What if all the Offline WSO’s have it all wrong?

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Look I'm posting this directly in the forum because I believe all the Offline WSO's have it all wrong. I currently run four offline businesses in the Atlanta area, and most of the approaches I see in the Offline WSO's wouldn't get past the first 3 second sniff test. As someone on both sides of the fence I can see that. I have my own offline clients, and I have my own offline businesses, it gives me a unique perspective.

My problem with most marketing for offline consultants is it's all wrong. First off you're trying to blast through a door that is being pounded on by 20 different people a day. Do you know in one of my businesses I get at minimum 4 emails a day, and a few phone calls a week? "Let me get you traffic, let me get you to #1, let me get you business, let me put you to the top of Google, over and over again, ad infinitum. "

There's an easier way.

There's a smarter way.

There's a faster way.

It just takes a little more work and isn't quite as direct. Instead of ROI, you need more COI.

You need to cultivate Centers Of Influence.

That's where the real money is at. See the problem with talking to Bob the dentist, is Bob is getting hammered from all sides. Did anyone know that Dentists are one of the most marketed professions out there? These "gurus" aren't telling you that are they? They literally get as many marketing calls/letters/emails as they get genuine contacts from people who want to give them money. But let's imagine that somehow you break through Bob's castle and get to talk to him, and magically get him as a client. Then what? You get to repeat the process all over again. Now you get to find Dennis the Dentist, and try to break down his castle walls too. Sound like fun to you?

There's an easier way. It's called using Centers Of Influence. There are people out there right now who have access to all your perfect clients. Think about all the different B2B people out there who have a rolodex that if you could get your grubby little fingers on it for ten minutes you could make a million dollars. There are accountants, bookkeepers, computer consultants, sign shops, attorneys, copier companies, etc.

Instead of sending out 100 letters/emails/phone calls to one off clients, you're a heck of a lot better off working with 100 Centers Of Influence who can send 1,000 businesses to you if you can get them to work with you.

I kind of stumbled into this in one of my offline businesses. I got this one client, a really friendly lady who did business with us. And over the next year, I kept running into people she had referred to us. I can directly attribute over $5,000 in business to just this woman and her contacts. Now how could I find more of her? And that's when it hit me, there are already people out there who know hundreds of my ideal clients, I just have to put the right deal in front of them.

Here's an example, I like to work with sign shops to partner with them to create websites. I went around to each sign shop and met the owner in person. I showed them a portfolio of the sites we have done, and told him it was quite simple, if they ask one simple question at the end of every order they take, they can make between $200 and $1,000. That question was "Thanks for your sign order, I just have a quick question, "Are you happy with your current website? " 90% of people will not say yes. Just hand them one of our cards, and tell them "You need to call Marcos, he does incredible work at great prices, just tell him that Sandy said to call". And for that they make 20% of any order that we get from that simple 10 second question. My average website design runs between $1,000 and $10,000. So oftentimes they can make more from the site I make than they made in the original transaction. There so happens to be around 300 sign shops in my area. Can you imagine if even half of them asked that question a few times a day? I wouldn't be able to keep up with the business.

This works because it's a fairly related transaction. The person is buying a sign for their business, they are looking to attract more business. It's not a very far jump to getting a website, or getting SEO, or listed in Google Maps, etc. It's not the same as getting your hair dresser to recommend you to everyone who gets a haircut on Tuesdays.

It's a heck of a lot easier than going around trying to find the exact prospect who needs you right now and happens to have the money. And trying to rank for web design in most cities is ridiculous, most of those guys have 1,000's of websites linked to them and it's insane trying to catch up.

Here's my point it's a lot of work getting someone to "buy into" what you're doing. Doesn't it make more sense if you're going to exert that influence to do it when the chance for payback is 10-20-100 times what you could get off of just one client.

Anyway, it's just an idea. I'd rather have 10 people out there drumming me up business than 10 people who want what I have right now.

Hope this helps.

Marcos

P.S.- I mean no disrespect to all the offline WSO sellers. I just think there are easier ways to get things done.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #consultant #how-to #marketing #offline #wrong #wso’s
  • Hi,

    Good points you make there.

    Being the first Warrior to run a WSO on offline sales I'll say this, I know my way worked because I lived it.

    I think many of the other Warriors who do offline sales also have success with their methods.

    And I'm sure what you say works too.

    The point is. ALL methods work if people work them. Whose is best? MINE for me that is. And YOURS is best for you.

    George Wright
    • [2] replies
    • The first WSO this time around or the last time the offline hype hit a few years ago(sadly I lost my login from that period somehow).

      I wouldn't say others methods are really "wrong" so much as they are inefficient. I guess that would more accurately place my beliefs. I guess I've been spending too much time in the WSO forum and I got too hypey(is that even a word?)

      Green Eggs and Ham George I am. Green Eggs and Ham.
    • Hi Marcos,

      The points you make are valid, but as George says what works for you may not work so well for others. Relying solely on referals, even if you are paying for that referal, may not always work (for everybody) simply because people are always in a hurry, or too busy.

      Many times I've had clients tell me that they have referred such and such because they are so pleased with the work I have done for them, but nothing has come of it. In my mind having a mix of methods, as outlined in WSO's is better than just relying on one method alone.

      Cheers

      Tim
  • I wouldn't agree the "other ways" are all wrong, but I do think you presented a very viable and creative alternative. It might well even be a better way, but that doesn't make other ways wrong. Different things work for different people at different places. I seriously doubt if business owners in my little community are being hammered by offline marketing consultants or services.

    Other than that minor point, kudos to you for a great post! It's always nice to see someone add value to the forum with good ideas.
  • You're right, it's a great way to get a lot of business. It's also the same way I do a lot (not all) of my business and it's great if you're looking for volume.

    But... think about this for a minute... how did that accountant get his huge list of clients?

    Wouldn't it be even better if YOU were the center of influence?
    • Good - find the projects, work with one client at a time and don't bother about a long term strategy
    • Better - have other people find the projects, work with those clients and enjoy the benefits of volume
    • Best - be the one that everyone else wants to work with, both the "buyers" and the "sellers"

    It's easy to go for "the best" once you've figured out what it will take to get you there
  • I'm in an enviable position to have a list of 275,000 businesses in 30 markets, that have done business with my referring partner for the past 30 years.

    Whenever they start talking online marketing with one of the partner's sales reps, we get a referral.

    I don't think I've made an outbound marketing call in 15 years.

    So I'm pretty sure I don't have it wrong in my WSO, which is a core strategy upon which I've built a multi-million dollar business.



    BTW... if you're asking someone if they're "happy with their website", the focus is completely wrong -- meaning it's on the specific tool at the tactical level. The website is irrelevant as a tool in the overall, larger function of business, which is that of LEAD GENERATION.

    So the question is properly framed, "are you satisfied that your web strategy is delivering the kind of lead activity you're expecting for the effort? Let me show you a better approach to developing your pipeline."

    Selling at the strategic level of a business is "where the money is at". Meaning, selling lead generation systems that have far more to do with the business process than just hanging a website on the front puts you in a position of lasting relationship with the client.

    And no, a website sale isn't necessarily all that related to a sign sale unless your contextual reference is about 1997 and your focus is on the tool vs. what the tool is used for in context of the overall business process.

    We used to "sell websites" when the market demand was great and the supply of quality developers was low in proportion to the demand.

    Now we sell lead generation systems, which is far more than just a website.
    • [ 6 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • You're right, but you have to keep in mind, it's not me who's asking the question. I have to get the owner to get his $10 an hour people to ask this every single time. It can't be more than just 4-5 words or trust me they'll screw it up. And even this short little blurb is usually screwed up.

      For instance one of the companies I work with really screwed it up for me. They got confused with the percentage they were getting, and told the "clients" that they were getting a website for $200. So again it has to be simple and fool proof. That's what has worked for me in this instance, I have other examples that work even better.

      If you were to look at my business card it clearly states I'm a business strategist specializing in Internet Marketing. I'm not a website designer you can hire those for $20-30 an hour.

      A true internet strategy can be many things. It's most definitely lead gen. And not just lead gen in the sense of websites. But oftentimes we'll JV different customers together. Do cross promotions, design direct mail campaigns, rewrite yellow pages ads, etc.

      Obviously who cares how beautiful their website is, it's all about how much business they get in the door. Who cares how many hits? I want to know how many dollars.

      I want feet in the door thinking they are getting a new website but who are about to get their whole business redesigned from the ground up.

      Thanks for your input.

      Marcos
      • [1] reply
  • I'm going to call this one the Eli Gold method. I don't think it's quite as easy as made out here.

    Marcos Romero - why do you think no Offline products have included this idea - mine have - but it takes work to get there and as Michael and George said, other methods do work.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      I don't know if I'd say they have it wrong, but I WILL SAY that most new offline marketers are probably completely naive. Like you say, as an offline business owner, I get TONS of calls/walk-ins every day. Everyone is suspicious of what you're selling so some marketer saying "How would you like to explode your online sales", would probably get a response like "I don't, thanks for stopping by though".

      Seriously, those are the responses you can expect. The only way to do it the old fashion way is what Chet Holmes calls "Pig Headed Discipline & Determination".

      But like you say, every other industry that sells relies on COI's. And those are the easiest leads. Even if you need to go to the Chamber of commerce and give away 3 free site redesigns and rely on referrals from those people.
  • I'm surprised that you've bought all of the offline wso's to compare what they're saying.

    I teach people how to work with offline clients but I haven't run a WSO about it and I haven't bought all the ones that are running.

    I've found that many of the current WSOs on this subject are being run by people with very little experience and it's become another one of those things people are looking to jump on because there's interest in the forum.

    The reason I haven't run a wso for a 'how to' in this niche is because there's not really much that needs saying. It's basically just common sense and customer focus.

    You don't need to buy a product to know that businesses get marketed to all the time and that relationships are important.

    I've never made a single cold call or advert for this type of business and I get more than I can handle.

    Yes, I could sell how I do it as a wso but I've said the same information many times here for free.

    If you take your business seriously and want to make money helping offline businesses all it takes is the same as anyone would do if they were starting a home business selling jam - create your brand, be clear about what you offer and then just keep telling people who you think would benefit.

    You don't need some flashy marketing campaign or secret sales techniques. There are no secrets.

    As with many IM things - you can decide which way you want to do business based on your preferences, experience and goals.

    You can either do it by advertising and deal with people purely on the telephone, or you can go out and speak to people and never advertise at all - either way you can create a great income.

    You can do it yourself - or you can outsource things. Either way you can be successful.

    There are no rules.

    To say all WSOs have it wrong is inaccurate at best and ignorant and false at worst.

    If something works for someone within the context of their goals - it being different to how you do it doesn't make it wrong.

    I only work with people I know/like/respect. I generally only take work from people who come to me from referrals. I have no interest in jumping through hoops to convince strangers that I can help them. This works for me. It's completely different to how most people do things - but that doesn't make it wrong, or right. It's just the way I currently do things.

    There is no right or wrong way - we all get to choose how we do business.

    You'd think that it's highly unlikely that anyone is actually going to rely on someone else to tell them how to run their business, but in IM this in surprisingly common and I imagine that a lot of people are buying these WSOs because they've been led to believe that there's some secret to it and that they can't do it alone or easily and want to be told what to do.

    It's just a case of people doing what fits their goals.

    I have no interest in telling people to do what I do, and I also have no interest in other people telling me what I should do - so that works fine.

    The problems only come when you want people to agree with your perspective and you have a need to make them think differently.

    I'd like to think that most people are intelligent enough to realise that someone selling a solution has more motivation than just to help them - they're trying to make money from sharing information and sometimes they'll create information to feed that system. This is why we so often see 'secrets' being offered - because if your business model requires that you sell information which is not needed or is freely available elsewhere you need to come up with a way to convince your prospect that they need to pay for it.

    Some people won't follow advice they haven't paid for, so we end up with this diverse situation where many people will happily pay for information that is free elsewhere, and many people will sell information they would normally give away for free - because they know some people will pay.

    It makes for a confusing situation for people just looking for help.

    I think your advice about tapping into people who have access to your target market is fundamentally sound advice and has been the bedrock of basic marketing advice given here many times.

    Andy
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • Andy you just spilled all the beans. 'Nuff said.
    • [1] reply
    • I've spent so far about $3,000 on offline WSO's in the past year or so. A small pittance really. There's almost always a seed of wisdom in each WSO I buy even if I don't believe most of the authors have done what they said they have done. I buy everything because I can usually take a little bit here and a little bit there and add something to my marketing here and there.

      The way I look at it, theres' only so much time in the day. If I'm going to expend a ton of energy attracting a new client, I want it to pay me over and over and over again.

      Compare and contrast what most newbies are doing on here. They read these WSO's and start sending emails and letters to all the cosmetic surgeons, and dentists out there. After all, that's where the money is, right? So it gets lost in all the shuffle of all the other marketing they are getting. And they usually give up.

      Instead I take that same energy and I market to the B2B centers of influence that I've identified. It's a lot less work. They aren't getting inundated with marketing messages. And it's easy to get access to them. I can usually walk in and see the owner of a sign shop pretty easily. How easy do you think it is to walk in and see a cosmetic surgeon?

      So, that's the first part of what I'm saying, it's easier to get access to the my centers of influence than it would be to my high money potential clients. Yes, there are some clients who can and will pay more than others, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should be chasing those clients until we can get them to chase us.

      The second aspect of it is that the payoff is much greater with a center of influence than a one off client. I get access to a steady stream of clientele. For instance with one of my centers of influence, I'm actually helping him to build his business by instituting an email marketing campaign that he happens to be paying me for. But I cut him a discount because I write "guest columns" in each article I send out. He's happy, he's making more money. I'm happy as I'm getting back door access to a customer database of around 3,000 names. As long as I don't damage the relationship with any of his clients, and I bring him in more money than he's spending with me(which I am), we're golden.

      Let me tell you a story. This story is about a guy named Sean. Sean works in a Paint Center(one of the one's that all the contractors go to get their paint). Sean has long blond hair half way down his back, about 12 visible body piercings, and full sleeve tattoos. He's a pothead who is usually stoned while working(I guess the owners don't care) I was actually in the store getting some paint myself and I watched him interact with the customers, he knew EVERYONE in the business and all the dirt. Here's a guy making at best $25k a year, and he's literally sitting on millions of dollars of business. I've got him now acting as a bird-dog for me, and he talks to all of these guys about me. My biggest problem was I could only really work on a handful of the people he referred to me as I didn't want it to be conflict of interest. There literally is probably a million dollars in billable business a year I could build just from his connections. You find 'em where you find 'em.

      Just some food for thought.

      Marcos
  • I think it's just a case of different things suiting different people.

    There are those who go to Clickbank and pick a product to promote as the way they start their business. There are those who find high paying PPC keywords as the focus of their business.

    I haven't spent as much as you on these offline WSOs, but then again I only bought the ones I did to support the warriors rather than because I wanted them to tell me how to run my business, so the content of their wso was pretty much irrelevant for me.

    Some people like to be busy doing something they enjoy that makes less than chasing the money and doing something they don't enjoy - so we're bound to have different preferences for our business models.

    If what you're doing suits you and works for you - good for you. It doesn't mean everyone else is wrong - whatever they're doing.

    You want to leverage a pothead to get your clients - that's fine, good for you. I don't tend to work with strangers. I'm sure that's a massive limitation financially, but then again it's my business and I do nicely with it and the future's looking even better all the time, so I wouldn't be interested in trying to copy someone else's business model.

    It's all good.

    Andy
    • [2] replies
    • I think this concept is simply called referrals, isn't it? And it is something that all of us who market offline try to cultivate. I do agree with what you have written, but I do take exception to ...

      "Anyway, it's just an idea. I'd rather have 10 people out there drumming me up business than 10 people who want what I have right now."

      Customers with a true need and cash in hand are a huge motivating factor. So I would move these to the head of the line, IMHO. And it certainly would be hoped that "10 people drumming up business for me" would turn into 100 customers with a need and cash. Isn't that the endgame after all?
      • [1] reply
    • I pretty much was looking to invite discussion. Obviously they don't all have it wrong, statistically it's impossible. Interesting that you're focused on that part of my post not in the method I have described.

      Now you have to understand that what I've described is just a tiny part of what I'm doing. I couldn't describe it all if I wanted to(which I don't ). For instance I have 4 salespeople I hired over the past two months who are "testing" different methodologies for getting clients, most of it synthesis of many different things I've learned here and from people like Jay Abraham/Dan Kennedy/Michael Gerber. Mostly what I do though is go after business from every avenue that I can get to. I just tend not to market directly to anyone who I feel can't make me at least $100k. If I do that consistently I'll build the business that is right for me.

      Chet Holmes has a concept he teaches called the Dream 100. Most people I feel mistakenly make their Dream 100 the wrong 100. If you could get 100 Dentists each paying you $10k a year, you're doing great, right? That's a million dollar business. But what if you could get 100 Centers Of Influence who each are bringing you $100k of business a year? That looks on paper like it's a $10 Million dollar business but in reality that's a $50-100 Million dollar business. Make sense?

      Not saying that any one person has to have what I want. But, let's look at what it would take to make a $100k business.

      Now you could find 10 Dentists, Chiropractors, Cosmetic Surgeons that will pay you $10k a piece. My issues with that are it's hard to bang your way through the front door to get that business. It's possible but difficult. You might spend months trying to get that done, multiple step marketing pieces, etc.

      Versus, you can find one good business that has a really good clientele such as a computer consultant, or a bookkeeping service. Spend your time and effort on the one client(who isn't getting marketed to nearly as hard). And cultivate them to the point where they are bringing you leads in. All this might take would be a letter, postcard, email or preferably dropping in with a cup of coffee and some donuts.

      The skill level required to land an attorney who spends $2 Million a year in advertising is a lot higher than the skill level to talk to Sean about people he knows in the business. In my opinion most would be better served in chasing the contact that is easier to get a hold of and also has the added benefit of being able to represent more cash flow long term.

      Plus you never know when you will strike gold. I've found this hidden niche that I've never heard anyone mention anywhere. They have no web marketing knowledge, no one is marketing to them, but they are a high transaction business($25k on average). I'm doing lead-gen in this marketplace and commanding $200 per incoming phone/email inquiry, while PPC costs remain around $2 per click on Google and .10 on Yahoo/MSN. Let everyone else chase the Dentists of the world. You never know what you'll find when you have a steady stream of business coming in your door.

      Marcos
      • [1] reply
  • Awesome dig on the untapped niche! Work it like a brothel during shore leave!!

    COI/referrals are most certainly a bonafide strategy for biz dev - but I'll quote my sales EVP dad who drilled sales into me from the time I was a little kid (cripes, I'm quoting my old man...), "Son, nobody is ever going to close your deal for you."

    A drawback to active referrals (vs. passive, "here's a name") is the qualification process is nil. I've gotten some awesome referrals in my tenure that turned into not only client relationships, but even financial partners! But I've also wasted some time with some duds that I would have screened out with a quickness - but didn't because the "center of influence" was somehow connected. Sometimes there's a delicate balance... politics....

    Balance, is the only thing I'm suggesting - which it sounds as if you are... at least level headed enough to also be generating your own leads from alternate sources that you control...
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    What if all the Offline WSO's have it all wrong?

    Look I'm posting this directly in the forum because I believe all the Offline WSO's have it all wrong. I currently run four offline businesses in the Atlanta area, and most of the approaches I see in the Offline WSO's wouldn't get past the first 3 second sniff test. As someone on both sides of the fence I can see that. I have my own offline clients, and I have my own offline businesses, it gives me a unique perspective. My problem with most marketing for offline consultants is it's all wrong. First off you're trying to blast through a door that is being pounded on by 20 different people a day. Do you know in one of my businesses I get at minimum 4 emails a day, and a few phone calls a week? "Let me get you traffic, let me get you to #1, let me get you business, let me put you to the top of Google, over and over again, ad infinitum. "