Message for Noobs...

by Kim Standerline

Posted: 16 years ago 33 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

I've been accused today of being a tad hard on newbie marketer's asking for help with mentoring.

Maybe I was blunt, but I wasn't being malicious in my replies. the thing is unless you're exceptionally talented (or lucky) you have to go through the learning curve with IM the same as the rest of us.

There is no magic wand to get you up and going with an online business, please stop buying into every new bright shiny thing that comes along and focus on just one thing.

There are probably some on this forum who wouldn't agree with me, but this is how I think you could approach your business if you are just starting an online career.

I'm a big believer in the KISS principle (Keep it simple stupid), and I think you need to decide carefully about whether you really want to get into IM(If you're not careful, it can take over your life and ruin your health)

Think carefully about what it is you want to actually do (and stick with it). One of the worst things many of us do is jump from project to project without actually finishing anything.
Do a business plan (Bev Clements is the one to go to for this)
Take a deep breath before you start

Once you've decided on what you want to do or create etc. you need to gather your tools together to work with.

Lets look at building a website for an ebook you want to sell.

First of all you need to source your book, personally (depending on the niche I was going to cater to) I'd see if there were any PLR books I could use and edit.

Don't discount PLR stuff, yeah there is some crap out there, but there is also some really good stuff.

I'd grab a PLR book I could work with and heavily edit and change extensively. if not, trot over to rentacoder if you don't want to write it yourself. You can get a decent 50 page ebook written for about $250. (Make sure you retain the copyright and it isn't plagerised etc).

There are many free tools on the Internet, but personally I would invest in the best.

If you don't know the difference between html and your big right toenail, invest in xsitepro it's a super fabulous website editor and it will help you out with all that pesky stuff like SEO etc (whilst you're learning the ropes). Take a day to learn how to use it. (That's honestly how long it will take you to learn). TIP make sure you go through the tutorial if u do buy it.

XSP was designed for newbies, and it will help you build super professional looking websites.

Invest in decent hosting. (Don't go for free, it looks cheap and nasty), there are some cool hosting packages out there on shared hosting which start out at $5 a month. if you can't afford that, then I suggest you leave IM for now and get a job even if its flipping burgers.

If you're using XSP, there are a heap of templates that come with the software, or you can outsource the job to someone.

Your PLR book may have come with a sales page etc. if it did, make sure you change it extensively to reflect you.

Final thing (cos I'm tired and it's way past my bedtime), get your site up there in cyber space.

it doesn't matter how ugly it is, you can titivate it later. You need to feel the pride and sense of accomplisment you'll get by seeing your very first website online.

lol I nearly forgot, you need to have bought a domain name, don't buy it through your host, (or godaddy for that matter) go to namecheap their site is much easier to traverse and you don't get rugby tackled with an upsell every time you click a link to move to the cart. You can get namecheap coupon codes from here where you can save a dollar or 2.

Ok that's it from me. It would be nice if other warriors could come in with suggestions for our newbie to get traffic to their site and anything else I forgot. (I'm bushed)

Cheers
Kim

#message #noobs

Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

you have to go through the learning curve with IM the same as the rest of us.

That just about says it all.

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Michael Mayo

16 years ago

Wow! Steven, I think that was the first time I had ever seen you post a one liner...lol

J/K.

Kim,

I followed many of the posts you were involved in today and I do understand where you are coming from with your direct replies.

I also understand that people asking for Help don't respond well to stern/direct replies.

Many are desperate to succeed and do hope to shorten the learning curve a bit. As a Coach, I have only one rule so that they remain in my course. The rule is they must perform their tasks assigned.

As long as they do, they can succeed. If they do not, then I drop them like a hot potato and move on to the others doing what needs to be done in order to succeed.

The way I Coach is one on one with each client.
This method works well for my members because I hand pick them.

What you have said about they need to learn what we've learned in order to succeed is partly true although they don't have to make the same mistakes we've made in order to do so.

Basically this cuts the learning curve by giving them the right path to follow and also by telling them not to step on the red bricks because they explode.

Just my observation. Not trying to discredit anyone or cause a problem.
I'm just stating what I have seen and what I know.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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TedMarlett 16 years ago

Kim,

This is an outstanding post. I agree 100% with what you said.

I have been sitting and reading for two years and have finally decided to take action. I am with Michael's group and have learned a lot.

I do think that a mentor should "demand" that their students take action that is visible. Being stern and getting things to happen is a step that must be taken. If people do not want to learn and "do what it takes" to get going then they should probably be dropped.

Steven: You hit the nail on the head well.

There are too many people who want to get into the IM arena that are just not doing the work.

Once again--Great Post
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lakshaybehl

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Wow! Steven, I think that was the first time I had ever seen you post a one liner...lol

J/K.

Kim,

I followed many of the posts you were involved in today and I do understand where you are coming from with your direct replies.

I also understand that people asking for Help don't respond well to stern/direct replies.

Many are despite to succeed and do hope to shorten the learning curve a bit. as a Coach/Mentor myself, I have only one rule so that they remain in my course. The rule is they must perform their tasks assigned.

As long as they do, they can succeed. If they do not, then I drop them like a hot potato and move on to the others doing what needs to be done in order to succeed.

The way I Coach/Mentor is one on one with each client.
This method works well for my members because I hand pick them.

What you have said about they need to learn what we've learned in order to succeed is partly true although they don't have to make the same mistakes we've made in order to do so.

Basically this cuts the learning curve by giving them the right path to follow and also by telling them not to step on the red bricks because they explode.

Just my observation. Not trying to discredit anyone or cause a problem.
I'm just stating what I have seen and what I know.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Michael!

how do you find them? And how dop you test them?

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fxmmorale

16 years ago

Hi Kim,

I couldn't agree with you more. One of the problems with being a noob is getting out of the noob mentality. Getting started online as you know is no cake walk, but at some point you've got to just do it.

When I first started just a few months ago, I had that same noobie mentality, but then something happened...the electric bill, the car note, the mortgage, etc., etc. lol.

That's when you've got to make a decision and crap or get off the pot. The greatest asset any noob can have is this forum. As far as traffic generation goes, the "bum marketing method" is good place to start.

Not only can they get some good quality backlinks to their site, but they can also get some targeted traffic and more importantly develop a level of expertise as a result of the research needed to write decent articles.

Anyway, what do I know?
I'm just a noob:-)

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Hi Kymi,

I know you're a good girl and wouldn't be mean, so I'm sure people probably just mistook your 'realism' for dispassion.

Far be it from me to think I can add anything to your 'plan', but a few extra comments I would make are:

What you've said makes sense - but I think it's missing some vital details.

Have a product, hosting, a website etc.. is all great - but it's not where you make money.

The analogy I would use is that it's like saying I'm going to start an offline business so I need a building, a company name, a till, some carpets and shelves and a stock room.

No-one would deny that those are probably required, however what type of business you're going to have, where you're going to open your shop, what those people in that location want to buy, and how you're going to promote the business - they're the things that will determine your success. Sometimes you can do what others are doing and just compete on price, sometimes you can compete on quality or service - but having a business and the lease on a property can be done with no chance of success.

Hopefully that makes sense.

It's back to basics - Find a hungry market and plan how to access them with an offer of what they want/need.

Andy

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Me dispassionate lol (Never)

I was desperately hoping people would add to my "plan" I knew it was full of holes. (serves me right for staying up so late). It was just a very basic plan for people to actually get something up there.

So many people shilly shally about (been there done that), and I think it's important to take action, it doesn't matter what your site looks like, just getting it online is a major step.

I can remember when a good friend of mine very first started her online business, she spent absolutely hours, days even weeks trying to perfect her first website before she would even upload it.

I wanted to put my arm through the computer screen, grab her round the neck and batter her. Finally after much cajoling, threatening etc she uploaded it. Her delight was contagious and it spurred her on to complete it.

I'm always at least 2 projects in front of myself. I would imagine most experienced marketer is. But I would reiterate one major point, if you are just starting out, stay focused on the one project at hand.

Kymi

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

Hi Kymi,

Don't get me wrong - I completely agree that action not being taken seems to be where most people fall over.

However, I also know that taking the wrong action is worse than taking no action as you can kid yourself that you're creating something when you're not.

I can drive my car and use lots of time and petrol, but still end up back where I started.

It's the double-edged sword of the advice "just do something", some people use it as a mantra, I see it as either the best advice or the worst advice depending on the person and what they're doing.

I 'just did something' when I started and wasted a long time. The big problem is that when you fill your head with your first picture of how the world of IM is, it's like learning bad habits - it can take a long time to recalibrate if you got it wrong.

Andy

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hmm

I see where you are coming from Andy, and I've definitely been there.

To be honest I'd personally probably use that first site as a test site and build on any knowledge I gained from it when buidling further sites.

So it's not wasted as long as I've learned from it, only if I continue to put up crappy sites which wil go nowhere. (goes back to having to go throught that dreaded learning curve)

Kymi

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AlexR

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hi Kymi,

...However, I also know that taking the wrong action is worse than taking no action as you can kid yourself that you're creating something when you're not.

Andy

Have to disagree there Andy.

Taking NO action literally achieves nothing. Taking action, even if it is the wrong action is part of the learning experience. I defy any marketer here to say that they have never taken action that is wrong and failed in some respect in what they were trying to achieve.

It's best if we learn by other's mistakes, but the next best is to learn from your own.

Alex

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AlexR

You're free to disagree Alex, but I stopped telling people to 'just do something' years ago because I found it's just about the worst advice they could get.

Doing nothing gets you nothing, but planning and building a sensible (realistic) plan that can actually get you the results you desire is not nothing.

Taking actions that are not in support of your goals (whether you realise it or not at the time) is not just a waste of time, it's a compounding negative effect because it also means you've lost time that could've been better spent.

No-one's perfect, but practicing something badly doesn't just mean you're learning, it means you're learning the wrong things while you could've been learning the right ones.

The effect is magnified -it's not just a slower approach, it's an approach that can ruin your chances of getting where you intended. Especially if you're prone to becoming dispondant when things don't work out.

It's the classic recipe for ending up complaining on forums that "i tried that and it didn't work" after doing a half assed effort at something you never really understood before doing.

I'm happy to have you disagree but I'm not going to advocate just doing something because most people don't do anything - it's still not the right answer, it's just not as wrong as doing nothing.

Andy

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Michael Stuart Kelly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Doing nothing gets you nothing, but planning and building a sensible (realistic) plan that can actually get you the results you desire is not nothing.

Taking actions that are not in support of your goals (whether you realise it or not at the time) is not just a waste of time, it's a compounding negative effect because it also means you've lost time that could've been better spent.

Andy,

You know, I found this observation to be true on my own. You can waste an awful lot of time spinning wheels.

The first action a person needs to take is to make a rational plan--his own plan. A written one, if he is a newbie, with a step-by-step process and the results expected.

When I read all the books claiming you must take action now, something inside me cries out, "Please put the word intelligent or goal-directed in there!"

I do understand that they are addressing the mental lull people get into, giving in to just dreaming and/or fears, but there must be a forcible way of saying it.

"You must take intelligent action now!"

"You must take goal-directed action now!"

Those don't seem as forcible as: "You must take action now!"

Maybe something like: "Do it now! And give it your best shot!"

(pause...)

I just thought about it and I like that one. It just popped out as I was writing this post, a blurt, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. I think I will start using it in my future products.

Michael

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- gragster 16 years ago
  
  Very concise and true it does take work but its worth it when it pays off
  
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AlexR

16 years ago

Well said, Kim.

Oh, for heaven's sake. This sort of thing comes up regularly here.

We should have an ongoing thread that automatically cycles every three months for this topic.

How many times do we have to tell people that we aren't here to play games and that there is no free lunch? We are here to help people build a legitimate business. This doesn't happen at the snap of your fingers. If you want to run a business, you have to understand how to run a business. In 99% of cases, you have to LEARN how to run a business.

There's planning and research involved. Some of the work needed to succeed can be frustrating, time consuming and a pain in the butt, but it has to be done.

There is NO sustainable business in a box that you can buy, install and walk away from and watch the money roll in. You have to work at it...continuously.

Fact!

95% of beginners that come here will fail.
3% will make enough to live on.
1.9% will make reasonable money.
0.1% will make a lot of money
A handful will become millionaires.

These figures vary little from industry to industry, online or offline. Bottom line is that 95% WILL fail. Most won't even understand why they failed because they didn't take the tume to learn how to run a business.

For some it will be a steep learning curve. Not everyone that comes here is computer literate or from an off-line business background.

You don't run a successful business from a wish list. You run it from a plan that has been carefully researched.

There are many elements to starting/running a business and you must understand the principles behind each one to be successful.

Come here with an open mind. Be prepared to learn. When you understand WHY you have to do something, you will have mastered that element. Understanding comes from "why", not "what".

Alex

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AlexR

Summed up nicely Alex.

Kymi

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Michael Stuart Kelly

16 years ago

Hi Kim,

I read the start of that other thread earlier because it piqued my interest, but it had not evolved.

I just read the full thing now and I couldn't help smiling. The guy who started it made his request for a mentor, one minute later made an identical request, but curiously quoted himself from the first post. So within 2 posts right at the start of a thread, he said the following phrase 3 times:

"can any one pls mentor me on internet marketing. am a newbie"

Nothing further. No information on himself or any specifics. Just that phrase. 3 times.

Now here comes the funny part. Things went haywire with several people and a mini-meltdown started, but this guy didn't post anything else. And he's the one who started it off!

I wonder if he ever found his mentor...

:-)

btw - I believe being a bit harsh is a good way to filter out deadbeat freeloaders, so I do not fault you and some of the others for insisting on hard work. I guess the trick is finding a proper balance between stroke and slap. In my experience, there is no hard rule for this. It varies as much as people do, so it has to be judged case by case. A tiny slap will devastate one person while another gets going only after a hard whop. Another might be brilliant, but always needs a morale boost from having weak self-esteem, etc.

There is one constant, though. I personally hold that being a newbie does not come with any special privileges and guarantees. The market is the same for everyone, from newbie to guru. Customers do not have newbie money and guru money. They spend the same money on both. So it's a good idea for all newbies to get in that mindset right from the outset. (I speak as a relative newbie to IM myself.)

Otherwise, I might have a DVD and workbook package for a newbie who wants preferential treatment. I will teach him the one true infallible secret to becoming a millionaire--no a gazillionaire--without any effort or learning on his part other than pushing a button. He won't even have to put up a website.

But WAIT! It gets better. This secret is so powerful that he won't even have to turn on his computer! That will be optional. The money will just float down from the skies. He will wish and it will happen. The Law of Attraction wedded to the Cash Money Magnet!

And it will only cost him a paltry $1,997!

How cool is that?

(That doesn't include the mentoring part, though, which is only a measly $19,997 for the first 10 aspiring disciples and comes with a personalized Gmail account for easy access to my mentoring sessions, a deluxe carton of hand-polished silver bullets and a sexy lady. But after that, the price will go up.)

:-)

Michael

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Chipt

16 years ago

Brilliant, Michael... may I please be the first sign up?

You have just acheived Guru-On-Steroids status and you'll eclipse all guru records [real and false] currently known to man...

People will bow to the east and speak your name in quiet circles, pushing out their current guru idols for sure...

I want in... I want in...

Chip Tarver

PS - I can see it now... the Oscars, Tonys, and Emmys are now all replaced by the Michaels... bravo, bravo... [loud applause heard] and the red carpet is now dollar bill green...

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Michael Stuart Kelly

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Chipt

PS - I can see it now... the Oscars, Tonys, and Emmys are now all replaced by the Michaels... bravo, bravo... [loud applause heard] and the red carpet is now dollar bill green...

Chipt,

Dayaamm!

After that, you get the freebie package. (Just send me your credit card details for shipping and I promise I won't keep billing it... LOL... sorry, I can't keep this up...)

Michael

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JayXtreme

16 years ago

Nuthin like a bit of tough love to do the Job..

Spot on Kim..

If people paid more attention to the goodness in those harsh words, instead of just seeing them as harsh words... they'd do a great load for themselves..

Jay

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Heather Bestel

16 years ago

Hi Kim & everyone on this thread

I'm a newbie and I don't think they were harsh words, I think they were spot on.

I've come on WF to learn. I want to listen to the wisdom on here and take some action. I'm prepared to put in the hard work.

I know you guys will help me if I have a question or need some guidance, but I would never sit back and expect you to do it for me. That would feel disrespectful.

Thank you for your honest straight talking Kim. I don't believe for one second that I've taken an easy road and, as a newbie, I need to know that.

It might be a tough journey ahead but I'm going to have loads of fun and achieve my dreams.

Heather

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr.P

I'm dumb when it comes to tool's and stuff. I tried XSP and got confused as hell. If you dont have the cash to buy XSP or learn it...just get NVU its free and even more simple.

XSP is one of the easiest tools on the net to use.

If I can use it, anyone can (yeah NVU is ok) there are some other quite decent free ones out there as well. I chose XSP because it does a lot of the other stuff for you as well

Kymi

A belated welcome to the forum Heather

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Heather Bestel

16 years ago

Just found this apt quote:

"If it's worth having, it's worth working hard for"

Can't see who it's attributed to though - so apologies.

I will stick it on my wallpaper.

Heather

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Martin Luxton

16 years ago

Kim

The best advice really is to get a (targeted) site up.

A while back I set up my lazyrockstar site to promote some videos. I tried to make some changes and I screwed it up completely. I spent ages trying to fix it and then Youtube got banned so I left it.
Two days ago I made a sale. I don't know how because the site is really hard to navigate and I haven't promoted it.
So if you can make a site that looks better than the second one in my sig file . . .

Martin

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Ken Leatherman

16 years ago

Hi Kymi,

You know for Old Geezer's (me not you) when you have a lifetime of experience (failure/success) it can be difficult to change your mindset.

However, when someone gives a direct answer, speaks with authority and conviction that is when noobs or otherwise should sit up and listen. That's not harsh or being mean. It's called being straight forward.

I use the KISS principal to start my new projects and develop from there. It works for me and I know it will work for others. But without action (wrong or right) it's a no go.

Thanks to all you that have contributed to a good thread.

Ken Leatherman
The Old Geezer

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KristenArnold 16 years ago

Hi Kim,

I've been cruising thru the posts and I actually have been surprised by some of the replies both recently and in the past.

Since I'm in a non-IM niche I was getting frustrated with people calling me (on my toll free #) and asking me for business/product advice and when I actually started tracking the time, I found that I was spending 10 hours a week giving out free advice to other people and helping them along in their personal challenges.

I am all for paying it forward, but it was interfering with my own work and family. Since I started learning how to leverage information marketing I put up a new website just to help these new to business people and will be selling short reports and membership for step by step bite size info. I hope this will help benefit all those that are involved, for me it will bring my sanity back while I know I'm providing quality information that they can use at a very low price (maybe too low..) but at least I can re-direct people to that source and not feel like I'm not being helpful.

I think we all have the same battles of wanting to help others but there is still only 24 hours in a day and if your going to put the energy into someone you want to see it be put to use.

You did a nice job of giving clear directions and just get it up in cyber world and then tweak and improve.
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- D.K. Magnus 16 years ago
  
  Harsh or realistic??!!!!
  
  I wish I would have read this post a year ago.
  
  I might not have gotten so lost on the IM highway!
  
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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman

Hey Ken

Re the pm I sent you, (you did it lol)

Nice to see someone else using the KISS principle.

The yardstick I use when developing something is to simply ask. "Can I either use it or do it"

If it passes the simple Kymi test, then I know it's ok for other people.

Why I'm surprised one poster says he had problems with XSP, its mega easy to use.

Cheers
Kymi

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Stuart Kelly

lol where do I join up, you should be running seminars.

I remember well when I was a Noob, it was 7 years ago but I do remember it very well.

I came online without even having much experience of surfing the web. (There wasn't a lot to surf then)! so I was really starting from scratch.

My first product was an ebook I wrote on backcare, (hmm I could really do to update that and relaunch it), and because I was such a noob, I had to ask other people to do absoultely everything for me online.

I met some fabulous people, (some of whom are huge names now), Gosh I can remember when Anik Singal was this really bright kid asking questions on the How To forum lol.

I used to just contact people and ask them questions, I think it tickled them that a nurse was trying to make a go of it on the net. (I wouldn't suggest using this method now BTW).

Thing is, everything was so much more accesible then. (including people), hell even spam had only just stopped being used as a marketing tool by some top marketers...

Funnily enough the only time I ever got scammed was by a local chap who was building my very first website over at www.nursing-hints.com. (and I haven't touched that one in a long time).

It was hard work then, I can only imagine how much harder it is now. Then you could build a website and be making sales just by organic traffic and links within days!

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say, is all of us who make a living online were noobs at one time, and I would imagine most of us burnt the midnight oil most days trying to get it to work.

BTW one of the worst things I think you can do, is try and start an online business when you're down to your last dollar. (there is a total feeling of panic because you HAVE to make it work), and I suspect that's where people start maxing credit cards etc trying to find the next magic solution, I would suggest those are the people who are very susceptible to the get rich quick schemes.

lol I never did subscribe to the notion about sitting on the beach tapping at my laptop, (think of all that sand)

I think I need a coffee

Kymi

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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

I met some fabulous people, (some of whom are huge names now), Gosh I can remember when Anik Singal was this really bright kid asking questions on the How To forum lol.

Kymi

Hehe - that made me laugh.

That's the same for me.

When I see Anik speaking at seminars and being a 'Guru', I still can't help but remember the excitable kid from that forum. It seems like just a few months ago but it's several years now.

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Michael Stuart Kelly 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

I never did subscribe to the notion about sitting on the beach tapping at my laptop, (think of all that sand)

Kim,

You mean you don't make money working a laptop on the beach?

Oh my God! I have to revise everything!

Hmmmmm...

Maybe a course?

How's this?

SECRET NEW SEASHELL METHOD SHOWS YOU HOW TO UNLOCK HIDDEN TREASURE BURIED IN THE...

ok

enough

:-)

btw - What's it like to be an Internet Goddess? I thought Goddesses lived on beaches...

Thinking about becoming a Deity myself one day...

Michael
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Kim Standerline 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Kim,

I followed many of the posts you were involved in today and I do understand where you are coming from with your direct replies.

Michael

lol I spent far too much time on the warriors yesterday

Kymi
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Doug

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

Think carefully about what it is you want to actually do (and stick with it). One of the worst things many of us do is jump from project to project without actually finishing anything.

I would recommend spending a lot of time right here on
this point of Kim's, life is far to short to miss out on putting
your efforts into the truly meaningful.

I know, this sounds all philosphical, you get to decide what
is meaningful- that's my point.

Doug

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Chipt 16 years ago

IMO, one important aspect not mentioned so far is that before they go through the gyrations and steep learning curve, someone should teach them about target markets... because choosing the wrong one makes them swim upstream toward immediate failure.

... how to determine and find a good one...

... where they hang out now...

... what they buy now...

... how much they spend now...

... how to determine supply, demand, and saturation...

... how to resesarch any niches...

... how to survey people in any niche...

... the differences between passion and popularity...

Well -- that's plenty I suppose to get someone started.

Chip Tarver

PS - And, if someone would teach them about building the right online relationships, they could shortcut a lot of the painfull blind curves, overspending, time wasting, and info glut so many people suffer though at first, as well...
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