Do newbies even stand a chance against professional marketers?

42 replies
Hi!

I had written a big long post about a site I found that I was amazed at, but decided afterwards a short & sweet post would probably be better.

I came across an (affiliate) review site that had all the elements of a successful site, and was amazed at the level of detail:
  • Everything from the professional site design
  • To every means of promotion possible (article marketing/social bookmarking/interlinking, etc, etc) + stealth marketing,
  • To the social engineering aspect (hey! i'm like you, just a regular guy, but I found this amazing product! shhh! don't tell anyone!), etc, etc.
  • To the other forms of media (videos, articles, opt-in forms, cut & paste links, bookmark here/there), etc, etc.
Another craze that has gotten really popular the last little while is simply taking "public domain" works, rebranding (creating a .pdf file with your name/website on it), and then selling the "books" on amazon, or using it to get longtail keywords/traffic on an existing website, etc etc.

When you have marketers promoting sites (& affiliate products) in this fashion, do you feel a 'newbie' even stands a chance? I think yes, but I can see how some might get easily discouraged when they are up against this level of competition. What do you think?
#chance #marketers #newbies #professional #stand
  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
    Totally depends. One of the worst things I see is newbies trying to go after giant niches - like make money online or weight loss - that are so totally saturated by the major players. Yeah, you're not going to do well if you're competing for the same keywords as someone with a million dollar marketing budget.

    Instead, find your own piece of the pie. There are plenty of niches and plenty of keywords that aren't competitive - when you find one of those, you won't need all of the items you describe above to gain a foothold and start making money.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbie kye
      Originally Posted by Sarah Russell View Post

      Totally depends. One of the worst things I see is newbies trying to go after giant niches - like make money online or weight loss - that are so totally saturated by the major players. Yeah, you're not going to do well if you're competing for the same keywords as someone with a million dollar marketing budget.

      Instead, find your own piece of the pie. There are plenty of niches and plenty of keywords that aren't competitive - when you find one of those, you won't need all of the items you describe above to gain a foothold and start making money.
      Agree with you. I will not take on the big players and spend years, time and money to achieve nothing. Everyone has a good chance of succeeding. Start with something less competitive and gradually build on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO-Boca-Raton
        Originally Posted by abbie kye View Post

        Agree with you. I will not take on the big players and spend years, time and money to achieve nothing. Everyone has a good chance of succeeding. Start with something less competitive and gradually build on it.
        I think the key here is when you first start out you have to find something, anything that you enjoy and believe in to promote.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    Yes, every professional was once a newbie

    Anthony Robbins did seminars with 2 people in a room, now thousands. If he got discouraged, he would not get to the goal.

    Cheers,
    Mukul
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    • Profile picture of the author Jude.A
      Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

      Yes, every professional was once a newbie

      Anthony Robbins did seminars with 2 people in a room, now thousands. If he got discouraged, he would not get to the goal.

      Cheers,
      Mukul
      That answers it.
      Of course newbies stand a chance against professional marketers. A newbie just have to be determined to get there and he has to remain focused.
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  • Profile picture of the author actionplanbiz
    i think the make money online nich is still a good niche for newbies to enter.
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    • Profile picture of the author DeadGuy
      Think of experienced marketers vs. newbie as the British Navy against the Spanish Armada. You may just need to find a way to attack your niche in a different fashion. Find a way to out flank them with lighter weight, less competitive, keywords and perhaps some unique companion offerings and you might stand a chance. Yes, even in the notorious make money online niche. A lot of work but it can be done.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by DeadGuy View Post

        Think of experienced marketers vs. newbie as the British Navy against the Spanish Armada. You may just need to find a way to attack your niche in a different fashion.
        And outsource.

        Lord Howard of Effingame was in command of the British Navy at Gravelines. Looking at the Armada on the horizon, he realised that he had no experience fighting Spanish galleons, and little hope of winning.

        So he turned to Francis Drake, a Royally-chartered privateer who had spent years raiding Spanish freighters in the Caribbean, and handed over control of the fleet.

        Lord Howard may not be widely remembered for this, but the alternative was to be widely remembered for a tragic and devastating loss.
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        • Profile picture of the author DeadGuy
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          And outsource.

          Lord Howard of Effingame was in command of the British Navy at Gravelines. Looking at the Armada on the horizon, he realised that he had no experience fighting Spanish galleons, and little hope of winning.

          So he turned to Francis Drake, a Royally-chartered privateer who had spent years raiding Spanish freighters in the Caribbean, and handed over control of the fleet.

          Lord Howard may not be widely remembered for this, but the alternative was to be widely remembered for a tragic and devastating loss.
          A gentleman and a scholar!
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          You are making this work at home stuff way harder than it is. Ready for some sanity? Clear your head and start over.

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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by actionplanbiz View Post

      i think the make money online nich is still a good niche for newbies to enter.
      That would be "the blind leading the blind" niche, no doubt.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Online Bliss
    Believe it or not most newbies do not follow the Gurus
    simply because the price of their product is much
    too expensive for them.
    They may opt-in for free pdf reports
    but they cut their teeth with affordable tutorials first
    and of course the Warrior Forum.
    So yes you have a chance!:rolleyes:

    Some may disagree but that's my 2cents.

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    • Profile picture of the author NeilC
      Just like picking the right opponent, choose wrongly and you'll get slammed or at least beaten back a lot.

      Choose less competitive products, smaller niches, or as they say "think outside the box" a little and there are plenty of ways to get good results.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO-Boca-Raton
        Originally Posted by NeilC View Post

        Just like picking the right opponent, choose wrongly and you'll get slammed or at least beaten back a lot.

        Choose less competitive products, smaller niches, or as they say "think outside the box" a little and there are plenty of ways to get good results.
        There is much to be said for learning the ropes though, getting slammed hard and learning a valuable lesson is key in this industry.

        If you are not stretching yourself then you are doing yourself a disservice!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mountainbird
      Originally Posted by Online Bliss View Post

      Believe it or not most newbies do not follow the Gurus simply because the price of their product is much too expensive for them.
      I did follow the Guru (John Reese and his Outsource Force) but I'm burned to dead today!

      If anybody want to know more about this issue please send me a PM.
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      :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
    This is a silly question.

    Everyone does things differently, professional or not. It's about finding something that works and making it work harder for you.

    Nothing to do with newbie or professional. But of course newbies stand less chance in the marketing arena. Afterall they need to learn.
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    Started this stuff 2009. Time is what will teach you the skills you need.

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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    There are billions of people in the world. Do you really think that 50 or 60 thousand professional marketers can reach them all? Find your path and dig into it. The title of this thread is fuel for the "I can't do it" fire.
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  • Profile picture of the author edwinkoh
    With the internet today, giants need not necessarily win every fight.

    The Ashton Kutcher/CNN twitter duel is a great example.

    I think newbies still stand a chance at winning, esp with leverage tools like article directories, PPC (everyone can rank there as long as you do it well), social bookmarking.

    Furthermore the big guns also started out as newbies too, and they also survived. As T. Harv Eker said it best with "Every master was once a disaster."
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  • Profile picture of the author aaramire
    As a newbie,

    At first it can seem over-whelming and it hurts the bottom line when you are spending money on products that are way over-priced.

    Once the dust settles however, you find great resources like this forum.

    I think it's all a matter of being determined and focused.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Mcalorum
    professional marketers started out as newbies.

    plain as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Everyone has to start somewhere, but at least you know how high to set your goals and standards. Work at it and put real effort into it. Personally, I'd stay away from real competitive niches, but there's nothing to prevent you from developing high quality sites, even if you need some help from outsourcers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    I have been watching John Reese today with his opportunity.com and realized that he does not make money since he knows a lot more then many of us, he makes money because he is a smart at simplifying processes & acting on them, especially when it comes to marketing (thats a compliment John if your Google Alert picks this up) . His thinking are similar to mine, but I am all over the place and sometimes do things the hard way, I am changing that now

    Cheers,
    Mukul
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  • Profile picture of the author statelizard
    Of course they can. Marketing is no different than anything else you do in life as far as a career is concerned. Everyone starts somewhere, some people have a natural gift, and others need to work harder to achieve the success they want. Being a newbie just means that you can learn from the mistakes others have made.

    And as far as following the guru's, there isn't anything that anyone of them is going to tell you, that you can't find somewhere else for free. Are you going to be able to compete with their marketing budget, of course not. So you have to find a way to get people to your offers on the cheap. The best way to do that is to produce quality products, offers, and content. Then market the hell out of them. Articles, videos, social networks, and other avenues are all ways you get people to notice you and don't cost a dime. What they do cost is time, and just like in everything else time=money. So learn as much as you can, develop a plan of action, and follow it through. Once you get to work, use your time wisely, and the money will start coming in. Once the money starts coming in use it to reinvest in your business and you'll see the "snowball" effect that has. Eventually you won't be a newbie, and someday maybe you'll be the person the newbie is dreading having to compete with.

    Another thing that was mentioned that I completely disagree with is the niche selection for newbies. Don't limit yourself to only competing in certain niches because they're so big. Huge niches are huge for a reason, because there are massive amounts of people that are interested. Go after some of the big guys market share, write better content, present your message in a more creative way, do what they're doing but talk to your audience in a way they understand better. There isn't anything that has ever been done that can't be improved upon, so be the one to improve it. If you want to enter the weight loss niche, by all means do, but put your best effort into it. Competition breeds creativeness, if you want to be the best, then you need to do it. Enough of the woe is me attitude. Be yourself, there are other people out there just like you, they're going to relate to you better than they relate to someone else.

    One of the biggest problems I see from most newbies, and I was guilty of this when I started, is that they're always trying to sell. The A-B-C's are a crock of ****. People don't want to be told to buy this, don't buy that anymore, they want to know WHY they should buy this or not buy that. Show them the benefits, give them the information, make it at sound honest, and then say "hey, see how great this is, making the purchase is as simple as clicking here". Don't oversell, relate to your audience, tell them why what you're selling will make their lives better, and they'll buy it. It really is as simple as that.

    Sorry that turned into a rant. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I just couldn't stop.

    Josh
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Rogers
      Originally Posted by statelizard View Post

      Of course they can. Marketing is no different than anything else you do in life as far as a career is concerned. Everyone starts somewhere, some people have a natural gift, and others need to work harder to achieve the success they want. Being a newbie just means that you can learn from the mistakes others have made.

      And as far as following the guru's, there isn't anything that anyone of them is going to tell you, that you can't find somewhere else for free. Are you going to be able to compete with their marketing budget, of course not. So you have to find a way to get people to your offers on the cheap. The best way to do that is to produce quality products, offers, and content. Then market the hell out of them. Articles, videos, social networks, and other avenues are all ways you get people to notice you and don't cost a dime. What they do cost is time, and just like in everything else time=money. So learn as much as you can, develop a plan of action, and follow it through. Once you get to work, use your time wisely, and the money will start coming in. Once the money starts coming in use it to reinvest in your business and you'll see the "snowball" effect that has. Eventually you won't be a newbie, and someday maybe you'll be the person the newbie is dreading having to compete with.

      Another thing that was mentioned that I completely disagree with is the niche selection for newbies. Don't limit yourself to only competing in certain niches because they're so big. Huge niches are huge for a reason, because there are massive amounts of people that are interested. Go after some of the big guys market share, write better content, present your message in a more creative way, do what they're doing but talk to your audience in a way they understand better. There isn't anything that has ever been done that can't be improved upon, so be the one to improve it. If you want to enter the weight loss niche, by all means do, but put your best effort into it. Competition breeds creativeness, if you want to be the best, then you need to do it. Enough of the woe is me attitude. Be yourself, there are other people out there just like you, they're going to relate to you better than they relate to someone else.

      One of the biggest problems I see from most newbies, and I was guilty of this when I started, is that they're always trying to sell. The A-B-C's are a crock of ****. People don't want to be told to buy this, don't buy that anymore, they want to know WHY they should buy this or not buy that. Show them the benefits, give them the information, make it at sound honest, and then say "hey, see how great this is, making the purchase is as simple as clicking here". Don't oversell, relate to your audience, tell them why what you're selling will make their lives better, and they'll buy it. It really is as simple as that.

      Sorry that turned into a rant. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I just couldn't stop.

      Josh
      Hi Josh,

      Well said and I don't take it as a rant. It is good advice well meant.

      I am pretty new to IM and only just at the point of launching my 2nd site (the first was a total failure), this time with the benefit of partners who know what they are doing. "Budding guru's" I would call them, so I don't think all guru's are bad to listen to.

      I agree there should be no fear of entering into a huge niche market. After all, when you want to buy anything, say for instance a balloon, the first place you look is where ballooons are advertised, not where fishing hooks are advertised!

      So it seems pretty logical for all us newbies, that if you want to sell balloons you place your advert where the big and successful balloon sellers place theirs. You may be one of many, but you are in the right place. That is where balloon buyers look.

      There could be thousands or even millions (perhaps a bit optimistic, but you get my drift) of people out there who want to buy balloons on the internet, so if you can make your advert stand out just a little, and it only needs a little, you will get some of those millions buying from you. If you have just yourself to look after, you need only a tiny proportion to come to you in order to succeed.

      You are not like the big balloon corporations who have huge overheads to support. But one day: who knows? In the meantime, listen to people like Josh and don't be afraid of promoting your products along with the biggies and taking advantage of the very fact that they are there.

      I have made many mistakes, but now I feel I am on the right road (see my post of today's date on "Mind Warriors, etc." section under Mario's thread: "Newbies, PLEASE WAKE UP! The Truth About Internet Marketing"). As I state there, I'll bet there are many of you out there like me and it may give you some encouragement to keep going AND continue to listen to the good sense of people like Josh, 'the statelizard'.

      Thanks again Josh and I hope this 'post from a newbie' adds some benefit to the advice you offer.

      Regards

      Richard.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground SEO
    People new to IM stand a very good chance of success. Everyone had to start somewhere, just keep testing to find a strategy that works and sit with it and wait to see the results
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    That's why I recommend starting with Adsense. There's no selling, no pre-sell, no sales funnel to put together. Just research the niche, evaluate your competition, write articles and send traffic to your sites. I know it's more than that, but it is the path of least resistance IMO.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    The truth is that it's DIFFICULT but not IMPOSSIBLE, but
    the newbies have to really know what they are doing and
    have to take the time in doing what needs to be done.

    For example, Triscall Bull is a warrior here who made
    $750,000+ in a launch few years back, without being a
    professional marketer. So, it CAN be done.

    Kingsley
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    When a Turtle's eggs hatch and 100 little turtles spring to life all racing for the water. Nature culls the numbers down so only the strong/ fast/lucky 5% survive. That's life in all aspects.

    Let's face it....most people will not succeed in any business. some people can make a success of any field they go into. That's life. I know some people who succeed well in everything they do...and i know some people will never succeed in anything they try. Emotional intelligence is way more impotant than tech. knowledge I.M.H.O. But guess what most focus on?

    Watch Jerry Springer...... that's probably your average "bizz opp seeker"

    Still, some of the sales copy does entice them a little too easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Yeah..maybe but a list of 500,000 rabid buyers and a J.V. parterships with hundreds of other gurus sure does help his cause. :-)

    I have been watching John Reese today with his opportunity.com and realized that he does not make money since he knows a lot more then many of us, he makes money because he is a smart at simplifying processes & acting on them, especially when it comes to marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author Icanwrite
    Yes ofcourse newbies DO stand a chance. Even an IM guru must've been a newbie ones - he was not born with the knowledge of how to become an online millionaire ! so, everyone has to start somewhere..
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMaker Guy
    If you are a newbie and feel intimidated, get a mentor who has made it in IM and follow the rules to make yourself into an accomplished marketer as quickly as possible. I don't think it matters which niche you want to target as long as you take action on the right advice
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  • Profile picture of the author Rembo
    All the succes stories of farm boys making a million have one thing in common; they took a unique approach to solving their problem.

    You can't compete with the big boys in their game. So instead make your own game. The head start is your advantage.

    Translation: find your unique way to 1) get visitors to your niche and 2) convert them.

    Use unique/low competition key words, unique niche, unique solution etc.

    Rembo
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  • Profile picture of the author pkornmann
    I certainly hope so since I have taken the big leap into it this years. I like statelizard's comments. I think you can achieve success in anything if you are willing to work hard and learn. It's not easy but it is very rewarding to making it on your own. Keep trying and take failures as a learning experience. Tell yourself you will be successful and believe it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chloe Sloane
    I hope there's room for newbies to compete. I'm up and coming! Look out!
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    All professional marketers were newbies at one time or another. However, they worked hard and learned the ropes. Eventually, when you learn more advanced marketing tactics you can really elevate your income to a new level.

    Can newbies compete? Yes. But it takes work.
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  • Profile picture of the author helpfulbiz2
    Of course there is you need look no further than the number of new company start-up while the economy goes down the plug hole.
    Every one of the new companies belief that they have something which will succeed and some of them will go on to become the new giants, that is called optimism.
    Some times it is best not to ask too many question but simply just go for it.
    I wish you every success.
    Fred
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  • Profile picture of the author vipseo
    Everything you need to know about SEO is right in front of you on your computer... the key is research, trial and error... especially when it comes to getting your site found. My advice is always check your results and ask for references before giving any part of your SEO campaign to a freelancer...
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  • Profile picture of the author NeilC
    What do you class as a "professional" marketer?

    Someone who is an employee of a marketing company and is allowed to spend thousands per week on paid advertising but doesn't have to be seen to "turn a profit" as such because it's part of a large client's advertising budget which can be difficult to accurately assess.

    Or someone who started 6 months ago and now makes over $5,000/month profit driving natural search traffic to niche websites?

    (Not me by the way I've been full time for a lot longer than that)

    So of course there's room for so called "newbies" they just need to learn the basics and then get on with it!

    Neil
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  • Profile picture of the author juansaldivar
    Yes, but you gotta start small and build from there. Every guru started from scratch, and there is no reason that if you persist and keep going you are going to be one someday in your niche. You just need to get rid of what people call "Instant Gratification" mindset, becuase you won't see the results today, just learn the fundamentals of marketing, select a profitable niche you may be passionate about and have some talent, and start blogging, build a list, do some SEO and advertising and start building your fans, and then you are going to be able to make some serious moolah.
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  • Profile picture of the author va_mom
    This is so helpful. This took my fear away. I now believe i can make it in this field, just pure determination, research and continuous learning from the experts.

    There is nothing wrong with failing... but you have stand up and try again!

    Thanks for the share everyone!
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  • Profile picture of the author MrDay
    You gotta start somewhere. The best way to become successful at internet marketing is by your own experience.

    Also, a smart newbie learns from what the experts do.
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  • Profile picture of the author jking2
    Yes,

    Everyone that is an internet marketing genuis, or guru, was once a newbie without knowledge. So for those who are just starting out, of course they have a chance.

    Now they may not have results in 1 or 2 days, but consistentcy and effort is the name of the game when it comes to online marketing. Especially for newbies.

    Mike Dillard, with his courses, has taught many of the top internet marketers what they know now. And they were once newbies as well.

    So just as long an internet newbie are taught how to market, they can succeed.
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