The REAL cost of windows VISTA and upgrading to W7.

73 replies
I was rather disturbed with how Microsoft chose to charge so much for upgrading to Windows 7, considering the painful experience known as VISTA.

My upgrade to W7 cost about $250 CDN and I put it off for long enough but recently bit the bullet on it - as much as I detested doing so, if just for matter of principle. Rather an expensive fix to a tainted OS IMHO.

Further to this upgrade, even though I went through the system check at Microsoft that basically told me all of my software would work just fine on W7, that has not been the case, and I have incurred additional upgrade costs and headaches.

Today's upgrade was with Dragon Naturally Speaking, where my 9.5 preferred version is no longer working with W7. They smacked me for $120 to upgrade.

If you have had any unsuspecting upgrade requirements, or just plain time-wasting headaches due to switching to W7, I ask that you list them here so that others considering such, might get a heads-up for the real cost of upgrading.
#cost #real #upgrading #vista #windows
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

    I was rather disturbed with how Microsoft chose to charge so much for upgrading to Windows 7, considering the painful experience known as VISTA.
    After all, the ten years of engineering, development, and support by several thousand experts should be free.

    Reality: Microsoft documents the way you are SUPPOSED to do things in Windows. If you do them that way, they will make good and sure that your software continues to work. If you don't, all bets are off.

    Sometimes those things change. When that happens, there is a period of time that the old ways still work, and then they get shut off. During that period of time, all the third-party developers are supposed to update their software and make sure their customers get that update. Microsoft do not specify how any third party developer should do this, because it is not their business.

    Many third party developers do not like to waste time and energy on a product when they will not make any money from it. So they either make you pay for the update, or they just plain don't do one. This is their own decision, which Microsoft do not dictate or control.

    But when you go to that developer and say "WTF, my software doesn't work anymore" - they quickly throw up their hands and say "It's not our fault! It's Microsoft! They changed things and made our software break!"

    And on some level, that's true. But we didn't make them write software that was going to break, and we didn't make them treat you like a fool.

    Third party developers and hardware manufacturers lie, you know. When Vista was released, the new security model was very well documented, and every last component of what you needed to work with it was made available free on Microsoft's web site. If you were a big fish in your pond, you got CDs and books in the mail to make sure you knew what was going on.

    There was a full year of complete and total lockdown on the security API, so everyone could make sure they worked with it and didn't need to make last-minute changes. I have an OEM account at Microsoft. We got the same shipments and the same CDs everyone else did, and we didn't get them a day earlier than anyone else. We had over a year of lead time.

    And when the release date was announced, all the hardware guys whinged that they didn't have their drivers yet, and they were just not going to bother now so you'd all have to upgrade your peripherals.

    Follow the damn money. Dragon and all the hardware guys went "hey, an excuse to charge our customers more money, and we can blame it on someone else." You want someone to blame? Blame the greedy *******s who take your money and blame it on someone else.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      Well, before more laser tongue lashings - this is mainly grief in that I was practically forced to upgrade to W7, not like the situation with XP to VISTA, where XP was, and still is a very usable OS. Could not say that at ALL with VISTA.

      In addition, this is also a call out to others who have had upgrade surprises with W7, which could help in that decision, or possibly even looking to Mac OS for a real change!
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      • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Well, before more laser tongue lashings - this is mainly grief in that I was practically forced to upgrade to W7, not like the situation with XP to VISTA, where XP was, and still is a very usable OS. Could not say that at ALL with VISTA.

        In addition, this is also a call out to others who have had upgrade surprises with W7, which could help in that decision, or possibly even looking to Mac OS for a real change!

        I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with Windows7... It's turning out to be my absolute favorite OS so far (and I've used a lot of OS including Mac, Linux, and Windows)
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        this is mainly grief in that I was practically forced to upgrade to W7
        How, exactly, were you "forced" to upgrade?

        Did Microsoft do it?

        Look, I get a little defensive about this, because I was on the team that shipped Vista. We shipped a damn good operating system that worked amazingly well, with two notable exceptions.

        1. Upgrades. A lot of the things some third-party software did to configure itself became illegal under Vista's security model, and if you upgraded a system with illegal software configurations, the illegal parts were removed. For a properly-written application, this meant your configuration reverted to defaults and was reinstituted legally. For a badly-written application, this meant your software misbehaved or crashed. Any application written correctly under the Windows Interface Guidelines for Windows 95 would work properly - which meant any properly-written software for the past ten years would still work.

        2. Hardware. The illegality of software configurations was a cakewalk compared to the simply stunning lack of concern hardware drivers had for system security and stability. Drivers were requested from the largest manufacturers, and where they were not delivered (which was most of the time), a large number of the more-crucial drivers were written by Microsoft to ensure that the most common components would still work. A notable problem was laptops, which frequently needed special drivers that the manufacturers simply wouldn't provide... especially if the model wasn't being actively sold anymore.

        No matter how long or how hard we tried, we couldn't reduce the number of things that wouldn't work below mumble percent, and when we hit the point that new products were coming out faster than we could develop support for them... well, that's the end. That's where you can't make it any better, ever, and it's as good as you're going to get.

        So we shipped it. We knew it wasn't good enough to make everybody happy, because it was impossible to make it good enough. It couldn't be done. Neither the hardware manufacturers nor the third-party developers would follow the new security models until they were actually forced to comply... by the demands of their own customers.

        And they spent the first year or two directing all those customers to turn off the security and stability features of Vista, and remove virtually every real benefit Vista had in the first place.

        The single biggest improvement Win7 has over Vista is that nobody is trying to make it behave like XP. Vista couldn't be made to behave like XP, and the harder you tried, the more of a mess you made. The biggest issue people had with Vista was that they fought tooth and nail to make it into XP, and then couldn't clean up the mess - so they had to live with it.

        We're not just angry that people blame us for what's not our fault. We're angry that people had to have these problems in the first place. We're angry at the developers and manufacturers, who ought to know better. We're angry at the greed and lack of care these people showed to their customers, and we're angry at how they blamed us for all of it - making Microsoft foot the bill for millions of support calls about things we couldn't fix in the first place.

        Billions of dollars and millions of man-hours were spent making Vista the best it could be, and it was simply not possible to make it any better. We deserve a damn medal for the work we did on it. Do you know how many thousands of times I personally upgraded eight-year-old notebook computers to Vista just to make sure it worked at all?

        But that's not important. What's important is that you can't overclock the GPU on its video card anymore, and the thumbprint scanner doesn't work.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          How, exactly, were you "forced" to upgrade?

          Did Microsoft do it?

          Look, I get a little defensive about this, because I was on the team that shipped Vista. We shipped a damn good operating system that worked amazingly well, with two notable exceptions.
          I didn't know this, but I suppose I could have guessed. Hey not knocking your work sir, but I really don't have time to read your story here, Reality is reality though > the users of VISTA have made a fairly clear decision in spite of your honorable belief in the product.

          This thread was intended to expose hidden costs of upgrading to W7.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            Hey not knocking your work sir, but I really don't have time to read your story here, Reality is reality though
            If you don't have time to hear the other side of the story, you don't know what reality is.

            And I haven't even begun to talk about the time correlation between public Vista demos and OSX updates throughout development.

            You are being misled by people who want your money. They are not conspiring to destroy Microsoft. They are not "fighting the power." They are not "standing up for the little guy." And they do not give a tinker's dam about your trials and tribulations.

            They just want your money.

            Microsoft is just a convenient target. They can point at Microsoft and make you look over there while they take your money. Then when you say "where is my money?" they say "ooh, Microsoft must have taken it" and run away.

            It's a con game. You're being cheated. Sit down and take a close look at every dime you've spent on your computer, who got it, and why you spent it. The con artists will tell you it was all because of Microsoft... but Microsoft don't get the money, do they?
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                Yeah. I suppose I dreamt of all those forums where people were cussing VISTA.
                Nope. There really are a lot of people out there blaming Microsoft and Vista for all the problems they have with their third-party hardware and software. Always have been.

                But there are a billion Windows users on this planet.

                How many of them are on those forums? A few thousand?

                By that logic, you only need a couple dozen people complaining about OSX before it's a crappier operating system than Windows.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  Nope. There really are a lot of people out there blaming Microsoft and Vista for all the problems they have with their third-party hardware and software. Always have been.

                  But there are a billion Windows users on this planet.

                  How many of them are on those forums? A few thousand?

                  By that logic, you only need a couple dozen people complaining about OSX before it's a crappier operating system than Windows.

                  Bingo.

                  I don't care what operating system you use. Anytime you go from a 32-bit processor to a 64-bit processor, the game changes. Just like the change from Windows 3.1 to 95. The operating systems works fine.

                  Blaming Microsoft for Dragon NS not working isn't Microsoft's problem. DNS has already solved the problem by releasing 64 bit support... quite some time ago actually.

                  PCs have been around long enough, people should know by now that when you upgrade something as fundamental as the OS, it's going to create 3rd party applications that weren't coded to support the new provisions in the OS framework. Period. Hardware drivers are different. The entire framework is different.

                  There's application issues when you try to run new versions of iWork on older versions of Mac OS. And Apple owns both of them.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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                    • Profile picture of the author bocephus
                      If you make a shift from one major operating system to another, you are going to feel pain. That's the nature of change in technology. I've been in the technology business as an admin for over 20 years and have used pretty much every OS. Nobody has made a perfect one yet. I love working with Macs as well, but I can assure you that there are plenty of problems in that world as well.

                      If I would take anything from the OP's point it would be that you need to do some careful research before making the leap to a new OS. Inventory all of the software you currently use and "must have" and find out if the current incarnation you own will work with the new operating system. (This goes for the Mac users as well... plenty of crying out there after the move to Intel and the lack of programs that ran natively right away... or even the transition to 10.6). With a reasonable amount of research you should have a pretty good idea of what will work, what won't, and what it will cost to get the stuff that won't running under the new OS.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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                        • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
                          What's IM software?

                          When I converted from XP to Vista, all but 1 software I had wouldn't work.

                          When I converted from Vista to W7 everything that worked in Vista worked under W7. I went from Vista 32bit to a new laptop with Vista 64Bit, none of the software that worked under Vista 32 didn't work under Vista 64. Meaning ALL software worked.

                          Dragon 9 worked under Vista 64 with some tweaking but it did work.

                          W7 with XP Mode, ALL software worked without exception.


                          Adobe CS3 Suite - Works Great. Fireworks wont work with Ario Theme or whatever it is called so W7 downgrades the theme while FW is running but the software itself works just fine.

                          Software from 32bit version like CMD.exe and other things that were not suppose to work under 64 bit works amazingly well.


                          The startmenu got reworked in W7 but I rarely actually use it anymore so doesn't bother me. The search is very much improved so all I have to do is type few letters of the software or folder I want and it appears in the top of the list of results. No more hunting for stuff in control panel etc...

                          The improvements out weight the down side. Though if I hadn't have taken the time to look for addons that make working in W7 easier than out of the box I would be complaining too probably.

                          Honestly though, for me. W7 Ultimate 64 Bit is the best OS I have ever used and this laptop is my main computer now.

                          I have two 22" monitors hooked up to it, the lid closed and unless you peaked around behind the monitors you would never know this computer was a laptop.

                          - T




                          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                          Yeah, as mentioned above the compatibility check went pretty much seamless using Microsoft's own check system available on their site.

                          Ok one more time -

                          Has anyone had other incompatibility issues and costs with software when upgrading to W7? Something others might be curious about when they decide as well, perhaps even more associated with IM software?
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                        • Profile picture of the author bocephus
                          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                          Has anyone had other incompatibility issues and costs with software when upgrading to W7? Something others might be curious about when they decide as well, perhaps even more associated with IM software?
                          No. Everything I was running in XP works in Windows 7... and it's a pile of stuff. A bunch of geek stuff, but a pretty good pile.
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                        • Profile picture of the author cindybidar
                          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                          Has anyone had other incompatibility issues and costs with software when upgrading to W7? Something others might be curious about when they decide as well, perhaps even more associated with IM software?
                          Yes. Notepad++ turned my gorgeous new 23" HD monitor into a fuzzy-iconed 600x800 pixel nightmare that I could not fix. Ended up having to reformat the hard drive to fix it.

                          Other than that, I love Windows 7. And my biggest complaint with Vista is and always has been the memory suckage. Just for comparison sake, I have a laptop with 4GB RAM that runs Vista. Takes almost three minutes to boot up and log in. This is on a fresh install, too, so there's not a bunch of clutter slowing it down. It just takes that long. My Windows 7 machine, also with 4GB RAM, boots, logs in, and is on the 'net in just under 30 seconds.
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            • Profile picture of the author JackBenson
              I first got Vista on SP2 I believe, with a new laptop, and for me it has run just fine, no problems at all.

              I have no reason to upgrade to Win7, I will get it when I get a new computer.

              Maybe if I got it in the beginning I would feel different, but I thought they fixed a lot of the issues as time went on.
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            • Profile picture of the author Peter Gregory
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              You are being misled by people who want your money. They are not conspiring to destroy Microsoft. They are not "fighting the power." They are not "standing up for the little guy." And they do not give a tinker's dam about your trials and tribulations.

              They just want your money.
              I understand your passion and intensity regarding the subject as it is obviously something somewhat personal for you. However, I think it is getting a little off course here.

              Isn't all this just par for the course? When there is a new upgrade for an OS, it is common for programs not to work any longer or require upgrades. Some developers do it free and others charge (depending on their agreements with their customers.) That's just the way it is, always has been, and always will be.

              I don't think there is as much of a blame game going on here as it is just a reality of the software/hardware business. Without putting words in OP's mouth I think what the he was getting at mostly is that he checked with Microsoft prior to upgrading and it seemed all of his programs would work fine, but once he made that upgrade that was not the case, thus the reason for the additional costs from Dragon Natural Speaking.
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      • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Well, before more laser tongue lashings - this is mainly grief in that I was practically forced to upgrade to W7, not like the situation with XP to VISTA, where XP was, and still is a very usable OS. Could not say that at ALL with VISTA.

        In addition, this is also a call out to others who have had upgrade surprises with W7, which could help in that decision, or possibly even looking to Mac OS for a real change!
        I upgraded from Vista to 7 for $100. And I'm very happy that I did so. Bought Dragon 10 for $65. Both on ebay. Both legal. No issues. There are people out there that bitch about not being able to use win 98. I'd really advise against Mac not because they're no good, just because you are then completely locked into their hardware and software. And should you want to run windows apps, you'll have to get windows installed along with Parallels.

        If you don't like the costs, just take some time and shop around. The software I mentioned was brand new in box.
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Gregory
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Follow the damn money. Dragon and all the hardware guys went "hey, an excuse to charge our customers more money, and we can blame it on someone else." You want someone to blame? Blame the greedy *******s who take your money and blame it on someone else.
      But just as Microsoft has put the time and money into their product, thus deserving of the upgrade costs, wouldn't third party developers be entitled to the same to compensate their costs? I'm not at all denying the fact that there are plenty of them out there that just want to gouge a little more money from their loyal customers and the ethics behind that is between them and there customers, but on the surface wouldn't it seem only fair? Unless of course, they promised free uprades for life or something of that nature.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Peter Gregory View Post

        But just as Microsoft has put the time and money into their product, thus deserving of the upgrade costs, wouldn't third party developers be entitled to the same to compensate their costs?
        I'm not complaining that they are being compensated.

        I'm complaining that they blame Microsoft for making you compensate them.

        When a security or stability fix is needed in Windows or Office, you get it for free as part of Windows Update.

        But in this case, a third-party developer has said "we put the fix into this new version that costs money."

        I don't deny that people should pay money for the new version. I simply think it's unfair to say that anyone except YOU decided not to ship a free fix for the existing versions. You have every right to make that decision, but take some damn responsibility for it. Tell your customers that you decided you don't care about customers who aren't giving you money, so you're not going to support them. Once they hand you the check, your job is done and they can piss off.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Reality: Microsoft documents the way you are SUPPOSED to do things in Windows. If you do them that way, they will make good and sure that your software continues to work. If you don't, all bets are off.
      BULL!!!!!

      They were TAKEN TO COURT by SUN because they INTENTIONALLY tried to cause compatibility problems! IBM took them to court because they changed some things sometime back to frustrate OS/2! In 1997, they changed OLE so even some of THEIR software, and software WRITTEN with it, would FAIL! HECK, XP SP2 disabled things that THEY recommended people use! VISTA had TONS of incompatibility problems. And did you know that they ENCOURAGE an ASSERT on a null pointer!?!? The old fashioned way is a graceful degrade, maybe a message like "Not enough memory to do ..." and simply bypass the functionality that set and needs that. The M/S way is to print out a message that basically means "Here are pointers in case YOU wrote the program and can use them. I'll dump everything you just did. Please try again later, or REBOOT.", and then just terminate.

      They ALSO, in VISTA, not only REMOVED tapi, but disabled the device ID so it can't even be used by ANOTHER product, such as openvpn(which had to create a NEW version for vista SIMPLY because of THIS)!

      M/S FIGHTS compatibility! They have for MOST of their existence and probably always will. And DON'T get me started on frontpage, web activeX, ASP, etc...

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

    I was rather disturbed with how Microsoft chose to charge so much for upgrading to Windows 7, considering the painful experience known as VISTA.

    My upgrade to W7 cost about $250 CDN and I put it off for long enough but recently bit the bullet on it - as much as I detested doing so, if just for matter of principle. Rather an expensive fix to a tainted OS IMHO.

    Further to this upgrade, even though I went through the system check at Microsoft that basically told me all of my software would work just fine on W7, that has not been the case, and I have incurred additional upgrade costs and headaches.

    Today's upgrade was with Dragon Naturally Speaking, where my 9.5 preferred version is no longer working with W7. They smacked me for $120 to upgrade.

    If you have had any unsuspecting upgrade requirements, or just plain time-wasting headaches due to switching to W7, I ask that you list them here so that others considering such, might get a heads-up for the real cost of upgrading.

    You can always run your programs as Windows Vista ON Win7 (on a program by program basis)

    I have to do this with my issue of Photoshop and my old Camtasia 3 install because I couldn't reactivate the product key. Doesn't cause any disruptions or anything.



    Go to the program folder (or better yet, the install file), right click the .exe file.

    Go to Properties

    Go to "Compatibility" Tab

    Check the box that says something to the effect of "Run this in compatibility mode for:"

    Select Windows Vista Service Pack (whatever)

    Hit Apply

    Hit Ok


    Program should run perfectly fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Hey Marty.

    If you really wanted to upgrade, a better option would have been to go with a Mac. Personally, I'm in love with the Mac.

    Karan
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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      • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Haha. Yes, got one too and love it. It could be sooner than later I switch the entire operation to Mac.
        It will be a clever move. But be alarmed that you won't be able to run you Win apps on the Mac. For that you can use Bootcamp to multiboot or use Parallels. I'm using it and running Format Factory to convert a movie, as I type it.

        Karan
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        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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          • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            Oh yes, have paralells too, a program I really like > and am running XP as the OS on the Mac.
            I run Win 7. I have never faced any troubles running any programs that were on my XP on this virtual OS. The system(s) work pretty fast and are an eye-candy too.

            Karan
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by Karan Goel View Post

      Hey Marty.

      If you really wanted to upgrade, a better option would have been to go with a Mac. Personally, I'm in love with the Mac.

      Karan
      I use a Mac too and I just upgraded to Snow Leopard only to find many of the same issues as the OP. My costs to fix everything were quite a bit lower but I agree, this forced upgrade crap is getting out of hand.
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      • Profile picture of the author AllAboutAction
        Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        I use a Mac too and I just upgraded to Snow Leopard only to find many of the same issues as the OP. My costs to fix everything were quite a bit lower but I agree, this forced upgrade crap is getting out of hand.

        Who is forcing you to upgrade?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    I've decided my next computer will be an iMac (prob the 27" model)

    I've never used Mac before, but the more I hear and see what they are capable of vs PCs the more I think its time to make a swtich (tho I'll still have my Vista 64x laptop for now)

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      I've decided my next computer will be an iMac (prob the 27" model)

      I've never used Mac before, but the more I hear and see what they are capable of vs PCs the more I think its time to make a swtich (tho I'll still have my Vista 64x laptop for now)

      ~Dexx
      Hey Dexx.

      Don't worry about learning. I have been using my Mac for less than 2 months (on 26 May, it'll be 2 months old) and I already feel that I'm a Mac expert. It's that easy!

      Karan
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      When I got tired of XP's quirks I upgraded to openSUSE 11.2 Linux. It was so easy it was astonishing. The modern Linux distros are amazing.

      So far the only win32 app I like that doesn't run properly in Wine is the Dragon. Fortunately, I don't have RSI and only use it when I do a lot of writing. When I get around to it I'll buy some more RAM and create a virtual machine for it. Until then I will just boot to XP when I really want to use it.
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      “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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    • Profile picture of the author AllAboutAction
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      The only thing I am not looking forward to is that single button mouse!

      I was playing around with an iMac at the computer store this weekend, and the weird mouse is gonna take a while to get used to vs the two button mouse with the mouse wheel...

      ~Dexx
      Since this topic seems to have gone off the rails, I'll pipe up

      The iMac's mouse is a two button mouse:

      Code:
      Two-button click
      
      Magic Mouse functions as a two-button mouse
      when you enable  Secondary Click in System 
      Preferences. Left-handed users can reassign
      left and right click, as well.
      Other two-button (and more!) mice work out of the box. This will be the least of your problems if you decide to switch.

      Back on topic.

      I used Vista since its launch up until I replaced it with Windows 7 (both x64). While it had its quirks, I thought it was a fine OS. It ran like a champ on my hardware and was very stable.

      I thought that the issue with Dragon was that something in their software didn't work on the 64-bit of Windows. Having been a Windows developer for 10 years in another life, I can tell you with 99% certainty that was the result of Dragon doing something that they weren't supposed to be doing. As CDarklock said, when newer versions of the OS come out and enforce the rules they've been warning about for years, that's when the **** hits the fan. Unfortunately Microsoft takes the heat for this, but it's not really their fault. (Hey, at least you get a reasonable notice unlike with that other OS that I use alongside my Windows 7 machines *cough*)

      I think it comes down to expectations. The secret is to make sure that all of your software is going to work *before* upgrading your OS. Anyone who lived through the switch from Windows 95 to an NT-based Windows OS, or had any dealings with OS/2 will tell you that.
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      • Profile picture of the author agc
        Originally Posted by AllAboutAction View Post

        Having been a Windows developer for 10 years in another life, I can tell you with 99% certainty that was the result of Dragon doing something that they weren't supposed to be doing.
        There are a great many things that simply AREN'T POSSIBLE if you do things the way you are "supposed to". The problem with the supposed to people is that they can't imagine a world larger than they one they provided for when they created it. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    The only thing I am not looking forward to is that single button mouse!

    I was playing around with an iMac at the computer store this weekend, and the weird mouse is gonna take a while to get used to vs the two button mouse with the mouse wheel...

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      The only thing I am not looking forward to is that single button mouse!

      I was playing around with an iMac at the computer store this weekend, and the weird mouse is gonna take a while to get used to vs the two button mouse with the mouse wheel...

      ~Dexx
      Hee hee..

      I feel that it's not a button. It's a single surface. It might just get difficult to get used to it for a few days, initially, then you'll find it difficult (and boring) to use any other mouse.

      Karan
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  • Profile picture of the author Teravel
    I used to be a fan of Windows, as I am a gamer at heart. A few years back, I discovered something that changed the way I look at computers. This wonderful and almost magical discovery was called Linux.
    I can hear your sigh already, but hear me out.
    Downloading Ubuntu is Free. Its simple. And get this... You never have to pay for programs like you do with Windows.
    I click my Ubuntu start button, I click Add/Remove programs. A list comes up showing me thousands of programs. These programs include everything from Accounting software to Web design programs. Im not talking low end programs that are hard to learn. If you can use Microsoft Money, you can easily use GnuCash.
    For all the Warriors out there that still use WYSIWYG web design programs, Kompozer was built specifically for Linux platforms! Want to change your .doc files into PDF's? OpenOffice was built for Linux platforms, and theres an 'Export to PDF' button under File. (Did I mention you can password protect them? You can also make it so the PDF cannot be printed or altered, which is protected by another password!)

    I'm not trying to sell you Ubuntu or any other Linux Operating System. Just letting you know how far Linux has come, and how Windows will not be the top dog forever. If you have an old PC sitting around, load it up and just give it a try.
    Oh, for the other gamers out there. I can smoothly run WoW, DDO, Eve, and 95% of the other top games out there.

    As for Windows Vista... I don't even concider it an Operating System anymore. There were so many bugs, errors, and flaws that I put it in the same pile as Windows ME. (remember that OS?? Neither do I.)

    ~Teravel
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    I'm loving Windows 7 (skipped Vista completely) but I've had to upgrade a lot of software, so it cost me more than the price of the computer. The end result is a much better operating system and the latest version of the software I use all the time, so that's not so bad. Figure it'll last me at least another 5-7 years, like the last laptop did.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    Nice threadjacking. Nobody asked "who loves vista like their own ugly baby?"

    Should we have the mods clean this one up, or just abandon it and start a new one for the original purpose?

    For me the single biggest expense in moving to Windows 7 is... TIME. MY TIME.

    Not time spent learning how to do new stuff. Rather, lots and lots and lots of time wasted trying to figure out how to do really basic crap that was working just fine in XP, but some marketing wonk w/ a focus group (ie painfully average people for painfully stupid interfaces) just abritrarily decided that, oh hey, you don't need to right click and create a new text file because we have a perfectly viable 26 click alternative you can use instead. Our focus group was scared of menus they don't understand, so we decided that in order to protect the morons of the world from self induced panic, we'll just hide all that nasty old productivity from everyone.

    Oh, and that quick launch bar you use so much? You know the only really productive way to get to the dozen or so things you need all the the time? Well, you don't need that anymore. Instead we'll give you some thumbtack the task bar tasks and pop up a cool preview in case you forgot what excel looks like, but oh, you'll have to minimize everything and go to the desktop to start a new program, unless you don't mind scrolling the freaking start menu in its new arbitrarily sized, non expandable, non hierarchal format, where you can't just scan the list visually without scrolling it.

    YEEEHA I just love a new Microsoft OS. I swear it's the only company where the Easter Eggs ARE the OS. Hey! Whats the secret key handshake my email? Do I wiggle my left ear or my right ear? Doh!

    On the upside, at least I'm gradually figuring out how to turn back on most of the useful stuff... things that a mac will never have. Things like RIGHT CLICKING for context sensitive options. In a couple days I'll at least be able to do useful work again.

    I may hate Microsoft, but I hate them slightly LESS than the mac and linux groupies. But that's because as a programmer I get to use the really good stuff that Microsoft does that _nobody_ else does right.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I dunno. I ran Vista 64 bit and I didn't have any issues going to W7 at all.

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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    Vista... The User Control Security feature is the most annoying and frustrating thing about that OS. I turned it off because the way I want to use my computer that feature just would not allow me to. When I upgraded to Windows 7, which was free for me, I also turned off the user control security thing. I do NOT need to be prompted to ask if I really want to do X action.

    The most dangerous thing that ever happened to me was I used a fairly common anti-virus securty suite that would LOCK files as they are created, accessed and deleted. It did this so it can scan for virus activity. The problem was that the AV software locked the file BEFORE, or During the OS saving the file which corrupted the file system and made it impossible to do anything. The file was corrupted and NOTHING would remove the file at that point. The entire operating system just locked up and I lost everything.

    I was able to piece a working version from multiple backups and got probably 85% of what I had before but once I eventually figured out what the root cause of the problem was I immediately turned that feature off in the security software, then uninstalled it. Paid for a competing software and turned off the same feature in that as well.

    The thing about Vista is that it was not created based on how people used XP. At least not from what I can tell. W7 just completely continued on with how MS thinks we should use a computer.

    From a user standpoint there are a lot of improvements but a lot of features from XP were completely removed. Luckily there are many 3rd party plugins created that reintroduce these or similar features. The quickstart menu is no more in W7 but there are applications you can install that actually allow you to create multiple quickstart type folders that are on the task bar. I have two placed on my task bar that collectively hold ALL the programs I use and arranges them better than the quick start folders in XP.

    I prefer W7 over XP now, with XP Mode the virtual XP Pro I can run Dragon v9 with no problem. I ended up paying for the W7 Ultimate Upgrade and getting it directly through the MS Upgrade Center it was cheaper than paying at the local store. Not sure if it was just a special price during the roll out of W7 or not, never looked at price again after I purchased the upgrade.

    For every downside to W7 when comparing to XP, there is a plugin, addon or 3rd party software that adds back the feature or made it much better in W7.

    I use W7 100% now and have actually moth balled my XP machine. When I was looking for my next computer I looked at the Macs, really did. Compared all the models and features but ended up going with a HP laptop with Vista at the time on it, and free upgrade to W7. Comparing power to power, feature to feature and what I want to do and how I work with my computers... a PC was optimal choice for myself.

    I ended up paying a 3rd of a similar level Mac offered and got a lot more power under the hood including more HD space. Apple had the opportunity to convert me but in the end I am just a PC type of guy.


    - T
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Terry Crim View Post

      When I upgraded to Windows 7, which was free for me, I also turned off the user control security thing. I do NOT need to be prompted to ask if I really want to do X action.
      There are a couple things about this.

      First, when you first start using a particular machine, you do a lot of stuff in the first month that you will never do again. These are exceptional things, so it's questionable whether you want to do them. After the first month or two, you won't see the prompts because you're not doing those things anymore... and when one of them pops up, it's because somewhere in the back of your machine, something is probably being naughty.

      It's unfortunate that UAC is such a pain in the arse when you start out, because most people go "dammit, this sucks" and turn it off. Then, four months down the road, some spyware or other shows up and runs roughshod over the whole operating system... and they start complaining "I thought this sort of thing wasn't supposed to happen on Vista."

      Second, the expert users really don't need UAC. But because we're such a tiny little minority of the population, and the rest of the world is pretty HURRR DURRRR about security, it has to be on by default. And one of the most irresponsible and dangerous things you can do is take one of those people and say "turn off UAC, it's a pain."

      Once you do that, this idiot is going to go out downloading goat porn and get some sort of Russian pig virus that adds his machine into a botnet, and all he ever does is say "man, Vista is so much slower than XP" while his machine merrily pumps millions of spam emails out over his internet connection.

      The problem was that the AV software locked the file BEFORE, or During the OS saving the file which corrupted the file system and made it impossible to do anything.
      Oh, if you only knew the things I could tell you about AV software and its vendors. These are the people who do the most to keep malware authors in business.

      "I'll pay you to keep foxes away from my house. And the more foxes I see trying to get into my house, the more you'll get paid."

      Hmm. How could that POSSIBLY go wrong? I mean, it's perfect, isn't it?

      The thing about Vista is that it was not created based on how people used XP.
      That was rather the point. Most people were using XP completely wrong, and when we said "don't do that" everybody said "if we're not supposed to do that, then don't let us do it."

      So we didn't. We locked everything down and shut everything off and took the hardline stance everyone demanded: this is not allowed, and we will no longer allow it.

      And everyone started bitching about how they couldn't do anything anymore. Can't be helped. You wanted hard rules with hard limits, you got them. It was a shock to the system, but honestly, the system is better off for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author agc
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        There are a couple things about this.
        First, when you first start using a particular machine, you do a lot of stuff in the first month that you will never do again.
        Actually, that's all stuff that you won't REMEMBER how to do when your machine takes the virus header and you have to start over. Or when you buy one for the kitchen and want it to work the same way as the one in your office.

        I keep all my data segregated off of my system disk. Well, I TRY to, but Microsoft clearly knows better than me. That's why it always defaults back to the c:\documents and settings\guaranteed to be lost with the next virus\folder to save my work.

        Oh, here's an even better one. I bought, B O U G H T Office 2007. I emphasize the word bought because I had it (legitimatley) free from work but I wanted to own my own copy for my little home network of machines.

        What do I get? "Sorry, you can't install that because you already have it on two computers." Um. Hey. Microsoft. Guess what? YOU SUCK! It's 2010, and really usable computers are like $300 now and I have a half dozen scattered around my house. Bedroom? check. Living room? check. Laptop at work? check. Small Laptop just because? check. Bathroom? No comment.

        So what do I get for actually buying office? Nothing but a headache. there's a reason I was still using Office 2000 in January 2010, and a reason I never went to Vista not even as a trial on one of my disposable machines, and it wasn't because of software, it was because of the phone home licensing issues. And it turns out I was RIGHT too. If there was an open source alternative to Excel that was actually viable, I'd never look back.

        Ok, here's another one from last night on my new W7 box (replacing my virus crashed XP box... no, Microsoft Wouldnt let me install the office 2007 I paid for, so I ended up installing the free copy from work SMDH). So I have my data drive. USB. 1GB. Everything on it is owned by my login. So on my new machine, same login name, every file on the drive is UNWRITABLE. I understand the binary ID means that fred <> fred, really I do. But I'm logged in as an ADMIN. So now a well known IM product from a WSO here, btw, one that immediately revalidated my license after the virus crash so I could install it on yet another computer where it promptly installed the latest version with some cool new functionality... (are you listening microsoft? are you?) Now IT can't write it's license file out, because W7 is refusing to honor the admin priv. EVEN when I run the app as ADMIN.

        I did the "take ownership" thing, with "apply to subdirectories". (Talk about an easter egg hunt. Try finding THAT one in the UI w/o googling). No luck.

        So it looks like an unexpected expense for me will be a new USB disk... just so I can copy my old data to get it "owned" by me. Then I'll have an extra 1GB spindle laying around. Or maybe I should waste 4 more hours trying to get W7 to honor my admin privs? Nah, the drive is cheaper than my time.

        I'm not really angry. Really. I promise. I'm just really frustrated that this is always way harder than it _should_ be.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by agc View Post

          What do I get? "Sorry, you can't install that because you already have it on two computers." Um. Hey. Microsoft. Guess what? YOU SUCK! It's 2010, and really usable computers are like $300 now and I have a half dozen scattered around my house. Bedroom? check. Living room? check. Laptop at work? check. Small Laptop just because? check. Bathroom? No comment.

          Now why would you think you can buy ONE license and think you can install it on as many computers as you want? I want to emphasize ONE because you purchased ONE license. If you want it on more computers than you need to purchase more licenses.

          Hello, this is standard licensing throughout the software industry and not Microsoft specific.
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          • Profile picture of the author agc
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Now why would you think you can buy ONE license and think you can install it on as many computers as you want? I want to emphasize ONE because you purchased ONE license. If you want it on more computers than you need to purchase more licenses.

            Hello, this is standard licensing throughout the software industry and not Microsoft specific.
            Hello, "standard" is one of those corporate buzz words designed to end discussion while advancing what is still just another opinion. Nice ploy.

            However, there are many "standards", not just the one you are presenting as universal.

            Ever heard of "per user pricing"?

            To imply that the entire universe of software licensing fits into your one dimensional idea of what is "standard" is... well...

            Anyhow, Avid for example, is per user, with a usb dongle. So is high end sign cutting software, and high end embroidery and pattern making software, and on and on.

            I could easily argue that what is "standard" is that software that's priced above some threshhold, like maybe $300 or so, is usually provided with a "portable" license so that the user is not hamstrung by outmoded notions of only using one computer.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by agc View Post

              Hello, "standard" is one of those corporate buzz words designed to end discussion while advancing what is still just another opinion. Nice ploy.

              However, there are many "standards", not just the one you are presenting as universal.

              Ever heard of "per user pricing"?

              To imply that the entire universe of software licensing fits into your one dimensional idea of what is "standard" is... well...

              Anyhow, Avid for example, is per user, with a usb dongle. So is high end sign cutting software, and high end embroidery and pattern making software, and on and on.

              I could easily argue that what is "standard" is that software that's priced above some threshhold, like maybe $300 or so, is usually provided with a "portable" license so that the user is not hamstrung by outmoded notions of only using one computer.

              Actually it is standard licensing and has been that way since my 15 plus years in the software industry.

              You can purchase a site license and that will take care of all your problems.

              Look at your major software providers. I love the fact you bring up products that are not mainstream like pattern making software to try and make a point.

              There really is no need to argue about what is standard when you should have read the licensing before you agreed to purchase.

              Now you can argue that you really didn't agree but installed anyway. :rolleyes: You agreed to the licensing but I am sure that was all corporate buzz and a ploy.
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              • Profile picture of the author agc
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                Actually it is standard licensing and has been that way since my 15 plus years in the software industry.
                It is A standard. It is not THE standard.

                Of course, almost everyone with 15 years in software is so drunk on their own kool aid that reasonable discussion is impossible. Which is how we get incredibly ironic statements like people telling us how we "should" use our computers.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by agc View Post

                  It is A standard. It is not THE standard.

                  Of course, almost everyone with 15 years in software is so drunk on their own kool aid that reasonable discussion is impossible. Which is how we get incredibly ironic statements like people telling us how we "should" use our computers.

                  The only one drinking the kool aid is you. I hope you have your tin foil hat on so the aliens can't find out what your thinking.

                  I am not telling you how you should use your computers but nice try at twisting the conversation. I can see you are wanting a reasonable discussion here.

                  I do find it ironic that you complain about being told how to use your computer but you want to tell software companies how to license their products.
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                  • Profile picture of the author agc
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    I do find it ironic that you complain about being told how to use your computer but you want to tell software companies how to license their products.
                    Microsoft Office 2007 Ultimate runs $650 (ballpark). Are you really going to claim that is it reasonable to expect me to pay that price 4 to 6 times just so I can use the software on whatever one of MY computers I happen to be sitting near?

                    Or it is possible, just possible, that $650 is enough to collect per person?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
                      Originally Posted by agc View Post

                      Microsoft Office 2007 Ultimate runs $650 (ballpark). Are you really going to claim that is it reasonable to expect me to pay that price 4 to 6 times just so I can use the software on whatever one of MY computers I happen to be sitting near?

                      Or it is possible, just possible, that $650 is enough to collect per person?
                      Have you ever heard of open office which does everything MS Office does + more and is 100% free?


                      Chris
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                      • Profile picture of the author agc
                        Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

                        Have you ever heard of open office which does everything MS Office does + more and is 100% free?
                        I tried it. It's not (yet) viable for me. I'm hoping it soon will be soon, maybe in a couple years before it's time for the next office upgrade.
                        Signature

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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by agc View Post

                      Microsoft Office 2007 Ultimate runs $650 (ballpark). Are you really going to claim that is it reasonable to expect me to pay that price 4 to 6 times just so I can use the software on whatever one of MY computers I happen to be sitting near?

                      Or it is possible, just possible, that $650 is enough to collect per person?
                      I think it is reasonable to charge whatever Microsoft wants. It is their products and they invest a lot of money into research and development.

                      I also think it is reasonable for you to charge what you want on your products.

                      How about this, why not just purchase a laptop and just move it to where you are.

                      I know it is 2010 and we should all have a computer setup at locations where we MIGHT work.

                      How about we cap how much you charge per person and designate how you sell your products.

                      If you don't like how Microsoft does business then don't purchase their products.

                      It really is that simple.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by agc View Post

                  It is A standard. It is not THE standard.

                  Of course, almost everyone with 15 years in software is so drunk on their own kool aid that reasonable discussion is impossible. Which is how we get incredibly ironic statements like people telling us how we "should" use our computers.
                  A standard or THE standard .. big freaking deal.
                  Did you happen to read A TOS or THE TOS when you purchased or did you just assume that it would be A standard instead of THE standard?
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  • Profile picture of the author VinceLaw
    I bought 2 cheap Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit upgrade DVDs from eBay. Apparently, they were from some HP laptop upgrade. I installed them on top of my Windows Vista and Windows XP. I am very happy with Windows 7.

    My XP based desktop computer had an issue with the latest version of my mainboard BIOS. The USB devices wouldn't work. I had to upgrade my BIOS because it supports a newer CPU I installed on it. On Windows 7, everything works fine.

    My Vista based laptop has some minor issues running Windows 7. It seems to slow down to a bit of a crawl when I plug in my USB hard drive. Once I turn my hard drive off and restart my Windows 7, it goes back to normal again. It is nice to be able to use more than 4 GB RAM. I also run eBoostr and it makes a slight difference in performance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    @ agc

    Have you not heard of Ebay and OEM software?


    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
    Microsoft completely lost me as a customer after purchasing my new laptop with Vista on it. They immediately came out with window seven shortly after releasing Vista.

    I respect him as a corporation, but I don't longer respect them asna product provider.

    this is just my opinion and everyone has a right to their own.

    ClinTonio
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

      Microsoft completely lost me as a customer after purchasing my new laptop with Vista on it. They immediately came out with window seven shortly after releasing Vista.

      I respect him as a corporation, but I don't longer respect them asna product provider.

      this is just my opinion and everyone has a right to their own.

      ClinTonio

      HAHA

      So it is Microsoft's fault because the laptop manufacturer put Vista on the machine.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        HAHA

        So it is Microsoft's fault because the laptop manufacturer put Vista on the machine.
        Thomas no it is not Microsoft's fault for the manufacture putting Vista on the machine. It is Microsoft's fault for putting out a real bad product with no apology/a free I'm sorry upgrade....

        Hope you can understand.

        ClinTonio
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

          Thomas no it is not Microsoft's fault for the manufacture putting Vista on the machine. It is Microsoft's fault for putting out a real bad product with no apology/a free I'm sorry upgrade....

          Hope you can understand.

          ClinTonio

          I never had a problem with Vista so I can't take your word that they put out a bad operating system.

          I do know from experience that when something is different it gets confused with bad. Maybe you just didn't put enough time into learning it.

          No matter what you say I have not had any more problems with my 4 or so years on Vista than I had on XP. I still use it today.

          The only thing this thread has shown me is people like to bitch about everything.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            I never had a problem with Vista so I can't take your word that they put out a bad operating system.

            Thomas,
            I do know from experience that when something is different it gets confused with bad. Maybe you just didn't put enough time into learning it.

            No matter what you say I have not had any more problems with my 4 or so years on Vista than I had on XP. I still use it today.

            The only thing this thread has shown me is people like to bitch about everything.
            I run a 64-bit Vista, the difference in our two experiences may be due to the fact that you are not running a 64-bit. But I can tell you that it is not due to my lack of understanding of operating system.

            I also hope no matter what I say it does not affect your operating system. I hope you continue to have a good experience with it.

            This thread should not show you that people like to complain rather that there may be in fact a valid issue with the quality of Microsoft's Windows Vista operating system.

            I do not believe the average entrepreneur which this forum is particularly comprised of enjoy to complain, in fact, they understand that it is a stressor upon their lives and their business, which could lead to self-destruction.

            ClinTonio
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

              I run a 64-bit Vista, the difference in our two experiences may be due to the fact that you are not running a 64-bit. But I can tell you that it is not due to my lack of understanding of operating system.



              ClinTonio

              How do you know I am not running 64 bit?
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              • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                How do you know I am not running 64 bit?
                I never said you were running a 64-bit my friend. If you would read closely you will be able to see that I use that particular phrasing "may be why"

                ClinTonio
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

                  I never said you were running a 64-bit my friend. If you would read closely you will be able to see that I use that particular phrasing "may be why"

                  ClinTonio
                  Ahh, gotcha.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post


              I do not believe the average entrepreneur which this forum is particularly comprised of enjoy to complain, in fact, they understand that it is a stressor upon their lives and their business, which could lead to self-destruction.

              ClinTonio

              I beg to differ but thanks for the laugh.

              People rant about everything here. Most of the things they complain about have nothing to do with their business or lack of.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                I beg to differ but thanks for the laugh.

                People rant about everything here. Most of the things they complain about have nothing to do with their business or lack of.
                I am not going to sit here and pretend like I know everything and tell you what I am saying is absolute, in fact, I will venture and say, you probably are right, while adding that this may not be filled with entrepreneurs, but instead it is mostly comprised of inspiring entrepreneurs. I might've been trying to slip in a little bit of a suggestion to the community.

                ClinTonio
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
      Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

      Microsoft completely lost me as a customer after purchasing my new laptop with Vista on it. They immediately came out with window seven shortly after releasing Vista.
      That is your fault for first not doing your research.

      Nor do you actually have to upgrade to Windows 7, plus you got Vista for free so what are you complaining about?


      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

          Free? Really? C'mon now.

          VISTA did work fine for me in the early months, but it gradually became unbearable. I would still have it if I felt I had a real choice.
          Dude seriously,

          before actually upgrading to Vista, did you or anybody else who had hardware and software problems even bother to read the system requirements and check that your computer hardware and software were compatible by visiting the manufacturers website? (I'm guessing not)

          Or did you just buy it blindly which is the impression I get from every person who bashes Vista. Quite frankly, I myself have only ever had 1 problem which was caused by an update which scrambled the registration information, which was easily solved by a simple system restore.

          Gotta start accepting responsibility for your actions.


          Chris
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          • Profile picture of the author Marty S
            Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

            Dude seriously,

            before actually upgrading to Vista, did you or anybody else who had hardware and software problems even bother to read the system requirements and check that your computer hardware and software were compatible by visiting the manufacturers website? (I'm guessing not)
            What exactly am I not being responsible for?

            If you read above, I actually installed the tool Microsoft says to run before upgrading. Otherwise not even sure what you are talking about, but it is clear you are in the minority of not having issues with VISTA.

            I actually like W7 much better and am satisfied with it so far. But keep in mind if VISTA wasn't such a market-wide failure as an OS, W7 would have been called VISTA 2.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
        Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

        That is your fault for first not doing your research.

        Nor do you actually have to upgrade to Windows 7, plus you got Vista for free so what are you complaining about?


        Chris
        Bless your hart lol you are mistaking for it is not in fact my fault that windows putout a bad OS.

        Who said that I did not do research?

        You pay for the OS as part of the package so you are mistaking in most of what you are saying.

        ClinTonio
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    • Profile picture of the author AllAboutAction
      Originally Posted by Tonio Smith View Post

      Microsoft completely lost me as a customer after purchasing my new laptop with Vista on it. They immediately came out with window seven shortly after releasing Vista.

      I respect him as a corporation, but I don't longer respect them asna product provider.

      this is just my opinion and everyone has a right to their own.

      ClinTonio
      You'd better stay away from Apple. They release new products too. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Tonio Smith
        Originally Posted by AllAboutAction View Post

        You'd better stay away from Apple. They release new products too. :rolleyes:
        "LOL funny"

        You misunderstand, that's ok I will help you understand...

        For me Its not about releasing new products but about releasing a bad one without a apology...

        Let me know if you need any more help friend

        ClinTonio
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  • Profile picture of the author VinceLaw
    I am not sure why people hate Vista so much. It worked OK for me after I turned off all the fancy effects to make it look and work more like XP. Windows 7 feels and works better than XP and Vista in my opinion but it would hard for me to point out why exactly. For me, it just works more intuitively.
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  • Profile picture of the author Online Bliss
    Wow, I really do not want to join this heated debate,
    however I am very happy with Windows 7
    and remember the times I had to do Video Editing with DOS.
    I am happy Microsoft does their best to put out a quality product.
    Yes I also have a Mac but software is much more costly.
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    You've got it Made
    with the Guy in the Shades!
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  • Profile picture of the author tholcomb
    Even though you may find difficulties with Windows 7 it is by far better than anything mac has to offer especially in the internet marketing business.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Isn't Yeti great?
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  • Profile picture of the author hisnibbs
    I got Vista "free" when I got my new machine and after about 5 minutes I switched off all the bells n whistles, stripped it down to the running boards and just left it alone. Never had a moments problem, yes I was that customer! Sure it took an age to boot, gave me time to brew the coffee. Yes it was slower than galacial erosion when video editing (despite 3GB of ram) and sure it ould throw it's toys waaaaay out of the pram if I tried to have more than 5 or 6 programmes running at the time (but then video editing, with photoshop and illustrator open too plus about 60 tabs in firefox and answering emails will do that sooner or later).

    BBut I never had too many problems but then I just installed all the progrmammes I needed and didn;t fiddle too much and didn't load/uninstall lots of freeware. But again I also think cheaper laptops produced different resutls. My Toshiba worked fine, the two acers we had with Vista, slow as heck and that was with 1 window of Firefox open, sure they had slower processors and less ram but not so bad that the difference was SOOO noticeable. Ended up upgrading the Acers to XP.

    But Windows 7 is my absolute fave OS of all time. I have Macs from G3/G4 and now iMac and Snow Leopard is good but I can;t beleieve I still have to drag the window to maximise it, Win 7 has all sorts of cool tricks to resize the windo inc. just to half of the screen by throwing the window the screen edge. Cost of my Win 7 upgrade was £55, as the upgrade disk has the full install on it.

    I think Microsoft has to realise that there days as "the only choice" is long gone and face up to the fact that most people don;t care what there machine runs on these days as long as it does what they want it too.

    It's like driving; no one cares how the petrol is produced they just wanna get from A to B.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW M/S gives out free software ONLY if it is REALLY limited, like the developer SQL SERVER, or a TRIAL!

    Betas, etc.. don't count since they may be trials, you are helping them out, there is risk, and/or you PAID to be on the list.

    OEM products, such as the "free" versions on computers cost microsoft PENNIES to produce and typically sell for $40+! The cost is included in the system it comes with. Some companies offer options and that becomes CLEAR! But it is AGAINST THE LAW to put an unlicensed M/S product on a computer. M/S sells the licenses. They also come with limited support. Do you REALLY think they say "Oh, you're dell? HERE, have a million licenses for FREE!"! ALSO, you are SUPPOSED to get a little manual, license certificate and, a fresh version(USUALLY on CD). SO, while it costs them LITTLE, there IS a cost.

    BTW VISTA DOES have problems. I ran software ranging in cost from about $10 to about $100,000(NO, I am NOT kidding, one hundred thousand dollars USD), that FAILED! HECK, one product that failed was a product made by CISCO, ever hear of THEM!?!?!?

    Steve
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