Frustrated with Philippine outsourcers. Need advice.

96 replies
For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
- I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
- If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
- I thank them and encourage them.
- For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
- I've Paid on time for hours worked.


I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks.

PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
#advice #frustrated #outsourcers #philippine
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post


    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.
    When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      I've found that it's fairly difficult to hire writers from overseas. I'm kind of a stickler for proper grammar/spelling. I just think you're barking up the wrong tree in the Philippines for writers that you'll be happy with, and that will be happy with you. They aren't usually native English speakers and that's hard on them and hard on you. You won't get quality that will entice native speakers so what' the point?

      You'll be better off hiring overseas for more low level work. Ie SEO link generation, etc.

      At least that's been my experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tron2k
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
      That's pretty much it.! Hire your new outsources for small jobs at first to see if the fit the bill before you spend to much 'energy' dealing with some newbie, there all just trying to make money to, some of them are just new. Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ashley C
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
      This is something I agree with...

      If you're going to hire people with imperfect English and for low rates, well, I'm not sure what you can expect apart from mediocre quality at best.

      Have you ever tried any native English writers here on the Warrior Forum? There are some pretty decent ones for particularly low rates.
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      • Profile picture of the author serypeta
        I ended up starting up my own outsourcing company also. Article writers re difficult based on their perception of the english language. they speak it well but given instructions they can be read a bit differently to what we do.

        I find I have some good article writers, some reasonable article writers, and one pretty awesome article writer and next level down.

        i base their work on their ability, so the really good one gets to do clients site and press releases, the rest work more with content on blogs etc where its not quite as important to be perfect.

        I have dealt with home based full time writers and also free lance part time. They do come up with excuses a lot etc.. its finding the right one.. but it is hard to constantly have to sift through so many.

        Using an outsourced company works because as many said before, they are supervised, they are housed, we feed ours, do team building projects etc and ramp up the team spirit to keep the work interesting and fun.

        The work has variety etc, and they get to mix with others and not get too bored.

        pays a little bit more but you get better results.
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    • Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
      I totally disagree with this statement.

      In my business experience, after years of outsourcing and having worked with dozens of people from the Philippines, India, China, and the US too, I absolutely believe that "more expensive" doesn't necessarily equal to "better". I've found guys overseas that for a few hundred bucks they delivered a perfectly adequate job that some other US or UK workers would have charged 3+ times as much for pretty much the same outcome.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        I totally disagree with this statement.

        In my business experience, after years of outsourcing and having worked with dozens of people from the Philippines, India, China, and the US too, I absolutely believe that "more expensive" doesn't necessarily equal to "better". I've found guys overseas that for a few hundred bucks they delivered a perfectly adequate job that some other US or UK workers would have charged 3+ times as much for pretty much the same outcome.
        You sure told them...28 months later.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagalog
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
      That's an unfair reply and obviously through ignorance of the situation in the Philippines.

      I am British and spend a lot of time in the Philippines and believe me, two or three dollars an hour is good money to most Filipinos. The problem lies in the person who runs the business. He or she may take half or more for himself.

      Having said that most Filipinos will work happily for three dollars an hour net and they have very creative minds (due I believe to the lack of expensive toys and gadgets when they are children that resulted in using their imaginations rather than having everything done for them).

      I do agree that it is common for a Filipino to lose interest if the work is not challenging, so perhaps that is the problem with the outsourcing.

      BTW, it is also VERY common to lose internet connections over there due to the worst Internet providers in the world, floods, typhoons (telephone lines are not normally underground so a strong wind can cause havoc). Coughs, flu and a multitude of other illnesses, including lazyitus, can make it incredibly difficult for someone to run an Outsourcing business in the Philippines.

      I once tried to teach my Filipino nephew how to use the Internet and within a week of hard slog, he was down with flu. I found out later he had gone to see his girlfriend in another town. When I pointed out to him that I had given my time freely to help him improve his life, he just shrugged.

      I hope the above helps you to understand life over there a little better.
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  • Profile picture of the author entry
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    You pay for what you get, try the USA or Canada for writers
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    Direct individual hiring usually means they can accept jobs from others too which could compromise their time management and your projects. If you hire from an agency, you can be sure that there is a supervisor looking over their shoulder that's making sure they get the job done.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adam Nolan
      1. Assign simple, small tasks.
      2. Always assume it's your fault for not explaining it properly. These people want to work and are VERY happy to do the work for you.
      3. Make sure they understand the assignment by asking them to paraphrase it back to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
        Originally Posted by Maverick_ View Post

        1. Assign simple, small tasks.
        2. Always assume it's your fault for not explaining it properly. These people want to work and are VERY happy to do the work for you.
        3. Make sure they understand the assignment by asking them to paraphrase it back to you.
        Good points. Here are also some things that I would want to mention as well.

        I understand what you're feeling right now since I've also been to both ups and downs of handing over my business tasks overseas but after learning a few lessons, I thought it's better off to firstly evaluate oneself.

        I believe these people do really show hardwork and loyalty with the job that they're doing, it's just that having the "hourly" basis of receiving the outputs isn't too suitable when you outsource tasks. Well, no matter how easy or difficult the tasks that you give them, we cannot control time. They may not be feeling good at the moment, they may be forced to look onto an accidental situation, etc. and sometimes, electric problems may also happen from time to time in their area (which strikes on hourly basis too).

        Therefore, I would recommend you schedule both the work and the billing full time on a monthly basis so you can ensure they could do follow-ups of things that they missed in a certain time. You could even allow them to exceed hours if they have to especially when meeting the deadlines.

        Alternatively, have them to submit their daily accountability reports to you on a regular basis so you're always aware if there's any problems that they may be facing and that if there's something you could do to help.

        Have their tasks bulleted onto: what they have finished today, are there any problems faced, and what other things should be added to improve the work done, etc. I'm doing this with my Filipino staff as well and with these reports, I can ensure if they're productively finishing the tasks assigned to them or if there are problems that has to be solved.

        I hope this helps and remember, they're humans too and you have to treat them well even if they stay imperfect. There are these things that they may not know and there are these things that they excel a lot. It takes time knowing them and building good relationships and that's the challenge of outsourcing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by Mark Brian View Post

      Direct individual hiring usually means they can accept jobs from others too which could compromise their time management and your projects. If you hire from an agency, you can be sure that there is a supervisor looking over their shoulder that's making sure they get the job done.
      I know this costs more, but should be well worth it until you have a big enough organization to hire your own manager.
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  • Profile picture of the author Flipfilter
    I've found creating videos of you doing a particular task yourself (use jing and screencast.com) is often quicker and easier than trying to explain particular things by email.
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Hey Sorry to hear about your experience.

    However, I think there are several Filipino warriors here
    offering their service.

    Why not try MarxMelencio, Michael Lee, Giansim, or
    AiraBongco.

    Their service seems to get good reviews from some of the
    warriors they've already served here.

    I myself would apply just to let you see that some Filipinos
    can be trusted to deliver for a long time.

    It's just that I'm presently doing my own campaigns.

    Hope you'll find someone to fit your needs soon.

    Best,
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  • Profile picture of the author midasAu
    I disagree that offshore contractors can't write good content. I have hired many writers in the past including some from the US with varying results. The best writer I have ever had is from the Philippines. He sends me work and I can c&p straight onto my site without having to edit...it's great

    I think it is more about how much you are prepared to pay than which county you outsource to...
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    • Profile picture of the author abigailmarketing
      Originally Posted by midasAu View Post

      I disagree that offshore contractors can't write good content. I have hired many writers in the past including some from the US with varying results. The best writer I have ever had is from the Philippines. He sends me work and I can c&p straight onto my site without having to edit...it's great

      I think it is more about how much you are prepared to pay than which county you outsource to...
      I do agree with you. Filipinos are very intelligent. Maybe you need someone to supervise the work in order to make sure that every work will turnout smoothly.
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  • Profile picture of the author imon32red
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.

    I have had similar problems with Virtual Assistants all over the world. Are you hiring an agency or an individual. When I use GAF I research the history of the person bidding on my jobs. A lot of agencies bid for my work and sometimes an individual will bed, but it is clear when you look at their history that it is more than one person.

    I interview repeatedly looking for as many candidates as possible and give them trial assignments. Many people are looking to work today, get paid today and do not want long term employment even if they say that they do. Kind of like day laborers. I had to hire about 6 people before I found one that I liked and was willing to stick around the last time that I hired. She is from the Philippines and does excellent work. I also pay her well too.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
    Banned
    Hi WealthWithin,

    As I always say, outsourcing has always its pros and cons. I always suggest to hire an outsourcing companies instead of a freelancer.

    Outsourcing companies has project manager and shift supervisor to ensure the qualities and productivity of the job. Staff leasing is better than freelance work because leased staff are permanent workers of our company and are easy to reach in case you need them. Freelancers do not have employers so they do as they please and sometimes cannot be contacted for various reasons.

    I have sent you a PM, hope we could help and work something out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marcel Pamphile
      John Reese recommends avoiding outsourcing firms. Hire individuals. The loyalty of the worker is to the firm, not your business.

      The firm could switch your workers without you knowing.


      Originally Posted by jedz View Post

      Hi WealthWithin,

      As I always say, outsourcing has always its pros and cons. I always suggest to hire an outsourcing companies instead of a freelancer.

      Outsourcing companies has project manager and shift supervisor to ensure the qualities and productivity of the job. Staff leasing is better than freelance work because leased staff are permanent workers of our company and are easy to reach in case you need them. Freelancers do not have employers so they do as they please and sometimes cannot be contacted for various reasons.

      I have sent you a PM, hope we could help and work something out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Manfred Ekblad
    Great case..!

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)
    If that was going well, why didn't you simply hire a project manager to handle your tasks?

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.
    When you hire someone on a more full-time basis, you can't just assume that "being sick" is an excuse. If you see a pattern working with that individual, then sure you might suspect it is just an excuse, but you should know that people in other countries have real life problems to deal with (just as you do) and you're probably not their top priority.

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.
    Did you also mention the deadline and what would happen if they didn't reach your target? Did you negotiate for a fixed price or an hour rate? It sounds to me that your tasks were small and easy to define, that's perfect for paying per delivery then, not per hour.

    If I were you, I would find someone who already know what to do, not pay for their training - unless of course you need to train them to follow your "never published before" method to perform your task.

    Why did you raise the hourly rate after 1 week of work? You should try to get as much value for your dollars. I'm not saying you should pay unfair or try to use someone who is in a bad position to negotiate, but unless he performed exceptionally well I don't see why you as the buyer should raise his hour rate.

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.
    I'm 100% sure you will find someone reliable!

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Thanks for mentioning it! My experience is that the further away you are from your work force, the easier it gets to say "my philippino/indian/chinese guys" doesn't perform. Just a note... If your friend got fired because he was sleeping during his work hours, would you even consider the possibility that it was because he was "american/swedish/dutch"?

    PS. If you want to know some more about outsourcing from "the other point of view" feel free to add me on Skype for a chat I've been buying and selling outsourced services for years now and have seen it from both sides. Still doing it!
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    • Profile picture of the author biotechie
      Banned
      The past few months Philippines had encountered several calamities I'm pretty sure it had been broadcast in several countries, odesk had manage to notify their clients about this calamities
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    • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
      Originally Posted by Manfred Ekblad View Post

      If that was going well, why didn't you simply hire a project manager to handle your tasks?
      I think I need to understand how the whole process work, before bringing-in a project manager to handle my work.


      Originally Posted by Manfred Ekblad View Post

      When you hire someone on a more full-time basis, you can't just assume that "being sick" is an excuse. If you see a pattern working with that individual, then sure you might suspect it is just an excuse, but you should know that people in other countries have real life problems to deal with (just as you do) and you're probably not their top priority.
      I'm not saying they're lying. It may well be that all of them actually had personal emergencies for my bad luck.

      Originally Posted by Manfred Ekblad View Post

      Did you also mention the deadline and what would happen if they didn't reach your target? Did you negotiate for a fixed price or an hour rate? It sounds to me that your tasks were small and easy to define, that's perfect for paying per delivery then, not per hour.
      In all of my job descriptions I've stated they should be willing to work at least 20 hours per week. Yet, I've been so flexible and given them more than enough time to complete tasks. Yes, the tasks I've assigned were small tasks - but how can I trust someone with a big task, when I can't get a small task done?

      Small tasks maybe suitable if paid per-delivery. I just want to avoid going back to freelancing sites and posting job descriptions for every task/article to be done.

      Thanks for your reply.
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  • Profile picture of the author lina75
    My view is most of the time you'll get frustrated. Usually they will give their best initially and will slackened later on. Most of the Filipinos have long winded type of writing-(kind of beat around the bush) that is what I found out as I outsource my rewriting too as my English Sucks. No offence to any Filipinos here but they are bettor off doing other stuffs besides writing. You can still get native English speakers that can do the job in odesk as I have found a couple of them but obviously the rate is different unless you don't mind going for college students that needs some extra income.
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  • Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Hmmmn... you may not have the most efficient manpower sourcing, recruitment and testing processes required to hire Filipino content writers?

    Hmmmn... they may not be confident in working with you long term because you don't have a registered business in the country and may suddenly cut them loose when you feel like it?

    Hmmmn... they may be looking for other opportunities which can not only augment the income they get from you but also provide them a long term solution to their finance and career goals?

    Hmmmn... they might think and feel that they'd be better off looking for other opportunities which offer employee benefits, employee insurance, the security of constant long term work with a corporate ladder to climb, a competitive working environment offering life-work balanced systems, tools and resources which can improve them as professionals, their peers and seniors to look up to, rewards/incentives, fast promotions and salary raises for exceptional work, awards and recognition for constant exceptional work, extensive hands-on and on-the-job training sessions, monthly common company and employee goal development sessions, character formation and mindset developmental seminars, etc.?

    Those are 4 hmmmns...

    ...I'd formulate solutions, implement them and study the results I get to improve it further.

    It's constant work = I don't think there's an end-all-be-all solution for a 100% problem-free outsourcing venture, but you could get close to 100% I reckon, anywhere you outsource to, anytime too.

    Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Dang! I think I should start my own outsourcing company and leverage all these publicity
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    • Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Dang! I think I should start my own outsourcing company and leverage all these publicity

      Why not?

      ...that sounds like a plan, or more so: a JV?
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      • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
        Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

        Why not?

        ...that sounds like a plan, or more so: a JV?
        LOL, still busy with my campaigns bro.. I still have a few giant
        projects to take on.

        But when I'm finally done with my line up, I'll be sure to talk to
        you.

        Best,

        Omar
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        • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
          Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

          LOL, still busy with my campaigns bro.. I still have a few giant
          projects to take on.

          But when I'm finally done with my line up, I'll be sure to talk to
          you.

          Best,

          Omar
          talk to me too.
          thanks
          buck
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  • Profile picture of the author axiaersolutions
    I'm myself running an outsourcing company and providing business consultancy and development services.

    I'm sorry but i've to agree with |Loren Woirhaye|
    The guy is totally right, either you can save money or you can get quality work. These are two things you have to chose from.

    We normally charge some extra bucks but delivering quality and consistent services. One more thing, we've stopped working with all these freelance sites ages ago, because its getting so much over populated that chances you can get a positive client/outsources is very low. Go for companies not for freelancers.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    Hi guys

    i hire workers all the time and have a lot of experience with people from odesk though i would never hire writers from there. I find that the writers from the warriors for hire section are ten times better.

    Get some articles done from the warriors and then get repeat work from them instead have four or five of them and then when one drops out you have your backup plan in place.

    I find that you can get really good workers on odesk but i very rarely use them for skilled jobs it is more for things like doing pauls backlink packets, posting on craigslist, social media tasks etc.

    kind regards


    sam
    X
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    • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
      Originally Posted by dsmpublishing View Post

      Hi guys

      i hire workers all the time and have a lot of experience with people from odesk though i would never hire writers from there. I find that the writers from the warriors for hire section are ten times better.

      Get some articles done from the warriors and then get repeat work from them instead have four or five of them and then when one drops out you have your backup plan in place.

      I find that you can get really good workers on odesk but i very rarely use them for skilled jobs it is more for things like doing pauls backlink packets, posting on craigslist, social media tasks etc.

      kind regards


      sam
      X
      There are a lot of great things foreigners can do for US Americans, but even the best English speakers can have problems writing for us.

      Just imagine the look on my face when my friend from Australia asked if he could nurse my baby.

      Buck
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  • Profile picture of the author studytour
    HI

    What you say may be correct but not always. You have to try various countries and pay only when you are satisfied. Plus do not forget to ask for client references and old work that the vendor has done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Wow lots of opinion, here, from my experience, you can get sloppy work done just about anywhere, I once hired a person from florida to do some work and it was not as good as what I got from other countries, so go figure, you just cant tell a book from its cover, LOL,

    just kidding, but seriously, you can get bad work just about anywhere, geographically speaking offenders are lining up to show you just how bad they write, but you have to kiss a few frogs, as the saying goes...
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  • Profile picture of the author WealthWithin
    Thanks for everyone who took the time to reply.


    I will implement as much as I can and hopefully will be able to find few reliable outsourcers.
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  • Profile picture of the author stma
    Think of it this way.

    They struggle hard to write content for you for $2.40 per hour. It's not their native language so it's frustrating for them.

    Someone else will pay them $2.10 an hour to do some copy and paste work they don't have to struggle with.

    They don't get burned out and can work an extra 10 hours that week.

    (Think about it - what would you do?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Mission0ps
    Best way to find writers is to go with recommendations ... of if your a member of somewhere like the Wealthy affiliate other members actually can do the writing for you .. ever thought of them ?

    Join WA for massive benefits and at $29 per month if you pay yearly it's a no-brainer. And yep I a proud member Hit me up in the members area if you ever get in and need a hand...
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  • Profile picture of the author jamespitt
    Working with people in the Philippines is a game of numbers. I have lived there for 3 years and I actually know the people who are working for me. Even so, it is a tough game to play. A lot of won't last beyond a couple of weeks, especially if you push them very hard. I've had people go AWOL after 2 hours in the office. After that, it's going to become a lot easier as you get to know them. When I've done outsourcing projects for people, it's all about surviving the 1st month. Once you have good guys working for you, you'll never regret it!

    Some tips:

    Explain things very carefully, put a video together to demo it & work out a way to see what's on their screen.
    Find someone to work as someone to liaise between you and the guys.
    Don't assume they understand what you want
    Pay them a bonus on the work they produce in addition to their salary
    Once you find a good person to work with, pay them good money
    Break up big projects into little steps which you can monitor
    Keep the work simple and repetitive to start off with


    Hope that helps a bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Denise Oyston
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Loren has kind of hit the nail on the head. It is all relative. The smaller the task the better. I have someone in the phiippines. She needs step by step instructions. Point here or there.

    I actually write for companies myself and the reality is if you want half way decent content you will either have to look around and pay much higher prices or use a UK Aus US or Canadian writer.

    Cheers
    Denise
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    • Profile picture of the author Jute
      Hi,

      I've tried out 5 persons before I hit a home run....

      My advice is:

      -Keep it simple, first make them do one thing and one thing only. When you see that they are doing that perfect. Add another.
      -Keep giving them feedback so that they can improve.
      -People from the Phillippines are proud peaple. Tell them when they are performing well and tell them in a nice way when they are doing not so well.
      -Power outage is VERY common in many parts of the country.
      -Make them send you updates atleast every 2 days (what have I done, what problems, what will I do, what do I need)
      -Make them understand that if they do not know how to do something they should try to figure it out themself but if that does'nt work. Tell them that they Can and should ask you.

      Like I said, before you will find a diamond you will find alot of rocks.....

      Good luck!

      Jute
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    I agree that finding the right person takes TIME, and also you'll learn more about how to do effective hiring / management as you move forward. I blog about my outsourcing experiences - see my sig. Worth reading that stuff.

    I also will confirm that power outages have been VERY frequent lately, since about February, but the guys who are good will to out of their way to communicate with you about these issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author JMartin
    It happens everywhere. Look at McDonalds. Anyone here think that every minimum wager person they hire in the USA is a gem? No. They have high turnover. The key is the system. With the right system in place, you just keep turning people over until some stick.

    If you're training system is solid, then you get a quick idea if the person is "worth it" or not. Some people will fail fast, others will fail when you upgrade them from a very simple task.

    I've developed systems, and still continue to evolve them, that allow me to take on a different person each day if I had to.

    The OP is talking more about people who get excited to get a job but then fade when they realize they are lazy or discover other opportunities. This can happen anywhere.

    Should point out that I'm married to a Filipina, go to a church with 95% Filipinos and have lots of "Pinos" as friends. You could say that I experience the Philippines daily.

    Oh, also, I am outsourcing a couple people now. When I went through an agency, I got better results so far. I'm staying away from the TONS of friends/relatives I have access to in the Philippines because I'd hate to fire them.

    In closing, some people are going to be way, way better off just out-tasking stuff as needed.

    Make sure you ALWAYS get a time sheet from your hourly employees. You should know how long it takes them to do any task on average so you can do a cost analysis and determine their effectiveness.

    Good luck!
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    • Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
      LOL... You always get what you pay for...

      Originally Posted by Maverick_ View Post

      1. Assign simple, small tasks.
      2. Always assume it's your fault for not explaining it properly. These people want to work and are VERY happy to do the work for you.
      3. Make sure they understand the assignment by asking them to paraphrase it back to you.
      I think that in these freelancer sites most of the users bid blindly without knowing exactly what they are getting into. Those who do know what they are bidding on, sell themselves as if they speak and write the language fluently. I know, when I have some time left over from ongoing client work, I post my bids here and there. The sad part is, NOT too many employers are willing to pay my prices. SO, they outsource the writing only to hit a brick wall...:rolleyes:

      I always say, if you want quality you have to be willing to pay for it!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon12345
    If I hired a full-time filipino article writer, how many words per day do you think is fair for their output?
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    • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
      Originally Posted by Jon12345 View Post

      If I hired a full-time filipino article writer, how many words per day do you think is fair for their output?
      How much is the writing worth to you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mokai
    just keep going through them untill you find your gem, you have to go through a boat load before you find 1 good one worth keeping forever
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    I have to say "power off in the city" is a real possibility in the Philippines.
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    Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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  • Profile picture of the author tj
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Try to outsource to the USA instead.

    Timo
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  • Profile picture of the author joefizz
    Hi there

    Have you tried Elance.com?

    Excellent quality and very good value?

    regards

    Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Harvey
    The problem is a lot of people, including companies, simply perform well in the beginning but then start to slack off and neglect you. I would love to teach them some basic marketing principles as I find it very frustrating when I pay for something and the person just isn't that committed. It really does come back to everyday life as well.

    How many times do you hear an employee say that he/she loves their job?

    Rarely if ever.

    They will definitely complain- that I can guarantee you. But you won't always hear a good thing about someone's job.

    It also boils down to relationship marketing and what customers expect. With the invention of technology, people want things and they want it now! I know that I get impatient when I hire a writer myself but the fact remains that I have offered my writing services to people in the past when I have been bored and know exactly what people expect and don't want. Therefore I am more patient when dealing with freelancers and I keep up the communication loop. You learn all this in marketing in any case.

    Communicate your ideas and offer constructive feedback when hiring a freelancer. You essentially form a relationship with that person. In order for the professional relationship to work and exist in the future, you will need to communicate. That is the gold nugget here- as without communication the writer may feel that you are not interested or that you might not pay them and that has entered my mind when I have written for other people in the past.

    I would usually give someone 48 hours to respond to me. If they don't respond and come back a week later then it is unacceptable. People usually plan their days/weeks ahead and if you know you will be too busy to respond to them within the next two days, it is always advisable to state that in the beginning.

    It's like being a company. You need to be transparent with your business and expectations and then people can decide if they want to continue or not. Always offer a trial period if you are unsure. Therefore you can end the working relationship you have with the writer at the end of the trial period and continue on to someone else that really wants your money.

    As with any freelancer/employee... people lose interest or become dissatisfied with their contracts. It's up to you to see if you can offer something else as an incentive that doesn't have to be salary based. As an example: You could offer testimonials or a personal recommendation. That counts more for a freelancer these days as they try to get more projects, it becomes essential to have a fantastic reputation.

    Well that is my two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Calamaroo
    The only suggestion I can give is that you physically go to the Philippines.

    Pre-qualify the interviewees from your home country. Then go to the Philippines to do face to face interviews.

    This assumes your operations are "big time" enough to justify the expenses.

    Avoid the big city Manila. Go to places like Iloilo, Cebu, and Davao.
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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    I haven't outsourced yet, but everyone I hear promoting (professionally) Philippinos outsourcing clearly say to be prepared for delays as they have lots of long-term power outages and local emergencies (such as weather and utility problems) to deal with.

    If your needs are time-sensitive, you need to always have a backup plan.

    You can save lots of money by outsourcing overseas, but if there is a cost to delays, you need to consider that when you are ready to outsource.

    I don't think this can help you as much as help someone reading this who might be considering outsourcing.

    Hopefully, it can help someone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Riddle
    Well my first suggestion is don't hire a freelancer for a full time job!

    Its a totally different mindset.

    Write for a few hours a day is totally different than writing all day every day.

    What is working for me is to provide work that isn't writing all day everyday.

    I can understand wanting to give your writer an idea of the number of words you want your content to be, but to try to translate that into so many words per day is a big leap.

    These are people not machines !!

    Mark Riddle
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  • Profile picture of the author abhinav
    Well, I have bought the membership to Outsource Force by John Reese which explains these solutions in detail.

    Since, I have went through the material. PM me with your contact information so we can discuss your problems more closely.

    I have a team of 30 people working in an virtual environment, which includes:
    Content Writers
    Link Builders
    Wordpress Coders
    Data Entry
    Social Media
    And Software Running People (More of a Data Entry Guy Work)
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    Guys - just an update here ... the power seems to be more stable for most of my workers, but there are still power failures happening at least once or twice per week impacting their work schedules. They are just working around the blackouts, but sometimes they can't predict it. It was really bad a couple months ago and the power company published a rotation schedule for blackouts every day. It's getting better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lemints
    I was luck enough to have had a Filipino linkbuilder contact me from a post I made on Craigslist. That was 9 months ago and I am very pleased with his work as well as professional progression. I help him and he helps me. He now has valuable skills and I am hoping I don't lose him to a better offer. Because I offer him full time employment, I also get a better deal on his wages. We have worked together long enough now that he understands the tasks well enough where I don't have to provide the long details I once did. He has also expanded his knowledge of SEO - areas such as assessing keyword competitiveness, HTML/CSS/XML, and Wordpress.

    My experience with oDesk has been hit and miss, so now I conduct intensive interviews over Instant Messaging in order to evaluate their knowledge base and willingness to learn. Like all geographies, you will find different personality types so I cannot put all freelancers in a box according to their region. But as Tyrone pointed our, Filipinos tend to work very hard and are loyal. I appreciate this and because they perform at competitive rates, I am able to provide them with a relaxed environment. This includes paid time off, excused absences, the opportunity to correct mistakes, and much valued time for study.

    At one point, I was hard on my outsourced labor and looked at them in a very farmistic manner. This never really got me anywhere but frustrated and angry. When I made the choice to be more compassionate and understanding, the situations improved. Sometimes I give them time off and they refuse it! And send me reports on what they did with company accounts on their "time off". Most of the time, it is simple activity such as participating in the blogosphere and forums, interacting on social bookmarking and networking sites, and researching new tools that may be helpful with their work.

    However, I feel that I've been very lucky in establishing these relationships with my Foreinds. You reap what you so and they understand that most people outsourcing their work are looking for cheap labor.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattalways
    You get what you pay for lol. I do web development and you'd have no idea how many people outsource to india only to have to come to me to get the job done right.
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    Quit wasting your money! If you need a website, get me to do it right! I'll probably even do it for less! Design/Development/Software, I'm your guy! matt@snidge.com
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    • Profile picture of the author khanhdom
      Originally Posted by mattalways View Post

      You get what you pay for lol. I do web development and you'd have no idea how many people outsource to india only to have to come to me to get the job done right.
      you are exactly right. I tried to be cheap and hired indians and nothing but headaches. I been trying to find some reliable outsource work for data entry but it's tough finding someone who's reliable and be there every night/day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gwen_Iler
    If you want to hire a competitive worker, I suggest hiring only those with experience so it doesn't matter much to what area or nation they came from. What matters most is that they know what they are doing and you won't have a hard time explaining to them what to do. A lot of people are now outsourcing to india and philippines but english language from the philippines is much better than other asian countries since it has been incorporated to their educational curriculum since 1st grade to college.....
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    • Profile picture of the author DKeithD
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      • Profile picture of the author Gwen_Iler
        Originally Posted by DKeithD View Post

        I agree and to add, its been incorporated to them since nursery, they teach little kids in English, and if you met people from the philippines who have recent kids, they always speak english a lot.
        Thank you...... I guess that's the effect of having Hollywood Films promoted in Asian countries.....

        Japan is also starting to incorporate English Language to their studies but they just started doing it compared to the Philippines who started way back from World War II..... Plus other Asian countries have a very hard native accent making it hard for them to pronounce English words....(I almost forgot, this is IM not TM...lol)


        They were once an American Colony right?
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        • Profile picture of the author DKeithD
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          • Profile picture of the author Gwen_Iler
            Originally Posted by DKeithD View Post

            Yes the Philippines were colonized with by different countries like, Spain, Japan, and Americans (though the Americans helped the Filipinos with the Japanese). But yes other Asian countries are having a hard time pronouncing English. Just for information if you talk to old timers in the Philippines be sure to talk to them in English because they really are good at it.

            Ok...when that time comes.....I'll remember your advice.... Thanks for the tip.....
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Gwen_Iler View Post

          Thank you...... I guess that's the effect of having Hollywood Films promoted in Asian countries.....

          Japan is also starting to incorporate English Language to their studies but they just started doing it compared to the Philippines who started way back from World War II..... Plus other Asian countries have a very hard native accent making it hard for them to pronounce English words....(I almost forgot, this is IM not TM...lol)


          They were once an American Colony right?
          Well, Japan has obviously learned a LOT, if they are not doing better, then they are outsourcing better.

          Still, being an American or British colony obviously means NOTHING unless they have English as the major defacto, official, language!

          So India does NOT qualify! SURE english is an Official language. Hindi is ALSO! But many Indians know NEITHER! Most that speak english "well" there couldn't pass as non indian in about any English speaking country.

          I haven't met enough native filipinos to really say how well THEY speak english, but guessing from signs, etc... here, I'm guessing not too well.

          Of course this is NOT to speak about any individuals or country, but just in GENERAL.

          And Mark Riddle is right a freelancer is NOT an employee. There IS a different mindset.

          And N4PGW is right. Every dialect is a bit different. Of all the legitimate English ones, the American dialect might be the most distinct. We still use the old measurements, a different date, spell words differently, and you can thank god for accents!!!!! YEAH, I KNOW that Americans can sound as funny and insulting to you but nurse, napkin, restroom, are three popular ones that can be odd.

          And translating can be hard enough. Trying to clean the grammar can make it harder. And then trying to read a LOT is even harder. I can speak from personal experience there. Can YOU deal 100% in perfect Tagalog? If not, then you can see how they can have problems. As for education? HECK! Do you have any idea how much there is to learn out there? They may have other plans. Again, they aren't your employees, and they don't want to tailor themselves just for YOU.

          Maybe my last job would be a good example to play off of. It was to be dealing with something I am decent at to create a product to do something I am one of the best at. It was to be short term. Well, THEY LIED! The part I was only decent at became something they wanted me to be SPECTACULAR at! They want it their unspecified way. Anyway, I didn't take the job for that, never claimed to be that great there, and they still haven't even given the details.

          ALSO, about 15 years ago, I was offered several jobs paying as much as twice what I was paid, but didn't take them because they used technologies I figured were dead. Heck, I could have done a lot of direct Y2K stuff and didn't, for the same reason.

          They may have taken your job only because it was offered, and they figured they can do it. They may be tired of it, too busy, figure it isn't worth it, etc...

          Even most EMPLOYERS don't know how to be employers, so I guess I can't expect others to be good.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author madzseo
    I agree with some of the people here - it doesn't really matter which nation they come from. There are good writers and there are bad writers. And the quality would most likely depend on how much you are willing to pay your writers. You pay $1.00/article - whether you hire an American, Canadian, Filipino, Malaysian (or wherever country you get your writers) you probably won't get a good quality article.

    The number of articles you require may also be a factor - I've known some people hire writers and expect them to cough up 20 articles daily and expect quality work. They may need the money badly but..they're people too

    I also think that if you are hiring writers it may be good to pay them per article and not by the hour. I write articles from time to time and I know some of you guys do it too (for your blogs or for article marketing or whatever) and there are times when I can write a 500 word article in less than 30 minutes other times it can take hours.

    It would also depend on the expertise on the subject. It's easier to write when you know what you're talking about. If you're asking them to write a topic about something their not very familiar with, give them time to research about a topic first.
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  • Profile picture of the author GerryMedia
    I am active Odesk provider and a buyer as well. I recently hired somebody from the Philippines as a technical assistant -- basic HTML, data entry, web research, content building and some basic blog writing.

    I am now training her on customer service, CRM followup, and chasing marketing leads. And I always encourage her to learn, citing my own success as a freelancer to motivate her to work hard.

    Being a freelancer myself, and coming originally from the Philippines, I do understand the situation back there for freelancers. I've previously hired two people from the Philippines on Odesk and they disappeared after a few days, citing poor conditions such as slow internet, outages, and finding permanent employment.

    But the latest one I hired (who still works with me) has been a consistent performer. I'm lucky that she works nights, so I am able to work with her when it's daytime here in the East Coast.

    So again, it doesn't matter if it's Odesk or the Philippines or any other country. Looking for the perfect outsource talent is like the search for American Idol. It takes a lot of investment in time and management.

    I recommend that if you use Odesk and outsource writing and content building jobs, to be really consistent in following up the progress of work and use all available communication tools -- IM, Skype, screensharing -- to make sure all tasks and details are clear on both ends.

    Also use agile techniques and hold regular meetings, asking them what they have done since your last meeting and what they aim to do after your meeting. Also have regular assessements, and do pay bonuses and raises to reward excellent performance.

    Followup and constant communication is the key. It's easy for a team that don't see face to face to slacken if there is no consistent followup.

    For writing jobs, I suggest you pay on a per-piece arrangement, or if you agree on an hourly arrangement, let the provider know how much time you have on budget for that particular article, so you don't overspend if it takes him/her three hours to write an article.

    Aside from Odesk, you can also find good article writers on Elance, and they can be anywhere -- the Philippines, India, UK, Canada and the US.

    Good luck on your outsourcing!
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  • Profile picture of the author FiverrGuru
    Either get full-time Americans living there or pay-per-task-done.

    I had to plow through about 150 people to get only 3 that I use on every day basis right now, so keep on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cezar R Abadiano
    With any outsourced job you're not going to get that "perfect" employee right of the bat. It would be great if that were the case and I know that a good number of people who outsource have been lucky when they get the keeper their first time around.

    But for the most part it's like being a judge in American Idol, as someone mentioned here earlier. From the number of possibilities you have to narrow it down to the one that you think will work for you.

    Now whether it will or not is up to chance, your work demands and that person's work ethic.

    For the most part Filipinos are hard workers but like everywhere else circumstances can affect that work ethic.

    External circumstances can affect productivity like power outages, especially in summer although it has recently gotten much better. Back in the mid-90's power outages ran between 12-18 hours every other day, sometimes daily. So imagine outsourcing your work during those times.

    Also internet access can be spotty at times and when you call it in they always say there is no service outage and make it like the fault is on your end.

    And as for the payment I'm not well versed on that so I won't comment. But I will say that the way the economy here has been going it may not go far enough.

    As for those that disappear after a few days or weeks be it physically or in work quality. The thing is many enter into this because they think it's the best thing and "easy" money. They heard it from friends who work on it so they think they can also do it. Many of them are often still in college or just graduated and need a job so this option seem good for them.

    The thing is many of them don't realize the effort that's needed to produce something that is acceptable to their clients. Culture comes into play since they often don't write from the client's perspective.

    Once they find out it's hard they simply disengage.

    I'm not making excuses for my fellow countrymen (yes I'm from the Philippines) but that's often the situation.

    I suggest working with the people you hire slowly and try to get a feel for what they can and can't do and whether or not they will give you quality work in the long term or just a flash in the pan.

    Eventually you will find the one that works well with you and for your project.

    Good luck and hope you find the one that's for keeps.
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  • Profile picture of the author lacraiger
    i think you just have to be patient and keep looking.

    there are lots of good ones out there and i've worked with some of them.

    it's all about good communication and creating a system that works for the both of you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick45
    Hi all

    Well it's seldom that I am posting here, as I am pretty new in business and I am still experiencing to make make a living out of IM. However this thread is something which is one of my close things to follow up. I am native Austrian so naturally my English is bad bad bad. Anyway I was looking around lately to get the problem of good content writing fixed. I attended some webinars lately having for subject the outsourcing project especially based on filippino writers. So when I read your opinions I find some point which is for sure something not related to any country. To build up a loyal and good staff that will fullfill the task you expect it needs more then just hire somebody. It is most likely anything else in life. Rinse and repeat. I think it is wrong to expect to hit the jackpot just by hiring someone. Every marketer knows ( or have some of you forgotten this already? how much error and trial it takes to build up your business.

    So I guess the key is keep on going, no matter if it is online of offline.To hire workers is basically the same. It's a time consuming process.

    ( and guys sorry for I may spell wrong some things, ...lol..)

    Rick
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Even so, your generalization is fairly negligent.
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  • Profile picture of the author colinph970
    If you want quality writers and the real deal then hire native English speaking writers - hiring anyone else is false economy!

    A good native English speaking writer will cost between $0.015 and $0.05 per word. Worth every penny.
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  • Profile picture of the author indianbill007
    Did you try any Indian Outsourcing company from Mumbai or Bangalore yet?
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  • Profile picture of the author wendymay1
    Carry on and find someone else who can do a better job. Nothing wrong with phillipinos. We are all different some way or another. Good quality writers are all over the Warrior Forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyLuke
    Thanks everyone for their input.

    I've been able to accomplish projects on vwrker and about 4 projects over $1,000 each.

    I agree with the person that says interview alot.
    The other person that said start small to test them out.
    I agree with the person that said you can't think being sick is an excuse. You do have to show a pattern.

    I'm a manager of training and have a small staff I manage. It is so hard to manage their different personalities and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
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  • Profile picture of the author eshoppingez
    I prefer hiring people from my own country. That way I have the option of calling them up. People take hours, or even days, to reply to mails, but they always have their cell phones with them. If they don't answer their calls after a couple of times, you can know they're ignoring you, and you can move on from them. You can't have the same assurance with mails though.

    Also, when you call up and actually talk with them, they understand the instructions better than sending them through mails. Try this out; this might help you.
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    • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
      Originally Posted by ewritezone View Post

      ... If they don't answer their calls after a couple of times, you can know they're ignoring you, and you can move on from them. You can't have the same assurance with mails though.

      ...
      If they don't pick it could mean it's better to schedule calls instead of just calling when you feel like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeanneLynn
    I haven't had much luck with hiring Philippine writers either. The articles were very long-winded and they never seemed to get to the point. Of course, I've only tried about 5 or 6 from there, so maybe the 7th one would have been a gem.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    About two years too late for this thread :rolleyes:.
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    • Profile picture of the author serypeta
      Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

      About two years too late for this thread :rolleyes:.
      obviously not with all the new responses. situation obviously is still the same... and people still dealing with the same.. so still good info to read and know.
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  • Profile picture of the author hbhanot
    Try to search on facebook you will find good people in to write content for you and do other tasks. I found one lady on facebook and still getting my all work done from her and their team. It works for me I can not promise it will do the same for you but it worth a try and be good and honest with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author guyc
    You get what you pay for.

    The other thing is people don't like to be micro managed. I live in the Philippines and the one thing I notice is people try to micro manage people and they don't let them think on their own.

    The one thing I learned in the start is filipino's like to be trusted and don't like people standing over their shoulder.

    Example: If you try to make them use time doctor to monitor them and you're cheap and only paying them $200 then don't expect them to deliver.

    They will look for another job and just move the mouse around to look busy.

    Find one good person, pay them well, and let them do their thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
      Originally Posted by guyc View Post

      You get what you pay for.

      The other thing is people don't like to be micro managed. I live in the Philippines and the one thing I notice is people try to micro manage people and they don't let them think on their own.

      The one thing I learned in the start is filipino's like to be trusted and don't like people standing over their shoulder.

      Example: If you try to make them use time doctor to monitor them and you're cheap and only paying them $200 then don't expect them to deliver.

      They will look for another job and just move the mouse around to look busy.

      Find one good person, pay them well, and let them do their thing.
      You are pretty spot-on with what you have written here. You hit the nail on head. I couldn't agree more.

      Trust is important for without it, you can't do business together.

      Lastly, as others have stated, when you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.
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  • Profile picture of the author edpudol1973
    Sorry to hear that. Many freelancers accepting many works from different clients that resulting delays and their work qualities compromise. This practice is not only in the Philippines but also other nationalities.

    Better go to existing outsourcing companies. Staff are in house, they have supervisors to monitor their works.
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarNegron
    Getting writers overseas can be a challenge. I use to use many writers from India...but I won't be doing that again. After a while of trying to work with them to get the job done right, it never worked out.

    The Philippines and their content writers was a bit different though. At first, they had some trouble but I noticed that you just can't give up on them so fast. Sometimes they need guidance. So what I did was give them a few more chances and within time, the eventually started giving me quality content.

    Case and point, it may take a while but give the writer some time to adjust to your needs.

    -Omar
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  • Profile picture of the author JeremyHargrove
    Two thumbs up:-)
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Why The Heck Do People Revive 2 Year Old Threads? :confused:


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  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
    Banned
    The problem is that you are expecting too much for your money.

    You cannot expect the same quality work from a filipino that you would get from a native English speaker.

    The problem with outsourcing work to people from 3rd world countries is that they are unreliable, incompetent and cannot get the work done properly.

    Their work ethic is just not the same and you cannot expect to get excellent quality by paying $1/hour.

    Your best bet is to stop working with filipinos at all or give them special bonuses when completing a task. They might move their butt faster this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author UltimateFaqih
    but not all Writers From Philippines Like That
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  • Profile picture of the author icoachu
    You have to build in redundancy and source from many different sources. Also, build in some quality control.
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  • Profile picture of the author tenenali
    i think for writing skills better to find someone with native language ...Canadian or states
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    • Profile picture of the author zannix
      Originally Posted by tenenali View Post

      i think for writing skills better to find someone with native language ...Canadian or states
      Actually, English is a secondary official language for Filipinos.
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  • Profile picture of the author aduttonater
    As a business owner (And you need to start thinking like this) Would you hire kids or grown ups. Think about it. 3RD World country and you need to teach them how to speak Proper english. That is the frustration that most of us feel. Why would anybody want to do this? I would rather do it myself. Like the good old saying goes. Want something done right, do it yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author tenenali
    i think for writing skills better to find someone with native language ...Canadian or states
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  • A long time ago (two years, six months and about seven days), the OP said:

    Originally Posted by WealthWithin View Post

    For the last 3 months or so I've been using GAF and oDesk for small writing and content creation tasks. (paid task by task basis)

    Then about a month ago I started hiring writers on per hour basis. I've tried about 4-5 outsourcers now through GAF and oDesk.

    The problem is that for the first 4-5 days, I get real quality work done, with great turnaround and as per my requirements; but after that, ALL of them lost the momentum. Either they stopped responding to emails or came back with some excuse such being sick, going to the hospital, no power in city etc.

    I don't think that I'm doing anything to frustrate them.
    - I clearly mentioned the pay rate in job description.
    - If they don't know anything, I send them learning material and ask them to bill for study/research time
    - I thank them and encourage them.
    - For the last guy I even raised the hourly rate just after 1 week of work.
    - I've Paid on time for hours worked.


    I want to hire someone full-time. But from this experience, I don't know how I can find someone reliable.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Thanks.

    PS. Sorry to point the finger at Philippines. It's just I haven't oursourced to anywhere else.
    Then, two years, six months and about seven days ago, a warrior who goes by my name shared this:

    Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

    Hmmmn... you may not have the most efficient manpower sourcing, recruitment and testing processes required to hire Filipino content writers?

    Hmmmn... they may not be confident in working with you long term because you don't have a registered business in the country and may suddenly cut them loose when you feel like it?

    Hmmmn... they may be looking for other opportunities which can not only augment the income they get from you but also provide them a long term solution to their finance and career goals?

    Hmmmn... they might think and feel that they'd be better off looking for other opportunities which offer employee benefits, employee insurance, the security of constant long term work with a corporate ladder to climb, a competitive working environment offering life-work balanced systems, tools and resources which can improve them as professionals, their peers and seniors to look up to, rewards/incentives, fast promotions and salary raises for exceptional work, awards and recognition for constant exceptional work, extensive hands-on and on-the-job training sessions, monthly common company and employee goal development sessions, character formation and mindset developmental seminars, etc.?

    Those are 4 hmmmns...

    ...I'd formulate solutions, implement them and study the results I get to improve it further.

    It's constant work = I don't think there's an end-all-be-all solution for a 100% problem-free outsourcing venture, but you could get close to 100% I reckon, anywhere you outsource to, anytime too.

    Hope this helps.
    [time lapse effects here]
    Now, the same warrior's back, saying the same thing:

    Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

    Hmmmn... you may not have the most efficient manpower sourcing, recruitment and testing processes required to hire Filipino content writers?

    Hmmmn... they may not be confident in working with you long term because you don't have a registered business in the country and may suddenly cut them loose when you feel like it?

    Hmmmn... they may be looking for other opportunities which can not only augment the income they get from you but also provide them a long term solution to their finance and career goals?

    Hmmmn... they might think and feel that they'd be better off looking for other opportunities which offer employee benefits, employee insurance, the security of constant long term work with a corporate ladder to climb, a competitive working environment offering life-work balanced systems, tools and resources which can improve them as professionals, their peers and seniors to look up to, rewards/incentives, fast promotions and salary raises for exceptional work, awards and recognition for constant exceptional work, extensive hands-on and on-the-job training sessions, monthly common company and employee goal development sessions, character formation and mindset developmental seminars, etc.?

    Those are 4 hmmmns...

    ...I'd formulate solutions, implement them and study the results I get to improve it further.

    It's constant work = I don't think there's an end-all-be-all solution for a 100% problem-free outsourcing venture, but you could get close to 100% I reckon, anywhere you outsource to, anytime too.

    Hope this helps.
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