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The 10,000-Hour Rule vs. The 4-Hour Work Week

by John Rogers
60 replies
In Outliers: The Story of Success, Malcolm Gladwell talks repeatedly about the "10,000-Hour Rule", based on a study by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson, one of the world's leading theoretical and experimental researchers on expertise. The premise of the 10,000-Hour Rule is that achieving greatness requires an enormous investment of time; specifically, about 10,000 hours. Gladwell says that the key to success in any field is practicing a specific task for that amount of time, which can be broken down into 20 hours a week for 10 years, 40 hours a week for 5 years, etc.

In terms of making money, you could apply the 10,000-Hour Rule to your passion, be it art, music, a skilled trade, whatever, and be good enough at it to earn your living doing what you love. You achieve happiness through your chosen vocation.

In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy. Focus on tasks that produce the most benefit (eliminate ones that waste your time), build a sustainable automatic source of income, and you can boil your work week down to a few hours, leaving the rest of your time for you to enjoy as you please.

Instead of investing your time into your vocation which is your source of happiness, you minimize the time you spend on your vocation and achieve happiness from your leisure.

These are two very different approaches to very similar results. Income and happiness. I believe that following either would result in success for anyone who dedicated themselves to the process.

John
#10000 hour rule #4 hour work week #4hour #hour #outliers #rule #tim ferriss #week #work
  • Profile picture of the author tradermike2008
    You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
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    • Profile picture of the author ErnieB
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      The business requires more than 4 hrs a week, but you OUTSOURCE so you personal only spend 4 hrs.
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    • Profile picture of the author T2007
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      Couldn't agree more!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Ranger
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      Have you even read the book?

      It isn't exactly about building a business on 4 hours a week - it's about outsourcing as much as possible in an existing business so that you don't have to do as much - and 'systems' - if you can master 'systems' you can work less than 4 hours a week (also read 'Work the system' by Sam Carpenter).

      Tim wanted to call it 'The 2 Hour Work Week' but the publishers declined saying it was a little unbelievable :p
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      As far as I understand, the "4 hours a week of work", are essentially for maintenance of the systems you have established....not to actually build the entire system.
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      • Profile picture of the author gixxer
        Correct! It's about leaving behind a perpetual 80 hour work week...

        gixxer

        Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

        As far as I understand, the "4 hours a week of work", are essentially for maintenance of the systems you have established....not to actually build the entire system.
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    • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      You can build a business on nothing providing you pay some one else to do the work!
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    • Profile picture of the author kiopa
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      Agreed. I bet the book sells quite a few copies though. :-)

      I'm not a marketer myself, but am the technical lead behind some pretty successful marketers. There's zero chance any of them could cut their work week down to 4 hours. They spend at least that a week just on me, consultations, project specs, etc. Let alone everything else they have to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author reynoldscorb
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      But... You could build a successful micro niche blog that brings in $500 a month in 3 hours!
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    • Profile picture of the author DylanC
      Originally Posted by tradermike2008 View Post

      You are not going to build a successul business on 4 hours of week of work. That's a joke.
      I believe the idea is to put in the work upfront and then only spend 4 hours per week to maintain the operations of the business after it has become successful. This is done by employing people to continue operating the business.

      The book is actually a very good read
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        I was completely unimpressed with the "4-Hour Work Week". The title is the reason for its success and obviously written by a good copywriter. It appeals to all the lazy slobs who want something for nothing; which is a good market, especially in these parts.

        If you want to read a book with some good advice and a plan to get there (though its a bit long at times), read "The Millionaire Fastlane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Lifetime."

        My personal beliefs about success align with those of Frank Kern, as discussed on the I Love Marketing blog with Joe Polish:

        Joe: That's actually a really good point. How do you work? How do you spend your time?

        When you go and write, do you have a schedule, do you have rituals that you do? How is Frank Kern productive?

        Most people, we're joking around all the time and stuff, but a lot of people think you probably spend your time just dicking around all day and surfing and all of that, but you actually get a lot of stuff done. How are you productive?

        Frank: That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. "A lot of people think you spend your time dicking around all day." Well, I have some crayons and a napkin.

        Joe: Well, you do. I actually know you do, but I'm going to try to get you to eek out some useful productivity advice here.

        Frank: I actually work like a dog from hell. Really. I work all the time. I like it. When I don't work, I'll not work for extended periods of time, and really pack in a lot of dicking around during those periods.

        Dean: He banks it.

        Frank: I do. I've been on a 6 weeks of hard work binge. And usually what will happen is I'll be dicking around, and eventually that will get old, and I'll come up with an evil scheme. Usually, the evil scheme is a result of me wanting to achieve something, and
        that's always the scheme is concocted as a result of reverse-engineering, back from the
        desired thing that I want to have or experience or lifestyle or whatever.

        So then, I'll get the evil scheme, and I'll think about it forever, and then finally, it's really more like a hummingbird coming out of a cocoon. The cocoon opens, and then I just work like a freak in this mad dash of productivity and not sleeping and not eating and being Howard Hughes-like, basically. Then, the project is complete, and I'll go back to dicking around again.
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlePrince
    I think that one leads into another. After 10,000 hours, you can outsource and delegate as much of it as possible. Also, keep in mind that Feriss has admitted several times that he works 'ten 4 hour workweeks' a week, so... I don't know how much truth there is to work only 4 hours a week. 10 I could see, but who knows
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    • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
      Originally Posted by ArticlePrince View Post

      I think that one leads into another. After 10,000 hours, you can outsource and delegate as much of it as possible.
      You're missing my point. If you invested 10,000 hours in becoming good enough at what you love to earn a living doing it, why would you outsource or delegate it?

      Also, keep in mind that Feriss has admitted several times that he works 'ten 4 hour workweeks' a week, so... I don't know how much truth there is to work only 4 hours a week. 10 I could see, but who knows
      I agree that 4 hours a week is a lofty goal and probably not achievable by many (if any), but the concepts are sound.

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
        Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post

        You're missing my point. If you invested 10,000 hours in becoming good enough at what you love to earn a living doing it, why would you outsource or delegate it?


        I agree that 4 hours a week is a lofty goal and probably not achievable by many (if any), but the concepts are sound.

        John
        Thanks for this post, John...makes me thing of things in a totally new way!
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        • Profile picture of the author gixxer
          I read part of "The 4-hour Work Week" years ago and completely disagreed with Ferriss' ideas and motivation. I felt (and feel) that passion and love for what you do is the most important factor in success and happiness.

          Last week, I read the entire book cover to cover and was completely inspired, made several major shifts in my thinking - epiphanies really - and decided Ferriss is a genius.

          What happened? Why the shift in perception?

          I read the book for the second time the day after quitting a high stress, high hour job. It was internet based and I was working from home, but I was still chained to a desk and stuck in my house on the phone all day. If I wasn't on the phone I wasn't making money.

          One of my takeaways from Ferriss is how futile it is to create a business where you must be constantly present and working to be making money. If you read the book very carefully, you'll probably agree that he's not really talking about NOT working or being lazy, he's talking about short bursts of hard work that create things that make money in an automated way so you can then leave them to make money while you enjoy your life.

          In one place, he says he currently looks to take about one month of vacation for every two months of work. That sounds right to me.

          I'm the first one to say that when I'm working and enjoying what I'm doing I don't want to stop. The big problem I run into is when I HAVE to keep working - usually on someone else's schedule - and have to make the decision to keep working past exhaustion and enthusiasm so I can keep my income. Much better, I think, to engage in bursts of stimulating and interesting work that THEN pay you back when you stop.

          Last year, I was working as a fitness coach full time. I loved it and valued the experience, but if I wasn't coaching I wasn't making money. Sick, tired, bored, other things I'm interested in - none of that mattered. If I wasn't coaching I wasn't making money. AND there was the matter of all the customer service that was involved with serving the clients outside of coaching.

          Ferriss has probably spent MORE than 10,000 hours perfecting HIS craft - creating income streams that make money when he's off doing things he really wants to be doing! I also suspect that he loves what he does overall. He's just smart about making things sustainable without his constant involvement.

          Also, and some of you might also have this trait, I find that I can work hard and focus for good hard bursts but that my enthusiasm starts to die off as the learning curve flattens out or as I get bored in general. Making sure to create things that generate income once completed insures I can capitalize on my work style that seems to happen whether I want it to or not!

          His one recommendation about handling email - only checking infrequently - was life-changing in itself. Without checking email constantly I'm 100 times more productive. In a 40 hour work week we probably waste at least half on things that really don't matter....

          gixxer
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          • Profile picture of the author Prawn
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
            The 4 Hour Work Week will paint you a vision of what may be possible for you to achieve but the book "Work The System" by Sam Carpenter will spell out exactly what you need to do to make it happen. Unlike Tim, Sam went from working 80 to 100 hours a week to just 2 hours a week and he shows you how he did it and explains what you need to do to duplicate his results. Check Sams blog out at: Work the System ? WTS Methodology

            Here's a quote I took from his site ...

            "The Work the System method is aimed at helping you “get what you want,” without turning your life upside down. The Work the System methodology does not compete with the excellent advice of popular masters of organization/life design such as Michael Gerber, Stephen Covey, David Allen, Anthony Robbins, Timothy Ferriss or Chris Grogan. Instead, “Work” enhances the efficiencies of these or any other personal methodologies. It’s about “getting underneath” the life you live now; to see and then adjust the systems that produce your short and long-term outcomes."
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            • Profile picture of the author gixxer
              Originally Posted by SteveSki View Post

              The 4 Hour Work Week will paint you a vision of what may be possible for you to achieve but the book "Work The System" by Sam Carpenter will spell out exactly what you need to do to make it happen. Unlike Tim, Sam went from working 80 to 100 hours a week to just 2 hours a week and he shows you how he did it and explains what you need to do to duplicate his results. Check Sams blog out at:

              Here's a quote I took from his site ...

              "The Work the System method is aimed at helping you "get what you want," without turning your life upside down. The Work the System methodology does not compete with the excellent advice of popular masters of organization/life design such as Michael Gerber, Stephen Covey, David Allen, Anthony Robbins, Timothy Ferriss or Chris Grogan. Instead, "Work" enhances the efficiencies of these or any other personal methodologies. It's about "getting underneath" the life you live now; to see and then adjust the systems that produce your short and long-term outcomes."

              Thanks for the reference! Going to check the book out right now!

              gixxer
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              • Profile picture of the author gixxer
                I think the NAME of the book is a little misleading - brilliant from a branding standpoint, but it can give the wrong idea.

                Tim is talking about living the lifestyle you want NOW as opposed to:

                slave -> save -> retire

                I think we Type As get hung up on working so hard that we forget why we're working - so we can have the lifestyle we want. I think there is a lot of sense in living how we want NOW rather than forever putting it off until we've accomplished this or that or have enough money, success, etc. I think this mindset can become a trap at times. It certainly has and probably still is for me...

                I haven't "proven" it to myself yet, but I suspect doing more of the things I want to do NOW will make me happier and more productive in the long run as well. I'll have to see about that part..

                gixxer
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                • Profile picture of the author jtmx29
                  Originally Posted by gixxer View Post

                  I think the NAME of the book is a little misleading - brilliant from a branding standpoint, but it can give the wrong idea.

                  Tim is talking about living the lifestyle you want NOW as opposed to:

                  slave -> save -> retire

                  I think we Type As get hung up on working so hard that we forget why we're working - so we can have the lifestyle we want. I think there is a lot of sense in living how we want NOW rather than forever putting it off until we've accomplished this or that or have enough money, success, etc. I think this mindset can become a trap at times. It certainly has and probably still is for me...

                  I haven't "proven" it to myself yet, but I suspect doing more of the things I want to do NOW will make me happier and more productive in the long run as well. I'll have to see about that part..

                  gixxer
                  The title of the book is only misleading if the person purchasing it is someone who doesn't understand to read the back of a book! I knew exactly what I was getting into when I purchased the book.

                  I found that the 4 Hour Work Week was amazing. I knew a lot of the information already from basic knowledge and affiliate marketing. However, Tim's ideas on mini-retirements is just brilliant! The book is definitely worth a read, and to be exact a new version has come out with chapters in it about those who have found success using his structure!
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      • Profile picture of the author MrPete2000
        In Outliers: The Story of Success, Malcolm Gladwell talks repeatedly about the "10,000-Hour Rule", based on a study by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson, one of the world's leading theoretical and experimental researchers on expertise. The premise of the 10,000-Hour Rule is that achieving greatness requires an enormous investment of time; specifically, about 10,000 hours. Gladwell says that the key to success in any field is practicing a specific task for that amount of time, which can be broken down into 20 hours a week for 10 years, 40 hours a week for 5 years, etc.

        In terms of making money, you could apply the 10,000-Hour Rule to your passion, be it art, music, a skilled trade, whatever, and be good enough at it to earn your living doing what you love. You achieve happiness through your chosen vocation.

        In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy. Focus on tasks that produce the most benefit (eliminate ones that waste your time), build a sustainable automatic source of income, and you can boil your work week down to a few hours, leaving the rest of your time for you to enjoy as you please.

        Instead of investing your time into your vocation which is your source of happiness, you minimize the time you spend on your vocation and achieve happiness from your leisure.

        These are two very different approaches to very similar results. Income and happiness. I believe that following either would result in success for anyone who dedicated themselves to the process.
        I agree, if you enjoy what you do then you would probably want to do as much of it as possible; and if you are good at what you do, you will make money.

        4 hours a week might be possible but I'd have to question the sustainability of that approach. Seems like something that's doable but only for short bursts.

        Everything worth doing is going to require time/effort.

        Good post, I think too many people are lured into the dream of money/time for nothing... instead of considering the possibility of finding a vocation that's really worth doing and getting real enjoyment from. The money will follow.

        Pete
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    • Profile picture of the author andreabolder
      I agree with this. It takes an insane amount of effort to build a steady income online 15-20 hours a week minimum. The 4 hour a week thing doesn't work until you have money to leverage. With that said once you establish a steady source of income you can reinvest that income you make back into your business (I typically invest 30% back into marketing) and from there delegate and outsource as necessary to continue growing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg Jeffries
      Originally Posted by ArticlePrince View Post

      I think that one leads into another. After 10,000 hours, you can outsource and delegate as much of it as possible. Also, keep in mind that Feriss has admitted several times that he works 'ten 4 hour workweeks' a week, so... I don't know how much truth there is to work only 4 hours a week. 10 I could see, but who knows

      I agree. I don't believe in many cases you get one without the other. You have to put in the time first, to get to that certain place. Then, if you so choose, you can figure out how to outsource the tasks that aren't directly making you money, whereby freeing up a little more of your most valuable asset, time, to do more of the things you truly enjoy.
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post


    In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy. Focus on tasks that produce the most benefit (eliminate ones that waste your time), build a sustainable automatic source of income, and you can boil your work week down to a few hours, leaving the rest of your time for you to enjoy as you please.

    Running an enterprise, and doing all the tasks of an enterprise are different. By using the right tactics, market research, and positioning, you can leverage the efforts of others who have already put in the requisite 10,000 hours to achieve expertise.

    It's also true that putting in the 10,000 hours will not guarantee success. In a competitive market context: There may be other players who can better apply the expertise for a higher return. Hence there are some areas where expertise is not well rewarded because there are many other competing players who have that expertise too.

    The best chance of success is to achieve expertise in areas which are the most well rewarded and where expertise is difficult to obtain i.e Having the ability to generate profits for your own projects and others. Analyzing markets, thinking creatively and strategically and being willing and able to take action with risks is a major part of this skill set. Rare knowledge rather than much knowledge is better. If you are to spend 10,000 developing skills, it's best to do so in this area. But success is not necessarily guaranteed
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    IMO it all depends on your goals, personally I have very high goals, so the 4 hour work week doesn't really work for me, I do use some of the idea's in it though
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryT
    there is something in the middle that fit most entrepreneur

    Tim Ferries goes overboard, i may think that he hired someone to kiss hi children before they sleep

    it also come down to what are you passionate about

    i am glad to work the extra mile, not to kill my health but because i enjoy the progress as i build my business

    i'm a full time employee until end of June, and started an e-business during my spare time

    now, it generate more income than my regular job
    i also outsource, but not the things that I enjoy doing

    if you don't love to work on your business, you really need to think about what you really want in life, and what you enjoy the most

    and doing it with only 4hours match the "make money online" myth, that you can make it big with little or no efforts

    i find the 20hours week a good balance to reach

    my 2 cents
    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanyG
    I actually just wrote a post on this! The 4 Hour Work Week was a huge inspiration for me.

    Its Not About Having A 4 Hour Work Week! | StartupFreedom.com

    I believe in Tim's values of enjoying life, outsourcing, avoiding information overload, simple is better and so on. However I don't agree with the concept of the 4 Hour Work Week.

    I don't know anyone that has started working 4 hours per week and built a million dollar company (or even a hundred thousand dollar company).

    Maybe after a few years when you have employees and systems in place you can work less hours but not from the beginning!

    PS. Keep this quiet but Tim Ferris actually works a LOT!


    Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post

    In Outliers: The Story of Success, Malcolm Gladwell talks repeatedly about the "10,000-Hour Rule", based on a study by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson, one of the world's leading theoretical and experimental researchers on expertise. The premise of the 10,000-Hour Rule is that achieving greatness requires an enormous investment of time; specifically, about 10,000 hours. Gladwell says that the key to success in any field is practicing a specific task for that amount of time, which can be broken down into 20 hours a week for 10 years, 40 hours a week for 5 years, etc.

    In terms of making money, you could apply the 10,000-Hour Rule to your passion, be it art, music, a skilled trade, whatever, and be good enough at it to earn your living doing what you love. You achieve happiness through your chosen vocation.

    In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy. Focus on tasks that produce the most benefit (eliminate ones that waste your time), build a sustainable automatic source of income, and you can boil your work week down to a few hours, leaving the rest of your time for you to enjoy as you please.

    Instead of investing your time into your vocation which is your source of happiness, you minimize the time you spend on your vocation and achieve happiness from your leisure.

    These are two very different approaches to very similar results. Income and happiness. I believe that following either would result in success for anyone who dedicated themselves to the process.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew M
    Just wanted to say that I loved both books.

    IMHO Malcom grossly over-simplified things...especially with his Canadian junior hockey example early in the book.

    In truth, people need a sort of synergy of both books to succeed: the "10,000 hours" approach to know where to focus and start digging, and the "4 hour work week" approach to learn how to scale up, grow and achieve true autonomy and financial freedom.

    Can you imagine the story of Microsoft without the ability to delegate, automate and scale up? Old Bill might be in the WF posting WSO's!
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
      Originally Posted by Andrew! View Post

      Just wanted to say that I loved both books.

      IMHO Malcom grossly over-simplified things...especially with his Canadian junior hockey example early in the book.

      In truth, people need a sort of synergy of both books to succeed: the "10,000 hours" approach to know where to focus and start digging, and the "4 hour work week" approach to learn how to scale up, grow and achieve true autonomy and financial freedom.

      Can you imagine the story of Microsoft without the ability to delegate, automate and scale up? Old Bill might be in the WF posting WSO's!

      Yes but Bill Gates did log 10k + Hours programming which lead to him writing DOS for IBM
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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        Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

        Yes but Bill Gates did log 10k + Hours programming which lead to him writing DOS for IBM

        Really? I was under the impression Gates purchased QDOS from Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products and sold that to IBM.
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        • Profile picture of the author jtmx29
          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          Really? I was under the impression Gates purchased QDOS from Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products and sold that to IBM.
          You are correct. Gates was simply a smart businessman, he wasn't a scholar programmer of any sort.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul wolfe
    This is an interesting thread.

    Firstly although I know little about the 4 Hour Work Week, from what I do know it seems to be a business system to automate your business so that you have a good level of income and a high level of quality time.

    The '10,000' Hour rule that Gladwell popularized is part of what's needed to achieve mastery in a certain discipline. As someone in the thread rightly pointed out, Gladwell got the '10,000 Hour' rule from Anders Ericsson's studies in the early 90s.

    But what Gladwell omitted or glossed over in Outliers was that this is one of TWO major conclusions in Ericsson's work. And those two conclusions go hand in hand.

    The second conclusion is that to attain mastery in a discipline (Ericsson refers to is as achieving 'virtuoso' level) you not only have to put in approximately 10,000 hours of practice, but this 10,000 hours of practice has to be structured in a deliberate way to ensure that you keep making progress.

    Ericsson called this type of practice Deliberate Practice.

    If you want to get better at just about ANYTHING - this is the system to use. A far better book than Outliers in my opinion that looks at Deliberate Practice in detail - and offers suggestions on how to incorporate it in business - is a book called TALENT IS OVERRATED, by a guy called Geoff Colvin.

    Chapter 6 would be particularly interesting to any writers/content producers out there. In this chapter Colvin examines how Benjamin Franklin applied the principles of deliberate practice to make him a skilled and effective writer and communicator.

    As I said I know very little about Tim Ferriss's book - but if you're serious about improving your abilities at anything you should check out Colvin's book (it's about $10 on Amazon). And implement some of his ideas.

    Let me know how you get on - I have a blog on Deliberate Practice and the bass guitar, so it's something I'm keenly interested in.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post

    The premise of the 10,000-Hour Rule is that achieving greatness requires an enormous investment of time; specifically, about 10,000 hours.
    In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy.
    It seems to me that these are two extraordinarily different goals that have virtually nothing to do with one another.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by John Rogers:
      The premise of the 10,000-Hour Rule is that achieving greatness requires an enormous investment of time; specifically, about 10,000 hours.
      In The 4-Hour Work Week, Tim Ferriss advocates elimination and automation to liberate yourself from your work, thereby freeing up more time to do what you enjoy.

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      It seems to me that these are two extraordinarily different goals that have virtually nothing to do with one another.
      Only if "what you enjoy" is the cliche about permanently lounging on the beach with an umbrella drink, doing as little as possible. But what about those who would use the extra time to pursue greatness at something they actually like doing?
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

        But what about those who would use the extra time to pursue greatness at something they actually like doing?
        I suspect those people would gravitate to my own "168-hour work week" theory more than to a 4-hour work week.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    The 4-Hour Work Week is just a title, nothing more nothing less.

    Just like The One Minute Millionaire.

    Technically, you could be a millionaire in one minute, in a second. An electronic transfer of money from an inheritance or a lottery win could take just a few seconds to process.

    You could even say you are having a zero hour work week if you are taking a sabbatical.

    The problem is when people start taking The 4-Hour Work Week too literally and end up wasting the other 164 hours of the week doing nothing productive.

    The truth is, if you are not working on the menial activities of your business, you should be spending more time thinking and planning about how to expand your business.

    That's what Fortune 500 CEO's do. It's what Steve Jobs does. They don't work 4 hours a week.

    Maybe on a vacation.

    Fabian
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    • Profile picture of the author Woody C
      I thought Tim's reference to 4-hours of work was 4 hours of doing work that is necessary, but you don't really want to do ie customer service, technical work, stuff that you can't outsource easily. He is talking about building a lifestyle that you enjoy and can get work done.

      The rest of the hours of "work" was on stuff that he wanted to do like write blog posts, make videos with Kevin Rose, shoot TV series pilots, try out new technology, network with other entrepreneurs, etc etc.

      Here is a post from Tim's blog of a sample day: 24 Hours with Tim Ferriss, a Sample Schedule

      What many of us would consider work, he is spending 5-7 hours IN ONE DAY!! doing. He talks about the misnomer that many people think about the title of the book in this post and another one of his links on this post.

      Next, the 10,000 hour rule is also expounded in the book, The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle (Daniel's blog). It is a great book that talks about how myelin speeds up processes in the brain and body and how it forms where it is used the most and how many successful people do things with a deliberate purpose over and over until one day it comes natural to them. Of course there's a whole lot more to it, but I'd recommend you pick up the book to find out.

      Also, Work the System by Sam Carpenter is a great book. Click on the link in the above post to see what it's all about.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    I bought the newly revised, updated version of Tim's 4 hour work week and am highly impressed.

    There's tons of practical 'how to' and resources...way more than enough to justify
    the $22 ticket for admission.

    Personally, I identified with the fallacy of "work for work's sake"

    as well as asking myself, "Is the activity I'm doing now getting me closer to my goals?"

    and some of the other models for arriving at more productivity and clarity.

    Another resource I think is brilliant that Tim included is www.CopyTalk.com

    I can see myself getting some mileage out of that one.

    Has anyone tried the YourManInIndia?

    or what's the other one, Brickworks?

    I'd be interested to hear from Warriors who have put them to the test.

    Your experiences?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Just goes to show you there's more than one way to skin a wild boar.

    And yes John, I've had way too many beers today.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author brieat
    Tim Ferriss didn't tell you that he spent 10k hours building businesses then he learned to automate, thus the 4 hours work week. Sure, anyone can build a business on 4 hours a week but it would take years to build something nice (6 figures a year biz)
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    • Profile picture of the author TravisVOX
      I thought some of the best advice in the book was when it came to lifestyle in general. One of my favorite lines was where he asked why we work so hard now to have money when we're in our 60's and 70's when we'll be too old to do a lot of the things we want to do now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Calamaroo
    My goal is to eventually have a 168 hour workweek. But only actually physically work 4 hours of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author xnice
      I read 4 hour work week. It show the way similar to our internet marketing. And this time, a little people know about it, so it can be easy to success. Now everyone know and try to market in the internet. It hard to apply this method and we can find another by ourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucky500
    I read the 4 hour work week. I think is possible. it definitely takes time to achieve that. You will put a lot of hours of work to build your business, and a lot of sleepless nights (as a matter a fact I am still working ....) But once your business is sound, you can outsource about 70% of it, automate perhaps 25% and manage 5% directly. I read an article years ago about Mark Frind the founder of plenty of fish. at the time he was making between $5 to $10 millions in Adsense revenue (yearly) and he said in the article that he only works 2 hrs a day. is definitely possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    Great points here. I've been using the 4-hour workweek strategy in my business that led me to outsource those non dollar productive tasks and retain my focus. Although thanks for sharing this comparison.
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    To those who think that a 4 hour work week is impossible...

    Spend 10,000 hours learning the skills to RUN your business rather than WORK IN your business and you will probably be richer than you've ever dreamed and also be able to have a 0 hour work week.

    Build a business with capable employees and managers, and there's no need for you (as the owner) to be involved at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Woody (post# 30),

      Next, the 10,000 hour rule is also expounded in the book, The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle (Daniel's blog). It is a great book that talks about how myelin speeds up processes in the brain and body and how it forms where it is used the most and how many successful people do things with a deliberate purpose over and over until one day it comes natural to them. Of course there's a whole lot more to it, but I'd recommend you pick up the book to find out.
      Thanks for the tip. You triggered this chain of events -

      * Went here <-(link) and read the first chapter and the free snippets of chapters 5 & 9 (I recommend chapter one for anyone with 10 minutes to spare)

      * read a few of the blog posts and found this one <-(link) particularly good (about the guitarist 'Slash')

      * searched for and found a great video that demonstrates one of the topics of chapter one - (futsal - see below for video)

      * made some notes, then woke up my 14 yr old son (who is currently staying with me) at 7.30am to conduct exercise of reading through chapter one, discussing findings and related subjects plus conclusions and watched futsal video

      * let son go back to bed, hit Amazon, ordered 'the talent code' and two other books off my wish list, perused about ten related books (from Amazon's related books function and from other suggestions in this thread) - read the reviews, scrapped about five but added other five to wish list

      Cheers!

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      • Profile picture of the author Woody C
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Woody (post# 30),

        Thanks for the tip. You triggered this chain of events -

        * Went here <-(link) and read the first chapter and the free snippets of chapters 5 & 9 (I recommend chapter one for anyone with 10 minutes to spare)

        * read a few of the blog posts and found this one <-(link) particularly good (about the guitarist 'Slash')

        * searched for and found a great video that demonstrates one of the topics of chapter one - (futsal - see below for video)

        * made some notes, then woke up my 14 yr old son (who is currently staying with me) at 7.30am to conduct exercise of reading through chapter one, discussing findings and related subjects plus conclusions and watched futsal video

        * let son go back to bed, hit Amazon, ordered 'the talent code' and two other books off my wish list, perused about ten related books (from Amazon's related books function and from other suggestions in this thread) - read the reviews, scrapped about five but added other five to wish list

        Cheers!
        Hey ExRat,

        I had a similar chain of events after discovering the book. I read it in one sitting at the bookstore, called my girlfriend who is a middle-school basketball coach and told her all these great coaching ideas I had. It was pretty funny, but she tried a few and they started to win games.

        The book is amazing. You won't be let down.

        If you want to see someone taking all the ideas in the book seriously, read this blog about a guy trying to become a professional pool player in one year. It's a pretty good blog about creating talent on purpose.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi John,

    I don't think these things are mutually exclusive strategies.

    It seems to me that people love to overcomplicate this stuff and find reasons why things can't be done or look for exceptions to the rules, but in reality you can look at these strategies from many angles, but why focus on what isn't right for you or won't work for you?

    People often say "I'd give anything to be able to ...... (insert skill here)" but in reality they're not prepared to pay the price, otherwise they could do it.

    If the price is 10,000 hours (as a musician myself I'm happy to accept that as realistic) then perhaps that shows why people don't do it as often as you'd expect.

    For those that say you can't run a business in 4 hours a week - sorry to disagree but you can - I have.

    But what's the point of getting to the point where it only takes a few hours to make your money? - so that you can spend your time in ways that fulfill you.

    In reality - you're unlikely to be successful in business unless you're passionate about what you do.

    So I think this is where people get stuck - they want to make great money in a little time - doing 'anything' and they often choose things which they're not knowledgable or passionate about. This is a recipe for disaster for most people.

    If you really want to make great money as an expert or skilled practitioner of something - I think that the 10,000 hour strategy would work for most things.

    It all comes down to what you really want out of life and what you're prepared to pay.

    Most people are not prepared to pay the price for what they want - and so they're likely to struggle while doing many things at less than optimum effectiveness and hoping it all adds up to enough.

    Whatever you think the price is to realise your dreams - double it and be prepared to pay even more and there's no reason anyone can't be successful.

    I'm much more a fan of focusing your income on helping people by doing things you love. This way your business is a positive one that introduces you to new people in a way that you enjoy every day.

    This way it doesn't matter what number of hours you spend because you love them all.

    I think people differentiating between work and life tend to struggle getting the balance and always feel compromised.

    I've come to consider everything as life. Whatever I'm doing with my time - it's all taking time from my life, so I want to enjoy it whether it makes money or not.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Andy,

      I agree.

      It sounds like you also follow the theme of the Chinese proverb -

      'The journey is the reward'
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    • Profile picture of the author kiopa
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      For those that say you can't run a business in 4 hours a week - sorry to disagree but you can - I have.
      Ok, but let me ask you. How successful was your business after six months of working only 4 hours a week? Probably not very. Really, you're talking 5 days a week, 45mins a day, and that's it.

      I'm sorry, but no business owner or CEO in this world can put in a meager four hours a week, and expect a quality business operation in the months to come. Sure, you can setup some operations, and put them on auto-pilot via outsourcing, etc. That's only going to keep money flowing for so long though, before it dries up.

      Not to mention, does anyone here think the guy who wrote this 4 hour/week book only works 4 hours a week? Come on now...
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        That depends completely on what your business is.

        I am constantly morphing what I do based on my views on what my life is about.

        I have been able to work 4-hour weeks as a writer/consultant. I've been paid thousands of dollars for technical articles and up to $1000 an hour for my time when troubleshooting projects for other companies.

        With both of those activities $5k - $10k a month was possible for 4 hours a week (16 hours a month).

        I worked for companies that would charge me out to their customers for between $3k and $8k a day.

        One of my current offline clients has consultants who charge $2k a day or more.

        So, whether you just work 2 days a month, 45 minutes a day, or whatever minutes a day to get a job done - it is perfectly possible to make what most people consider a full time income in a few hours a week.

        I paid my garage $2k for work they did in 1/2 a day recently and I'm sure the cost of the parts to them was less than half of the final price I paid.

        It's easy for people to sit on the sidelines and dismiss the comments of people who say things can be achieved, but all they're really doing is placing limitations on what THEY can achieve.

        Right now I'm considering dropping virtually all of my IM and marketing related activities (bar looking after my current clients) to focus on building a music company.
        Some might say I'm crazy because I have a lot of ways to make money that I've stopped or am considering stopping - but that's only when you look at money as a motivation.

        Usually if I was to say something like this - the classic comment "it's ok for you to not care about money but I have to" comes back because people just don't get it. It's not about the money unless you make it about the money.

        So - if you want to sit on the sidelines of threads that talk about success, happiness and achieving dreams and throw in comments about why it won't work - fine. Just be aware that to anyone who knows different, all you're showing is your ignorance and negative mindset.

        There's NOTHING wrong with just working hard in something you enjoy and focusing your time on happy and loving relationships.

        We all get to choose our life and what we do with our time - so do your own thing, but don't rain on others striving for more just because of your own insecurities.

        Some of the things you think are impossible have already been done by members of this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    If I may?

    I do not think Tim's sole lesson is to work a "4 hour week" as such more it's about not being a slave to our wiring. Where we think in order to build a business we need to work 80 hours a week. If we aren't putting in 8+ hours a day we are slacking off. If we take 5 vacations a year.....it's not right.

    I think he's trying to tell us to move into a business owner with all the freedom that allows us and away from the average 40+ hour working Joe. It dosn't have to be 4 hours a week. What works for you. But you need to get more free time, step away from your business and enjoy life whilst you can. Chose that over making an extra few $$'s every time.

    I used to day trade.....now it was good money but what an awful way to make a lving. I would hate my days.......so I gave it up. Moved into other things. Where i was not tied to the computer 8+ hours a day. Why ayone would do this is now beyond me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi sloanjim,

      What works for you. But you need to get more free time, step away from your business and enjoy life whilst you can.
      I agree with you and I enjoy certain mindless activities like sunbathing etc - I think it's important to totally switch off, disconnect and 'get away' at times.

      But I would also add that a great trick I've learnt is to making observing, learning, reading, pondering, questioning etc - one of my favourite hobbies. If the average person analysed their 'downtime' and removed many of the things that they could afford to lose (especially those that surreptitiously add negativity to their existence or seem to speed up time, like watching TV) and replaced them with relaxing, but positive/productive leisure time - they might 'grow' more.

      As Andy touched upon above - combine everything into 'life'. Make all of 'life' a process of growing and progressing. Once it becomes a habit, it requires no conscious effort and anything less seems wasteful.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    you see this is the problem isn't it? I get all kinds of "snide comments" about the amount of free time I have from family/friends. I feel guilty some times if I take a morning off and wath a movie, have a coffee, play tennis etc...

    Peole ask me "what exactly do you do for aliving.." They can't get their heads around the free time I have... Me too sometimes.

    Personally, I identified with the fallacy of "work for work's sake"
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    What exactly is tim's business? Selling his book?
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    • Profile picture of the author Woody C
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      What exactly is tim's business? Selling his book?
      I believe his original business (and the one he mostly refers to in 4HWW) is a supplement company called BrainQuicken.

      BrainQUICKEN/BodyQUICKEN (Cognamine): As Featured on CBS and National News!

      I'm not sure if he still owns it or if he sold it, but either way, it made him a good bit of money.

      I believe he is more of an angel investor and venture capitalist these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    That 10,000 hours is just an estimation, and it may be more, or less than that. In order to have a minimum level of proficiency to run any type of business there must be some significant level of time investment initially. I think these 2 viewpoints are about different stages in one's business; you have to spend that initial time learning and acquiring expertise in your desired field, and then when you have the requisite experience you can start delegating and outsourcing, as you now know exactly what to expect and how to handle affairs in your business. You now have the expertise to delegate and outsource, and handle events from a "bird's eye view" perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author abugah
    I have read countless stories of millionaires and billionaires and other famous people. They all seem to suggest that the 10,000 hour rule is the proven success method and not the 4-hour work week.

    In fact,the laws of sowing and reaping, cause and effect suggest that the more you sow the more you reap. And sowing is a function of time.

    If we need success we should follow proven methods and I find Tim Ferris 4-hour week unsustainable regardless of the level of your success. In fact, I would be interested to see prove of people who work for 4 hours a week and are 'successful'. In any case if you do what you love, it would be unthinkable doing it for just 4 hours a week.

    Take a look at these quotes...
    1. “Work, work, work. I am constantly working and I don’t sleep more than two hours a night.” Silvio Berlusconi, the billionaire former prime minister of Italy.

    2. ''You must be willing to work as hard as you can to achieve success. There are very few financially successful entrepreneurs who have successful family and work lives. If success is a happy family, coaching your kids’ games, going to their concerts, don’t become an entrepreneur.'' Darwin Deason, former Arkansas farm boy who become a billionaire.

    3. "Read and write four to six hours a day. If you cannot find the time for that, you can't expect to become a good writer." Stephen King, the novelist Forbes magazine claims earned $34 million in 2010.
    .
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  • Profile picture of the author kevinmartinjr
    Always better to make money without investing so much time. Work smart, not hard
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