76 replies
Hi to all,

Over the last 90 days, my clickbank account has been acting strangely.
I sell a golf instruction product through clickbank.

The Golf Swing Secret [dot]com

Finally, with the assistance of more than a few warriors in the copywriting section of the site and much testing, my page is converting 1-2 sales a day. Not earth shattering but a big step for me.

Anyway, for 3 weeks, sales went along at this rate and then simply cut off.

For 2 weeks I didn't make one sale... same traffic, same promotion.. nothing different. So I looked at my awstats for the site and discovered that although I wasn't getting the sales, visitors were still hitting my delivery page at virtually the same rate. Strange! So I changed all my buy links, I also changed the delivery page and all the file names, etc.

Bang... within 15 minutes, I made a sale and was off to the races for a 2 week run of 1-2 sales every day.

Then it happened again.. Bang then for 10 days... zero sales.. Changed all my stuff... Again within an hour I made a sale and continued at a nice rate for another 2 weeks. In fact, I had my best 2 weeks ever.

On Tuesday, sales shut off again until yesterday (Friday) when I changed out my deliver page, etc again and like magic, I made 3 sales overnight.

Does anybody have any idea as to what might be happening? If it's coincidence, it's a big coincidence.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,

Ben
#clickbank #weirdness
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    • Profile picture of the author Vogin
      I'm about to start with CB, so I'll keep an eye on this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wesley Atkins
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      ... it's not coincidence. What you describe is a very, very common scenario with Clickbank
      Oh, this is very worrying...

      I run several products through Clickbank and never heard about this before..

      Maybe I'll be buying into InfusionSoft earlier than I throught!...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyf
    Ben...good info. I didn't really know about this. Makes me wonder now.

    What do you mean by "delivery" page...is this your main sales page?

    What do you mean by "changing your buy links?" Do you actually have to create new directories to put your ebook in so that makes the link different?

    Thanks,

    AF
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    • Profile picture of the author yves
      Hi,

      Yes, I'm afraid you are not the first this has happened to and definitely won't be the last. It happened to me last year and I changed all my links, just like you did, and sales started up again.

      I would dearly love to know the reason for this but to date, it has never been explained and obviously clickbank refuse to accept that anything is up.

      It's great that you have managed to get consistent sales, that's the first hurdle, now for actually getting paid for them all .....

      Hope you find something that works and/or the curse is lifted .

      Now for the onslaught of those defending clickbank:rolleyes:

      Yves
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I suspect not, any more: they've certainly been much quieter over the last 6 months than the 6 months before that. This just happens too regularly, to too many people, for it to be denied with any vestige of plausibility at all.
          I agree Alexa. I think that when I get my new product on the market, I will be using ejunkie or something like that. I have heard way too many bad things about CB and I don't want to lose money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Bainbridge
    Are you sure your download page / thank you page is not getting indexed? It is strange that the sales just stop completely, but if your thank you page was for example appearing next to your homepage in the search engines, or if a simple search for your brand name brought it up then I expect this would reduce sales a LOT...

    If not then I don't know what to suggest really other than emailing clickbank and asking them about it.. I have actually always found them very responsive, but I don't see why changing something on the back end - i.e. your delivery page and file names would make any difference... obviously it has though.. I guess..
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanlucht
    Yeah, welcome to Clickbank. I've never heard of a good solution to this. Some people advocate opening several accounts and cycling between affiliate links, but I honestly don't know how I can get away with having several accounts.

    Unfortunately no other network out there has the high commissions and wide product base as Clickbank. This is definitely a grey area where I have no idea what to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author tylerdrun
    what we don't know yet is if clickbank is stealing or is it there tracking error... Clickbank was very highly reputable and their products converted like crazy once upon a time. But even I've found that there's been a drop in sales and an increase in order form impressions and submits(35% of visitors click order now)...

    It does seem like Clickbank could be stealing. I urge you to get a good tracking code other than analytics. Statcounter reveals the exact page visitor was referred from.

    Since you are a product owner u could do that. Set up a statcounter code on your delivery/download page. And see how many visitors u are getting and are u making sales. Look for the drought without changing links once more.

    What you can do could help everyone and let all of us know the truth...
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  • Profile picture of the author JayPeete
    It looks like everyone having this problem should make it a policy to change their download pages every time they go about 3 days without sales. It is a pain but better than working a regular job...
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I really don't like CB. I know several people this very thing has happened to, and on the other side of the coin they impose silly rules on affiliates as far as fees and how long they hang on to commissions. No sir, I don't like 'em.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author jafris
    Hey Golfswing,

    you may want to include and paste the following refresher code into your landing html page

    <META HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" CONTENT="5">


    or make your visitors land to a html page which automatically forwards them further to your delivery page through the insertion of following html code

    <META
    HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh"
    CONTENT="5; URL=autoforward_target.html">

    replace autoforward_target.html with the file name which is your delivery page?

    I am not sure if it will work, but you can give it a try. It might work, and save you from the pain of changing file names every time.

    Please also let us know if it works or not.

    Thanks & Regards,
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmJT
    That sounds like a very frustrating/annoying problem...I think I may need to pay more attention to this issue with my own product now. Have you figured out the reason behind the random weirdness yet? If you do let me know what you did lol. Wish I could be more help dude!
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I would like to see what our resident Clickbank expert/apologist has to say about this one. He always has some excuse for the behavior. But this scenario seems to be unexplainable, in my opinion anyway.

    This seems to beg for a registration page after the payment and prior to the download page. As much as I find them annoying, this makes me think that if I ever had any products for sale at Clickbank that I would have to have such a page. Of course, the likelihood of my ever having any products listed with Clickbank is slim and none.
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    • Profile picture of the author rickdearr
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      I would like to see what our resident Clickbank expert/apologist has to say about this one. He always has some excuse for the behavior. But this scenario seems to be unexplainable, in my opinion anyway.

      This seems to beg for a registration page after the payment and prior to the download page. As much as I find them annoying, this makes me think that if I ever had any products for sale at Clickbank that I would have to have such a page. Of course, the likelihood of my ever having any products listed with Clickbank is slim and none.
      I had a friend who had issues with paypal so he switched to CB, I'll have to warn him. Reg page would prove customer, would CB admit error and pay up?

      I'm sticking with authnet... Control, and drops money directly to bank no waiting.
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    Are you selling a pdf or membership or something else? Are you using some type of product delivery and protection system eg dlguard, e-junkie or similar? Maybe you should as they offer hidden, expiring download links.

    Also swap awstats for something better like google analytics or Statcounter so you can see the visitor paths and the file download stats.





    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Has anybody got any actual solid proof that this is happening to their product? If not, why?! If I suspected even slightly I was losing money from no fault of my own then I would have set up all the analytics already and be tracking things from my side. Then, and only then, would you have a leg to stand on.

    I would probably also go as far as to order my own product a few times during the sales droughts just to test whether things are really working as they are suppose to.

    So c'mon guys, where's the proof? Until then it is all just speculation. You can't be hurting too badly if you haven't even bothered to set up proper tracking on all this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Furthermore, asking for "proof" is frankly insulting to a large number of Warriors: you're basically calling them all liars.
        Funny that, a whole bunch of Warriors have no problems insinuating, even in some cases accusing, Clickbank of misrepresenting sales made. But that's ok I guess.

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        You seem to have misunderstood the subject, Will. It's not about vendors losing sales. Nobody is suggesting that's happening (at least, not here, they're not).
        I'll direct your eyes to the very first post of this thread, and I quote...

        "Over the last 90 days, my Clickbank account has been acting strangely.
        I sell a golf instruction product through Clickbank.

        Finally, with the assistance of more than a few warriors in the copywriting section of the site and much testing, my page is converting 1-2 sales a day. Not earth shattering but a big step for me.

        Anyway, for 3 weeks, sales went along at this rate and then simply cut off..."

        Sounds to me like he is a product vendor NOT affiliate, and as he was the OP, that is what I am talking about.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        People (here and elsewhere) would have absolutely NO reason for continually and coincidentally "inventing" exactly the same bizarre story
        That it's not their fault and the big bad corporation did it to them on purpose?

        Yeah, that's bizarre all right. I've never heard anyone talk about that. Especially not anyone crazy.
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    • Profile picture of the author yves
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Has anybody got any actual solid proof that this is happening to their product? If not, why?! If I suspected even slightly I was losing money from no fault of my own then I would have set up all the analytics already and be tracking things from my side. Then, and only then, would you have a leg to stand on.

      I would probably also go as far as to order my own product a few times during the sales droughts just to test whether things are really working as they are suppose to.

      So c'mon guys, where's the proof? Until then it is all just speculation. You can't be hurting too badly if you haven't even bothered to set up proper tracking on all this.
      With regard to the affilate problem, just wanted to add that I was so frustrated with my own CB nightmare that I purchased a product through my own active link and sure enough, the sale was not credited to me. I don't have proof of this, I don't need to have proof of this for anyone, I did it for my own confirmation but also wanted to alert others to this recurring situation and be on the look out for any strange goings on.

      If you have not suffered at the hands of CB then that's great! Hopefully it won't happen in the future. However, it has happened to many and possibly even some who haven't even noticed it.

      Yves
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    • Profile picture of the author golfswingsecret
      I'm working on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author golfswingsecret
        So c'mon guys, where's the proof? Until then it is all just speculation. You can't be hurting too badly if you haven't even bothered to set up proper tracking on all this.
        I'm working on it... big learning curve here.
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      • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
        Just adding my 2 cents here...

        I don't use clickbank as a vendor (and rarely bother as an affiliate for most of these reasons of not getting proper credit).

        However....

        It sounds to me like people are getting hold of your direct download page, in one of a few ways:

        1) someone is sharing your download links (every time you change it, its safe again until someone else shares it)

        2) google is indexing your download pages directly.

        There's a few ways you can check this - it mostly depends on whether you use AWStats or some other program, but mainly, look at your logs to see WHERE people are coming from. If you go down to the "referred by" urls list, you will see if the person actually came from google or just directly found the page (ie., NOT directly clickbank). This will tell you pretty clearly if it is getting indexed at google.

        --> If it is getting indexed, set up a set "no index no archive" in your robots.txt for that directory...

        --> Change this url WEEKLY. Don't wait for 3 days of loss of sales!! (Yes, I know its a pain, but its probably best).

        --> consider using ejunkie (? i think?) or dlguard or other download protectors.

        And lastly - google your actual delivery page. If you know its say, buyerthanks.html (dummy example obviously) - you could google your full URL with delivery page included.

        Probably put it in quotes and you should be able to find if anyone is linking to it, or if it's been indexed.

        Hope this helps. But likely it's not specifically a clickbank issue as much as it is a security thing. Happens with most downloadable thank you pages

        Amber
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    He sounded like a vendor to me too.


    Ben can you please let us know if are you a vendor or an affiliate for this product?


    Thanks
    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author WilliamL
    If I understood everything properly, Ben is a vendor of the Gold product. And, as he describes his situation, it seems like CB is stealing his sales every few days/weeks. I don't know... This is crazy, because I don't think that Clickbank wants to loose "customers"/vendors...

    William
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    All I am saying is that ClickBank is not going to stand up and take any notice unless you guys have some solid proof you can show them - they may even have a fault in their system that they are not completely aware of. But general accusations in this type of setting won't get the problem solved. A number of you need to get some solid data together that proves the case and then go back to ClickBank with that - then they will be forced to do something.

    I guess it depends how much you really want things to change. If it were me and I suspected they were fudging my sales I would be tracking things like a hawk. I don't understand you guys who are complaining but have not yet put anything in place to try and catch them out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author yves
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Many, many people have done this.



        You can express it as "accusations", of course; but to me, what's happening is that countless Warriors here (exactly as in other forums) have been recording their observations and describing what's happened to them, for the benefit of other Warriors and for consideration/discussion. Hard to imagine a more legitimate, productive and relevant use of the forum than that, isn't it?



        Interesting idea - but how do you propose that a sufficient number of affiliates should collectively produce the requisite video evidence to try to convince Clickbank at least to acknowledge that these difficulties exist? It's not exactly easy, is it?

        Meanwhile, I hope and trust you'd agree that it's better to report and discuss these events than for everyone concerned to remain silent about them, wouldn't you?
        Exactly, we are here to discuss every aspect of IM good and bad and this is unfortuntely one of the bad things.

        Also, even if you have solid undeniable proof of non-credited sales, I sincerely doubt that clickbank would bat an eyelid.
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        • Profile picture of the author timpears
          Originally Posted by yves View Post

          Also, even if you have solid undeniable proof of non-credited sales, I sincerely doubt that clickbank would bat an eyelid.
          Which suggests that Clickbank does not have a tracking problem, it is done on purpose. Otherwise, they would want to admit and or fix the error. But they don't, they always blow it off. I can't think of any other reason for them to respond to affiliate and vendor complaints, CAN YOU?:confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      All I am saying is that ClickBank is not going to stand up and take any notice unless you guys have some solid proof you can show them - they may even have a fault in their system that they are not completely aware of. But general accusations in this type of setting won't get the problem solved. A number of you need to get some solid data together that proves the case and then go back to ClickBank with that - then they will be forced to do something.

      I guess it depends how much you really want things to change. If it were me and I suspected they were fudging my sales I would be tracking things like a hawk. I don't understand you guys who are complaining but have not yet put anything in place to try and catch them out.
      There have been many people who have complained to CB and they just don't listen. CB seems to think they can do no wrong or have no problems with their system. So it just continues to get worse and worse.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    This is why I hate exclusively cookie based tracking, until such time as Clickbank implements IP based tracking I shall not do buisness with them, way too many complaints about missing commisions to ignore, not to mention the many floors with relying on cookies themselves.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author golfswingsecret
      Hey everybody,

      Thanks for the notes back... First to clear up a few things.

      I am not insinuating anybody stole anything or that anybody is lying so let's get that out of the way.

      I am a Vendor and do sell my own product and I just think the cycle that I've witnessed is weird. I don't know why it's happened which is why I posted the thread as I'm relatively new to the online marketing thing and I was hoping for some insight which folks here are generally nice enough to give me.

      The droughts in themselves are not that weird to me. It's the fact that changing the backend (my delivery page and video download links) seems to "reset", maybe a bad choice of words, the sales. As I said in my original mail, the first time I decide to change during a drought, I changed the front end (my buy links) and back end... the next drought, I changed just the back end and Friday I changed just the back end. And nearly instantly, in all 3 cases, sales resumed.

      If it's coincidence, it's definitely a doozy.

      I didn't intend to point a finger at anyone. I'm just trying to figure out what's happening if anything and fix it.

      Thanks to all for the comments offered.


      Ben
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      • Profile picture of the author Nutrifitness
        Originally Posted by golfswingsecret View Post

        Hey everybody,

        Thanks for the notes back... First to clear up a few things.

        I am not insinuating anybody stole anything or that anybody is lying so let's get that out of the way.

        I am a Vendor and do sell my own product and I just think the cycle that I've witnessed is weird. I don't know why it's happened which is why I posted the thread as I'm relatively new to the online marketing thing and I was hoping for some insight which folks here are generally nice enough to give me.

        The droughts in themselves are not that weird to me. It's the fact that changing the backend (my delivery page and video download links) seems to "reset", maybe a bad choice of words, the sales. As I said in my original mail, the first time I decide to change during a drought, I changed the front end (my buy links) and back end... the next drought, I changed just the back end and Friday I changed just the back end. And nearly instantly, in all 3 cases, sales resumed.

        If it's coincidence, it's definitely a doozy.

        I didn't intend to point a finger at anyone. I'm just trying to figure out what's happening if anything and fix it.

        Thanks to all for the comments offered.


        Ben
        Ben...did you say you contacted clickbank regarding this ? if so what did they say?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          • Profile picture of the author Nutrifitness
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Please don't take this the wrong way: I'm not trying to call you naive or anything, but if you'll excuse the observation, the phrasing of this question does rather seem to assume that people contacting Clickbank with problems and difficulties routinely get an answer.
            No not too niave...I guess I do get answers cuz I have a personal account rep for being in premiere CB vendor...so I guess I do get answers and quick
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Scary stuff lets hope that this is not happening on a regular basis I like skyfox's IP based tracking idea they should implement that it would be a lot more reliable. Spread your eggs in more than one basket people!
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    I hope this isn't a common thing for vendors?

    I have been so fed up with Clickbank tracking issues, that I decided to launch my own products instead of being an affiliate and now I hear that there may be issues there as well?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    This is interesting.

    I wonder what exactly it is that you're changing that's making the difference?

    Is it the 'buy' links, the download page urls, the file names, or what?

    Would it not be best to try changing one thing at a time, to try and isolate the problem?

    Also, the advice to not use awstats is good. Get Google Analytics and then a real-time web stats counter as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author roger Doger
      I claim to click back a while back about checking what was going on with my affiliates links because I was not getting sale and boom after they reply to me I got some sales. Dough I always thought their might be some stealing on commission of some type by some smart one:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    I was searching for an alternative to CB. I haven't been too happy either. I have products on Clickbank and use them as an affilate also. Not sure, why but when I click on the affilate links I create, I get ultimately end up with "no affilate".

    Might be a cookie issue (to prevent people from being an affilate to get a discount", but still the whole system and company (Clickbank) is just annoying, and I can't even find a way to contact them.

    Sorry if I hyjacked the thread. I'm going to start a new thread right now. I did read "paydot.com as an alternative" and they look interesting. But, will start a new thread to see where it leads.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Yes that may be so, but all most people would be going to Clickbank with is here say such as... "Last week I made 4 sales this week I made no sales - your stealing money from me..." etc etc. Of course if you approach it like that Clickbank are going to tell you to take a hyke - I would too.

    However if a group of you actually used an independent tracking system and were able to show them solid proof (on more than once occasion) that the sales they are reporting are vastly different to the sales you are reporting, they can't just blow you off. And if they still try to shake it off then you take legal action to get the problem solved. Until some sort of action like this is taken then I can't help but think this isn't really as much of an issue as you all say.

    As one other poster noted, don't be too quick to point fingers. If you're thank you page has been shared somewhere, whether on a forum, in a search engine where-ever, it is going to then show discrepancies in your analytics and could show these as sales when in fact they are not. There is a lot of thank you page sharing going on at the moment and it seems to be getting more and more frequent. I've even heard of people sharing the thank you pages of their competition products just to help their own sales. Whether this happens or not is another thing but you want to make sure you have checked every angle before you point fingers.

    And I don't understand the trouble you all have in getting hold of Clickbank. I have an account rep there who has always been more than helpful.
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Yes that may be so, but all most people would be going to Clickbank with is here say such as... "Last week I made 4 sales this week I made no sales - your stealing money from me..." etc etc. Of course if you approach it like that Clickbank are going to tell you to take a hyke - I would too.

      However if a group of you actually used an independent tracking system and were able to show them solid proof (on more than once occasion) that the sales they are reporting are vastly different to the sales you are reporting, they can't just blow you off. And if they still try to shake it off then you take legal action to get the problem solved. Until some sort of action like this is taken then I can't help but think this isn't really as much of an issue as you all say.

      As one other poster noted, don't be too quick to point fingers. If you're thank you page has been shared somewhere, whether on a forum, in a search engine where-ever, it is going to then show discrepancies in your analytics and could show these as sales when in fact they are not. There is a lot of thank you page sharing going on at the moment and it seems to be getting more and more frequent. I've even heard of people sharing the thank you pages of their competition products just to help their own sales. Whether this happens or not is another thing but you want to make sure you have checked every angle before you point fingers.

      And I don't understand the trouble you all have in getting hold of Clickbank. I have an account rep there who has always been more than helpful.
      interesting...so you don't get the canned responses from CB when you ask them to check into something...and you've never experienced anything like the scores of affiliates who promote products through CB have experienced on this and other forums? Very interesting...
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      • Profile picture of the author Warriortruth
        golfswingsecret, since this thread was started have you been able to find out anything new or resolved your issue?
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        • Profile picture of the author Warriortruth
          I hate to thread jack, but can someone tell me why I am a guest and my posts are n/a. I registered through the register link and support has not replied in days.
          Thank you
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          • Profile picture of the author reapr
            Well after reading through this thread most who have complained to CD about sales or wierd stats are use to the denial email nothing wrong on this end ...

            I don't even bother anymore.

            One thing noticeable in the stats in the last few months is an increase in shopping cart abandonment and a decrease in sales!
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        • Profile picture of the author wolverine1971
          I was on the phone for 3 days last week with Clickbank trying to get a problem fixed and even after giving them proof they just said there is no way to switch the commissions anyways.

          I saw a very strange thing happen last month where I went 4 days - same traffic, same hops, same order form impressions - and no sales. Sure it happens, but when you have the exact same traffic each day and have consistent numbers for months showing what that converts to in dollars it is a strange anomaly. After 4 days sales went back to normal.

          It happened again this month, same traffic, hops, impressions, and then all of a sudden 4 days straight at zero. Then I got an email from a vendor "Congratulations - you made a sale" - I thought great, the 4 day streak is over. That was on June 14th - client analytics was down all day, couldn't pull any data until the next day. This particular vendor uses Easy Click Mate which is tied into the CBLA IPN Notification and a feature turned on the Clickbank side.

          I showed 1 order form impression for that product that day right around the time of the sale notification but was never able to see the sale because of their system being down all day. Logged in Tuesday - no sale showing. The vendor made 1 sale on that product that day and was notified that I was the affiliate.

          The first time on the phone with Clickbank they told me it must be a reporting error on the vendor side. The second time I called to tell them it was Clickbank notifying them first, they said that we won't be able to fix the commissions anyways. The also told me that the 1 sale the vendor made did at some point in the last 2 months click through my affiliate link but the cookie must have been wiped out before they actually bought it.

          My biggest concern that I had was - I suspected something strange going on when I dropped to 0 for 4 days in a row, but then when I had confirmation of a sale that is not recorded for me and disappeared on Clickbanks side on the day the system was down all day that makes me mad. The fact the rep just wanted to push me off like I was the wrong one and they don't have errors was frustrating. Coming back with proof and then having them not actually care to look into what may have caused this error is the biggest red flag of all. If there is an error, it seems to me that it should be looked into and fixed regardless of whether I would get a commission back. I don't care about that 1 stupid commission, I care about all the others that I may have had that were lost - not so much that I lost the money because I won't ever be able to confirm those, but more so that the mistake happened, will happen again, they aren't interested in looking into it.

          The vendor happens to traveling and I have been going back and forth with him on email, he doesn't really seem to care about getting that involved in the issue - he made 100% commission instead of 25% so what's the incentive? He told me Clickbank could call him if they want to. That isn't likely either. So it becomes a dead end really quick. I pulled his product off of my site and won't be giving him anymore traffic ever again.

          This particular website is one of my fitness sites that does over $3k per month just on Clickbank so I'm realizing I am way to heavily vested in something I don't really have control over. There isn't any good alternatives for this product on Paydotcom or anywhere else so I have been discussing different options. I may sell the site and move on to all my other stuff, or have a product created so that I am on the Clickbank account and stop losing sales to lost cookies and strange tracking errors.

          One of my vendors actually referred me to this post because I told her all about the situation last week and wondered if anyone had similar experiences.
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          • Profile picture of the author Nutrifitness
            Originally Posted by wolverine1971 View Post

            I was on the phone for 3 days last week with Clickbank trying to get a problem fixed and even after giving them proof they just said there is no way to switch the commissions anyways.

            I saw a very strange thing happen last month where I went 4 days - same traffic, same hops, same order form impressions - and no sales. Sure it happens, but when you have the exact same traffic each day and have consistent numbers for months showing what that converts to in dollars it is a strange anomaly. After 4 days sales went back to normal.

            It happened again this month, same traffic, hops, impressions, and then all of a sudden 4 days straight at zero. Then I got an email from a vendor "Congratulations - you made a sale" - I thought great, the 4 day streak is over. That was on June 14th - client analytics was down all day, couldn't pull any data until the next day. This particular vendor uses Easy Click Mate which is tied into the CBLA IPN Notification and a feature turned on the Clickbank side.

            I showed 1 order form impression for that product that day right around the time of the sale notification but was never able to see the sale because of their system being down all day. Logged in Tuesday - no sale showing. The vendor made 1 sale on that product that day and was notified that I was the affiliate.

            The first time on the phone with Clickbank they told me it must be a reporting error on the vendor side. The second time I called to tell them it was Clickbank notifying them first, they said that we won't be able to fix the commissions anyways. The also told me that the 1 sale the vendor made did at some point in the last 2 months click through my affiliate link but the cookie must have been wiped out before they actually bought it.

            My biggest concern that I had was - I suspected something strange going on when I dropped to 0 for 4 days in a row, but then when I had confirmation of a sale that is not recorded for me and disappeared on Clickbanks side on the day the system was down all day that makes me mad. The fact the rep just wanted to push me off like I was the wrong one and they don't have errors was frustrating. Coming back with proof and then having them not actually care to look into what may have caused this error is the biggest red flag of all. If there is an error, it seems to me that it should be looked into and fixed regardless of whether I would get a commission back. I don't care about that 1 stupid commission, I care about all the others that I may have had that were lost - not so much that I lost the money because I won't ever be able to confirm those, but more so that the mistake happened, will happen again, they aren't interested in looking into it.

            The vendor happens to traveling and I have been going back and forth with him on email, he doesn't really seem to care about getting that involved in the issue - he made 100% commission instead of 25% so what's the incentive? He told me Clickbank could call him if they want to. That isn't likely either. So it becomes a dead end really quick. I pulled his product off of my site and won't be giving him anymore traffic ever again.

            This particular website is one of my fitness sites that does over $3k per month just on Clickbank so I'm realizing I am way to heavily vested in something I don't really have control over. There isn't any good alternatives for this product on Paydotcom or anywhere else so I have been discussing different options. I may sell the site and move on to all my other stuff, or have a product created so that I am on the Clickbank account and stop losing sales to lost cookies and strange tracking errors.

            One of my vendors actually referred me to this post because I told her all about the situation last week and wondered if anyone had similar experiences.
            Thanks for posting ...I referred you here it really added alot of solid proof to this thread...now we need solution
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            • Profile picture of the author wolverine1971
              Originally Posted by Nutrifitness View Post

              Thanks for posting ...I referred you here it really added alot of solid proof to this thread...now we need solution
              I think maybe going to some kind of barter system. I'll trade my best goat for someone to create a better solution.
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              • Profile picture of the author rts2271
                I got 2 goats on it

                Originally Posted by wolverine1971 View Post

                I think maybe going to some kind of barter system. I'll trade my best goat for someone to create a better solution.
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by wolverine1971 View Post

                I'll trade my best goat for someone to create a better solution.
                Is it a female goat?

                Is she cute?
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  Is it a female goat?

                  Is she cute?
                  If he throws in some assorted alcoholic beverages with the goat, you can consume them until she becomes cute.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Here is my response to a similar thread.

    Originally Posted by gabibeowulf View Post

    CB stealing ?? Give me a break .. even if they would "steal" your commission they
    would still not make any money since the "stolen" money would go to the vendor.
    Exactly. It always seems to be the same people who complain about Clickbank stealing - those who are making bugger all sales. They think there just HAS to be something wrong with Clickbank because how else could they be making such few sales - well, it's because you are not doing a good enough job of getting traffic and/or converting that traffic into sales.

    Let me ask you this.

    A lot of people run membership sites through Clickbank - a hell of a lot. How easy do you think it would be for some of these membership site owners to realise that they have 3,000 paying members in their membership site yet they have only received sales for 2,900 members? How easy? Very easy. Do you think Clickbank are THAT stupid? Do you really think Clickbank would leave themselves open that easily?

    And as the poster above said, if they are not ripping off vendors then the only other person they can rip off are affiliates. And by ripping off affiliates they are destroying the network they have worked so hard to create. By ripping off affiliates all they are doing is giving that affiliate commission back to the vendor, which:

    a) Does not make Clickbank any extra money...
    b) Means affiliates are making less sales and are less likely to use and promote products on the Clickbank marketplace - which means Clickbank's earnings then go down the toilet.

    You see, if you just used your brains before you go staight on out and accuse people of wrong-doings, you might actually see the stupidity behind yor arguments.
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    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
      You need pom poms and a jumpsuit.

      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Here is my response to a similar thread.



      Exactly. It always seems to be the same people who complain about Clickbank stealing - those who are making bugger all sales. They think there just HAS to be something wrong with Clickbank because how else could they be making such few sales - well, it's because you are not doing a good enough job of getting traffic and/or converting that traffic into sales.

      Let me ask you this.

      A lot of people run membership sites through Clickbank - a hell of a lot. How easy do you think it would be for some of these membership site owners to realise that they have 3,000 paying members in their membership site yet they have only received sales for 2,900 members? How easy? Very easy. Do you think Clickbank are THAT stupid? Do you really think Clickbank would leave themselves open that easily?

      And as the poster above said, if they are not ripping off vendors then the only other person they can rip off are affiliates. And by ripping off affiliates they are destroying the network they have worked so hard to create. By ripping off affiliates all they are doing is giving that affiliate commission back to the vendor, which:

      a) Does not make Clickbank any extra money...
      b) Means affiliates are making less sales and are less likely to use and promote products on the Clickbank marketplace - which means Clickbank's earnings then go down the toilet.

      You see, if you just used your brains before you go staight on out and accuse people of wrong-doings, you might actually see the stupidity behind yor arguments.
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    • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Here is my response to a similar thread.



      Exactly. It always seems to be the same people who complain about Clickbank stealing - those who are making bugger all sales. They think there just HAS to be something wrong with Clickbank because how else could they be making such few sales - well, it's because you are not doing a good enough job of getting traffic and/or converting that traffic into sales.

      Let me ask you this.

      A lot of people run membership sites through Clickbank - a hell of a lot. How easy do you think it would be for some of these membership site owners to realise that they have 3,000 paying members in their membership site yet they have only received sales for 2,900 members? How easy? Very easy. Do you think Clickbank are THAT stupid? Do you really think Clickbank would leave themselves open that easily?

      And as the poster above said, if they are not ripping off vendors then the only other person they can rip off are affiliates. And by ripping off affiliates they are destroying the network they have worked so hard to create. By ripping off affiliates all they are doing is giving that affiliate commission back to the vendor, which:

      a) Does not make Clickbank any extra money...
      b) Means affiliates are making less sales and are less likely to use and promote products on the Clickbank marketplace - which means Clickbank's earnings then go down the toilet.

      You see, if you just used your brains before you go staight on out and accuse people of wrong-doings, you might actually see the stupidity behind yor arguments.

      Unfortunately your post was a little too harsh - not to be rude, but did you actually *read* the first post by the OP?

      He explained about missing sales (WAS GETTING sales - dropped off... changed the download page, they started again).

      Several of us provided solutions/suggestions on how to fix this as it was very much likely someone getting access to the delivery page... but the OP didn't accuse CB of stealing (called it wierdness trying to figure it out)?

      Maybe read the whole thread before jumping on the bandwagon?

      Your points ARE valid - just remarking that you jumped as if the OP was accusing CB of stealing when he didn't.

      Amber
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by dimeco View Post

        Your points ARE valid - just remarking that you jumped as if the OP was accusing CB of stealing when he didn't.
        I totally agree with you Amber. If you read through the thread you would have seen other posts from me that were related to the original post. The reason for my last post was all the others who jumped on the bandwagon and accussed clickbank of stealing and/or fudging their stats.
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        • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I totally agree with you Amber. If you read through the thread you would have seen other posts from me that were related to the original post. The reason for my last post was all the others who jumped on the bandwagon and accussed clickbank of stealing and/or fudging their stats.
          hehe - no problem, yeah I actually just ignore those posts - I thought you were directing it at the OP specifically.

          Short of running exclusively a membership site (with NO downloads), this is going to happen with most delivery systems you use. (DLGuard and a few others are supposed to be good for protecting) - but unfortunately people share delivery page links, and google can capture it too.

          Even with the RAP system, about a week or two after having sales up, they suddenly disappear - not that they're going to others, but because someone has either shared the download location or simply just totally shared your content for free.

          Quite irritating, but that's another story/rant. LOL.

          I will note, that as far as I know, RAP has improved on that... (delivery sharing), and many systems do - but I haven't used it a whole lot since that happened to me a year or so ago. (I mostly stick with logged in content or services for that reason... you can't dupe access to those as easily!)

          But to show how easy it is for people to 'hit' thank you pages and steal content, I had a "commission notification" on one of my affiliate scripts, assigning a commission to one of my affiliates just the other day (on an old offer).

          There were absolutely no sales, no payments came in, and no new users joined the site they "paid" for.

          In other words - someone bypassed everything and got to the thank you page... which did trigger a commission, BUT they couldn't access the actual product/service because it wasn't a download

          Obviously it's an old system I don't use anymore LOL - but you can see that it happens with anything.

          Changing the download/delivery page every 2-3 days is a very good idea.

          Amber
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  • Profile picture of the author golfswingsecret
    I agree with Will about the traffic piece. Yes I realize that I'm not doing a good enough job with traffic but am getting 70 - 100 or so targeted visitors daily but that doesn't explain how changing my delivery page location spurs sales. This is the "weirdness" that has me puzzled. I'll say again that I'm not pointing the finger at anyone or accusing anyone of stealing. Just trying to fix the problem.

    Back to work now.
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  • Profile picture of the author CNP3
    never personally seen this problem or had any issues, but I will have to watch out now! CB is my MAIN source of income, so it's definately something for me to watch out for!

    What "changes" did you make?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by golfswingsecret View Post

    For 2 weeks I didn't make one sale... same traffic, same promotion.. nothing different. So I looked at my awstats for the site and discovered that although I wasn't getting the sales, visitors were still hitting my delivery page at virtually the same rate. Strange! So I changed all my buy links, I also changed the delivery page and all the file names, etc.
    Are you using something like DLGuard to protect your download page, or are you just trying to use hard-to-guess URLs? With the latter, once someone buys, they can share the link.

    Bang... within 15 minutes, I made a sale and was off to the races for a 2 week run of 1-2 sales every day.

    Then it happened again.. Bang then for 10 days... zero sales.. Changed all my stuff... Again within an hour I made a sale and continued at a nice rate for another 2 weeks. In fact, I had my best 2 weeks ever.

    On Tuesday, sales shut off again until yesterday (Friday) when I changed out my deliver page, etc again and like magic, I made 3 sales overnight.

    Does anybody have any idea as to what might be happening? If it's coincidence, it's a big coincidence.
    I suspect you are not using anything to protect your download page. Sounds like you have sales, then someone shares the link. After that, sales drop as people grab it for free. You change the links, and sales pick up again. Until someone shares the download URL. Then sales drop until you change it out again.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    For those that think that this problem is easy to prove or gather evidence for, you're mistaken. I once thought the same thing. I've got analytics up the yinyang. I've got an entire server set up just for my tracking software. However, unless you are a vendor that sells your own product as also an affiliate, it's almost impossible to track a customer all the way through the clickbank process. Especially if clickbank's tracking or cookie system has glitches.

    No one here is saying that ClickBank is stealing money. But there are enough people out here with enough anecdotal evidence that clickbank should be thoroughly researching the problem. Even to the point of redoing their whole hoplink - tracking system all together.

    Here's what I have - My tracking of the problem is on a larger scale than most. I put a lot of money into ppc advertising. Google Adwords to be specific. So I use adword's tracking code. Clickbank will let you enter your unique tracking code into your affiliate account, and then clickbank will put it onto their page after a payment is made. That way you can go into adwords and know which adword your sales are coming from. This conversion code is a unique code, and will not trigger a conversion unless the person buying actually came from one of your adwords ads.

    So this last week I'm running a huge campaign. I'm literally averaging a sale every 3 minutes. With my own tracking software I can in live time see the traffic coming to my site from adwords. I'm also using Clickbank's TIDs, so in real time my tracking software knows exactly which adwords the traffic is coming from. So I'm making a sale every 3 minutes for several hours in a row. And my traffic is steadily increasing because of the time of day. When all of a sudden my sales come to a halt. Just my sales. My traffic is still increasing, and coming from the same google adwords. Now before you go speculating, let me also tell you that I have my campaigns split up by country, and I know exactly down to the city where my traffic is coming from. So I'd know if google started sending me some crappy traffic from china or something. But on this particular day 99.9% of my traffic is from the United States. And with my very targeted traffic on the increase, my sales come to a stop. And I mean from 3 sales per minute to a dead stop for several hours.

    You ever get that sick feeling in your stomach when you've made a great bet, and then loose it all on a "let it ride" bet? That's what happened to me there. And it wasn't the only time. However - and this is the big HOWEVER, this was the first time I had entered my conversion code into clickbanks system as an affiliate. And while my sales were at a complete stop. My adwords conversions kept going up at a fast pace.

    Yikes - that was a long post -

    However I've said of all that to say that I'm actually a ClickBank fanboy. However it's becoming ever more clear that they have a major flaw in their system somewhere. We're not (at least I'm not) accusing anyone of stealing. However to let such a problem continue on for much longer is tantamount to stealing in my book. And even as a fanboy, I won't sit idly by and let them do it. I'll squeak my wheels for as long as I can. But eventually I won't be able to afford to stay w/ clickbank. I sincerely hope that they resolve this soon. They've actually been (and still are) very good to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolverine1971
      I know what you mean about "placing your bet" and then knowing you made the wrong call. On the day that I had the confirmation of a lost sale I also decided to do a broadcast to my list first thing in the morning because I wanted to break this 4 day in a row no sales streak.

      That was my first broadcast email where I did not make a single sale on the day I sent it. I had tons of hops, order form impressions, but no sales. I usually get residual sales from all the late openers of the email and that was still the case - not a single sale on Monday even though 80% of the people that opened it opened on Monday. then Wed,Thurs,Fri all had a few sales trickle in from my list. The 20% of the opens later in the week accounted for 100% of the sales sales from my list. I analyze my numbers under a microscope to see what traffic is converting and at what levels to fix gaps I may have in my sales process so when there is a giant unexplained anomaly that makes no sense at all. Gather evidence and this is all that happens during the course of your calls to Clickbank - 1) it's your fault 2) it's the vendors fault 3) it's not their fault 4) ok, it looks like this could have happened but we have no idea why and can't reverse it anyways.

      #5 should be - figure out what happened and fix it. not, dismiss the affiliate and move on........
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  • Profile picture of the author imehe
    I have used CB for a couple of years now. The first time I contacted them they were very cordial and responded within 7 days. The next time I contacted them about the same issue they did not respond. I would simply say contact them by email over and over.
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  • Profile picture of the author matty-81
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    • Profile picture of the author FSchmieder
      I just want to jump in real quick and say i think the idea of his DL page being shared as the culprit doesn't really make to much sense, if you think about it.

      Maybe if he was selling an IM book or something, but I doubt loads of black hatters are going around looking for golf books and sharing those links on forums. I also doubt that loads of golfer forums are going around sharing it too
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It's just a great shame for all of us that they have no realistic direct competition from anyone actually offering reliably exactly the same service that they're pretending to offer.
        It would seem like a good oppotunity for a group of likeminded Entrepreneurs to pool their finances and start their own company to compete with them.

        (I would except I dont have the finances let alone the contacts)

        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Park
    It never happened to me but it sounds like it does happen, eh? That's odd that a big company like CB would do it to its affiliates. Without us affiliates, they wouldn't stay in business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
    has anyone used the google affiliate network?
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  • Profile picture of the author Vince L
    Hey Golf, I've heard about "Weirdness" like this with CB, but never experienced it myself.
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