Am I right?

14 years ago

Thanks for the emails of support.

Thanks also for the offensive emails - I must be close to the truth (not that I ever doubted it)!

Thanks

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You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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Cherilyn Woodhouse

14 years ago

You've got me curious, but I don't watch videos. Too bad though, if it was written content I'd be all over checking it out.

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artwebster 14 years ago

Hi, Cherilyn,

I'm like you, I don't watch videos either but the written word doesn't get read either so - if you can't beat them - join them.
- Thanks
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You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!
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la dominatrix 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Woodhouse

You've got me curious, but I don't watch videos. Too bad though, if it was written content I'd be all over checking it out.

Me too but who has the patience to sit through a video
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Rich Struck

14 years ago

I feel the same way as you but honestly you come across as kind of angry and that makes the video hard to watch. I would suggest that instead of giving a thousand reasons why your product shouldn't be free, give people a thousand reasons why they should pay for it. It's a subtle difference but I think an important one.

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artwebster 14 years ago

Hi, Rich,

Maybe I come across as angry because I am.

There seems to be a conspiracy now to make as much as possible 'free' but to ensure that what is 'free' is so incomplete that it is necessary to buy a whole raft of other stuff to make it worthwhile having.

Products don't seem to be avaluated for their worth to the potential buyer any more - they seem to be seen simply as the key to the lock that is going to tie the unwary into a continuity programme or a series of expensive up-sells.

When did you last see anything offered (free or paid for) that did not immediately lead on to a peripheral offer that then went on to another offer and ended up in some mega-cost programme?

Many of these offers don't even pretend to be of long term duration - it seems that if you can get someone into your continuity programme for 3 or 4 months, you are doing well.

Even if I had nothing to offer, I would still look at the tiny circle of IM gurus and decry their constant revision of standard works and 'up-sells' to even more revisions. They are perpetuating a circle of deceit that is designed to produce short term gain for the few and long term disillusionment for the many.

A few well known people have claimed to be trying to clear the crap from the marketing world but even that seems to be yet another marketing ploy.

What causes most pain for wannabe internet marketers is the amount of duplication in basic premises that they purchase because the publicity and hype makes identical products sound so unique.

Still, what do I know? I can only judge what I see - being half blind, maybe I should be banned from holding or expressing an opinion?.
- Thanks
Signature

You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!
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JayXtreme

14 years ago

Self pity and moaning are two very annoying traits in anybody...

I couldn't watch much of the video. Made me feel a little bit sick.

Personally,

I'm bored of people moaning about other marketers actions.

If you don't like what they do, don't watch.

The little red X in the top corner of the browser is your friend.

Art,

I do happen to like your input in the forum, occasionally. But you have this real anger management issue thing going on..... that makes me cringe at most of your "rants".

They're not even rants, you're just whining for the sake of it.

I wish you well, Art, I really do.

Take some time to breathe, smell the fresh air. Listen to the birds outside. Appreciating the little things in life makes the big stuff seem trivial...

Have a great weekend!

Peace

Jay

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Bare Murkage.........

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artwebster 14 years ago

Hi, Jay,

Anger management is not my problem.

My problem is looking round at the system that is designed to ensure that the new guys fail. I am not an internet marketer, I am a Certified Accountant and what i see in the way the 'gurus' act is the sort of protectionist ring that has been outlawed in legitimate businesses for some time. The guru cartels control the IM underworld and ensure that the numbers of successful IMers is retained at manageable levels.

98% of IM wannabes fail, that is the commonly accepted wisdom - is there any wonder?
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2102559].message }}
- JayXtreme 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by artwebster
  
  looking round at the system that is designed to ensure that the new guys fail.
  
  ?...
  
  Art,
  
  You cannot be serious here.
  
  For the sake of this discussion. I will concede that there is a "system", just so we can have a reference point.
  
  If the system is set up in any way, it is set up massively in favour of the n00b.
  
  The system is designed for perfection. Succeeding at selling stuff online is much, much, much easier than it was before.
  
  With the plethora of step by step guides, video courses and free information... the n00b of 2010 era has everything on a plate right in front of him...
  
  It's not the system that is designed to ensure that the new guys fail... it's the n00bs that are designed to ensure that they fail.
  
  Our society breeds this kind of failure.
  
  I don't sell in the I.M. niche any more. But I certainly applaud those who can navigate this niche and be happy. Any products and information I have put out in this niche, have been greatly received and successful, but you know what?... Some people just aren't ready to apply the successful stuff you hand to them. And that makes me hurt inside.
  
  Making money online saved my life, literally. And when I see people talk about failing with I.M. and giving up, and claiming it's all a scam... Well, I just can't help but think that those people have already made their choice.
  
  Circumstances outside of my control ruined my life.... but I made a choice to change what I could control.
  
  Sure, there are thousands of people ripping off the n00bs in this niche, but they're not what we're discussing here. The real teachers in this niche are going above and beyond in providing n00bs with enough information to make them rich.
  
  Filthy, stinking rich, Art.
  
  Seriously... some of the stuff taught in this niche, has been making people millions upon millions of pounds for years now. And this information is now being shared in abundance.
  
  It's not the system, Art.. it's the n00bs. And not all of them.. just the ones who choose to fail.
  
  It's a choice.
  
  Peace
  
  Jay
  
  [ 2 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Bare Murkage.........
  
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Andyhenry

14 years ago

Hey Art,

I can understand your perspective but I'm going to have to agree with Jay on this (Sorry Jay, I know it's boring when we agree

)

There are people who think marketing is something you use on people and will therefore pull any 'trick' they can to part people with their money - however we're not all like that and thinking everyone is or focusing on those that do is a good way to put the brakes on your own forward momentum.

Andy

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nothing to see here.

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JayXtreme 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

(Sorry Jay, I know it's boring when we agree )

It's actually quite pleasant... lol.

It's nice to have a good debate, too, though.

Have a GREAT weekend, Andy!.

Peace

Jay
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- artwebster 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JayXtreme
  
  It's actually quite pleasant... lol.
  
  It's nice to have a good debate, too, though.
  
  Jay
  
  Yes - it is good to have a good debate but how can a debate take place when there is such a polarisation of opinions?
  
  I get the impression that many internet marketers who feel that they might be on the verge of becoming moderately successful are terrified to behave in any way contrary to accepted norms in case they find themselves being swept towards the gathering vortex at the drainage point.
  
  My opinions are not new but the anonymous support I get does seem to indicate the level of intimidation that many wannabe marketers feel.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
  Build it, make money, then build some more
  Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!
  
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artwebster

14 years ago

Hi, Andy,

There is nothing wrong with marketing.

The problem lies within the rigid control that is exercised over the IM scene by a very small guru élite. I am fortunate in that IM is not my life - it is the muddy pool into which I occasionally allow my gaze to fall.

The trouble is that there is such a desperate need for everybody to 'fit in' that nobody thinks any more. They have become the brain dead audience at the stultifyingly boring show where they obey the signs that tell them when to applaud, laugh or hoot in derision. (Sorry, since only the 'positive' is allowed, they are only told when to applaud).

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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Andyhenry

14 years ago

Originally Posted by artwebster

Hi, Andy,

There is nothing wrong with marketing.

The problem lies within the rigid control that is exercised over the IM scene by a very small guru élite. I am fortunate in that IM is not my life - it is the muddy pool into which I occasionally allow my gaze to fall.

The trouble is that there is such a desperate need for everybody to 'fit in' that nobody thinks any more. They have become the brain dead audience at the stultifyingly boring show where they obey the signs that tell them when to applaud, laugh or hoot in derision. (Sorry, since only the 'positive' is allowed, they are only told when to applaud).

I think the situation must be in the eye of the beholder as I don't see things being like this at all.

I'm not saying there aren't people like that - there are, but why focus on those people and not the ones who share a similar mindset with you and do business in a way you support?

This is why I don't watch what others are doing as a general rule. I miss most of the big launches because I understand the mechanics behind them and they're focused on doing business in a different way to me.

However, I've had the pleasure of working with and making money with many really great people online who are genuine, ethical, honest and offer real value aimed at helping real people.

I don't see the bad stuff because it's on a wavelength that rarely shows up on my radar.

The same as when I don't read threads here that have a negative headline. I'm not saying they don't happen - but I don't see them because I filter them out before I give them any time.

I think looking at what's bad will have a worse impact on you than anything those people actually have the power to do on their own.

They say you get what you focus on - if you focus on negativity - you'll just attract more. Life's too short.

As for behaving in any sort of 'accepted' norms - I think you'll find that most of the successful warriors here do exactly that. I've been known to argue with many respected warriors here over the years - just because I think the point being discussed is more important than any persons perspective on it.

The only really objectionable behaviour is violent or aggressive - but people do seem to jump into schools of thought and for every person who thinks there are cliques here, there are others who think it's completely open and friendly.

Andy

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nothing to see here.

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artwebster

14 years ago

Hi, again, Andy,

It is so easy to sail around the world using radar to avoid those little trouble spots like rocks and the occasional island that could cause problems for you.

In your aim to circumnavigate the globe, avoiding such nasties is a measure of your competence.

Life is a mélange of good, bad and indifferent and it is my intention to extract the maximum benefit from all of them. If all I wanted to do was to have a quiet life with nothing threatening to either rock my boat or upset my belief systems, I too would insulate myself from the world around me.

When I see a situation that I feel is not for the common good, I will speak out against it and clearly indicate any personal aspects that might explain or magnify my antipathy - just in case my own concerns are colouring the situation in hues it does not merit.

Far too many people are far too happy to believe that they live in isolation and that it will never happen to them because they are too insulated against it.

I simply try to raise awareness and make the odd conscience itch a little.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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Tom B Banned 14 years ago

Art, Art, Art...

I do like some of your posts until the conspiracy theories and rants come out.

Honestly, I see these types of posts as a way of putting blame on others for your failures.

How can you succeed when all the gurus are out to get you?

Yet there are a lot of noobs succeeding. Strange how they are doing it but you are not.

I assure you that you are way smarter than most of them. Maybe that is why?
- Thanks
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Andyhenry

14 years ago

Originally Posted by artwebster

Far too many people are far too happy to believe that they live in isolation and that it will never happen to them because they are too insulated against it.

I simply try to raise awareness and make the odd conscience itch a little.

Hey Art,

I actually believe this is true.

We all live in the world which we create for ourselves. Those worlds are different for each of us and I'm sure it's difficult for some people to see outside of their world and appreciate the ones that others live in.

Your comment does explain your negativity though - you think that it's for the greater good.

That's a commendable rationale and the reason why I'm not going to argue with you on something we obviously see differently.

Just remember that you ultimately have zero ability to control other peoples world - they own it and control it.

I'm sure there's some overlap in our perspectives on some aspects, but I fundamentally believe that any attention you give to negativity feeds it rather than combats it, so I can't join your crusade in the way you're conducting it.

So, for my part I'll focus on helping people who see opportunity and success get closer to their version of it and enjoy the ride along the way.

I'm sure you understand that I wish you well and hope that at some point you are able to find a way to remove the negativity from your approach and still help the people you're looking to help.

Andy

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nothing to see here.

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Shaun OReilly 14 years ago

I watched the video in full and noticed that you've spent
the majority of time focusing on what doesn't work and
what's wrong with the system at present.

If you focus on what doesn't work, you'll just get more
of what doesn't work in your life.

Change your focus.

Focus on what does work and what's good about a situation.

There's good and bad in every situation (and in every person)
and it's up to choose to what to focus your attention on.

Regarding giving away information for free etc, it's important
to know how to give away information strategically so that
you don't give away the farm in the process.

For example you could share with people what they need to
do to begin to make progress and then sell them the specific
information on how to do it all the way through to completion.

I've been strategically giving away high value information to
grow my businesses since 2003 and it works for me and many,
many others.

Maybe examine your own paradigms to see if they match up
with reality.

Hint: If you're struggling then it's usually a sign to change
things.

As Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev says, "If the right things aren't
happening for you, then obviously you're not doing the right
things."

(He's a spiritual guru, not a fake Internet one!).

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun
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artwebster

14 years ago

Thanks for all the replies - both here and by email.

People who have read much of what I write will know that I do not subscribe to the 'negative' theories of development. It is a simple and incontrovertable fact that the most effective power for creation is what is so loosely termed as 'the negative'.

It is the realisation of the negative (that which is not there) that creates within people the urge to create the answer to the question posed by the negation.

I know there are hordes of scientists who spend their whole lives inventing stuff like candles, wheels, paper, internal combustion engines and so forth because it is so 'negative' of them to try to invent something that currently does not exist. Indeed, to read some of the various 'positive thinking' pamphlets, it is a most heinous crime to even consider accepting that you need something. If you were properly positive, so the law goes, that which you need will manifest itself before you just as you begin to suspect that you might need it.

I'm a very simple sort of bloke and I have a simple way of looking at things. Just in case I am seeing things incorrectly, I will publish what I think in the hope and expectation that rational argument and reasonable discussion will help to shape my views into a more acceptable (realistic) profile.

Thanks
1 reply

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You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by artwebster

Hi, Jay,

Anger management is not my problem.

My problem is looking round at the system that is designed to ensure that the new guys fail. I am not an internet marketer, I am a Certified Accountant and what i see in the way the 'gurus' act is the sort of protectionist ring that has been outlawed in legitimate businesses for some time. The guru cartels control the IM underworld and ensure that the numbers of successful IMers is retained at manageable levels.

98% of IM wannabes fail, that is the commonly accepted wisdom - is there any wonder?

Hey Art,

I think the problem is, you're looking at this industry through the eye of a needle. This forum, "the gurus" and any associated products, are a mere microcosm of the online marketing landscape.

I mean, you can have a global presence in this industry, but never show up on the radar of many authoritative marketing bodies. (for example, how many times do you see Frank Kern in Marketing Sherpa?)

I think too many people are looking at internet marketing like it's a round table of known entities, all pals.

The truth is, the internet is so huge, as is the world that feeds it, that it's impossible to lump, paint and brush with one broad stroke like this.

Sure, there's "gurus". Yes, there's people who launch Clickbank products and operate within a JV network...and don't offer value, despite their self proclaimed "guru" titles.

But again, these small group of people aren't even a blip on the global scale of online marketing.

I think you may need to move away from these people, and explore what's really out there.

P.S - the reason why 98% of people fail is based on numerous reasons, with a crappy product only being one of many.

Other reasons would be:

- Laziness
- Inability to concentrate
- Lack of time/energy
- Lack of money
- No self discipline
- Unable to connect with the learning style
- No true desire or motivation

...I could go on, for a while.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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artwebster

14 years ago

Nick, you are quite right except that I am not looking at this industry through the eye of a needle - I am looking at it through the wide aperture created by the email blasts of wannabes who fill my in boxes with worthless drivel.

I long for the day I see something that I do not already have from an earlier edition.

Even more, I long to see a little more honesty. I am quite sure that not many of the writers of emails I receive have really 'twisted the arm of their good friend' - if they had, I think all these emails might have a shred of originality about them.

Still, I have my opinion, some support me and some don't - I just wish more would respond with a little more than knee-jerks and platitudes.

Thanks
1 reply

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You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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DeadGuy

14 years ago

Wow! I can only comment on the "... anything of value should be given away for free." Yes, it is customary in IM to offer companion freebies, but anything of real value should, in fact be sold.

The freebie concept was "borrowed", I believe, from Ronco Popeil. They hit on that business model over 40 years ago, and it worked for them to the tune of over $2 billion. The point that most IM'ers seem to miss is that in order for this concept to work, the customers must be overwhelmingly convinced that the value of the product being sold needs to greatly exceed the purchase price.

With many of the IM launches that I've seen, feeble attempts have been made at actually selling the core product (because there isn't any true value there) and the focus shifts to the supposed value of the giveaway items. Bad business, in my opinion.

Customers will always desire high quality and high value products. Anything else is smoke and mirrors.

Thanks
1 reply

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You are making this work at home stuff way harder than it is. Ready for some sanity? Clear your head and start over.

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ContentArticleWriter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by artwebster

Hi, Cherilyn,

I'm like you, I don't watch videos either but the written word doesn't get read either so - if you can't beat them - join them.

Well, I guess it may be true to some extent. But as I writer, I have to come out in defense of the use of words, grammar, and yes THE KEYBOARD. I think that videos have been overhyped and has made them lose the original point. So, I personally rather read a book and paint the picture in my head, than watch a movie about that book and have someone else make me believe what he thought the picture should look like.

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Self pity and moaning are two very annoying traits in anybody...

I couldn't watch much of the video. Made me feel a little bit sick.

Personally,

I'm bored of people moaning about other marketers actions.

If you don't like what they do, don't watch.

The little red X in the top corner of the browser is your friend.

Art,

I do happen to like your input in the forum, occasionally. But you have this real anger management issue thing going on..... that makes me cringe at most of your "rants".

They're not even rants, you're just whining for the sake of it.

I wish you well, Art, I really do.

Take some time to breathe, smell the fresh air. Listen to the birds outside. Appreciating the little things in life makes the big stuff seem trivial...

Have a great weekend!

Peace

Jay

LOL... I often wonder why people like Art open threads just for ranting. Is it for the sake of it like you say Jay? I mean, sometimes the rants are justifiable, but in this case, I like you could not get through the video. I did exactly what you mentioned, pressed the little red "x" that closed the browser...:rolleyes:

Thanks

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