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Everything You Need To Know About Persuasion In 1 Sentence!

by Joel
69 replies
"People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies" quoted from Blair Warren.

Are your sales & marketing efforts aligned with the above?
#persuasion #sentence
  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi Joel,

    quoted from Blair Wilson
    It's Blair Warren. If you like the one sentence persuasion report you should get hold of his full version - although it's not cheap.

    Personally, I like to read the theory - I find it fascinating. But I don't think I could actually apply those rules (in isolation) to my sales, marketing or my life.

    I'd rather just be myself and be honest with people and live with the consequences - that way I'll grow from the challenges that confront me, rather than practising weakness by avoidance.

    If you blindly follow those five guidelines as they are, without consideration of the consequences or any other factors, you'll simply become someone who's willing to do and say anything to get what you want - regardless of whether it's the worst possible thing for the person you're persuading.

    That's not the same as persuading someone in order to get what's best for both of you or best for them, it's pure, single-minded, one-sided psychopathy.

    I'm certainly not suggesting that that's what you are implying by this thread!

    I'm making the point that we have a choice - we either aim to get people to 'do anything for us', or we aim to get them to do what's best for the both of us, or we aim to get them to do what's best for them.

    The latter two are fine, it's the first one that's not. Being aware of the three options and which one we're currently aiming for is the crucial starting point - that some never even consider.

    Do you want to be a genuine, universally-admired leader? Or do you want to be a cult leader, admired only by your indoctrinated flock?
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    Roger Davis
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    • Profile picture of the author JimmyS
      Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

      Hi Joel,

      It's Blair Warren. If you like the one sentence persuasion report you should get hold of his full version - although it's not cheap.

      Personally, I like to read the theory - I find it fascinating. But I don't think I could actually apply those rules (in isolation) to my sales, marketing or my life.

      I'd rather just be myself and be honest with people and live with the consequences - that way I'll grow from the challenges that confront me, rather than practising weakness by avoidance.

      If you blindly follow those five guidelines as they are, without consideration of the consequences or any other factors, you'll simply become someone who's willing to do and say anything to get what you want - regardless of whether it's the worst possible thing for the person you're persuading.

      That's not the same as persuading someone in order to get what's best for both of you or best for them, it's pure, single-minded, one-sided psychopathy.

      I'm certainly not suggesting that that's what you are implying by this thread!

      I'm making the point that we have a choice - we either aim to get people to 'do anything for us', or we aim to get them to do what's best for the both of us, or we aim to get them to do what's best for them.

      The latter two are fine, it's the first one that's not. Being aware of the three options and which one we're currently aiming for is the crucial starting point - that some never even consider.

      Do you want to be a genuine, universally-admired leader? Or do you want to be a cult leader, admired only by your indoctrinated flock?
      I admire your response as well as support it. I agree with what you said. There might be a lot of theories going on but nothing beats when you are yourself. Honesty is the best rule to become persuasive because with honesty comes respect and authority.
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      • Profile picture of the author André Silverspoon
        Add to it sincerity... it is highly contagious that build long lasting impression on clients. In the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so persuasion is much easier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
      Hi Roger,

      I was intrigued by your response. It sounds like you've thought a lot about it.

      So have I, and I see it differently.

      I don't think that quote means you can't be yourself.

      First of all, some people shouldn't be themselves. They're not nice people, and they should read, How to Win Friends and Influence People, or the Sermon on the Mount, and change who they are at present.

      Secondly, avoidance of conflict is not weakness, so long as it does not contradict basic ethics.

      E.g. Don't avoid upsetting a murderer when you have the opportunity to testify truthfully against them and bring them to justice.

      Thirdly, encouraging people's dreams does not necessarily mean you comply with them. You're not always telling them what they initially want to hear. Sometimes to encourage their dreams means you give them a wake up call, and help change how they think.

      Fourthly, I don't think there is such a think as a universally admired leader. Every true leader garners cult-like following. That doesn't make it bad, as long as they use it for good and don't abuse it.

      And lastly, the best way to be rewarded is to give. If you selflessly apply the original quote with the primary desire of helping people, you will be rewarded, whether you like it or not.

      Don't go after the riches of the wool. Help the sheep though, and you'll naturally be rewarded with the wool.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Steven/Michael M,

        Thanks!

        Hi Michael H,

        IMHO, this is one of the foundations within Mass Control. Cult building. Us vs. Them. Etc...
        I haven't seen the course, but the name of it would suggest so. I know of another marketer who's selling a cult building/related course too.

        The problem is - no matter how good the course might be, when you give your money to someone selling an expensive course about that subject, are you buying the course or paying the price of admission? The way to find out is to examine whether the buyer goes off and uses what they have learnt for some sort of gain, or do they not do this and then find themselves buying more products off the same person. If it's the latter, they're supping the kool-aid like a good 'un.

        Hi Dietriffic,

        Secondly, avoidance of conflict is not weakness, so long as it does not contradict basic ethics.

        E.g. Don't avoid upsetting a murderer when you have the opportunity to testify truthfully against them and bring them to justice.
        With respect, you're changing the context by shifting it to avoidance of conflict. What I stated was avoidance of the challenges that present themselves because of our honesty - that can be conflict, but could also be hardship, having to do more work etc.

        In it's correct context I believe that it makes perfect sense. I believe that many of the challenges that life 'presents to us' arrive directly because of areas where we are weak. So by facing these challenges and overcoming them, it's not wasted effort. We improve ourselves in the areas where we might be weak.

        If we avoid these type of challenges, we are only delaying the inevitable - they will keep re-appearing for the same reason they appeared in the first place and by avoiding them, we may save time/effort in the short term, but in the long term we are less capable and effective in general (and in particular, at overcoming challenges) - hence 'practising weakness'.

        Thirdly, encouraging people's dreams does not necessarily mean you comply with them. You're not always telling them what they initially want to hear. Sometimes to encourage their dreams means you give them a wake up call, and help change how they think.
        Obviously, if the dreams someone has are perfectly suitable for them then there is nothing wrong with us encouraging them. And obviously, I wasn't referring to that scenario - but rather, I was referring to encouraging their dreams which would benefit us, but not them. This is where I made that distinction -

        If you blindly follow those five guidelines as they are, without consideration of the consequences or any other factors

        [snip]

        regardless of whether it's the worst possible thing for the person you're persuading.
        Next -

        Fourthly, I don't think there is such a think as a universally admired leader.
        I agree with that part, but for different reasons - I should have said 'almost universally admired leader' (or something along those lines) - because it's virtually impossible to be 'universally admired.' Not everyone will appreciate someone, even if they are amazing and even if the majority do admire them.

        Every true leader garners cult-like following.
        Perhaps they do, even without trying. But that isn't the reason why they couldn't be universally admired. It's just because some people are always looking to follow someone in that way - as hinted at in 'The Life Of Brian.'

        And lastly, the best way to be rewarded is to give. If you selflessly apply the original quote with the primary desire of helping people, you will be rewarded, whether you like it or not.
        Are you stating that as a universal truth? There's a very famous story about a bloke (I have no idea if there's any truth in it) who always gave to others and tried to do good and generally followed the formula and they strung him up.
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        Roger Davis
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Richard,

          I'm also intrigued by your response?

          If you have a lever to persuade like Blair offers... why be concerned about whether its right for the customer or not? That's for them to decide, not you or I.
          I could offer 1000s of analogies that might shed some light on that. Do I need to?

          Think about the weak, vulnerable, young, naive etc - and the products that are marketed to them and how they are marketed. There is a line that is easily crossed - we see it all around us every day.

          OK - an analogy - why is it illegal to sell heroin and other highly-addictive drugs? Is it because it's not the responsibility of the seller, but the responsibility of the buyer to decide? Or is there some other reason?

          * You will feel ecstatic - beyond your wildest dreams
          * It's not your fault you just want to feel good for once
          * Don't worry, as long as you don't OD you'll be fine later on
          * 'They' (lawmakers) just want to stop YOU from having a good time
          * The world is a bad place, which is why you feel down. They don't care about you or your sadness, but I can make you happy again for a few quid.

          See how it works?

          To sell anything, we have to persuasive, surely that's the core element of marketing?
          It probably is the core of marketing, but do we have to be persuasive to sell everything? I'm not so sure.

          Pound coins for sale. 50p each.

          Hi Brian,
          When you formulate your arguments around these core elements of human nature, people make the IMPLICIT decision to JOIN YOU, rather than comply to your demands.

          That's a hell of difference!
          I agree with you. I figure you've probably also read the full report (forbidden keys to persuasion)?

          I think that unless someone has read it (or at least the explanation that comes with the 'one sentence persuasion' report) the one sentence can have a different meaning. Right from the off, Blair tackles the subject of 'manipulation' and the difference between that and persuasion.
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          Roger Davis
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          • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Pound coins for sale. 50p each.

            My bet is that you would get very few people to actually take you up on that offer simply due to paranoia (Are they forgeries? What's the catch?) and ESPECIALLY if you couldn't go back and forth with them to explain your proposition.

            In fact, in my experience, it's often times significantly harder to sell something that is, in all actuality, an exceptional deal, due to paranoia. For instance, I was desperate for cash and had to sell a $400 laptop for $100 bucks... I got hundreds of emails on it and NOT ONE PERSON actually came and got it. I re-listed it a week later for $400 and sold it the same day to the second person that emailed me (who, ironically enough, emailed me when it was $100).


            And if you are in fact trying to sell something for a truly exceptional value (i.e. your 1 pound for 50p) you would probably have to allay several people's fears to get them to actually take you up on it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
            Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post


            If you have a lever to persuade like Blair offers... why be concerned about whether its right for the customer or not? That's for them to decide, not you or I.
            I fully and 100% agree with this statement, to many people try to make decisions for other people, either in their marketing (people cant afford it) or in their philophesy like Roger


            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Richard,

            I could offer 1000s of analogies that might shed some light on that. Do I need to?

            Think about the weak, vulnerable, young, naive etc - and the products that are marketed to them and how they are marketed. There is a line that is easily crossed - we see it all around us every day.
            All of this is fine Roger but the statement above still stands...

            Intent is the deciding factor not the premiss
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Bob,
              to many people try to make decisions for other people, either in their marketing (people cant afford it) or in their philophesy like Roger
              Umm... What Roger are you talking about? ExRat doesn't try to make decisions for anyone else. Not that I've ever seen. He expresses opinions on how he thinks things ought to be done, but to enforce those opinions?

              Nah. You've got the wrong guy...


              Paul
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              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Roger,
                What a delightfully considerate and courteous way of expressing what I was thinking as I looked at the cover on Amazon and considered the choice of title. I think I might struggle to finish that one
                It's sort of like "The Selfish Gene." It's powerful, but it's not an easy read. Most people won't finish either of them, unless they're really into the subject matter.

                A more useful book on the general subject of how we believe what we do, and how we edit those beliefs, is "On Being Certain," by Robert Burton. It's not precisely on the topic of the development of consciousness, but it's got more immediate application.

                "Quirkology" is a look at how we learn "big truths from small things." Wiseman is really quite a good writer, for a scientist.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  "The Selfish Gene."
                  This book captivated me for a LONG time...

                  In fact, I still pick it up every now and again. Great read, well more like an assignment, but great nonetheless.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Caliban,
                  Will people say something they know to be untrue if they're on camera, or not?
                  You're being deliberately obtuse. There is a large difference between telling a lie that can't be proved (lying while the tape is being made) and lying about something you know can (after the fact).

                  As far as the right/left thing and mirrors, that is precisely the basis for the experiment. It demonstrates whether the person looks at it from their own perspective or aligns it with what other people will see.
                  And if this is your exemplar of the study, I can only assume there are similarly outrageous flaws in the other experimental methodologies. This experiment is worse than useless. It appears to mean something, but it doesn't mean anything. It's utter bullsquat.
                  You assume that your logic is sound, which it isn't. Which renders your conclusion "utter bullsquat."

                  The fact that I didn't describe the thing in detail doesn't mean the details don't exist. One doesn't usually do a treatise based on a casual forum discussion.

                  But, you're invested in your conclusion, which never lends itself to a productive discussion. So, I'm done with it. I'm not going to play into this particular instance of suppositional silliness.


                  Paul
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                  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    There is a large difference between telling a lie that can't be proved (lying while the tape is being made) and lying about something you know can (after the fact).
                    There is an even larger difference between saying something you know to be false, and saying something you believe to be true which is in fact false.

                    And I am saying we cannot determine which is being done in the study you cite. We don't know whether people are lying for themselves, or for the authority figure asking the question, or simply because they are wrong. There's no way to tell. But the study ONLY demonstrates the fungibility of memory if the people are lying for themselves.
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                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
          Are you stating that as a universal truth? There's a very famous story about a bloke (I have no idea if there's any truth in it) who always gave to others and tried to do good and generally followed the formula and they strung him up.
          They probably hated his religion.

          Not all reward is money.

          Even in the above example, if it was a martyrdom, the guy probably believed he was dying for a greater reward than money could ever give him. In a sense, they were rewarding him.
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          Weight loss/fitness marketers earn 75% per sale with... The Fat Reversal Formula
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDavies
      Very well said sir and an attitude more people need to take in their copy, approach and customer service.

      All my best!

      Rick Davies
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  • Profile picture of the author yzal
    Originally Posted by Joel View Post

    "People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies" quoted from Blair Wilson.

    Are your sales & marketing efforts aligned with the above?

    That could be transformed into an entire copywriting course.

    What a perfect sentence!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
    What Roger said ^^^^^

    No sense in trying to improve on that...lol

    Have a Great Day!
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel
    Ooops ... forgot to include this .... get the PDF of his material, free here:

    Blair Warren's One Sentence Persuasion Course
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    "Without data or facts, you are just another person with an opinion"

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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi Joel,

    Cool quote It mostly embodies the art of persuasion.

    I disagree with the rock throwing at enemies bit. Never get caught up in another's karma. Help them out but if their ship is going down let 'em sink with it and look for another prospect.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author dougp
      I could say everything you need to know about becoming a millionaire is connections. Its good advice, but it needs to be a little more polished before a newbie can digest it. A good way to polish it up is turn it into a course .
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      • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
        Originally Posted by I could say everything you need to know about becoming a millionaire is connections. [U

        Its good advice, but it needs to be a little more [/U]
        Originally Posted by I could say everything you need to know about becoming a millionaire is connections. [U

        polished before a newbie can digest it. A good way to polish it up is turn it into a course .
        You can encourage accomplishment of dreams and allay the fears of men when that will move them forward in life. But I will not agree with justifying their fears and confirming their suspicion. Neither will I help them stone their enemies, all in the name of GETTING THEM TO DO ANYTHING FOR ME
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  • Profile picture of the author CoachEric
    As pertains to persuasion and selling, my favorite author is Blair Singer who has some great training on overcoming objections. www.salesdogs.com
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  • Profile picture of the author alexbbbh
    I like this sentence a lot. Simple and powerful - it condenses pretty much the whole definition of persuasion.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    IMHO, this is one of the foundations within Mass Control. Cult building. Us vs. Them. Etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    You really can make $10,000 overnight! And if you aren't making that now, it's NOT your fault that the "gurus" are trying to hide their secrets. See, since the dawn of history, there have been a few people in power, pulling the strings...but not anymore! The people who have been responsible for holding you back are about ready to fall, and fall hard.

    "But I have a full-time job and don't have enough free time to learn anything difficult."

    I hear you and have some good news. It takes no time at all, and here's the best part...once you get try this system you'll be able to tell your boss to take a hike.

    (Did I cover all 5?)



    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      You really can make $10,000 overnight! And if you aren't making that now, it's NOT your fault that the "gurus" are trying to hide their secrets. See, since the dawn of history, there have been a few people in power, pulling the strings...but not anymore! The people who have been responsible for holding you back are about ready to fall, and fall hard.

      "But I have a full-time job and don't have enough free time to learn anything difficult."

      I hear you and have some good news. It takes no time at all, and here's the best part...once you get try this system you'll be able to tell your boss to take a hike.

      (Did I cover all 5?)



      All the best,
      Michael
      Not enough rocks!
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      — Melanie (RD)

      Weight loss/fitness marketers earn 75% per sale with... The Fat Reversal Formula
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingTestMonkey
    Here's something cool that I learned from Frank Kern for a three step process to selling:
    Here's What I got -Overview
    Here's What its gonna do for you - Points out Major Benefits
    Here's What you do next - Call to actions
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by MarketingTestMonkey View Post

      Here's something cool that I learned from Frank Kern for a three step process to selling:
      Here's What I got -Overview
      Here's What its gonna do for you - Points out Major Benefits
      Here's What you do next - Call to actions
      What you apparently didn't get from Frank is that
      he got it from John Carlton.

      :p
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      Brian McLeod
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Blair is a very clever dude and a nice guy too.

    What he's done with his One Sentence Persuasion Course is distill down all of the basic elements of a persuasive sales argument into ACTIONS.

    When you formulate your arguments around these core elements of human nature, people make the IMPLICIT decision to JOIN YOU, rather than comply to your demands.

    That's a hell of a difference!

    ENCOURAGE their dreams... YOU deserve what you want.

    JUSTIFY their failures... EVERYBODY strikes out, it's a given.

    ALLAY their fears... What's the WORST that can happen? Is that so bad?

    CONFIRM their suspicions... Correct, Houston, there IS a problem.

    Help them THROW ROCKS at enemies... "THEY" are finally getting what's coming to 'em!

    I used to chat regularly with Blair on Twitter. We both share a love for hard rock music and view it as a transformative mechanism for shifting gears mentally. Turned him onto King's X, which surprised me to no end, given that Blair's in TEXAS, fer gawd's sake.

    There's a thread in the War Room about Blair and his report. I forget the title but it's something about a "little known occult book slips through the cracks..." Blair responds personally in the thread.

    Best,

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author OLOORE
    hey, would you go around stoning my perceived enemies, when you are not privy to what transpired between us? I'm getting set to brand all my competitors,"ËNEMIES".
    Because they are giving my clients BETTER deals.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by OLOORE View Post

      hey, would you go around stoning my perceived enemies, when you are not privy to what transpired between us? I'm getting set to brand all my competitors,"ËNEMIES".
      Because they are giving my clients BETTER deals.
      You need to "flip the burger"...

      It's not about YOUR enemies... it's about THEIR perceived enemies.

      When you demonstrate that you completely understand their point of view, down to sharing a common thread of disliking who and what they dislike, you create rapport.
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      Brian McLeod
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Brian,

        It's not about YOUR enemies... it's about THEIR perceived enemies.

        When you demonstrate that you completely understand their point of view, down to sharing a common thread of disliking who and what they dislike, you create rapport.
        That seems to me like a good opportunity to demonstrate how easy it is for people to take the 'one sentence persuasion' (in isolation), misunderstand the whole concept and 'cross the line' - EG -

        Your prospect has a competitor. You frame this person as his enemy, demonstrate your shared dislike for him, thus creating empathy.

        The next day you visit the competitor also as a prospect and go through the same process, except yesterday's prospect is the new enemy.

        In other words you sell arms to both sides in a conflict by alternatively and falsely pledging allegiance to either side, as suits.
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        Roger Davis
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by OLOORE View Post

      hey, would you go around stoning my perceived enemies, when you are not privy to what transpired between us? I'm getting set to brand all my competitors,"ËNEMIES".
      Because they are giving my clients BETTER deals.
      You're misunderstanding enemies.

      Your enemies don't have to be the competition. They can be the "people that said you couldn't do it"

      And who can't get on board with stoning motivation sucking pessimists?
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Dietriffic,

        OK, fair cop - I picked a bad analogy.

        And lastly, the best way to be rewarded is to give. If you selflessly apply the original quote with the primary desire of helping people, you will be rewarded, whether you like it or not.
        Can I ask what underlying theory you base your statement upon? It's not that I necessarily disagree with the statement, but I'm interested in your point of view.

        Hi Paul,

        Thanks for your extra input. I presume that you feel that it's a book that's worthy of a read? (Quirkology) Author = Richard Wiseman? Likewise 'Consciousness Explained'?

        Hi Mr. Monster,

        My bet is that you would get very few people to actually take you up on that offer simply due to paranoia
        I would tend to agree. Again, perhaps I chose a bad example, although I think it still makes the point I was trying to make, regardless of whether paranoia would have an effect.

        To sell anything, we have to (be) persuasive
        I don't think that's entirely true. Think of retailing, for example.

        Hi Richard,

        I don't act like a pimp or drug dealer in the process.
        I know and I hope you didn't think that I was suggesting that - I just like to use extreme examples where appropriate as they often provide simple clarity.

        It's just that so many marketers I have this discussion with seem to easily blur the lines between 'gentle persuasion' plus 'let them decide' and the very different scenario where they are justifying something quite different with 'no-one forced them to buy - they decided to buy for themselves.' I see them using the latter to try and justify hidden stuff, misleading stuff and the whole gamut.

        Your theorizing as ever
        Well that's what I do! I know it's a bit nit-picky and annoying at times (apologies), but no-one's perfect and I only do it as I hope that it provides a slightly different perspective.

        and forgetting what we are all about... moving product
        With respect, that might be true for the majority, but it's definitely not for the whole. Plus, in the context of the discussion, it's a bit too much like the line that gets used so often by those mentioned just above (those who blur the lines) when they offer the old chestnut - 'it's just business' - as some kind of catch-all excuse for absolutely any kind of nefarious behaviour within the realm of doing business.

        I'm actually more 'all about' personal development or self-discovery via my career than I am 'all about moving product'. The moving product just enables me to do more of the other. I know it's not so cool to admit that around here, but it is as it is.
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        Roger Davis
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          I have always found sales to be a fascinating subject.

          Take a store that sells men's suits.

          You would think that a customer who walks in would only need to see a suit
          that he liked the look and feel of to make a purchase.

          But what it he didn't care so much about how the suit looked and felt. What
          if his main concern was durability because he didn't have a lot of money
          to spend on suits and needed something that was going to last a long time.

          Durability is not something you can readily see or feel. So in this case, a
          salesperson would have to explain to the customer just how durable the
          suit was, in addition to how good it looked and fit on him.

          So in some cases, a customer may not need to be persuaded or
          convinced to buy a certain product and in other cases, for the same
          product, they would need to be.

          I think too many people look at sales as an absolute in one direction or
          the other when in actuality, we are all different and therefor have
          different needs and respond to different things.

          When I buy a car, I couldn't care less how it looked or how fast it went.

          I want something that will get me from point A to point B and not break
          down every 4 weeks.

          And I am sure there are other people like me who only care about the
          car being reliable.

          In a sense, each product is going to appeal to a different subset of that
          target market.

          So even retail, sometimes you need some sort of persuasion, even if it's
          in the way the product is packaged.

          Take a cereal line targeted to people who are looking to stay regular.

          Know what you'll see on the package?

          How many grams of fiber are in each serving.

          You won't see that on a package of Fruit Loops.

          I've said it before and I'll say it again...in this business, absolutes will
          kill you.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Hey Roger,

    Good to chat with you. Haven't see you around much.

    I guess my view is that like a good, sharp knife, marketing
    and effective persuasion can either cut the ties that bind or
    wound the unsuspecting.

    Do guns kill or do people?

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I don't know...Whatever happened to...

      "Here's your problem. Here's your solution. Here is why it is your solution and
      why it's better than the other solutions out there?"

      "What are your concerns or objections? Oh? Well, here is why you need not
      be concerned or why this shouldn't be an objection."

      If you're honest with your answers (I guess that's the whole ballgame) I
      don't see why the above can't put the bacon on the table and leave you
      with a conscience that you can live with.

      Or maybe I'm just being too naive about all this.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Brian,

      Thanks

      Do guns kill or do people?
      I think they both do - they need to do the deed in unison, unless the person kills them with another weapon or their bare hands, which is a different scenario.

      Normally, it would require the person to shoot the gun (excluding random discharges or the loaded and cocked gun falling off a shelf and somehow the trigger being activated.) Therefore the gun requires the person.

      And to shoot someone, the person requires the gun (unless they instruct someone else with a gun to do it for them.)

      I guess my view is that like a good, sharp knife, marketing
      and effective persuasion can either cut the ties that bind or
      wound the unsuspecting.
      Most definitely. There is a line, which can easily be crossed. I think the 'everything you need to know about persuasion in one sentence' is a little bit misleading. I think you need to also know Blair's elaboration and explanation as the sentence itself is actually just an oversimplification which can be taken to summarise either someone innocently cutting some butter OR someone stabbing someone to death (as it were).

      Hi Steven,

      Or maybe I'm just being too naive about all this.
      The interesting thing is (and I mentioned this to Blair) - I found a lot of what Blair teaches early on in the report (as he 'sets the stage') to be way more useful for understanding myself than understanding anyone else and how to sell to them.

      I found a lot of what he teaches to be spot on and caused a few 'lightbulb moments' for me. It's (kind of) to do with what's in my sig (the one about 'umbilical cords'). And most marketing forum lurkers will recognise the theme of it when it comes to how we assume that our decisions are primarily logical (because we consciously chew over the details) when in fact they are highly emotionally-based. We simply twist our thinking to suit the decision that our emotions dictate and lie to ourselves that it was a logical decision. As you probably know, Paul Myers delves into this area a lot in his excellent free talkbiz newsletter (shameless plug).

      I love this quote from Blair's report -

      'One should not be too straightforward. Go and see the forest. The straight trees are cut down, the crooked ones are left standing.' Chanakya 4th century B.C.

      I see more than a handful of different meanings that can be derived from that statement - and those type of sayings are usually the best - they make you think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimian
    Sorta reminds me of Dale Carnegie... Never condemn or criticize anyone. Agree and Praise works much better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Roger mentioned the other book by Blair, the "Forbidden Keys To Persuasion," and it is very, very good. Actually it's the manual to a 6-week e-course he used to teach.

    It took a little hunting to find it, as Blair's website didn't offer it at the time I was looking for it. He does sell the book through e-Junkie. Search e-junkie for Blair Warren.

    Blair used to be on the WF, but I haven't seen him here in a long time.

    Yes, there is the free "One Sentence Persuasion" book, but Blair also sells an audio CD with an expansion of the "One Sentence Persuasion" book. It too is quite good.

    Some of the basic premises come from "Resiliant Identities" by Dr. William Swann. Blair mentions Swann in the book.

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    LOL - now there's some good old fashioned "get rich quick" type of marketing for ya.

    Sure, you can do that all in one sentence (if your audience can read such a sentence), but to properly execute such a sentence will take years of study in cognitive science, linguistics, and social sciences........and if you get it wrong, your business will never recover.

    Considering the impotence of most wanna be writers, I'd say that is one loaded gun and be very careful where you point it when you are pulling the trigger.

    Just sayin...........
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      LOL - now there's some good old fashioned "get rich quick" type of marketing for ya.

      Sure, you can do that all in one sentence (if your audience can read such a sentence), but to properly execute such a sentence will take years of study in cognitive science, linguistics, and social sciences........and if you get it wrong, your business will never recover.

      Considering the impotence of most wanna be writers, I'd say that is one loaded gun and be very careful where you point it when you are pulling the trigger.

      Just sayin...........
      Hey Sal,

      I think the point is that what you need to know about persuasion is in that one sentence; not that you can persuade people with a single sentence that incorporates each of those five points.

      At least that was my interpretation.

      Whether or not that's the case, your point is a good one based on that point of view. Furthermore, it's a good point in the more general sense. A certain adage kept coming to mind as I was reading this thread...

      A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Hey Sal,

        I think the point is that what you need to know about persuasion is in that one sentence; not that you can persuade people with a single sentence that incorporates each of those five points.

        At least that was my interpretation.

        Whether or not that's the case, your point is a good one based on that point of view. Furthermore, it's a good point in the more general sense. A certain adage kept coming to mind as I was reading this thread...

        A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

        All the best,
        Michael

        Michael, sadly, any knowledge can be dangerous.

        Those with a little and little idea how to use it, can unintentionally or
        intentionally screw things up.

        Those with a lot of knowledge can damn well make sure they screw
        things up if they want.

        As Brian said, guns don't kill people...people kill people.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Roger,
        we assume that our decisions are primarily logical (because we consciously chew over the details) when in fact they are highly emotionally-based. We simply twist our thinking to suit the decision that our emotions dictate and lie to ourselves that it was a logical decision.
        We go farther than that, and quite often.

        People think they can trust their memories, but that's a dangerous thing. It's been demonstrated over and over that we edit memories to fit our beliefs, and how we want others to view us.

        As an example, in the book "Quirkology," the author recounts an experiment in which people were told to trace the letter Q on their foreheads, and were videotaped doing it. When it was explained that pointing the 'tail' one way indicated a greater likelihood that you would easily lie, the people who had traced it that way 'remembered' having traced it the other.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          When it was explained that pointing the 'tail' one way indicated a greater likelihood that you would easily lie, the people who had traced it that way 'remembered' having traced it the other.
          The test seems flawed. Since they were told it meant they would lie, how much of that is the fungibility of memory... and how much of it is conformism?

          A better test would be to have people select their favourite colour from a short list, then trace the Q on their foreheads. After doing so, advise them that people who traced the Q with the tail pointing one way or the other are more likely to have chosen (say) green as their favourite colour.

          Then ask them to choose their favourite colour off the list again, and immediately ask whether it's the same choice they made last time. Those who change their answer and believe it's the same choice they made before are legitimately altering their memory of the situation. Those who change it and admit they changed it are conforming to expectations.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Caliban,
            The test seems flawed. Since they were told it meant they would lie, how much of that is the fungibility of memory... and how much of it is conformism?
            Knowing they were videotaped as they did it, by the people they were talking to? The latter seems less likely. There's much more to the guy's presentation than that example, by the way. He's spent a good chunk of his life studying deception.

            The mechanism for this internal editor is explained in some depth in Daniel Dennett's "Consciousness Explained."


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Caliban,Knowing they were videotaped as they did it, by the people they were talking to?
              Yes.

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              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Caliban,
                Yes.
                VERY different phenomenon. Those people are choosing their answers in advance, based on what others say. That's not the same thing as claiming to have done something opposite to what you were videotaped doing just minutes prior.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Roger,
                  I presume that you feel that it's a book that's worthy of a read? (Quirkology) Author = Richard Wiseman? Likewise 'Consciousness Explained'?
                  Quirkology - absolutely. It is interesting, practical, and a lot of fun.

                  'Consciousness Explained' is a remarkable work, but it's much slower going. I'd recommend it highly for folks with a direct interest in the subject for its own sake. Otherwise, not so much. Dennett does a good job making a nearly opaque subject interesting, but the nature of the material makes it more work than just leisure reading.


                  Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  That's not the same thing as claiming to have done something opposite to what you were videotaped doing just minutes prior.
                  Make up your mind.

                  Will people say something they know to be untrue if they're on camera, or not?

                  The Asch study says yes, they will. That may not be identical to the study you're describing, but it is EXACTLY what you are using to claim that my criticism of that study is inaccurate.

                  I can think of five different reasons people would say the opposite of what they were just videotaped doing. Go ahead, draw a Q on your forehead. Now stop and think.

                  1. Did you intend to draw it so it looked like a proper Q in the mirror... or to someone else looking at your forehead? This alters the definition of "right" and "left" altogether.

                  2. Did you succeed in drawing it that way, or did you draw it backwards? The videotape will reveal which way you actually drew it, which may not be what you intended.

                  3. Are you aware of whether you drew it correctly, or do you automatically assume that you have successfully done what you intended? Similarly, you could be mistaken. You may have intended to do one thing, actually done what you intended, and mistakenly thought you did it wrong.

                  4. Having been told what your action means, have you replaced your actual memory of the event with the one that matches your self-image? This is what the study claims to identify, but in reality we're nowhere near that: the variable is not independent.

                  5. Asked which action you took, did you factually report your awareness of your own actions, or did you report what you thought you should report? (Either "I am truthful" or "I am indeed a liar.")

                  So at the end of this study, we have learned precisely dick, because even though we have results of what the people who did something said they did - we have absolutely no indication of why they said that. We've learned nothing. The study is flawed.

                  And if this is your exemplar of the study, I can only assume there are similarly outrageous flaws in the other experimental methodologies. This experiment is worse than useless. It appears to mean something, but it doesn't mean anything. It's utter bullsquat.

                  Now, I do agree there are interesting things to be discovered from studies of this kind of behaviour. But this particular study has a massive hole in it, and that hole is confirmation bias. The experiment was conducted, the results were gathered, and behold! The results show precisely what we expected. That doesn't mean it's wrong... it just means we haven't proven anything, except that scientists sometimes conduct studies that prove nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Sure, you can do that all in one sentence
      NO. WRONG. BAD MARKETER.

      It's called "one sentence persuasion" because it only takes one sentence to EXPLAIN WHAT YOU NEED TO PERSUADE PEOPLE.

      You are NOT supposed to try and MAKE THE PERSUASION in one sentence. Ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Call me Melanie, if you like. That's my name

    Can I ask what underlying theory you base your statement upon? It's not that I necessarily disagree with the statement, but I'm interested in your point of view.
    It's how I conduct myself online, that's all. And I judge its effectiveness by the many emails I receive from my list.

    Granted, when I started out, all I was doing was trying to help. I didn't know what impact (if any) I'd have. I kept giving and giving to people on my list. The reward is primarily in their response.

    When I release my first product after my holidays, I hope it will be as helpful as all my free material (I believe it will be much more so).

    I'm not a hugely successful IMer. Just an ordinary gal who started a website three years ago, who has taken a long time to pluck up the courage to put something out there to sell.

    I haven't fully applied Blair's quote (I only discovered it fairly recently), but I've certainly encouraged dreams, allayed fears, and helped people throw rocks at their enemies at times...all with the primary desire of helping people.

    And thus far, no selling.

    I think I've been looking after the sheep. I hope they'll trust me with the wool.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Paul,

      but the nature of the material makes it more work than just leisure reading.
      What a delightfully considerate and courteous way of expressing what I was thinking as I looked at the cover on Amazon and considered the choice of title. I think I might struggle to finish that one

      The cover of the other one looks more like something that was written a little more for my particular ummm literary demographic

      Hi Melanie,

      It's how I conduct myself online, that's all. And I judge its effectiveness by the many emails I receive from my list.
      Ah, it came across as being stated as a bit of an absolute - (the 'you will be rewarded, whether you like it or not' bit.) I'm being picky, sorry.

      I've certainly encouraged dreams, allayed fears, and helped people throw rocks at their enemies at times...all with the primary desire of helping people.
      I hope you'll understand why I bring a bag of rocks to the forum in that case - I use them to try and help people :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Don't let ANYBODY tell you can't have the dream business that you've always wanted.

    You deserve it... and you CAN have it.

    It just takes going about things a little differently than you've done in the past. OK, maybe even a LOT differently - we're all guilty of goofing things up once in a while, right?

    The most important thing is to understand the TRUTH about how a successful business works... and I'll get into that in just a second.

    First, I want to make sure we're *absolutely crystal clear* about one thing...

    We are NOT talking about taking advantage of people unfairly.

    We're not talking about some slimy get rich quick scheme... and we're definitely not talking about getting wealthy at the expense of others.

    What we're talking about is something completely positive, for you... and for your customer.

    What were talking about is UNDERSTANDING.

    Understanding your customer as well as they know themselves - maybe even better than they know themselves. See, every single day we lie to ourselves.

    We tell ourselves little untruths that make us feel better in that moment. We all do it. It's not even our fault - we're somewhat hardwired that way.

    It's easier to buy a new product, course or tool than it is to simply work with what we've got right now.

    It's easier to pin our hopes and dreams on something external... something outside of ourselves and wait for that "thing" to work its magic on us - to transport us from where we are to some other space where things are just the way we'd like them to be.

    It's easier to postpone taking risks... because it feels safer doing NOTHING than doing the wrong thing.

    The fact of the matter is that FEAR is a powerfully dominant emotion - it's what keeps us alive for crying out loud!

    Fear is a challenge... and with every challenge comes the measuring of risk versus opportunity. Cost versus reward...

    Well here's the opportunity - fear is like a waterfall.. when it's in front of you, it's imposing. But it's also temporary - pushing through it is usually quick and relatively painless.

    And right on the other side of that fear, are all the rewards we want for ourselves...

    More time... more money... more FREEDOM.

    The trick is to UNDERSTAND fear for what it is... to be conscious of it... and catch ourselves, to course correct at we observe ourselves reacting to it.

    Just like bouncing a basketball cannot help but make you a better dribbler, getting really honest with ourselves gets easier and easier each time we do it.

    If you've ever felt like everybody else is raking in bucketloads of cash, while you struggle to get people to even pay attention...

    If you've ever worked your butt off on a project... then left it 95% complete on your hard drive, collecting digital dust...

    If you've ever felt like somebody or something sabotages all your best laid plans and hard work...

    ...YOU'RE RIGHT!

    It's YOU... specifically its you believing your thoughts.

    "We have met the enemy... and he is us."

    Here's how to drop-kick paralyzing fear and negative expectation forever:

    Imagine that your fear and your negative self-talk patterns are a PERSON. Picture the person in your mind... give him or her a name.

    "Whoop... there goes Nervous Nelly again... Walter the Worrywart is at it again..."

    Imagine you standing toe to toe with Nelly or Walter... and laughing in their face.

    Roll your eyes at Nelly. Tell Walter he's a WUSS!

    And get on with creating the business and the life you deserve to be living. Whatever it is that you've been putting off or procrastinating on... whatever it is that you LOATHE the idea of doing and avoid at all costs... Whatever that is - DO IT IMMEDiATELY or GIVE IT UP FOREVER.

    In poker, they call it "going All-In..." - push your chips out and take ACTION.

    Seize the power that the lingering fear and doubt has over you!

    Because guess what will happen?

    If things work they way you hope, you will experience an absolutely addictive pride and feeling of accomplishment...

    And if things don't go so well? It's almost NEVER as bad as we convince ourselves it will be. Usually, it's just a momentary speedbump in our forward progress...

    ((( SCREECHING HALT )))

    Encourage their dreams...
    Justify their failures...
    Allay their fears...
    Confirm their suspicions...
    Throw rocks at common enemies...

    It's all in there.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Very well written, Brian... I actually found myself smiling as I read it...

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Roger,

    To clarify, my niche is healthy eating and weight loss related.

    I help my people throw rocks at fad diets!

    I hope you'll understand why I bring a bag of rocks to the forum in that case - I use them to try and help people
    This discussion has, thus far, been very helpful. Thank you for having the courage to stand up for what you believe. Especially when it means challenging a statement which is usually swallowed with little thought (it appears).
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Jay,
    more like an assignment
    An excellent way to describe it.


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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi Steven,

    I think too many people look at sales as an absolute in one direction or the other when in actuality, we are all different and therefor have different needs and respond to different things.
    * ice breaker

    *probing questions     (noting hot buttons)

    * (choose ideal product to present) then - feature/advantage/benefit (based on hot buttons, plus gaining positive confirmation ('yes')

    * objection-handling/closing

    * 'thanks for the order'

    My point - the probing questions establish which criteria matter to that particular prospect regarding the suit/product.

    So even retail, sometimes you need some sort of persuasion, even if it's in the way the product is packaged.

    Take a cereal line targeted to people who are looking to stay regular.
    Perhaps that's another of my not-so-ideal analogies. But if we consider that the manufacturer has already done the presale, then it might not be necessary for the retailer to use any persuasion - which is precisely why I chose retail as the example.

    Hi Robert,

    Intent is the deciding factor not the premiss
    Could you elaborate on that a bit more for me please, or expand on how it relates to the point, as I'm struggling a bit on that one - thanks.

    Hi Paul,

    Thanks again.

    Hi Melanie,

    Especially when it means challenging a statement which is usually swallowed with little thought
    As a top top online dietician, I would expect nothing less from you than to throw rocks at people who 'swallow with little thought'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Bob,Umm... What Roger are you talking about? ExRat doesn't try to make decisions for anyone else. Not that I've ever seen. He expresses opinions on how he thinks things ought to be done, but to enforce those opinions?

    Nah. You've got the wrong guy...


    Paul
    Its why I said
    to many people try to make decisions for other people, either in their marketing (people cant afford it) or in their philophesy like Roger
    No where did i say he enforces, but His reactions to the statement (his philophesy)

    If you have a lever to persuade like Blair offers... why be concerned about whether its right for the customer or not? That's for them to decide, not you or I.
    Was that it was wrong because

    Think about the weak, vulnerable, young, naive etc - and the products that are marketed to them and how they are marketed. There is a line that is easily crossed - we see it all around us every day.
    If you truly believe your product will have a positive effect then not using the leverage is the true negative response.

    As a copy writer yourself, you know that emotions are the strings we pluck to make sales.

    The line may get crossed, but that doesnt detract from the statement made Paul, if you have the emotional lever/trigger to sell your wares then you should use it/them

    Hence my argument its the intent with which the leverage is used not the premiss

    Robert

    PS: I dont think Roger is a bad guy, on the contrary, we have met and had a beer together. I quite like him. :0

    Just he has this tendancy to feel that marketers who use the full power of persuasion are part of the problem, which irks me occassionally
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Robert,

      I'm still confused.

      What Richard said -

      If you have a lever to persuade like Blair offers... why be concerned about whether its right for the customer or not? That's for them to decide, not you or I.
      ...is quite different to what you are saying here -

      If you truly believe your product will have a positive effect then not using the leverage is the true negative response.
      My response (about the 'weak, vulnerable') which you are quoting was in response to Richard. If you apply it to your quote (above) it's out of context, is it not?

      I quite like him. :0
      High praise indeed I appreciate the effort it probably took to make that statement...for the record, the feeling is mutual :0

      Just he has this tendancy to feel that marketers who use the full power of persuasion are part of the problem, which irks me occassionally
      You know full well that the qualifier I use is 'when they cross the line' - I admire the full power of persuasion, as long as it's used within the boundaries of social conscience.

      Edit -

      Just had an epitomy
      Was that a frontal-epitomy? Sounds like some kind of operation. Not meaning to be picky, but I think you meant epiphany? Lol.

      write the copy and use the lever to do whats best for you the seller

      create the product to do whats best for the customer

      Hows that Roger?
      That's pretty damned good (obviously as long as 'what's best for the seller' doesn't include stuff like hidden continuity). I'd go with the Myerism though -

      Something along the lines of 'sell them what they want, slip in what they need.' Paul?
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      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Something along the lines of 'sell them what they want, slip in what they need.' Paul?
        Sell them what they want,
        Give them what you sold them,
        Slip in what they need.

        - Paul Myers

        Errr... I think

        Laterz Peeps

        Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Just had an epitomy

    How about his as a 2 line explanation of what i was trying to say

    write the copy and use the lever to do whats best for you the seller

    create the product to do whats best for the customer

    Hows that Roger?

    Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author Jordan JD
    Originally Posted by Joel View Post

    "People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies" quoted from Blair Warren.

    Are your sales & marketing efforts aligned with the above?
    Is that really it?

    Is there anything else that should be added?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Originally Posted by Joel View Post

    "People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies" quoted from Blair Warren.

    Are your sales & marketing efforts aligned with the above?
    Hmmm, lemme see...yup.
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  • Profile picture of the author Winlin
    Originally Posted by StedeTroisi View Post

    Wonderful quote, but is it ethical?
    Good question... I think the answers lies in who is looking back when you peer into a mirror.

    You get to make that decision...
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