Will India start outsourcing work to the US/Canada, because it is cheaper here?

82 replies
I've been noticing an interesting trend, and was wondering whether it was just me, or perhaps because of the huge source in 'outsourcing', that outsourcing overall has become more expensive than hiring in North America?

For example, I know I can hire locally to find people to do quality work (whether it's programming, videos, graphic arts) for minimum ~$10/hour, but $20-$30/hour I would probably start get decent/quality work. (Of course, the higher you go, you tend to get better quality/what you pay for).

But what I find amusing/almost a bit ridiculous, is that in what would be considered 'developing' countries, the wages being asked are MORE than US/Canada, and in fact usually ridiculously more. (For example, I had one web development project, that personally would have taken me 3-4 hours to do if I was really focused/intent on just getting it done, and if I recall correctly, for that particular project, received bids in excess of $2,000+)...

Also, for example, I posted a video project (very simple project/straightforward, 10-1 minute videos, for someone who knows what they are doing, about 20-30 minutes, max 2 hours if they take their time).

I am getting bids such as this:

~$200 - Egypt
~$400 - India

Even some bids (for the work required/set of 10-1 minute videos) which are $50-$100, is more than it would cost to hire someone in the US/Canada.

For article writing projects, lets say a batch of 10-500 word articles, I've received bids for $100+, for writers whose first language is obviously not english. (I.e., receiving something like: "Hi sirs, I likes very much doing this project, am skilled in writings such as this and have dones many such things. I know lots about Nuclear Fission, have 5 degrees in nuclear physicz and can rights technical articles no problems")

Just wondering... is it just me? Or does it seem that this is where the industry is headed? (And... almost amusingly... 3-4 years from now... Will you start having companies/individuals from India outsourcing work to the US/Canada?)
#costing #hiring #locally #noticed #outsourcing #trend
  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Three or four years from now, Americans may be sneaking into Mexico to get the good cotton picking jobs.
    Signature
    My New Video Series is Free (for now)
    Crazy good marketing tips from the founder of JVZoo.
    Get EBR 365 Now!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144209].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      Three or four years from now, Americans may be sneaking into Mexico to get the good cotton picking jobs.
      Haha,

      Dude you are funny
      Signature

      “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145201].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author agni
    Outsourcing refers to delegating one’s work which he does not want to do personally for many reasons. This may be lack of knowledge or expertise, or may be to save time and money or else may be out of sheer laziness. Whatever be the reason, every outsourcer looks for quality work. And quality comes with a price tag. The people who quoted $400 with poor English are exceptions and are desperate to get the jobs and want to make a killing in one shot. That can not be said to be the face of Indian outsourcing industry as a whole.

    The fact remains that though English is not the first language, there are millions of well educated and highly qualified people in India who take up jobs they are confident about. Error proof work, strictness in keeping the time line and hard-core dedication to the projects undertaken are the primary reasons why India still remains the number one preferred destination for outsourcing activities. However, the possibility of the reverse trend can not be ruled out in outsourcing if cheap labor is available in plenty without compromising on quality. Similar to the reverse brain drain witnessed now in India. Still the vastness and varieties of jobs that is being handled comfortably by Indians can not seemed to be beaten so easily.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144431].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author remotedb
      Originally Posted by agni View Post

      Outsourcing refers to delegating one's work which he does not want to do personally for many reasons. This may be lack of knowledge or expertise, or may be to save time and money or else may be out of sheer laziness. Whatever be the reason, every outsourcer looks for quality work. And quality comes with a price tag. The people who quoted $400 with poor English are exceptions and are desperate to get the jobs and want to make a killing in one shot. That can not be said to be the face of Indian outsourcing industry as a whole.

      The fact remains that though English is not the first language, there are millions of well educated and highly qualified people in India who take up jobs they are confident about. Error proof work, strictness in keeping the time line and hard-core dedication to the projects undertaken are the primary reasons why India still remains the number one preferred destination for outsourcing activities. However, the possibility of the reverse trend can not be ruled out in outsourcing if cheap labor is available in plenty without compromising on quality. Similar to the reverse brain drain witnessed now in India. Still the vastness and varieties of jobs that is being handled comfortably by Indians can not seemed to be beaten so easily.
      What an out and out load of pure BS. Really this takes the cake. India is the preferred destination for IT outsourcing for one reason and one reason only, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality or skill. It is price period.

      I've been an IT professional for nearly 30 years and have managed offshore teams including Indian teams as well as domestic many many times. My experience has been 100% of the time that any work I've outsourced to offshore Indian teams was of inferior quality, I mean every single time without a single exception, ever. More than half the time, the work had to be scrapped and redone by domestic talent.

      Now it may be that my senior management people who forced me to use outsourced labor were so focused on price that any thought of actual competence was left out of the equation. Truth is, I've worked with a few remarkably skilled Indian developers here in the US, though as with domestic talent, they were the exception not the rule. But the point is that the reason we were outsourcing was price, not skill or quality.

      Nobody in their right mind outsources to India because they are looking for quality. It's always price.
      Signature
      TwEmpire -Build an empire of Twitter followers on autopilot FAST!! Phase I Beta Test Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144745].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by agni View Post

      The fact remains that though English is not the first language, there are millions of well educated and highly qualified people in India who take up jobs they are confident about. Error proof work, strictness in keeping the time line and hard-core dedication to the projects undertaken are the primary reasons why India still remains the number one preferred destination for outsourcing activities.
      Actually, the only reason US outsources to developing countries rather than hiring at home has been price. If prices are rising in India, they will go to the cheapest source. There are millions of highly qualified people in many countries including Philippines, US, Canada, UK, Russia, China, etc. and there's always going to be someone who does it cheaper.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144871].message }}
      • Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Actually, the only reason US outsources to developing countries rather than hiring at home has been price. If prices are rising in India, they will go to the cheapest source. There are millions of highly qualified people in many countries including Philippines, US, Canada, UK, Russia, China, etc. and there's always going to be someone who does it cheaper.
        Interestingly enough, India was just one of the examples.

        Romania, China, some areas in the Phillipines, etc, etc have also been getting pricier. (Some people in China are *ridiculously* high, but it tends to be better quality). Romania is usually pretty good quality too.

        My experience with workers specifically from India has been that usually 50% of the time I can find someone who does excellent work, and then the other 50% it is exceptionally poor, and it is more just how much money you can get for the least amount of work. I did have a project that was supposed to take 1 month that ended up taking about 1 year (and the developer asked for more money, consistently asked to be paid 90% of the amount to give himself motivation to finish the project, etc).

        But yes... in the past, pretty much any outsourcing reason has been because it's cheaper. But now that it is getting more expensive, it will be funny to see if indeed you do get countries like India outsourcing work to Canada/US/UK...
        Signature
        Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145007].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jayuk76
          Having been around majority of IT Outsourcing projects for a number of years - it is now deemed in the West that you get what you pay for. Majority of work out of India is substandard.

          Yes you can get it CHEAP, with Plenty Cheapness, Much Quickness - but the bottom line is, is that to manage that project, to get the changes, to get it RIGHT costs you soo much more - both in tangible costs and intangible efforts.

          I wouldnt outsource to India - ever. Least not for another 5-10 years and by that time the living standard are going to be soo high there - that they will not be able to sustain themselves as the rich have got richer but the poor have got poorer in larger numbers.. India is a time bomb ticking away economically.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145026].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

          But yes... in the past, pretty much any outsourcing reason has been because it's cheaper. But now that it is getting more expensive, it will be funny to see if indeed you do get countries like India outsourcing work to Canada/US/UK...
          I'd be happy just to see the US outsourcing to the US ... lol.
          There are enough highly qualified people in our own country who desperately need the work.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145035].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I'd be happy just to see the US outsourcing to the US ... lol.
            There are enough highly qualified people in our own country who desperately need the work.


            I 100% agree with this.

            There is PLENTY of talent out there willing to work for fractions of their value (especially now) right here in the good ole' U.S. of A. and the work is generally about 5-10 times better than I've ever received from an off shore outsourcee.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146282].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          The sheer effrontery of people who want to get the most money than can for their services is sickening.

          How dare they?

          Who do they think they are?

          I can see why they upset you.
          They are free to charge whatever they wish, but they should also be aware that price was the only advantage that they had and if you take that out of the mix, you also take the work out of the mix. When the lowballing stops, the jobs will come back to the originating country.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145106].message }}
        • Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          The sheer effrontery of people who want to get the most money than can for their services is sickening.

          How dare they?

          Who do they think they are?

          I can see why they upset you.
          lol. No. There is a difference between getting as much money as you can for "good" quality work, and getting as much money as you can for doing absolutely nothing, and delaying projects as much as possible.

          I have no problem paying someone what they are worth/what they ask if they provide quality work delivered on time, I have issues with people who want (lots of) something for nothing, and then make excuses why it is not done.
          Signature
          Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145179].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author redrossero
          Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post


          Romania, China, some areas in the Phillipines, etc, etc have also been getting pricier. (Some people in China are *ridiculously* high, but it tends to be better quality). Romania is usually pretty good quality too.
          The cost of living in Romania is getting insane, so no wonder people charge more.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145820].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Vis
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Actually, the only reason US outsources to developing countries rather than hiring at home has been price. If prices are rising in India, they will go to the cheapest source. There are millions of highly qualified people in many countries including Philippines, US, Canada, UK, Russia, China, etc. and there's always going to be someone who does it cheaper.
        Interesting... I wonder how long it will take before we run out of cheap outsourcing? Probably soon within 5 - 10 years. The current number of countries is not that infinite.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146408].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by Vis View Post

          Interesting... I wonder how long it will take before we run out of cheap outsourcing? Probably soon within 5 - 10 years. The current number of countries is not that infinite.
          People will keep competing for prices. And you can't get a $1000 job done in India for $50, you never could. Maybe $300-$600 for a comparative level of quality, yes. And that price difference is due to Purchasing Power Parity theory scaling across markets. The cost of living in India, especially Urban India is not that low compared to most cities in US or UK. True it's no Manhattan kind of cost structure here, but then while you pay out $200K for a Ferrari, we have to shell out over $440K for the same one. You'd expect to pay anywhere between $500K to $1MM for a 3000 square feet single family home in New Delhi, and probably 50% more in Mumbai. It ain't cheap in here baby.

          Cheap outsourcing usually meant bad quality, and it will continue to mean so. or maybe if the quality isn't being compromised, time lines surely would be.

          -Lakshay
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146513].message }}
  • Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

    I've been noticing an interesting trend, and was wondering whether it was just me, or perhaps because of the huge source in 'outsourcing', that outsourcing overall has become more expensive than hiring in North America?

    For example, I know I can hire locally to find people to do quality work (whether it's programming, videos, graphic arts) for minimum ~$10/hour, but $20-$30/hour I would probably start get decent/quality work. (Of course, the higher you go, you tend to get better quality/what you pay for).

    But what I find amusing/almost a bit ridiculous, is that in what would be considered 'developing' countries, the wages being asked are MORE than US/Canada, and in fact usually ridiculously more. (For example, I had one web development project, that personally would have taken me 3-4 hours to do if I was really focused/intent on just getting it done, and if I recall correctly, for that particular project, received bids in excess of $2,000+)...

    Also, for example, I posted a video project (very simple project/straightforward, 10-1 minute videos, for someone who knows what they are doing, about 20-30 minutes, max 2 hours if they take their time).

    I am getting bids such as this:

    ~$200 - Egypt
    ~$400 - India

    Even some bids (for the work required/set of 10-1 minute videos) which are $50-$100, is more than it would cost to hire someone in the US/Canada.

    For article writing projects, lets say a batch of 10-500 word articles, I've received bids for $100+, for writers whose first language is obviously not english. (I.e., receiving something like: "Hi sirs, I likes very much doing this project, am skilled in writings such as this and have dones many such things. I know lots about Nuclear Fission, have 5 degrees in nuclear physicz and can rights technical articles no problems")

    Just wondering... is it just me? Or does it seem that this is where the industry is headed? (And... almost amusingly... 3-4 years from now... Will you start having companies/individuals from India outsourcing work to the US/Canada?)
    BELIEVE me I could not agree with you more... SOME of those "Dear Sirs I can rights technical articles...blah blah blah" have actually beat me out of some projects. Surprisingly I see both ends of the spectrum, the CHEAPLY priced ones and the clearly OVERPRICED ones. These people (no offense intended) ruin the market for those of us who can really WRITE and who are trying to make this a SERIOUS way of making a living.

    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    Three or four years from now, Americans may be sneaking into Mexico to get the good cotton picking jobs.
    LOL...

    Originally Posted by remotedb View Post

    What an out and out load of pure BS. Really this takes the cake. India is the preferred destination for IT outsourcing for one reason and one reason only, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality or skill. It is price period.

    I've been an IT professional for nearly 30 years and have managed offshore teams including Indian teams as well as domestic many many times. My experience has been 100% of the time that any work I've outsourced to offshore Indian teams was of inferior quality, I mean every single time without a single exception, ever. More than half the time, the work had to be scrapped and redone by domestic talent.

    Now it may be that my senior management people who forced me to use outsourced labor were so focused on price that any thought of actual competence was left out of the equation. Truth is, I've worked with a few remarkably skilled Indian developers here in the US, though as with domestic talent, they were the exception not the rule. But the point is that the reason we were outsourcing was price, not skill or quality.

    Nobody in their right mind outsources to India because they are looking for quality. It's always price.
    I AGREE... My husband is an Internet Marketer and has outsourced quite a few different IT projects to India and has had the same results, poor quality, delayed projects, and on occasions unfinished projects. He learned his lesson and now he prefers to invest a bit more of money and hire an American freelancer.

    Of course, I have to also add that it is also based on luck and chance. :rolleyes:Even an American can be irresponsible, but my husband takes his chance.
    Signature
    Content Article Writer
    Rich Content Articles
    SEO Article Writing
    Article Writer For Hire
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2144854].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by ContentArticleWriter View Post

      My husband is an Internet Marketer and has outsourced quite a few different IT projects to India...
      Most Indians I know won't count "Internet marketing" projects as I.T.
      at all. The term is reserved in India for programming tasks like
      credit card service back-end processing, banking services, CAD-CAM
      development, ecommerce platform development and similar projects
      which typically have costs that run into millions of dollars - and where
      the vast pool of skilled labor willing to work at (relatively) low cost
      gives India a serious cost advantage in managing and delivering these
      projects.

      It's the area where India has established a brand as "world's BEST" -
      and very few would argue or debate that today.

      Typically, these projects are handled by I.T. majors (billion dollar
      corporations) or medium level organizations that employ between
      50 and 500 technically skilled personnel.

      Your "Internet marketing" outsourcing is handled, usually, by outfits
      that are run from home, or by teams of fewer than 20 people, usually
      folks who are learning 'on the fly' and managed poorly, with very
      few systems in place.

      The 'efficiency' here comes from paying out rock-bottom wages, and
      not from streamlined processes. This distinction is important to
      understand, if you're looking for VALUE in your outsourcing, as
      against purely 'cheaper prices'.

      My 2 cents. And also why I posted on my blog about "Why I Won't Outsource"

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146343].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Wide
      Originally Posted by ContentArticleWriter View Post

      .... He learned his lesson and now he prefers to invest a bit more of money and hire an American freelancer.
      How does he know he actually get an US based developer? most times they just reply they are from US, later to find out they are not.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151370].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
    I have several ongoing contracts to write articles for a Bangalore company and one from Lahore. Whether that work is going back to the US who knows
    La dominatrix
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145031].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rammbhat
    Thats not entirely true. On an average Indians bid lower. Standard of living. Of course of lat e the standard of living bar in the west has gone down thanks to recession. Nothing to worry though. Americans picking cotton is still far off
    Signature
    Making a steady $500 per month now!
    Check out my site for Internet Marketing and technical tutorials
    www.rammbhat.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145211].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SarahMcHarry
    Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

    I've been noticing an interesting trend, and was wondering whether it was just me, or perhaps because of the huge source in 'outsourcing', that outsourcing overall has become more expensive than hiring in North America?
    I come from what sometimes seems like a third-world country (UK !) and I have found it difficult to buy good outsourced work from anywhere.

    If English is not the first language then there are always communication problems. Arguing about the terms and nuances of a specification with a programmer from Asia can be difficult if not impossible.

    Standards of literacy in English-speaking countries can be poor. Some of the stuff (articles, websites etc) that I've seen emanating from US, Canada, UK are pathetic and I would not pay good money for that garbage.

    My best outsourcer has been a UK ex-employee who wants part-time, extra income. She's not particularly cheap but she's reliable and I know I can trust her. That's worth it to me.

    The lesson is the old adage: if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

    Sarah
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145238].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AllAboutAction
      Originally Posted by SarahMcHarry View Post

      Standards of literacy in English-speaking countries can be poor. Some of the stuff (articles, websites etc) that I've seen emanating from US, Canada, UK are pathetic and I would not pay good money for that garbage.
      Not everyone in the US is a native English speaker -- only about 82% are, in fact.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146279].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by AllAboutAction View Post

        Not everyone in the US is a native English speaker -- only about 82% are, in fact.
        It is ACTUALLY probably closer to 60%, and may not even be THAT high!!!!! A claim of 82% doesn't even take into account the SPANISH!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148668].message }}
        • Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          It is ACTUALLY probably closer to 60%, and may not even be THAT high!!!!! A claim of 82% doesn't even take into account the SPANISH!
          I suppose not that it really matters According to the census.gov website, as of 2008, estimating (using english only as a first language 225,488,799), with a population of 307,006,500 as a basis, 73.4% speak English natively (more accurately, speak only english at home, which would indicate they are native speakers). If you take into account ALL english that is spoken (including 2nd/3rd languages, etc), then it is 280,564,877 people, which is roughly 91.4% that speak it at home


          Source:
          Code:
          http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-mt_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G2000_C16001&-format=&-CONTEXT=dt
          Signature
          Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148684].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

            I suppose not that it really matters According to the census.gov website, as of 2008, estimating (using english only as a first language 225,488,799), with a population of 307,006,500 as a basis, 73.4% speak English natively (more accurately, speak only english at home, which would indicate they are native speakers). If you take into account ALL english that is spoken (including 2nd/3rd languages, etc), then it is 280,564,877 people, which is roughly 91.4% that speak it at home


            Source:
            Code:
            http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-mt_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G2000_C16001&-format=&-CONTEXT=dt
            Well, you said NATIVE english speaker, and claiming to speak only english at home, or even actually meaning it doesn't necessarily mean native english speaker. But HEY, it is the census. why would you even trust it? I don't think I have EVER been asked ANYTHING by the census prior to this time, andd this time it was handled POORLY! Do you realize they asked me at TWO locations in TWO states, and one was a HOTEL! YEAH RIGHT, I LIVE AT A HOTEL(SARC). OK, technically ***I*** might, but maybe not TOMORROW! I didn't 5 years ago! And MOST may be there for only a day or two!

            So I certainly CAN'T trust the census!

            BTW... Taking just THREE rows of cubes here, and native languages...

            FIRST row 3 ENGLISH, 4 INDIAN(various indian languages)
            SECOND row 3 ENGLISH, 4 INDIAN, 1 russian, 1 chinese.]
            THIRD row 3 ENGLISH 4 INDIAN

            39% english
            5% russian
            57% indian
            5% chinese

            LAST meeting I was in here....
            2 Russian 7%
            5 english 17%
            1 chinese 3%
            21 indian 72%

            CRAZY, huh!?!?!?


            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148731].message }}
            • Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Well, you said NATIVE english speaker, and claiming to speak only english at home, or even actually meaning it doesn't necessarily mean native english speaker. But HEY, it is the census. why would you even trust it? I don't think I have EVER been asked ANYTHING by the census prior to this time, andd this time it was handled POORLY! Do you realize they asked me at TWO locations in TWO states, and one was a HOTEL! YEAH RIGHT, I LIVE AT A HOTEL(SARC). OK, technically ***I*** might, but maybe not TOMORROW! I didn't 5 years ago! And MOST may be there for only a day or two!

              So I certainly CAN'T trust the census!

              Steve
              Nice... So I guess what you are saying, is quite possibly the population of the US is really only 150 million, because chances are as the census was being taken 50% of people were on vacation, so they were asked twice? Anyways, yes, the census is just a statistic, and I think even on their site they said it 'may' be accurate/inaccurate up to 7%. (So it could be 73-7%=64%, or 73+7% = 80%! )
              Signature
              Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148770].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mohit Anand
    Outsourcing the copy-write job to Asian countries is inviting trouble. You can't blame them as English is not their first language. However, I read somewhere that over 30 % of employees working for Microsoft are people of Indian origin. They must have some talent to show that number.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145449].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by trafficwiz View Post

      Outsourcing the copy-write job to Asian countries is inviting trouble. You can't blame them as English is not their first language. However, I read somewhere that over 30 % of employees working for Microsoft are people of Indian origin. They must have some talent to show that number.
      And so does the other 70% of Microsoft employees
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145782].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayPeete
    Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

    For article writing projects, lets say a batch of 10-500 word articles, I've received bids for $100+, for writers whose first language is obviously not english. (I.e., receiving something like: "Hi sirs, I likes very much doing this project, am skilled in writings such as this and have dones many such things. I know lots about Nuclear Fission, have 5 degrees in nuclear physicz and can rights technical articles no problems")

    Just wondering... is it just me? Or does it seem that this is where the industry is headed? (And... almost amusingly... 3-4 years from now... Will you start having companies/individuals from India outsourcing work to the US/Canada?)
    When I first began reading this thread I thought you were crazy but you made a believer out of me by the end...
    Signature
    What Misunderstood Traffic Source SUCKS In
    3 Million Visitors Daily and Spits Out
    $560.81 Per Day In Commissions?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145647].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MaryT
    there are different quality level, one will create a video for 50 to 100$ and another will create one for 500 to 2,000$.

    all came on their background and their understanding of the market

    if the demand of these services is high, raising the prices is a common business practice
    Signature

    ..--> White Death : the Sniper Who Killed 705..in 100 Days. Will you be the next!..coming soon..
    ...
    ..-->*FREE WSO*<-- Beat Super Affiliates at their own game..Shocking! Sniper Affiliate Tools.[*FREE WSO*]

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    Funny, but I started getting Indian clients about a year or so ago. So I am an outsource for some (serious) Indian companies.

    I've met some people with great skills all over the world, but with the language and cultural differences (and prices being more and more competetive - e.g. expensive) it's not worth it.

    I've been working with a talented software developer in Viet Nam. But, I had to teach him how to set up a WP and use it. Of course software developers, designers, and coders are completely different worlds.

    The world - it is a changing. (that's a song - right?)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2145867].message }}
    • Originally Posted by jficarro View Post

      Funny, but I started getting Indian clients about a year or so ago. So I am an outsource for some (serious) Indian companies.

      I've met some people with great skills all over the world, but with the language and cultural differences (and prices being more and more competetive - e.g. expensive) it's not worth it.

      I've been working with a talented software developer in Viet Nam. But, I had to teach him how to set up a WP and use it. Of course software developers, designers, and coders are completely different worlds.

      The world - it is a changing. (that's a song - right?)
      Haha... now that is cool/interesting... What kinds of projects do you do for the Indian companies?
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146197].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jficarro
        Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

        Haha... now that is cool/interesting... What kinds of projects do you do for the Indian companies?
        Laugh it up. hahah. one was an ecommerce site and one was a membership site with a script to manage the users.

        But, the pay (my fees) were comperable to US & UK markets. So, everything was good. I personally think they made a good choice
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147806].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

    I've been noticing an interesting trend, and was wondering whether it was just me, or perhaps because of the huge source in 'outsourcing', that outsourcing overall has become more expensive than hiring in North America?

    For example, I know I can hire locally to find people to do quality work (whether it's programming, videos, graphic arts) for minimum ~$10/hour, but $20-$30/hour I would probably start get decent/quality work. (Of course, the higher you go, you tend to get better quality/what you pay for).

    But what I find amusing/almost a bit ridiculous, is that in what would be considered 'developing' countries, the wages being asked are MORE than US/Canada, and in fact usually ridiculously more. (For example, I had one web development project, that personally would have taken me 3-4 hours to do if I was really focused/intent on just getting it done, and if I recall correctly, for that particular project, received bids in excess of $2,000+)...

    Also, for example, I posted a video project (very simple project/straightforward, 10-1 minute videos, for someone who knows what they are doing, about 20-30 minutes, max 2 hours if they take their time).

    I am getting bids such as this:

    ~$200 - Egypt
    ~$400 - India

    Even some bids (for the work required/set of 10-1 minute videos) which are $50-$100, is more than it would cost to hire someone in the US/Canada.

    For article writing projects, lets say a batch of 10-500 word articles, I've received bids for $100+, for writers whose first language is obviously not english. (I.e., receiving something like: "Hi sirs, I likes very much doing this project, am skilled in writings such as this and have dones many such things. I know lots about Nuclear Fission, have 5 degrees in nuclear physicz and can rights technical articles no problems")

    Just wondering... is it just me? Or does it seem that this is where the industry is headed? (And... almost amusingly... 3-4 years from now... Will you start having companies/individuals from India outsourcing work to the US/Canada?)


    Are you actually expecting quality work for those 10 1-minute videos? Your expectations on 20-30 minutes to accomplish that task are SEVERELY unrealistic, unless you're just looking for someone to stand in front of a camera and BS for a minute with no graphically pleasing qualities or research/planning/scripting....


    I just did a set of 20 Q&A videos that all averaged ~1-3 min in length and were nothing more than powerpoint slides and it took me a solid 7 hours from start to completion.

    PowerPoint creation
    Screen recording (and I didn't even script the answers)
    Editing
    Finalizing
    Compressing (compression alone on a single 3 min HD video, on my quad-core computer, is a solid 20 minutes).


    And I'm good (and fast) with video stuff.




    So, to reevaluate your estimates..... $200-$400 is about par for the course for overseas workers and $50-$100 is laughable.

    And my guess is that if you're outsourcing your videos to someone that is willing to take $50-$100 they're going to come back COMPLETE trash.


    This is just my opinion of course.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146270].message }}
    • Please give me credit for knowing what I want and how long something should take.

      I know exactly how long the 10-1 minute videos should take, as they were simply Camstastia recordings, of which they would either read from a script or improvise. Simply record once, edit out any 'ums, ahhs', and then upload the video which would take 5-10 minutes for a slow worker.

      And that is what I was receiving bids of $200-$400 for. Something a highschool student could do in 1-2 hours here. No special technical expertise required. No fancy special effects, green screening, sound effects, etc, etc. Just a camstasia recording (which I explictly stated). That is what I was receiving those bids for.

      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      Are you actually expecting quality work for those 10 1-minute videos? Your expectations on 20-30 minutes to accomplish that task are SEVERELY unrealistic, unless you're just looking for someone to stand in front of a camera and BS for a minute with no graphically pleasing qualities or research/planning/scripting....


      I just did a set of 20 Q&A videos that all averaged ~1-3 min in length and were nothing more than powerpoint slides and it took me a solid 7 hours from start to completion.

      PowerPoint creation
      Screen recording (and I didn't even script the answers)
      Editing
      Finalizing
      Compressing (compression alone on a single 3 min HD video, on my quad-core computer, is a solid 20 minutes).


      And I'm good (and fast) with video stuff.




      So, to reevaluate your estimates..... $200-$400 is about par for the course for overseas workers and $50-$100 is laughable.

      And my guess is that if you're outsourcing your videos to someone that is willing to take $50-$100 they're going to come back COMPLETE trash.


      This is just my opinion of course.
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146377].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

        Please give me credit for knowing what I want and how long something should take.

        I know exactly how long the 10-1 minute videos should take, as they were simply Camstastia recordings, of which they would either read from a script or improvise. Simply record once, edit out any 'ums, ahhs', and then upload the video which would take 5-10 minutes for a slow worker.

        And that is what I was receiving bids of $200-$400 for. Something a highschool student could do in 1-2 hours here. No special technical expertise required. No fancy special effects, green screening, sound effects, etc, etc. Just a camstasia recording (which I explictly stated). That is what I was receiving those bids for.
        Know what? I actually tend to agree. Sometimes it baffles my mind to see such quotes. I think the truth of the matter is that many companies around here that take up these projects are just untrained at anything. They try to get whatever projects they can, and then get them done somehow.

        Here's a tip for you: Look at the last few projects a company has quoted for/accepted. If they are in a host of varied services, the company is probably specialized at nothing at all. Stay away from such companies.

        There are quite a few gems in the rough though.

        -Lakshay
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146494].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      Are you actually expecting quality work for those 10 1-minute videos? Your expectations on 20-30 minutes to accomplish that task are SEVERELY unrealistic, unless you're just looking for someone to stand in front of a camera and BS for a minute with no graphically pleasing qualities or research/planning/scripting....


      I just did a set of 20 Q&A videos that all averaged ~1-3 min in length and were nothing more than powerpoint slides and it took me a solid 7 hours from start to completion.

      PowerPoint creation
      Screen recording (and I didn't even script the answers)
      Editing
      Finalizing
      Compressing (compression alone on a single 3 min HD video, on my quad-core computer, is a solid 20 minutes).


      And I'm good (and fast) with video stuff.




      So, to reevaluate your estimates..... $200-$400 is about par for the course for overseas workers and $50-$100 is laughable.

      And my guess is that if you're outsourcing your videos to someone that is willing to take $50-$100 they're going to come back COMPLETE trash.


      This is just my opinion of course.
      Well, to be honest, I wouldn't say you are that much more faster than the average at all then.

      Because in my experience, creating 10-2 minute videos is more like a job for 3-4 hours. Of course OP's saying 20-30 minutes, so that would mean they are probably providing most of the content and know what they want in the formatting and all someone had to do was to put it all together.

      Rendering is of course another dragon, but I don't think I've ever rendered an HD video for a Powerpoint presentation. It does take time, I agree, but not that much. I don't know for sure since I do not do it myself.

      For me, time estimates are different: I recently did a 7 hour video product, took me almost 20 hours to do it from beginning all the way to the end. I didn't render the videos of course, someone else did. But I paid them a VERY small amount of money. And they were happy about it.

      -Lakshay

      P.S. My experience with outsourcing in India has not been good. I have my own team now, and they are very good, but back when I didn't have a team, I'd rarely be satisfied with the kind of work Indian companies would do.

      That is not to say that US/UK companies were all good. But at least some of them got the job done.

      P.P.S. Very true: Choose any two
      1. Fast
      2. Quality
      3. Cheap
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146478].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Well, to be honest, I wouldn't say you are that much more faster than the average at all then.

        Because in my experience, creating 10-2 minute videos is more like a job for 3-4 hours. Of course OP's saying 20-30 minutes, so that would mean they are probably providing most of the content and know what they want in the formatting and all someone had to do was to put it all together.

        Rendering is of course another dragon, but I don't think I've ever rendered an HD video for a Powerpoint presentation. It does take time, I agree, but not that much. I don't know for sure since I do not do it myself.

        For me, time estimates are different: I recently did a 7 hour video product, took me almost 20 hours to do it from beginning all the way to the end. I didn't render the videos of course, someone else did. But I paid them a VERY small amount of money. And they were happy about it.

        -Lakshay

        P.S. My experience with outsourcing in India has not been good. I have my own team now, and they are very good, but back when I didn't have a team, I'd rarely be satisfied with the kind of work Indian companies would do.

        That is not to say that US/UK companies were all good. But at least some of them got the job done.

        P.P.S. Very true: Choose any two
        1. Fast
        2. Quality
        3. Cheap
        I suppose it depends on the quality of the videos. i.e. Someone walking through a website with no objective other than to click through a couple screens and talk will get done a whole lot quicker than someone that does a content project with even a little production value and polishing it for consumption.

        In my case:

        10 videos at 15 minutes average (underestimated) each to render is 2.5 hours alone....

        Power point generation 3 minutes per video (if you're really fast and already have a mapped out plan)... another 30 minutes already

        We just hit 3 hours.

        Any kind of editing for "um" and "uh" = another 30 minutes at least and more likely about an hour.

        Any other branding type editing = 30 minutes more total

        There's your 4 hour mark...

        This doesn't take into account the creative process, idea generation for the video subjects, scripting (if applicable), branding creation (entry screens, exit splashes) etc.

        On top of this, if you're outsourcing to someone that ISN'T familiar with your industry or niche, you're not taking into account the time it takes to for the person to develop an understanding of the message they're trying to convey so they don't just sound like a robot.


        And all of this is assuming that the outsource worker makes zero mistakes (hahaha) and has zero re-shoots, zero equipment malfunctions, zero errors... AND work at 100% effectiveness the entire time taking zero breaks between videos.


        7 Hours isn't unreasonable by any means for what I did. In fact, it's quite fast for the quality level of the videos that I produced.


        So sure, if you want to do all the leg work, develop the script and ideas, and plan the entire thing out, and just have some drone talk into a mic and click a few buttons, I could see 3-4 hours for raw video back to you.

        But let's call a spade a spade and account for YOUR time in the project as well. Your project rate quickly becomes $200-$400 PLUS the hourly rate that it cost you in your time to plan all of it out.


        And that is most certainly not a product anywhere near as polished as someone with an expertise in video production would create.

        I suppose it boils down to your expectations of the products that you're trying to release.

        /rant


        Also, I 100% agree on your PPS statement (in fact, I'm pretty sure you could find a post from me somewhere that says exactly that, haha).
        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2021666



        And that was exactly the point I was trying to make to the OP.

        If he wants QUALITY videos, QUICKLY, then he should realize that the price will reflect that... and $200-$400 is not unreasonable by any means.

        If he wants QUICK videos CHEAP, then the quality will suffer, often times severely. Unfortunately, this is the route that most people choose, and most outsource workers provide.

        And if he wants Quality videos for cheap.... well, he better plan on waiting...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146615].message }}
        • Actually, as I previously stated, I know exactly how long this work should take. I can do it myself, and have done this kind of thing myself. If for the particular work someone takes longer than 5-10 minutes for a 1 minute screen recording with basic edits & uploads, it either means they are incompetent, lazy, or just simply taking too many 'lunch' breaks in between videos.

          Sometimes for tasks as this, I look for it to be outsourced, not because it is hard, but because there are only so many hours in the day, and I need to focus on the more important tasks.

          Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

          I suppose it depends on the quality of the videos. i.e. Someone walking through a website with no objective other than to click through a couple screens and talk will get done a whole lot quicker than someone that does a content project with even a little production value and polishing it for consumption.

          In my case:

          10 videos at 15 minutes average (underestimated) each to render is 2.5 hours alone....

          Power point generation 3 minutes per video (if you're really fast and already have a mapped out plan)... another 30 minutes already

          We just hit 3 hours.

          Any kind of editing for "um" and "uh" = another 30 minutes at least and more likely about an hour.

          Any other branding type editing = 30 minutes more total

          There's your 4 hour mark...

          This doesn't take into account the creative process, idea generation for the video subjects, scripting (if applicable), branding creation (entry screens, exit splashes) etc.

          On top of this, if you're outsourcing to someone that ISN'T familiar with your industry or niche, you're not taking into account the time it takes to for the person to develop an understanding of the message they're trying to convey so they don't just sound like a robot.


          And all of this is assuming that the outsource worker makes zero mistakes (hahaha) and has zero re-shoots, zero equipment malfunctions, zero errors... AND work at 100% effectiveness the entire time taking zero breaks between videos.


          7 Hours isn't unreasonable by any means for what I did. In fact, it's quite fast for the quality level of the videos that I produced.


          So sure, if you want to do all the leg work, develop the script and ideas, and plan the entire thing out, and just have some drone talk into a mic and click a few buttons, I could see 3-4 hours for raw video back to you.

          But let's call a spade a spade and account for YOUR time in the project as well. Your project rate quickly becomes $200-$400 PLUS the hourly rate that it cost you in your time to plan all of it out.


          And that is most certainly not a product anywhere near as polished as someone with an expertise in video production would create.

          I suppose it boils down to your expectations of the products that you're trying to release.

          /rant


          Also, I 100% agree on your PPS statement (in fact, I'm pretty sure you could find a post from me somewhere that says exactly that, haha).
          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2021666



          And that was exactly the point I was trying to make to the OP.

          If he wants QUALITY videos, QUICKLY, then he should realize that the price will reflect that... and $200-$400 is not unreasonable by any means.

          If he wants QUICK videos CHEAP, then the quality will suffer, often times severely. Unfortunately, this is the route that most people choose, and most outsource workers provide.

          And if he wants Quality videos for cheap.... well, he better plan on waiting...
          Signature
          Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147905].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    I've been outsourcing to the United States for YEARS! :lol:

    All success
    Dr.Mani

    P.S. - A thought about why you may be getting higher quotes.
    People you're outsourcing too are becoming more aware of
    how VALUABLE their work is TO those hiring it out... probably
    because of discussions on many forums about it!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146318].message }}
    • I believe you are correct.

      The other thing though is -- some companies do actually pay out big bucks, and it is kind of like winning the lottery. (I.e., some outsourcers will simply bid $2,000+ for 100 projects, and lo & behold, one company actually accepts, not really aware of what the market would bare, or what the correct pricing would be).

      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      I've been outsourcing to the United States for YEARS! :lol:

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      P.S. - A thought about why you may be getting higher quotes.
      People you're outsourcing too are becoming more aware of
      how VALUABLE their work is TO those hiring it out... probably
      because of discussions on many forums about it!
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146382].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AllAboutAction
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      P.S. - A thought about why you may be getting higher quotes.
      People you're outsourcing too are becoming more aware of
      how VALUABLE their work is TO those hiring it out... probably
      because of discussions on many forums about it!
      Or to take it one step further, maybe those providing quotes are planning to outsource the work themselves? "Outsource Arbitrage" anyone?
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146834].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Votoshka
        The biggest challenge in being a freelancer, I find, is not competing with Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos etc. who bid cheaply, it's competing with people from the US, UK, Australia etc. who bid cheaply. I have seen apparently well qualified Americans bid $1 for 500 words

        Now, that is NOT to say that I think Indians aren't capable of doing a great job. I know there are some Indians who can write terrific English, but they also charge a reasonable amount for it too

        I was also reading recently that Mumbai is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in (about #10 from memory). Nowhere in Australia even comes close to that

        What I DO know is that it seems to be harder and harder to get a reasonable writing gig than it was when I started four years ago. The first few jobs I got I was paid $10 for 500 words writing basic SEO articles. I got that with absolutely no freelance experience, just an article I whipped up for a sample. Now, it seems everyone wants to pay less for the same quality and quantity of work and unfortunately I blame freelancers not from India, but freelancers from native English speaking countries who put in such low bids.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147334].message }}
        • Yes, sometimes (especially in the case of writing) -- it is simply because a highschool student (or younger) thinks it is "really cool" the concept of being paid online, and doesn't really have any concept of the value of a dollar. They don't necessarily write poorly, but at least the sentences they compose are in most cases gramatically correct.

          Originally Posted by Votoshka View Post

          The biggest challenge in being a freelancer, I find, is not competing with Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos etc. who bid cheaply, it's competing with people from the US, UK, Australia etc. who bid cheaply. I have seen apparently well qualified Americans bid $1 for 500 words

          Now, that is NOT to say that I think Indians aren't capable of doing a great job. I know there are some Indians who can write terrific English, but they also charge a reasonable amount for it too

          I was also reading recently that Mumbai is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in (about #10 from memory). Nowhere in Australia even comes close to that

          What I DO know is that it seems to be harder and harder to get a reasonable writing gig than it was when I started four years ago. The first few jobs I got I was paid $10 for 500 words writing basic SEO articles. I got that with absolutely no freelance experience, just an article I whipped up for a sample. Now, it seems everyone wants to pay less for the same quality and quantity of work and unfortunately I blame freelancers not from India, but freelancers from native English speaking countries who put in such low bids.
          Signature
          Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147924].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

            Also, for example, I posted a video project (very simple project/straightforward, 10-1 minute videos, for someone who knows what they are doing, about 20-30 minutes, max 2 hours if they take their time).
            Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

            Actually, as I previously stated, I know exactly how long this work should take. I can do it myself, and have done this kind of thing myself. If for the particular work someone takes longer than 5-10 minutes for a 1 minute screen recording with basic edits & uploads, it either means they are incompetent, lazy, or just simply taking too many 'lunch' breaks in between videos.
            So you've gone from expecting someone to make videos in roughly twice the time it takes to watch them, to calling them incompetent or lazy for not meeting your expectations regarding them being unnaturally efficient.

            Normally these types of posts are laughable at best, but in the case of this thread there is the possibility that new folks just getting into video will read these statements and assume they should expect the same results.

            There is a danger in that.

            What you are stating are opinions about how you would like the video proccess to work for you, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

            However, the full scope of video work can and many times does include creative work on the part of the person doing the video work. To expect that all videos can just be put together in real time where the length of the video is equivelent to the playing time of the video plus a little extra time for 'lunch' breaks, is absurd unless you simply do not care about the quality of the video you want produced.

            While it is true that a simple screen shot of an image or text is not rocket science, it does no good to discount all the additional aspects associated with doing video work for a client to the point where no time is involved, and no worth is associated with the effort.

            You will have to forgive my bluntness here, but your attitude screams of entitlement mentalitity of the first order.

            ~Bill
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148079].message }}
            • Hi Bill,

              Thanks for your response. Actually, every case is different, and there is no entitlement mentality. Otherwise, it would be like if you were to go to McDonald's and they decided to charge you $500 US, for a big mac, just "because". Or charging $500 for a big mac, because it is a 'new' worker as opposed to an experienced worker.

              I did provide clear instructions, from exactly what software to use, to what kind of scripting, etc. I do agree, however, that if someone were simply to make a post saying "make me 10 videos", that is entirely differently from a specific process. (I.e., saying make me a big mac for someone who has no clue what a bun is, to saying step 1. get the bun from the bridge, step 2. do this, etc, etc)

              Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

              So you've gone from expecting someone to make videos in roughly twice the time it takes to watch them, to calling them incompetent or lazy for not meeting your expectations regarding them being unnaturally efficient.

              Normally these types of posts are laughable at best, but in the case of this thread there is the possibility that new folks just getting into video will read these statements and assume they should expect the same results.

              There is a danger in that.

              What you are stating are opinions about how you would like the video proccess to work for you, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

              However, the full scope of video work can and many times does include creative work on the part of the person doing the video work. To expect that all videos can just be put together in real time where the length of the video is equivelent to the playing time of the video plus a little extra time for 'lunch' breaks, is absurd unless you simply do not care about the quality of the video you want produced.

              While it is true that a simple screen shot of an image or text is not rocket science, it does no good to discount all the additional aspects associated with doing video work for a client to the point where no time is involved, and no worth is associated with the effort.

              You will have to forgive my bluntness here, but your attitude screams of entitlement mentalitity of the first order.

              ~Bill
              Signature
              Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148217].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JacksonPollock
    A lot of my friends ask me to review scripts they had made and I've never been satisfied when I see the outsourced code.

    Whoever above said that companies will bid on virtually any job and then find a way to complete it seems to be right in my experience.

    Most of the code quality just isn't up to snuff, especially when it comes to security.

    OP -- You can pay me $50-$100 all day to do 20 or 30 minutes of work for you. Stop going to the outsources, just PM me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146536].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by JacksonPollock View Post

      A lot of my friends ask me to review scripts they had made and I've never been satisfied when I see the outsourced code.

      Whoever above said that companies will bid on virtually any job and then find a way to complete it seems to be right in my experience.

      Most of the code quality just isn't up to snuff, especially when it comes to security.

      OP -- You can pay me $50-$100 all day to do 20 or 30 minutes of work for you. Stop going to the outsources, just PM me.
      I was actually talking about code related stuff, yes.

      LOL@ Comment for OP!

      -Lakshay
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146541].message }}
    • Originally Posted by JacksonPollock View Post

      A lot of my friends ask me to review scripts they had made and I've never been satisfied when I see the outsourced code.

      Whoever above said that companies will bid on virtually any job and then find a way to complete it seems to be right in my experience.

      Most of the code quality just isn't up to snuff, especially when it comes to security.

      OP -- You can pay me $50-$100 all day to do 20 or 30 minutes of work for you. Stop going to the outsources, just PM me.
      Haha... yes, interesting point...

      I have seen code the 'equivalent' of this (not necessarily just India, but some outsourced areas)...

      Lets say you should have ('optimized'):

      Code:
      for count = 1 to 10
        print "Hello! - " & count
      next count
      The 'equivalent' outsourced code sometimes looks like this:
      Code:
      count = 0
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      count = count + 1
      print "Hello!"
      print "-"
      print count
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147887].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    With any luck, YES! - and UK too!

    God, what a sad situation. We outsource to them, who in turn begin outsourcing to us our own damn work. And we just keep outsourcing until there's no money OR dignity left. Now that might get confusing.
    Signature
    >> Seasoned Web Developer (CSS, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby) <<
    Available for Fixed Fee Projects and Hourly ($40/hr)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146549].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by Damien Roche View Post

      With any luck, YES! - and UK too!

      God, what a sad situation. We outsource to them, who in turn begin outsourcing to us our own damn work. And we just keep outsourcing until there's no money OR dignity left. Now that might get confusing.
      I just don't understand why some people have this community division mindset. I think it would be wise if you'd start thinking of all humans as equals.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146589].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        I just don't understand why some people have this community division mindset. I think it would be wise if you'd start thinking of all humans as equals.
        For goodness sake, loosen your nicker elastic!

        You're reading too deep into a person I am not based on a single post I made.

        I think it would be wise you stop assuming so much.
        Signature
        >> Seasoned Web Developer (CSS, JavaScript, PHP, Ruby) <<
        Available for Fixed Fee Projects and Hourly ($40/hr)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146618].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lacraiger
    things will get better soon. hopefully... we Americans are spoiled though and refuse to work "dead end" jobs. thats why garbage collectors and nurses get paid at a premium because people are too lazy to do that type of work.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146567].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author FredJones
    Being an Indian let me try to capture the "India" part of it.

    Most unfortunately, you have hit the sour spot of India. 1.2 billion people, and 1% with the right talent, makes is 12 million, which is sizable enough to create an impact in the whole world. And that is what India has been doing and producing some of the world class stuff that it does today.

    Among the remaining 99%, my sense tells that anywhere around 70-80% of the people's skills are unusable. They are simply below par in terms of quality.

    The remaining 19-29% range from trying to improve through thinking that they are on the verge of belonging to the elite class till believing they are in the elite class (elite class of knowledge and skills) while they are not. And this is the real class of people that at least I seem to have to deal most of the time in India. The English sentence you have exemplified comes from this class of a person, in my best guess.

    Result? A nonsense economy that is mostly rooted into unclear and smelly corners (hope that will get cleared up in the next 10-20-30 years). For example, prices of any decent prroperty in New Delhi are at the same range as that in many bigger cities of the USA. You get decent 1000 square feet apartment in New York for 700,00 USD is my understanding, and the same in the good areas of New Delhi would not be less than 500,000 USD. And this is more than more USA cities. And little lesser but similar prices apply in other bigger cities of India too which ought to be compared with smaller cities in the USA.

    India, in terms of cost when it comes to the core 1% population (they would gun for the better places to live in, I suspect), is not far behind from many other countries. And that has now started to reflect in the economy.

    Name a country that sees a consistent 10-20% inflation every year, apart form India, and is large enough? Don't know whether any other such country exists.

    The days are not far off when India will be more expensive (at least at some corners) compared to many countries such as USA and Canada, if it keeps becoming expensive at this rate every day.


    Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

    I've been noticing an interesting trend, and was wondering whether it was just me, or perhaps because of the huge source in 'outsourcing', that outsourcing overall has become more expensive than hiring in North America?

    For example, I know I can hire locally to find people to do quality work (whether it's programming, videos, graphic arts) for minimum ~$10/hour, but $20-$30/hour I would probably start get decent/quality work. (Of course, the higher you go, you tend to get better quality/what you pay for).

    But what I find amusing/almost a bit ridiculous, is that in what would be considered 'developing' countries, the wages being asked are MORE than US/Canada, and in fact usually ridiculously more. (For example, I had one web development project, that personally would have taken me 3-4 hours to do if I was really focused/intent on just getting it done, and if I recall correctly, for that particular project, received bids in excess of $2,000+)...

    Also, for example, I posted a video project (very simple project/straightforward, 10-1 minute videos, for someone who knows what they are doing, about 20-30 minutes, max 2 hours if they take their time).

    I am getting bids such as this:

    ~$200 - Egypt
    ~$400 - India

    Even some bids (for the work required/set of 10-1 minute videos) which are $50-$100, is more than it would cost to hire someone in the US/Canada.

    For article writing projects, lets say a batch of 10-500 word articles, I've received bids for $100+, for writers whose first language is obviously not english. (I.e., receiving something like: "Hi sirs, I likes very much doing this project, am skilled in writings such as this and have dones many such things. I know lots about Nuclear Fission, have 5 degrees in nuclear physicz and can rights technical articles no problems")

    Just wondering... is it just me? Or does it seem that this is where the industry is headed? (And... almost amusingly... 3-4 years from now... Will you start having companies/individuals from India outsourcing work to the US/Canada?)
    Signature

    $1 gold: WSO That Instantly Transforms You Into A Content Production Engine

    $2.95 GoDaddy .com domains today: Click here.
    I am offering a free website - get it now (and they offer you a free domain with this).
    Find high-commission easy Amazon niches within 5 seconds here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2146642].message }}
    • Good points. Yes, I know some very intelligent people from India who work very hard, have gone to the best universities, and have a very good work ethic. And you are probably right about the 1%. There actually are some pretty good technical universities in India, and there have been a number of partnerships with US corporations which have helped make them good.

      And yes -- then you do have the others that here about the magic of 'outsourcing' online, apply to 100 jobs, and hope they get something, and then maybe finish the project.

      For the people that produce quality work, those I like.

      Originally Posted by FredJones View Post

      Being an Indian let me try to capture the "India" part of it.

      Most unfortunately, you have hit the sour spot of India. 1.2 billion people, and 1% with the right talent, makes is 12 million, which is sizable enough to create an impact in the whole world. And that is what India has been doing and producing some of the world class stuff that it does today.

      Among the remaining 99%, my sense tells that anywhere around 70-80% of the people's skills are unusable. They are simply below par in terms of quality.

      The remaining 19-29% range from trying to improve through thinking that they are on the verge of belonging to the elite class till believing they are in the elite class (elite class of knowledge and skills) while they are not. And this is the real class of people that at least I seem to have to deal most of the time in India. The English sentence you have exemplified comes from this class of a person, in my best guess.

      Result? A nonsense economy that is mostly rooted into unclear and smelly corners (hope that will get cleared up in the next 10-20-30 years). For example, prices of any decent prroperty in New Delhi are at the same range as that in many bigger cities of the USA. You get decent 1000 square feet apartment in New York for 700,00 USD is my understanding, and the same in the good areas of New Delhi would not be less than 500,000 USD. And this is more than more USA cities. And little lesser but similar prices apply in other bigger cities of India too which ought to be compared with smaller cities in the USA.

      India, in terms of cost when it comes to the core 1% population (they would gun for the better places to live in, I suspect), is not far behind from many other countries. And that has now started to reflect in the economy.

      Name a country that sees a consistent 10-20% inflation every year, apart form India, and is large enough? Don't know whether any other such country exists.

      The days are not far off when India will be more expensive (at least at some corners) compared to many countries such as USA and Canada, if it keeps becoming expensive at this rate every day.
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147916].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Guni
    Looking for some good Indian workers. Let me know, I can assure you of the quality you will get. because I don't agree that Indians are bad. That's true there are always good and bad workers, but I can guarantee you some really good one. Always remember if you are going to throw peanuts then ofcourse you will be getting monkeys.

    Thanks
    Guni
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147580].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
      Originally Posted by Guni View Post

      Looking for some good Indian workers. Let me know, I can assure you of the quality you will get. because I don't agree that Indians are bad. That's true there are always good and bad workers, but I can guarantee you some really good one. Always remember if you are going to throw peanuts then ofcourse you will be getting monkeys.

      Thanks
      Guni
      I Would be interested in hearing about your resources. I am currently researching outsourcing as an option.

      I don't have enough posts to pm you so please pm me.

      Thanks.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151086].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kiopa
    Banned
    I like to think us guys at the forefront of the online industry like this, are a good indication of where globalization is taking us. I think we see it before most.

    Expect the trend to continue, until we end up with a more balanced world.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147590].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    I've never outsourced anything but design to Indians, which for a Photoshop illeterate they seem to do a good job.

    If I buy articles then I get them written by an American or Brit.

    The fact is that I've found most Indians to promise the world upfront, but then once some money is in their account, it takes ages.

    As an example, I hired someone to make an OSCommerce webshop. Their inital mockup (a modified template) looked great. Then when they installed the shop, they didn't care to test it, which meant it hasn't worked for a month. Now they promise to get it done in two days, we'll see.

    I think the motivation to do hit and run is bigger in countries that are comparatively cheaper. India does not compete on reputation and branding and they know it.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2147862].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mohit Anand
    I feel sometimes that if there is a deal in between the Indian and American governments.

    Business can be done in two ways: Either you sell products or services.

    India allows the US to sell its products in the Indian market which has raised the competition for Indian companies quite dramatically in the last 20-25 years. Some reputed Indian companies either closed or were acquired by the American giants. Almost half of one whole working generation of India eventually lost in the wilderness during the transition.

    America has encouraged the services from India. This has badly hurt the companies/people who earn their bread and butter by offering services in the US. Either they have lost jobs, or forced to reduce their price-tag.

    Again, I feel that this is pure business sort of agreement in between the two countries which has reached micro levels thanks to the Internet. You win some, you lose some. However, nothing is permanent.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148072].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    InternetSuccess001,

    MY INDUSTRY, unfortunately, is being HEAVILY outsourced, ESPECIALLY to INDIA! On my last contract, almost everyone in my building was INDIAN! I'm not, the head manager and the sponsor were ALSO Americans, as I am.

    At one point, the manager told us that they were going to start hiring from ROMANIA! WHY? Because of COST!

    The Indian phenomenon is NORMAL! They WERE rural, poor, uneducated, etc.... Well, they got good schools, from FOREIGN funding, INCLUDING the US, and FOREIGN countries started OUTSOURCING. THAT got ridiculous, so they lied, and got special visas. So the outsourced people could LIVE in the foreign countries. They made over TEN TIMES what an educated person in india would make, and sent a lot of the money back to india. The price of everything went up.

    One coworker, an INDIAN, told me of how his place SKYROCKETED in value. MAN, it sounded like the last 60 years of the R/E boom in Los Angeles County compressed into just a few years.

    So YEAH, it is understandable, and normal. I DOUBT the US will ever have people sneaking over to pick cotton in Mexico. BESIDES, the WORST that can happen to a mexican sneaking to the US is a SMALL fine and 6 months in jail, for a misdemeanor, and it is NOT likely to happen! The worst that can happen to an american sneaking to mexico is DEATH while trying to survive a 10 year sentence in jail for a FELONY! And THAT HAS happened.

    BTW has anyone heard about unschooling in the US? YIKES! One can only wonder what will happen to THEM!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148699].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author inter123
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      ....Well, they got good schools, from FOREIGN funding,
      In addition, foreign powers such as the British came along and plundered the resources from far flung lands to get to where they are now!

      I can't comment on IT related matters but I am currently located in the UK and many businesses such as banks outsource work to India, Philipines and the like.

      When calling HSBC bank I reach an agent in the above mentioned countries and the service on offer is significantly better then the one offered by the locals.

      These call center jobs in the UK are not the best paid, tend to attract people who just can't be bothered / are lazy. The people may be familiar with the local cultures and norms but with the pay being low, they can't either be bothered or just lack the skills to provide a first class service.

      The service I receive from overseas call centres is definately a notch above the local service, I am dealing with someone who is most likely highly qualified, professional and take their role seriously.

      Perhaps with IT and IM activities, its a totally different ball game. I suppose a programmer in the UK, would command a good salary and therefore as an overall the the individuals are likely to be adept at what they do.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148790].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Cezar R Abadiano
        Originally Posted by inter123 View Post

        These call center jobs in the UK are not the best paid, tend to attract people who just can't be bothered / are lazy. The people may be familiar with the local cultures and norms but with the pay being low, they can't either be bothered or just lack the skills to provide a first class service.

        The service I receive from overseas call centers is definitely a notch above the local service, I am dealing with someone who is most likely highly qualified, professional and take their role seriously.
        The call centers in countries like the Philippines are not that well paid considering the hours you work and the standards you need to follow.

        Usually for call centers that deal with U.S. or European clients the work hours is at night because of the time difference. Typical working time is 10 hours per day and does not yet include start of shift meetings or end of shift meetings.

        Ad those and it can be as high as 14 hours - again depending on the call center.

        On top of that you only get 3 maybe 4 (if you're lucky) 15 minute breaks and a 30-minute or 1 hour lunch break (again if you're lucky). Those breaks are scheduled and so if you want to go to the bathroom you have to wait for your break time schedule, especially if there are a lot of calls coming in.

        As for highly qualified - depends on your definition. The only requirement in the to be a call center agent in the Philippines is a undergraduate degree. That's it. They get trained on the product and service for about 3 to 4 weeks and then they are let loose on the floor.

        And while the salaries are not that high especially if you have a family to take care of unfortunately they are often the only jobs worth it. But then again that explains the high turn-over rate as well.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2150916].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by inter123 View Post

        In addition, foreign powers such as the British came along and plundered the resources from far flung lands to get to where they are now!
        Well, IRONICALLY, if not for that, they would STILL be in that feudal state, etc...

        Originally Posted by inter123 View Post

        I can't comment on IT related matters but I am currently located in the UK and many businesses such as banks outsource work to India, Philipines and the like.

        When calling HSBC bank I reach an agent in the above mentioned countries and the service on offer is significantly better then the one offered by the locals.
        Well, that isn't how it is in the US. HERE, they no longer have tech support! What they CALL tech support is merely the old customer support. If you call up a "computer place" for help installing a USB driver, they may wonder what USB is!

        Perhaps with IT and IM activities, its a totally different ball game. I suppose a programmer in the UK, would command a good salary and therefore as an overall the the individuals are likely to be adept at what they do.
        well, companies don't want to pay what they once did. Ironically, one customer said they liked me and all, but I was the most expensive one, and they couldn't afford me. I was there for almost a year. I not only did the work assigned to me, AND another who left, but I helped out everyone else, took half the workload from another, and was one there supporting tests all through the night. They paid me the same they would have if I did only my work. So they certainly got their money's worth from me. Oh, And I should mention that almost ALL there were INDIAN! There was ONE that I believe was american, and he was arab. He was a nice guy, and I consider him a friend. He was one of the best workers there, but I still helped HIM a good bit ALSO!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2153077].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Well, that isn't how it is in the US. HERE, they no longer have tech support! What they CALL tech support is merely the old customer support. If you call up a "computer place" for help installing a USB driver, they may wonder what USB is!
          Steve,

          Maybe this will help...






          ~Bill
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2153215].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author brieat
    No, I don't think any Canadian/American are going to bend over and start working $5/hr USD.

    What TREND you'll see is more Chinese workers for outsourced projects then before. Russia will join the bandwagon to. But India outsourcing work to US/Canada? LOL.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148704].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lynnw196
    I have been getting cheaper grahic rates in the US lately for smaller projects but larger ones seem to be better rates in India or Phillipines. To be honest I haven't seen much difference in quality. Maybe it's just a lot of younger folks are getting into graphics and a any money is good money to them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2148949].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CpaApp
    lol omg, thats so funny. I thought I'd add some history to the thread.

    Outsourcing did start due to labor costs and in the 80's wallstreet demanded higher profits at any cost. Big corps forced out unions and sent jobs overseas to make shareholders richer.

    There are a few other factors like some of R. Reagan advisers being ex wallstreet bankers (history repeats itself, look at current us admin) and quite a few other factors but it would take too long to go through them all.

    Still that's very funny how roles can be changed so quickly. I also saw a CNN report about Indian IT Execs moving back to India because there are better job offers there.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2149525].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SeanIM
    Not even slightly concerned about this trend. Had a big company in San Francisco contact me 1st, then go with an Indian team...they came back to me after getting 'so so' results...they now outrank Wikipedia results for an important term for their biz. More importantly when they needed to 'go sideways relevant' in their market I knew their biz and provided consulting beyond that someone from an 'only' link gen mode could provide.

    Another case, I picked up a client during a few week test case, of hitting cheap outsourcing boards....you'll know her name from this board in the 'offline marketing space'...being able to stand out in a crowd of overseas/outsourcing pidgeons is easy if you are a peacock and know how to hit your space with in-depth marketing concepts and results based marketing. The client work and eventual JV work has been worth xx,xxx from landing that client. A major part of this is that saavy business owners are more than willing to pay for 'experienced and authentic LOCAL' access to their consultant on the phone, on a similar time zone.

    As I told another partner of mine just starting out doing sales for me/us in another state...when he sees lowballers...I have to remind him we do "NOT" compete on pricing, but rather only need to focus on real US businesses that want results and to work with US-based individuals.

    Don't sweat the overseas competition...if you position yourself correctly it's sooooooooo a NON issue.

    Game-face on...

    Hope this helps.

    S

    PS: There is a time and place to utilize overseas labor....however NOT in the areas of quality content creation or in-depth, local, serious business analysis and implementation. Good for repetitive tasks you can't find decent rates in N. America...
    Signature
    Sean Mitchell -
    Online Marketing & Tech Consultant Since 1999
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2150978].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Guni
    Sorry guys, I really feel bad that most of you had bad experience with Indians.

    Guni
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151332].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Guni View Post

      Sorry guys, I really feel bad that most of you had bad experience with Indians.

      Guni
      Personally, I haven't had a bad experience with Indians or any other nationality. I'm careful when I hire and check portfolions, references, etc. Too me this thread isn't about poor quality as much as it is about increasing prices, which sort of nullifies the very reason that people go outside of their own country for workers.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151365].message }}
    • Originally Posted by Guni View Post

      Sorry guys, I really feel bad that most of you had bad experience with Indians.

      Guni
      Oh -- I wouldn't say I had a 'poor' experience with them, just it was a learning experience.

      And like I said, I've worked with some highly dedicated, very intelligent Indians. It is just sometimes (probably 50%) that I've run into either lowballers, or people that seemed to know what they were doing, but didn't.

      (In fact, I did have one guy take on an article writing project -- if I recall correctly he was from India -- but I didn't realize he had simply cut & paste a canned English response. Obviously the articles didn't match the work. But then I have had some do an excellent programming job. So it depends on the individual).
      Signature
      Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151647].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Shaw
    That type of outsourcing is very clear on many people. The amount you are trying to pay for people in India is considered to be a big amount already therefore hiring people coming from developing countries will help you achieve a good quality of work but also at a much cheaper rate.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151371].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author wiseleo
    I make it a selling point that my employees are all based in USA.

    It reinforces the perception of "premium" service.

    That being said, I have no problems hiring someone overseas to bring my prototype code to production quality. I just know how to hire them. Before you hire a dev team, give them a test that validates the skill.

    As far as pricing is concerned, the competition among these people is brutal. You typically pay more for someone with verified track record and they steadily increase prices. If you wish to take a chance on someone with no record, the prices are substantially lower.

    So, how do you find that diamond in the rough? Post a small portion of your project and hire a bunch of people. Whoever completes it the best gets hired for a larger part.

    By the way, if you want to spend less time editing videos, hire someone who has been through the Toastmasters program. Anyone who is CC (Competent Communicator) or better usually will speak clear of any filler words. We teach that as a large part of the program. For my own videos, I usually only have to clean up dead space, which is very easy to see on the waveform. I never use filler words like Um Uh etc...

    The next step up from there is to hire someone who is a professional voice-over artist. They are not cheap and by that point you are morphing into a production company.
    Signature

    I run a few startups that address critical business problems. PM or Skype me about joining my direct affiliate programs. My products are business continuity and customer testimonials. Both are unique.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151416].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by wiseleo View Post

      I make it a selling point that my employees are all based in USA.

      It reinforces the perception of "premium" service.

      That being said, I have no problems hiring someone overseas to bring my prototype code to production quality. I just know how to hire them. Before you hire a dev team, give them a test that validates the skill.
      So basically, you lie to people about your "premium" service. Great.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2151709].message }}
      • Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        So basically, you lie to people about your "premium" service. Great.
        Lol, actually, I'm not sure he said he did that...

        But the perception that the service is better, because all employees are US based, I might tend to agree with (simply because I'm sure everyone has had an experience of being re-routed to some other country/call center to get some kind of service, and not only could they not understand what was being said, but nothing got resolved).

        Also, with how people perceive the economy nowadays -- there is a lot of 'pro-usa', 'buy it in the usa', 'support your country, buy local' mentality...

        So I would agree that people would perceive his business to be of better quality, if everyone is based in the USA.
        Signature
        Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2152649].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by InternetSuccess001 View Post

          Lol, actually, I'm not sure he said he did that...

          But the perception that the service is better, because all employees are US based, I might tend to agree with (simply because I'm sure everyone has had an experience of being re-routed to some other country/call center to get some kind of service, and not only could they not understand what was being said, but nothing got resolved).

          Also, with how people perceive the economy nowadays -- there is a lot of 'pro-usa', 'buy it in the usa', 'support your country, buy local' mentality...

          So I would agree that people would perceive his business to be of better quality, if everyone is based in the USA.
          Actually, he did say that.

          I make it a selling point that my employees are all based in USA.

          It reinforces the perception of "premium" service.

          That being said, I have no problems hiring someone overseas to bring my prototype code to production quality. I just know how to hire them. Before you hire a dev team, give them a test that validates the skill.
          And that's what pisses me off. It's deceptive marketing ... if I want a company that is US based and want US based people to work on my project, I fully expect that a company that says that it is US Based and all it's employees are US based to deliver just that.

          The same ploy was being used on Elance when I was a freelance designer there. All of the offshore providers would list their location as India and US, Brazil and US, which was an outright lie. There were no US offices ... it was designed purely to get those customers who DID want a US based company. So the customers ended up getting exactly what they did not want and that was communications in the middle of the night because of the time difference, people who were not as well versed in US culture, therefore, did not understand the essence of what the customer was looking for, etc. Not to mention, the customers who are want to use US companies because they feel that is good for the US.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2152717].message }}
          • Ah, thanks, my mistake. I *read* that, but didn't see it

            Yes, if he was actually being deceptive & lying (hiring offshore but proclaiming his company to be 100% US based), then that is wrong. Re-reading it -- that appears to be the case, and I agree, he should not be doing that.

            As for Elance, it's not just Elance... I've had people on other sites who purport to be from Canada, the UK, the US, etc -- but literally as soon as they open their mouth to speak (i.e., make a bid request), you know they are full of it... (I had an article writer once that proclaimed to be from the UK... didn't realize he had cut & paste a canned (quality) quote, as soon as he started writing, I was shocked & looked into it further... and obviously he wasn't from where he said he was).


            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Actually, he did say that.



            And that's what pisses me off. It's deceptive marketing ... if I want a company that is US based and want US based people to work on my project, I fully expect that a company that says that it is US Based and all it's employees are US based to deliver just that.

            The same ploy was being used on Elance when I was a freelance designer there. All of the offshore providers would list their location as India and US, Brazil and US, which was an outright lie. There were no US offices ... it was designed purely to get those customers who DID want a US based company. So the customers ended up getting exactly what they did not want and that was communications in the middle of the night because of the time difference, people who were not as well versed in US culture, therefore, did not understand the essence of what the customer was looking for, etc. Not to mention, the customers who are want to use US companies because they feel that is good for the US.
            Signature
            Pick a product. Pick ANY product! -> 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2153162].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Vanquish
    Indias rates will always be cheaper than North America's based on living standards and once you find a good worker in India, you can train him to optimize the work according to your standards while saving money.
    Signature
    Nothing to sell, only value to give and new knowledge to learn.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2152971].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author website design
    Large international business follows no borders any more... it flows to the locations with the lowest cost and lowest acceptable quality. Sad but quality standards are just not that high anymore if companies can hire or pennies on the $.

    India was the cheapest and is moving up the value added chain. If it wants to charge for higher end services then the quality/benefits has to be there otherwise the work will shift to another location such as Israel, East Europe, and the rest of Asia.

    India gets the majority of this outsourcing work from the US and Europe companies so it's doubtful that it would go full circle with India being the middle man hiring US workers.

    Americans have been competing on this international scale for some time now Started off with manufacturing, IT and other services followed... and now it's a rush into value added knowledge outsourcing (instead of the typical business processes in the backend).
    Signature
    no sig needed.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2154230].message }}

Trending Topics