4. YOU might say 3% conversion, and average $45 per.
5. THEY figure 3000*.03*45 =4050, and figure you OWE them that!
6. Since you didn't pay them ANYTHING, they figure you are a scammer.

BTW I am not in ANY of those camps!

1. I DON'T!
2. I DON'T!
3. Most "lead services" are scams, and others are RARELY targeted.
4. Meaningless all too often.
5. Nice formula, but doesn't cover bad targeting, bad preselling, bad qualification, network hiccups, etc....
6. I would hessitate calling you on it.

In truth, I have sent THOUSANDS of links to some of you guys with NO SALES! I used PPC to make some HFP sales, and the cost was just TOO high! But I won't hold that against anyone. And HFPs best selling point is the MLM aspect, and premiums like this.

STEVE

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Emailrevealer 18 years ago

I don't think you should give up on affiliates. I run an inhouse affiliate program and some of my affiliates have become very good marketing partners and friends.

maybe you should drop CB and go inhouse. It sounds like you have a strong business with enough traffic. Why pay CB?
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Joseph Ratliff

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

This really ticked me off...

Tonight I got 12 emails from a coward who is an affiliate for one of my products. I call him a coward because they didn't leave there name. They contacted me through my Virtual Smart Agent.

This one person (I now know who he is from my tracking programs) told me I have one week to fix a problem with my product page.

He accuses me of stealing his commissions...

I use VSA and it is NOT initiated unless a visitor leaves the site without ordering. Hence they weren't going to purchase in the first place because, as you'll see in a minute that the traffic he is sending is completely un-targeted to the offer.

He also states that he will post on blogs about this scam (LOL). He says he sends a lot of traffic to my site which is definitely not true.... LOL

According to my tracking reports and Google Analytics and my weblogs this guy has sent me exactly 777 visitors of which 49% are return visits, since September 13th.

When I look at my ClickBank stats this guy is sending junk traffic. Not a single sale which is why I think he is upset and looking for someone to blame.

My website converts very well for my other affiliates so the sales page is definitely NOT the issue here.

I think I may adopt Steven Wagenheim's policy of NO affiliates... A lot of them are more trouble than they are worth. Actually I just may initiate a closed door affiliate program instead.

Mike Hill

In the employment world...even 100% commission sales positions require an interview of some sort to make sure that the salesperson isn't a total flake.

I have always wondered why "qualification" has not been used online for affiliate programs, ensuring that only those affiliates with a contribution mindset get in.

Like you said Mike, this particular affiliate was sending you "junk" traffic...so what good does he do your business? Absolutely no good.

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Emailrevealer

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Ratliff

In the employment world...even 100% commission sales positions require an interview of some sort to make sure that the salesperson isn't a total flake.

I have always wondered why "qualification" has not been used online for affiliate programs, ensuring that only those affiliates with a contribution mindset get in.

Like you said Mike, this particular affiliate was sending you "junk" traffic...so what good does he do your business? Absolutely no good.

That's why I recommend an ihouse program. Lately I've been taking the time to call my new affiliates on the phone for a caht. It's been working out great too. If they sound shady I can keep an eye on them and if they sound like a noob I can give more attention and help.

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Steven Wagenheim

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

I think I may adopt Steven Wagenheim's policy of NO affiliates... A lot of them are more trouble than they are worth. Actually I just may initiate a closed door affiliate program instead.

Mike Hill

I knew I felt my ears burning

Mike, if you had my problems with some affiliates you'd give up this business.

One almost put me OUT of business spamming the entire world. He got all
my sites blacklisted and I haven't been able to get them unlisted since.

It's a miracle I get the traffic and sales that I do because most of my
sites (except the ones I put up after this idiot did what he did) get very
few emails through using Aweber, or even through my own customer
support emails and you won't find them listed at the SEs.

Forget writing to URBL or whatever that stupid site is (can't remember
the name off hand) cause they don't do jack sh*t.

And still, I just ran an affiliate contest about a week ago. I won't even
get into the response from a 5,000 member list mailing even offering a
decent first, second and third prize. The apathy among affiliates is just
staggering.

Anyway, I feel your pain and wish I could offer a solution, but I have my
own headaches with affiliates that I have yet to figure out.

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seasoned 18 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Forget writing to URBL or whatever that stupid site is (can't remember
the name off hand) cause they don't do jack sh*t.

You DO realize that most of those sites have NO agreement, so you must contact them all SEPARATELY! Unfortunately, you have almost no grounds, as far as THEY are concerned, to be delisted. They will want PROOF that an affiliate did what they did, and that you have taken measures to prevent it. Of course, from what I here, several of them are JERKS, so GOOD LUCK!

To add MORE insult to injury, many spam checkers use their results to determine if something is spam. So don't use that IP or email domain in emails.

Steve
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MarkHBE

18 years ago

Probably most of us have been called scammers at some point. Some people you just can't please, and they're quick to get angry and throw out accusations. It sucks, but I guess that's how it'll always be. Unfortunately, sometimes they can be very loud.

Remember that most of your other affiliates are happy. And, most likely, your customers too. Hopefully, that'll remind you that you're doing things right.

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Najat Engineer

18 years ago

loool just ignore him

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What a Joke - I'm being called a scammer (LOL)

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