Internet Gurus Launches Going To New Lows?

38 replies
I have been online making money for over 10 years now but only got into Internet marketing as you know if two and a half years ago when I bought Jeff Walkers Product launch formula and frank kern's mass control. Both were great products and using many of the ideas in them enabled me to triple the revenue in my online business in a year and I have plans developing that I believe will enable me to double it again in the next year.

It takes work.

I also have bought products and into some of the other launches. Some of the products were good some not so good, but overall I have learned a lot and it has helped me. I implement what I think needs to be done.

However, it seems to me that the internet guru group is sinking to new lows or something. They are starting to get a low class feel to their launches. It is starting to look like biz-op stuff.

And the launches are all starting to look identical. All using the same system, same graphics, even saying the same things in their videos. It is getting cheesy.

They have always been promoting each other in their "syndicate" group imagining that they are gangsters. But now they are doing a promotion every single week and many of the products are simply subpar.

Their standards appear to be dropping.

It almost looks to me like the syndicate group has decided to just burn and churn their email lists. It makes it look like they either are completely desperate for money and will do anything for it or else just decided screw the people on these lists just hype them up and if they don't buy who cares someone else will take their place. I rarely open their emails anymore. They have become boring and devoid of any content anyway.

Jeff Walker is doing one in a few weeks. His is usually one of the biggest of the year and he has a good product. I will be curious to see what he does. Will it be anything different or just the same thing over again - the 4-5 videos with the same website design that when you see over and over again bores you and just reminds you that it is all a big email burn and churn system. Maybe it was always like this and you don't notice so much at first and then you just see the same thing over and over again and get soured on it.
#gurus #internet #launches #lows
  • Profile picture of the author JK Nyerere
    You are probably on too many lists.

    Unsubscribe to 95% and your problem will be solved.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2142973].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      I'm not sure if they are going to new lows or not, but you are right about one thing...most of the courses and launches are starting to look exactly the same.

      Keep this in mind though...to you and I being on this forum, other forums, and just being active participants with other members of the community, after a while it's hard for ANYTHING to appear to be new.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2142993].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        I'm not sure if they are going to new lows or not, but you are right about one thing...most of the courses and launches are starting to look exactly the same.

        Keep this in mind though...to you and I being on this forum, other forums, and just being active participants with other members of the community, after a while it's hard for ANYTHING to appear to be new.
        Right! We're all jaded *******s...and that *only* comes with experience!

        Cheers,
        Steve
        Signature

        Not promoting right now

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145430].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
    If I gathered correctly, all the recent guru-launches were using the Kajabi platform and were based on video marketing by Andy Jenkins. It really is striking how identical they all looked.

    If the standards really are slipping and the old-schoolers are burning their lists out (I don't know as I've never bought into a $2000 product), then that's good news in my eyes. Means that there will be more room at the top for newcomers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143023].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I don't worry about what the gurus do.

      I concentrate on my own business.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143035].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I don't worry about what the gurus do.

        I concentrate on my own business.
        Words of wisdom from Steven Wagenheim

        EDIT: Seriously though, you guys shouldn't be worrying about
        gurus and product launches unless that were your business model.
        Signature

        “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143548].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
          Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

          Words of wisdom from Steven Wagenheim

          EDIT: Seriously though, you guys shouldn't be worrying about
          gurus and product launches unless that were your business model.
          Didn't see anything about anybody worrying about anyone else.

          It's always informative to watch a GURU launch and how it is executed. If you are not watching such sales leaders, you are missing out on learning some new strategies.

          Personally, I learned a lot from the Video Boss launch, and by simply watching it, i was taking care of my own business.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144045].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            Didn't see anything about anybody worrying about anyone else.

            It's always informative to watch a GURU launch and how it is executed. If you are not watching such sales leaders, you are missing out on learning some new strategies.

            Personally, I learned a lot from the Video Boss launch, and by simply watching it, i was taking care of my own business.
            Yes, by all means focus on the word I used. Sheesh.

            Would the words concern myself with what the gurus do gone down
            better with you?

            Again...sheesh. :rolleyes:
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144059].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Marty S
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Yes, by all means focus on the word I used. Sheesh.

              Would the words concern myself with what the gurus do gone down
              better with you?

              Again...sheesh. :rolleyes:
              Well, it did come across as uppity :-) and although I understood Steve, I think it's important for the OP and like-minded to know, that even though most experienced marketers are not overly worried about what GURUs do, there is a lot of value in watching them.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144099].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                Well, it did come across as uppity :-) and although I understood Steve, I think it's important for the OP and like-minded to know, that even though most experienced marketers are not overly worried about what GURUs do, there is a lot of value in watching them.
                Depends on why you're watching them and what you're getting out of it.

                Problem with observing launches, on the surface (because we never see
                the behind the scenes stuff) is that you really don't know what part of
                the launch made it a success IF it was a success.

                Was it the slickly designed opt in and sales pages....OR...

                Was it because Joe Guru got seventeen other Joe Gurus with lists the
                size of Texas to promote his latest brain child?

                That's why I take all the superficial stuff (which is the only thing we get
                to see) with a grain of salt.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144425].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Marty S
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  That's why I take all the superficial stuff (which is the only thing we get
                  to see) with a grain of salt.
                  Ahhh you see... this is misguided IMHO in regards to so many GURU launches. The Video Boss videos have improved my own video production two-fold, and I thought I was pretty good at them before! I never sent Andy Jenkins a dime! It was all there in the launch. There were similar benefits with Kern's launch too. I even learned some points from Reese who made me sit through 4 rather nauseating launch videos.

                  So as the OP has asked about the marketing blitz tactics, and many like you have just ignored (at least publicly stated) GURU launches, there was definitely value in watching them for me. I hardly ever fail to pick up a tactic or two.

                  Am I worried? Certainly not. That was just not pertinent to the topic. Am I interested in what is working, or can work for me? Am I always looking for good ideas I can rip into my production?

                  Absolutely.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144565].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I don't worry about what the gurus do.

        I concentrate on my own business.
        That is a noble statement, but there is one thing to consider... the successful marketers that are having these huge launches have a staff that has A/B/C/D tested everything prior to launching their products. They know what works and what doesn't work. Refusing to take cues from those that are in the same field as you, but making millions of dollars more, can be a big mistake.

        I read in another thread that you have no desire to make six figures a month. If that is in fact your goal, then you are doing the right thing by ignoring tactics used by those that are successful.
        Signature
        My New Video Series is Free (for now)
        Crazy good marketing tips from the founder of JVZoo.
        Get EBR 365 Now!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144188].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author iamchrisgreen
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I don't worry about what the gurus do.

        I concentrate on my own business.
        Best advice.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144445].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author NK
    Chances are, people are using the system because it works. It's no surprise that people will use what is working. Everyone started doing product launches because it works, people started using videos because it works.

    Now it's starting to become more and more obvious because the templates are beginning to look the same, the videos look the same, graphics, scripts, etc. Boil it down and you will still see the same fundamentals back 2 years ago.

    But you're right, somehow it just feels like Internet Marketers have generally lost most of their creativeness when compared to a few years back.

    What it really comes down to is this: everyone is just taking the latest templates and slapping that up for their products.

    And it won't be long now before someone else comes along with the next great system to copycat and suddenly everyone and their uncles would be using clones of that.
    Signature

    Affiliate Link Cloaking & Tracking Software - The most powerful tool available for affiliate marketers who are sick and tired of making way too little money!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143041].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tradermike2008
      Originally Posted by NK View Post

      Now it's starting to become more and more obvious because the templates are beginning to look the same, the videos look the same, graphics, scripts, etc. Boil it down and you will still see the same fundamentals back 2 years ago.

      But you're right, somehow it just feels like Internet Marketers have generally lost most of their creativeness when compared to a few years back.
      I am in the stock trading niche and for the past two years have been doing "launches" in the Frank Kern/Walker style with great success. I am going to do another one next week and I will most likely make it the last one I do.

      I want to go in another direction, using some of the launch stuff I learned, but just reinvent what I am doing. I do this every couple of years.

      Also one thing that has concerned me is that when you get down to it the internet launches are all designed for email and email lists. They are a great way to get a group of partners to email and promote things in a coordinated fashion. I sometimes wonder if the launches are just as much as about controlling the internet marketing space and affiliates as it is a great marketing techinque for the customers for these gurus.

      One thing that has been taught is that you need to communicate through email like you would your friends because friends use email to communicate with each other. Well that is changing. Now a days more and more people are using facebook to communicate with friends and no longer use email for that purpose. This is going to be even more pronounced as more younger people get into this and time goes on.

      So personally I am going to start to think beyond email and try to do things beyond launches and typical internet marketing. I'm not saying don't use email, but the way people are using it is changing.

      The funadmentals of marketing do not change. The trick is to learn and watch what other people are doing with success and use those ideas to create new things of your own. If you do what someone else is doing then eventually it will lose its effictiveness on day.

      I suspect that these internet launches are going to lose their effectiveness if they already aren't and at some point these IM gurus are going to jump the shark so to speak. Already one of the biggest internet marketing companies has been revealed to be an empty vessel and almost bankrupt this year and nowhere as successful as claimed to be. A few of the gurus in the circle are basically crooks and/or use sleaze ball tactics it makes you wonder about all of them.
      Signature

      I'm the ownder of WallStreetWindow.com where I do several big mega launches a year. I also moderate a mastermind group of financial stock trading/forex marketers and affiliate marketers who shares ideas and a launch calendar check it out: http://theprivatealliance.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143236].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    15 Million people new to trying to make money on line in the last couple years means easy money and products don't have to be all that great to get sold. A laid off and desperate father of 5 will try anything once, maybe more times.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143230].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tradermike2008
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      15 Million people new to trying to make money on line in the last couple years means easy money and products don't have to be all that great to get sold. A laid off and desperate father of 5 will try anything once, maybe more times.
      Personally I'm not interested in building businesses focused on people like that.
      Signature

      I'm the ownder of WallStreetWindow.com where I do several big mega launches a year. I also moderate a mastermind group of financial stock trading/forex marketers and affiliate marketers who shares ideas and a launch calendar check it out: http://theprivatealliance.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143242].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
    Ugh - I tuned those out a long time ago. I used to be a buyer, but got sick of seeing the same old BS repackaged into new $1,000 products. And you know what, I don't always need to be 100% up-to-date on the latest products and strategies. What I'm doing now is working just fine for me
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pyles
    I luckily found out really quick that being on any of their lists was worthless to me. I'd just unsubscribe, they are not rally doing anything unique, I learn more here on the niches I want and I don't have people selling me crap.
    Signature
    --------------
    Click the link above for an amazing ebook writing service,trust me, I know!
    --------------
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    I'm glad I'm not watching...

    I love to observe launches, StomperNet etc... But I stopped watching when they started getting boring, and that was a while ago...

    Do we really care so much what they do?

    I'm much more concerned with how I appear to my own niches
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143274].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    But the TRUTH is this...

    THEY MAKE TONS OF $$$...

    Whether we like them or not,

    Kingsley
    Signature
    Kingged.com Coaching and Partnership Program
    Is The ONLY Coaching Program That Does 99% Of The Work
    TO MAKE MONEY FOR STUDENTS FROM 1ST DAY
    So they EARN while they LEARN

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143343].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    Funny thread. Walker, Jenkins, Kern & Fallon didn't do anything new, really. Don Lapre was doing the same thing for the longest; just with cable TV.

    Before those (afore mentioned) guys started their launch sequences, a fellow Warrior by the name of Ken Star was on the forum yelling at everybody about Internet Infomercials.

    So, those guys simply repackaged something that works. Granted the redundancy of it all is a little boring; but that's only due to the lack of creative energy that went into the repackaging. Not to mention the saturation effect.

    Thing is, (IMHO), there are far more Affiliates than there are actual Product Creators now-a-days, so you're gonna see a lot more adverts for the next "big" launch; which wouldn't be so big if there weren't so many affiliates pushing it.

    These guys know what they're working with and that's why they put the kind of price tags they do on these 'courses'. If they didn't, after everybody ELSE got paid, they wouldn't have diddly to work with. Which seems to be (by all logic) why there are so many back to back launches and also why there is a syndicate.

    What I'm waiting for is for us to get our proverbial heads out of our ashes and start forming the same types of syndicates. I mean, I just saw a dude in the JV section touting that he had 40K (supposedly) responsive list members.

    Then again... who knows... might already be happening and I'm just not a part of it, yet.

    Let's JV!

    PLP,
    tecHead
    Signature
    Learn Everything You Need to Know About CryptoCurrencies
    Automation is the primary conduit to successful relaxation
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143351].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Remember, what you see here, associated with this specific slice of internet marketing in the MMO/biz op niche is a tiny slice of overall internet marketing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143356].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    When you have a headache, it doesn't matter if aspirin is boring or not...it just matters that it works.

    The bottom line is...

    If lots of marketers are repeatedly doing something the same way, it means it likely works...maybe not perfectly, but better than starting from the ground up and guessing

    As you have actually used these techniques and created a successful business, I think the real problem is that you've outgrown these launches. It happens, even if you miss the entertainment value they provide.

    Same with forums...eventually you become the top 10% where the beginners influx makes up the majority...and you end up putting more in that getting out of it.

    C'est la vie
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143409].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Regarding the OP.....honestly, it never crossed my mind since I'm laser-focused on if the product or service meets the needs of my business and then, if I choose to order it, actually use the product or service and base it on those merits. I don't focus on how something is launched unless I think the marketer is doing something illegal or unethical. "Stooping to new lows?" I highly doubt it.

    Like Michael already mentioned, these launches are a very small part of the Internet Marketing e-commerce world. Actually, more like a drop in a very monolithic bucket.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2143542].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author frankm
    The chances are any newbie coming along is going to hear of these big gurus and go sign up for their lists.

    And then when the big launch comes they might jump at it.

    And then in a few years they will be in your position, burnt out by the product launches, and like Stephen recommends, hopefully concentrating on their own business.

    The amount of people looking for online business opportunities is still increasing, so they're a big part of the market.

    And if they have a bit of cash to spend they are particularly vulnerable. I was in this position as a newbie and decided to buy my way to success. Boy, that was expensive!

    Frank
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144096].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    It's called trying to copy those who are successful without bothering to learn why they are successful.

    If someone said they made a million bucks because they had their naked butt shown on their order form, you'd suddenly see a bunch of wannabees showing their butts all over the place.

    And some hacks spewing WSOs every other day would suddenly have a WSO about how to make money using the naked butt technique.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144158].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ryan D
    Banned
    I feel like the hayday of launches was probably 2006-ish. Every since then, I didn't see a ton of value in the products released so can't say if they live up to the hype.

    But I will say that a certain guru should just live off his reputation and stop releasing products. Realistically it's probably only hurting himself. Just put out some free information to make people happy and build your list, send them email with offers, and collect your check. They don't seem to have the support/structure/discipline to run an actual business.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144639].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author colinceres
      The one thing I don't like about some of these "Guru Launches" is their forced continuity. I took one of these continuity offers from a well known guru and when it came to cancel a subscription it was a nightmare. They'd taken a months payment without me knowing. After some screaming and tantrum throwing, they decided to give me my money back. I'll never get involved with another continuity launch.
      Signature

      Please read the Forum Rules affiliate links are NOT permitted

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145309].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Buzzin
    They're just repackaging the stuff that's out there already - most likely free, if not for a fraction of the price - and charging a huge amount, because they're all promoting one another's product.

    I just wouldn't get involved in such scams any more.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145381].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tecHead
      Originally Posted by Buzzin View Post

      They're just repackaging the stuff that's out there already - most likely free, if not for a fraction of the price - and charging a huge amount, because they're all promoting one another's product.

      I just wouldn't get involved in such scams any more.
      I don't think any of the Marketers; (some of y'all call 'em gurus); that have been mentioned here have been involved in any scams.

      I kinna know for a fact that Jenkins, Walker, Kern, Reese & Fallon are all legit.

      As far as repackaging; when I said it, I was referring to the actual "marketing techniques". I think you're referring to the actual "material" they're marketing; which I think is subjective to your own views. The reality of the situation is that pretty much everything in print; (be it digital or analog); has already been covered, at one point or another.

      What those guys are selling is their approach and methodology based on those tried and true techniques. I don't think any of them would say they invented any of the stuff they sell. As a matter of fact, I've heard both Kern and Jenkins refer to some of the earlier pioneers like Dean and Silverman on more than one occassion.

      Do your research, my friend.

      PLP,
      tecHead
      Signature
      Learn Everything You Need to Know About CryptoCurrencies
      Automation is the primary conduit to successful relaxation
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145442].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

        I don't think any of the Marketers; (some of y'all call 'em gurus); that have been mentioned here have been involved in any scams.


        Do your research, my friend.

        PLP,
        tecHead
        Trouble is, when we do our research, we discover that at least 3 of the people you mentioned have some dubious stuff hanging over them either now, or in the recent past.

        The past can't be changed, obviously, but Snow White they most certainly they are not.

        I won't go as far as to say scams, because it hasn't been proven.

        "Mistakes" is probably a fairer word (based on the facts)...and who hasn't made a few of those...?

        Steve
        Signature

        Not promoting right now

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145470].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author tecHead
          Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

          Trouble is, when we do our research, we discover that at least 3 of the people you mentioned have some dubious stuff hanging over them either now, or in the recent past.

          The past can't be changed, obviously, but Snow White they most certainly they are not.

          I won't go as far as to say scams, because it hasn't been proven.

          "Mistakes" is probably a fairer word (based on the facts)...and who hasn't made a few of those...?

          Steve
          Show me a millionaire; (or someone that's at least netted a mil); that doesn't have a couple skeletons in their proverbial closet and I'll show you someone who knows a very good cleaner.
          Signature
          Learn Everything You Need to Know About CryptoCurrencies
          Automation is the primary conduit to successful relaxation
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145525].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
            Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

            Show me a millionaire; (or someone that's at least netted a mil); that doesn't have a couple skeletons in their proverbial closet and I'll show you someone who knows a very good cleaner.
            That's what I said, mate

            Cheers,
            Steve
            Signature

            Not promoting right now

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145541].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Cash37
          List control, Outsource Force, Now PPC Ninja, ummm Eben's product. Did I forget any? Oh yeah, Magic Bullet.

          All are following the same template and like some said, its just a burn and churn at this point.

          There is a major opportunity here for a new "syndicate" to cut through the noise.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145532].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
    Great! The more those guys all start to look the same, the easier it is for the rest of us to stand out.
    Signature
    IMPORTANT MESSAGE: I'm currently on vacation & will answer all messages when I return - Happy Holidays!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145448].message }}

Trending Topics