Are marketers really making money outside of the IM niche?

14 years ago

It's easier to make money outside the IM niche.. a lot easier.

Your niche is the most important part of your business plan (besides customer service), but micro-niches are real goldmines.

The IM niche can be pretty easy if you really know what you're talking about and doing.. but that takes years of experience to achieve.

For a newcomer to online business, IM is not the way to go.. esp when more money can be made outside the IM.

Product creation is the single best way to make money in any niche, as far as I can see.

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franamico

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Louise Evans

It's easier to make money outside the IM niche.. a lot easier.

Your niche is the most important part of your business plan (besides customer service), but micro-niches are real goldmines.

The IM niche can be pretty easy if you really know what you're talking about and doing.. but that takes years of experience to achieve.

For a newcomer to online business, IM is not the way to go.. esp when more money can be made outside the IM.

Product creation is the single best way to make money in any niche, as far as I can see.

A quick question...
Do you make money from the links you post in your content? such as articles, blogs etc?

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

The thing is, it honestly doesn't serve anyone any purpose ... I'm not saying this just to be cagey, but they were all doubtless niches in which other people do make money. I think a much more valid thing would be to share the products I didn't make any money with, or rather the "type of products" I didn't make any money with, which I can easily do, because the two significant things about 7 out of 8 of them (I started off with 8 products none of which I still promote!) were that they were all high gravity products and they had a vendor's opt-in on their sales pages. And those two things really are part of the reason that so many aspiring affiliate marketers earn nothing and some of them drop out in disillusionment never having the chance to realise what they've done wrong. (I recognise, of course, that vendors of high gravity products with opt-ins on their sales pages will argue with this, as they inevitably and invariably do, but that doesn't actually stop it being true.

).

Understand completely, and the information you supplied is a good start for someone wanting to know what to look for in order to avoid. Any small tidbits/details that can be shared with new folks in order to help them achieve some measure of success is worth its weight in gold.

Respectfully,
Tim

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genietoast 14 years ago

If you're ranking high on Google and receiving lots of traffic but no sales, then your niche is not the problem. It's probably the keyword you're targeting.

I'd recommend getting the software Market Samurai. It'll tell you the non-competitive keywords that are receiving traffic and are likely to make money.
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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I don't know.

I don't think of it quite like that. The thing is: an article of that sort of length is inevitably going to contain more keywords than "the one(s) you've primarily chosen" and some of the ultra-long-tail keywords on your list, which you can work in with almost no effort at all, are going to be trivially easy to rank for without particularly trying (which, again, to me, is why it's so important to put articles on your own site/blog before submitting them to EZA, because these are keywords for which you really can easily outrank EZA as long as you don't shoot yourself in the elegantly high-heeled foot by submitting there first).

Alexa,
I hope you don't mind but I highlighted the part I wanted to drill in on. One technique I have been using is to write and submit articles to EZA for competitive keyword phrases related to my niche and then link back to my site using anchor text keyword phrases that are not as competitive (long tail keyword phrases).

Naturally on my site I have articles that target the long tail keyword phrases which are now receiving link love from my EZA articles that are targeting keyword phrases I probably can't get ranked for on my site.

This method allows me to rank well for long tail keyword phrases on my site while simultaneously letting EZA fight it out on my behalf with everyone else for the competitive keyword phrases.

Respectfully,
Tim

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, this makes perfect sense to me - thanks. I see that there are some keywords (very common keywords in "big popular niches"?) for which it's going to be really hard to outrank EZA, and you're benefitting even from those by effectively borrowing EZA's high PR for your purposes? And what you're not doing is depending exclusively on that (as many do!) and then wondering 6 months later why your own site/blog still ranks nowhere because you've built up EZA's site at the expense of your own?

Exactly - Leverage EZA and every other article directory or virtual real estate we can get our content on and let them fight the tough battles for us while enjoying the fruits of our labors with the low comp keywords on our own turf.

The key to victory in any battle is to take the high ground!!

Respectfully,
Tim

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Do you mind if I ask how many articles, on average, you will write for a typical niche?

That depends on how well the niche performs - In some cases if I can get the niche earning on autopilot with a small amount of articles then I'm ok with submitting ever now and then just to keep the level of search engine spider interest alive.

For other niches I might submit several hundred in order to secure the autopilot earnings. For instance, rigth now I'm aggresively working the "prevent yeast infections" niche.

I have a battle plan drawn up that involves about 350 articles at a minimum just with EZA but truthfully I'm looking to go to 600 articles because I want to own the niche and have this site making $1000 or more each month.

One caveat - In some cases depending on how you monetize the niche more articles or less articles will be needed because it all depends on the conversion of the traffic the niche is receiving from the current inventory of articles created on its behalf.

Respectfully,
Tim

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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Shannon Herod

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Call me pedantic but he said "prevent yeast infection".

:p

For those of you who are like me and were wondering what pedantic meant here you go... overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.

Shannon

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Kevin Riley

14 years ago

My poor neglected natural health website, which I can't even find the login details for and do absolutely zero to promote, yet keeps making regular sales, says an emphatic "Yes!"

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Andyhenry

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

My poor neglected natural health website, which I can't even find the login details for and do absolutely zero to promote, yet keeps making regular sales, says an emphatic "Yes!"

Haha - I have lots of those.

Over the years I've created so many sites that I get surprise sales from stuff I couldn't even tell you I had up any more.

That's the beauty of the internet - you do these things for years and you leave revenue footprints that never go away and keep sending you money even after you die.

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

For those of you who are like me and were wondering what pedantic meant here you go... overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.

Shannon

Shannon - Many thanks because I for one had no idea what the heck it meant -

Tim

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JAIDEEP2959 14 years ago

Recently I made money from 'Online movies' niche.

The product was 'Streamonlinemovies.com'.
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ChrisGuthrie 14 years ago

I think it depends on what you're trying to do. The reason why you see so many products like that here is because this forum is about internet marketing so people are creating and serving products to internet marketers here.

I made all of my money outside this niche (see thread in signature). Perhaps people are drawn to this niche because it's easy to make money on people that think the next $97 eBook they buy will be the one that finally teaches them how to make money (nevermind the 10 they bought before this one).
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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Thanks, Tim. It's helpful contrasting what different successful article marketers do (within the last few posts, you and Alexa), so I appreciate the reply.

I have to ask this, though, why reveal the "yeast infection" niche you are working on currently? You have that much confidence nobody is going to outwork you? Is that it?

Not unless they plan to write hundreds upon hundreds of articles, create videos, podcasts, press releases, social boolkmark, create forward operating bases (FOBs) and permiter defense systems (PDSs).....yup, you guessed it, that's alot of cheddar -

There's alot of people that suffer from yeast infections (not just women) which means this market is wide open.

Respectfully,
Tim

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Oh, but let me ask you, if you don't mind, are sites within this "perimeter defense system" the recipients of the lowest quality backlinks? You know, links that can be obtained very inexpensively and with automation? Is that the role (or at least part) of this "defense system"? That question may sound simplistic, but what the heck, I still wanted to ask.

The perimeter defense system is my version of a linkwheel but instead of being built in support of my base website (main money site) they are built to provide support for the Forward Operating Bases (FOBs) which are minisites of the main base website.

Normally I build the FOB's in support of the main pages for my base websites. What I particularly like about the FOBs is that they can be sold to other folks and unless they change anything (most people rarely do) they still support my base website and I simply build another FOB to replace the FOB I sold.

All of these components are part of my Article Marketing Soldiers system which will be released at some point in time (sadly it's been in development for over a year now -

)

I also have something I've been toying with called Affiliate Cashmills (think of a windmill and how it generates electricity, only these generate cash). They are purposely designed for a different reason which is to be sold to another webmaster while openly supporting my main website.

I know, I know....clear as mud right....

Respectfully,
Tim

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

When these sites are sold, do you just rebuild another "Affiliate Cashmill" to replace the one that was sold? Is that how things work with that? If so, it must to not take you too long, relatively speaking, to get these sites to rank and generate income - otherwise it seems you would just hold onto them.

John,
I'm not at a point where I want to reveal to much regarding the Affiliate Cashmills but essentially they are small sites designed around supporting one individual product.

The builder of these Cashmills wants to sell them, in fact selling them is one of the keys to the success for this technique.

Also, the selling price is not the money maker, it is the product the sites are built in support of where the real money gets made.

Tim

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mlevenhagen 14 years ago

Are marketers really making money outside of the IM niche?

Add me to the list of 'Yeps!' I've uncovered so many non-IM niches that have made sales for me I can't even begin to develop them all. I simply try to gravitate and manage my 'most potentials'.. which are mostly non-IM.

Crazy money being spent online in all kinds of crazy niches.
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Joseph Robinson Banned 14 years ago

It seems that most money made on the internet is from the IM niche (I mean look at the SIZE of the WSO section) so I can see where many would be discouraged to step away from this area. Keep in mind though, once you step back and look around, there are many low competition niches that can be real winners. Its just going to take some more work but in my opinion it makes each sale all the more worthwhile.
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Dani D

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

... I think a much more valid thing would be to share the products I didn't make any money with, or rather the "type of products" I didn't make any money with, which I can easily do, because the two significant things about 7 out of 8 of them (I started off with 8 products none of which I still promote!) were that they were all high gravity products and they had a vendor's opt-in on their sales pages. And those two things really are part of the reason that so many aspiring affiliate marketers earn nothing and some of them drop out in disillusionment never having the chance to realise what they've done wrong.

Thanks Alexa. I was following the same path you're talking about. I spent $50 in Adwords because a super-ultra-mega-millionaire-guru said I could make millions and then all the traffic went to a page with an opt-in, so I couldn't compete or did it poorly.

(I Just started 3 weeks ago and I've realize exactly what you say) Thanks for sharing.

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Louise Green 14 years ago

Originally Posted by franamico

A quick question...
Do you make money from the links you post in your content? such as articles, blogs etc?

Yep everything leads back to either a sales page or a squeeze page.
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scrofford 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Louise Evans

The IM niche can be pretty easy if you really know what you're talking about and doing.. but that takes years of experience to achieve.

I don't agree. It didn't take me years to learn how to do IM. Yes I am constantly learning stuff, but if someone decides to learn and focuses on the fundamentals of IM, they can become successful pretty quick.
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Ben Roy

14 years ago

Are you using analytics to figure out what's happening with your sites? You say that Google shows high searches and you are ranking well - do you know how many visitors you're getting? How many from each keyword, what they're doing when they get to your site, etc?

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sellerscompanion 14 years ago

Hi Ben... Yes, I use Analytics on my sites. Some use Statcounter, some use GA and others I just use AWstats. I have been at this for over a year now and own over 100 sites. I do look at my bounce rates (if they are high, I adjust the site). I do make SOME income from my sites (more from writing and working for other internet marketers and selling sites).

I do write articles, social bookmark, backlink.... I tweak and adjust and tweak some more.

I would like to see more income from the sites themselves to free me up for product creation. My background is in writing and I love to create books/reports, etc. So, I would like for my sites to pay the bills while I create products. I am THE sole income earner in my household, so it is very important for my sites to start paying for themselves.
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richgrad

14 years ago

You might want to check out the first article in my signature.... I talked about how I made 6 figures in internet revenue OUTSIDE the IM niche... so yes... you can actually make money outside the IM niche

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alvinhuang

14 years ago

Originally Posted by richgrad

You might want to check out the first article in my signature.... I talked about how I made 6 figures in internet revenue OUTSIDE the IM niche... so yes... you can actually make money outside the IM niche

Think you forgot to mention that you removed my banner from your blog but didn't tell me. Your optin banner is still on my product download page.

Alvin Huang

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DeadGuy 14 years ago

Funny you should ask that question. Total 2009 internet retail sales (that is retail as in hard goods) were $3,994,000,000 according the U.S. Census Bureau. Not sure, but I think that outstrips IM by a fair margin.
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- kchui1028 14 years ago
  
  i don't care for IM products so i probably won't ever promote some "make me rich" products.
  
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richgrad

14 years ago

Originally Posted by alvinhuang

Think you forgot to mention that you removed my banner from your blog but didn't tell me. Your optin banner is still on my product download page.

Alvin Huang

Hi Alvin, I removed the banner because your site was down (banner became img with a cross)... the mindpower blog (one of the places my banner was supposed to be displayed) is completely gone... (I just checked again... got a 500 Internal Server Error) You can go check it out yourself.

If you like, you can contact me directly... I'm sure you'd agree it's inappropriate to hog another warrior's thread to discuss this.

P.S. I just googled you and realized your domain (alvinhuang.com) has been suspended... I'm not sure whether you are aware about this... you might want to take it up with your hosting company.

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alvinhuang

14 years ago

Originally Posted by richgrad

Hi Alvin, I removed the banner because your site was down (banner became img with a cross)... the mindpower blog (one of the places my banner was supposed to be displayed) is completely gone... (I just checked again... got a 500 Internal Server Error) You can go check it out yourself.

If you like, you can contact me directly... I'm sure you'd agree it's inappropriate to hog another warrior's thread to discuss this.

P.S. I just googled you and realized your domain (alvinhuang.com) has been suspended... I'm not sure whether you are aware about this... you might want to take it up with your hosting company.

Hmm...the site was down for a while because it was hacked. Did you put it back after after it came back up? Or asked me about it?

Regarding the blog, my bad. My guy probably didn't restore it. But like you said, its one of the places where i placed your banner. Rest is still there. So I guess its fine for the other to be up while none of mine is?

Apologies..but i cut through the thread because you mentioned how you made 6 figures in a year. Hence I followed the link to your blogs and you mentioned how you build your list with the 101 affirmations. Then I realised was building your list; but wasn't getting anything back. So please pardon my recklessness here as it sounded rather wrong.

Yeah my personal domain alvinhuang.com is down...thanks for telling me that. I know as that domain's hosting is gone. But if you googled me you would also find that my other websites are all up with my various VPS. I'll just needa switch it over. Not sure if this is a dig at my other website somehow. But if its a friendly reminder...yeah thanks.

Sorry to interupt this thread. Just wanted to reply him.

Alvin Huang

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes.

The big problem with affiliate marketing, it seems to me, is that when you fail, you have no idea why you've failed. And you can't find out easily from asking people in forums, either, because they don't know exactly what you've done in the first place, they're not building the same sort of business as you, and the "information" you're given, which purports to be factual, is often opinion (and often mistaken opinion) rather than fact. It's like a hurdle race, in which you learn a bit about the course and then run round in the dark, and at the end, someone says to you "pass" or "fail", and if you fail, they don't tell you how many hurdles you failed to clear, by what height, what else you did wrong, whether you went the right way, and a whole load of other things as well. And it's very difficult to "improve" when you don't know, clearly and unambiguously, what you've been doing wrong.

There are lots of people who are willing to "teach", but the reality is that to some extent (a) for really successful/wise marketers, doing this stuff can be far better paid than teaching it, and (b) for unsuccessful/unwise marketers it's much easier to make a living teaching people about it than it is doing it. Unfortunately, with only really rare exceptions, this tends to have exactly the overall effect on "the availability/accessibility of teaching materials" that you'd imagine it would have. Which is, of course, yet another reason for keeping away from the "IM market". :p

Can I get an Aaaameeen to that sister!

Sorry, I'm not American, not religious...but amen sister.

You know, most of the time I don't really care what others are doing, but it makes me laugh when I see how cluttered the WSO section is, full of products with big promises, with little proof or credentials, preying on the beginners (and intermediates in fact)...

...yet people just don't seem to want to learn the stuff that matters - like how to sell to people, how to layout your site, how to create irresistible offers.

It's a people business, but so many people in this business want to plug some Wordpress plugin into their blog, and wake up tomorrow with a tonne of Clickbank checks...

...preferably without learning anything, or adding to the world, or even better - without getting involved in dealing with real people (customers or partners).

So on it goes - the product creation cycle, pandering to what people can't help buying, even when history shows those one trick ponies they are buying don't end up running so well against the horses.

I love selling products that matter - and are high value - and work in this market...but it's just so much easier to sell stuff in niche markets (or large markets outside IM). So I continue to do so, and if people want to learn how I do it, then they can.

If they want to learn how to trick Google for 3 months, or promote **** berries to people searching for Gym equipment, then "carry on" I say...good luck.

Thanks

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richgrad

14 years ago

Alvin, when you approached me for JV, I was already making a very good income as you can recall (additional $1,000 every single month... in fact I already hit 5 figures/month in September 2008)... mainly because I was investing heavily and scaling up my campaigns with ADWORDS (Spent about 25K on it last year)

In my article, I mentioned mailing listS. I used the 101 affirmations as an example... because I can't be revealing all of my niches right?

Your site was down for quite some time... Let's be reasonable... I couldn't have just left a dead banner on my site, agreed?

My bad for not contacting you about it... I thought the whole site was gone and didn't know you still have my link at your thank you page (I'm using statcounter - Max log of 500 visitors and I haven't seen traffic coming from your site since it went down). And to be fair, you could have taken the initiative to contact me as well right... to let me know your site was hacked and it was back up and I can place the banner back again.

But like I said, I apologize for assuming, based on the circumstances, instead of clarifying. I take responsibility on my end for that.

As for your personal domain, I meant it in good faith to tell you... because I've quite a number of sites up on the internet as well and sometimes they do go down unnoticed. I just wanted to make sure you know so you can get it fixed straight away. I'm sorry if the tone didn't come off right because I was responding to the way you hijacked this post to talk about something that's off topic and perceived as a sudden "attack" and that we could have discussed personally.

My invitation to take our discussion off this thread still stands. Let me know how we can work this out, admirably.

Originally Posted by alvinhuang

Hmm...the site was down for a while because it was hacked. Did you put it back after after it came back up? Or asked me about it?

Regarding the blog, my bad. My guy probably didn't restore it. But like you said, its one of the places where i placed your banner. Rest is still there. So I guess its fine for the other to be up while none of mine is?

Apologies..but i cut through the thread because you mentioned how you made 6 figures in a year. Hence I followed the link to your blogs and you mentioned how you build your list with the 101 affirmations. Then I realised was building your list; but wasn't getting anything back. So please pardon my recklessness here as it sounded rather wrong.

Yeah my personal domain alvinhuang.com is down...thanks for telling me that. I know as that domain's hosting is gone. But if you googled me you would also find that my other websites are all up with my various VPS. I'll just needa switch it over. Not sure if this is a dig at my other website somehow. But if its a friendly reminder...yeah thanks.

Sorry to interupt this thread. Just wanted to reply him.

Alvin Huang

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Fernando Veloso

14 years ago

Hey CC

Maybe you need to place your expertise ranking sites up high in other niche markets.

Tip: Check War Room's last pages... You'll find some great resources there.

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Andyhenry

14 years ago

This subject comes up every now and again and yes - there are many of us making money outside the IM niche.

IM is great, but it's mainly about money and business and I wouldn't find that fulfilling enough on its own so I always need to have more going on.

Andy

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

I agree, there's far too much "buy my stuff, I'll show you how to make money selling info on how to make money to people who want to know how to make money from selling stuff on how to make money..." kind of stuff out there.

I personally create and market information outside IM and make money. But I also sell the shovel so other people can do what I do. Win-win.

Personally, I only really buy sandwiches from folks who don't just have a sharp and shiny knife, but who know how to slice it in more than just butter....

...without cutting their fingers.

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Ryan D

Banned 14 years ago

Of course people are making big money outside IM. The internet is growing every single year.

But having said that, I PERSONALLY think that most people selling WSO's touting how much money they make out of IM are probably exaggerated or you're not seeing the full picture. I run ecommerce stores and have niches that I would consider to be, just average. However, I can show you paypal payments of $100k per year and maybe impress you. But you won't know that I have $20k in PPC expenses and $60K in COGS, and $10k in marketing costs. Not as impressive eh?

And yes, I'm sure that's what people do. To some extent anyways.

As for affiliates in offline niches. I think it depends. I am an ecommerce owner to a site that's a pretty small niche. but because it's so small/defined and the margins are high, I payout pretty high %. And I have 1 or 2 affiliates that hit $2k in payouts every month because they have good sites.

So yes, it's possible.

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Vanquish 14 years ago

Their are a ton of profitable niches outside of the IM niche but since everyone wants to make money, lots of people target the IM niche. As well the consumers in the IM niche are desperate to make money and are used to pulling out their credit cards and making repeat purchases without thinking its a "scam".

The other big markets where lots of money can be made are health and relationships. Anywhere where a problem exists and you position yourself as a solution, you can make money.
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- werner77 14 years ago
  
  all of my income are from outside the IM to IM space.
  I just cant understand how people can sell products that tell people how to make money on the internet when they themselves never sold a product or anything outside the IM space.
  
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Lawrh

14 years ago

The emphasis on the "Make Money" niche is mostly in this forum and related blogs. Elsewhere the subject doesn't come up. Good marketers can and do sell anything. From spices and hot sauce to lawn furniture, anything.

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alvinhuang

14 years ago

Interesting enough. My partner and myself made a ton from the non-im niches for a few years before joining the IM niche just early last year.

I would say the money in non-im niches are very stable. Content is evergreen. However the business in the IM niche seems to be able to grow faster. IM niche customers can become affiliates easily. Non-IM niches...they get confused when you mention affiliate program.

Alvin Huang

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Andyhenry

14 years ago

One of the big problems with the IM niche is that many people get into it with zero business or marketing experience and are looking for a get rich quick scheme. They don't make it themselves, but they don't have any marketing knowledge - so they think if they just post lots of get rich quick stuff that other desperate beginners will make them their money instead - the selling shovels to the gold miners type mindset, except they're not selling shovels most of the time, they're selling pitch-forks and thinking it's a shovel.

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LB

14 years ago

I would say the majority of warriors who are actually making money are doing it outside the "IM" niche. I have been for years.

It's just that this is an IM forum, so a product on dog grooming probably isn't going to do so well as a WSO...

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Ido Jansen

14 years ago

CC dear,
Your post is so right and so in place!
I have the same feeling for few months now. I have came across a wonderful report here in the forum. it was a report about auto-blogging.
It was by far the best practical report I have ever read - and you know what? it works. the traffic, Clickbank clicks, everything
except - MONEY!
I have about 80 CB clicks a day and no sale for the last 30 days !!! (OMG)
I cannot help the thought that people are being skeptical on what they find on the net.

Thank you CC for raising this issue - it seems that no one dares to shout "the king in naked"

Ido

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richgrad

14 years ago

Originally Posted by maoodi

CC dear,
Your post is so right and so in place!
I have the same feeling for few months now. I have came across a wonderful report here in the forum. it was a report about auto-blogging.
It was by far the best practical report I have ever read - and you know what? it works. the traffic, Clickbank clicks, everything
except - MONEY!
I have about 80 CB clicks a day and no sale for the last 30 days !!! (OMG)
I cannot help the thought that people are being skeptical on what they find on the net.

Thank you CC for raising this issue - it seems that no one dares to shout "the king in naked"

Ido

People value original content... syndication sites are mainly seen as adsense spam sites... not valuable to web surfers at all.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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Bill Farnham

14 years ago

If it were up to me, nobody would be allowed to sell into the MMO/IM market until they had a decent track record selling 'real world' products or services.

It seems every Tom, Dick, and Jane that buys an ebook on IM thinks they need to enter the field and start selling to the crowd before they have even made their first dollar online.

It's no wonder so much of the stuff that is marketed to IMers is pure junk, backed by anecdotal reguritations disguised as information in the hopes of some other clueless newbie buying the product hoping to cash in.

The proliferation of "interception marketing" whereby you find traffic and put up any kind of page in front of it just to get people to click on something or buy some lame product based on the theory that "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then" has turned IM into the free for all get rich quick circus it has become.

And I don't mean that in a bad way...:rolleyes:

But to answer your question...most definitely.

~Bill

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Ryan D

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

If it were up to me, nobody would be allowed to sell into the MMO/IM market until they had a decent track record selling 'real world' products or services.

It seems every Tom, Dick, and Jane that buys an ebook on IM thinks they need to enter the field and start selling to the crowd before they have even made their first dollar online.

It's no wonder so much of the stuff that is marketed to IMers is pure junk, backed by anecdotal reguritations disguised as information in the hopes of some other clueless newbie buying the product hoping to cash in.

The proliferation of "interception marketing" whereby you find traffic and put up any kind of page in front of it just to get people to click on something or buy some lame product based on the theory that "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then" has turned IM into the free for all get rich quick circus it has become.

And I don't mean that in a bad way...:rolleyes:

But to answer your question...most definitely.

~Bill

I like your description of "interception marketing", but I don't hold that rosy of a view of the past either. There might be more people now, but back then they were the same bunch of circus animals they are now.

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Bill Farnham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan D

I like your description of "interception marketing", but I don't hold that rosy of a view of the past either. There might be more people now, but back then they were the same bunch of circus animals they are now.

Agreed, to a degree.

The proliferation I referred to is indeed the "more people now" you referred to, so in that sense we are on the same page.

The flock has turned into a herd...

~Bill

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes.

Ok ... briefly: I started off promoting Clickbank products about a year and half ago (little bit more, now), had no idea what I was doing at all, chose bad products to promote, laboured away learning a little as I went, and earned virtually nothing at all for about 4 months.

Alexa,
Great post and I apologize for only quoting a small part but this is the portion I wanted to highlight. Many marketers are always asking to see the niches people do well in - I'm wondering, would you mind sharing the niches you didn't make money with?

I'll start with my own confession - I haven't made a dime from the weight loss, get your ex back or stop smoking niches.

Respectfully,
Tim

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richgrad

14 years ago

I agree with what Alexa said about adsense... I don't use it in my blogs for the same reasons. It just doesn't make sense in terms of ROI.

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cjmo75

I find it so much easier to market non IM related products. I think it's because a large part of the customer base for IM products are in fact internet marketers themselves, and are therefore much more critical of the product. One of my hottest niches is the "how to get your ex back" niche.

When I first started about 5 years ago I made money in the following niches:

treadmills
elliptical trainers
plus size clothing
golf
debt relief
loans
tanning beds

I didn't start making money in the IM/MMO niche until I started revealing how I was making money in the niches listed above with my article marketing methods.

Respectfully,
Tim

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E. Brian Rose

14 years ago

For the last ten years I made quite a living marketing online and never sold anything to do with IM until this year. Most of my previous success was in the poker and medical device markets, both highly competitive fields.

There are literally thousands of niches in which you can make money online. Some are more lucrative than others. Be like Goldilocks and find something that is not too hot, not too cold.

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Cash37

14 years ago

You can make a ton of money in any niche where people are willing to spend money to alleviate some problem.

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cotum

14 years ago

I make a nice living in the hypnosis and dating niche.

As a matter of fact I just withdrew another $200 from my PayPal account and received an email thanking me for my great products.

At the same time... I'm currently developing my first IM product, because after years of running my business I really DO know how to make money online.

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Joe Benjamin

14 years ago

I know many marketers who make money outside the IM niche.

I do promote IM related products occasionally, but it's so rare.
Other niches I prefer are Forex (financial), wedding speeches,
and acne (one of those niches I'm actively in, the other 2 I'm
in development stages).

And, it doesn't bother me if other people know what niches I'm
in. I'd be more impressed if the people who KNOW what the
profitable niches are...

"Will they grab they're sack and DO something about the new
knowledge they have?"

Fact is, you can give someone a detailed map to the treasure
chest, and they'll find some reason to not go, screw it up, or
miss the opportunity.

(primarily why I DON'T like the IM niche much, few people
actually do anything with the information you give them as
tools to use in marketing)

Nonetheless, I'm a Real Estate guy. Much slower, fewer volatile
changes in the market. And, IMHO, the richest game you can
play (yes, even better than ANY online marketing)

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin

And, it doesn't bother me if other people know what niches I'm
in. I'd be more impressed if the people who KNOW what the
profitable niches are...

"Will they grab they're sack and DO something about the new
knowledge they have?"

Fact is, you can give someone a detailed map to the treasure
chest, and they'll find some reason to not go, screw it up, or
miss the opportunity.

(primarily why I DON'T like the IM niche much, few people
actually do anything with the information you give them as
tools to use in marketing)

Bingo, we can sit here and type a ton of profitable niches and unfortunately most people will never do anything with them. Heck, I have about 75 niches I still need/want to develop sites for but the time is never there.

Right now I think the selling of physical products (especially using Amazon as the product provider) seems to be really heating up. As a result, I would expect we will soon see a ton of products getting released on how to make money with Amazon -

Respectfully,
Tim

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USGTMauthor

14 years ago

I have made more money with ebooks I wrote than anything else. I guess at the end of the day people are buying what I know a little about which is self development. My internet marketing skills are not anything I would brag about. A simple blogger blog, a facebook fan page and a few tweets here and there. Most of my sales come from giving stuff away and get people to think I know something, they then come back and buy an ebook. Quite honestly, Adsense and other stuff I have messed with has not been worth it. I can't claim to make a living online, but I also have a job and do not work it full time. I have generated enough sales to believe that if I did go full time, decent money could be made.

I think people underestimate how much can be made in everyday niches. I am in time management and personal development which are really not that big and do ok, because I try to have a worthwhile product.

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Christian York

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sellerscompanion

I've noticed lately that a lot of the courses and WSO's I purchase center around marketing within the IM niche itself. There is no question in anyone's mind that list building and selling to the IM crowd can be the superhighway to making big money, but are people REALLY making good money marketing outside of the IM niche?

I know that product owners are making money. However, are the affiliates of totally NON IM related products making big money?

I am having one of those days where I feel like throwing my hands up in the air because my sites are ranking high, Google shows high searches and I have calls to action prominently displayed on my sites, but I feel like they are invisible!

I have a mixture of Amazon, Adsense and a few Clickbank sites with CPA mixed in to some of them.

I would love to hear some success stories from those of you who are tackling non IM markets and making a full time income.

CC

Niche Marketing is far more profitable (at least to me). In fact 99% of my income comes from niches like muscle building, forex, supplements, self improvement etc.

You have to analysis where you are going wrong.

If you are generating good amounts of traffic from the serps but no one is clicking on your links then your website layout and design itself is the problem. Try changing themes, removing/adding banners, changing placement of links etc.

If however you are getting a lot of click thru's but not make many sales, then you have to look at the products that you are promoting. Maybe you can test with another product. Or perhaps the niche itself doesn't convert well because their is a lot of free information available.

Where are you going wrong?

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Ilya Feynberg

14 years ago

I would say that the vast majority of successful marketers are working well out of the "make money" niche. Not even anywhere close to it.

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TimG

14 years ago

If you're interested in seeing niches outside of IM that people are working on just take a peek at some of the signature files as people post in threads.

Sure 70% are IM related but the other 30% are in a variety of other niches. Anytime I see a different niche in a signature file I write it down on a small notebook I keep near my computer and I also go and visit the site so I can further see how that particular marketer is attempting to dominate the niche.

In the last 3-4 days I've found some very interesting new niches I would have never thought of were in not for the links in the sig files.

Respectfully,
Tim

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Every time you pop back into this thread, I have a new question; and this one has nothing to do with specifically how you go about things. I was just wondering, in reference to the way you plan to dominate this "prevent yeast infection" niche, how much of the total work involved will actually be outsourced?

John,
Initially very little because until I get the niche earning on autopilot I'm hesitant to pump money into it. Once I get sales regularly flowing I will start outsourcing articles, some additional backlinking and maybe some Permiter Defense Systems for it.

The outsourcing will free up some time allowing me to build Affiliate Cashmills for the main site - Hopefully you caught that because it provides you one more clue on the purpose of the Cashmills...

Respectfully,
Tim

PS - Don't mind the questions at all...keep them coming

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Okay, thanks. Here's one then: you said you plan on pumping out as many as 600 articles for this "prevent yeast infection" niche; does that mean, initially, you are going to be writing all of these articles yourself?

From what I understand, you are promoting your own product at a $17 price point, correct? How's that going?

Also, I saw somewhere in another thread where you said that you now are concentrating on building larger, more authoritative sites rather than focusing on smaller sites with only a few pages of content. So, from what I understand, whereas before you concentrated on building backlinks mainly to the home page, now you are building backlinks to every single of page of the site. Am I understanding that right?

And, if so, how many pages total do you expect your "prevent yeast infection" site to have? Finally, how long do you expect this whole project to take?

Sorry - I must have missed this question earlier. Yes, for the most part I will be doing most of the initial article writing.

Correct, instead of linkbuilding campaigns for the home page I am more focused on conducting my marketing for the inner pages of the product website.

Total number of pages for this particular site is hard to say- It will definately be in the high hundreds....maybe over a thousand -

Something of this magnitude will take months and months of work - maybe even a year or more but once completed (and while being completed) the site will provide a strong income base for me.

Also, I don't consider stuff like this work - I do treat it like a real business but gosh, it is so much fun that it barely seems like work and getting paid for your own labor is a great feeling.

Respectfully,
Tim

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allegrity

14 years ago

Marketing outside of the internet marketing niche is infinitely easier and takes less experience.

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kmckillop

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sellerscompanion

I've noticed lately that a lot of the courses and WSO's I purchase center around marketing within the IM niche itself. There is no question in anyone's mind that list building and selling to the IM crowd can be the superhighway to making big money, but are people REALLY making good money marketing outside of the IM niche?

Makes complete sense all you see is IM related stuff, as this is an IM related crowd. If I was after people in the salt water fish tank niche and had things to offer them, I wouldn't hang around here.

So you have an IM crowd, sell the IM crowd IM stuff.

That may not have answered your original question, just wanted to comment on your observation about WSO's all being IM related.

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kmckillop

Makes complete sense all you see is IM related stuff, as this is an IM related crowd. If I was after people in the salt water fish tank niche and had things to offer them, I wouldn't hang around here.

So you have an IM crowd, sell the IM crowd IM stuff.

That may not have answered your original question, just wanted to comment on your observation about WSO's all being IM related.

That brings up a very valuable point. This forum has a huge membership base but a small percentage actually end up posting in here for one simple reason.

I believe you have a ton of folks that are not in the IM niche that frequent this forum in order to learn marketing techniques which can be applied to the niches they are actively involved with or in.

We don't know about those folks because they don't spend their time posting in here. Instead they are posting in the forums that they are actively marketing too -

Respectfully,
Tim

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sellerscompanion 14 years ago

I appreciate all of the feedback to my question so far. I feel a lot better about the fact that my marketing is related to outside niches. I think that I will go back to many of my sites and make sure that they are all optimized for the right market.
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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Are marketers really making money outside of the making-money IM niche? Absolutely! Statistically speaking, there are way more niche marketers making a living online than marketers who sell to other marketers. Just look at all the dating, gardening, cooking, health, pet, etc. websites that are making viable profits everyday - and this only covers a small fraction of the profitable niches that are out there - and you will see that they far out number the MMO IM niche. Heck, I didn't include eBay or online retailers....

The "IM niche" is a very small drop in the overall e-commerce bucket.

RoD

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BizBoost

14 years ago

Great question, CC. The answer is yes. The exasperation comes from the fact that those proficient in the IM niche themselves are not necessarily proficient as teachers. The best teachers truly understand the psychology *** and mechanics *** of those they teach. When their understanding of those things are low, all they do is churn out mechanical copycats.

As mechanical copycats, a small percentage will make money, just like a small percentage of total "donkeys" manage to make money playing poker -- for some, accident and luck will run deep.

But, the rest CALL themselves "internet marketers" yet without making a dime and all the "gurus" have done is turned them into THE ULTIMATE CUSTOMER.

Proof positive... we all know the key to "less work" and "more money" is a passive income system but, instead, the big-name gurus break their systems down into tiny pieces and continually sell you another piece every few weeks. The half-successful mechanical copycats try to sell you another piece on every "thank you page."

The point is, you can make money anywhere as long as you know what you're doing. And, if you don't, but you're one of those mechanical copycats who THINKS s/he does... then you're in for an awful lot of disappointment until it stings enough to wake you up to the reality of the situation.

Great question, thanks for asking.
Eric
ps. please feel free to ask some follow up questions

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BizBoost

As mechanical copycats, a small percentage will make money, just like a small percentage of total "donkeys" manage to make money playing poker -- for some, accident and luck will run deep.

(sigh) - I hate donkeys!!!!

Tim

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Bill Farnham

14 years ago

Hi Tim,

You have been very generous sharing in this thread. I hope you don't mind me asking this question...

Your testimonials are the type that can be referred to as 'aspirational' testimonials, e.g. someone reading them would aspire to the same results, and hence fall under the scrutiny of the FTC.

From my understanding those testimonials are now basically 'off limits' as far as usage goes do to the nature of them not reflecting the "typical" results someone would have, but rather results that exemplifiy what a successful user would have.

Have you checked into the legality of using those testimonials?

~Bill

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

Hi Tim,

You have been very generous sharing in this thread. I hope you don't mind me asking this question...

Your testimonials are the type that can be referred to as 'aspirational' testimonials, e.g. someone reading them would aspire to the same results, and hence fall under the scutiny of the FTC.

From my understanding those testimonials are now basically 'off limits' as far as usage goes do to the nature of them not reflecting the "typical" results someone would have, but rather results that exemplifiy what a successful user would have.

Have you checked into the legality of using those testimonials?

~Bill

Bill,
Right now I am in the process of attempting to have those testimonials replaced but as you can expect trying to obtain a testimonial from someone that had a yeast infection and cured it has not been as easy as I initially believed.

There were several other testimonials on the site but I did remove those due to FTC guidelines and unless I have someone send me new testimonials this week I'm going to have to pull the current one's down.

I'm not saying the testimonials on the salespage are not accurate or true but because I didn not obtain them myself from a customer that I personally sold this product too I'll have no choice but to pull them.

That's another reason why this product has not been added to Clickbank yet - I'm hoping to get some testimonials for it first.

Respectfully,
Tim

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theultimate1

14 years ago

Hi Tim,

Your posts on this thread have been very educative. Thanks a lot for posting your heart out in walking a few miles to help everybody around here.

I have a few questions though...

1.) Why not use popular Web 2.0 sites/properties, instead of building FOBs and/or PDSs? I read that you flip them and replace them with similar FOBs/PDSs, but is flipping the only reason why you would prefer building them to using Web 2.0 sites?

2.) You've mentioned that you're planning to dominate the "prevent yeast infections" niche with 600 articles. I'm assuming that you would write 60 original articles and each of them would have 9 re-written versions; or you could write 100 original articles each having 5 re-written versions to go along with them. By doing that (if my assumptions are right or you could clarify :p thanks in advance for that), you would already be giving out a looooooot of value to your readers. What different would your product (for sale) cover? I mean, how would you go about generating a lot more ideas than what your pre-sell content has already given them?

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by theultimate1

Hi Tim,

Your posts on this thread have been very educative. Thanks a lot for posting your heart out in walking a few miles to help everybody around here.

I have a few questions though...

1.) Why not use popular Web 2.0 sites/properties, instead of building FOBs and/or PDSs? I read that you flip them and replace them with similar FOBs/PDSs, but is flipping the only reason why you would prefer building them to using Web 2.0 sites?

2.) You've mentioned that you're planning to dominate the "prevent yeast infections" niche with 600 articles. I'm assuming that you would write 60 original articles and each of them would have 9 re-written versions; or you could write 100 original articles each having 5 re-written versions to go along with them. By doing that (if my assumptions are right or you could clarify :p thanks in advance for that), you would already be giving out a looooooot of value to your readers. What different would your product (for sale) cover? I mean, how would you go about generating a lot more ideas than what your pre-sell content has already given them?

Thanks

Thanks for the props and some great questions.

1 - The FOBs are built using sites I can personally own so I have some control over doing what I want with the virtual real estate. The PDSs are comprised of Web 2.0 sites/properties - sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

2 - The 600 plus articles are only targeting identified keywords because in a perfect world I'd love it if my site showed up for any keyword search conducted in the "prevent yeast infection" niche.

Is there alot of value in the articles - I sure hope since since I'll be typing them up but I hope I didn't give the impression that they were for the solely for the readers/vistors.

Make no mistake, that content is all in support of getting a page ranked with my product on it in order to generate sales. Unlike most product son Clickbank that have a few articles along with the salesletter I'm build a huge site with the salesletter as the home page. All other content is in support of the home page.

It might be easier if I showed a quick example:

Here is the home page - How To Prevent Yeast Infections - Complete Relief In Just A Few Hours

Here is an article (webpage) on my site in support of that home page:

Yeast Infection Home Remedy - Home Remedies for Yeast Infections

That's a rough draft because I've yet to include the call to action (which I will do soon) which will be used to drive traffic to the salesletter.

Hopefully that cleared up a little bit of confusion I may have caused.

Respectfully,
Tim

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TimG

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Okay, here's a stupid question, with all this effort you are putting into this, why are you selling the product for only $14.95? That "12 Hour Yeast Infection Cure" sells for $37 or $39 (I forget which) and seems to convert pretty well, at least from I have found.

Have you come to the conclusion that selling the product at $14.95 you should be able to make more money selling in volume? Is that it?

John,
Not a stupid question at all. I originally started pricing this at $37 but was not making any sales so I dropped the price to $17 and sales started occurring. I further reduced the price to $14.94 in order to see if that would increase the sales conversion (volume sold instead of higher price).

I'm actually still juggling (testing) the price point - Keep in mind that I don't use PPC so for me I don't need to price my products higher in order to offset an incurred PPC cost.

Also, I'm not sure if those other products sell as well as many people claim, although I could be wrong because without a ton of traffic from PPC and without a ton of organic traffic from ranking high in the search engines I am basing everything off traffic derived from article marketing.

I've taken some steps to get my product ranked for at least 4 different semi-long tail keyword phrases and with that expected increase in traffic I should no more about where to price this product optimally at that point in time.

Ultimately, a higher price point with a strong conversion percentage is the desired end result.

Respectfully,
Tim

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johnben1444

14 years ago

A lot of people are making money outside the IM niche as well as inside IM.

However, you need a combination of effort and time to breakthrough the competition but definitely worth the struggle if you have the guts.

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JonMills

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sellerscompanion

I've noticed lately that a lot of the courses and WSO's I purchase center around marketing within the IM niche itself. There is no question in anyone's mind that list building and selling to the IM crowd can be the superhighway to making big money, but are people REALLY making good money marketing outside of the IM niche?

I know that product owners are making money. However, are the affiliates of totally NON IM related products making big money?

I am having one of those days where I feel like throwing my hands up in the air because my sites are ranking high, Google shows high searches and I have calls to action prominently displayed on my sites, but I feel like they are invisible!

I have a mixture of Amazon, Adsense and a few Clickbank sites with CPA mixed in to some of them.

I would love to hear some success stories from those of you who are tackling non IM markets and making a full time income.

CC

Yes. Through Shareasale, Commission Junction and Independant affiliate Programs

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Are marketers really making money outside of the IM niche?

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