Ahh... Rookies Losing Commissions... Kills Me

Kay King

14 years ago

That's why "click here" is such a popular keyword phrase....:p

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SeanyG 14 years ago

Sloppiness never made anyone commissions!
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coluden

14 years ago

Yes, I read a long spiel from Jon Leger recently, bemoaning the same point. I think it may be something in the water where they come from...or seriously a flaw in the way they were educated about Internet Marketing. Don't forget, a huge number of product affiliates or product vendors have no idea what the warrior forum is! They therefore, have no experience as marketers. This is very basic.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Jason, there is actually a deeper issue here and why I laugh when I hear
people bitch about a certain info product being just "basic stuff" and thus
worthless.

There is a serious lack of knowledge on the Internet, by many people, when
it comes to "basic stuff." Your example is just one of the hundreds that I
could point out. And no, I am not going to list them here.

Point is, as marketers, we are way too close to this and have a kind of
tunnel vision that honestly scares me.

And THAT tunnel vision is actually costing us money AND customers.

The people who you are alienating, as product creators, by putting out
this stuff that is supposedly "cutting edge" are the folks who don't have
a freaking clue how to even upload via ftp.

I know you don't think there is a market for basic knowledge, but there
is. And by not recognizing that market (and it seems a lot of marketers
don't) you are actually losing out on a large potential customer base.

See, these people who buy your "basic" product and see how good it is
and how much it has helped them, will eventually buy your more advanced
products and you'll have customers for life.

For the life of me, I can't understand why marketers are so damn stuck
up that they feel that the only product worth anything is something that
took 16 freaking months to create, has 6 gazillion videos on 3 gazillion
ninja tactics and has a price tag that would make a Lexus a bargain.

But yeah Jason, you'd be surprised how many people don't have enough
sense to say "Click Here To Purchase This Great Product."

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JasonParker

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jason, there is actually a deeper issue here and why I laugh when I hear
people bitch about a certain info product being just "basic stuff" and thus
worthless.

There is a serious lack of knowledge on the Internet, by many people, when
it comes to "basic stuff." Your example is just one of the hundreds that I
could point out. And no, I am not going to list them here.

Point is, as marketers, we are way too close to this and have a kind of
tunnel vision that honestly scares me.

And THAT tunnel vision is actually costing us money AND customers.

The people who you are alienating, as product creators, by putting out
this stuff that is supposedly "cutting edge" are the folks who don't have
a freaking clue how to even upload via ftp.

I know you don't think there is a market for basic knowledge, but there
is. And by not recognizing that market (and it seems a lot of marketers
don't) you are actually losing out on a large potential customer base.

See, these people who buy your "basic" product and see how good it is
and how much it has helped them, will eventually buy your more advanced
products and you'll have customers for life.

For the life of me, I can't understand why marketers are so damn stuck
up that they feel that the only product worth anything is something that
took 16 freaking months to create, has 6 gazillion videos on 3 gazillion
ninja tactics and has a price tag that would make a Lexus a bargain.

But yeah Jason, you'd be surprised how many people don't have enough
sense to say "Click Here To Purchase This Great Product."

Good point.

I definitely think there's a huge need for this kind of stuff.

Then again... Need has to also = Want in order for a sale to be made.

So is it more profitable for us to sell basic information or advanced ninja tricks?

Which is the bigger and hungrier target market?

I honestly don't know.

But what I do is I find out what people want and give it to them.

If it's some advanced ninja trick someone wants, those can be really valuable too.

I could go out and create a product that I think is the greatest product I could ever create.

And one time I did that.

And it made a small fraction of what I normally make with a good promotion.

Boy did I learn my lesson, even though I already learned it before.

This time it got welded into my brain.

So if I find out my customers as a whole want a certain thing, I give it to them.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

There is a serious lack of knowledge on the Internet, by many people, when it comes to "basic stuff." Your example is just one of the hundreds that I could point out. And no, I am not going to list them here.

I'll make a short list for you... of things I myself do not know enough about, and not only will buy but am buying products to learn - even though my financial situation is very close to the bone:

- PPC advertising
- traffic generation
- sales funnels
- affiliate promotion
- membership sites

None of these are exactly rocket surgery. For a lot of people, these are very very basic things. And I know a substantial amount more about all of these than many people - enough that I can field a lot of questions and give a lot of advice, without the slightest amount of BS.

But I don't know enough about them, and I'm generally not comfortable using them in my own business as much as I should. Obviously, we all use SOME sort of sales funnel, but mine - bluntly speaking - totally sucks monkey butt.

And I'm starting to get vaguely uncomfortable at the reputation I'm generating, because a surprising number of people seem to be looking up to me for some reason. I'm not sure why; I'm lucky to make $1k a month, and I live in my parents' basement. But people shove me up on some sort of pedestal, and that makes me want to live up to those expectations.

So I have not only a real need, but a real want to learn these things - if only so when people PM me and ask me these questions, I can answer more of them and have better answers. Because I don't know about the gurus - I'm far from that level - but to me, it's embarrassing not to know these things.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

And I'm starting to get vaguely uncomfortable at the reputation I'm generating, because a surprising number of people seem to be looking up to me for some reason. I'm not sure why; I'm lucky to make $1k a month, and I live in my parents' basement. But people shove me up on some sort of pedestal, and that makes me want to live up to those expectations.

I can tell you why this is. You communicate very well. You write in a way
that makes you appear, well, damn smart. Even Paul Myers, who doesn't
throw compliments around, has commented on your smarts and insight.

You may not know all the X's and O's, but I'd love to have you around to
bounce ideas off of and get ideas from.

Remember the song you helped me with? It was the 2nd highest rated
tune, by the judges, of all the ones I submitted compared to my other
tunes.

And my goodness...you seem to know so much about so many different
things. And a lot of your opinions on things are very thought provoking

To be perfectly honest with you, there are a few people on this forum
whose posts I read...every single one they make. Paul Myers is one and
YOU are another.

That should tell you something.

So don't sell yourself short Caliban. You may not have all the technical
smarts of marketing, but you've got one hell of a head on your shoulders.

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jdenc

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I can tell you why this is. You communicate very well. You write in a way
that makes you appear, well, damn smart. Even Paul Myers, who doesn't
throw compliments around, has commented on your smarts and insight.

I would add that he also comes off as honest and I think people gravitate to that.

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Midas3 Consulting 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm not sure why; I'm lucky to make $1k a month, and I live in my parents' basement.

On the plus side, you're honesty's extremely refreshing.
- Thanks
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rts2271

14 years ago

Dead on Steve, were doing a whole series on back to the basics ourselves. I've received a deriding remark or two from the same people that don't know the difference between a verified email and a confirmed opt-in in our basic list management course.
Great post

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jason, there is actually a deeper issue here and why I laugh when I hear
people bitch about a certain info product being just "basic stuff" and thus
worthless.

There is a serious lack of knowledge on the Internet, by many people, when
it comes to "basic stuff." Your example is just one of the hundreds that I
could point out. And no, I am not going to list them here.

Point is, as marketers, we are way too close to this and have a kind of
tunnel vision that honestly scares me.

And THAT tunnel vision is actually costing us money AND customers.

The people who you are alienating, as product creators, by putting out
this stuff that is supposedly "cutting edge" are the folks who don't have
a freaking clue how to even upload via ftp.

I know you don't think there is a market for basic knowledge, but there
is. And by not recognizing that market (and it seems a lot of marketers
don't) you are actually losing out on a large potential customer base.

See, these people who buy your "basic" product and see how good it is
and how much it has helped them, will eventually buy your more advanced
products and you'll have customers for life.

For the life of me, I can't understand why marketers are so damn stuck
up that they feel that the only product worth anything is something that
took 16 freaking months to create, has 6 gazillion videos on 3 gazillion
ninja tactics and has a price tag that would make a Lexus a bargain.

But yeah Jason, you'd be surprised how many people don't have enough
sense to say "Click Here To Purchase This Great Product."

Thanks

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Mercenary development and deployment.

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Robert Puddy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

For the life of me, I can't understand why marketers are so damn stuck
up that they feel that the only product worth anything is something that
took 16 freaking months to create, has 6 gazillion videos on 3 gazillion
ninja tactics and has a price tag that would make a Lexus a bargain.

Because people want hot, hypey, and sexy...And they are really not interested in solid, basic and actionable

They want cutting edge, state of the art ninja tactics, and when these fail because they dont have the basics to attach the ninja tactics too. Its the sellers fault for daring to sell them what they asked for instead of forcing them to buy the basics first.

And another thing, I'm entitled to presume that someone buying my ninja tactics has the good sense and can be bothered to learn the basics first.

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timpears

14 years ago

You have to take your customer (visitor) by the hand and lead them, make it as easy as possible for them to DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO. Because, bottom line, most people are deaf, dumb and blind. And the ones that aren't, won't mind that you make the CLICK HERE very big so they can't miss it, and those of us that are nearly blind, will thank you.

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Tim Pears

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LoneWolfMuskoka

14 years ago

Many of us are hesitant when it comes to hard sell tactics and it takes a lot of learning and perseverance to overcome these problems. I think that is where us newbies will often screw up.

I know that I've been working hard to become more aggressive with my marketing language. I've never been aggressive in promoting things as I don't like it when people are aggressive with me. On the one hand I don't want to offend people, but on the other hand I need them to do something that will lead to income for me.

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Bill Farnham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by LoneWolfMuskoka

Many of us are hesitant when it comes to hard sell tactics and it takes a lot of learning and perseverance to overcome these problems. I think that is where us newbies will often screw up.

I know that I've been working hard to become more aggressive with my marketing language. I've never been aggressive in promoting things as I don't like it when people are aggressive with me. On the one hand I don't want to offend people, but on the other hand I need them to do something that will lead to income for me.

One thing that will help you get past this is to understand this basic concept...

When you create a page where you want to sell something, most of the people who arrive at that page will be expecting a "sales experience" in advance.

Believe it or not, it is your job to create a sales experience that can and will draw them in. That is why they are on your page in the first place.

Being wishy-washy or afraid to engage them on a sales level is not doing them any favors, and it won't help you, either.

You will actualy offend, for lack of a better word, those who come to your site, want to participate in a sales experience, and only find that 'they' need to take control of the sale if they want to accomplish their goal of making a purchase.

Bottom line...get over being afraid to sell. You'll actually make more people happy than you will make them annoyed once you acknowledge and embrace your role as the sales facilitator.

~Bill

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eaglechick

14 years ago

Amen Steven

Do you know how long it took me just to figure out on my own how to write and construct a proper resource box for my articles - many moons and many failures later I finally cracked it on my own - very basic knowledge that no one seems interested in sharing with me and I was too ashamed to ask! (My fault)

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Andie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by eaglechick

Amen Steven

Do you know how long it took me just to figure out on my own how to write and construct a proper resource box for my articles - many moons and many failures later I finally cracked it on my own - very basic knowledge that no one seems interested in sharing with me and I was too ashamed to ask! (My fault)

Eagle: I second the Amen for Steven --he always nails it.

To All: I have learned that when I decide to use whatever resource I work with (ok, still learning..always..lol)...is to stop wasting so much of my time with the mis-steps or hunting for answers <here and other places>, rather than taking the time to STUDY the resources own tools.
ie: EZA author resources, tutorials, etc tell exactly the best use of their service.
If folks would invest the time on some of the services/tools they have they could be Much more knowledgeable on the best way to make it work well. You don't need to buy the latest EBook or WSO on how to make twitter/ezine/cpanel work...it is really all there for the taking if you pay attention

good thread btw

Andie

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eaglechick 14 years ago

[QUOTE=Andie;2179830]Eagle: I second the Amen for Steven --he always nails it.

To All: I have learned that when I decide to use whatever resource I work with (ok, still learning..always..lol)...is to stop wasting so much of my time with the mis-steps or hunting for answers <here and other places>, rather than taking the time to STUDY the resources own tools.
ie: EZA author resources, tutorials, etc tell exactly the best use of their service.
If folks would invest the time on some of the services/tools they have they could be Much more knowledgeable on the best way to make it work well. You don't need to buy the latest EBook or WSO on how to make twitter/ezine/cpanel work...it is really all there for the taking if you pay attention

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANDIE - I've spent countless hours, time (time=money) and have been "brainwashed" to think that everything has to be complicated or there has to be a "hidden secret" somewhere.

Then (thankfully) "lightbulb" moment struck!

Who is the best qualified to teach you if you're looking for some answers?

So, if your looking for an answer on EZA - go to their blog or search their site
Let's face it - Christopher Knight (EZA) is probably one of the most
highest earning Adsense sites (whether we like it or not)

If your looking for an answer on Amazon - same - search their site or forum
Steve Bizos is one hell of a smart marketer, after all his site was the first to introduce affiliate marketing - all the other are copycats!

I'll admit you can learn a lot from other smart marketers,
GET BACK TO THE BASICS
and then expand further.
- Thanks
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kiopa

Banned 14 years ago

Not to sound like a jerk, but it's more than likely because the "experts" "train" all the new guys to entice potential customers first, before allowing them to see an "Order Now" button.

I'm with you though. I'm a busy guy. I don't want to spend 15 minutes at your site, screwing around, subscribing to some mailing with with an e-mail account I never look at, then confirm the e-mail address, just so I can get redirected to another page, then search through the 35 paragraphs of content looking for the "Order Now" button. I'm busy, just like you. I just want to give you my money, so you can give me your product, and we can both be happy.

Sorry if I was a little blunt. Long day. :-)

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jbode

14 years ago

The basics are always what the majority really needs - it seems

I know because I get emails almost every day (from subscribers) that are usually looking for something basic ...even if they don't know it

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efnwayne

14 years ago

Hi Jason,

You make a great point. After all tthe work to get the the sites up and offer published it is important to go though the flow and verify that you have a good solid call to action with at least 2 or 3 order buttons or links.

Also all links need to be tested.

I recently recieved a email from an established marketer with a sales video that requested to click the button below that would appear at the end of the video. I guess it had never been beta tested because no buy button never appeared. I think it was fixed in future emails but I never checked it again... I get your point

Wayne

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TimG

14 years ago

There are a number of things that I see on a daily basis that really stumps me:

1 - Articles on directories that have no resource box

2 - Websites whose order link button is broke so you can't actually place an order

3 - Testimonials on a product's sales letter from people whose links lead to a website that no longer exist. This one kills me the most because they are usually proclaiming that the product helped them immensely to make all this money but it apparantly wasn't enough to keep the website they use as their link online.

Steven, I think you have personally captured the newbie market more then anyone else I know and I think it is awesome the system you are using to help them while profiting at the same time.

Tim

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paulie888

14 years ago

This does not just happen in IM, but in so many other areas of life. It is the quintessential tale of the smart ass student who thinks himself too skilled and knowledgeable to be bothered about the basics, and only wants to impatiently move on to esoteric and more advanced techniques as speedily as possible. Therein lies the reason why for so many people progress can be much more readily achieved by having a mentor that ensures we do not get too cocky and egotistical, but instead stresses the importance of practice and getting the basics right.

IM is definitely not rocket science, but it does require tremendous discipline and perseverance to have laser-like focus on only the relevant techniques and best practices that will bring us results.

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mattalways

14 years ago

Maybe they only cared about the Adsense money and didn't even realize they can be making more. The step from PPC to affiliate sales is a big one. It requires lots of patience. Both with getting accepted to programs, and giving it time to pay off.

PPC is nice because you slap that sucker on a page and with good placement and traffic, you're seeing results. The hardest part is not knowing what you're doing! That's the hardest part to life. If we all had a blueprint, it would be simple. Unfortunately, you kind of just need to keep trying until you get some momentum to build off of.

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Mike1973

14 years ago

[QUOTE=JasonParker;2178298]

Your website pages need to be crystal clear on what action the visitor should be taking.

QUOTE]

jason, you are right. if your customer gets confused, no clicks and no sales

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Ahh... Rookies Losing Commissions... Kills Me

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