Bizarre WSO Titles: Marketing Genius? or Unfair Competition?

by 185 replies
219
....I really think I stumbled on a question here that could spur some serious debate.....

Unless I purchase a certain WSO, there's no way that I can tell if the product provides the information and support required to achieve the results that any WSO-runner claims....so, I am not pin-pointing any one particular WSO. I've been around here for a bit, and have seen some immensely popular WSOs, and, then, some that just fall by the wayside for one reason or another (bad sales copy? a bad offer? etc....)

It does 'seem' like some of the most successful WSOs are the ones that include something along the lines of "How I earn $10,000+/day...and how you can too...."....and these type of WSOs usually promise to reveal all their secrets for a mere $7....

Are these types of WSO's marketing genius? or do they create unfair competition for WSOs that don't make quite the same claims?....Let's face it, for a newbie visiting the WSO forum, who is contemplating posting a WSO, it REALLY can be a bit intimidating....and, if your methods and strategies, revealed in your product, would "only" bring someone in $500/month, those WSOs appear like they would be dead in the water against WSOs with headlines like "$10,000 in a day...."

What do YOU think? Marketing Genius? or Unfair Competition? Have you had experience on either end of this debate?...
#main internet marketing discussion forum #bizarre #competition #genius #marketing #titles #unfair #wso
  • [DELETED]
  • I Strongly recommend against purchasing any WSO that makes income claims. Any income claims.

    First, they're all lies, even if the creator and some customers achieved the stated returns. They have no way of knowing what anyone else will achieve, if anything at all. Second, while not all of those are pure scams, virtually all the scams use those kinds of subject lines. And the offers that promise refunds if they fail to get you those levels are also the most likely to change the rules and not deliver on requested refunds when they bomb.

    I'm going to start cleaning house in there very soon. As in, as soon as the forum stabilizes. Lots of stuff is going away.


    Paul
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
    • [3] replies
    • Can I make a personal request?

      A lot of people I know have been asking me whether things are okay to do in a WSO. I look at the rules and say "there's no rule against it, but if you're worried, check with the mods; open a help desk ticket." If they do, the answer is always "no."

      So when things stabilise... could we maybe update the written rules on WSOs? Everything is really scattered right now, it's hard to figure things out, and even when there's no rule against something - that doesn't mean it's allowed. The ban hammer has been dropping on some really good people lately, and they really didn't mean to break any rules, but it's just impossible to know all of them.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • Thank you (I'd give a thanks, but my button is MIA)
    • Oh please Mr Myers, if I can no longer sell my how will I ever pay next month's rent in my boarding house? I'll be back living in the garbage dumpster.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • I can almost guarantee the people with the big headlines ($10,000 per day) don't build much of a long-term relationship with their customers. Because once people buy their wso and find out it's a fraud they aren't going to buy anything again. But you have to admit, those people that are selling their wso for $7 on "How to Make $10,000 Per Day" are very generous. :rolleyes:
    • [2] replies
    • I know I am probably rubbing a few people the wrong way with this post, but, isn't it the best interest of the entire community to safeguard the way WSOs are perceived?

      ....once again, I'm not saying that those "$10,000/day" WSOs don't work, but, to an outsider, it's difficult to NOT perceive the WSO forum as just a place where people make incredibly hyped up claims, tagged along with a nearly unreasonable price point.....

      $7 is great....but, do these people value their methods and strategies so little that they would resort to selling their product for $7? And...then, I have become so accustomed to hearing "well, we had just wanted to give other Warriors a chance to get in at a low price"

      Come on...I don't mean to be a jerk here....but, if you have developed methods and strategies that could really earn someone $3,650,000/year ($10,000 per day x 365 days)....shouldn't you be attaching at least a $1,000+ price tag to it....

      Based on those claims, especially if they are truly effective, your WSO SHOULD be in the vicinity of maybe $700 or $800 (compared to the $1,000 you would charge any one else, per the WSO rules).
    • Honestly, those who engage in this type of marketing, I am sure, do really quite well over in the WSO forum. That is good for them, however, I'm not sure that it leaves the best 'image' of Warrior Forum.

      There is clearly a technique at play here....and elaborate marketing strategy.....provide significantly hyped up sales claims, and sell the product for $7 because you KNOW the buyer will end up saying "Well, it was ONLY $7...it's not even worth asking for a refund...."

      Some marketers are banking on that. Ingenious in a sense...but, I do think it doesn't exactly create the greatest image for Warrior Forum if people are constantly made to feel like they are being scammed.
  • Wow Paul. Please tell us more. What is going on? What do you mean by 'when the forum stabilizes'? Is this why the forum has been unavailable a few days ago and earlier today. I was wondering what was going on. And I see the search function has gone away.

    Inquiring minds want to know. But I am not expecting an answer as this is probably confidential information.
    • [1] reply
    • Tim,

      This has nothing to do with the forum being down, except that it has to wait until the stuff that's causing that to be fixed.

      No big secret. We're just going to enforce Rule #7 of the WSO section a bit more... proactively.


      Paul
  • Banned
    I know a lot of people think that anything that sells is marketing genius ... you know, like making false claims, posting false testimonials, posting fake profit screenshots, wild income promises ...

    A lie is a lie and to call it marketing genius is an abuse of the term genius.
    • [1] reply
    • Maybe I'm just naive (or maybe it's that integrity that always harrases me...lol)...

      but....

      Do you think there are some people who DO post fake profit screenshots, for their WSOs?

      If so...that's pretty LOW....
      • [3] replies
  • I agree with Paul.

    I've never seen a monetary claim that can live up to its hype and I would advise people not to buy any WSO that makes such a claim.

    It's the easy option for lazy people who want desperate people to buy.

    People know that such claims are not likely to be true but they can't help themselves, so there will always be other members ready to take advantage of that.
  • It's really not any different than any other form of marketing. Most of the TV ads, newspaper ads, and every other ad you see has a headline that quite often is unbelievable. I pretty much ignore the headlines and try to "read between the lines". Even better, I like (and use) the advice already given - stay around long enough to get to know some of the people, who you can trust and who to avoid.
  • The WSO section is really The Matrix, and all tangible forms of income in all of the world are simply a metaphor for something that really happens in the WSO forum.

    The WSO section is The Borg.

    The WSO section is the Alpha and the Omega.

    All Hail The WSO Section!
    • [1] reply
    • Now, now, Michael. It's only "all that" for people who don't listen when we tell them not to make that a big part of their income.

      Apparently, there are quite a few such people...


      Paul
  • Hey

    Well, the make money online market is MASSIVE and hype does sell like nothing else. Not that the programs don't work, but they work equally good in terms of selling a lot of copies to hungry customers.

    It's marketing at it's best, really.

    Any questions just let me know

    Nick
  • This is a good thread.

    ...I can only add that I would also look at peoples longer term success and are they making money outside selling how to make money. This is a easier niche then many others to make money in, but I suggest to learn from someone who is making money outside the IM niche.

    Cheers,
    Mukul
  • Thanks for posting this. I actually bought my first WSO last night and was incredibly disappointed. The author did a good job creating curiosity and interest but failed to deliver in my opinion anything worth the $27 buck she asked for it. Interestingly it also starts with "How I make XXX dollars per day" Powerful headline and if there were follow through on it - like a specific plan - I would have liked it. As it is now, I stand as a person who feels taken advantage of. I have asked for a refund. If that doesn't show up, I will take the issue to paypal and file and official complaint. The sales copy is misleading.
    • [1] reply
    • Providing the WSO guidelines are met, I don't believe any title creates unfair competition. If bizarre works, then good on them. Your title is what gets attention and eyeballs so being creative is a good thing there. Obviously, lies don't fall under the "creative" umbrella, in my opinion.

      Tina
      • [1] reply
  • Paul,

    I understand your condo, located in Area 51, is up for lease at the present time. I will market it for you in the WSO section, for the small fee of only $1000.00 per day, with a kick back to you of $7.00 per month.

    HEADLINE:



    Yours For Only $499.00 A Day

    [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Ken/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.jpg[/IMG]
  • Paul,

    I'd buy you a beer, but I think you've had enough!

    I salute you for taking the reins on this one, but I think you'll need a bulldozer.

    Really... Thank You!

    Dennis Wagoner
  • [DELETED]
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I had just a read a post, in a different thread (would have to go find it) that gave basically a historical context to WSOs, and what they were meant to be used for. I have no reason to believe that what that poster had written was inaccurate....they basically said that WSOs were a means for Warriors to give other members really good deals....

      That poster had made WSOs sound they have always traditionally had a very strong community aspect to them. In that sense, I agree with what you have proposed Paul....

      Maybe...perhaps....although it might rub some people the wrong way (like you had said), a consideration may be to have those who post WSOs be ONLY those who have a minimal time requirement as a member, with a certain designation of posts....

      Anyone could elevate their own posts rather quickly....whether they pay others to do so....or just write one-lines, so, a time-requirement may not be such a bad idea, either....

      I think this may at least help a bit with ensuring quality and the best interest of the community in any 'special offers'. It's hard not to question the motives of someone who purchases a War Room membership then, soon after, begins a WSO....

      Of course...I could be way off....I tend to agree with what you wrote though, Paul....just my thoughts....
      • [1] reply
    • The minimum posts is a good idea, but might contribute to lots of trash posts in order to get to 500. Time at the forum would work
      the best because it can't be rushed. Most of the really bad WSOs
      I've bought were from people with low post counts and a short membership here as well. I've been pretty adamant about getting my refunds if the WSO doesn't live up to the sales page, it's not the money, it's the principle.
      Stef

  • Hey,

    If the Warrior Forum wants to cleanup house, that's cool with me! However, this should be fair and apply to ALL Warriors with zero favoritism. If your Ad-copy is making income earning claims or general claims, then they should all be moderated approved before submitted.

    That being said, I feel that the WSO fee should be increased immensely to not only pay for proper staff to approve the WSO's, but to enforce that the author has the $ to invest in advertising their Special Offer. This will ensure the WSO area isn't constantly flooded with that "scammy" vibe and instill a trusting user-base that when they click the "Buy Now" button for a WSO, they know they are purchasing a quality product.... that follows the rules in a valuable manner.

    Profit-Smart put it best....."If your product delivers, what it says it delivers; Then your customers do the selling for you".
    • [1] reply
    • LaRocca,If you can find any evidence of favoritism in how I'm applying the rules, feel free to point it out. Publicly.

      As far as raising the pricing... I'm not sure that would make any difference at all.I definitely do not think it's a good idea to get to the point where it looks like anything there is WF approved. That would require extremely experienced people to spend full time reviewing every offer. There aren't any of us that know every area of the business well enough to get that right every time. And those of us with enough experience to do it at all would be losing money compared to other things we could do with that time.

      Paul,

      I'd love that set of standards. Not likely to happen, but I'd love them. I'm not sure they'd make a difference, though.


      Paul
  • If it promises big results for a low price, it mostly likely sucks. I've read a lot of WSO's, and almost all of them were rehashed information you find for free right here and on other forums. WSO's can be helpful for a complete beginner because it's all the information in one place with a step by step plan making it easy to follow, but for anyone whose spent some time reading the forums they are usually a waste of money.
    • [2] replies
    • No offence to anyone here, but if I REALLY had a method (I wish I did...) that earned as much as some of those WSOs claim, in a day, there's not a chance in the world I'd be selling it for $7.....

      Maybe a $2,000 price tag with a $1,500 or so WSO price tag.....
    • I've read a lot of books, and almost all of them were rehashed information you find for free on the internet and in public libraries.

      I guess they're okay for newbies, though.
  • Marketing Geniuses, NO! Allota Hype, Yes!

    Lets face it! If the warriors who launch WSO's promising 10,000/Day were really doing it, I doubt theyd be hanging around the Warrior Special Offers Section selling thier secrets for a measly 7, 17, or even 27 bucks.

    They would be too busy doing seminars and focusing on where their money is really coming from.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • The title of your WSO, besides the actual sales copy and product,
    is the most important thing.

    You need to pick a throught grabbing headline.

    Thats what will get you the traffic more than the next guy.

    So in my opinion, its pure genius.
  • My view,

    In some ways I believe the WSO section to be a victim of its own success. You get guranteed laser targeted traffic along with a baying hungry mob. This will inevtibaly attract undesirables who will believe that all they have to do is get the sales copy right and their laughing all the way to the bank regardless of what their selling.

    Yes there does need to be control and policing of the WSO section but at what cost. We cannot reasonably expect mods to scrutinise the content of every offer because as Jeremey I believe pointed out the potential income claims on some may be factual.

    This then brings us to bringing WSO's into line with current rules and regulations ie FTC. If you are making outlandish guarantees and there is a string of people who cannot get refunds then you should be brought into check, likewise as Paul mentioned with offers or software that violate TOS of other sites, once we start at this basic level then this should begin to remove at least some of the rogue elements.

    Now my most important point. I think the biggest onus falls on the buyer to apply common sense, due dilligence as well as some sort of restraint, because as you may or may not know there are bad people out there who may want to take your money and run.
    • [1] reply
    • Dave D, FTW!
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [3] replies
  • I think that in the end, its the buyer's responsibility. The buyer could have easily checked:

    -reviews
    -refunds
    -complaints
    -more information (or lack of )
    -seller's history on WF

    All that with just a few mouse scrolls and clicks. Alright, you might argue newbies wouldn't know better. Recall when YOU WERE A NEWBIE. Imagine that the WSO Forum suddenly was revamped in such a way that you could tell which wso was for newbie and which was for advanced members. You would think that newbies would go for newbie products but think again. If you were a little kid and I offered you a choice of a candy stick and a candy store. Which one would you go for?

    Besides, if you aren't sure about that WSO but you want it that badly...just wait it out until there're reviews. There are always reviews for GOOD WSOs. It's a fact. If there're no reviews and you are still tempted..well, move along and actually do something. There isn't only one way to make money online.
  • FTW = For the win!
  • Its pretty simple to make a forum invisible unless your logged in, so wouldnt be difficult to make it warrior only accessible
    • [2] replies
    • Caliban,

      The instant we try to write down "all" the rules, we create a whole new class of cretin: The list-lawyer. It is not possible to foresee every situation, and the more you try, the more problems you generate.

      Eventually, you end up with something as opaque as most contracts, and even LegalMan can't translate it dependably.

      Life is a mix of soft ambiguity and hard edges. Any attempt to change that only serves to further emphasize it.


      Paul
    • (DISCLAIMER: It's hard to be helpful about rules and regulations, without sounding like you're trying to tell people how to keep their own house. That's not my intent. If my suggestions and ideas are helpful, great. If they're not, that's okay too. I'm not trying to rant and rave and start a movement or anything. After all, if I feel that strongly about this, I can go start my own damn forum - right? )

      That's one of the changes I've been thinking about. But I'd prefer we remove only the ability to click links, so those who want to browse WSOs anonymously (= most of the big names, from my experience) can continue to do so, and those who use Google bookmarks to find WSOs can continue to do so. Works better from a "big picture" perspective.

      On the other hand, a lot of people might say "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and come down on the side of just adding a "Rule 0" that says "Your WSO can be seen and purchased by anyone, not just Warriors" so people have the information and can make a more informed decision. And I support that, too.

      A third option - and, honestly, the one I most prefer - is simply removing any requirement for the WSO price to have any particular position in the grand scheme of things. Let people price their WSOs however they want. If they want to come in here and tell Warriors "buy my product at double the usual price," let them. The smart Warriors will check for a better deal, as they should, and - out of concern and camaraderie - tell their fellow Warriors all about that better deal. We don't need this rule, because the community will enforce it to their own standards without staff involvement. Which means as those standards evolve, so too will the enforcement.

      But I'm not in charge, and there could be any number of Very Good Reasons not to do these things which only the admin and staff here know. And they don't have to tell me (or, indeed, anybody) if they don't want to. In fact, they can refuse to change the rules simply because they don't want to, and they don't owe me or anyone else an explanation.
      • [2] replies
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
    • [1] reply
  • Banned
    I have a better idea?

    Shut down the WSO Forum for 1 month and let's see if people are going to bitch, cry, whinge etc.

    I would support this 100%

    P.S Then notice the people who "rely on WSO" Income find other ways to make easy money..
  • Banned
    Ummm...what is unfair about it? If my swing technique can add 100 yards to your drive, is it unfair if the next guy's technique only adds 25 yards? Uh...no, it isn't.

    Lying, on the other hand, is a different issue. Unfortunately, lying is perfectly acceptable for WSOs.....just don't mention proxy or back link though, lol.
    • [1] reply
    • Yeah, lying is the issue. Unfortunately, where there is money to made, they'll always be lying...even to the extent of making false claims and posting false/doctored earnings....
      • [1] reply
  • Jeremy: Learn some etiquitte. You earn a customer's trust not burn it. I will give you a hint. I never opted-in, you spammed me from the forum. I am not going to sing "Moon River", as you know it very well. The Forum will live on, will BS spam forum?
    • [2] replies

    • A couple things....

      1. I don't have a forum

      2. If you got an email from me - it was from aweber...double opt-in

      3. After what you have posted here, I don't want your trust, OR to have you as a customer

      4. You ordered our backlink service...CAN ANYONE SAY HYPOCRITE?

      This is the exact email I sent - links removed:

      Hello Everyone,

      You are receiving this email because you joined our list through some
      sort of interaction on the Warrior Forum - whether you signed up for
      a freebie, or joined our list for updates etc...This list is comprised
      mostly of "warriors"...

      Recently, we were told that we can no longer offer our Backlink service
      on the Warrior Forum due to a change in the rules. We weren't the only
      ones either - I'd venture to say that probably 50 or 100 people got
      the same message.

      Well, there are 2 ways that we can handle this.

      1. We can tuck out tales between our legs like most of the others will

      2. We can have a sale

      I think we will go with option #2

      Regardless of what happens, if you are on this list, you will still
      get access to the special pricing that was offered exclusively on the
      WSO...

      BUT

      From now until Sunday night, we are offering a BUY 2 GET 1 FREE SALE..

      So, that means, if you grab 2 of the 2K link packs - You get an extra
      2K for free...This deal can't be beat!

      In the original thread, there have already been numerous people reporting
      huge gains in the search engines, and that isn't a fluke. We've personally
      been using these links for quite a while, and they play a large part
      in the rankings we achieve.

      So, if you need links (who doesn't?)

      Go here:

      *link removed*

      If you order 2 packages, you can either put in the instructions to put
      the extra links into one of the original packages or you can fill out the
      submission form again for a completely different site, and then we
      will take care of the rest.

      Remember, this sale is only good until Sunday night at the latest, and
      we might pull it earlier depending on how many orders come in to make
      sure that we can still meet our advertised turn around time.

      Don and Jeremy

      Now, I would appreciate it if YOU can point out to me exactly where I bashed the warriorforum...

      *******edit********

      I spammed you?

      Here's your opt-in info - Kindly let everyone know that you made a mistake now

      ## This is a confirmation message from your AWeber
      ## account unit name "don-jeremy". The person below was added
      ## to your leads list and emailed message none.

      FORM DATA:
      meta_web_form_id: 1566544725

      meta_split_id:

      listname: don-jeremy

      redirect: http://www.donandjeremy.com/thanks.php

      meta_redirect_onlist: http://www.donandjeremy.com/already.php

      meta_adtracking: blog_form

      meta_message: 1

      meta_required: name,email

      meta_forward_vars:

      meta_tooltip:

      name: Donald Yerke

      email: dyadvisor@ REMOVEDBYJEREMY
      submit: Submit


      Location: http://www.donandjeremy.com/webform.html
      Sent By: IP REMOVED
    • Banned
      Look up spam. The definition doesn't have anything to do with double optin lists and it's obvious that you opted in. Also, as it was mentioned, if you have a problem as a customer with someone, it's between you and them ... not you and US .... and that's Rule #1, not Rule #7.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steve, you are 100% right, but sometimes somebody needs a taste of their own medicine. My apologies to everyone else.
  • Jeremy,

    this is not an attack but I do distinctly remember purchasing one of your WSO's which teaches how to violate the ToS of Ezine Articles.


    Chris
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Well, I"ve admitted that probably 100 times

      I bought a guide from a well respected marketer that told me to open an account at hubpages for each niche I was involved in...that is against their TOS...

      burn em at the stake? lol

      The title to the thread you bought it from said "black-hat article marketer wants to reveal his secrets" - so the fact that the guide violated even a small TOS, shouldn't have been surprising

      Some high flying folks on this forum recommended an article distribution service that I bought through their affiliate link...It just so happens that such services violate the TOS of just about every video site they submit to...

      See where I'm going with this?
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • I'm glad that the WSO forum is getting the cleanup that it deserves... it was once a very great place to pick up some great offers.

    It shifted from: How can I give back to Warriors, to, How much can I get from Warriors?

    It's tempting to pay to post a WSO with the title:

    The ultimate secret to earning 10k each and every month...

    And inside the post:

    Stop buying junk, reading forums and apply some common sense: do some ****ing work... then you might earn some money!
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • "It shifted from: How can I give back to Warriors, to, How much can I get from Warriors?"

      Can't disagree here....Alot of WSOs aren't even "special offers" to begin with, and I have seen some called out on it.....

      And, Warriors, who even appear to be in good-standing with high-post counts have responded with things like "Well, we still have to pay the bills..."

      ....if someone is relying on WF as the sole source of their income, then they have much bigger issues.....

      Me neither....but, these WSOs always seem to get the MOST traction....with the most comments and purchases....

      The unfortunate thing is that, when I read through the comments, there are rarely ever comments that have REAL TANGIBLE results....

      Never once have I read someone posting to one of those $10,000,000/hour threads about how they were actually able to achieve even remotely close to what the WSO says is possible.

      I think if those WSOs could produce real examples of people even doing remotely close to what they claim is possible.....they SHOULD be selling for multiples of $7.....

      Honestly, I would LOVE to see some testimonials of earning $10,000/day, but I just don't see them....that only leads me to believe that their headlines are particularly crafted in order to trigger emotions in order to, in those cases, gauge as much money from Warriors as possible....

      I run for the hills when I see those types of WSOs. It's comforting to know some changes are on the horizon.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • I think that if it's too good to be true, then it probably is. $7 to find out is not a lot of money though. I also think that you will build your reputation with honesty, and integrity. Jim Cockrum is #1 on the top 25 internet marketers and have followed him for a long time. His reputation is impeccable.
    I joined one of Jim's forums and found something that makes me about 8k a month using eBay. It's a bit of work, but he said it would work and it did. Thanks Jim!
    Sometimes you will find things out there that work and sometimes not, but if you don't look, you will never find it. Hope this helps.

    Ed
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Jeremy,Because people want the dream of easy money. That's the biggest reason for most of them. That and the fact that an awful lot of them are scamming the hell out of people with shills and lies.

      Are there solid, legitimate offers in the aggressive group? Hell yes. And they deserve every sale they make. But they are not the majority of that group, which is what I've said right along.It used to be half the reason, the other half being extra sales. And yes, that really was a big thing for a lot of people. You don't know what this place was like 7 and 10 years ago.

      Now, it's a pirannha tank, like I said earlier.

      As far as the CPA stuff, I've stayed away from that for the moment, other than to warn a couple of people about the changed enforcement. I've also had a few people change their copy, when the tools involved could be used either way, but the copy set a BH tone.

      Whatever impression you may have, there's no indiscriminate slash and burn stuff going on.


      Paul
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • Banned
    Paul I applaud your efforts.

    I think the WSO Marketplace will once again be a serious place where people are selling quality products and not just one hit "wonders".

    I will make sure I double check before posting an offer.
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    Bizarre WSO Titles: Marketing Genius? or Unfair Competition?

    ....I really think I stumbled on a question here that could spur some serious debate..... Unless I purchase a certain WSO, there's no way that I can tell if the product provides the information and support required to achieve the results that any WSO-runner claims....so, I am not pin-pointing any one particular WSO. I've been around here for a bit, and have seen some immensely popular WSOs, and, then, some that just fall by the wayside for one reason or another (bad sales copy? a bad offer? etc....)