The Truth about making money online

62 replies
Before I start let me say that I expect this post to stir things up a bit, but it's how I feel so i make no apologies for it.

I think it's important to highlight the truth about making money online. Let's get straight to the punch - 98% of people spend more on the "magic buttons" and other programs than they eventually make.

too many marketers are prying on people and their dreams. The usualy 15k in 1 month doing 4 hours work type of headlines and sales copy. Do this and you can't possibily not make money etc etc

You see sure the guys behind these claims have made this money, however these guys have lists, or have contacts, or have some sort of background. With the current "crisis" we are in too many people are buying into the dream and some marketers are really taking advantage.

In fact it kills me but i know of one marketer who was selling something (no names products or services mentioned) and the marketer was overheard laughing with his buddies how he really did not care about much apart from his bottom line.

Damn it folks so marketers are prying on people and promoting theirs and other peoples products without really caring that people won't make money with their products, maybe a very very small % will but not a whole lot.

I've coached people who have joined coaching programs and worked hard but were only given empty promises - guru's promising one on one coaching and not doing it, or doing it for a while and then nothing....

The fact that everyone has to see is that no matter what product you buy it's worth shag all unless you have a plan of some sort.

Sure you can spend money on the perfect list building system/program/course however if you don't do anything with it - it's useless.

Even if you do something with it if you have no traffic strategy it's useless
Even if you have a traffic strategy it's useless unless you have a product to offer
Even if you have a product to offer what's the use unless you provide something useful
Even if you have a useful product what's the point if you don't have a good follow up sequence....

You get where I am going here?

Too many people buy this and that and the other, heck I'll put up my hand and say i've done it too many times!, but they have no plan, no idea what they are doing, no business model or plan so what happens? Their house of cards business falls apart and they never make money.

Sure there is money to made online and a lot, but stop chasing the money making market, stop using plr as it is, stop selling junk and start building a business, a brand, a profile and more.

Here's what I think you need to do:
1) stop spending money
2) take stock of what you know and have
3) see what you could provide
4) draw up a business plan - set your goals
5) realise this is a business and work your plan
6) constantly refocus and re set your goals

Of course there's more to it than that but that's a good start

So how many people will make a promise in public to start thinking more about what they do online as a business and become more serious?

Richard
#making #money #online #truth
  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    I think you have summed it all up in this post.

    I usually treat my customers as they are my friends

    But what you have said is 99% true!

    And building a brand is important - and having a long-term business model.
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    Thank you Imran, what was the 1% I left out

    It's true though it has to be a long term business plan not a fly by night type of thing
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Mc Donald
      nice post buddy.. Good to see another Dubliner on the warriorforum too
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      • Profile picture of the author thobbs31
        Great post! It gets to the root of what I was trying to say the other night. It's an absolute shame that many take advantage of those looking for the golden parachute. I'll write an ebook soon, but it won't be for sale. I will give it away to anybody that wants it. No fluff or hype. Just exactly what I did to take the business to the next level. In my opinion, the biggest waste of time is looking for crap that will save you time. Yes, there are tools available. However, I haven't found anything yet that will relieve me of doing actual work. It just doesn't exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    Thanks dude, i've been around here a while lol, but been quite over the last 18 months, but i'm a coming back

    Tha
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    Thanks Thobbs

    I think there are many great tools that do save time or help build your list etc but you have to know what you are doing.

    No point in buying the best premises and most up to date equipment for a bricks and mortar store if you have no product or idea of what you are going to sell...

    r
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  • Profile picture of the author moneyblogger1
    Great post!

    Here is what I feel: Most people are too busy trying to make money online rather than building an online business. It is a subtle but huge difference.

    Business is hard people...get over it. If you are not willing to struggle and fight the fight then go work a job. Working a job is easier and it's no wonder why 95% of the population work for money.
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    Thanks Moneyblogger

    well 95% of population work for money, heck man how many now have no work as they put their eggs all in one basket?

    if we want to succeed we need to work hard for sure

    again thanks for the great input

    off to bed guys catch you all later
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    • Profile picture of the author rafib
      When I first found out that Internet Marketing meant hard work I was actually happy. Because for me, it meant that it was legitimate since nothing good comes easy.

      -Rafi
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      "too many marketers are prying on people and their dreams. The usual 15k in 1 month doing 4 hours work type of headlines and sales copy."

      Effective sales copy? errr....of course....when most WSOs go against this type of sales copy, they don't stand a chance.....

      I guess that is the point. They make alot of money, and the pages and pages of comments are definitely an indication that they are having an effect...

      Sometimes, I wonder though, just how successful people are with these methods....

      It's these WSOs that promise such huge opportunity, yet only sell for $7. If these methods were THAT effective, shouldn't they be selling for multiples of that?

      It's clearly the application of the method of using significantly hyped up sales copy in order to convert low priced sales over a greater mass of people.....if they don't work, I think these marketers are banking on the fact that people will subconsciously say "Well, it was only $7....it's not even worth it to ask for a refund...."

      Who am I to say the methods don't work?

      My major beef is that sales copy like this makes those WSO's who's methods claim a few hundred or even $1,000 extra per month look VERY VERY weak.... (although, IMHO, more reasonable...)

      Of course, what can I say, it's clearly working for those marketers....
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      You see sure the guys behind these claims have made this money, however these guys have lists, or have contacts, or have some sort of background. With the current "crisis" we are in too many people are buying into the dream and some marketers are really taking advantage.
      How do you think they got these lists?

      Do you think I was born with my 5,000 plus list?

      I'm sorry if I have to be the one to rain on this thread but this is the same
      usual excuse making that I'm so sick and tired of hearing.

      When I first started, I had lost my job. I was on the verge of homelessness.
      I didn't have any idea what I was doing and it showed. I made $28 in 5
      months.

      Nobody preyed on me. Nobody took advantage of me.

      I did what I had to do to get the knowledge I needed to make something
      of myself.

      This BS excuse that these guys made the money because they had lists
      is just that...BS.

      I earned that list by working hard and smart.

      So if I show somebody that they can do the same, you better be damn
      sure that I mean it...provided that they are willing to bust THEIR ass in
      the process too.

      Making excuses for lists or contacts or whatever is just that...excuses
      for people simply not putting in the time and effort that they're supposed
      to in order to have the success that they want.

      Now you can all go toss your slings and arrows at me.

      But somebody has to bring a little realism to this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        How do you think they got these lists?

        Do you think I was born with my 5,000 plus list?

        I'm sorry if I have to be the one to rain on this thread but this is the same
        usual excuse making that I'm so sick and tired of hearing.

        When I first started, I had lost my job. I was on the verge of homelessness.
        I didn't have any idea what I was doing and it showed. I made $28 in 5
        months.

        Nobody preyed on me. Nobody took advantage of me.

        I did what I had to do to get the knowledge I needed to make something
        of myself.

        This BS excuse that these guys made the money because they had lists
        is just that...BS.

        I earned that list by working hard and smart.

        So if I show somebody that they can do the same, you better be damn
        sure that I mean it...provided that they are willing to bust THEIR ass in
        the process too.

        Making excuses for lists or contacts or whatever is just that...excuses
        for people simply not putting in the time and effort that they're supposed
        to in order to have the success that they want.

        Now you can all go toss your slings and arrows at me.


        But somebody has to bring a little realism to this thread.
        Slings and arrows are so primitive Steven....lol

        but...seriously, good points
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      • Profile picture of the author thobbs31
        Amen, Steven. That's all I was trying to do...bring realism.

        Reality for me is there are a bunch of people out there making a TON of money offering a hope and a prayer. And month after month after month, people line up to buy their crap. The crap bounces from marketer to marketer and the buyers bounce right along with them. They opt in to every site they visit and their bank account shrinks. The lucky ones get here before they bankrupt themselves. Others ignore what they learn here and think they can do better, regardless of what every person here tells him/her.

        I hope, when I reach the level I want to reach, I am as patient as many of you more seasoned folks have been and continue to be. Nothing bothers me more than somebody asking for advice and then arguing with you when you give it. It's a crazy world we live in.

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author Zanti
          So far it seems to me all of you are making the same point. You have to have a plan and put in the hard work to make it pay off. I'm not seeing anything in the OP that is counter to that.

          Not all people in IM are ethical, we all know that. Some make bogus claims in the hope that someone will bite and many do. That's what I took from the OP.

          IM is a business and it must be seen as such. Not a get rich scheme that'll transform you into a millionaire overnight.

          Brian
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

            So far it seems to me all of you are making the same point. You have to have a plan and put in the hard work to make it pay off. I'm not seeing anything in the OP that is counter to that.

            Not all people in IM are ethical, we all know that. Some make bogus claims in the hope that someone will bite and many do. That's what I took from the OP.

            IM is a business and it must be seen as such. Not a get rich scheme that'll transform you into a millionaire overnight.

            Brian
            Here's the difference. The OP is putting the blame on the product
            sellers. I'm putting the blame on the people who buy them.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Thanks Steven,

    I just didn't have the guts tonight. Darn flu again.

    George Wright, P.S. EDIT: and if you show somebody how you do it and you charge for showing them you are not a bad person. And if they let your eBook or Video or whatever set on their hard drive and never use it that's still not your fault. AND if they follow your method to the "best of their ability" and fail that's still not your fault. I know several Grads from Law/Real Estate/Med school who didn't pass the bar/Make anything selling Real Estate/Become Doctors. They still had to pay back their student loans. The dream is alive and doable. SELL the dream if that's what you do. It seems sometimes that half the people here would have issues with all of the Universities, Book Stores, and any other Education businesses.
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    • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
      George no problem with selling the dream if you tell people the full story

      Most of know that what a lot of marketers sell is not the full story, not the full blueprint. There's a lot of cr$p peddled out there, I know I've bought some of it. Just look at the review forum.

      Sales copy sells even the worst stuff

      I am not saying people are making excuses, I'm saying that what they are being sold is not always the truth
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

        George no problem with selling the dream if you tell people the full story

        Most of know that what a lot of marketers sell is not the full story, not the full blueprint. There's a lot of cr peddled out there, I know I've bought some of it. Just look at the review forum.

        Sales copy sells even the worst stuff

        I am not saying people are making excuses, I'm saying that what they are being sold is not always the truth
        Let's see, what is truth?

        Testimonial - By using this system, I made $300 my first week. I
        couldn't believe how easy it was.

        John Doe

        Now, Jane Smith reads testimonial, buys product and finds that for her
        it's NOT easy. She can't make heads or tails of it.

        Was John Doe lying?

        When the sales page says, "I personally made $500 my first week using
        this system I discovered" is the product creator lying?

        If you're going to accuse people of flat out lying, that's one thing. But
        then you better have the proof to back it up or you could find yourself
        open to a lawsuit for libel, slander or whatever.

        But if you want to go down the route of "withholding information" how
        much info do you expect people to divulge?

        "To make this system work you need to do the following:"

        1. Work 14 hours a day.
        2. Write 100 articles in 7 days.
        3. Go to 50 social bookmarking sites each day.
        4. Build a following of 5,000 Twitter followers.

        And then Jane Smith does all that and she still doesn't get the results
        she's looking for.

        What do you think is going to happen?

        She's going to bitch and complain that something was still left out.

        Again, it's all excuses. People want to be spoon fed.

        If I tell you that if you pick up XYZ package of mine and it can make you
        $2,500 a month, please don't fricken ask me what you have to do in
        order to make that money because that tells me you're a lazy SOB and I
        don't want you even buying my product.

        People need to get their heads out of the lottery mentality and realize
        that everything in life takes work.

        And stop blaming the sales pages for feeding their pipe dreams.

        Trust me...sales pages can't make them any worse than they already
        are.
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    • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
      Steven

      thanks for the comments and I respect what you are saying, and sure there are a lot of people who try to make excuses, sure people want a short cut and there are many people who take advantage of this.
      Sure they might seem silly to more seasoned marketers, but people still fall for it.

      I think if you look at a lot of sales pages people do get sold the dream and not told the full story of the work that needs to be put into it, they are sold push button solutions etc

      Am I the only person who thinks this?
      Am I the only person who thinks that sometimes what is promised is not delivered?
      Look at the review section and see what others are thinking about products/services etc

      Anyways night all
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

        Steven

        thanks for the comments and I respect what you are saying, and sure there are a lot of people who try to make excuses, sure people want a short cut and there are many people who take advantage of this.
        Sure they might seem silly to more seasoned marketers, but people still fall for it.

        I think if you look at a lot of sales pages people do get sold the dream and not told the full story of the work that needs to be put into it, they are sold push button solutions etc

        Am I the only person who thinks this?
        Am I the only person who thinks that sometimes what is promised is not delivered?
        Look at the review section and see what others are thinking about products/services etc

        Anyways night all

        Richard, get a good night's sleep.

        I'll leave you with this.

        This is the typical email I get from the person who wants to put in as
        little work as possible for making money online.

        "Steve - I saw your XYZ product and it sounds good. Just a few questions.

        1. How many hours a day will I have to put into this?

        2. How much can I expect to make in say 30 days?

        I'm not expecting to get rich, but I just want some guarantee that I can
        make at least $X."

        This is what I usually reply back, if I bother replying at all. Most of these
        emails, I just ignore.

        "Hi <name>:

        I get a lot of emails like these. I have found from experience that the
        people who send them are looking to make as much as possible with as
        little work as possible. So let me save us both a lot of time and trouble.

        I suggest you look elsewhere for your make money at home solution.

        Sincerely,

        Steven Wagenheim"

        And I'm done with it.

        Been at this long enough to know the type. And sadly, there are way too
        many of these people out there.

        It is what it is. So please...let's put the blame where the blame belongs.

        PS - I know we'll never agree on this, and that's cool. Life would be boring
        if we all agreed on everything.
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        • Profile picture of the author Terri LC
          As a newbie, it does take a longggg time to figure out that we are being pulled in by some sellers. I personally couldn't wrap my head around the notion that they couldn't possibly be pulling my leg.....the problem is, we WANT TO believe it.

          I've bought enough products now to know what is what, and its not until you come across some folks who walk you through a process or are painfully honest that we finally understand how IM works.

          The best advice I've gotten was recently when a warrior said to unsubscribe from 90% of my opt-ins, which is exactly what I did.

          Sure, the money might be in the list but if all you do is sell sell sell, the unsubscribe button is just a click away. In fact, this weekend, that button is my new best friend! I've also stopped opting in from everything and will work with what I have.

          As I feel like I'm starting to progress from a gumshoe to a sleuth, it is sad to see so many newbies coming on board and starting from scratch....its those folks I look forward to assisting in the future.

          Cheers,
          TLC
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        • Profile picture of the author Votoshka
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Richard, get a good night's sleep.

          I'll leave you with this.

          This is the typical email I get from the person who wants to put in as
          little work as possible for making money online.

          "Steve - I saw your XYZ product and it sounds good. Just a few questions.

          1. How many hours a day will I have to put into this?

          2. How much can I expect to make in say 30 days?

          I'm not expecting to get rich, but I just want some guarantee that I can
          make at least ."

          This is what I usually reply back, if I bother replying at all. Most of these
          emails, I just ignore.

          "Hi <name>:

          I get a lot of emails like these. I have found from experience that the
          people who send them are looking to make as much as possible with as
          little work as possible. So let me save us both a lot of time and trouble.

          I suggest you look elsewhere for your make money at home solution.

          Sincerely,

          Steven Wagenheim"

          And I'm done with it.

          Been at this long enough to know the type. And sadly, there are way too
          many of these people out there.

          It is what it is. So please...let's put the blame where the blame belongs.

          PS - I know we'll never agree on this, and that's cool. Life would be boring
          if we all agreed on everything.
          Steven... I just wonder, why do you instantly dismiss everyone who sends you such a query as a lazy SOB who doesn't want to put any work in?

          I think many people HAVE been burned by unscrupulous marketers (sure people should know better, but some sales copy is VERY good ) and they're a little afraid that if they buy into a new program and they do put in the hard yards that it will all be for nothing. I guess people just want a bit of certainty.

          Some people (well a lot of people) don't have hours and hours a day to devote to building their business. Most are doing it while working full time, having a family, and other responsibilities. They want to know that IF they put in the time, will they get a reward? Or will they be out the $97 they spent to buy the program, and out all those hours they put in (and missed out on time with loved ones etc.)

          Sure, there are some folks who want it all handed to them on a silver platter, but there are also folks who are genuinely confused, skeptical, and willing to put in the work if there is honestly some light at the end. So yeah, some guy wants to know that if he puts in X hours a week he'll be earning $Y by the end of the month... that doesn't make him lazy, it just means he's a little cautious!

          Still I agree with the general principles you're espousing. I just don't think everyone is stupid and lazy
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        • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Richard, get a good night's sleep.

          I'll leave you with this.

          This is the typical email I get from the person who wants to put in as
          little work as possible for making money online.

          "Steve - I saw your XYZ product and it sounds good. Just a few questions.

          1. How many hours a day will I have to put into this?

          2. How much can I expect to make in say 30 days?

          I'm not expecting to get rich, but I just want some guarantee that I can
          make at least ."

          This is what I usually reply back, if I bother replying at all. Most of these
          emails, I just ignore.

          "Hi <name>:

          I get a lot of emails like these. I have found from experience that the
          people who send them are looking to make as much as possible with as
          little work as possible. So let me save us both a lot of time and trouble.

          I suggest you look elsewhere for your make money at home solution.

          Sincerely,

          Steven Wagenheim"

          And I'm done with it.

          Been at this long enough to know the type. And sadly, there are way too
          many of these people out there.

          It is what it is. So please...let's put the blame where the blame belongs.

          PS - I know we'll never agree on this, and that's cool. Life would be boring
          if we all agreed on everything.
          Is that a templated email, Steven? It must get tiring receiving emails like that, and having to waste your time responding.... (time=money, afterall...)
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    Steven

    thanks for the rain!

    It's not excuse making at all. Of course you weren't born with a 5k list

    From your post it shows you worked, great
    as you say:
    I did what I had to do to get the knowledge I needed to make something
    of myself.
    Not everyone does this, so you were ahead of the rest.

    And my point of this thread is just what you say, you gotta bust your ass and work hard. There is no easy way. A lot of these gurus promise this and people buy it, thus they are prying on those who just look for a quick fix. Like it or not there are many many marketers prying on people right now with their snake oil claims.

    My point above was sure X markerter can make 15k in X days, as they have the list to do it - quite simple. But that's not going to work for everyone, they leave out the essentials - plan out your business and build it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      Steven

      thanks for the rain!

      It's not excuse making at all. Of course you weren't born with a 5k list

      From your post it shows you worked, great
      as you say:


      Not everyone does this, so you were ahead of the rest.

      And my point of this thread is just what you say, you gotta bust your ass and work hard. There is no easy way. A lot of these gurus promise this and people buy it, thus they are prying on those who just look for a quick fix. Like it or not there are many many marketers prying on people right now with their snake oil claims.

      My point above was sure X markerter can make 15k in X days, as they have the list to do it - quite simple. But that's not going to work for everyone, they leave out the essentials - plan out your business and build it.

      Are there snake oil salesmen? Sure there are. But you're making it sound
      like every guru in the world is just that.

      Have you taken a look at Jeff Walkers Product Launch Formula?

      I guarantee you that if anybody follows that process to the letter, they
      can easily have a 6 figure product launch in any niche.

      Last I looked, I haven't seen many respected marketers sales pages saying
      that you can make umpteen millions of dollars in 7 days with no work.

      And while sales copy is what it is (that's what it's supposed to be) I have
      yet to buy a product, based off the sales copy, where I could honestly
      say that the info inside was absolute trash and the copy was a complete
      lie.

      And let's be honest. The reason that the sales copy IS what it is, is
      because you tell these lazy people (yes, they are lazy people) that they
      have to do any work at all and they're out of there.

      These people are looking for a lottery ticket...not a business.

      These people wouldn't succeed with any product regardless of how good
      it was or how honest the sales copy was.

      My products say that you can make $X with them.

      No, I don't say that you have to put in 47 thousand freaking hours a week
      into them. I say what is possible with them...realistically.

      If people want to hope and pray that they can do that working 2 hours
      a week while watching YouTube videos, that's not my freaking problem.

      The entitlement mentality of this world is the reason why people fail.

      I have enough sense to read a sales page and realize that whatever
      they say I can make, I have to put in work.

      There's that dirty word again.

      If people want to think that something requires no work (and again, show
      me one sales page of a respected marketer that says can be done with
      no work
      and I'll eat my shorts) then that's what they're going to think
      and it isn't MY problem.

      Sorry, but I'm buying your argument.

      We are all adults and we are all responsible for our own success and
      failures.

      Not some sales page.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ricci Cox
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        We are all adults and we are all responsible for our own success and
        failures.

        Not some sales page.
        I have to agree with Steven.

        Far too many people buy a product, expecting to click a magic button and have £100,000 in their bank account the next day.

        If it was that easy then EVERYONE would be rich. Like Steven said, its the lottery mentality that most people have. This get rich quick idea. Even if those people did get lucky and strike it rich, they would be broke in no time at all...

        Because it's all in their mentality. The same reason you see in the paper that some guy wins $10M on the lottery and is broke again in 5 years...!

        To succeed in ANY walk of life (not just IM) it takes damn hard work, commitment and a real desire to succeed.

        And when you do put in the hard work and dedicate yourself to learn something new and achieve your goals because of your own actions, it feels damn good I can tell you.
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  • Profile picture of the author nuz
    Steve makes a good point but in thesuccesscoach's defense, as someone who has barely made any money myself and I'm still learning, a lot of these sales letters do make it sound like you can push a button and VOILA! you will make $5000 that simple.

    The point he's making is that it is not that simple and people who say it is should stop selling us dreams.

    You basically said it also, it has to be worked for and I am now learning that after a couple of thousand dollars later.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdamBartol
    Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post


    too many marketers are prying on people and their dreams. The usualy 15k in 1 month doing 4 hours work type of headlines and sales copy. Do this and you can't possibily not make money etc etc
    I'm probably the minority here, but I find it funny the amount of flack the "Make Money Online" niche gets. I'd be willing to bet most successful IMers and people here were introduced to this business by buying these type of products, which they were attracted to by these ridiculous claims.

    That said, I don't agree with not delivering on the promise followed by not honoring the money back guarantees.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    Thanks Steven,

    what I took from the OP is that he was calling out the unethical marketers. I don't think of any of your products that I've seen you make outrageous claims. What you sell works, if the buyer puts in the effort to make it work. This is as it should be. And yes, it will always be, buyer beware.

    The problem is that a lot of newer people in IM, just don't even know what to beware of, and are sold a bill of goods. Is it their problem that they didn't know enough not to get taken, sure, but is it a problem in IM that there are those who seek to take advantage, yes. There's culpability on both sides, I think so.

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

      Thanks Steven,

      what I took from the OP is that he was calling out the unethical marketers. I don't think of any of your products that I've seen you make outrageous claims. What you sell works, if the buyer put in the effort to make it work. This is as it should be. And yes, it will always be, buyer beware.

      The problem is that a lot of newer people in IM, just don't even know what to beware of, and are sold a bill of goods. Is it their problem that they didn't know enough not to get taken, sure, but is it a problem in IM that there are those who seek to take advantage, yes. There's culpability on both sides, I think so.

      Brian
      Brian, wanna hear something funny?

      My wife is a high school math teacher.

      She teaches in an urban school and sadly, many of her students fail.

      The students and the parents blame the teachers, saying they don't teach
      them properly.

      I blame the parents for not teaching these kids responsibility. Think any
      of them crack open a book when they get home?

      My daughter, when she was in 5th grade, learned from my wife high
      school algebra.

      She was able to do math that these high school kids couldn't do.

      Obviously, my wife knew how to teach.

      Sorry, it's the same excuse. If these people had parents that taught them
      growing up that anything in life takes work, IF they ran into a sales page
      with outrageous claims (and please point these out to me) they'd laugh
      their asses off and go elsewhere.

      I've seen some of the top sales pages for some of the top IM products in
      the last 7 years and there is nothing outrageous on them that I can see
      now knowing what's possible.

      In fact, because of the FTC, you have to be VERY careful about what you
      put on salescopy. Even Clickbank is cracking down on sales pages that
      are over the top and not approving the products.

      In fact, you can't even make income claims anymore on a sales page, if
      you ever could.

      Sorry...I'm putting the blame squarely where it belongs...on the shoulders
      of those who expect the sky to open up and rain $100 bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dital
    Excellent post!

    When I first started online, I met with all that hype and was very frustrated too because the necessary follow up, explanation and or truth was never available.

    Sure, there are many who are there to provide the purchaser with what they paid for, but many are just for the easy quick buck. And that really contributes to newbies losing enthusiasm.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    Steven I think you're actually making my point. What I'm saying is that it takes work and you don't get something for nothing. Why is the FTC cracking down, are you saying that there are no unethical marketers out there? Of course there are and will always be.

    All I'm saying is there are unethical people out there. It's kind of like if you had someone in your neighborhood that was selling drugs out of their home. Would you report them, or would you say it's the buyers fault. I say it's both. I would report them and the buyers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

      Steven I think you're actually making my point. What I'm saying is that it takes work and you don't get something for nothing. Why is the FTC cracking down, are you saying that there are no unethical marketers out there? Of course there are and will always be.

      All I'm saying is there are unethical people out there. It's kind of like if you had someone in your neighborhood that was selling drugs out of their home. Would you report them, or would you say it's the buyers fault. I say it's both. I would report them and the buyers.
      Of course there are unethical marketers. There are unethical everything in
      this world. But for crying out loud, if somebody walks up to you and says,
      "Hey, if you blow on this whistle $100,000 will fall from the skies and I'm
      selling it for just $997" have a little common sense and realize that it's a
      load of horse manure.

      But people don't do that, so YES...I blame THEM and their entitlement
      mentality.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

      All I'm saying is there are unethical people out there. It's kind of like if you had someone in your neighborhood that was selling drugs out of their home. Would you report them, or would you say it's the buyers fault. I say it's both. I would report them and the buyers.
      OF course its both. The make money online niche is CLEARLY aimed at a lot of laziness and greed and then sellers cover for it by saying the people didn't work hard enough. NO sense in denying it. Its all over in the sales copy and products. If your copy is designed to suck those people in what kind of folly is it to complain when you get the people it was designed to reach .

      ON the other hand who makes these things sell? Even though there are copywriters claiming the power of hypnotism we buy what we buy because we want to not because they forced us to.

      I don't see the point of blasting people who claim its the sellers and always blaming the buyer. They both have part to play and the OP's post is on the money. He never indicted every single seller. He was talking trends and he's undeniably right to any objective observer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        OF course its both. The make money online niche is CLEARLY aimed at a lot of laziness and greed and then sellers cover for it by saying the people didn't work hard enough. NO sense in denying it. Its all over in the sales copy and products. If your copy is designed to suck those people in what kind of folly is it to complain when you get the people it was designed to reach .

        ON the other hand who makes these things sell? Even though there are copywriters claiming the power of hypnotism we buy what we buy because we want to not because they forced us to.

        I don't see the point of blasting people who claim its the sellers and always blaming the buyer. They both have part to play and the OP's post is on the money. He never indicted every single seller. He was talking trends and he's undeniably right to any objective observer.

        Mike, this is how simple it is.

        If people would use their heads and stop being so stupid, sellers wouldn't
        have anybody to sell to IF they're truly just selling a dream with no
        substance.

        Let me put it to you this way.

        See all these products out there that the OP is claiming exist and selling
        just the dream with no real substance?

        I haven't bought ONE OF THEM.

        So if everybody would just use their head for more than just a hat rack
        and realize that these wild claims couldn't possibly be possible, these
        sellers would all have to FINALLY come up with products that are realistic
        and doable.

        This is why I have repeat buyers of my products who have purchased
        in double digits as far as quantity.

        Could I do that over and over if I was selling a dream?

        And...if these people would, once they've realized they've been sold a
        bill of goods, simply ask for a refund, OR if they don't get one, put in a
        chargeback through their bank...again...these sellers would have to
        drastically change their ways.

        Sorry...I'm still not buying it. The buck has to stop with the consumer.

        The consumer has to:

        use his head
        ask for refunds where appropriate

        End of problem.

        But no, some of these people are too lazy to even ask for the refund.
        They can't be bothered sending a simple email for crying out loud.

        But yes, let's blame the sellers because people are stupid.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zanti
          Steven, you seem to make statements as if I'm not in agreement with you. I just don't paint a broad brush and make a lot of generalities.

          Yes, in some urban areas there are parents they don't teach their children responsibilities, just as is the case in many wealthy suburbs and rural areas. There are many children in urban areas who do in fact, crack open a book and are supported by their parents to work hard.

          Not everyone who falls for unethical marketing has an entitlement mentality. I don't think most of those who were taken by Bernie Madoff had an entitlement mentality. They thought they were making a sound investment with a great return. I'm not sure I would categorize those individuals as stupid either. In this case, should Bernie not have gone to jail, since the blame should only be placed on those who invested with him.

          Many who are taken in IM often think they are making a sound investment. Of those that are taken, I would say most are aware enough to know that blowing on a whistle will not bring a windfall of profits, it far more subtle than that.

          I've also given you credit for the quality products you produce. I'm not talking about marketers such as yourself. Nor have I said that the blame is just on the seller.

          Again, if there were not a problem with some sellers then why would the FTC make some of the changes it has done. I recognize there are problems on both sides of the aisle, not just one.

          I think there is also an entitlement mentality with some sellers, that they are entitled to someone's money by whatever means and way they can get it, ethical or not.

          So, yes, if everyone thought and conducted themselves the way that you do and have done, then there would be far fewer buyers who are taken and far fewer sellers who engage in unethical practices. Unfortunately or fortunately (depends on how each individual views it,) not everyone thinks the same way that you do.

          I think you set a good example of how an ethical marketer conducts his business in terms of quality products.

          Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Mike, this is how simple it is.

          If people would use their heads and stop being so stupid, sellers wouldn't
          have anybody to sell to IF they're truly just selling a dream with no
          substance.

          Let me put it to you this way.

          See all these products out there that the OP is claiming exist and selling
          just the dream with no real substance?

          Okay Steve. Lets look at it from both sides and hopefully we can do this in such a way that it sheds light not heat.

          I'll take your point above, agree and respond this way.

          If sellers didn't first start offering A $10,000 in three days from nothing product then the average buyer as lazy and stupid as he is (Not agreeing just going along with the characterization) wouldn't even think to demand such a thing. One things that is squarely in the sellers side is the communication network that sells the idea to begin with that such a thing is even possible. A great many people know little about the inner workings of the internet and don't have the tools to even claim to be sure it isn't possible. Sellers often use that ignorance of the Internet to great form. In fact you can't post a thread questioning something like that without someone interjecting that your problem is you think too small and don't have a positive attitude.

          So is the public stupid or just too trusting? (probably both)

          I haven't bought ONE OF THEM.
          Neither have I but we are not their target market. You know copywriters and even they will admit they paint a bullseye on their target market. Its their job.

          So if everybody would just use their head for more than just a hat rack and realize that these wild claims couldn't possibly be possible, these
          sellers would all have to FINALLY come up with products that are realistic
          and doable.
          Of course if we all had more Vulcan and less Human. Casinos would go broke in no time but that doesn't change that the Casino is looking to target and exploit the greed of human beings. Every guy that wins the lottery gets his picture taken with a big image of a check just to make the public think - Maybe that could be me? Imers are taught to do it with copy. Sellers DO create some of that dream.

          All that though just flat out ignores that it doesn't have to be about greed for everyone. Sometimes in an economy like this its desperation mixed in with hope. I had a thread about buyers a few weeks back where i nailed them - but all on the buyers? Not even close.


          But yes, let's blame the sellers because people are stupid.
          NO - blame sellers for exploiting human hopes and dreams when they do just that. Why should they get off the hook for being greedy and wanting the quick money from selling the quick money dream while the buyer gets pegged for wanting the same thing?

          (Worse when he does make the quick money from selling the quick dream he turns around and uses it as proof that its not just a dream neglecting to mention it can only be done by leading other gullible people)

          What you are essentially asking for is the complete change of the Human population where there will never be people who feel down on their luck and bite on a hope, Never believe they have no shot at the winning the lottery and don't believe that just the right information might make a change in their life.

          Indict the greedy and stupid sure but people buy also based on hope and hope is Human and not going anywhere which is why the seller has to have laws applied to him not to rip people off because they have hopes and why you cannot peg it all on the buyer.
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        • Profile picture of the author bocephus
          Interesting discussion.

          Just an observation... The other day, when this forum was "on the fritz", I was over at Yahoo and saw a thread forming about the Warrior Forum being down. Every single post was someone bitching because they weren't making any money because the forum was down.

          There's really no denying that there are a pile of folks on this very forum trying to make a buck teaching others how to make it in IM or by selling something that supposedly makes it easier to pile up the cash.

          Then when you see an "Xfactor" or "Clickbump" type post go viral with one doe-eyed poster after another barraging them with questions as if they somehow magically have all the answers, you get a sense for the desperation (or laziness?). What happens next? Why, an eBook and "Pay to Play" forum, of course.

          Frankly, a great many posts on here read like a commercial. When I see a "7 Things Newbies Need to..." type post I now figure it's just another post by someone trying to peddle whatever gibberish they have in their signature.

          So Steven... I really do believe that you are a guy who has worked hard to get where you are and that you offer a product that has value to those who use it. Repeat customers are the only review you need. I say "Good for you", no harm in that. No harm in any of it really.

          But "The Truth about Making Money Online" is probably that a great way to make money online is to teach others how to make money online.

          I agree with Steven. There are just too many lazy individuals with more money than determination out there looking for the quick and easy answers. When they arrive here, they are met with every opportunity to spend that money on products... some crap, some good. What they all fail to realize is that a bit of intelligent searching and a few well-formed questions will provide far more than any one eBook. If they are incapable of doing the work it takes to learn some of this stuff, then the chances that they are capable of doing the work it takes to make any of the hundreds of "systems" out there work are slim to none. So they drain their accounts, gripe about how terrible the systems are, accuse the seller of making false claims, and move on... and if you are savvy enough to get them to spend more of their money on your products... more power to you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Brian and Mike:

            Hard to know how to respond to both your posts.

            I guess I come from a different world than the two of you. I was brought up
            that you get nothing for nothing, that it takes hard work and education to
            make it in this world and if somebody tries to sell you a bill of goods, be
            very skeptical.

            When I first got into IM, seeing those sales pages for the first time, my
            first reaction was, "Yeah, right."

            So yes, I guess I am asking human nature, or what seems to be how these
            people are brought up, to change.

            Until it does, yes, you're right.

            People will sell the dream and fools will believe it.

            As for Bernie Madoff, not the same thing. He sold investments, not
            IM make money books. This was outright fraud or what would be the
            equivalent of somebody selling a 197 page ebook on copywriting and
            when the person opens it, it's 197 blank pages.

            It's not the same thing as info that the buyer perceives as being
            worthless, which is a totally different subject because worthless is in the
            eye of the beholder and I don't want to open up that can of worms in
            this thread because we've been all through it in many other threads.

            So realizing that we're not going to agree on this, I'm just going to bow
            out of this thread now. It's pointless for me to keep making the same
            point over and over which is simple...people need to take responsibility for
            their own lives and use some common sense.

            But as you pointed out, people just don't do that.

            So point taken.

            Enjoy the rest of this thread.
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            • Profile picture of the author Zanti
              You know Steven, I've tried repeatedly to point out that I'm not in total disagreement with you. Not sure what the different world is that you don't think I also don't come from.

              I learned at a very young age, that one has to take responsibility for one's actions and be responsible for one's choices. Blame does not fall outside of one's self.

              I grew up with a grandfather who had one of the largest farms in N.E. Mississippi, not a small feat for a black man in Mississippi in the 1920's. He had a newspaper article written about him in the largest newspaper in Mississippi in the 1920's, at a time when black men did not make the front page of any paper about something that was positive.

              I had 10 aunts and uncles who each went to private school and each received a college education. Again, no small feat for black men and women in the 1950's.

              My father had his own business and I started working there at the age of 11.

              So in my world as I assume it is in yours, it's about taking personal responsibility and being accountable for our actions. So, yes I was brought up based on what you said, the same why that you were.

              I have two college degrees, a certificate from Harvard Univ. Kennedy School of Government - Executive Leadership Fellowship, and many other certificates and awards, former aide to a U.S. Senator and former Regional Director of the largest management and technical assistance consulting provider in my state. So I am very familiar with hard work and education and the role it plays.

              Both Mike and myself, (not to speak for Mike) it seems to me are in agreement with you, we just aren't saying that the problem only rest with the buyer alone.

              Brian
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

                You know Steven, I've tried repeatedly to point out that I'm not in total disagreement with you. Not sure what the different world is that you don't think I also don't come from.
                Totally mystified as to where that came from myself. Makes no sense to think that because you think that buyers AND sellers should take responsibility that you are not from the same world. Unless of course if the world is not Earth.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Brian and Mike:

              Hard to know how to respond to both your posts.

              I guess I come from a different world than the two of you. I was brought up that you get nothing for nothing, that it takes hard work and education to make it in this world and if somebody tries to sell you a bill of goods, be
              very skeptical.
              Steve give us a break. Flim flam conmen and snake oil salesmen promising the sky and delivering zilch have been around for centuries in this world. Same world you live in. I don't really need a lecture about how you were brought up differently as I was brought up the same way and know perfectly well that such things have been with us forever and have never been just the buyers fault. You missed where I haven't bought any of them either so the different world thing is curious. We've had laws in the books for decades and more that pertain to the sellers of these things. Every generation has had some people succumb to them and some were brought up every bit as good as you and I and better.

              the "these people" generalization just attempts to stroke everyone with the same brush. You don't have to be from another world to claim that sellers have a responsibility not to sell foolishness just as buyers have a responsibility to use common sense. That line is just way off base. Same world.

              As for Bernie Madoff, not the same thing. He sold investments, not
              IM make money books. This was outright fraud or what would be the
              equivalent of somebody selling a 197 page ebook on copywriting and
              when the person opens it, it's 197 blank pages.
              Same basic thing. they believed in the fast return and the low risk (As in no pain and mucho gain that IM sellers sell). Its just played out on a different field. The distinction is without merit. Sophisticated people who should have known something was too good to be true were conned by the mystique of his abilities. It has a great parallel to what happens to people who are fed the guru status of this or that Imer. Its the emperor with new clothes complex thats been with us for quite some time before any of us were born.


              which is simple...people need to take responsibility for
              their own lives and use some common sense.
              No one said anything different. As far as I can tell the only disagreement is that you feel the responsibility to rectify the situations lays solely with the buyer where as others rightfully and logically see the responsibility being on both the seller and the buyers. Furthermore The US government and in particular the FTC are in the same world that see the seller as having some responsibility.

              So if perhaps I am from another world its the same world the US government is in and abides by. I can live with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    Both thesuccesscoach and Steven have excellent points in this thread, for different reasons.

    There's always going to be some sleazy conmen out there, but I think most of the time, many IM products suck because the marketers selling them can't teach for beans. Then, you can take the best IM products in the world, and the vast majority of buyers STILL won't have made any money, because the customers bought them but didn't do a damn thing. Unless someone's telling you that you can just put in one or two hours a day to immediately make six figures (one sales page even claimed "In fact, it's BETTER if you're unmotivated" - WTF is that even supposed to mean), most systems are "doable", regardless of how well the writer teaches it.

    Moreover, what constitutes a "good" product is subjective. No two buyers will have the exact same skills, experience, drive or resources. One buyer will say Product X is crap, while another will say that Product X just made them their first dollar, while another buyer will say it's crap without even bothering to prove otherwise - they'll just sit there and judge while looking for the Next Greatest Thing.

    I'm too lazy to go find the original thread, but in a discussion awhile back somebody mentioned THIS mantra to keep in mind while buying WSOs (or any product for that matter): "I Understand That I Am An Adult." Many customers really need to meditate on this one.

    Sure you can spend money on the perfect list building system/program/course however if you don't do anything with it - it's useless.

    Even if you do something with it if you have no traffic strategy it's useless
    Even if you have a traffic strategy it's useless unless you have a product to offer
    Even if you have a product to offer what's the use unless you provide something useful
    Even if you have a useful product what's the point if you don't have a good follow up sequence....

    You get where I am going here?

    Too many people buy this and that and the other, heck I'll put up my hand and say i've done it too many times!, but they have no plan, no idea what they are doing, no business model or plan so what happens? Their house of cards business falls apart and they never make money...

    1) stop spending money
    2) take stock of what you know and have
    3) see what you could provide
    4) draw up a business plan - set your goals
    5) realise this is a business and work your plan
    6) constantly refocus and re set your goals
    Unethical marketers aside, this is the part of the post people need to focus on. I bought into Maverick Money Makers for crying out loud - one of the crappiest programs you can get - but still took action and, yes, made some money. Did I get starry-eyed and go on an IM-product binge? Sure... that's where I stopped for a long time. But no more. Once I took action again, I made money again.

    That said, that's where Steven comes in. It's not the seller - it's the BUYER'S responsibility if the BUYER wants to make money. Instead, there's always the excuse that the seller just didn't put out a good enough product.

    Now, this isn't to say that a snake-oil salesman's system is even feasible. You still have to do your due diligence when it comes to sellers. There's also human instinct - if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    People want to be spoon fed.

    If I tell you that if you pick up XYZ package of mine and it can make you
    $2,500 a month, please don't fricken ask me what you have to do in
    order to make that money because that tells me you're a lazy SOB and I
    don't want you even buying my product.

    People need to get their heads out of the lottery mentality and realize
    that everything in life takes work.
    Business goes both ways: while there's no income ceiling, there's no income floor either. Many people turn wheels and give up because they went negative before they got started.

    You have to find What Works For YOU. No seller can guarantee that - they don't know you, they don't know your assets, your resources, your strengths and weaknesses.

    Last but not least, I actually really, really, really HATE the phrase "make money online". To me, it implies making money through an intangible means while sitting at home. This is also where people get caught up in that lottery mentality. Internet marketing requires running a business, which isn't some fly-by-night scheme. Are you here to make money online, or are you here to Build a Business?
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  • Profile picture of the author RCormacko
    You expected this to stir some thing up a bit and it has, nice! I certainly agree, chasing some magic bullet is the road to nowhere. People need to stick with what they are doing. The main problem is that being in this industry inevitably means your email is going to appear on many lists. Emails are going to arrive into your inbox promising you the moon on a stick. Some will be difficult to ignore. However, noobs need to ignore the latest thing and stick at one method, whatever it is. It is not rocket science to make a site, get traffic via article marketing, make sales. Just do it! It takes effort, but so does everything that is worth doing. The biggest problem is the follow-up from the sign ups that are good. For example, you sign up to Affilorama (Mark Ling). You cannot fault the material, everything is there for you to be successful. Even Mark himself tells you, "Don't get distracted and go off signing up for every course under the sun". And then what happens? You get emails from "Mark Ling", "Affilorama" or "Traffic Travis" telling you to sign up for the next big thing. Take the original advice and don't get distracted. Once you are successful, try new things, but not until you have already seen one good method through til the end. And don't even think about clicking on that link in my signature if you are already half way through a course!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    Mike, I concur fully with your statements.

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    LOL, Mike, I don't know. Same with the Bernie stuff, which by the way I thought you explained very well. I like the world I'm a part of.

    In Gratitude and Success,

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    I want to thank everyone for the great discussion points that came up. For me the important things are:
    1) Everyone agree's there's no majic (can never spell that work) bullet
    2) There are tools to make life easier, however they are not the answer
    3) A plan is needed
    4) Determination is needed
    5) Sticking it out is needed
    6) Help from friends in the warriorforum is quite a bonus

    On another note, I don't think there are any stupid people in internet marketing, just people who have the wrong mindset. I'm sure we've all fallen for the work 2 hours and make 2k type scenarios, back in the early 90s I know I did. We've all fallen for one or two sales letters, I know I did. But as we get wiser we know we have to treat our business as a business and a hobby.

    And any help we can give people in here is important

    R
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    well i kind of agree and kind of disagree. Worknig "hard" isn't the answer. You have to work "smart" and I am not talking about "writing better articles, getting higher PR backlinks, using Twitter," etc

    It all starts with the products...they way you market and how you do it. I see some people working like slaves here for a wage. Why did you quot your job?

    I guess it takes a lot of time and finding out what doesn't work until you snag the winning formula. Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    too much guiness? (magic)


    1
    ) Everyone agree's there's no majic (can never spell that work) bullet
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    • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      too much guiness? (magic)


      1
      you mean guinness!
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  • Profile picture of the author PascalSundhar
    Thanks for giving your valuable insights on Make money online from your years of experience. Everyone should know this.
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  • Profile picture of the author mistermint
    Interesting thread!

    As others mention; most people are looking for a magic bullet for under $47 not $49.99 but, anything with a 7 at the end.

    What most new IM's think; You can make trillions on line in a very short time because, many "Gurus" made a killing in the good old days of spend spend spend.

    I have bought way more than my fair share of rubbish which, simply put didn't work even, I put my heart and soul in to trying to make them work...why? there was always a piece of the jig saw missing.

    Had told plenty of people to get off the mailing lists because, the constant offers just distract you and cause you to waste a tonne of time and money.

    Quickly I realised I was going around in a circle a real junkie at one point I almost bought something I alread bought....I was looking at around 150 domains most of which didn't perform...again I had gone off on the wrong foot.I'm not alone in making mistakes so I'm not shy to let the truth out..

    What I did next was this..

    1. Got off those lists which distracted me but, stayed with a couple of people I thought were genuine.

    2. Started to weed out all the silly domain names many which had hyphens..or .info extns ( I know some people do OK with them but not me) and those with no proper keywords in them.

    3. This is the key for me:

    I followed my own instincts and gut feelings based on solid research.

    Built simple blogs which hit googles page 1 within 7 days for the keywords I chose.

    4. Stopped trying to bypass google with too much automation.

    5. Looked for untapped or little known or less often used traffic methods.

    6. Test and track, test and track then test and track some more..

    There are a couple of expressions I picked up along the way and one in particular stuck in my thick head..

    1. An idiot with a plan will beat a smart person with no plan every time.

    Finally, sorry about all I's and the ramble,

    Cheers,

    Gordon.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by mistermint View Post

      Interesting thread!

      As others mention; most people are looking for a magic bullet for under $47 not $49.99 but, anything with a 7 at the end.

      What most new IM's think; You can make trillions on line in a very short time because, many "Gurus" made a killing in the good old days of spend spend spend.

      I have bought way more than my fair share of rubbish which, simply put didn't work even, I put my heart and soul in to trying to make them work...why? there was always a piece of the jig saw missing.

      Had told plenty of people to get off the mailing lists because, the constant offers just distract you and cause you to waste a tonne of time and money.

      Quickly I realised I was going around in a circle a real junkie at one point I almost bought something I alread bought....I was looking at around 150 domains most of which didn't perform...again I had gone off on the wrong foot.I'm not alone in making mistakes so I'm not shy to let the truth out..

      What I did next was this..

      1. Got off those lists which distracted me but, stayed with a couple of people I thought were genuine.

      2. Started to weed out all the silly domain names many which had hyphens..or .info extns ( I know some people do OK with them but not me) and those with no proper keywords in them.

      3. This is the key for me:

      I followed my own instincts and gut feelings based on solid research.

      Built simple blogs which hit googles page 1 within 7 days for the keywords I chose.

      4. Stopped trying to bypass google with too much automation.

      5. Looked for untapped or little known or less often used traffic methods.

      6. Test and track, test and track then test and track some more..

      There are a couple of expressions I picked up along the way and one in particular stuck in my thick head..

      1. An idiot with a plan will beat a smart person with no plan every time.

      Finally, sorry about all I's and the ramble,

      Cheers,

      Gordon.
      "An idiot with a plan will beat a smart person with no plan every time."

      I've been contemplating this line for a bit.....

      I realize the importance of having a plan, but, with being a U.S. Army officer, I've seen some soldiers, with a great plan handed right to them, completely screw everything up.

      lol...so, I don't think just "having a plan" is the 'end-all-be-all'....
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  • Profile picture of the author Micheal307
    Thank you for sharing this! It really helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author crosslawz
    Hi,my fellow war members, i'm a newbie at the moment and i wish to introduce my self first before replying to this post. My name is Orah Johnson, but many call me by my stage name noblesoldier. When it comes to online i am an infopreneur, i sell valuable infoproduct/ebooks at affordable rate, though it has not been long i embarked on this information marketing but from my experience so far the truth about making money online is quite not an easy road, you all know that rome was not build in a day. First, one needs to be guilded by an expert for one not to fall victim of scam. To my fellow marketers/infopreneur, believe me it will do you no good to sell something worthless, something you know the buyer won't benefit from, for you are driving your customers away. I will advise you guys to be Godly and you will make it. For it is written: hard work can make you no richer but the Lord's blessing maket a man wealthy. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Very well put SuccessCoach !!! There are no magic buttons. If I create one that works, I will sell it in the WSO.

    I have been successful online since 2007. It has taken hours and hours of watching webinars and reading e-books. Also surrounding myself with other Internet Entrepreneurs.
    Of course, you must have a quality product to sell that is in high demand.
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  • Profile picture of the author jonbeebe
    While there are A LOT of scams there are also A LOT of legitimate products. I think the problem is that most people aren't willing to stick with any ONE thing for a period of time to see anything come from it.

    And then when that happens...

    ...The blame goes all over the place except for themselves. Pick something, and stick with it.

    For the record, I recommend building an email list within a niche you are passionate about and earning their trust over a period of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author dizen
    This is what I hate from marketers preying newbies, I mean why do they do that? Folks don't give people empty promises.

    I am beginning to see money, not much, only $ 3000/Mo from adsense and Amazon but it's climbing every month.

    During the last 7 months I bought dozens of WSOs here , put them into action ... well 95 % of those WSOs don't work as advertised .. there is always something missing with each of the WSOs. There is always something missing , the puzzle really confused me.

    Maybe they hide the details to protect their litle gold mine? I have no idea . I am beginning to see money by adding my own twist, I created my own method after a lot of trial and errors .

    IM is not hard, the hard part is to find/create your own solid method, after you found it then it became boring, automatic and repetitive.

    To newbies, don't expect you will make money quick after reading 1 wso offered here.Usually you won't . there are people who are lucky to hit it on the first attempt but most of you won't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Jensen
      Originally Posted by dizen View Post

      This is what I hate from marketers preying newbies, I mean why do they do that? Folks don't give people empty promises.

      I am beginning to see money, not much, only $ 3000/Mo from adsense and Amazon but it's climbing every month.

      During the last 7 months I bought dozens of WSOs here , put them into action ... well 95 % of those WSOs don't work as advertised .. there is always something missing with each of the WSOs. There is always something missing , the puzzle really confused me.

      Maybe they hide the details to protect their litle gold mine? I have no idea . I am beginning to see money by adding my own twist, I created my own method after a lot of trial and errors .

      IM is not hard, the hard part is to find/create your own solid method, after you found it then it became boring, automatic and repetitive.

      To newbies, don't expect you will make money quick after reading 1 wso offered here.Usually you won't . there are people who are lucky to hit it on the first attempt but most of you won't.

      You're seeing $3,000 per month in income. Congratulations!!! The hardest barrier I ever hit was making $100 per day consistently. It didn't seem too long after that I was hitting $300 per day.
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  • Profile picture of the author nuz
    @Zanti,

    loved the Bernie Madoff comparison because whether Steve realized it or not he was starting to sound "biased".

    As someone who has purchased many products I will add that it is not about being "stupid" when you by into the sales letter nor is it always about getting "rich quick".

    I have been pursuing this since February '08 and I am still struggling as I finally found someone who taught all the steps that is needed. I was not expecting to make money fast (obviously since I'm still pursuing it) but these sellers make it seem like if you purchase their product for $197, you will learn everything you need to know for that price.

    Then after you buy it, you realize that you also have to, or should buy some backlinking software, or outsource some article writing, pay an autoresponder monthly pay for ppc and pay for whatever extras that were not mentioned in the sales copy.

    That doesn't make you stupid when you are just starting and don't know that you need all of these.

    Is a child stupid when they ask what's one plus one? No!

    You don't know what you don't know!
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  • Profile picture of the author Doolder
    I am beginning to see money, not much, only $ 3000/Mo from adsense and Amazon but it's climbing every month
    Not much? That's more than what make 95% of all warriors if you ask me. I might be wrong about that but I think $3,000/month is a pretty solid result. Now you just have to scale up and you'll make $10,000/month in no time at all...
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