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Why do long sales letters still work?

by ChrisGuthrie
46 replies
I've been doing some testing recently and I'm still surprised to see that the long form sales letters continue to work. What do you think causes them to work even when they appear so spammy / fake? I hate to use them but they continue to work so why not?

I'd be interested in seeing if any psychologists have ever done any studies on the subject.

Why do you think they still work?
#letters #long #sales #work
  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    Originally Posted by ChrisGuthrie View Post

    I've been doing some testing recently and I'm still surprised to see that the long form sales letters continue to work. What do you think causes them to work even when they appear so spammy / fake? I hate to use them but they continue to work so why not?

    I'd be interested in seeing if any psychologists have ever done any studies on the subject.

    Why do you think they still work?
    Because the effectively address as many possible issues or questions that a potential customer may have?
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Before the "I hate them" / "I love them" posts start, rather than analyze it too deeply, I'll say that I personally like long salesletters because I want to read as much as possible about a product I'm considering buying. For me, it's not any deeper than that.

    I've tried them all and long salesletters pull more sales than any other type I've tried.

    By a country mile.

    Cheers,

    Neil
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

      Before the "I hate them" / "I love them" posts start, rather than analyze it too deeply, I'll say that I personally like long salesletters because I want to read as much as possible about a product I'm considering buying. For me, it's not any deeper than that.

      I've tried them all and long salesletters pull more sales than any other type I've tried.

      By a country mile.

      Cheers,

      Neil
      More than video?...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    I think there's a huge number of people who still prefer text over video and they also need to find out as much as they can about a product before they purchase.

    Long text salesletters let them do just that
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    • Profile picture of the author Bongoshaq1
      There are many morons who study late at night alone and these long sales letters get them involved emotionally.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Do you think a long sales letter would be more effective than the current 'presentation' technique of fatburningfurnace and thedietsolutionprogram?
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    • Profile picture of the author Qaisar
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Do you think a long sales letter would be more effective than the current 'presentation' technique of fatburningfurnace and thedietsolutionprogram?
      If done properly I would say on average a video presentation of the same content would outperform the sales letter, although you would have to test both in each case.

      I think its because its bringing that personal element of a face to face sale closer. You have to remember that broadband is a fairly new introduction and so before it took forever for videos to download. Also before the internet long sales letters were and still are used in direct mail.

      But good video sales letters still follow the structure of a good long sales letter so the content isnt really changing, just the media in which it is conveyed. So as mentioned the more information you can get across to the potential customer the better and until recently long sales letters were the only way to do this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Do you think a long sales letter would be more effective than the current 'presentation' technique of fatburningfurnace and thedietsolutionprogram?
      They used to have long copy and switched, I know it hugely increased
      conversions on fat burning furnace.

      Same for Every other day diet, and truth about abs.

      Truth about abs conversions almost doubled when Mike moved to video.

      Personally I can't stand the videos, I just want to be able to read what's
      what quickly , but that's the whole point, the videos force customers who
      are interested in the "secret" at the end to to slow down and get the whole
      message before they leave.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    I agree with Mohammad.

    It's important to think like your customer, not as someone who has seen more long salesletters than hot dinners.

    Years and years ago when I was considering buying something online, I LOVED printing out dozens of pages of sales copy about the product, sitting down with a cool drink and going through it in detail. The longer the better.

    If I liked what I read, and the copy itself is clearly vital, then I'd happily buy.

    Ah, those were the days
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    What I've found is that it depends on a couple of things whether the long letter style or the actual website style works better... and now there's the video style and also the ajax style...

    - Consumer Demographic
    - Single Digital Product, Single Physical Product, Product Series or Service

    Those factors combined seem to determine which style does best.

    So, I can see long letter style pages still working where they're gonna work; meaning, they're not going to work in every scenario. It seems they work best for Single Products, (digital or physical -- leaning towards digital), where you want the Prospect concentrating only on that page as the copy guides them to the sale button; no distractions.

    IMHO, as well as what I've been taught and seen from the professional copywriters I know.

    PLP,
    tecHead
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      As has already been said normally long sales letters address more problems from the customer that the short ones...that might be the main reason..
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      • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        As has already been said normally long sales letters address more problems from the customer that the short ones...that might be the main reason..
        I'm curious to start testing Ryan Deiss's video sales technique.
        Once I finish my product completely, I'll put it to the test against a long
        form sales letter. I paid $197.00 for it, and my mic just wen to the crapper haha. So I bought one from Skype, and am currently waiting for it in the mail :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
    I think the reason for it being so long IN MY OPINION, is because they are trying to overcome all of the objections the potential consumer "might" have.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Clark
      To the OP:

      There are two reasons for long sales letters. The first one is this. When a surfer takes the time to read the whole sales letter you are testing his or her patience. To explain it a little further. The purpose of the direct response business is solving a problem right away.

      A good example: would be a piece of software that would allow you to post 100 classified ads a day. Keep in mind, that if you are during it by hand and the software would save you lots of time. (You can download the software)

      In addition, the learning curve to use it would be about 30 minutes. Now, any marketer with a little common sense would invest 30 minutes and a small amount of money to save that much time. If not then I think his or her elevator may be skipping some stops.

      The second reason is sexy. If you are married and the only time you tell your wife that you love her is on her wedding day, then you are in for a rough ride. People are not rational. In the sales letter you have to tell them three times that this is going to make their life easier and save them time.

      If you look and read carefully you can see the good copywriters are doing that in the sales letter. Clearly, they may use a video and combination of words for the accomplishment. I hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amy Carczak
    Listen to the radio, TV ads .. then
    read the magazine ads, internet ads
    etc, and you'll see they all use the
    same buzz words i.e. FREE, guaranteed
    step by step, etc.

    It has nothing to do with how long
    something is used, it has to do with
    it working or not working.

    If it keeps working ... keep doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    It kind of works like this.

    On a short sales letter, you spend less time talking to your prospect before he makes a decision. On a long one, you spend more.

    In the long page, you may talk too much. But when the prospect has heard enough, he can click the "buy now" button and go buy it.

    In the short page, you may not talk enough. And when the prospect hasn't heard enough, he doesn't click squat.

    However, if you're a really crappy copywriter, and your sales copy actually makes people want your product less... a short page will test better.
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  • Profile picture of the author da1fitz
    Not sure bout good copy or cr@p copy but from personnal experience, you either get my attention within 5 seconds, or you get another page bounce. If you grab my attention initially, then the chances of my buying your product just tripled, and why do I know this - cause I'm me, I've prob been your typical customer for the past few years, so I know
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  • Profile picture of the author Mao Flynn
    I think the best description I have heard for the ideal length of a sales letter is this.... "A sales letter should be like a woman's skirt, long enough to cover the subject, yet short enough to maintain interest' :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisGuthrie
      I posted this thread and then forgot I would be away from my computer for a while with no way to respond so I'm sorry for abandoning lol.

      Anyway

      I would love to actually take this a step further and I think I might actually email a couple of my old college professors to see what they think.

      I believe that most well versed and intelligent internet marketers don't like sales letters because all they see is the crap tossed up to convince people that aren't used to sales letters that they can't live without the product.

      It's a shame that this is really the best way to sell digital goods or training material because I'd like to believe the very best products and training can stand alone, but this isn't really the case.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by ChrisGuthrie View Post

        It's a shame that this is really the best way to sell digital goods or training material because I'd like to believe the very best products and training can stand alone, but this isn't really the case.
        There's a choice you need to make.

        Do you want your customers to be stupid people who will buy any damn thing?

        No matter what you do, some of them will be. That's just the nature of things.

        But are you actively trying to attract and capture them as customers?

        When you really factor it in and look at the reality of what this is, it comes down to one thing.

        Are you comfortable letting stupid people flounder and fail with your product, because it is more time and trouble than it is worth to support them?

        Regardless of how hard you try to support these people, one basic reality is unchanged: they will want more support than the profit they generate is worth. So you're going to have to cut some of them loose, and just let them fall off the turnip truck.

        If that's not how you want to do business, then you have to live without the sales and income the stupid people generate... but you also don't have to put all that crap in your sales letters.

        The choice is really yours.
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        • Profile picture of the author ChrisGuthrie
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          There's a choice you need to make.

          Do you want your customers to be stupid people who will buy any damn thing?

          No matter what you do, some of them will be. That's just the nature of things.

          But are you actively trying to attract and capture them as customers?

          When you really factor it in and look at the reality of what this is, it comes down to one thing.

          Are you comfortable letting stupid people flounder and fail with your product, because it is more time and trouble than it is worth to support them?

          Regardless of how hard you try to support these people, one basic reality is unchanged: they will want more support than the profit they generate is worth. So you're going to have to cut some of them loose, and just let them fall off the turnip truck.

          If that's not how you want to do business, then you have to live without the sales and income the stupid people generate... but you also don't have to put all that crap in your sales letters.

          The choice is really yours.
          Good points. I believe if I build a large enough following on my blog (currently at 1,500 readers after just only 5 months) then I believe it's entirely possible to sell without the long form sales letter.

          In fact, I think I may just try video anyway instead... we shall see.
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          • Profile picture of the author netkid
            Actually, the question you are asking is, do sales letters still work for IM products? If you go outside the IM niche, you find more short and to the point sales letters that are usually medium to short. I've seen it work in the health niche, the fishing niche, some sports niches.

            Think in more broader terms and I would suggest you make some non IM sites just to get the feel for what works and what not works in other niches. I'm into 4 completely unrelated niches and I can test what works and doesn't regarding the length.
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            • Profile picture of the author ChrisGuthrie
              Originally Posted by netkid View Post

              Actually, the question you are asking is, do sales letters still work for IM products? If you go outside the IM niche, you find more short and to the point sales letters that are usually medium to short. I've seen it work in the health niche, the fishing niche, some sports niches.

              Think in more broader terms and I would suggest you make some non IM sites just to get the feel for what works and what not works in other niches. I'm into 4 completely unrelated niches and I can test what works and doesn't regarding the length.
              Good points. Perhaps they've just lost their luster in IM? (speaking from a consumer standpoint)
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    • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
      Originally Posted by Mao Flynn View Post

      I think the best description I have heard for the ideal length of a sales letter is this.... "A sales letter should be like a woman's skirt, long enough to cover the subject, yet short enough to maintain interest' :-)
      Great quote!

      Also, I think price has something to do with it. If you are selling a low cost item, you don't need to spend pages trying to convince people to buy. A short letter with a good headline, simply stating the benefits and asking for the order can be very effective.

      Will
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      • Profile picture of the author Arun Pal Singh
        Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

        Great quote!

        Also, I think price has something to do with it. If you are selling a low cost item, you don't need to spend pages trying to convince people to buy. A short letter with a good headline, simply stating the benefits and asking for the order can be very effective.

        Will
        I agree Will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wechito
    Chris, I also hate long sales letters. I never read them, but I use them. I do it because I have proven that they work better than short ones. I, as many people here, think it is because most of the people (but not me) feel more secure about buying something if the vendor have wrote a long copy where all his potential questions are answered.
    I, however, just want to know what exactly are they selling me, meaning a description of the product and all its components. I don't care about testimonial or the live of the guy who created the product, or whatever. But it seems that many people do.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Long sales letters work but it doesn't always mean they are the best choice. Today you would be mad if you didn't at least test a text v's a video sales letter. Different audiences want to consume information in different ways. Each market to their own. This is no longer an across the board thing - each market will be different.
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    • Profile picture of the author netkid
      @ChrisGuthrie, Yeah I think we see so many sales letters in IM, they often are just a blur! When I see a sales letter in another niche, it's actually refreshing to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizfox
        A well written and well thought sales letter will get better responses because of the effort put into it. Readers will give it more attention because of the quality.

        If it's a long sales letter full of crap, i press delete after the first the first few sentences.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        There's no doubt about it. Too many IMers just assume that EVERYONE is sick of seeing long sales letters because they are. You need to remember that those outside of the IM circle are not looking at sales letters every day of the week like we are.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tygrupe
        I'm going to say, based on my current PPC campaign, that your keywords within the same niche for the same product on how someone got to your offer will determine if a video or long form sales letter converts better. I used the same ads, changed the video and long form landing page and have yet to get enough results to see which one is working better.

        The long form gives enough space to go through the whole process of Attention/Interest/Desire/Close which is the proven formula. The short form may not provide the same "psychological path" to lead the customer down and skimp on the know/like/trust from which they'll buy.

        I think the long form probably works best on say software or more in depth IM products while a the short form may work better on niches with more immediate commercial intent in the keywords, like "internet marketing book" rather than "internet marketing info"
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
    Well anyone who does not like LONG salesletter.... is not your prospective buyer at the most of the time.

    Really I too wonder,,that who will read this long letter... I will not read that...then my second question to myself is...am i interested to buy this.. no i am not ....then my opinion
    does not MATTER!!!

    As i see if i am interested in something to buy.. I am going to read every bit of the
    salesletter... I am going to search the internet to find more about that company,
    that product , that owner...and then i will even try to read more and more...
    then i will buy that .... so you see....

    Always ask this...anyone telling you that THEY WILL NOT READ that long salesletter
    is not someone who is actually interested in that Niche...not your prospective buyer!!!
    so do not focus on what they think or say...

    Truth is if i am not interested in Photoraphy, i cannot read one page about that topic,
    how will i read that long salesletter...again it is because i am not already prospective buyer in that Niche... so anyone making site about that niche should not listen my opinion...

    It is your buyer and prospective buyer only who's opinion matters...and
    it is fact that anyone considering to buy anything is going to digest anything
    they can read about that..so they know they are not going to make stupid purchase..
    They do not want to pay blindly they want as much as validation you can provide...
    so take your time to touch every issue or concern they may have....

    Just for the record I too do not like those LONG salesletters...
    but if the salesletter would be short would i buy...not at all ...
    someone who is not interested in that Niche/topic is not going to buy anyway..
    so why worry what think about your multi-page sales letter...

    Regards,
    Mohsin
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  • Profile picture of the author MassiveMarketer
    I think just as long as you keep your sales letter interesting and make them stick their attention to it is good enough. They won't be reading letters like those everyday so it won't get them bored easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    For a lot of people long sales letters = some scam product and they never read them.

    But for a lot of people long sales letters work and they not only read them but buy the product.

    Usually, the type of product you're selling with a long sales letter is the sort of product people who do read long sales letters tend to buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zentech
    As a professional copywriter, my opinion is that long-form letters still work because they still engage people. If your copy is well-written and powerful, it will keep people reading. The longer they read, the more involved and emotionally invested they get. This is no mystery. It's been the case since time immemorial and will always be the case.
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  • Profile picture of the author Deepak Media
    I say it works. Don't question it. Because it work for you too when you apply it. Don't make assumptions.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    Because for me, long sales letters have already imparted its meat to its subscribers. It's long but with compelling approach, I don't think you would have to skip every detail.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arun Pal Singh
    Long letters are so boring. I often quit because of sheer exhaustion. Plus long letters have more drama as compared to shorter ones. That might work but I like plain talk better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gemini9
    Content is key, hence long sales letters still work.

    If you grab the readers attention within the first couple of lines, get straight to the point(s), respond comprehensively to buyers' needs, and keep it interesting all through, a long sales letter can be very effective.

    That said, I find that visuals (videos, photos, diagrams) really help to retain the reader's interest, particularly you have to write a long sales letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author charlyms21
    I have few doubts regarding creating long sales letter type sites with word press.
    Which wordpress themes do you use so that the bloggy style wont come in the site layout and it looks like a professional landing page?
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    For all of you who say that long text sales pages work: have you noticed the latest trend on Internet Marketing gurus basing their ENTIRE launch on 4 videos using the Kajabi platform? there's absolutely no text on those sales funnels: just 4 lengthy videos displayed in a sequential manner, and on launch day you're redirected to a video sales page.

    Frank Kern with List Control, Andy Jenkins with Video Boss, John Reese with Outsource Force, Mike Koenigs with Main Street Business and now Jeff Walker with Product Launch 3.0. ALL of them have moved for the typical 4 pre-launch videos + video sales page formula.

    If long sales pages worked so well, why do gurus (the people who've split tested it all to oblivion because they have the traffic and knowledge to do it) still sell their major blockbusters through videos and not text?

    I am a firm believer in copying what the benchmark does (there's a good reason as of why they're the benchmark!). And it's been a while they've all moved to video.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      For all of you who say that long text sales pages work: have you noticed the latest trend on Internet Marketing gurus basing their ENTIRE launch on 4 videos using the Kajabi platform? there's absolutely no text on those sales funnels: just 4 lengthy videos displayed in a sequential manner, and on launch day you're redirected to a video sales page.

      Frank Kern with List Control, Andy Jenkins with Video Boss, John Reese with Outsource Force, Mike Koenigs with Main Street Business and now Jeff Walker with Product Launch 3.0. ALL of them have moved for the typical 4 pre-launch videos + video sales page formula.

      If long sales pages worked so well, why do gurus (the people who've split tested it all to oblivion because they have the traffic and knowledge to do it) still sell their major blockbusters through videos and not text?

      I am a firm believer in copying what the benchmark does (there's a good reason as of why they're the benchmark!). And it's been a while they've all moved to video.
      A couple of reasons actually.

      1) They rely on massive traffic, usually from affiliates, on launch day. I'm talking one million+ unique visitors hitting their site typically. Most marketers don't have that type of affiliate network or list of their own to get that many people at once to their site.

      2) They're trying to be cutting edge and try new things or things that a marketing friend has done on their own recent launch.

      3) They are still using a copywriting-based video script for their videos. If you don't believe me, then take the audio from one of the videos and have it transcribed.

      Unless you are testing your own marketing, you won't know if someone else's benchmark is producing maximum results for you or not. Not every niche's targeted prospects have the same characteristics as the IM niche.

      Take care,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by ChrisGuthrie View Post

    I've been doing some testing recently and I'm still surprised to see that the long form sales letters continue to work. What do you think causes them to work even when they appear so spammy / fake? I hate to use them but they continue to work so why not?
    You are not your target market. What appeals to your target market is different than what appeals to you as the product owner and seller.

    I'd be interested in seeing if any psychologists have ever done any studies on the subject.

    Why do you think they still work?
    Maybe Cialdini did but most psychologists don't give a fig about sales tactics or techniques.

    Plenty of marketers have tested it both offline and online... all of them found long copy typically converts better, unless the letter was written too long and BORED the reader.

    The more parts of the product you have to talk about (i.e. 10 page ebook vs. 10 DVD home study course), the more copy you're going to need to sell it. The higher the price point, the more copy you're probably going to need to sell it.

    Case in point, I once wrote a 29 page one-time offer as part of a client's copywriting project. I needed that many pages to describe everything in the OTO and address all of the potential objections that the reader might have.

    Of course, when the OTO pulled a 27% response rate on launch day, my client didn't care how many pages it was.

    As for video... take the video sales letter and get it transcribed. You'll be surprised that many of them are 10+ pages of transcribed text which as you read... reads like a long copy salesletter.

    Take care,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author BBBB
    they work and will work for as long as it appeals to someone's self interest. They worked 40 years ago and they still work.
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      • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
        Originally Posted by VladDanciu View Post

        Hey guys,

        I am gonna release soon a product just for the warriors not to the public.
        It's a Wordpress Product that turns your wp blog into a launch platform, it's kind of a Kajabi clone.
        The admin will be able to set a squeeze page, prelaunch pages, prelaunch dates to decide when each prelaunch content will go live, launch dates to decide when the launch will be on and at this point the prelaunch content will be gone, launch closing date and many extra features. Also the admin will be able to select from different styles for his pages and a lot of cool features.
        It's gonna be launched here on the warrior forum in the wso section in a few days so keep your eyes on wso.
        I wanted to discuss with you guys about this product and if you would buy something like this and for how much
        Fill free to write me on private also or on my email address softweo@gmail.com

        Regards,
        Vlad Danciu
        I would be VERY cautious about pre-selling a WSO, especially on the main forum. Please, read over the rules of this forum.
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