16 replies
I see a couple of threads today asking the question, "Is this ethical...?"

We all have different ethics and you cannot operate off of those of others. You know what is right or ethical by now. And, what is not.

If you are uncomfortable enough to as the question, then your answer is no. It is not ethical in your mind, the mind that counts. So, don't do it. To search the Warrior forum for someone who would do it, makes no sense. There are some here that would stop at nothing to make a buck.

You will accumulate opinions galore, but to hope for someone who would do what you already feel is "uncomfortable" to you is not the solution. What if someone who is unethical advises you.

Trust your own mind.
Alton
#ethical #ethics
  • Profile picture of the author Ted Kopelli
    Ethical, in my opinion is if you let the truth behind the scenario be known, and you still have the respect of the affected party, then it is ethical.

    Ted
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Currie
    Alton,

    You are right on the money here. I think that some how the people that are unethical are trying to justifiy what they are doing by finding likeminded people. No matter how you slice it, unethical is still unethical.
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    • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
      I'm with Paul on this one.

      In some instances it's like asking if it's ethical to kiss a Mafia Dons' daughter on the first date.

      There is no right or wrong answer, but your life may hang in the balance.

      Sort of like holding a sea shell up to your ear and listening for the voice of experience.

      KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
    Recently, at the junior college I attended for one year back in 1973, the school was giving a class on ethics. After a short time, they realized that their are some things you just can't teach. Ethics is one of them. Either you got it or you don't.

    The class closed.

    Good night!
    Alton
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    Alton, I agree with everything you said except this line: "If you are uncomfortable enough to as the question, then your answer is no."

    I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for opinions, and just because you feel the urge to ask doesn't mean the idea is wrong or unethical.

    The problem with ethics discussions here, like you said, is that people don't agree on what is and isn't, so at best all you get is a bunch of opinions. It's not like a field such as medicine or law where there is an official code of ethics.

    I also see some people say "X is unethical" in one thread, then when some marketer they admire does X, the same person will have no problem with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    IM and Ethics,

    guys you opened a can of worms!

    There are so many aspects of marketing which could be considered "unethical", i dont even know where to begin.

    One example: If someone makes a typical "weight loss blog"....trying to sell, well, you guess it, weight loss products.

    If someone writes and submits articles, about weight loss, with the intention to earn some money using some affiliate program - and HARDLY with the intention to really care about overweight people

    If you make a blog, submit an article, make a site. What is YOUR intention? Do you really care about Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Acne, World of Warcraft Levelling, Weightloss...etc..etc...

    We want people click on ads....if we were "ethical" and everyone a mother theresa we would turn our heads in disgust...we would delete all the blogs which are mainly for selling something, we would delete all "reviews in favor of some products" (to sell them)...we would delete all ads on our web sites since everyone knows ads are ugly and noone likes them....we would feel bad for the visitors. Not to mention pop-ups and similar.



    We would be more "ethical"...yes...but also out of business!

    I think you get the idea...

    G.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
    I think that by the time someone is old enough to drive a car and post on this forum, their ethics are already established in their own mind. If they have any.

    To do something that feels unethical because someone else says it is okay is...unethical to me.

    But, that is just my opinion. Is this a bad opinion? Should I change my opinion? What do you guys think? LOL

    Thanks,
    Alton
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Hi Alton,

    I agree with your point about "if you have to ask".

    Some responses mention that maybe people making posts about ethics are looking for opinions, but I think there is one other thing they are looking for...

    Justification.

    Because, if they deep down know the answer, then the other reason is to get an "opinion" from someone else that will give them an excuse for saying the unethical behavior is now okay.

    Hope that makes sense.

    ~Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Hi Alton,

      I agree with your point about "if you have to ask".

      Some responses mention that maybe people making posts about ethics are looking for opinions, but I think there is one other thing they are looking for...

      Justification.

      Because, if they deep down know the answer, then the other reason is to get an "opinion" from someone else that will give them an excuse for saying the unethical behavior is now okay.

      Hope that makes sense.

      ~Michael
      You said it better than I, justification is what they really want.
      Thanks Mike,
      Alton
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      • Profile picture of the author kumar
        or probably, it could be a simple case of a newbie wanting to make sure he is doing all the right things. For eg: Should he give a stumble 'thumbs up' on a thousand sites which he could then use to drive traffic on his own websites or not do it because in a pure sense, stumble may not be meant for this. Something on the same lines would be where to draw a line between blackhat and whitehat methods.

        By the way, I am myself a newbie, so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
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        • Profile picture of the author Alton Hargrave
          We are all trying to sell something. Oddly, there are some people that feel like it is wrong (unethical) to sell something for more than they paid for it. They will struggle with this as they go about their business of selling.

          There are all kinds of customers too. Some are appreciative and easy to deal with while some others try to make you feel guilty for making money off of them. When selling, you have to be able to deal with this.

          Some of the noisiest complaining customers are, in fact, sales people themselves. They may work at Wal-Mart, the local car dealership, or fast food eatery.

          A few years ago, Christmas Barbies were hot, so I bought about 10 of them as soon as they came out. I paid about 25 dollars each for them and hoped to get twice that amount as the holidays progressed. One night, I watched a news story on television about what I was doing.

          The story was laid out like some crime was being committed. People were buying up the dolls and selling them for more than they paid for them! Outrageous they said! Was this unethical to me? No. I was just trying to think ahead and make money on a product. No different than selling a car or sandwich at a profit.

          As it turned out, the toy manufacturer looked ahead too. They cranked out so many dolls that there never was a shortage as in previous years. And, I was hard pressed to even make my money back. No profit. Was this unethical for the toy maker? Of course not. Just looking ahead and trying to make more money.

          But, the media told the story from the position that is was unethical, and many people just fell right in there and believed that view.

          So, what is ethical to some is completely wrong to others. You can and should listen to the other guy's reasoning. But, if you still don't feel right about it, stay with your own feelings. Any time you commit an act you are uncomfortable with, and things go awry, you can only blame yourself. And, criticism from your own self is harder to take than that of others.

          Thanks,
          Alton
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg Cooksley
            Hey Alton,

            For the most part, I agree with what you have said and in the
            same breath, I agree with some of the other viewpoints as well.

            It is a well known fact, both socially and biblically, that the
            foundations for a child's character/personality/belief systems
            are entrenched by the age of 7 years old. So you are correct,
            intrinsically, a person knows what is right and wrong.

            However, we are encouraged to surround ourselves with people
            who have wisdom, especially when making important decisions.
            It's great to get a variety of opinions in an environment of
            trust and respect (like mentor and mentoree).

            So if you are faced with a difficult scenario and you are fortunate
            to have people around you who can give valued advice, then that's
            great.

            But simply asking a bunch of random people to help you justify,
            what is possibly a suspect idea, it is what it is - suspect!!!!

            My $5's worth......

            Regards

            Greg
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  • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
    Sure I have my own code of ethics, but it also helps to get the opinions of others to weigh things in my mind. It's not about needing justification, it's a great step in the process of determining how one actually does feel about something. Many Warriors are a good barometer of what's right and wrong, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask about ethics in business on this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Careygee
    Correct me if I am wrong .....
    but I think the word should be "Integrity"

    IMO this word entails all others and is a person's built in and learned
    honor system.

    People are said to have integrity to the extent that they behave according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to hold.

    Your value system may evolve over time while retaining integrity if inconsistencies are accounted for and resolved.

    Hypocrisy results when one part of a value system is demonstrably at odds with another and the person or group of people holding those values fails to account for the discrepancy.
    Hypocrisy is considered to be the opposite of integrity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg Cooksley
      Originally Posted by Careygee View Post

      Correct me if I am wrong .....
      but I think the word should be "Integrity"

      IMO this word entails all others and is a person's built in and
      learned
      honor system.

      People are said to have integrity to the extent that they behave
      according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to
      hold.

      Your value system may evolve over time while retaining integrity
      if inconsistencies are accounted for and resolved.

      Hypocrisy results when one part of a value system is demonstrably
      at odds with another and the person or group of people holding
      those values fails to account for the discrepancy.
      Hypocrisy is considered to be the opposite of integrity.
      Hey Carey,

      I love that word - INTEGRITY....

      I agree with you - it's when someone actually knows what's right
      and yet deliberately ignores their inner voice and does the opposite.

      It particularly happens when money is concerned don't you think...

      Regards

      Greg
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      • Profile picture of the author howudoin
        Originally Posted by Greg Cooksley View Post

        Hey Carey,

        I love that word - INTEGRITY....

        I agree with you - it's when someone actually knows what's right
        and yet deliberately ignores their inner voice and does the opposite.

        It particularly happens when money is concerned don't you think...

        Regards

        Greg
        Thats bang on target greg!

        Money sometime makes a person to compromise on their INTEGRITY and makes them do just the opposite of what they think is Right.

        Coming to the original question of Ethics....

        The anonymity of internet makes easy for anyone to have double standards without claiming responsibility. I guess its good that people are coming up with these "Ethical posts" so as to know the accepted practices of the trade.

        The more we get along with each other on ethics, less would be the intervention from outsiders (Think Congress passing CAN-SPAM) by imposing ethics on the IM community.

        Just my 2 cents....

        Regards
        Bhupinder
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