Give value and you'll be rich! [B.S.]

60 replies
Many Warriors keep on saying that if your product is of great quality and value and truly helps people to solve their problem - then you'll make lots of money out of it!

That's total B.S. I tell you. If you do offer such product - it only means you'll get fewer refunds, may be even no refunds at all but you will not necessairly make money... unless you are a GREAT marketer who can rank #1 out out 1,000,000,000 results on Google, or if you somehow succeed to hook up with the known boys, like Filsame, Kern, Silver... who will promote it to their 1,000,000 lists.

Some of the GREATEST info products I ever purchased were only selling a few copies a month... at $30-$60...

AMAZING Content is not enough... Please stop saying it is.

My frustrated rant for the day.

Alex
#give #rich
  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Alex, I hear you - and yes, good products will not sell themselves.

    But try the corollary:

    DON'T give value and you'll be POOR!

    Maybe that rings truer?

    Nice point you make, though.

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      If you listen to the master's- (Not Guru's) closely, they will all tell you the same thing.

      It is not great "products" that will make you rich, but great "systems" that will.

      Food for thought...

      Great products are just a start.

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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        If you listen to the master's- (Not Guru's) closely, they will all tell you the same thing.

        It is not great "products" that will make you rich, but great "systems" that will.

        Food for thought...

        Great products are just a start.

        It's about how you leverage a great product with copy, JVs, buzz, momentum etc etc

        What kiev says is true, networking is very important, but if your product is amazing those known boys won't have any trouble promoting it.

        A great product by itself is not enough, agreed, but leveraging one is so much easier. You need to have one to be able to penetrate in the market succesfuly and not just get a few bucks.

        Sometimes I find hidden gems in Clickbank, amazing products, the creators just don't know how to market them, so I do it for them (and take most of the loot home).
        Signature
        Como Ganar Dinero Por Internet - Spanish Make Money Online Site

        Daniel Molano
        - LinkedIn Profile
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      • Profile picture of the author vorales
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        If you listen to the master's- (Not Guru's) closely, they will all tell you the same thing.

        It is not great "products" that will make you rich, but great "systems" that will.

        Food for thought...

        Great products are just a start.

        Well Alex i do agree with Eric as what he says.

        Its not the product its the "system" that makes you earn money.

        Best ever answer posted.Salutes to Eric.
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      • Profile picture of the author admin
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        If you listen to the master's- (Not Guru's) closely, they will all tell you the same thing.

        It is not great "products" that will make you rich, but great "systems" that will.

        Food for thought...

        Great products are just a start.



        I haven't read this entire thread, but from what I've read so far Eric hit the nail on the head - 100%...

        Great copy will be useless to you without eyeballs.

        And I can sell a total sh*t product IF I have a cheap enough lead funnel..

        "Cheap Lead Funnel".... <--- If I can set one of those up, I can sell millions of dollars worth of almost anything. Bad copy. good copy, great product, completely turd product - it doesn't really matter, I'll still move product.

        The better the copy the faster I'll move it and the more profit I'll make, but I'll still move it either way.

        If the "System" you've set up gets you in front of enough eyeballs you're going to make money, selling some of the most ignorant products I've ever seen. I've seen this live and in living color and know it to be a fact.

        Testing rules - yes - but what testing comes first?

        Many will tell you copy - not true. Testing what "system" gets the maximum number of eyeballs comes first. If you don't get eyeballs, you may as well quit because the best copy in the world is useless.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Alex, I hear you - and yes, good products will not sell themselves.

      But try the corollary:

      DON'T give value and you'll be POOR!

      Maybe that rings truer?

      Nice point you make, though.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      I WISH that was right! It ISN'T! MANY don't give value, and make a KILLING.
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    • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Alex, I hear you - and yes, good products will not sell themselves.

      But try the corollary:

      DON'T give value and you'll be POOR!

      Maybe that rings truer?

      Nice point you make, though.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      That's not true either. You can sell total crap and still get rich.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    One thing I know for sure... If your product has value, then over time you will build a list of satisfied customers... WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO BUY FROM YOU AGAIN... this time it will be high ticket item.

    Yes, you can get rich only when you have a proper system in place, but the thing is that having sales systems won't be effective unless you have a great quality product.

    I'd even go on and say that a list of 200 satisfied buyers who bvuy from you every month is enough to make you rich... Maybe even better than having a list of 2000 prospects who miught buy from you... or might NOT....
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    Originally Posted by kiev View Post

    Many Warriors keep on saying that if your product is of great quality and value and truly helps people to solve their problem - then you'll make lots of money out of it!

    That's total B.S. I tell you. If you do offer such product - it only means you'll get fewer refunds, may be even no refunds at all but you will not necessairly make money... unless you are a GREAT marketer who can rank #1 out out 1,000,000,000 results on Google, or if you somehow succeed to hook up with the known boys, like Filsame, Kern, Silver... who will promote it to their 1,000,000 lists.

    Some of the GREATEST info products I ever purchased were only selling a few copies a month... at $30-$60...

    AMAZING Content is not enough... Please stop saying it is.

    My frustrated rant for the day.

    Alex


    Hey Alex

    You OP contradicts itself from one line to the next.

    What are you'se really angry about here? Cuz it sound like you're almost pushing for socialism in IM marketing.

    Sure there are some great products out there in the $30 to $60 dollar range...and in most of those cases I say...shame on the promoters for NOT charging more!!!

    Shame on them for not believing in their own product enough to charge big bucks for it.

    WOULD THOSE SAME PRODUCTS BE LESS GREAT PRICED AT $997?

    No.

    Why?

    CUZ TRUE QUALITY TRUMPS SPACE, TIME, AND PRICE...WHICH AINT NOTHIN' MORE THEN PERCEIVED VALUE.

    Cuz who can put a price on greatness? If a product does what it should do....it should be priced as high as possible to the market it's intended for. Why else do this stuff?

    Hate to break it to ya....but the IM world is a lot bigger then Filsame, Kern, Silver etc....and you seem to think it's a conspiracy where you need to do some Mafia initiation in order to become a member of some secret society before you're allowed to "get paid.

    That's bullshit.

    That's victim rhetoric.

    That's bein' pissed off over guys like Kern et al...who just so happen to get off their asses and sell stuff better then most do. I don't recall them ever taken a dime from me...because of it.

    That's what bitter, angry, frustrated people vent when they need an excuse for why they aint sellin.'

    Please don't be a part of that group, bro. You're bigger then that.

    The guys you'se mentioned...are just smart enough to pool resources, lists, minds, and marketing....and what's wrong with that? What they do aint got jack shit to do with what you do....or what you CAN do..if you choose to do it. Capiche.

    Part of your OP answers your own question.....it's often about marketing trumping the offer. Cuz the greatest product in the world don't sell-- if you don't let the peeps know it's available for sale.

    A mediocre product that's well marketed...will out sell a great product that collects dust on the shelf.

    Be your own guru.


    xxxVegas Vince
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      The basic successful product marketing strategy is actually quite simple:

      # 1: Find a cashed up hungry market you can get easy and economical access to.

      # 2: Create a high quality product based around what that market desperately wants and needs.

      # 3: Offer them the product you've created in a compelling way.


      Notice that finding the market and easy economical access to the market is number 1.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

      What are you'se really angry about here? Cuz it sound like you're almost pushing for socialism in IM marketing.

      Sure there are some great products out there in the $30 to $60 dollar range...and in most of those cases I say...shame on the promoters for NOT charging more!!!

      Shame on them for not believing in their own product enough to charge big bucks for it.

      WOULD THOSE SAME PRODUCTS BE LESS GREAT PRICED AT $997?
      WOW, do you realize what this forum would be like if things were like that?!?!?!?!?!?!?

      I, early on, wanted to create a search engine. That was BEFORE I heard about yahoo(did it even exist?) and before Google. Apparently it was before PERL was really released. So why didn't I do it? Systems that allowed such programs, etc... were EXPENSIVE! My little window slammed shut, and I didn't do anything else like that until like 1998.

      REDHAT sold their commerce linux version for like $99 later. They probably sold FAR fewer than any other, but it was a BARGAIN against other REAL UNIXs that cost THOUSANDS! And what of the MS version of IIS that later came out that sold for THOUSANDS!?!? AGAIN, Apache's FREE version beat it HANDS DOWN! And what of the company I once saw at comdex that sold an ecommerce package for over $10,000!?!?!? Do you REALLY think they would sell many today?

      BE HAPPY for the "socialism" in programming(which affected IM). You ALL benefited!(Even the computer illiterate mother that can't boot up her own computer!) HECK, I first learned Pascal on a pirated version of UCSD. I couldn't afford the HUGE price tag for it. A company came in an UPSET the entire market! BORLAND! The cost PLUMMETED! They did the same with C and C++! And what of all the wars in the office area and word processing!?!? The cost for an OFFICE package is now TYPICALLY HALF of what a word processor used to be! ISPs USED to charge BY THE MINUTE!

      I could go on and on! The very IDEA that there is a computer that can EASILY be used on an airplane, has an O/S, FULL networking, FULL SERVERS, can hook up to a world wide network, is 100% SOLID STATE, and has 64GB(maybe MORE), and costs less than $1000 sounds like SCIFI!!!!!!! Even like 5 years ago, people might have said YEAH RIGHT!(sarc) And, TODAY, it is HERE! I'm waiting for the capacity to go up a bit, and the price to come down. Maybe in a few months it will be 128GB and cost less than $600!

      BTW my definition of solid state is SOLID state! NO moving parts, outside of maybe the keyboard keys, and the hinges. NO hard drive, etc...

      Sometimes people charge less because they CAN, or because they want to help!

      OK, TELL THE TRUTH! How many people wouldn't be here without O/S software!?!?!?!? To those that didn't raise your hands.... You are ignorant, or liars. EVEN WINDOWS wouldn't really have networking without O/S software. HECK, windows is BUILT on O/S concepts and conceived from O/S projects.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Adam Carn
      Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post


      That's bein' pissed off over guys like Kern et al...who just so happen to get off their asses and sell stuff better then most do. I don't recall them ever taken a dime from me...because of it.
      Not everyone has the confidence or the energy of Frank Kern, John Reese, Jeff Walker or Vegas Vince.

      Their products sell not only because of their reputation, or the fact that they're heavily active in their campaigs but because they're charismatic. They're good with people. This coupled with bursting energy is a winning combination. Unfortunately not everyone is blessed with this so they have to make do with what they got to be successful.

      Adam
      Signature
      Taking a break...
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

      You OP contradicts itself from one line to the next.

      What are you'se really angry about here? Cuz it sound like you're almost pushing for socialism in IM marketing.
      Can you point out the contradictions in his post, since I can't see them?

      He doesn't sound angry at all. I think his basic point is that a great product by itself isn't enough if you don't market it properly - I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. It's pretty much common sense.

      He's rejecting the Field of Dreams mentality, and rightfully so.

      I'm not sure why you bring up socialism - I don't see him calling for bigger government or anything like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Alex - you're right!


    Too many people are focused on themselves and their product and think that the quality of the product some-how relates to how it will sell. When it comes to information products that's just not true.

    Nothing happens until someone buys it.

    As Mani stated - if it sucks, you'll get refunds (and maybe even if it is great)

    If you can't sell it - it's irrelevant how good it is.

    This is why sales copy is so important - you can sell a bad product with good copy, but you can't sell a good product with bad copy.

    Andy
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Alex - you're right!


      Too many people are focused on themselves and their product and think that the quality of the product some-how relates to how it will sell. When it comes to information products that's just not true.

      Nothing happens until someone buys it.

      As Mani stated - if it sucks, you'll get refunds (and maybe even if it is great)

      If you can't sell it - it's irrelevant how good it is.

      This is why sales copy is so important - you can sell a bad product with good copy, but you can't sell a good product with bad copy.

      Andy

      Andy.....

      Good copy can't save a loser of a product in the long run....it just prolongs the agany. Cuz eventually the masses of buyers revolt en masee....cuz they know they got screwed.

      I always believed it was better to find a great offer...and let the rest of it take care of itself.

      A great offer "don't" need great copywriting...the offer sells itself:

      ROLLS ROYCE. 1967. limited edition/ mint condition...runs like a champ. FOR SALE. Don't really know what this is worth..but I'll take$10k oBO. mY grandma just died and it was her car. Had it parked in the garage past 20 some years. It like has only 17K original miles miles on it. I need money...to bury her. First buyer with cash takes it home. Call Vegas Vince xxx xxx xxx


      xxxVegas Vince


      Bullhead City Arizona. Water. $10 bucks a glass. Next water stop.....852 miles.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
        Vince, you do make a great point and I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'll blame it on English being my 5th language, okay?

        So, I do not think there is a secret society of "GURUS" that I need to be a part of to make it "BIG". The names I gave as example are simply the names that everyone has heard at least 100,000 times in the past 6 months or so...

        I do great with some product, I do horribly with others - I know it and I take up on every chance to improve the bad ones.

        The point of the thread, once again, was that the quality is not THE ONLY thing that matters. Marketing is VERY VERY VERY important... But I guess I just suck at it. I'd sell a great IM product for LESS money - simply so more folks could afford it. I want to help as many people as I can, but I just don't see how 1 person can do a $1,000,000 launch WITHOUT having all those "big boys" promoting that launch. Maybe I am not creative enough, maybe I haven't learned it yet (I know I will get there one day)...

        Anyways...


        Alex
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        Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
        The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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        • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
          Originally Posted by kiev View Post

          Vince, you do make a great point and I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'll blame it on English being my 5th language, okay?

          So, I do not think there is a secret society of "GURUS" that I need to be a part of to make it "BIG". The names I gave as example are simply the names that everyone has heard at least 100,000 times in the past 6 months or so...

          I do great with some product, I do horribly with others - I know it and I take up on every chance to improve the bad ones.

          The point of the thread, once again, was that the quality is not THE ONLY thing that matters. Marketing is VERY VERY VERY important... But I guess I just suck at it. I'd sell a great IM product for LESS money - simply so more folks could afford it. I want to help as many people as I can, but I just don't see how 1 person can do a $1,000,000 launch WITHOUT having all those "big boys" promoting that launch. Maybe I am not creative enough, maybe I haven't learned it yet (I know I will get there one day)...

          Anyways...


          Alex


          Hey bro....I suggest you RAISE YOUR PRICE.

          And then double your expectations.

          It will make you feel better...and it will seperate the tire kickers and strokes...from the people you're trying to help. People who will pay money for something that delivers quality to their lives. For real.

          Perception is reality...and sadly....people equate value with price and that goes both ways.

          They want something cheap when it comes to buying toothpicks...but when it comes to something that can change their lives...they penalize people who don't charge them enough...even if they bitch and whine over the high price...they'll pay it if it delivers.

          2. What makes you'se think you need to do a million dollar launch? What exactly is a million dollar launch anyway? I think it's a cliche.

          Don't use that as an excuse not to launch...cuz if that's the case...none of us would launch much of anything.....cuz we would all figure we weren't good enough..or worthy enough...to get in the game.

          That's not true. The playin' field in IM is a hell of a lot more fair then most. No boo hooin'...capiche.

          That's why the same gurus keep keepin' on....cuz most of their competition are people who never get in the game...and compete.


          xxxVegas Vince
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
            Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

            Hey bro....I suggest you RAISE YOUR PRICE.

            And then double your expectations.

            It will make you feel better...and it will seperate the tire kickers and strokes...from the people you're trying to help. People who will pay money for something that delivers quality to their lives. For real.

            Perception is reality...and sadly....people equate value with price and that goes both ways.

            They want something cheap when it comes to buying toothpicks...but when it comes to something that can change their lives...they penalize people who don't charge them enough...even if they bitch and whine over the high price...they'll pay it if it delivers.

            2. What makes you'se think you need to do a million dollar launch? What exactly is a million dollar launch anyway? I think it's a cliche.

            Don't use that as an excuse not to launch...cuz if that's the case...none of us would launch much of anything.....cuz we would all figure we weren't good enough..or worthy enough...to get in the game.

            That's not true. The playin' field in IM is a hell of a lot more fair then most. No boo hooin'...capiche.

            That's why the same gurus keep keepin' on....cuz most of their competition are people who never get in the game...and compete.


            xxxVegas Vince
            I did, launch.
            And my 1000 people list bought it and they were happy. But that's as far as it went. I guess I tried to reach the wrong audience, next time, I guess.

            You reply leaves me wondering...




            Loz, thanks for a great reply.
            Signature
            Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
            The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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            • Profile picture of the author askloz
              Did you just offer one product?

              Didn't you have any upsells or downsells?

              with 1,000 members, you shouldn't have a problem making over $500,000 if you structure what you're selling properly, and don't forget the back end stuff via auto responders.

              Spend time with those 1000 people, call them up from time to time asking them how they are doing, and if they need any help with anything. Once they see you're on their side and not just in it for the money, the money will come without even thinking about it.

              Originally Posted by kiev View Post

              I did, launch.
              And my 1000 people list bought it and they were happy. But that's as far as it went. I guess I tried to reach the wrong audience, next time, I guess.

              You reply leaves me wondering...
              Signature
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              • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
                Originally Posted by askloz View Post

                Did you just offer one product?

                Didn't you have any upsells or downsells?

                with 1,000 members, you shouldn't have a problem making over $500,000 if you structure what you're selling properly, and don't forget the back end stuff via auto responders.

                Spend time with those 1000 people, call them up from time to time asking them how they are doing, and if they need any help with anything. Once they see you're on their side and not just in it for the money, the money will come without even thinking about it.
                I didn't sell anything else. I know I should have.
                I gave my phone number to all of them, a few called back to say they liked the product - no one asked for help, even though I offered it.

                Another thing, yes there are 1000 people in that list, only 10% purchased...


                Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

                How much more bling bling would you have made if you had doubled the price?

                That's water under the bridge. Moving forward....

                If your list loved your product...make sure your next product you sell them.... is sold for more money....and don't even blink about it. If it fails...you can always cut the price...on a follow up....so why not take a shot?

                You wont have to feel guilty or explain anything....cuz you have already established credibility with them.

                Good luck, bro.

                xxxVegas Vince
                Thanks for that. I will reconsider my price in the future.
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                Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
                The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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                • Profile picture of the author ivana
                  If you recommend bad product to your list, your list won't trust you and you can say bye bye to making money. So yeah, it does not have to be excellent, but decent at least.
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                  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
                    If the product isn't upto par why recommend it when
                    you can just hire someone to create a better product
                    and you sell it to your customers and keep 100% of
                    the profits and you can maybe workout a deal with
                    other list owners to sell it for you...

                    just my 2c

                    --David
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                    JV partnership wanted, Lets grow your list for free. Nothing to do with giveaways. PM Now
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            • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
              Originally Posted by kiev View Post

              I did, launch.
              And my 1000 people list bought it and they were happy. But that's as far as it went. I guess I tried to reach the wrong audience, next time, I guess.

              You reply leaves me wondering...

              How much more bling bling would you have made if you had doubled the price?

              That's water under the bridge. Moving forward....

              If your list loved your product...make sure your next product you sell them.... is sold for more money....and don't even blink about it. If it fails...you can always cut the price...on a follow up....so why not take a shot?

              You wont have to feel guilty or explain anything....cuz you have already established credibility with them.

              Good luck, bro.

              xxxVegas Vince
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by VegasVince View Post

        Andy.....

        Good copy can't save a loser of a product in the long run....it just prolongs the agany. Cuz eventually the masses of buyers revolt en masee....cuz they know they got screwed.

        [True]

        I always believed it was better to find a great offer...and let the rest of it take care of itself.

        A great offer "don't" need great copywriting...the offer sells itself:
        I think your division between 'copy' and 'offer' is what's creating the apparent disagreement.

        The offer is only as good as the words describing it - the copy.

        There is no great offer without great copy - they go hand in hand.

        It's true that some things have an intrinsic value (like a vintage car), but people still want to know WHY it's of value.

        Giving away something for free might seem like a great offer, but many people will need to know why it's free (skepticism is natural).

        So I think we actually agree - but you're just being pedantic in order to make me respond to you

        Andy
        Signature

        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
          Yes, a great product doesn't guarantee you'll get rich.

          But a crappy product does guarantee that you'll be out of business.

          So, create create products and then develop the marketing to sell that great product.
          Signature
          Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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        • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          I think your division between 'copy' and 'offer' is what's creating the apparent disagreement.

          The offer is only as good as the words describing it - the copy.

          There is no great offer without great copy - they go hand in hand.

          It's true that some things have an intrinsic value (like a vintage car), but people still want to know WHY it's of value.

          Giving away something for free might seem like a great offer, but many people will need to know why it's free (skepticism is natural).

          So I think we actually agree - but you're just being pedantic in order to make me respond to you

          Andy



          Hey Andy...off the record...what exactly does pedantic mean?

          And does the proper use of a condom prevent the possibility of catching pedantic?

          It's all good, bro.

          xxxVegas Vince

          If pedantic means "great" ..I'm pedantic.
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    I don't personally think like that.

    If your product is good enough, then you wont see any refunds. But from time to time you may get the odd one or two, it's just how it is.

    For sure, offering more to people isn't just about closing more sales (then again I guess that depends from person to person).

    Personally I couldn't care less. My goal is to give people more then what they originally bought. I was in the same boat as many of my customers, low on income, sick and tired of the owners not spending the time with me to answer my question, or they would for a while then just give up.

    These are the main elements that make a product worth its price: The product is only as good as the support one receives, not just for one day, but for life. It's the way I have approached my members, and to this very day, those who bought products from me in the past I still continue to help them out without expecting them to buy anything from me in the future.

    It builds a loyal member base - spend the time with them and help them out when you can and they'll buy from you again and again and again.

    Turning out $1million launches doesn't come over night - those that say it does is full of it.

    I started my first product with Video Guide To Profits. I've not marketed it very much and don't intend to. I've only made around 130 sales so far in a year, ok, not a lot, but I'm not desperate for money - I'd rather spend more time helping them out... And due to the loyalty I've shown them, in the first week I promoted my new course "How To Trade Foreign Currencies" and filled up the first 5 spots at $3,247 each. And I have several others wanting to get in as well.

    Do things because you care about others success, and your $1million launches could just be around the corner.
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  • Profile picture of the author Markus Wahlgren
    A tiny distinction that means a world of difference:
    A great *product* does not sell itself. A truly great *offer* does.

    Recommended: The irresistible offer - Mark Joyner (available free now The Irresistible Offer ) A proof right there that it holds true, I am promoting his optin page without any benefit for me ha ha
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    Note; I am back.

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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    The greatest product in the world with poor marketing = Low/no Sales
    The crappiest product in the world with excellent marketing/distribution/jvs= More Sales

    You have to exapand your distribution and that is when the sales come in, the reason why many are making lots of money in IM is because they have wide ditsributions and lots of partners/Jvs/Affiliates.

    Some do get their sales via ppc/seo as well but them huge product launches usually have lots of people behind the scene.
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  • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
    There is some great advice in this thread.

    Thanks for starting it Alex.

    I absolutely see your point. I am sure there are many examples
    in history of a lesser quality product out-selling the competition
    thanks to better positioning, marketing, partnering etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Alex...

    In all honest dude... you need a back end with your product.. that n00b market is screaming for upsells and direction...

    A guy with your talent could upsell on a higher priced product of your own, YOU have the ability to create a killer upsell for it, don't let your funnel stop at that product...

    Believe me dude, your affiliate's will thank you for having a product that has a back end..

    I looked at MOMU because of Travis' backend

    Products that allow affiliates to earn on the back end are a must right now if your chosen PP is Clickbank..

    Personally if a product is with CB right now, there better be a damn good reason for my time, because CB isn't the hottest property in town..IMHO.

    Affiliate's WILL come screamin for you if you put an upsell into that funnel dude..

    Just my .02

    Peace

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author TheNightOwl
    I agree with JordanFrancis: there is some great food for thought here.

    Including, in part, what Kiev says. I just read another thread bleating on about creating remarkable content. Nothing to truly disagree with so perhaps I shouldn't be so uncharitable with my use of "bleating". I think Kiev is probably just echoing a frustration felt by a lotta folks.

    There certainly is this big hoo-hah about "killer content" and "content is king" and so on. But I'm not sure that's quite right.

    Why does some silly news story about the latest vacuous bimbo or buff stud get 80million views on any given day?

    Where's the quality content there? What's remarkable about that?

    (Actually, some folks might--lookout Vince, here comes that STI again--be pedantic about that point and insist that what I call inconsequential gossiping is, in fact, remarkable by virtue of so many people remarking on it. Whatever.)

    The people who've spoken about the offer have, I think, made an extremely valuable point here. First... make a market an offer it can't refuse and then back it up with value.

    But Kiev's point is still valid: That ain't gonna necessarily have money coming in the door.

    And that's where all the good advice here about smart marketing comes into play, I guess.

    I'm not suggesting hoodwinking people ("Down, Vince, down!"), or doing the old bait'n'switch once you've got them to your content or anything else. But ya gotta be making them an offer that's gonna "change their live for reals".

    This is, in a way Marketing 101, right? But I still think Kiev's OP shouldn't be completely dismissed because there seems to be a truckload (no, make that an aircraft carrier load) of people online who just want load after load after load of free-free-free content and the minute you even hint at making money they throw their arms up and accuse you being a charlatan.

    I know, that's just some folks. And some niches.

    But surely you've all experienced it.

    (Which would probably mean it ain't just some niches.)

    The point is that great content isn't actually enough, but it's easy to construct the "build it and they will come" fallacy in your own head when every man and his dog are always bangin on about "killer content" and "content is king" and so on.

    A couple of people have pointed out the corollary, i.e. that shite content won't get you jack. THAT's the message that should be promulgated more because what's really meant by the "content in king" argument, in my opinion, is:

    Great content, plus an irresistible offer and great copy to spin it, plus super value, plus marketing systems that generate leads and handle all the laborious stuff, plus a back end of the type that would have SirMixalot a-lip-smackin...

    ...equals dollars.

    Dunno. Now I'm just rambling. And a quick review of my post so far tells me I've not been as consistent as I would have liked.

    Whaddayathink?

    -------------------------------------

    @Vince... I think you've probably given a lotta folks a good kick in the cobblers here with what you've said. It's really good stuff, man. Rock on.

    Particularly this bit:

    People who will pay money for something that delivers quality to their lives. For real.

    Perception is reality...and sadly....people equate value with price and that goes both ways.

    They want something cheap when it comes to buying toothpicks...but when it comes to something that can change their lives...they penalize people who don't charge them enough...even if they bitch and whine over the high price...they'll pay it if it delivers.

    That last post, though, bro... what can I say? I'm bustin a gut here, dude!

    Out.

    TheNightOwl
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by TheNightOwl View Post

      ...what's really meant by the "content in king" argument, in my opinion, is:

      Great content, plus an irresistible offer and great copy to spin it, plus super value, plus marketing systems that generate leads and handle all the laborious stuff, plus a back end of the type that would have SirMixalot a-lip-smackin...

      ...equals dollars.

      ...

      TheNightOwl
      GOLD I tell you!
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      Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
      The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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  • Profile picture of the author Stanley Tang
    Originally Posted by kiev View Post

    Many Warriors keep on saying that if your product is of great quality and value and truly helps people to solve their problem - then you'll make lots of money out of it!

    That's total B.S. I tell you. If you do offer such product - it only means you'll get fewer refunds, may be even no refunds at all but you will not necessairly make money... unless you are a GREAT marketer who can rank #1 out out 1,000,000,000 results on Google, or if you somehow succeed to hook up with the known boys, like Filsame, Kern, Silver... who will promote it to their 1,000,000 lists.

    Some of the GREATEST info products I ever purchased were only selling a few copies a month... at $30-$60...

    AMAZING Content is not enough... Please stop saying it is.

    My frustrated rant for the day.

    Alex
    Sorry. 100% disagree. I can almost guarantee you that if you are able to create a blog and post one quality article EVERY SINGLE DAY for four years straight then your blog will certainly have become an authority.

    Same with products. Create a product with super great value that is remarkable i.e. something that is worth making an remark about, then you don't need to hook up with Kern or Filsaime. The word of mouth will kick in (if its really that GOOD).

    Value is the key. Amazing content over time is enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dmitry
      I always like to give the example of the good looking car and the reliable car. Looks is what sells, performance/value is what creates customers. And by the way stop focusing on this IM niche.

      Originally Posted by Stanley Tang View Post

      Sorry. 100% disagree. I can almost guarantee you that if you are able to create a blog and post one quality article EVERY SINGLE DAY for four years straight then your blog will certainly have become an authority.

      Same with products. Create a product with super great value that is remarkable i.e. something that is worth making an remark about, then you don't need to hook up with Kern or Filsaime. The word of mouth will kick in (if its really that GOOD).

      Value is the key. Amazing content over time is enough.
      Why post for 4 years when I can become an authority in 4 days? What is authority? It's someone's perception of you. It's not real. You can't touch it, can you? Idealism won't get you far. People want to be sold. I didn't invent this, it's just the way it works. So sell the dream. Then backup with value.

      And speaking of value and quality. I hear these words a lot. But I have the impression that most of the people shouting these two words perceive them as something abstract. So what is value, what is quality? Who decides this?

      A pretty classic example if someone wants a pill for their headache even if that pill isn't the real solution - what would provide value to this person - you teaching them how to get deep down and cure their problem after 10 years of frustration, or simply giving the pill?

      Bottom line is - if someone is happy then they've got their value... and I got mine - so the exchange was successful. Again, idealism won't get you far. And sometimes it can become dangerous.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stanley Tang
        Originally Posted by Dmitry View Post

        I always like to give the example of the good looking car and the reliable car. Looks is what sells, performance/value is what creates customers. And by the way stop focusing on this IM niche.



        Why post for 4 years when I can become an authority in 4 days? What is authority? It's someone's perception of you. It's not real. You can't touch it, can you? Idealism won't get you far. People want to be sold. I didn't invent this, it's just the way it works. So sell the dream. Then backup with value.

        And speaking of value and quality. I hear these words a lot. But I have the impression that most of the people shouting these two words perceive them as something abstract. So what is value, what is quality? Who decides this?

        A pretty classic example if someone wants a pill for their headache even if that pill isn't the real solution - what would provide value to this person - you teaching them how to get deep down and cure their problem after 10 years of frustration, or simply giving the pill?

        Bottom line is - if someone is happy then they've got their value... and I got mine - so the exchange was successful. Again, idealism won't get you far. And sometimes it can become dangerous.
        I'm referring to blogs like Problogger, Shoemoney, Techcrunch. The reason I dont say 4 days cause those blogs didn't rose to the top in four days. I don't think any blog will become an authority within 4 days via word of mouth alone. THe reason I say 4 years is because you have to be consistence and persistence in providing value. Not just do it for one month and give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joeez
    I think "value" depends on the person giving the evaluation. Something that I buy and love may not be at all right for someone else. I might think a $100,000 sports car is a great value, while an 80 year old grandma wouldn't want the thing if you gave it to her for free. Anyway, some famous person that I can't remember said that "reality isn't important, only perception matters." Sad but true.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Marketers complicate this process and for the life of me, I can't understand
      why.

      1. Research your market. Find out what their problems are. Find a solution
      to their problem or come up with one.

      2. Create the solution, or get a hold of one that exists. This would be
      affiliate marketing.

      3. Price your solution. This will be based on other solutions that are already
      selling. If there are none, do your research. Take surveys. Ask what people
      would pay.

      4. Write your sales copy or have a pro do it for you.

      5. Market your solution. There are tons of ways to do this on today's
      internet.

      6. Get others interested in helping you market your solution, either through
      affiliates or JVs or whatever.

      This is not rocket science. But, if you ask me what the most important
      part of the process is, it's giving your target market what they want, not
      what they need. Big difference. Because if they don't want it, they won't
      buy it...no matter how much marketing you do.
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    Let me add to my post above...

    If what we are really talking about here is the bottom line, the profits you make, then all this talk of value is also BS.

    I know one particular multi-millionaire who has never provided a single written word of value in his entire life unless it was to me and other friends in a private message.

    He sells millions of dollars worth of product and can barely write a decent letter to his own Mother.

    You can do "value" till you choke and still be a bum with 20 cents in the bank. (I'm not downing providing value, please try and read between the lines here)

    So what does this millionaire do?

    He gets eyeballs...millions of them, and leads them to buy products other people sell. That's all. He's bypassed "copy"...he's bypassed "Value"...he's bypassed writing "articles"...he went past all of that.

    I'm not saying any particular approach is wrong, but I'm seeing people state things as though they are rules and requirements without which you will fail.

    Like I said in a post recently, if I were starting over or starting new I would invest everything into building an authority site on the topic of health. Not because I care about articles or value, but because I care about "eyeballs" - millions of them. Don't project your "morals" on me, I'm just trying to make a point here.

    What are you going to set up to get millions of eyeballs?

    That is what you need to be thinking about...

    Are you going to create a massive authority site that rakes in million of eyeballs from google?

    Are you going to create something so incredibly awesome it's raved about in every corner of the globe?

    Are you going to set up a paid advertising system that gets unlimited amounts of leads converting at a profit so the system is self funding and virtually never ending?

    And on and on. It's the "system" you need to think about first and foremost.

    Back in the early days affiliates was my system for eyeballs. And it set me for life. I did some pretty unique things back then that are not so unique now, like coming out with the first affiliate ID brandable ebooks. That was new and a raving success.

    There are many paths to take, but if that path doesn't include a viable plan for getting in front of millions of eyeballs you simply aren't going to get anywhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
    So the answer is ignore quality and value - just focus on marketing and you will be wealthy...hmmmm

    Good luck!

    Jeff

    Originally Posted by kiev View Post

    Many Warriors keep on saying that if your product is of great quality and value and truly helps people to solve their problem - then you'll make lots of money out of it!

    That's total B.S. I tell you. If you do offer such product - it only means you'll get fewer refunds, may be even no refunds at all but you will not necessairly make money... unless you are a GREAT marketer who can rank #1 out out 1,000,000,000 results on Google, or if you somehow succeed to hook up with the known boys, like Filsame, Kern, Silver... who will promote it to their 1,000,000 lists.

    Some of the GREATEST info products I ever purchased were only selling a few copies a month... at $30-$60...

    AMAZING Content is not enough... Please stop saying it is.

    My frustrated rant for the day.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
      Allen - how do you build an authority site without giving your audience some value?

      I agree - the system is important, but if I look at the authority sites in major markets I see strong value being added, the value might be...

      1. Researched, one-stop shop for content
      2. Training, multimedia
      3. Product reviews (value being applied use of product someone is considering buying)
      And so on...

      You mentioned your use of affiliate programs which certainly was a system - but did that system not depend on having decent quality ebooks in which your affiliates could tag their ID's?

      Granted, when ebooks first came out the quality didn't need to be as high as today - there's so much noise that if today people wanted to use this approach it would have to offer fantastic value.

      Also - your example of a buddy that made millions by matching eyeballs with products - chances are the products he sold were good quality - no? Not only would he have made millions - isn't there also product developers that would have received the other 50% of the wealth by having the product this person promoted?

      Certainly people need to decide if their primary business model will be product related (info products, licensed or drop-shipped goods, services, etc...) or affiliate marketing/JV - then add value to their given target market. In the case of product developers, they may choose to add tremendous value to their affiliates to bring super-affiliates on board wherease the affiliates need to uncover the way to offer their customers value which may be reviews, case studies, a well-organized product catalog, personality....

      Jeff
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      • Profile picture of the author admin
        Administrator
        Hi Jeff,

        You definitely "should" provide value in some way. I was trying to make the point that value alone does not and will not ever cut it.

        I also know a millionaire that sells weight loss pills that are about as useless as drinking water to lose weight. No value there at all.

        And honestly, the multi-millionaire I referred to? Also sells products that I personally wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. But even if he sold the best of the best it still doesn't matter - it's his system that really makes him the money.

        The thing I'm getting at is a problem so many people have, they get stuck on value and copy and 10 thousand other things while missing one of the most vital parts of the whole thing - the system. Without it you can have all the value and all the morals possible and you still won't get far. Unless you luck up and someone of some major importance notices your value and makes it known to the entire world. Really, what are the chances of that happening for the average Joe? (not the plumber) :-)

        There isn't much chance.




        Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

        Allen - how do you build an authority site without giving your audience some value?

        I agree - the system is important, but if I look at the authority sites in major markets I see strong value being added, the value might be...

        1. Researched, one-stop shop for content
        2. Training, multimedia
        3. Product reviews (value being applied use of product someone is considering buying)
        And so on...

        You mentioned your use of affiliate programs which certainly was a system - but did that system not depend on having decent quality ebooks in which your affiliates could tag their ID's?

        Granted, when ebooks first came out the quality didn't need to be as high as today - there's so much noise that if today people wanted to use this approach it would have to offer fantastic value.

        Also - your example of a buddy that made millions by matching eyeballs with products - chances are the products he sold were good quality - no? Not only would he have made millions - isn't there also product developers that would have received the other 50% of the wealth by having the product this person promoted?

        Certainly people need to decide if their primary business model will be product related (info products, licensed or drop-shipped goods, services, etc...) or affiliate marketing/JV - then add value to their given target market. In the case of product developers, they may choose to add tremendous value to their affiliates to bring super-affiliates on board wherease the affiliates need to uncover the way to offer their customers value which may be reviews, case studies, a well-organized product catalog, personality....

        Jeff
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        • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
          Understood Allen - there are two aspects here, one is the "perception of value" in your customer's mind which is essential to sell anything (the diet pills that really don't do anything are purchased surely on the belief that they will), and then the experiential value (does the product deliver the experience the customer wants - which too is an issue of perception rather than actual fact).

          Key is to market and deliver the "value" your market perceives as important rather than the value you may feel or know IS important.

          For instance, one of my coaching clients was suffering with a business where he was trying to deliver information he KNEW his customers needed - but only when he reversed his thinking to figuring out what they believe they WANT did his business begin to skyrocket. Still delivering value, just a matter of who's perspective on value he was striving to meet.

          Cheers...

          Jeff

          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          Hi Jeff,

          You definitely "should" provide value in some way. I was trying to make the point that value alone does not and will not ever cut it.

          I also know a millionaire that sells weight loss pills that are about as useless as drinking water to lose weight. No value there at all.

          And honestly, the multi-millionaire I referred to? Also sells products that I personally wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. But even if he sold the best of the best it still doesn't matter - it's his system that really makes him the money.

          The thing I'm getting at is a problem so many people have, they get stuck on value and copy and 10 thousand other things while missing one of the most vital parts of the whole thing - the system. Without it you can have all the value and all the morals possible and you still won't get far. Unless you luck up and someone of some major importance notices your value and makes it known to the entire world. Really, what are the chances of that happening for the average Joe? (not the plumber) :-)

          There isn't much chance.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
            I think many are still missing the point, of course "value" is important.

            Unfortunately, providing "value" often has little to do with earning a fortune.

            Don't agree? Study Walmart... Microsoft...

            Market Position...

            Providing instant gratification is far more effective, and proven.
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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

      So the answer is ignore quality and value - just focus on marketing and you will be wealthy...hmmmm

      Good luck!

      Jeff

      I don't think that's what he's saying Jeff. He's saying something is missing, and he's right. He's just slightly mistaken as to what it is that's missing...
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Andy said
    "This is why sales copy is so important - you can sell a bad product with good copy, but you can't sell a good product with bad copy."

    How true.

    Sadly when you first start our you try to talk "normal" whatever that is. And you quickly see yourself starving; so your stomach starts to grumble and you say "Hell, I gotsa sell!"

    Then you write the most over the top uberhype this side of the universe that sound like a rookie used car dealer with a bad haircut and VOILA! - Sales...
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  • Profile picture of the author TheNightOwl
    @Allen... too funny, my man.

    There's something I positively love about human psychology and that's the way we like to dress up our motivations and rationalise them and make them sound more grandiose because we just can't accept how totally base the vast majority of them actually are.

    (And when I say "base" I don't mean "crude" or "crass" or any other such synonyms. What I mean is primitive and LCD (lowest common denominator)).

    Give 'em what they want.

    THE END.

    This is kinda what I was striving for last night when I responded here and said that the OP had made a valid point and perhaps we were glossing over it. I just couldn't quite articulate or pinpoint what was sitting on the tip of my tongue. That's why my previous post sounded (even to me) a little disjointed and lacking focus.

    So thank you, Allen, for bringing it into extremely sharp focus.

    It's what I was driving at with the bimbo/stud example.

    Most of us eat up drivel and are on an endless quest for shortcuts. The National Enquirer type mags and the National Lottery are unlikely to EVER go broke.

    Value? Nice, I guess. But not necessarily necessary to make money.

    And before anyone goes charging off and responding that the gossip columns are different... I see it in this niche too. A niche where people spend real money. Not just a buck fifty for some crappy magazine, but SERIOUS money.

    I won't name any names, but I groan every time some big name huckster (whoops! I mean marketer... (and no... **groan** I don't think all marketers are hucksters)) releases some "Free Report" that's basically an extended freakin' salesletter for the huge homestudy course or seminar or coaching program or whatever that's coming out soon... and they get 587 gushing comments on their blog saying "Oh wow! Thanks for providing so much value yet again! You really overdeliver. I can't wait until [insert product name] is released. I'm gonna devour it!"

    Or other such sycophantic crap that makes me wanna puke.

    [Note: I have no problem with free reports as a lead-gen device. The point I'm making here is that people are seemingly very happy to eat up stuff of little or no value, but claim (read: delude themselves into believing) that it is. It's interesting, look out for it.]

    This is an example of (as someone has already posted in this thread, I think), people wanting to be sold. It's not the same as the lottery ticket, but it's not too far removed. It's silver bullet stuff.

    People are people. We all have more or less the same primordial hot-buttons and I don't think providing value has jack to do with being wildly successful.

    Actually, now that I'm on fire and on a red-hot rant, it makes me think of my own profession. I won't mention what it is because it's not important. But I could cite so many examples of seeing smiling happy departing clients/customers and I know that the product/service provided them was of questionable value--or at least not up to my own standards.

    [Disclaimer/Self-promo: Not from MY groups! LOL! ]

    "Ah ha!" some will say (actually some in this thread have already said!) "What's important, though, is what the customer perceives as value."

    Uh, yeah. That's the point Allen was making (unless I'm mistaken).

    So... back to Kiev's original point: If people are more than happy to pony up for what is essentially crap (National Enquirer anyone? Diet pills? Anyone seen how outta control the "health and beauty' industry is in Japan regarding the claims they not only make... not only get away with legally... but make a MINT off of?)... and they are--proven fact (How much did the latest pics of some celeb cavorting on a beach in Majorca sell for?--then as Allen points out, why should people give a stuff about value if it's just about making money?

    Sure, plenty of folks are not just in it for the money. I accept that. Fine. If you really want to provide value to people, then that's a good (I'm won't go so far as to say "noble") thing to do.

    Great.

    But the OP's point was that we're told and told and told again to provide value, value, value... when I could (but won't) name several big names right off the top of my head who don't seem to provide much in the way of value at all... yet keep preaching it to everyone else and actually getting paid handsomely to do it! How do ya like them apples?

    Pretty funny stuff, no?

    Providing value is great and I try to do it every opportunity I get. But I do it for other reasons. Probably the same simple reasons that most other folks do: That it gives me a sense of purpose, that it makes me feel good about myself because I'm helping people, etcetera.

    But these things have nothing at all to do with what will put bread on my table. I don't buy the idea that providing value will necessarily lead to my making any moolah.

    I have on site (connected to my area of professional expertise) where I provide plenty of value and I'm lucky if I even get a "Thanks" posted to my blog. Do it in person where people are paying big bucks and they can't thank me enough. Try and make affiliate offers or sell on that site and rebellion. (Yeah, different thread, kinda... and I'm reassessing my strategy on that site. I maintain it because I enjoy it. The point I'm trying to make here is that I provide heaps of value and people are not interested in paying a cent. As i said, barely even a "Thank you". The surveys that I run from time to time would be depressing if they didn't make me laugh at just how selfish and self-absorbed sooooooo many people are and how that aircraft carrier of people I mentioned before seem to think that the world simply owes them stuff.)

    Ask the folks on this forum who do trend-marketing. Find a hot trend, throw up a landing page with some kind of stupid interactive dross related to whatever is today's hot topic ("Click here if you think Britney's head would look better botoxed or exploded and get a $50 discount voucher to Scank's Skincare" )... link it to a PPA (pay-per-action) offer... drive traffic too it by doing the SocialBookmarking Boogie... ka-ching!

    Value my bollocks.

    Rant done.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Nightowl,

      Ask the folks on this forum who do trend-marketing. Find a hot trend, throw up a landing page with some kind of stupid interactive dross related to whatever is today's hot topic ("Click here if you think Britney's head would look better botoxed or exploded and get a $50 discount voucher to Scank's Skincare" )... link it to a PPA (pay-per-action) offer... drive traffic too it by doing the SocialBookmarking Boogie... ka-ching!

      Value my bollocks.
      Thanks for the eloquent and entertaining rant. Especially the conclusion. We need more of this type of stuff to help counterbalance the dross.

      People come here to learn after all, don't they? What's wrong with a little truth? We appear to be in a similar place, you and I. I wonder if they'll let us out soon?

      BTW, I think exploded would be better. Where's my goddam voucher?
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris_King
    I agree....Some of the best products I have purchased are not selling like hot cakes. Then there's Get Google Ads Free, one of the most ridiculous products ever created, and that guy is making bank.

    Granted, his affiliates are doing all the leg work and he has great affiliate resources. But nonetheless, that product is just horrible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    Wow. I love this thread! Surprised by some answer but still like it.
    A lot to think about, a lot to test, and a lot of action to be taken!

    Alex
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    Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
    The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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  • Profile picture of the author Beau
    True... but I do find the problem with a lot of internet markets who market internet marketing products quite really don't give a hoot about the product and only care about the money so you can end up with a piece of crap.

    But your point is a very good one. I know lots of artists who make great music but because it's not marketed properly they go no where.

    Bottom line: if you want people to come back for more then make sure you don't sell them crap.

    :-) B
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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    Alex,

    Sorry to hear about your frustration. We all go through the same at some point or another. Listen to this carefully and you will go a long way.

    The amount of money you make in internet marketing does not solely rely on the quality of the product. Success comes from the way you market your product. Therefore, I would suggest that you learn all you can about marketing and promoting your product.

    I have seen products promoted so wonderfully that sales just flourish and the product being promoted was something my 3 year old niece could do. As soon as I learned the art of marketing, sales started pouring in like crazy.

    Your product doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be "good enough." The impression I get from you is that you have already prided yourself with a quality product. Now... go out, learn from the best marketers and promote your product like crazy!!!

    Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Gary Bencivenga is one of the greatest living copywriters. This is what he has to say in regards to product value and copywriting skills...

      A gifted product is mightier than a gifted pen.

      Couple that with what Gary Halbert said is the one advantage he would want if he were competing with you...

      A starving crowd

      and you've got a great formula. The problem lots of people run into is that their "crowd" has a low population.

      It doesn't matter whether or not you have the world's best cheeseburgers if only 10 people are starving. And conversely, you can have an average burger and sell the crap out of them if 1,000,000 people are starving. As long as the product adequately pacifies the problem, it doesn't have to be the highest value.

      I guess my point is this...when focusing on the "value" of your products/services, who's problem are you addressing? Your own (ego) or your prospect's (desired solution)?

      Know what solutions your prospects desire and deliver them. If your solution is higher quality, it better pass the WIIFM test or the extra value above and beyond that necessary to solve the prospect's problem is wasted energy. You could have put that extra effort into getting in front of more prospects. The solutions you offer aren't about you and making you feel good...they're about providing what the market wants.
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      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        I guess my point is this...when focusing on the "value" of your products/services, who's problem are you addressing? Your own (ego) or your prospect's (desired solution)?
        Lance, you just hit one of my biggest challenges right smack on the head.

        All through my school years (at least through high school), I ran with the 'brainiac' crowd. We competed for grades, credit, recognition. One of our history teachers threatened to put a weight limit on our term papers...

        When you transition to the commercial world, learning to quit when a product is 'good enough' can be tough. That urge to show off and indulge in the intellectual equivalent of "hey, y'all, watch this" is strong. It's pure rush for the ego...

        And it's a bad idea, for both marketer and buyer.

        For the marketer, it's wasted energy. Energy that could be directed to more profitable pursuits.

        For the buyer, adding too much beyond simply solving the problem the producer promised to solve often creates the confusion and overwhelm we see so many people fall victim to. This realization is what is finally getting me to accept that "close enough is good enough" and send things I know I could make 'better' into the market...
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Lance, you just hit one of my biggest challenges right smack on the head.

          All through my school years (at least through high school), I ran with the 'brainiac' crowd. We competed for grades, credit, recognition. One of our history teachers threatened to put a weight limit on our term papers...

          When you transition to the commercial world, learning to quit when a product is 'good enough' can be tough. That urge to show off and indulge in the intellectual equivalent of "hey, y'all, watch this" is strong. It's pure rush for the ego...

          And it's a bad idea, for both marketer and buyer.

          For the marketer, it's wasted energy. Energy that could be directed to more profitable pursuits.

          For the buyer, adding too much beyond simply solving the problem the producer promised to solve often creates the confusion and overwhelm we see so many people fall victim to. This realization is what is finally getting me to accept that "close enough is good enough" and send things I know I could make 'better' into the market...
          Another great point and another thing to think about!
          Thank You,

          Alex
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          Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
          The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    I think you just have never created a great product. When you do, all you have to do is get a few people exposed to it and they'll start spreading the word. I've done it a few times, it's actually that simple.

    The WordPress plugin in my sig, for example, has sold over 300 copies in the last two months... over $35,000 in profit with less than $1000 in paid advertising (WSOs and sponsored reviews on blogs) to get the word out to start it all. I wrote a post about it in the War Room here.

    Now all the sales come from referrals, affiliates, forum posts about it, blog posts (not paid) about it... people that buy it are talking about it because it's a quality product that solves their problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    I actually disagree entirely.

    If your product is THAT good, it will generate its' own viral buzz. Then affiliates will pick up on it and experience good conversions due to the presell and the masses of testominials from the inevitable happy customers.

    Then, as more affiliates promote it and more people buy, the bigger the viral buzz gets.

    This cycle continues right up until the Guru raises his eybrow, stands tall from his golden thrown, walks out of his meditation hut on the top of Mount Ooobiggoo and declares a JV with you, his minion.

    Lol, jokes aside, can you see why great content is so powerful? You can't carry momentum with a shi''y product, but with a good product you can attract a snowballing word of mouth buzz.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      I actually disagree entirely.

      If your product is THAT good, it will generate its' own viral buzz. Then affiliates will pick up on it and experience good conversions due to the presell and the masses of testominials from the inevitable happy customers.

      Then, as more affiliates promote it and more people buy, the bigger the viral buzz gets.

      This cycle continues right up until the Guru raises his eybrow, stands tall from his golden thrown, walks out of his meditation hut on the top of Mount Ooobiggoo and declares a JV with you, his minion.

      Lol, jokes aside, can you see why great content is so powerful? You can't carry momentum with a shi''y product, but with a good product you can attract a snowballing word of mouth buzz.

      Nick, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree. I have one of the greatest
      mid level products for marketers that I think has ever been made and
      nobody rushing to sell it for me. I make all my sales on my own. And granted,
      while my sales are good and the people who buy it write back to me to tell
      me what a great product it is, especially for the money, none of them are
      rushing out to sell it.

      Hell, I even recently ran an affiliate contest that I sent out to a list of
      5,000 people offering 3 top prizes for the best affiliates selling this thing and
      I got all of 8 people interested. And a lot of these people HAVE the product,
      love it and STILL won't promote it.

      And the commission is a more than generous 70% on a $97 product.

      So again, I have to respectfully disagree.

      It doesn't always work that way.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Nick, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree. I have one of the greatest
        mid level products for marketers that I think has ever been made and
        nobody rushing to sell it for me.
        Your product isn't good enough or you wouldn't see such a level of disinterest. If people really had a burning need for whatever it does for them, they'd not only love it but tell everyone else about it. This isn't something you can disprove by calling your own product the greatest, you need other people to be calling it the greatest.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

          Your product isn't good enough or you wouldn't see such a level of disinterest. If people really had a burning need for whatever it does for them, they'd not only love it but tell everyone else about it. This isn't something you can disprove by calling your own product the greatest, you need other people to be calling it the greatest.
          Dan, the people who buy my product tell me it's great. Are you saying they're
          lying?

          And I know what's out there and I know the value I give and you can say
          my product isn't great all you want. It won't change my feelings or those
          of the customers who bought it and raved about it.

          Not even knowing what it is, how can you even come to such conclusions?

          Oh, I'm sorry...kinder and gentler me.

          Know what? Think what you want. I couldn't care less.

          I know the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    Recommended reading:
    Amazon.com: Relevance: Making Stuff That Matters:...Amazon.com: Relevance: Making Stuff That Matters:...
    Create products people need, rather than try to make them need the product you create.
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    Improvely: Built to track, test and optimize your marketing.

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

    Many Warriors keep on saying that if your product is of great quality and value and truly helps people to solve their problem - then you'll make lots of money out of it!

    That's total B.S. I tell you. If you do offer such product - it only means you'll get fewer refunds, may be even no refunds at all but you will not necessairly make money... unless you are a GREAT marketer who can rank #1 out out 1,000,000,000 results on Google, or if you somehow succeed to hook up with the known boys, like Filsame, Kern, Silver... who will promote it to their 1,000,000 lists.

    Some of the GREATEST info products I ever purchased were only selling a few copies a month... at $30-$60...

    AMAZING Content is not enough... Please stop saying it is.

    My frustrated rant for the day.

    Alex
    I disagree. People will buy something on 'percieved' value, and the better that percieved value the more they will comeback to buy again.

    For instance, say you are selling a pocket knife (as an example) To you, that pocket knife is worth $1. You sell it for $2. Its junk to you, but to the guy that has a knot in his shoelace and he's late for a job interview and cant get his shoes tied, that knife is worth a million bucks. And you just sold it to him for $2!!!! Its percieved value. Always give someone more than what they ask for, thats a standard train of thought in just about any sales transcript.
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