Internet Marketers Have No Class...you may agree after reading this

99 replies
A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"

A bit shocked I asked her to explain herself.

The woman then gave me a great example. She was once reading an article that instructed her to click here for more info. After clicking, she was taken to a long one page sales letter. She was immedietly disappointed and left the website.

I then proceeded to ask her what would've made her stay. She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with either reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.

She also suggested had the website had multiple sections or tabs (pages) that the link she clicked would foward her to, she would've felt like she was truly getting "more info" not just being fowarded to a obvious plot to sell her something.

This got me to thinking...are we (internet marketers) to fowarded in our attempts that we are scaring off ready and willing buyers? I'm still debating...what are your thoughts on this woman's feelings toward internet marketers? Do you find her suggestions helpful?
#agree #classyou #internet #marketers #reading
  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"

    A bit shocked I asked her to explain herself.

    The woman then gave me a great example. She was once reading an article that instructed her to click here for more info. After clicking, she was taken to a long one page sales letter. She was immedietly disappointed and left the website.

    I then proceeded to ask her what would've made her stay. She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with eitehr reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.

    She also suggested had the website had multiple sections or tabs (pages) that the link she clicked would foward her to, she would've felt like she was truly getting "more info" not just being fowarded to a obvious plot to sell her something.

    This got me to thinking...are we (internet marketers) to fowarded in our attempts that we are scaring off ready and willing buyers? I'm still debating...what are your thoughts on this womans feelings toward internet marketers?
    "She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with eitehr reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product."

    Of course, sounds like she would have probably done neither once she got that one tidbit of info that she had wanted....
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

      "She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with eitehr reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product."

      Of course, sounds like she would have probably done neither once she got that one tidbit of info that she had wanted....
      Well she explained that she really was seeking more info like the link was suggesting...she just didn't get it after she clicked...or at least felt she didn't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
      Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

      "She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with eitehr reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product."

      Of course, sounds like she would have probably done neither once she got that one tidbit of info that she had wanted....

      I too agree that she wouldn't have bought anyway.

      What she said was just a way for her to put the blame for not
      purchasing on someone else. Next time, she'll say that car salesmen are
      serial murderers the way they try to sell you on HumVees

      Igor

      P.S: money has no conscious or ethics. It will come to those who know
      how to attract it. We-internet marketers-attract money by selling stuff.

      Now, if she has a problem with that-it's HER problem... Internet marketers (for the most
      part) are really nice people!
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Keep in mind that even if your conversion rate was 20%, then
    80% of the people didn't buy. You can't go by what is the
    popular opinion otherwise you'll always be left in the dark.

    Some people tag all sales letters as not worthy to be read
    because of some bad experience they had and that's why
    'review sites' make a good selling option, but you'll never even
    please the majority of the people. The question is: How many
    people you need to buy in order to make a profit?

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Keep in mind that even if your conversion rate was 20%, then
      80% of the people didn't buy. You can't go by what is the
      popular opinion otherwise you'll always be left in the dark.

      -Ray Edwards
      Excellent advice. So many people think that you should aim to please the masses. That is absolutely wrong. You should target and aim to please the buyers. The rest can kiss your ...

      Most people think that hoards of traffic is the key to success. Ok, that is one way to achieve some success, I guess. The better way is to get traffic that wants to buy your products. It will be much less, but more effective. Focus on more money, not more traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I don't worry a whole lot about the people that leave my page, just the ones who buy. I just keep trying to increase the number of people that do the latter.

    Freebie seekers get mad when they don't get their freebies.

    obvious plot to sell her something.
    My entire business is an obvious plot to sell something...so is Walmart.
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I don't worry a whole lot about the people that leave my page, just the ones who buy. I just keep trying to increase the number of people that do the latter.

      Freebie seekers get mad when they don't get their freebies.



      My entire business is an obvious plot to sell something...so is Walmart.

      LOL Walmart is a big plot, huh? And Ray thanks for pointing that out. I just thought this one lady had an interesting point, whether I'll swich my way of doing business to adjust to her suggestion is another thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

        LOL Walmart is a big plot, huh? And Ray thanks for pointing that out. I just thought this one lady had an interesting point, whether I'll swich my way of doing business to adjust to her suggestion is another thing.

        Frankly Outside of this forum I wouldn't even describe myself as an Internet marketer. Generally (and its growing everyday) Internet marketing is not seen as an honorable profession. Some will argue that anyone on the internet selling things is an Internet marketer but the phrase has taken on more than that. Walmart of course is not the same a as a guy with a one page sales letter selling an information packet.

        Find a niche and describe yourself as an internet business in that niche and it will do wonders for how you are viewed. Internet marketers are right now about on the level of TV sales people with late night informercials. In fact in many circles Internet mrarleters are seen as below that.
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      • Profile picture of the author butters
        Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

        LOL Walmart is a big plot, huh? And Ray thanks for pointing that out. I just thought this one lady had an interesting point, whether I'll swich my way of doing business to adjust to her suggestion is another thing.
        Walmart and all the other major supermarkets are one big plot... Certain items are put higher up so women will look at them but men will generally grab the closest thing to them so they focus mens stuff in the middle, it is something like that was reading it the other day. Certain things are places all around the store to entice you to buy, it has huge amounts of manipulations as soon as you walk in the door.
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        • Profile picture of the author Glenellis
          Originally Posted by butters View Post

          Certain things are places all around the store to entice you to buy, it has huge amounts of manipulations as soon as you walk in the door.
          Most grocery stores with an in-house bakery will place it by the front door, so the smell of fresh baked bread can assault you immediately. And then they place the donuts and the cupcakes right out in front for easy access.

          Convenience? Maybe. To subvert your vow to only buy laundry soap and then leave? Definitely.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi ccmusicman,

            Who cares if we're tacky? I sure as heck don't. And my bank account doesn't either.
            Well as long as your bank account has a high opinion of you, you're good to go...good luck climbing out of the nickel and dime IM market and doing business that involves dealing with other human beings.
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Johnson
          She sounds like an awfully wretched person.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Eric,

            She sounds like an awfully wretched person.
            Which aspect of her behaviour leads you to that conclusion?

            Hi OP,

            Internet Marketers Have No Class...you may agree after reading this
            You're not kidding.
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            Roger Davis

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    • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I don't worry a whole lot about the people that leave my page, just the ones who buy. I just keep trying to increase the number of people that do the latter.

      Freebie seekers get mad when they don't get their freebies.

      My entire business is an obvious plot to sell something...so is Walmart.
      HILARIOUS, but ABSOLUTELY true

      Kingsley
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    • Profile picture of the author The Chris
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      Freebie seekers get mad when they don't get their freebies.
      That sums it up perfectly.

      That's not to say that there aren't loads of scummy people in IM, but I'm thinking more of people who lie about their background to claim expertise in subjects that they know little or nothing about and other dishonest stuff like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    People have all kinds of reasons for not liking someone or something. Sometimes the reasons are legit, sometimes not. Sometimes they tell you the truth, sometimes they tell you what they think makes them sound better, and sometimes they don't even know, they're just into finding fault with the world.

    If this lady would have been taking right to the spot on the page she supposedly wanted, she would have found something else she didn't like. That's the world she has created for herself, IMO.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author Thinker1
      I really think the woman had a very valid point. Although, we may not entirely go by her suggestion but to put in mind what she is talking about when building sales pages may be a great idea. No body wants to click on something and not get the info they're looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author czilbersher
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"

    A bit shocked I asked her to explain herself.

    The woman then gave me a great example. She was once reading an article that instructed her to click here for more info. After clicking, she was taken to a long one page sales letter. She was immedietly disappointed and left the website.

    I then proceeded to ask her what would've made her stay. She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with either reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.

    She also suggested had the website had multiple sections or tabs (pages) that the link she clicked would foward her to, she would've felt like she was truly getting "more info" not just being fowarded to a obvious plot to sell her something.

    This got me to thinking...are we (internet marketers) to fowarded in our attempts that we are scaring off ready and willing buyers? I'm still debating...what are your thoughts on this woman's feelings toward internet marketers? Do you find her suggestions helpful?
    Sounds like that woman wasn't a very nice person. Next! Seriously, you said: "I'm an internet marketer." She replies: "Internet marketers are tacky." <associative property: You are tacky!> Not so nice. In every business there are those with integrity and those who are tacky. Consider the reputation of the stereotypical used car salesman. Anyone with half a brain knows that there are honest car salespeople with class and integrity. If you truly CARE about your customer (and you should if you're going to be involved in this business), then that'll come out in how you engage with them. If I meet someone who's made up my mind as to what kind of person I am by what I've chosen to do in my profession, I don't waste my time or energy trying to convince them otherwise.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author SGTech
      I do admit that there are times the long one page cookie cutter sales letter can be a bit of a turn off. But if it works, who am i to say?
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      I wouldn't switch the way you do business because someone didn't like a sales page.

      Who cares if we're tacky? I sure as heck don't. And my bank account doesn't either.

      I would split test different idea's before I even thought about changing my model.

      Rob

      And your bank account shouldn't care LOL. A split test would be cool, I think I might do that, but I honesly don't think it'll make too much of a difference. Just thought I'd share my story with you guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    The best sites still reject more deals than retain. Exit polls will not help you as much as improving the existing customer experience.

    If I could read the surfers mind and present the page and info they wanted, I'd be making billions
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      I wouldn't base any business decisions on the fact that one woman judges an entire industry by a one time unsatisfactory experience. At least, that is the way it sounds by the story you related.

      Tina
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      If I could read the surfers mind and present the page and info they wanted, I'd be making billions
      I can't believe you haven't taken the time to learn MRML - Mind Reading Markup Language. :rolleyes:
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      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Nahar
    I think she did have a point and we shouldn't assume she is the only person on the planet who gets uncomfortable as soon as she finds out someone is trying to sell her something. The trick is to have a system that builds trust in the prospects. If they trust you, they will be more willing to overcome their prejudice towards marketers and many of them will eventually open their wallets after all.
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    • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
      Originally Posted by Nahar View Post

      I think she did have a point and we shouldn't assume she is the only person on the planet who gets uncomfortable as soon as she finds out someone is trying to sell her something. The trick is to have a system that builds trust in the prospects. If they trust you, they will be more willing to overcome their prejudice towards marketers and many of them will eventually open their wallets after all.
      Absolutely agree.

      It's amazing at just how many times most IMers accept positive feedback, but dismiss any other (negative) feedback completely.

      In order to be successful, you need to give the customers what they want, not what you want ...

      Enjoy what you do, provide real value and the rewards will present themselves to you ten-fold.

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      Tonster

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    • Profile picture of the author Jude.A
      Originally Posted by Nahar View Post

      I think she did have a point and we shouldn't assume she is the only person on the planet who gets uncomfortable as soon as she finds out someone is trying to sell her something. The trick is to have a system that builds trust in the prospects. If they trust you, they will be more willing to overcome their prejudice towards marketers and many of them will eventually open their wallets after all.
      I totally agree with you Nahar, trust is a very essential ingredient in being a successful marketer.
      If the woman was told to "click here for more info", then more info should have been provided and not a sales letter. The marketer should have taken her to a presell site first where she would get more info as earlier informed and then told to buy if she wanted more. It's all in the choice of words:
      "Click here for more info" is different from "Click here to Buy Now"
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    As Vegas Vince once said,

    "Most people write sales letters to convince people to buy, I write sales letters to eliminate people".

    You want to qualify people.

    Get the people who are serious about buying your lead product. These are the people who are going to buy your upsell, your backend, and other new products you come out with.

    20% of your customers buy 80% of your products. You want to find that 20% sooner.

    In the end, you want buyers not headaches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
    I think a lot of people are missing a vital point here. This woman isn't so unusual. As marketers you should know this - it's called pre-selling. It's why your list is more powerful than your web page.

    People are in a hurry and they don't all have the patience to research everything when they are looking for something. The main thing that really captures the attention of the visitor to a sales page is the headline. There might be many features of your product that solve the problem the person is looking for but if the headline and the first few sentences don't convey that then your chances of conversion will take a hit.

    It's the reason pre-selling is a crucial step in the selling process. The two are both as important as each other. The sales page should answer all the questions that might be on somebody's mind but, most people aren't going to trawl through 5000 words to find that out. The job of the pre-sell is to prepare them and make them ready for the sales page.

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by L Wilson View Post

      I think a lot of people are missing a vital point here. This woman isn't so unusual. As marketers you should know this - it's called pre-selling. It's why your list is more powerful than your web page.

      People are in a hurry and they don't all have the patience to research everything when they are looking for something. The main thing that really captures the attention of the visitor to a sales page is the headline. There might be many features of your product that solve the problem the person is looking for but if the headline and the first few sentences don't convey that then your chances of conversion will take a hit.

      It's the reason pre-selling is a crucial step in the selling process. The two are both as important as each other. The sales page should answer all the questions that might be on somebody's mind but, most people aren't going to trawl through 5000 words to find that out. The job of the pre-sell is to prepare them and make them ready for the sales page.

      Lee
      Maybe it would be best to split test with headline that correlate with articles that link to it. For example, an article discusses how to whiten one's teeth naturally. Then you're taken to a sales page selling a product that list 101 ways to decrease your dental expenses. Instead of the Headline focusing so much on just 101 ways to decrease your dental expenses, maybe it can say something more like, How Naturally Whitening Your Teeth Can Save You a Bundle Along with 100 Other Tips for Saving Money on Dental Care. Something along those lines.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"
    LOL!! You made a classic blunder! Understandable, but a blunder, nonetheless.

    I won't presume to know your motive for doing so, but telling her you were an internet marketer was as unnecessary, and about as useful, as a t*t on a bull.

    The only people you ever need to tell about your internet marketing are...

    1. Other business owners, people who are in a frame of mind where they might potentially need your services, or, in the very least, can appreciate your entrepreneurial mindset;

    2. Family and friends *who are generally supportive*... sometimes, unfortunately, there are family members who, while they mean well, are too critical... mainly, as a defense from appearing ignorant. So, you can tell family and friends but you need to be more judicious with this group;

    3. People who are genuinely curious and respectful. Some people are genuinely interested as to how things outside their sphere of knowledge work. I am one of those and I love soaking up information from all walks of life. Even with people with whom I disagree, I am genuinely interested as to how they arrived at their position, so people who are curious, AND respectful, are ok.

    But, sometimes, we tell people because WE are proud of it, and WE think its great, and WE understand how cool it is that you can make money out of "thin air" if you get the combination right, but when you casually share your passion with people, it can easily amount to "casting pearls before swine."

    And, as the saying goes... "they will trample them. And, then, they will trample YOU!"

    Better luck next time!

    Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      LOL!! You made a classic blunder! Understandable, but a blunder, nonetheless.

      I won't presume to know your motive for doing so, but telling her you were an internet marketer was as unnecessary, and about as useful, as a t*t on a bull.

      The only people you ever need to tell about your internet marketing are...

      1. Other business owners, people who are in a frame of mind where they might potentially need your services, or, in the very least, can appreciate your entrepreneurial mindset;

      2. Family and friends *who are generally supportive*... sometimes, unfortunately, there are family members who, while they mean well, are too critical... mainly, as a defense from appearing ignorant. So, you can tell family and friends but you need to be more judicious with this group;

      3. People who are genuinely curious and respectful. Some people are genuinely interested as to how things outside their sphere of knowledge work. I am one of those and I love soaking up information from all walks of life. Even with people with whom I disagree, I am genuinely interested as to how they arrived at their position, so people who are curious, AND respectful, are ok.

      But, sometimes, we tell people because WE are proud of it, and WE think its great, and WE understand how cool it is that you can make money out of "thin air" if you get the combination right, but when you casually share your passion with people, it can easily amount to "casting pearls before swine."

      And, as the saying goes... "they will trample them. And, then, they will trample YOU!"

      Better luck next time!

      Eric
      Eric,

      I usually say I run an online business, but I've really been proud of my marketing lately, but maybe you're right...keeping it to myself and the people that need to know will spare me some humilation. LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Gwen_Iler
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      LOL!! You made a classic blunder! Understandable, but a blunder, nonetheless.

      I won't presume to know your motive for doing so, but telling her you were an internet marketer was as unnecessary, and about as useful, as a t*t on a bull.

      The only people you ever need to tell about your internet marketing are...

      1. Other business owners, people who are in a frame of mind where they might potentially need your services, or, in the very least, can appreciate your entrepreneurial mindset;

      2. Family and friends *who are generally supportive*... sometimes, unfortunately, there are family members who, while they mean well, are too critical... mainly, as a defense from appearing ignorant. So, you can tell family and friends but you need to be more judicious with this group;

      3. People who are genuinely curious and respectful. Some people are genuinely interested as to how things outside their sphere of knowledge work. I am one of those and I love soaking up information from all walks of life. Even with people with whom I disagree, I am genuinely interested as to how they arrived at their position, so people who are curious, AND respectful, are ok.

      But, sometimes, we tell people because WE are proud of it, and WE think its great, and WE understand how cool it is that you can make money out of "thin air" if you get the combination right, but when you casually share your passion with people, it can easily amount to "casting pearls before swine."

      And, as the saying goes... "they will trample them. And, then, they will trample YOU!"

      Better luck next time!

      Eric
      __________________________________________________ _______________

      This guy has a point.... I mean why share insights to people who does not understand you or what you do....? It would all be just a waste of time and effort..... But you can spend time to people who are inline with your point of view....

      Am I right saying this? lol...
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      • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
        Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

        Lol, I rarely tell anybody I play poker as part of my income because I usually get treated to "50 bad beats" by John/Jane Doe.
        I understand. My nephew plays as a full time pro around the world and, mostly, online, and he never brings it up first anywhere, and hardly even after someone else brings it up. Because he knows too much to have to listen to people who don't know a fraction of it and only want to tell their bad beat stories. Thanks for the chuckle.

        Originally Posted by Gwen_Iler View Post

        This guy has a point.... I mean why share insights to people who does not understand you or what you do....? It would all be just a waste of time and effort..... But you can spend time to people who are inline with your point of view....

        Am I right saying this? lol...
        Yes, you said it right except "in line" should have been two words (I'm not criticizing but just helping you perfect your English )

        Yes, there's no good reason I can come up with why anyone should tell people about something that takes a lot of study to learn just so the others can give their ignorant opinion of it. People who are, generally, sincere, won't do that... they'll be more curious and maybe offer complementary insights that come from their topic of expertise.

        Cheers...
        Eric
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        • Profile picture of the author Gwen_Iler
          Yes, you said it right except "in line" should have been two words (I'm not criticizing but just helping you perfect your English )

          Cheers...
          Eric[/QUOTE]

          LMAO......thanks for the tip....I owe you one...... lol..........
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenellis
    The thing is, there are two groups out there: those who prefer to read sales letters and avoid most video, and those who prefer to only watch videos and avoid most sales letters. What they fail to realize is that most marketing videos are made by simply reading your sales letter into the microphone.

    Where I get upset is when the marketer ONLY offers a video, and takes 25 minutes to finally get around to mentioning price (and if they use the magically appearing "Buy Now" button, which only apears after minute 26, I am already long gone). At least with a sales letter, i can skim to the bottom and see the price first, then decide if I want to spend more time going over the sales letter.

    As for the woman's statement that internet marketers are "tacky", well, I find that people who paint with a wide brush like that don't turn out to be very good prospects anyway, so I wouldn't lose sleep over it. As one of the earlier posters pointed out, all I have to do is think about the fact that I haven't held a real "job" for 5+ years and my bank account is in fine shape, and I can instantly disregard her comments as "uninformed and of little value."
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Could it be that sales letters are losing their impact?

    I ignore them myself and I would think that most surfers are becoming more aware of what those site really are. Are surfers becoming turned-off by them just like the woman the OP spoke with?

    Are sales letter the new 468x60 banner ad? Ignored by surfers.

    While they may still work for many it's something to think about.

    The same goes for lists and collecting emails. Eventually people are going to get tired of the amount of spam they are hammered with and are going to think twice the next time a site is asking for their email.
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      Walmart and all the other major supermarkets are one big plot... Certain items are put higher up so women will look at them but men will generally grab the closest thing to them so they focus mens stuff in the middle, it is something like that was reading it the other day. Certain things are places all around the store to entice you to buy, it has huge amounts of manipulations as soon as you walk in the door.
      Don't you just love how they have the simple things all the way in the back. Like eggs and milk. I go into walmart for something like bread and come out with a t-shirt, a cd, some new juice in a pretty bottle and not to mention I forget the bread.

      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      Could it be that sales letters are losing their impact?

      I ignore them myself and I would think that most surfers are becoming more aware of what those site really are. Are surfers becoming turned-off by them just like the woman the OP spoke with?

      Are sales letter the new 468x60 banner ad? Ignored by surfers.

      While they may still work for many it's something to think about.

      The same goes for lists and collecting emails. Eventually people are going to get tired of the amount of spam they are hammered with and are going to think twice the next time a site is asking for their email.
      Maybe sales letter are loosing their impact, I mean, its apparent they still work, but maybe not as good as they used to. Thanks for pointing that out...any suggestions on how we can make a sales letter look less like a sales letter (maybe thats impossible, maybe we should focus on sales page versus sales letter)??
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"

    A bit shocked I asked her to explain herself.

    The woman then gave me a great example. She was once reading an article that instructed her to click here for more info. After clicking, she was taken to a long one page sales letter. She was immedietly disappointed and left the website.

    I then proceeded to ask her what would've made her stay. She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with either reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.

    She also suggested had the website had multiple sections or tabs (pages) that the link she clicked would foward her to, she would've felt like she was truly getting "more info" not just being fowarded to a obvious plot to sell her something.

    This got me to thinking...are we (internet marketers) to fowarded in our attempts that we are scaring off ready and willing buyers? I'm still debating...what are your thoughts on this woman's feelings toward internet marketers? Do you find her suggestions helpful?
    Here's my question.

    Did she bother to check her email, to see if the exact info she wanted was there via an attachment, or a download link (you know, a free report we often send)?

    Isn't that where it should be, instead of on the sales page?
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  • Profile picture of the author tribros
    The market is changing and so do the peoples surfing behavior. So it's wise to test it and end up with what's working on your niche and make necessary changes. If the long sales page is working for you then stick with, it if not then try implementing different strategy. You should listen to your site visitors advice but not at the cost of decrease sell. So just go with what's making you more money and what's working.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
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      • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
        I think it's tasteless when it's obvious they're being sold to. The second someone gets that feeling, they'll click off. Even if a marketer is completely cool about the whole matter, the vast majority are still going to say no.

        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I agree, testing is the key.

        I've had people tell me they HATE upsells and they hate the fact that I do it sometimes.

        So what? 2 or 3 people tell me that and yet I make an extra grand because of it.

        I tend to listen to the extra grand.

        Rob
        Done right, many people don't mind it at all if it complements the original product. There's always a few people who'll see it as pushy, but I remember an example from the first chapter of Launch Tree:

        You go into a fancy store for an evening dress, the salesperson shows you around and before you know if you're walking out with the dress, shoes, jewelry, handbag and hairpiece, even though you didn't initially think of them.

        The vast majority won't bite, and anyone who upsells will know that, but as you said, that little extra you get from the minority adds up and makes it worthwhile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ilya Feynberg
    I really don't like the typical sales letter either way to begin with, and there is a good lesson there...but either way it sounds too much like trying to please everyone.

    And yes MOST IM'ers come off as used car dealers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun Lee
    Business is all about selling.

    At the end of the day, he who has a bigger bank account laughs last.

    -Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      "She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with eitehr reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product."
      So, basically, she wants web pages to read her mind and take her only to the parts of the page she really wants to read. Sure, piece of cake.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Wrong.

    Sales is sales. Human psychology is human psychology. They've been saying that the sales letter has been dying forever, since long before I was born.

    People have been saying that list building has been dying forever.

    I tell you what, list building or sales letters are NOT dying. Neither of them.

    What proof do you have that they aren't converting?

    Please, enlighten us about all the stats you've gathered across countless niches and markets, analyzing salesletters and listbuilding, comparing that data with with previous years data and how it has declined.

    If you don't have the stats, stop stating opinion as fact.

    Newbies will catch wind and pick up bad habits to start with.

    Rob
    Wrong? Am I?

    I didn't state anything as fact but clearly as the OP posted, there are surfers who don't like sales page. It something that was also repeated by another poster.

    I guess that would mean that I am not completely off the mark.

    Sales and marketing techniques evolve as audiences become immune to or tired of certain sales methods.

    Do sales letters and lists still work? Yeah, they do. I never said they didn't. What I suggested is that maybe the current flavor of sales page is losing it's punch.

    Will they still work in the future? I'm sure they will but I suspect that some people, like the woman the OP spoke with, are growing tired of such methods.

    Newbies will catch wind and pick up bad habits to start with.

    What bad habits? That they can't necessarily rely on the methods of today to make money tomorrow? That they need to be open to change and evolve as buying habits change. That surfers might catch-on to thin sales pages offering free reports with the intention of getting them to input their email address so they can later be spammed to death with sales offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author reimon
    Interesting find.

    I definitely agree with what that lady told you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimG
    Just recently while conducting research for a niche I found a website that provided some initial information then asked a series of 5 questions. I had the the opportunity to check a block for each question that pertained to me. Upon completion of checking the blocks I was then directed to a salespage.

    What I found interesting was that the 5 questions had me interacting with the website and basically I was telling myself I needed this product at which time I was sent to a salespage.

    This particular product was health related and was geared toward providing a remedy for an annoying problem. I actually don't suffer form the condition but took the quiz to see where it took me and once I arrive don the salespage I would have been ready to purchase if I did indeed have the condition.

    I've seen this method used for a few IM courses but this was the first time for a health related product and I thought it was a fantastic way to sell this particular product.

    Respectfully,
    Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I'm getting a kick out of some of the replies here. A woman giving her honest opinion that she didn't like an experience she had, and many of you are ready to label her as a wretched, freebie-seeking whiner.

      Without seeing the article or the sales page she landed on.

      Wow...

      > She may have been hit with a type of "bait and switch", where the product was only marginally related to the article subject.

      > She may have been ready to buy something that matched her specific concerns, as identified by the content of the article she clicked from, but either didn't or couldn't find something that matched what she was led to expect.

      > The sales letter she was directed to could have been tacky, over-hyped nonsense. Don't tell me you never see that online...

      I think it would make an interesting test.

      Create a sales letter that includes anchors for the benefits related to articles promoting the letter page, and link directly to the anchor. See if the conversion changes. There might just be a surprise waiting on the other side of the test, who knows?

      I know that, from a personal standpoint, I'm more open to the message at the end of a link if it a) delivers on the promise of the origin and/or b) doesn't break the flow of my stream of consciousness.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        I'm getting a kick out of some of the replies here. A woman giving her honest opinion that she didn't like an experience she had, and many of you are ready to label her as a wretched, freebie-seeking whiner.
        John, I think it's because of her attitude toward the OP. She asked what shabit87 did, and when told she was an internet marketer she told her internet marketers were tacky.

        If I ask someone what they do for a living, I'm not going to insult them by making a sweeping negative comment about their profession, because that includes the person I'm talking to and probably many of her friends and associates, and perhaps her family members as well.

        Her comment was ill-considered and small minded, in my opinion. It's the kind of reactionary comment that comes from someone who looks to find fault first. This woman wasn't asked her honest opinion about internet marketers, but she threw out a handful of mud anyway.

        That's my take on why people are being critical of her, anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          John, I think it's because of her attitude toward the OP. She asked what shabit87 did, and when told she was an internet marketer she told her internet marketers were tacky.

          If I ask someone what they do for a living, I'm not going to insult them by making a sweeping negative comment about their profession, because that includes the person I'm talking to and probably many of her friends and associates, and perhaps her family members as well.

          Her comment was ill-considered and small minded, in my opinion. It's the kind of reactionary comment that comes from someone who looks to find fault first. This woman wasn't asked her honest opinion about internet marketers, but she threw out a handful of mud anyway.

          That's my take on why people are being critical of her, anyway.
          I can see where people might be down on her for a lack of tact, or for not having a filter between her brain and her mouth. Making the blanket statement that "Internet marketers are tacky" likely did catch a lot of the posters with the splatter, much like the innocent bystander in the classic movie food fight...

          My beef, such as it was, was when several of the posters returned the favor, using one statement to make broad assumptions about her personality, character, etc. Seemed like a bit of the old pot and kettle routine.

          If you look at a lot of what passes for marketing online, she may not have been that far off the mark. Present company excepted, of course...
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      Just recently while conducting research for a niche I found a website that provided some initial information then asked a series of 5 questions. I had the the opportunity to check a block for each question that pertained to me. Upon completion of checking the blocks I was then directed to a salespage.

      What I found interesting was that the 5 questions had me interacting with the website and basically I was telling myself I needed this product at which time I was sent to a salespage.

      This particular product was health related and was geared toward providing a remedy for an annoying problem. I actually don't suffer form the condition but took the quiz to see where it took me and once I arrive don the salespage I would have been ready to purchase if I did indeed have the condition.

      I've seen this method used for a few IM courses but this was the first time for a health related product and I thought it was a fantastic way to sell this particular product.

      Respectfully,
      Tim
      Thanks for sharing...that's what I love about this forum, you always run across a great tidbit of info you can take, apply, and succeed with...or hopefully succeed with.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyJohnson
    I feel like the most important thing that internet marketers tend to forget is that people are searching for information.

    Providing accurate, high-quality information to your visitors will increase their 'open-ness' to buy. Give them the information they are searching for, and your sales and conversions will soar.
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  • Profile picture of the author bensmokey
    You will always get complainers goes with the profession i actually don't like the long sales letters its to much to read to be honest by the time i get to the bottom if i do i have normally lost the will to live and don't really care anymore.
    However if it works for you stick with it to be honest it sounds like she obviously has issues how far do you take that kind of comment now shes labeling all internet marketers the same whats next. Whatever she thought of the information she got it regardless we all get disappointed from time to time but i don't see how that was your problem lets face it it wasn't your sales letter was it rude much
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  • Profile picture of the author ILUVCA$H
    I agree with most of the people here - stick with your sales page and don't let anyone change you - keep on making money ! There are many people making money - some ways are less tacky then others but I would stick to your guns and keep on keeping on !
    -Luke
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    There's something that hasn't been mentioned here...

    Frame of mind is important.

    And it's HOW you lead your customer that makes a difference.

    She made a search... got to an article page... and wanted more INFORMATION.

    Not to be sold to. Informed.

    She clicks that and hits a sales page.

    To me that sounds like a poorly written article and a poorly written link.

    If it was "Click here to discover the solution millions are using to blah blah..." then sure.

    Do you guys get what I'm saying?

    Seems to me this marketer tried to bamboozle this lady. No wonder she was pissed.

    -Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Well she explained that she really was seeking more info like the link was suggesting...she just didn't get it after she clicked...or at least felt she didn't.
      If you draw conclusions from one person's comment - you'll end up with a lot of conclusions and totally confused.

      If you have quite a few people who click your article link to the sales page and then quickly leave the site - you might want to look at your methods.

      An article which promises one thing and leads to something else won't be effective. I've seen that frequently and neither the article nor the site was especially bad - but they weren't properly connected.

      In this case, if an article claims to click for full information...it might work better if it leads into a sales page that starts with that expanded information. In marketing, your article, opt-in page, sales pages, etc are pieces of a puzzle you are putting together. If they don't fit well, they won't be as effective.

      It happens with people building lists, too. They offer a freebie - or have signup claiming to provide tips or solutions - and then they blast their list with one promotion after another instead of planning an email campaign where the messages relate in some way.

      kay
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      There's something that hasn't been mentioned here...

      Frame of mind is important.

      And it's HOW you lead your customer that makes a difference.

      She made a search... got to an article page... and wanted more INFORMATION.

      Not to be sold to. Informed.

      She clicks that and hits a sales page.

      To me that sounds like a poorly written article and a poorly written link.

      If it was "Click here to discover the solution millions are using to blah blah..." then sure.

      Do you guys get what I'm saying?

      Seems to me this marketer tried to bamboozle this lady. No wonder she was pissed.

      -Dan
      When I try to make sense of it all I agree with your assumption...still no need to associate me with the "tacky" marketer LOL. And Costa, you shouldn't care...I just wanted to know the thoughts of my fellow warriors. The comment got me to thinking and I was hoping by sharing this incident someone could make sense of it all or maybe even point out something I missed.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Shaun (post# 37),

      Business is all about selling.

      At the end of the day, he who has a bigger bank account laughs last.
      ...and presumeably, absolutely nothing else matters whatsoever in business?

      Not pride, integrity, honesty, etc. You can be as spiteful, arrogant, loathesome, dishonest, cowardly, bullying etc as you like - as long as the bottom line is good, nothing else matters?

      What kind of business are you in? Is no-one looking up to you as an example? Would you be more profitable (long-term) if your customers/prospects did?

      Hi Costa (post# 56),

      My humble opinion, if I may add, is

      Who cares. As long as the method works, why worry about being called tacky or otherwise. We all can be hypocrites and create a nice guy image but when nobody is buying, that nice guy image will not be bringing bread to the table.
      It seems to me to be a bit of a black or white extreme to think that you have to be either completely tacky or completely penniless.

      Is it not possible to achieve a middle-ground where one can be successful whilst also maintaining integrity?

      Amongst this present company, it would appear that some would consider me a fool for placing importance on such a seemingly unnecessary trait. But despite all of the power-talk about bank accounts and bread on tables, in my experience genuine integrity is the one thing that opens more doors than anything else, and pertinent to the point - more than anything else it reduces the amount of convincing and selling that needs to be done.

      For example - many successful people that I encounter consider pushiness as neediness, whereas they consider someone who maintains their integrity at all costs and is willing to turn down financial gain when 'other' costs are too high as the mark of real class and real success.

      So is the level of 'tackiness' projected completely irrelevant after all, around here?

      Hypothetically - if someone offers you a deal that obviously compromises your integrity to a degree but the rewards are high - do you decide that to refuse it shows a lack of ambition?

      Or do you consider that the person making the offer may have success, business smarts AND integrity - and they are making the offer to you purely as a test in order to establish whether you would sell THEM out to a higher bidder?

      Again - are you sure that the level of tackiness that you project is of absolutely no detrimental consequence or worthy of any kind of consideration, whilst pursuing a more profitable business?

      Is this not possibly short-sightedness? Is a sensible balance between the two not preferrable in terms of long term success and exponential growth?
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      • Profile picture of the author EndGame
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Is it not possible to achieve a middle-ground where one can be successful whilst also maintaining integrity?
        Hi Roger,

        I think it is possible, but it's a harder road to take. It seems to be far more appealing to people of a particular disposition to take the shorter road.

        These people often don't have the benefit of having seen what is at the end of that short-road, and trust me when I say it's not a pot of gold.

        I'll let Theodore Roosevelt sum it up for me:

        "A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad."
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Never, ever, ever, ever...go by what ONE person says to you.

      I would KILL for a 10% conversion rate on all my products.

      That means 90% of the people who went to your offer thought it sucked.

      You will never please everybody and listening to one person as if it's the
      gospel, is the kiss of death in this business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    She told me had the link been anchored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section
    She's absolutely right. This is something successful adwords marketers have known for ages and has been written about in Marketing Sherpa going back 10 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author costa
    My humble opinion, if I may add, is

    Who cares. As long as the method works, why worry about being called tacky or otherwise. We all can be hypocrites and create a nice guy image but when nobody is buying, that nice guy image will not be bringing bread to the table.

    Buthen, like some who said here, it's beeter not to mention you are into IM when asked by one who isn't. They will never ever understand.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"
    Everybody has a horror story.

    I was in line at "Bed, Bath, and Beyond" buying a new set of kitchen knives, and the woman behind me noted my Microsoft badge. She proceeded to complain about Vista. Apparently, she has this printer which is five years old, and it doesn't work on Vista. She called the company that makes it and they won't make new drivers. So every time she prints, her system freezes up and she has to reboot. This costs her three and four hours of time a day, and as a small business owner, her time is money.

    Now, if she is wasting three to four hours of time every day, then every week she keeps this printer is costing her well over $120 in opportunity loss. And if she would just go out one weekend, they would be happy to sell her a printer that works just fine with Vista for less than $120. But it is the principle of the thing, don't you know - the principle of "I get what I want, and I get it for free."

    And as far as I'm concerned, these people can eat my entire arse.
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    • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Everybody has a horror story.

      I was in line at "Bed, Bath, and Beyond" buying a new set of kitchen knives, and the woman behind me noted my Microsoft badge. She proceeded to complain about Vista. Apparently, she has this printer which is five years old, and it doesn't work on Vista. She called the company that makes it and they won't make new drivers. So every time she prints, her system freezes up and she has to reboot. This costs her three and four hours of time a day, and as a small business owner, her time is money.

      Now, if she is wasting three to four hours of time every day, then every week she keeps this printer is costing her well over $120 in opportunity loss. And if she would just go out one weekend, they would be happy to sell her a printer that works just fine with Vista for less than $120. But it is the principle of the thing, don't you know - the principle of "I get what I want, and I get it for free."

      And as far as I'm concerned, these people can eat my entire arse.
      Gah, I really hate those dehumanizing work-badges. The second people spot you wearing one, the second they stop treating you like a regular human being.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by moneysoapbox View Post

        Gah, I really hate those dehumanizing work-badges. The second people spot you wearing one, the second they stop treating you like a regular human being.
        Lol, I rarely tell anybody I play poker as part of my income because I usually get treated to "50 bad beats" by John/Jane Doe.


        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    my Microsoft badge
    hurry up with that windows mobile 7 'cus I want a damn zune phone! I'm so close to picking up the HTC HD2 but I want the new WM7 hotness. also, I would like to be an xbox game tester. I can start on Monday. Thank you for your assistance.
    And as far as I'm concerned, these people can eat my entire arse.
    not two thrids, not half, the entire arse. do they get a glass of water to help wash it down?
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      hurry up with that windows mobile 7 'cus I want a damn zune phone!
      You want the Kin, which does indeed have Zune capability. There was a great deal of upheaval around the question of which platform would be used on it, exactly, and while I can't give any details... it's the closest you can get to a WM7 phone right now.

      I would like to be an xbox game tester.
      We have a small army of those in the western Washington area (and another in the QA department at Red West). If you drop by the Redmond campus, they can give you a form to fill out, and you'll usually get to test one or two games a year on the average. There's no cash payment for it, but you'll generally get to select one of several software packages as compensation - and there's usually at least one you can easily flip on Craigslist for $300-$500.

      Oh, and I "retired" from Microsoft 53 weeks ago tomorrow. So the Kin isn't quite what it could have been, since it spent several critical months without my guidance...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sleaklight
    When people ask me what do I do for a living, I tell them I am unemployed and sit around all day playing on the computer.
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by Sleaklight View Post

      When people ask me what do I do for a living, I tell them I am unemployed and sit around all day playing on the computer.
      I like that answer, mind if I use it? LOL

      Originally Posted by moneysoapbox View Post

      Gah, I really hate those dehumanizing work-badges. The second people spot you wearing one, the second they stop treating you like a regular human being.
      I hate em' too. I mean I understand representing the company, but people should note we (the badge wearers) are NOT the company.

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Never, ever, ever, ever...go by what ONE person says to you.

      I would KILL for a 10% conversion rate on all my products.

      That means 90% of the people who went to your offer thought it sucked.

      You will never please everybody and listening to one person as if it's the
      gospel, is the kiss of death in this business.
      But of course, I just thought she made an interesting point and wanted to share with the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    Most people write sales letters to convince people to buy, I write sales letters to eliminate people".
    That is reframing at its best. See how the power of changing that one way of thinking is.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkSherris
    I think there's definitely some "tacky" marketing going on...just look at half the emails you get in you're inbox!

    I mean, for example: title's of emails need to be written so people actually want to click through them, but the whole, "RE:" and "FWD" when they aren't actually replies or forwarded messages is tacky, and a lot of copy is too.

    I agree with the comment above that people often want information and not to be sold.

    The people making good money online though are not tacky, because as we all know, if you're genuine and not just acting as just a salesperson, you'll see better results.

    I think there are always going to be skeptical people when it comes to the Internet Marketing industry - and people who will always believe that it's a tacky industry, however, you've just got to not worry about that and do the best job you personally can do at presenting yourself and your sales page/squeeze page/emails etc etc
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    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by MarkSherris View Post

      I think there's definitely some "tacky" marketing going on...just look at half the emails you get in you're inbox!

      I mean, for example: title's of emails need to be written so people actually want to click through them, but the whole, "RE:" and "FWD" when they aren't actually replies or forwarded messages is tacky, and a lot of copy is too.

      I agree with the comment above that people often want information and not to be sold.

      The people making good money online though are not tacky, because as we all know, if you're genuine and not just acting as just a salesperson, you'll see better results.

      I think there are always going to be skeptical people when it comes to the Internet Marketing industry - and people who will always believe that it's a tacky industry, however, you've just got to not worry about that and do the best job you personally can do at presenting yourself and your sales page/squeeze page/emails etc etc
      Ya those RE:'s that aren't RE:s are super "tacky" Especially when its from someone I know I would never email...I have no interest in Viagra thank you, nor did I email anyone inquiring about it LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

        Ya those RE:'s that aren't RE:s are super "tacky"
        Know what I do when I get those? I unsubscribe.

        Sometimes there's a little form where I can tell the list owner why I'm unsubscribing. I always fill that out.

        Sometimes the list owner sends me a nasty email about how I just don't "get it."

        Because the list owner himself doesn't "get it." It's my inbox. You play by my rules, or you go home. If I no longer want your stuff, that's not my fault... it's yours.

        It was your JOB to make me want your stuff, and if you've failed this miserably, nasty emails are the last thing you should be sending me.
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  • Profile picture of the author kchui1028
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with either reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.
    I partially agree with this woman. I always just click "X" whenever i got to a page or popup that have one of those cookie-cutter type one long page telling you how good their products are. I know right away they're trying to sell me something and click "X" and find something else.

    Maybe I'm just not the kind that click advertisement, i can't remember the last time or Ever did i click any ad on the right side of google. Organic results FTW.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    It seems like she was angry that she did not get the free tip or free information she was searching for. So internet marketers are tacky in her mind because some info is free and other info is not free.

    The point of any business, online or offline, is to make money. I guess that makes Sears, JC Penney and every other business tacky too.

    Oh well....
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    • Profile picture of the author Janeth
      Online or Offline anyone whose doing marketing has to be fast on their feet and think outside the box, marketers are a ruthless bunch. But they are what make any business a success or failure.

      The people that don't understand that are the people that will always be working for someone else.

      This lady sounds like a hamburger flipper to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    *chuckles* obviously the lady in question has never had an offline problem, nor had someone offer to sell her something to fix said problem. Why should online be any different. As far as what I tell people, that depends on if I get the right vibe from them. Some days, its "I help people get solutions to problems they have, while giving them excellent info." Other days its "I'm an arms dealer, and a mortician on the side, and business is ALWAYS good."
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Aside from being a somewhat loaded term, as some people mentioned above, saying you're an "internet marketer" isn't even that great a description of what you do. Sure, you market yourself on the internet, but so do Google and Target and that new pizza shop downtown. Yet, those are all three very different businesses.

      Like if you have an offline business, and someone asks what you do for a living, you don't say "I'm an offline marketer", despite the fact that your business may rely on offline marketing as a way of attracting customers. Saying you're an offline marketer would be true, but it doesn't really describe what you do.

      I think the term "internet marketing" should be reserved for the actual process of promoting your product or service online and kept distinct from the main of what you really do (ie: create/sell information products, blogging, sell physical products, etc.), so when asked you would reply "I sell educational products and coaching online", or "I have a business selling products on Ebay/Amazon/wherever". Not only is it more accurate, but it avoids some of the negative associations attached to the term "internet marketer".
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      • Profile picture of the author marcdonovan
        Personally I hate those long-long winded sales pages. They may work with the rest of the world, but not on me. I don't need to see 45 instances of social proof. If you go beyond 4, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" applies.

        I have seen some that are very engaging, but they are far and few between. Most are a waste of time. I usually jump to the bottom line. I would venture that 90% of you do the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author SilentX
    Sounds like this woman needs to learn the power of ctrl+f =o
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

    A woman recently asked, "What do you do?"

    I told her I was a fulltime student and parttime interntet marketer. She frowned and replied, "Interent marketers are tacky (unclassy)"

    A bit shocked I asked her to explain herself.

    The woman then gave me a great example. She was once reading an article that instructed her to click here for more info. After clicking, she was taken to a long one page sales letter. She was immedietly disappointed and left the website.

    I then proceeded to ask her what would've made her stay. She told me had the link been achored to a specific part in the sales letter pertaining to that one "thing" she was wanting more info on, then she would've read that one section and would've been more convinced to procceed with either reading the entire sales letter or just going foward with purchasing the product.

    She also suggested had the website had multiple sections or tabs (pages) that the link she clicked would foward her to, she would've felt like she was truly getting "more info" not just being fowarded to a obvious plot to sell her something.

    This got me to thinking...are we (internet marketers) to fowarded in our attempts that we are scaring off ready and willing buyers? I'm still debating...what are your thoughts on this woman's feelings toward internet marketers? Do you find her suggestions helpful?


    This woman was a stroke, a deadbeat, a mooch, and someone who would rather critique then create.

    They are a dime a dozen.

    To call IM marketers "classless" while at the same time attempting to give you advice,,,,,,, is not only hypocrisy at it's worst..... it just goes to show ya this loser had way too much time on her hands.

    I have often said that you could hand someone a free ticket to heaven....on the day the world ends....and you would find several peeps who would bitch and complain they didn't get first class seats.

    This woman wasn't a "buyer".....she was a professional critic. Albeit an unqualified one by her own admission.

    Hint: CRITICS DO NOT SELL ......THEY CRITIQUE THE WORK OF OTHERS WHO SELL....BECAUSE IT TAKES FAR LESS TALENT TO DO SO.

    Sounds like one of those self righteous "senators" who preach against "porn" then always seem to get busted snorting meth in a mens room with some kid have his age.

    10 to 1 odds she would have refunded anyway.


    xxx Vegas Vince
    Legend.
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  • Profile picture of the author Davy Norton
    hey yea when you just go to a sales page after reading an article its abit like now they want me to buy something i would say video marketing is best

    thanks
    davy
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicketas
    Sometimes what a person says they will respond to is not what they actually respond to.

    It depends on how intuitive the prospect is, how connected they are mentally and emotionally with their own needs, and how honest they are with themselves.

    Some people are very sharp and admit what they respond to, and seek to grow.

    Others are out of touch with themselves and very knee-jerk.

    And there's a wide gradient of values in between those two extremes.

    So just do the best you can. Cater to YOUR audience as skillfully as you are able to, and keep improving them.

    Also, be honest with yourself: Is anything about your offer tacky?

    A Sales letter can always be made to look more sleek and less obnoxious without sacrificing it's effect.

    Balance balance balance, everyone, balance.
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  • Profile picture of the author RalphealJackson2
    You know I think she has a good point here, and she should be in internet marketing as a developer of something, because thats a great idea lol! And at the same time I think that it's fair to readers, real folks thats seeking a real solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zentech
    Yeah, I'm "tacky." Whatever. Tacky pays the bills - and worrying about what judgmental people think doesn't. Trust me, I've tried the latter extensively, and finally got sick of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I think Exrat and JohnMcCabe said most of what I was going to, so I'll just say this....

    This thread carries an example of why the woman had a valid point.

    Statements personally attacking her and her right to comment are just ignorant.

    I find comments like "Tacky pays the bills", "who cares as long as it works" and "the one with the biggest bank account laughs most" pretty tacky to be honest.

    The way you conduct your business is your choice.

    You do not HAVE to be unethical, superficial, 'tacky' or anything else to make money.

    To suggest that this is the case is crazy and probably just some sort of psychological defense mechanism in order to justify doing what you know could be done better.

    So - while I don't necessarily support the way the woman gave her point of view - she's certainly entitled to it and I've certainly seen enough 'tacky' behaviour from IMers to be open to the possibility that she could have a point.

    Isn't this marketing 101 again?

    Any decent marketer will tell you that if you give someone what they were expecting - they're more likely to respond well to it. This is what conversion rates are all about.

    Someone already said it - it's called pre-selling.

    If you don't pre-sell someone and jump them from an article to a product sales page just because you're lazy and are blasting out tons of stuff playing the numbers game version of internet marketing - it's not the readers fault that you don't get good conversions.

    I think the OP was right to share this story, but I'm really surprised at how many people jumped in to attack the woman and dismiss her opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    Whether the woman is pissed or not pissed is not my concern here. All your customers cannot be satisfied with you. The woman might have had a bad day and she wanted to transfer the aggression to you.

    Customers are not always right. And you may never satisfy all your customers no matter how you try. Even in college, you don't need to score 100% to make first class or an excellent result.

    So, one customer being pissed off out of 1000 customers will not make me lose my good night rest. What about other 999 customers? What if I try to satisfy this woman and lose the sales I get from other 999 customers?
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by King Shiloh View Post

      Whether the woman is pissed or not pissed is not my concern here. All your customers cannot be satisfied with you. The woman might have had a bad day and she wanted to transfer the aggression to you.

      Customers are not always right. And you may never satisfy all your customers no matter how you try. Even in college, you don't need to score 100% to make first class or an excellent result.

      So, one customer being pissed off out of 1000 customers will not make me lose my good night rest. What about other 999 customers? What if I try to satisfy this woman and lose the sales I get from other 999 customers?
      King, it may not be just one woman. How many business classes teach you that if one person complains, there may be many more with the same complain but choose to voice it with their feet, taking their trade elsewhere?

      Do you, or any of the rest of the naysayers, really believe that she is thoe only person on the planet who may have formed a less than flattering picture of IMers because of the tactics they've experienced?

      I'm not saying she's right. I'm saying that she may raise a point worth testing to find out for sure.

      To denigrate her like many here have because she doesn't sing in the "numbers game" choir is unfair and may just be unprofitable.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        How many business classes teach you that if one person complains, there may be many more with the same complain but choose to voice it with their feet, taking their trade elsewhere?
        The rule of thumb is that in general, you will hear 50% of the complaints and 5% of the praise from your customers.

        So for every one person who complains, there are two having the problem.

        And for every one person who raves about how great your product is, there are twenty thinking your product rocks.

        Basically, if you have just one customer raving about your product, you can have ten complaints and still be doing okay - because that means you have as many fans as you have detractors. That's better than a lot of people ever manage.

        It's good to keep a near-zero complaint rate, of course, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rebin
    Sometimes there are nuggets in the critique or complaint. Nothing
    to change the complete course of my/your buisness but surely
    something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author joetheseo
    Very interesting, but the real question you're asking is if buyers will keep buying... and I think the answer is YES.

    If the information is exactly what they wanted at least.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayPeete
    Her suggestions are helpful but she shouldn't ever watch another television show, read another newspaper, magazine, etc.

    There isn't a single thing in this life that you can buy that doesn't have marketing behind it. I'll bet if Coca Cola asked her to work for them for $100,000 a year she would kindly jump at the chance but remember, Coca Cola and many companies like them advertise absolutely everywhere!

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing the lady. So why am I saying what I'm saying? It's because the rest of the world hasn't caught up to us yet. We are still pioneers in the game. I truly feel sorry for the closed minds of people that don't understand what we do. Just feel fortunate that you have the ability to think outside the box and have a chance at a life that the closed-minded people can only dream about.

    One day the rest of the world will catch up with the concept of Internet Marketing but it will be too late for them. I feel very, very fortunate to have the insight that we have.

    I know that she might have made you feel bad about Internet Marketing but stay strong and you will see a great day in your online business that other average people won't see for many years...

    Just remember, you can be a quality marketer that people love and not hate. It's up to each individual.

    Sorry for such a long rant.

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
    My immediate thought upon reading this was that this woman wasn't even a prospect or a buyer in the first place.

    When you write a sales page you're counting on making a connection with a small majority.

    Personally, I don't have much interest in connecting with people like that. People that are that grumpy about being sold make the worst customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Boy
    AKA Ryan i think most of us have missed the points raised. Unless I've not seen some comments that relate to this i see two issues here:

    - Your response to the lady's question
    - Her perception of internet marketers

    Now the debate has been basically on the later. Let me comment on that first. We should all take lessons on what people say. We can all learn from the old, poor and the insignificant and I've personally learned a lot from children.

    So why not think about what this woman said some more. See if there is in fact something to learn from her comments. If so make some small changes and test. The first point i think is more important than the later though.

    Have you heard of the 30 second elevator spiel? This is where you can make a great impression on people and start to persuade them to want to hear more. I would suggest that you investigate one and use it in your daily life.

    Just some different thoughts on the subject. Thanks Ryan for bringing it to us.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post

      See if there is in fact something to learn from her comments.
      After 20 years in the software industry, I'll tell you exactly what you can learn from user comments.

      Users are stupid.

      They don't know what they want, and will happily tell you to waste time and money doing something they will hate. And rather than admit they're a bunch of idiots who didn't know what they wanted, they'll go buy your competitor's product and claim it was for some other reason.

      Does anyone here remember Microsoft Bob? All the user tests went great. They brought people in who nodded excitedly and talked about how wonderful the software was and how much they liked it. The technical press ridiculed the whole idea, of course, but all of those people said the software was awesome and they absolutely loved it.

      Well, it turned out they didn't love the software for themselves. They loved it as a way to be condescending and insulting to other people. This software would be great for their grandmother, or their kids, or their idiot siblings. But nobody wanted it for themselves.

      And that product actually made it all the way to store shelves. It's quite possibly the biggest software failure of all time. The only thing that made its way out of that failure was... Clippit. The little talking paperclip in Microsoft Office. Which, for years, people ridiculed and insulted - until it disappeared.

      So, yeah. Ask me how much I listen to customers when they tell me how to market stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        After 20 years in the software industry, I'll tell you exactly what you can learn from user comments.

        Users are stupid.
        Hi Caliban,

        That's such a sweeping generalisation that I'm sure the experiences that formed it must have been painful, but it's just your experience rather than a fact.

        I own a software company and our software development is based COMPLETELY on what our customers and prospects say they want.

        In fact, they pay for the development too.

        I do have a theory as to why this works for us and that's that we don't position our software as the answer to all of their problems. We simply show them it in a way that fits their context but explain that 'of course' they will want some customisations to fit what they call things and their workflow.

        This means that after they've bought it, they expect to pay to make it suit them even better.

        Those changes are often suitable to roll into the product as they are already on our development plan.

        So our software gets better and the customers tell us how to make it even better.

        I see the customer as a VITAL part of our business plan.

        There's no reason at all for us to waste time and money adding features no-one asked for.

        Sure we can come up with clever things and tell ourselves that we know better than the customers - but at the end of it all, what really matters is what they will buy.

        So my experience is that customer input/feedback is critical and is the reason we have a great product that our customers love.

        Andy
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