Is it really better to be rude to your customers?

Then people can go talk **** about him on another forum without rules. This forum has rules, and unless I'm mistaken, attacking other Warriors and hanging them publicly isn't allowed.

I don't see anythign wrong with this thread. No names were named, and it serves as a great example of how sellers shouldn't act.

But the second this gets dragged into the guys WSO thread the line has been crossed.

The only thing the guy is guilty of is being rude. It'll hurt him in the long run on its own. But under no circumstances does it warrant torpedoing his WSO thread.

No sweat Ken. I agree that Holly has a right as a customer to share her experience, but I feel like a simple "Note: Seller does not offer post-purchase support and was very rude upon inquiry", or something of the like would do.

Whereas posting this entire thread in the WSO would just seem like airing laundry in an attempt to add insult to injury.

Cheers
Ryan

Nope I understand. Like I said earlier, there is nothing wrong with this thread and it serves as a great example of what not to do as a seller. It's just any further action that I'd be hesitant about.

HypeFree,

Dude, you really do need to learn to be more tactful. I will defend your right to do business the way you choose, as long as you're honest about it. Just understand that you're asking for trouble by being belligerent.

The comment about avoiding Holly's products was uncalled for. That one was rude. It also happens to be wrong. Holly's been at this a long time, and she's got a solid, and well earned, reputation.


Paul

Hi Paul,

Well, I figured it was probably a communication gap at first. I was asking about support for the webinar SERVICE and he was responding that there was no support for the PRODUCT that taught how to hold webinars. That's why I kept trying to get my question answered.

Perhaps you're right, and I misinterpreted the "tone" in which he meant his replies to sound... but they sounded rude. No matter how many times I re-read them, they sound rude.

As for "threats" and "public complaint"... I threatened a chargeback because - at that point - I wasn't even sure if the guy was for real anymore, I thought he might be a scammer. And, at NO point in this thread (UNTIL he jumped in, and basically announced to everyone that it was HIM I was talking about), did I ever mention his name or username in a public fashion. So, I've tried to deal with this with as much integrity as possible.

I guess I could have kept quiet about the entire thing (I usually do), but I REALLY needed to air things out... as I said, the guy got under my skin.

You're right. In America we all have the right to be however we want.

If your true nature is that of a belligerant dickhead, then we, exercising the same, have the right to tell the world what we think about your behavior.

Eventually, you won't be selling out seminars. Being customer friendly is an expectation in the marketplace, and you've already garnered a reputation.

Not only would I not do business with you, I am halfway considering posting an article on my blog of all the publically available information that this discussion has created about exactly what not to do in the social media era. I am craving to use you as a textbook example of someone that not only doesn't "get it", but managed to create a permanent Google archive of quite possibly one of the most glaring examples of laughable customer service and marketing ever encountered.

I still think the Charlie Wenzell kid from that Pirate 4x4 forum that went viral to millions of people after he tried to scam someone in their classified section takes the cake - buy you sir, you are a candidate to also take a ride on the 4chan/Anonymous train.

The customer is not always right. But the customer ALWAYS PAYS YOUR BILLS.

And there's never any excuse for not being polite. Period. Maybe in your third world culture, politeness is some sign of weakness, I don't know. But in the bigger world, politeness is a demonstration of respect - which is never a sign of weakness, but rather one of strength.

Anyone can be a dickhead. It doesn't take any special character.

Someone gave some advice once that you should try your best to please your customers, but no matter how hard you try there are some that you just can't please.

They suggested that you 'sack' these customers, return their money and agree not to cross paths again.

Life is too short to be constantly fighting battles.

Steve.

Maybe I was wrong to use the word, "Idiot" and I apologies for that but I just think its weird for someone to jump straight into "You can have a refund" in his first reply after being asked two perfectly legit questions.

And Paul, you can call me an idiot if you wish.

Hi Paul/Holly/HypeFree,

I've read these posts with interest, as I work with people of a different nationality/culture/language a lot and I've been learning about the cultural/language differences - particularly concerning politeness and doing business. My country and the other one are quite close geographically, but have a 'history' (who don't the English have a 'history' with?!) and have some similarities but also quite different approaches to certain things - particularly concerning manners.

It's been an interesting experience.

I think you nailed it here Paul -

(Emphasis added by me.)

Ever since I discovered IM and this forum, I've had to adjust to the idea that other cultures view the use of hype differently to some of my own (UK) culture (and coincidentally the person being discussed chose to call themselves 'HypeFree') - particularly when hype is used in a manner where it can easily cross over a boundary into outright deception/lies and where that boundary has become blurred - quite often it seems that people use these cultural differences to their advantage by deliberately crossing the hype/deception boundary but act like it was accidental when they get caught out.

From my point of view, this lack of integrity is the epitome of impoliteness and because of this, I am much less likely to be offended if someone is bluntly honest - even to the point of rudeness, than if they were to try to deceive me. In my experience, the long term consequences of dishonesty are far more dangerous than any amount of 'honest' rudeness or bluntness.

I'd much rather deal with a rude, but honest person than a polite liar. In this thread it appears that HypeFree might actually have been trying to use some of the bluntness/rudeness to help save both of them time which could have been wasted on a business pairing that HypeFree felt right from the start was never going to work. In retrospect, with further information provided, I wonder if Holly feels that HypeFree was actually being less rude than she at first thought?

Here's something that caught my eye from post#31 (one of Holly's posts) -

(transcript of review request PM below in italics)
(End of PM transcript)
I might be off-course here, but Holly is saying that she was interested in helping the seller out (stated again in the actual PM as the reason for the request) and adds that she has dealt with HypeFree honestly.

Yet, at the end Holly states that she isn't interested in the product, just finding out what system the seller is using (presumeably for her own benefit) - which appears to contradict (slightly) the reasons given for her request and her claim of dealing with HypeFree honestly.

Plus, Holly is willing to provide a review, which as we all know would probably be used as a testimonial for this product far and wide if the review was good.

Going back to the cultural differences I mentioned earlier on, I'm wondering if this is an example? From all I have seen and heard about Holly, she is of the highest integrity - and she obviously values her reputation (as stated in the PM) - and I still have no reason to question her core integrity and I hope that the following paragraph (or above) does not offend.

But there appears to be a duality to her reasoning for the request and yet again I am left wondering why people would prefer to have their name/reputation used across the internet recommending a product (even one they 'have no interest in') in preference to just paying for it in order to learn something they desire to learn?

I feel that this again highlights the differences in the way that different cultures view these things - even between two similar, shared language, Western cultures - although it's worth mentioning that my opinion/attitude may differ from others within my culture/country - I'm just generalising a little for the sake of convenience. I'm also ignoring Kierkegaard's valid point in post# 124 about the difference between politeness and etiquette for the same reason.

Hi Jim Hallmark,

You make a valid and useful point in your post, but regarding the above quote, there was another reason given too (later) which may offer additional insight into HypeFree's response.

Michael, Nope. Because we expect the rest of the world to adapt and do things our way, and we judge them as being somehow inferior if they don't. And because we attempt to impose our definitions of things like "polite" on others.

Recognizing and accepting the simple reality of cultural differences is not something people in most western countries are good at. Cultural arrogance, on the other hand...


Paul

HypeFree, Infractions are one member nudging another and saying, "Bad boy. No cookie!" They should be considered as warnings that someone doesn't approve.

They have no power other than that. Anyone can give anyone an infraction at any time for any reason. Consider the source, and decide if you want to pay attention.

You haven't done anything in this thread that's against the rules.


Paul

You said you didn't think it was cultural and I was wondering how you came to that conclusion.