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Want to know why you can't make money online?

by Chris W. Sutton
98 replies
Okay, I am going to dish out a little bit of tough love here. I WANT you to succeed online and I want you to have the best in life. Having said that...

I was looking thought the WSOs and I saw the same recurrent theme in a lot of threads. A lot of the same questions were asked over and over...

"Does this have anything to do with bum marketing?"

"How long will it take before I start seeing money coming in?"

"Will I have to write articles?"

"How much time will I have to put into it?"

"Will I still be able to wear Granny's pantaloons and still be able to do this?" {EDIT: ASKING QUESTIONS IS A GOOD THING! I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T ASK QUESTIONS. I AM SAYING THAT IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL, YOU FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF THE PEOPLE I AM REFERING TO IN THIS THREAD}

If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway! My question to you is, "What does it matter?" Do you want to make money or not? It is apparent to me that a lot of your "want to" is overridden by your "have to" and that just won't cut it.

THIS is why a lot of you here in the WF WILL NEVER become successful online. Yes, I said it, you WILL NEVER become successful; not online, not anywhere. You will continue to work at your minimum wage jobs, working 12 hours a day, living from paycheck-to-paycheck and at the end of the month, you will STILL have more bills than paycheck. AND IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!

You don't have the gumption to better yourself. You don't have the willpower to do what is needed. You don't have the intestinal fortitude to suck it up and do what it takes to become successful. Why? Because it might cause you to have to do something that might be too hard. You work 12 hours a day but you're worried it might take up too much of your time to do what is needed to become successful. Why should that bother the rest of us? Well, let me tell you why!

You buy MY product to teach you how to make a living online. You read 4 or 5 pages and then you move on to the next thing. When someone asks you about MY product, you tell them, "Oh yeah, I bought that and it was a waste of money. I didn't make a single dime with it!" And THEN you come to the WF and you wonder why all the "gurus" don't have time for the new people. You wonder why all the "gurus" are jaded! You complain about the "gurus" and you align yourself against them because all they want is to take your money selling worthless products that never work. Well, my friend, it is YOU that doesn't work!

Consider this, if the WF consisted only of experienced people and new people who were willing to do whatever it took to make money online, I guarantee you that EVERY new person in that forum would be making very good money within the year... or much sooner!

Let's not mince words here... if you are one of those people I am talking about who don't know how to do anything but whine, complain and find fault, you are a drain on the time and resources of the people in this forum and you are stealing the resources from the people who legitimately want to make a living online. I would tell you to not let the door hit you in the butt on your way out but I know you won't leave. Why? Because you are angry at the world and you want everyone else to be. You came from a dysfunctional family and it's hard to overcome that. Well, guess what? I came from a dysfunctional family too. I KNOW how hard it is but you either suck it up and do what is needed or you just shut up. People LOVE an overcomer but they abhore a whiner and complainer.

I am a transplanted Texan living in the state of Oregon and I am an avid Oregon Duck fan. You can't mention the Oregon Ducks without adding in Phil Knight because his generousity is what haS made the U of O what it is today. Who is Phil Knight? He is the founder of Nike and probably the largest donor in the history of the University of Oregon. Nike has a slongan that each and every person reading this could take to heart and better themselves immensely. It goes like this... JUST DO IT!

Oh, by the way, have a great day, you hear?
#make #money #online
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    Absolutely, you have to find something you enjoy doing. And sometimes there are ways to turn boring tasks into fun through your own genius. Each person is different, but sometimes something as simple as listening to music while you work can make it more enjoyable. The main caution I would have for people is part of life is learning how to enjoy it, and as the OP points out it helps to have a desire to enjoy it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    Absolutely right Chris...read, act and create your own detailed system that will make your business growing. Spend time on potential money making. Keep all the tools that could help you and throw away those tools that make your business delayed. Improve yourself, improve your system. Think of a problem that many people are shouting to grab it then create a solution. Think ahead.
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  • Profile picture of the author sanhal
    It's hard work making money online. I don't know where they get the idea from that it's easy. Maybe they have read all these get rich quick sales pages and ads and think that they can get rich overnight.

    Almost everyone who has made money online had to work at it. They chose a niche and stuck to it to make it work. So many people get distracted and go off at a tangent before they get the first thing going properly.

    There is plenty of free training around now so it's not to difficult to get started.

    Sandy
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by sanhal View Post

      It's hard work making money online. I don't know where they get the idea from that it's easy.
      Sandy
      They get it from the sales pages telling them it.

      There are a lot of newbies that come here trying to sell that same dream to others - even when they haven't been successful themselves.

      People want to hear that it's quick and easy to make money - so they gravitate to anything that seems to say the same thing.

      People post here every day telling others what to do to be successful when they're not successful themselves.

      The stories get told and retold to the point where people that haven't found success start to kid themselves that they could if they wanted to but they're just not that bothered. They honestly think they know what works but don't do it themselves.

      So we end up with a forum packed with people all kidding themselves and each other that it's easy to tell others how to make money. They'll even think of ideas that they think might work and create a WSO selling it saying that it does work.

      It's all about egos, beliefs and lies.

      It's the crazy merry-go-round of IM that newbies often get stuck on and end up thinking they know everything but wondering why they just don't seem to be successful even though they know all about how to be.

      It's like a fat person understanding dieting and telling everyone all about the medical facts but they're still eating chocolate and putting on weight.

      So it's a vicious circle where even people that are failing come to the forum and pretend to be successful and encourage others to believe the same lies they've told themselves.

      The best thing anyone new to IM can do is ignore everything other people say about what works and test everything for themselves.

      Andy
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        They'll even think of ideas that they think might work and create a WSO selling it saying that it does work.

        Andy
        QFT..........
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris McDonald Online
    Now THAT...is an awesome post!

    Thank you Sir, and well said!
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  • Profile picture of the author jdsypolt
    Excellent post. I think one problem for newbies is that there are so many offers, ebooks, systems, etc. that tell people what to do to make money online, that many get confused and start wandering off in many different directions with no focus on any particular way to build their online business.

    I would add to the suggestions above that you have to be focused on completing one system and then add on to those techniques slowly. Keep track of what you are doing and set up a schedule to focus on a single aspect of your business each day.

    It's hard work, yes. But, again, if you don't want to put forth the effort, as Chris says, then you will absolutely never make any money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Chris I'm surprised your thread hasnt gotten more replies yet...this is a huge wake up call and is so true.

    Stop being a bunch of cry babies and do some bloody work! Forget what those gurus say about it being easy....they just want to sell as much as they can obviously.........

    Its not easy and yes it will take lots of work but surely it beats having a 9 to 5 job!

    Like Chris said...follow a system you think you will enjoy and have the time to implement and then do it! It takes months to get a respectable income, might even take a year or more! So f'n what!? Do you want to be a successful Internet Marketer or not? Or do you want to keep crying and working as a slave for your boss?

    Let me tell you something I have been trying this for 5+ years yet I never gave up because this is my dream! Today I have made made a new record...and had mhy highest day ever from Adsense

    Remember this.....If you dont live and breath Internet Marketing well all I will say is good luck and dont let the door hit you on the way out, because you wont get far.

    You need to focus and do work and stop watching tv, stop going on facebook, stop ringing people on your mobile/cell phone and heck stop sleeping as much - believe me you aint gonna die! If you have any type of dream and are making small steps towards it...you wont able to bloody sleep, you will think about your business 24/7 and actually get up from bed even though you only had 5 hrs sleep and you will go on your computer and do more work to reach your goal earlier..because you finally have a taste of sucess!

    Do some work everyday then each month evaluate your results - you will be pleasantly surprised.

    Think about it like this...how has your lazy approach been working for you? Not good right? Well do the opposite to what you have been doing and you might actually see some results you're happy with!
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    • Profile picture of the author inter123
      Interesting stuff. Thanks!

      How long should one be doing this before starting to make say $100 a day?
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    • Profile picture of the author JimmyS
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      Chris I'm surprised your thread hasnt gotten more replies yet...this is a huge wake up call and is so true.

      Stop being a bunch of cry babies and do some bloody work! Forget what those gurus say about it being easy....they just want to sell as much as they can obviously.........

      Its not easy and yes it will take lots of work but surely it beats having a 9 to 5 job!

      Like Chris said...follow a system you think you will enjoy and have the time to implement and then do it! It takes months to get a respectable income, might even take a year or more!

      Yes, I agree with him. I stop jumping from one strategy to another, its not really wise. I stopped doing that and focused first on enhancing one strategy before exploring another method. I found out that there is no learning in jumping from one strategy to another. Why? because you never get the chance to finish something with that mentality. You never get the chance to explore every aspect of that method. So don't get envious when somebody says "hey this method works". I'm sure their method also work but changing your plans and methods suddenly will take you back to square one instead of the finishing line.

      Don't be hasty in making money. I don't know about the other warriors here but patience is the virtue that I'm sticking with.
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      • Profile picture of the author morningmouse
        Great info! Thanks! I personally think that time factor is important to succeed in Internet Marketing. Able to identify niche sector.product fast.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Oh my...I have so much to say, I don't even know where to begin.

        @Chris

        I completely understand what you were trying to say and agree with it.
        Problem is, the way the post was worded, it did paint a very broad picture
        which isn't fair to Jane Doe who is a stay at home mom with 3 kids, has
        laundry, cleaning, shopping and God knows what besides it to do and only
        has 2 hours in her day to work on any kind of a business. I truly feel for
        those people and quite honestly, if they asked me those questions and
        explained why, I'd probably answer something like this.

        "Jane, with all you have to do already, you will probably find it very
        difficult to get any kind of momentum going. I strongly suggest maybe you
        wait until you have more time."

        So I can see why some people are taking exception to what you said. It
        was the way in which you said it and how you really didn't make for any
        exceptions. That really isn't fair. And yes, I did read your post multiple
        times and didn't see any exceptions noted.

        Having said that, I know exactly what you mean. Without mentioning
        anything in particular (don't want to make this the least self promotional)
        somewhere online somebody made a comment about one of my products
        that it took "too much work" and started bitching about that.

        Believe me, I understand the mentality you're talking about. I run into
        it every single day and it makes me sick. But some people truly just don't
        have a lot of time and need to know if it's something they can do in 2
        hours a day.

        Truth is, and this is where a lot of marketers have to take the blame,
        nothing in this business can be done in 2 hours a day and when they
        give answers like "Oh sure, no problem", they're doing the prospect a
        disservice and giving this industry yet another black eye.

        Sorry, but having seen so much deceit and greed in this business, I see
        both sides of it.

        Truth is, right now given that I don't want to put in the kind of hours I
        used to (and thank God I don't have to) the first question I would ask if
        somebody came to me and said "Hey, you could make some really good
        money doing xyz" is...

        "How many hours a day will I have to put into it?"

        And for a totally different reason. I've paid my dues. I've had my success
        and I don't want to bust my ass anymore.

        Again, I know you were referring only to those lazy SOBs who want
        everything handed to them, but that's not the way the post came
        across. Your one statement "If you have to ask those questions" is
        really what has caused all the ruckus because it just lumped everybody
        together regardless of their circumstances.

        I hope you will take this reply in the spirit in which it was intended. I
        agree with the sentiment behind the post.

        It just could have been expressed more clearly to make it clear that
        you were only referring to those people who don't want to work under
        any circumstances and not because they do have other responsibilities
        that might keep them from putting in the time needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author psresearch
    Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

    It is apparent to me that a lot of your "want to" is overridden by your "have to" and that just won't cut it.
    This is one of the greatest observations (and ways of putting it) I've heard in a LONG time.

    Awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author jaequery
    it's refreshing to see a post like this, now it makes WF seem a bit more genuine!
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  • Profile picture of the author waltermulder
    The "how" is more important than the "why"
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  • Profile picture of the author joshril
    Great post and sooo true!! I'm also a transplanted Texan living in Oregon!

    Just do it! Good stuff!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by joshril View Post

      Great post and sooo true!! I'm also a transplanted Texan living in Oregon!
      OMG, it's an epidemic! Just like the killer bees, they're slowly migrating north!
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        There are a couple of things that are easy about starting an online business.

        If you don't have a product, you can find a ready made one to sell.

        If you don't know how to build a website, people will gladly let you start one their site.

        There are huge amounts of people all searching on the internet every day to find solutions to their problems.

        But those are the easy parts about STARTING a business.

        Making your business profitable is another story.
        Knowing how to get enough people to your website is another story.
        Understanding which parts of your business you need to keep doing while getting help for the other parts is another story.

        Many of the posts I read here sound like folks who come from the world of the "Start your own saw-sharpening business today" ads from teh backs of opportunity magazines. I might be wrong about that, but it sounds that way.

        The only way to start a business is to start. After you have done that, you can adjust, trim the sails, follow a different direction or a lot of other things. But if you never start, you will never have a business to work with.
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  • Profile picture of the author RossVegas
    Very true Chris, thanks for the insight.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

    A lot of the same questions were asked over and over...
    You know, as I think about this, I sort of wonder.

    What kind of idiot makes an investment without knowing how much time and money he's going to put into it, what he's realistically going to get out of it, and when he can expect to see a return?

    I mean, honestly, those are legitimate questions anyone should be asking. So why aren't they answered in the sales copy, and why does it reflect negatively on someone if they ask them?
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

      A lot of the same questions were asked over and over...
      Well, one thing at a time. I'm very happy to see people are finally really asking questions.
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    • Profile picture of the author jdenc
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      You know, as I think about this, I sort of wonder.

      What kind of idiot makes an investment without knowing how much time and money he's going to put into it, what he's realistically going to get out of it, and when he can expect to see a return?

      I mean, honestly, those are legitimate questions anyone should be asking. So why aren't they answered in the sales copy, and why does it reflect negatively on someone if they ask them?
      Exactly. It's called due diligence. Maybe they aren't good writers. Does it make sense to buy something heavily reliant on writing if you aren't at least OK at it? No it really doesn't.

      That wasn't tough love it was ridiculous.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
        Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

        Exactly. It's called due diligence. Maybe they aren't good writers. Does it make sense to buy something heavily reliant on writing if you aren't at least OK at it? No it really doesn't.

        That wasn't tough love it was ridiculous.
        So are you saying that these people aren't able to LEARN to write articles? If they have some sort of handicap, I can certainly understand that. Maybe you are saying that all those people I am talking about have handicaps?

        I just love it when somebody can't make money online because they are trying to use "due diligence"! Just another excuse!

        You think that was ridiculous? No, my friend, what is "ridiculous" are all the excuses people use to justify the fact that they want something without having to put forth the effort that is required to get it. THAT is ridiculous!!!
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        • Profile picture of the author jdenc
          Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

          So are you saying that these people aren't able to LEARN to write articles? If they have some sort of handicap, I can certainly understand that. Maybe you are saying that all those people I am talking about have handicaps?

          I just love it when somebody can't make money online because they are trying to use "due diligence"! Just another excuse!

          You think that was ridiculous? No, my friend, what is "ridiculous" are all the excuses people use to justify the fact that they want something without having to put forth the effort that is required to get it. THAT is ridiculous!!!
          Almost as ridiculous as all the WSOs promising them pretty much exactly that wouldn't you say?

          When do we attack those sellers by the way? Like to see some tough love going that way. But I never ever do.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
            Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

            Almost as ridiculous as all the WSOs promising them pretty much exactly that wouldn't you say?

            When do we attack those sellers by the way? Like to see some tough love going that way. But I never ever do.
            Once again, this is thread is NOT about WSOs promising anything. This thread is NOT about attacking sellers.

            Might I suggest that if you have a problem with those subjects, you go start a thread about them. I can promise you that you won't see ME make a post in there.
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        • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
          Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

          So are you saying that these people aren't able to LEARN to write articles? If they have some sort of handicap, I can certainly understand that. Maybe you are saying that all those people I am talking about have handicaps?

          I just love it when somebody can't make money online because they are trying to use "due diligence"! Just another excuse!

          You think that was ridiculous? No, my friend, what is "ridiculous" are all the excuses people use to justify the fact that they want something without having to put forth the effort that is required to get it. THAT is ridiculous!!!
          Bravo to everything you've written, Chris. A shining example of what CAN be done comes to mind.

          I have a friend from Indonesia. He started online a couple of years ago and was asking if it was possible for him to make money online, despite English being his second language. He asked the question -- which is completely okay and expect of a "newbie.'

          It's what he did after that that matters. He now has his own products and is doing very well for himself Others might have asked that question, accepted that it would be "too hard" and given up.

          Your success is what you dream up and accept as reality.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
            I hope you will take this reply in the spirit in which it was intended. I agree with the sentiment behind the post.
            Steven, I have no problem with your post! The only thing I might says is this... YOU understood exactly what I was trying to say as did most of the other responders. Out of all I said in that post, one small portion was taken out of context and used to say something totally different. You can't take just a piece of post without looking at the whole thing. Those that do are just looking to argue or stir controversy to sell their product.

            I have edited the original post to clarify what I was saying. It won't matter much because people who like to argue just like to argue.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post


              I have edited the original post to clarify what I was saying. It won't matter much because people who like to argue just like to argue.
              That, my friend, I can't argue with. Yes, some people, if you tell them the
              sky is blue, they'll say it's red just to give you a hard time.

              I think they call it human nature.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                That, my friend, I can't argue with. Yes, some people, if you tell them the
                sky is blue, they'll say it's red just to give you a hard time.

                I think they call it human nature.
                Yes Steve, human nature uncontrolled and a bit of a rebel rearing it's ugly head, perhaps?

                Anyway, whatever you're looking for, you'll find it. If you're looking for something to disagree with, there it is!

                If you're looking for something to agree with, there it is!

                If you're looking for information to glean, there it is!

                If you're looking for some one to put down to make yourself look better, aha! There he is!

                As I said, whatever your focus is, you'll find it.

                Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author vortrail
        I was that idiot. I spent £3,700 on an internet storebuilding package after going to a Stores online seminar. I then chose what I thought was a niche (sterling silver jewellery!) and made nothing for 9 months. I was naive and got caught up in the hype about making money, so I see what the newbies might not. It is not easy, it requires hard work with little reward at least in the beginning, but with persistence and proper planning and adjustments, things can improve.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      You know, as I think about this, I sort of wonder.

      What kind of idiot makes an investment without knowing how much time and money he's going to put into it, what he's realistically going to get out of it, and when he can expect to see a return?

      I mean, honestly, those are legitimate questions anyone should be asking. So why aren't they answered in the sales copy, and why does it reflect negatively on someone if they ask them?
      The problem is NOT with the questions they ask, it is with the motivation behind the questions. Let's not mix apples and oranges here.

      I have no problem with the questions they ask as long as they are asked to help in making an informed decision. I DO have a problem with those questions if they are asked because they are worried about how much they might have to do or what they may have to do. I also have a problem with statements like...

      "I don't know how to write articles!"
      "I don't like to make cold call!"
      "I don't have the time to... "

      I guess these people think brain surgeons are BORN knowing how to preform brain surgery! I guess it might be too stressful to call someone you don't know well! I won't even comment on the third one.

      I guess it's like my old daddy used to say when someone wouldn't do whatever it took to accomplish what they wanted... "Well son, I guess they just ain't hurting bad enough!"
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      • Profile picture of the author jdenc
        Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

        The problem is NOT with the questions they ask, it is with the motivation behind the questions. Let's not mix apples and oranges here.

        I have no problem with the questions they ask as long as they are asked to help in making an informed decision. I DO have a problem with those questions if they are asked because they are worried about how much they might have to do or what they may have to do. I also have a problem with statements like...

        "I don't know how to write articles!"
        "I don't like to make cold call!"
        "I don't have the time to... "

        I guess these people think brain surgeons are BORN knowing how to preform brain surgery! I guess it might be too stressful to call someone you don't know well! I won't even comment on the third one.

        I guess it's like my old daddy used to say when someone wouldn't do whatever it took to accomplish what they wanted... "Well son, I guess they just ain't hurting bad enough!"
        If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway! My question to you is, "What does it matter?" Do you want to make money or not? It is apparent to me that a lot of your "want to" is overridden by your "have to" and that just won't cut it.
        That's what you said. BTW care to share your secret on how to tell someones motivation behind a question? ESP is a great sales tool I guess.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
          Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

          That's what you said. BTW care to share your secret on how to tell someones motivation behind a question? ESP is a great sales tool I guess.
          Mr/Mrs jdenc, I'm not sure what is motivating YOUR posts in this thread but, quite honestly, I just don't care! You have been in the WF for one month and you are already an authority on what is going on in here. I hate being rude and I certainly don't make a habit of it but I will make an exception just for you... I have to tell you that your opinion means absolutely squat to me.

          You will soon learn that you are building your reputation around here by the posts you make. I don't consider myself anything special but I will tell you this... I have EARNED my reputation in here for whatever that is worth. If you are just here to argue I need to tell you that I don't waste my time with people who just like to hear their own voices.

          If I have offended you, I apologize and that was not my intention but I try to say it like it is.
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          • Profile picture of the author jdenc
            Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

            Mr/Mrs jdenc, I'm not sure what is motivating YOUR posts in this thread but, quite honestly, I just don't care! You have been in the WF for one month and you are already an authority on what is going on in here. I hate being rude and I certainly don't make a habit of it but I will make an exception just for you... I have to tell you that your opinion means absolutely squat to me.

            You will soon learn that you are building your reputation around here by the posts you make. I don't consider myself anything special but I will tell you this... I have EARNED my reputation in here for whatever that is worth. If you are just here to argue I need to tell you that I don't waste my time with people who just like to hear their own voices.

            If I have offended you, I apologize and that was not my intention but I try to say it like it is.
            It's Mr if it matters. And I have been lurking much longer than a month. I joined when I was ready to get into the War Room after I spent a lot of time reading info here, getting a feel for things and seeing just how things work.

            And BTW I don't really care whether you like my opinion or not. Won't stop me from expressing it and I can't help but notice I am not the only one who seems to disagree with you. I guess he hasn't been here long enough yet either.

            Lastly I can't help but notice you didn't really answer my question as to how you know the motivations of everyone that asks questions and that they are destined to failure because they do. All you did was attack me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
              And BTW I don't really care whether you like my opinion or not. Won't stop me from expressing it and I can't help but notice I am not the only one who seems to disagree with you. I guess he hasn't been here long enough yet either.
              I have to admit that you are correct... Carlock also disagrees with it.

              Carlock, you surprise me. I know you tend to take the opposing view in a lot of threads but you make some intelligent observations. To see you take this thread and change it in the manner you did is not the usual for you.

              I have no idea who this other yahoo is but I try not to spend my time arguing with people who just like to argue. Consider yourself ignored from this point on.
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              • Profile picture of the author jdenc
                Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

                I have to admit that you are correct... Carlock also disagrees with it.

                Carlock, you surprise me. I know you tend to take the opposing view in a lot of threads but you make some intelligent observations. To see you take this thread and change it in the manner you did is not the usual for you.

                I have no idea who this other yahoo is but I try not to spend my time arguing with people who just like to argue. Consider yourself ignored from this point on.
                I disagree so I am arguing just argue? Whatever works for you. I am arguing because I think you painted with a really broad brush. And you still haven't answered my question. I guess it's easier to ignore me than to deal with the fact that you can't know their motivation or really anything about them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

              It's Mr if it matters. And I have been lurking much longer than a month. I joined when I was ready to get into the War Room after I spent a lot of time reading info here, getting a feel for things and seeing just how things work.

              And BTW I don't really care whether you like my opinion or not. Won't stop me from expressing it and I can't help but notice I am not the only one who seems to disagree with you. I guess he hasn't been here long enough yet either.

              Lastly I can't help but notice you didn't really answer my question as to how you know the motivations of everyone that asks questions and that they are destined to failure because they do. All you did was attack me.

              Maybe if people started to take Chris' advice those wso sellers, that you mention, would be out of business.

              Or maybe some of those wso sellers are telling the truth but most people cannot follow instructions. They start taking short cuts or changing things to the way they think it should be rather and then complain it didn't work and they were scammed.

              If you have been around here long enough you do see patterns. Stick around since you are so observant and learn for yourself.
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              • Profile picture of the author jdenc
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                Maybe if people started to take Chris' advice those wso sellers, that you mention, would be out of business.

                Or maybe some of those wso sellers are telling the truth but most people cannot follow instructions. They start taking short cuts or changing things to the way they think it should be rather and then complain it didn't work and they were scammed.

                If you have been around here long enough you do see patterns. Stick around since you are so observant and learn for yourself.
                I'm not going anywhere. I am sure some of those guys are telling the truth. I am sure some of the people buying are slackers who won't make it because of that. But it isn't everyone. And it certainly isn't everyone that asks a question about a WSO.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by jdenc View Post

                  I'm not going anywhere. I am sure some of those guys are telling the truth. I am sure some of the people buying are slackers who won't make it because of that. But it isn't everyone. And it certainly isn't everyone that asks a question about a WSO.

                  No, it isn't everyone. A large percentage of them are doing what Chris stated.

                  In fact, I have seen this is real estate investing as well when I talked to people at investing conferences and local meetings.
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      • Profile picture of the author ozduc
        You know Chris it's posts like these that is the main reason people fail. All that sugar coating going on there, why don't you actually tell it like it is, why gloss over the real reasons?:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

        I DO have a problem with those questions if they are asked because they are worried about how much they might have to do or what they may have to do.
        Why?

        Let's say I have a full-time job and a lengthy commute. I'm out of the house twelve to fourteen hours a day. That leaves me about two to four hours a day to do your system. Of course I'm worried about how much I have to do and what it is. I only have so much time, and I've been working all day so I'm freakin' tired.

        And you're going to look down on me for that?
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Why?

          Let's say I have a full-time job and a lengthy commute. I'm out of the house twelve to fourteen hours a day. That leaves me about two to four hours a day to do your system. Of course I'm worried about how much I have to do and what it is. I only have so much time, and I've been working all day so I'm freakin' tired.

          And you're going to look down on me for that?
          Okay, I guess I must be missing something. This whole post was about those people who are too lazy and unmotivated to do what it takes to become successful online. Are you taking up for them or what?
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

            This whole post was about those people who are too lazy and unmotivated to do what it takes to become successful online.
            Actually, it was about how people who ask certain questions must be lazy and unmotivated:

            "If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway!"

            But those are good questions. They're questions everyone should be asking. They're questions that you might have a very good reason to ask. And I honestly don't see why you should be putting people down for asking them.

            The thing that really hacks me off is how certain people who are making money online just pitch a fit whenever someone who isn't doesn't want to do as they say.

            And then, on top of it, when the guy explains why he doesn't want to do it... they call him a whinging loser who doesn't have what it takes.

            Well, gee, that's exactly the way I like to treat my customers. Do you know what someone who doesn't want my current product is?

            Someone who wants a different product.

            Now, what could a product creator do with someone who wants a product he's not selling, hmm? Any ideas?

            "Insult and ridicule him in public" doesn't seem like the right answer.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
              Actually, it was about how people who ask certain questions must be lazy and unmotivated:
              You really should read the threads more carefully before you comment on them.

              Okay Darklock, consider yourself ignored from this point on too!
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
                I forgot to mention another type of people in this forum and they are the "Energy Vampires" who always take the other side and try to argue with everything anyone says. They need attention and even negative attention is good to them. What do you do about them? If you have a stray dog that keeps coming around your house and you want it to go away, you certainly don't keep feeding it!

                I have found two truths about those types of people; the people who don't do what they need to be successful will eventually give up and go away and the "Energy Vampires" will wind up getting banned. Nature always has a way of taking care of itself!
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                • Profile picture of the author jdenc
                  Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

                  I forgot to mention another type of people in this forum and they are the "Energy Vampires" who always take the other side and try to argue with everything anyone says. They need attention and even negative attention is good to them. What do you do about them? If you have a stray dog that keeps coming around your house and you want it to go away, you certainly don't keep feeding it!

                  I have found two truths about those types of people; the people who don't do what they need to be successful will eventually give up and go away and the "Energy Vampires" will wind up getting banned. Nature always has a way of taking care of itself!
                  And the attacks keep on coming.

                  I have been on forums for a long time. I have never been banned from any of them. And I'll bet my streak continues. Read around I don't always take the other side but I do when I disagree.

                  Oh and BTW disagreeing with you doesn't make me a bad person despite what you seem to think.
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

                  I forgot to mention another type of people in this forum and they are the "Energy Vampires" who always take the other side and try to argue with everything anyone says.
                  Not to be confused with the "Hopelessly Self-Important" who always take the position that those who don't agree with them are not only stupid, but also evil.

                  Food for thought: when I disagree with other people, I usually make some intelligent points... but when I disagree with you, it's "entirely unlike" me.

                  How is it unlike me? Like I said, you might have a good reason to ask those questions, which might not be indicative of laziness or a lack of motivation at all, and it can sometimes be hard to tell why someone is asking a question.

                  That strikes me as an intelligent point - you're talking about what someone asks when you really intend to talk about why someone asks. But you're basically throwing a tantrum about people disagreeing and claiming that you're just going to ignore jdenc (a frequently intelligent and insightful poster) because he clearly isn't paying attention.

                  Oh, and I just noticed you're going to ignore me, too. Good luck with that.
                  Signature
                  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              Actually, it was about how people who ask certain questions must be lazy and unmotivated:

              "If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway!"

              But those are good questions. They're questions everyone should be asking. They're questions that you might have a very good reason to ask. And I honestly don't see why you should be putting people down for asking them.

              The thing that really hacks me off is how certain people who are making money online just pitch a fit whenever someone who isn't doesn't want to do as they say.

              And then, on top of it, when the guy explains why he doesn't want to do it... they call him a whinging loser who doesn't have what it takes.

              Well, gee, that's exactly the way I like to treat my customers. Do you know what someone who doesn't want my current product is?

              Someone who wants a different product.

              Now, what could a product creator do with someone who wants a product he's not selling, hmm? Any ideas?

              "Insult and ridicule him in public" doesn't seem like the right answer.

              I don't recall Chris mentioning anything you just said.

              Didn't you just complain that people were not doing your Zombie course like it was taught?

              Heck, I thought you were even complaining that some people didn't even try your course.

              So why the hell did they buy it if they weren't going to put it into action or do the steps as was written?

              How many people made money with your course?

              Hell, you even said you don't use the techniques in your own course.
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                I don't recall Chris mentioning anything you just said.
                That's why I said "certain people" instead of "Chris."

                Didn't you just complain that people were not doing your Zombie course like it was taught?
                There's a rather subtle distinction there that I was complaining about a lack of pure results, not a lack of people doing as I told them.

                There are plenty of people making money with Zombie Blogging. Trouble is, that's not all they're using. They've added all kinds of new twists and extensions to it. So while I'm very pleased to hear their results, and very proud that I could have been a part of them, they don't give me a single damn data point on what the average newbie can expect if he just picks up ZB and does what it says.

                Because when that newbie says "how long will it take to see results" and "what kind of money can I expect to make," I'd like to tell him what real customers are really seeing with the method all by itself.

                Because I don't think he's necessarily "lazy and unmotivated" at all.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  That's why I said "certain people" instead of "Chris."



                  There's a rather subtle distinction there that I was complaining about a lack of pure results, not a lack of people doing as I told them.

                  There are plenty of people making money with Zombie Blogging. Trouble is, that's not all they're using. They've added all kinds of new twists and extensions to it. So while I'm very pleased to hear their results, and very proud that I could have been a part of them, they don't give me a single damn data point on what the average newbie can expect if he just picks up ZB and does what it says.

                  Because when that newbie says "how long will it take to see results" and "what kind of money can I expect to make," I'd like to tell him what real customers are really seeing with the method all by itself.

                  Because I don't think he's necessarily "lazy and unmotivated" at all.

                  That isn't what you said here.

                  "Most of the customers for my Zombie Blogging product are not even remotely following the system."

                  http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...fter-year.html
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    That isn't what you said here.
                    Yes it is.

                    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                    Every person using this system seems to fall into one of two categories.

                    One, people who are successful and making reasonable money with it, without putting anywhere near twenty hours a week into it - even in the initial stages.

                    Two, people who are doing damn near nothing and don't get a dime from it and probably never will.
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                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


                      That's a hard question.

                      Most of the customers for my Zombie Blogging product are not even remotely following the system.

                      I'd really like to know, in the next six or eight weeks, how much they've made with ZB - so I can put some numbers on the WSO.

                      But so far, every customer I talk to has moved on.

                      They're not really following the system, and they didn't put all that much time and effort into it in the first place.

                      They did it once or twice, but then they got this other WSO, and it was exciting and new so they're doing that until... ooh, shiny.

                      I have yet to find a single person who is actually doing what the system says to do.

                      What can you make with this system?

                      I have no freakin' clue.

                      Every person using this system seems to fall into one of two categories.

                      One, people who are successful and making reasonable money with it, without putting anywhere near twenty hours a week into it - even in the initial stages.

                      Two, people who are doing damn near nothing and don't get a dime from it and probably never will.

                      What would you make if you put twenty hours a week into it? Hell, I don't know. How could I know? Nobody's ever done that before.

                      Looking at what the category one people are doing, I can predict you'll make a lot more than they do.

                      But then, looking at what the category two people are doing, I could as easily predict you won't make a damn thing.

                      And while the optimist in me wants to believe you're a category one person, still the realist in me knows you're probably category two.

                      So what should I tell you?

                      Most of your customers must be in category two from this post of yours.

                      This sounds like the same people Chris is talking about.

                      Your busting Chris' chomps but basically are a realist when it comes categorizing people as doing nothing with your product.
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                      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                        Most of your customers must be in category two from this post of yours.
                        No, Thomas, most of them altered their method based on what they found in a new WSO. They started out with Zombie Blogging, and then picked up something else before it produced any results. Now they're doing a little of ZB and a little of this other thing and it's simply impossible to tell how much of their income is from which approach.

                        And let's make sure one thing is absolutely, perfectly clear.

                        They have every right to do this.

                        This is precisely what people should be doing with any WSO they pick up: adapting it and modifying it to whatever form best fits their business, their goals, and the way they want to work.

                        My complaint is not about what people are doing. It's about the lack of data. I was asked a question I couldn't answer, and I explained why I couldn't answer it. I'd really like to answer it, but I can't.

                        Perhaps I should have just called the guy names and told him he doesn't have what it takes. It certainly would have been easier.
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                        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                          No, Thomas, most of them altered their method based on what they found in a new WSO. They started out with Zombie Blogging, and then picked up something else before it produced any results. Now they're doing a little of ZB and a little of this other thing and it's simply impossible to tell how much of their income is from which approach.

                          And let's make sure one thing is absolutely, perfectly clear.

                          They have every right to do this.

                          This is precisely what people should be doing with any WSO they pick up: adapting it and modifying it to whatever form best fits their business, their goals, and the way they want to work.

                          My complaint is not about what people are doing. It's about the lack of data. I was asked a question I couldn't answer, and I explained why I couldn't answer it. I'd really like to answer it, but I can't.

                          Perhaps I should have just called the guy names and told him he doesn't have what it takes. It certainly would have been easier.
                          That is not what you stated. I just quoted what you said.

                          You say you are realist and people will fall into category two which means doing nothing with the information.

                          Chris is being a realist as well but you argue with him even though you said the same thing about your customers.

                          Not a very nice thing to say about your customers, CDark.
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                          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                            Chris is being a realist as well but you argue with him even though you said the same thing about your customers.
                            Thomas, there is a big difference between "if you-personally are asking this exact question, you-personally are probably not going to see results" and "if you-generally are asking any question remotely like this, you-generally are lazy and unmotivated."
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                            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                  • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
                    I get the gist of the post, that some people just don't want to do anything. But, there's a disconnect between that reality and the questions offered as examples. Those questions are perfectly legitimate, and while someone who does not want to do anything may ask such questions, people that are genuinely interested in, or perhaps already actively, trying to better their online efforts might also ask the same type of questions.
                    Exactly Dan and I was in no way talking about those who legitimately want to make a living online. I think everyone agrees that it would be stupid not to ask legitimate questions. You and I agree that those people are the people who are "genuinely interested in, or perhaps already actively, trying to better their online efforts" as you mention. Those ARE NOT the people who I was referring to in this post.

                    Again, let me say that is it NOT the asking of the questions so they can better themselves, it is the asking of the questions because the effort may be too much for them.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
                      Let me summarize this for those who need it...

                      I am sick and tired of people whining and complaining about how long it will take them, how hard it is, what is involved because they don't want to put forth the effort to do whatever it takes to become successful. These are the people who buy the products and never put them to use THEN complain about the product because it didn't do what it was supposed to.

                      Out of the many responses to this thread, there were two avid dissenters and the rest were supportive. I won't explain this thread again because it is obvious that most of you get it and don't need it explained to them.
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

                      Again, let me say that is it NOT the asking of the questions so they can better themselves, it is the asking of the questions because the effort may be too much for them.
                      Isn't that rather important?

                      Look at the example of someone who only has two to four hours a day to work on his IM activities. Isn't it rather important for him to find something he can do in two to four hours a day?

                      Of course, the conversation will probably go like this, because we've seen it before:

                      "How much time does this take every day?"

                      "Why are you asking that?"

                      "Well, I only have two to four hours a day."

                      "That's not enough for anything, you're lazy and unmotivated."

                      "You don't understand, I have a day job and I have to work."

                      "Stop whinging about your situation, you're just making excuses because you don't want it enough."

                      WTF? It's a legitimate question, and it's legitimately because the effort may be too much. He wants to come home at the end of the day and do more work. How is that lazy and unmotivated? How does he not want it enough?
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                      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    More than anything, I think fear of failure is the underlying culprit.

    There are an infinite number of ways to generate income online. The best antidote for that fear of failure is to pick one way, and as Chris said, just do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
      Good post, but us WSO creators make a lot of money off of lazy, whining, IM pretenders LOL
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      Earns Me Over $146.72 in 12 Hours. This is Weird, But it Works!
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  • Profile picture of the author JimmyS
    I completely agree with you. Very good post indeed! You have given every warrior a taste of realization on why they can't be successful. Thank you for this post.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    This is a great thread.

    Someone on this forum has a sig I really like. It goes something like this. "It's not easy to get rich online but it is easy to make some money." (not verbatim but close I think.)

    Anyway, I didn't come to IM looking to get rich. I did come to IM looking to make some money. And that what I've done.

    At the risk of being argued down, making money online is EASY, EASY, EASY. In most cases though it is time consuming, I say most cases because sometimes that great idea just hits and from start to finish you can have money in your pocket within a few hours. Some people feel that time consuming = hard. I don't. I can easily walk a mile in and hour. To run a mile in 4 minutes would be too hard for me to do.

    Anyway Chris, you are correct for sure about "just do it." It's probably the best way to make money online.

    Thanks for telling it like it is.

    OH, and about the "questions," I too find them to be asked way too much about WSOs with a good refund policy selling for under $50, sometimes selling for only a couple to a few bucks. Heck, buy read and find out for yourself if it's "too hard" to do. If you honestly don't get a $10 idea from a $7 eBook then get a refund. Personally I have always gotten more from all the WSOs I've purchased than I paid and I've bought a TON of WSOs. Sometimes you have to dig for that nugget but to me that's OK.

    Thanks again,

    George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    I think some of you people are reading too much into Chris's comments and looking for an angle to argue with him. Or perhaps he didnt word his argument as well as he could have..I don't know.

    Chris is right though, most people who fail in IM do so because they are lazy and ask pointless questions instead of just getting on with it and doing some work and learning as they go along. Heck I was one of them, I'm probably the biggest failure here in terms of time spent and results shown but since I'm making some money now I know exactly what I did wrong and its similar to what Chris has outlined in his original post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      I think some of you people are reading too much into Chris's comments and looking for an angle to argue with him. Or perhaps he didnt word his argument as well as he could have..I don't know.

      Chris is right though, most people who fail in IM do so because they are lazy and ask pointless questions instead of just getting on with it and doing some work and learning as they go along. Heck I was one of them, I'm probably the biggest failure here in terms of time spent and results shown but since I'm making some money now I know exactly what I did wrong and its similar to what Chris has outlined in his original post.
      It's okay Ernie! I know people like to pick on me because I am only 9 years old. It's my picture that gives me away, isn't it?
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

        It's okay Ernie! I know people like to pick on me because I am only 9 years old. It's my picture that gives me away, isn't it?
        Naw! If it were a current photo Chris, it would be in color!

        OK, OK, I realize that some people like to argue and sorry if I take the wind out of your sails, but I do realize that black and white photos are popular today and quite the fad.

        I was only trying to lighten the "air" as it was getting a little thick here.

        Lighten up!

        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Naw! If it were a current photo Chris, it would be in color!

          OK, OK, I realize that some people like to argue and sorry if I take the wind out of your sails, but I do realize that black and white photos are popular today and quite the fad.

          I was only trying to lighten the "air" as it was getting a little thick here.

          Lighten up!

          Terra
          Thank you Glamor Granny... you are ever the peacemaker! I am going to tell my mommy how nice you have been to me!
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Murphy
        Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

        It's okay Ernie! I know people like to pick on me because I am only 9 years old. It's my picture that gives me away, isn't it?
        OMG! You have been around here ever since you were 4 years old??

        Impressive! :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Marco Yandun
    Absolutely right. Stop jumping from one program to another. Stick with one until you learn how to make money taking action, this is what really matters.

    Marco
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Marco Yandun View Post

      Absolutely right. Stop jumping from one program to another. Stick with one until you learn how to make money taking action, this is what really matters.

      Marco
      True, However...

      Buying one program after another is not necessarily jumping from one program to another....

      Personally I bought and buy tons of WSOs and other products. I love to read ALL of what is going on.

      In my younger days I bought or subscribed to Income Opportunities, and other such mags, I bought a lot of things prentice hall put out on different marketing techniques and businesses. I bought how to start this and that business etc. For me it was research and yes, Entertainment.

      Finally I settled on Carpet Cleaning which I did for 20 years. Why? Well for a very simple reason, I liked it and I believed I could make money doing it.

      Cut to today. As I said in the beginning I buy a lot so I've never made the statement to others don't jump from program to program to mean "buy" when I elude to that I mean actually "doing." Why? Because there is not enough time in a day/week/month/year/life time to do everything.

      I have so many WSOs and programs and methods on my HardDrive I couldn't read them much less do them in my lifetime, what's left of it. Do I feel because they didn't "work" for me they are junk. NO. Collectively they have all helped me make money, Because I pay close attention to what makes me buy them in the first place, those observations alone are worth the price of admission.

      I buy the latest and greatest not to work it but to see if I'd like to give it a try. Usually the answer is no. Something about kissing frogs comes to mind.

      Ramble over

      George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
      Well now, I have found this here discussion mighty amusin! It reminds me of a tale I once heared...

      There was this here feller and he was being tailgated by a fidgety woman on a purty busy street. All of a sudden like, the light turned yellow just as that feller got to the crosswalk. Well sir, that feller did what he was sposed to do and he stopped at that there crosswalk.

      Now that there lady what was tailgating him became right down furious and she commenced to honking her horn and screaming at that feller. Seems he had caused her to miss gettin thru that there intersection and she had to slam on her brakes. Naturally, that is what caused her to drop her cell phone, her makeup and the book she had been a readin.

      While she was sittin there screamin and cussin, she heard a tap on her window and looked right up into the face of a very serious officer of the law. Well, that officer ordered her to get out her car and he told her to put her hands up. He took her on down to the police station where she was searched, fingerprinted, photographed, and placed in one a them holding cells.

      After she had been a coolin her heels for a couple of hours a policewoman approached the cell and unlocked the door. She was then escorted back to the bookin desk where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal belongins. She immediately commenced to askin the officer why in tarnation she had be placed under arrest!

      That poor feller looked at the woman and he said, ''I'm mighty sorry for this error of judgement. You see ma'am, I pulled up behind your car while you were tootin yore horn, flipping yore middle finger at that there guy in front of you and cussin up a blue streak at him. It was then that I happened to be noticin that 'What Would Jesus Do' bumper sticker on yore winder. Then I took to noticin that 'Choose Life' license plate holder. Then I saw that there 'Follow Me to Sunday-School' bumper sticker. Finally, I saw yore chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk of yore car. Naturally, I assumed that you was drivin a stolen car!''

      Now, I am a wonderin if any of you smart folk can figger out the moral to that there story and how it applies to this here situation?
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Hillbilly Marketer View Post

        Now, I am a wonderin if any of you smart folk can figger out the moral to that there story and how it applies to this here situation?
        Always drive through yellow lights?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

    I was looking thought the WSOs and I saw the same recurrent theme in a lot of threads. A lot of the same questions were asked over and over...

    "Does this have anything to do with bum marketing?"

    "How long will it take before I start seeing money coming in?"

    "Will I have to write articles?"

    "How much time will I have to put into it?"

    "Will I still be able to wear Granny's pantaloons and still be able to do this?"

    If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway!
    With the exception of the last question, those are perfectly reasonable questions for someone to ask. It may help save on refund requests too. Maybe the prospect already has a guide on bum marketing and wants to learn about something else to add to his arsenal. Thus, if what the seller has is another system for bum marketing, the prospect is not interested.

    Likewise, asking how long it will take before money starts coming in is reasonable too. Is it a system that takes time to build up? Is it something that can get immediate results? Maybe the results are immediate, but they may not get paid for 30 or 60 days because it takes that long for the affiliate manager to cut a check. And so on.

    Asking about articles isn't unreasonable either. Maybe the prospect isn't a good writer. Maybe he will never be. If the system being sold requires he writes 10 articles a day, maybe that's not going to be a good fit for him. Maybe he can afford the product but not the outsourcing. That'd be a good reason to ask, no? Maybe he can write, but he just can't churn out 10 articles a day. And so on.

    Time is a good question too. Maybe the prospect has a job and wants to build something online for extra income. Maybe she wants to build something that will eventually replace her income. But, now, she only have a few hours to spare. If the prospect can only spare a couple hours a night, a system that requires her to spend 8 hours at the computer each day isn't going to work for her.

    I get the gist of the post, that some people just don't want to do anything. But, there's a disconnect between that reality and the questions offered as examples. Those questions are perfectly legitimate, and while someone who does not want to do anything may ask such questions, people that are genuinely interested in, or perhaps already actively, trying to better their online efforts might also ask the same type of questions.

    Prospects in the latter group, who could become excellent long-term customers, might not take too kindly to being held in contempt by sellers for simply asking a few reasonable questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    I think there are three major problems with people getting into IM.

    One, someone told them it was easy to get to the gold. It ain't! Not even if you get lucky on your first success. It is the hardest subject I have ever learned because each lesson knocks me on my ass SOOO hard. Try getting up from that day after day when everyone is telling you to go get a real job -- it's not easy but that is what sets me apart. I do get up! Never think not to get up. What real job? $10/hr and lucky if you can collect your pay after 2 months and a lawsuit? Forget it.

    The second problem is people have no business experience before coming into it. In other words they have not failed before from their own creations, gotten up, brushed themselves off and went at it again. Most people getting into IM got laid-off, fired, whatever and have never worked for themselves and realize the punches are coming. It's like if one day you decide to be a boxer and your first fight is with tyson!

    The third problem is as the OP said -- blame game. I cannot stand people that blame this and that on their problems. Whenever I meet a person like this I know immediately their station in life will NEVER change. We are responsible for EVERY SINGLE THING that happens to us. When you can accept that, you can control a lot more in your surroundings. I sometimes drive people crazy with my lack of sympathy or empathy in business situations or even life situations where they just wont get off their butts to do something productive yet they sit and play farmville for 4 hours. I mean wtf, you have no time to learn something that can free you from your money worries forever but you have time to plant fake crops?

    It is funny i saw this post because up until now I have not been really telling ppl what i do but lately I have and when I do, their eyes pop open and they want to know how to do it themselves. This is people that make $100k working in factories so worried they will not have a job tomorrow asking me how to get into it. I try as best I can to explain it aint easy, it takes discipline and a few tyson-strength punches to your ego and pocket book and yet somehow I know they just dont have that killer attitude it takes to stick to IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author kml
    Are you serious?

    ALL the IM "make money online" offers ALL basically seem to be the same thing... Big money, work at home, it's easy, etc. etc.

    Web pages with BIG PRINT and COLORED WORDS to draw attention...

    The B.S. lame opt-in pop-ups...

    The same "formula" over and over...

    And now you're complaining that the non-sophisticated CUSTOMER has questions or doesn't understand why your totally awesome marketing squeeze page isn't making them money by clicking a button ?

    Really? Maybe we all need to take a break from guzzling the punch and reevaluating what we're doing and offering.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by kml View Post

      ALL the IM "make money online" offers ALL basically seem to be the same thing... Big money, work at home, it's easy, etc. etc.
      This is really not even remotely accurate. What's happening is people are finding IM products by searching for these kinds of things - they go to Google and type "make lots of money without any work" and all these IM products pop up.

      And yeah, they're the kind of products you just described. Because that's what the guy was looking for. But that's not what Chris is talking about - he's talking about people in the WSO forum asking about less hyped-up methods. Things that actually produce results, that are generally "unsexy" and just take dedication and hard work.

      And honestly, I feel like the questions he's talking about should be in the sales copy, and the fact they aren't feels like a trap. You should get some kind of picture from the sales copy about how long you have to work, and what kind of work it is, and how long it is before you make any money, and how much money you should make... I mean, these are basic ideas you want to have on any investment.

      So I don't really agree with him that asking the questions is a Bad Thing, and I don't even really agree that his clarification about motives makes it any better. But this particular analysis - that the hype is too much - really doesn't seem like a fair one.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        You seem to have a tendency to want to argue hypothetical situations just to disagree with someone - even if they're fundamentally saying something you've also said before.

        Chris's OP wasn't confusing and he made his thoughts pretty clear. It appeared to be a vent rather than he thought he was saying something he thought would be new thinking, so why bother to pick holes in his arguement and then take over the thread arguing the toss about anything you can find to pull apart?

        Attacking Chris's post for the sake of it doesn't make sense in many scenarios.

        I know you've said you need the money and doing this gets your sig file exposure but aren't there more productive/positive ways to do that?
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        nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Deanna Taber
    Hi Chris,

    That was a great post! Oh so very true. By the way~ Welcome to Oregon!

    Deanna
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelAppleton
    Bravo Chris, I was laying in bed the other night and was thinking about writing a very simpler post myself. If only more people would give IM the time and effort they give there days jobs. People are happy to invest $50-$75 a week in gas for their cars to get to work but won't invest time and effort into IM.

    It bugs me when you see the same people start threads moaning how after 6 months they have made nothing, you ask what they have done so far to try and make money and they have 2 or so articles up and a poorly written half finished website or squiddo lens.

    Making money online isn't an easy ride, you have to work hard online to make money and even harder to work online full time and quit your job.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      jdenc,
      I can't help but notice you didn't really answer my question as to how you know the motivations of everyone that asks questions and that they are destined to failure because they do.
      As a moderator, I'll take a stab at that. We have to make educated guesses about posters' motivations all the time.

      As Thomas pointed out, if you see enough of something, you begin to notice patterns. Watch the results closely, and for long enough, and you can see which conclusions tend to be valid and which turn out wrong. The whole purpose of recognizing patterns is to be able to predict probable outcomes.

      For example, there are people who look for certainty. Ironically, the only certainty is their eventual disappointment. The universe is chaotic, and filled with sharp corners, hard edges, and dimly lit hallways.

      A person's choice of words in a single post gives you hints about their mental state when they make that post. Usually not enough to make an accurate assumption about their overall character. But, over time, consistency in those word choices can tell you a great deal about them. A lot more than most people would believe, actually.

      These patterns tend to be shared among people with similar ways of thinking and acting. They're useful for estimating whether a given action should be taken in response. If a given pattern has a very high probability of a certain bad result, and that result has a sufficiently unpleasant response, you do something about it. The greater the potential damage, the lower the probability that's required for action.

      The nature of the damage has a lot to do with what action you take. If it's restricted to the person engaged in the pattern, you may choose not to take any action at all.

      There are some patterns that are extremely reliable. None are 100% perfect, but there are quite a few that I've never seen broken yet. The more common and reliable a pattern turns out to be, the more you can learn about the motivation behind the actions that make up the pattern. Especially when those actions are expressed in words.

      So, yes. You can know the motivations of the majority of people who follow certain patterns. And yes, a single action can sometimes indicate the pattern.

      The interesting thing is that, once you recognize the patterns, you don't need to know the mind of the person behind it. You can just look at the probable outcomes and make a decision based on them.

      A useful objection to Chris' comments would have been, "They can indicate what you've suggested. They could also indicate X, Y and Z. The question is, how strong an indicator are they, and on what do you base these conclusions?"

      WHACK!

      Complete change in the nature of the ensuing discussion. Instead of legalistic word-splitting, there'd have been a common sense discussion that could have benefitted a lot of people who need that understanding.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post


    I was looking thought the WSOs and I saw the same recurrent theme in a lot of threads. A lot of the same questions were asked over and over...

    "Does this have anything to do with bum marketing?"

    "How long will it take before I start seeing money coming in?"

    "Will I have to write articles?"
    Agree with many points in your post Chris, although in regards
    questions being asked, frankly a great number of WSO's are so
    badly described or purposely vague, by their very nature folks
    have to ask those questions.

    I might also add that for example, lets say you're looking for
    a new twist on a theme, you like the general idea of the WSO's
    aim, but you just want to clarify whether you're already
    doing what the WSO is selling, you need to clarify that.

    Not sure that questions really dictate somebodies ability
    to make money or otherwise, but I do agree that much of
    the failure of many folks on here is from simply not understanding
    that any system they buy, despite the claims made in the WSO
    will take massive action to make them pay off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

      Agree with many points in your post Chris, although in regards
      questions being asked, frankly a great number of WSO's are so
      badly described or purposely vague, by their very nature folks
      have to ask those questions.
      That's a key issue here I think.

      Many newbies run their WSOs knowing full well that they're not saying anything new and purposely make their sales copy vague so that you really have no idea what you're getting until after you buy it.

      It used to be the case that people would happily outline exactly what was in the product, with chapter titles, samples etc... but there are so many regurgitated products being offered by people that know their product is nothing new - that they can't risk saying what it's about, let alone what's in it because it would be obvious that it's regurgitated stuff that's been sold before.

      It seems to be largely related to lack of confidence and rather than just say - hey, this is similar to Bum Marketing but with some twists of my own that I've found work and haven't seen anyone else talk about, which would be much clearer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's a key issue here I think.

        Many newbies run their WSOs knowing full well that they're not saying anything new and purposely make their sales copy vague so that you really have no idea what you're getting until after you buy it.

        It used to be the case that people would happily outline exactly what was in the product, with chapter titles, samples etc... but there are so many regurgitated products being offered by people that know their product is nothing new - that they can't risk saying what it's about, let alone what's in it because it would be obvious that it's regurgitated stuff that's been sold before.

        It seems to be largely related to lack of confidence and rather than just say - hey, this is similar to Bum Marketing but with some twists of my own that I've found work and haven't seen anyone else talk about, which would be much clearer.
        One of the problems is it's hard to moderate, to start making
        a call over who's providing "enough" clear information and so forth.

        Talk about a minefield.

        I actually object less to the "buy a bazillion link" WSO's than I do
        the guys rehashing the exact same information they read and
        bunging it into a WSO.

        Half the time as you mentioned in another post, I don't believe
        they even try it themselves, they just saw it as a technique in
        a IM product, rewrote it and threw it up.

        Never mind the cold hard realities of generating a ROI from it
        require vastly more understanding than the hastily put together
        10 page WSO provides.

        Just keep selling to the newbies, pays the cable bill.

        Sorry, slightly OT.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
          Originally Posted by SimonHarrison View Post

          Half the time as you mentioned in another post, I don't believe
          they even try it themselves,
          That is the gist of what I am trying to get across.

          Also, I stated in the beginning of this post that it was "tough love" and I WANT to see those people succeed. I want them to understand that they CAN become successful. ANYONE reading this has the potential to become successful... if they change. Let me say this directly to those people I am talking about...

          Find a method and give it a legitimate chance to work. TAKE ACTION! You can be as successful as anyone in this forum if you make the effort to just do it!

          There ARE a lot of regurgitated WSOs out there but you don't throw the baby out with the bath. If you happen to buy one of those WSOs, look for the nuggets in amongst the dirt. They all have them. If they are SO bad that they don't have ANY useful info, ask for a refund. There is a huge difference in asking for a refund on a bad product and asking for a refund so you can get something free. If the product is bad, by all means say so in the feedback portion of the thread because feedback is what makes the system work. Just make sure you have tried the method and given it a chance to succeed.

          To those of you who fall into the category of people I am talking about; I am not trying to throw you under the bus! I want you to get ON the bus and take a ride with the people in the WF that can teach you something. There are a lot of good people in here who know what they are talking about and they give freely of their time. Take that info and DO something with it.

          You don't HAVE to buy a WSO. There are plenty of threads in the WF that will take you by the hand and give you step-by-step procedures. The only thing you have to do is take action and follow them.

          You want a WSO that will take you by the hand and teach you what you need to know? Technically not a WSO, the War Room is a place that is packed full of information that you can use to make more money than you ever dreamed! If you are a member in the War Room and you aren't making any money online, I can almost guarantee that you aren't finding a method and sticking to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author un
    I want to create an extra account just to be able to say "Thanks" more than once.
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  • Profile picture of the author gvannorman
    This post is probably one of the best that I have read here on the WF. It is true to the point, and might actually upset some of its readers. But, that is okay because those that get upset are the ones that it talks about.

    People who just want to get something for nothing. Those who want to become successful will come in here and not just lurk, they will post positive posts and take any criticism that they get and make it work for them. Not every method on here will work for everyone. You have to find your way around the Internet and with in a few months of hard work the money will start to come in.

    First step to making money online is to learn and take what your told and put it to work. Nothing in life is free!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mokai
    i 100 percent agree with your vent / thread but there have been a lot of these as well, no matter how much we vent and try to help people, the inherent nature of most newbies and people moving online is to expect instant success with minimal amount of time invested, or they quit at the first sign of failure, i have just come to accept this as part of our world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Sandford
    Well said Chris too many people who are starting out in IM think that it is going to take a matter of weeks to make money. Too many people think that it will not take hard work and constant action everyday. I have done what you talked about, newbies joining a course or buying a product and only read the first 4 pages and think "this is no good, NEXT Product please!!"

    I did however learn that this approach will never work and we need to put all the knowledge we learn into consistant action.So many out there know what they want from life and have the knowledge to achieve this but just do not take action. We often hear that "knowledge is power." But, knowledge is really only power in reserve. It remains useless if it's not tapped into by applying action. Knowledge that is not put to action remains just knowledge in your head and provides no benefit. It's completely wasted. something always comes up to prevent people from moving forward. You either have excuses or progress. Tired after work,football game on TV, make dinner, help the kids with homework, Result, no progress only excuses. I had to change my approach to taking action daily in my Internet Marketing career because I now know how important it is. Taking action every day is the key to making focused progress.
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    Chris,

    You listed a number of questions for which there are absolutely legitimate
    reasons for asking them. They don't translate into the people asking them
    falling into the negative description you applied to them.

    Folks just made the valid point that while agreeing with the large majority of
    your post in general that your criteria for determing who the wasters are
    didn't always hold water even if the basic gist of your post was well received.

    Not agreeing with you on every single point made doesn't mean you can level
    the accusation at folks that they are either out for a punch up or
    trying to hawk their products.

    Hopefully you'll take this in the manner it was intended, ie not a negative
    one just one of clarification. I think as the author, what you wrote was
    crystal to you, perhaps not for all of us.

    All the best.

    Simon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
      Hopefully you'll take this in the manner it was intended, ie not a negative one just one of clarification. I think as the author, what you wrote was crystal to you, perhaps not for all of us.
      Simon, that is no problem at all! I understand completely.

      I guess the thing I have a problem with is this...

      That wasn't tough love it was ridiculous.
      instead of this...

      You listed a number of questions for which there are absolutely legitimate reasons for asking them. They don't translate into the people asking them falling into the negative description you applied to them.
      One response was very intellictual and the other was, well, "ridiculous" It doesn't take much to figure out which was which.

      You see, the whole purpose of this thread was to try to get a rise from those people to whom it was directed. Some people need a little "whack" upside the head to get them going and if just one person gets that "whack" and betters themselves, I will feel like something has been accomplished. I've been where they are and it is a frustrating and debilitating place to be.

      I have a very extensive background in self-help/motivation and I have seen this time and time again. These people are not just this way in online marketing. This tends to be a pattern in just about every aspect of their lives. These people are NOT hopeless and sometimes a little nudge is all it takes to make a difference in their lives. Sometimes that nudge may need to be something that makes them angry enough to make changes in their lives. If that is what it takes, then so be it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    @ Chris.

    I hear you, for the record I enjoyed and agreed with the vast majority of
    your post, appreciate you took the response in the manner intended.

    Despite silly WSO claims, this business is tough, and massive action isn't
    just a buzzword.

    All the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonB
    Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

    If you need to ask those questions, DO NOT buy ANY WSO because it won't do you any good anyway! My question to you is, "What does it matter?" Do you want to make money or not? It is apparent to me that a lot of your "want to" is overridden by your "have to" and that just won't cut it.
    They ask those questions, because, quite frankly, they read the same WSO, over and over and over and over and over... posted by different people.

    They are all titled, not exactly like this, but very similar - "With just $27, I can show you how to make $1,000,000,000,000,000,000 in 24 hours."

    Now, what kind of crap is that? That's the stupidest title I have ever seen and read in my life.

    While a lot of things you post here are very, very true... A newbie asks and asks, because they don't have any money and they don't know where to start.

    So, they read the "hype" title and think its the answers to their prayers - buy the product only to find out that its a bunch of crap. Not all WSO are like that, I have bought a lot that I don't know what I would have done with out them, but a lot promise you the world and give you nothing.

    As far as I'm concerned all those WSO Titles should be removed, or reworded.

    But it all comes down to this... There is no get rich product out there. You have to work at it and work at it in a smart way, otherwise, well, we know the outcome of those that don't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
      Originally Posted by GuruCreation View Post

      As far as I'm concerned all those WSO Titles should be removed, or reworded.
      It won't happen because that is what we are taught in Advertising 101... "Sell the benefits, not the features!" Having said that, there is a difference between "selling" and outrageous claims.

      If you are going to sell something, you have to wrap it up in a nice package with a pretty bow and make it look appealing. The problem starts when you open the package and you find a skunk! You can take a skunk, dress it up real nice and take it to the prom, but in the end, it's still a skunk!
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
        OMG! You have been around here ever since you were 4 years old??

        Impressive! :p
        Yes, I was a child prodigy!
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Chris,
          Yes, I was a child prodigy!
          I think "child progeny" would be more accurate.


          Paul

          PS: Name that cartoonist!
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          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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          • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Chris,I think "child progeny" would be more accurate.


            Paul

            PS: Name that cartoonist!
            Well Paul, I went to my handy-dandy online thesaurus just to make sure I was correct and this is what I came up with...

            progeny = anklebiter

            prodigy = refers to a person with exceptional talents

            No, I think I had it right the first time!

            PS

            You must be referring to Calvin & Hobbes!
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
              Name that cartoonist!
              oops! You wanted "cartoonist" and not "Cartoon"

              In that case, you are talking about Bill Watterson!

              What did I win?
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Chris,
                oops! You wanted "cartoonist" and not "Cartoon"

                In that case, you are talking about Bill Watterson!

                What did I win?
                One Get out of Hell Free Card, which I have taken the liberty of redeeming for you, as a means for you to escape this thread.


                Paul
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                Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Diver's
    JUST DO IT! - great post Chris!
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