your sales page is to long

legitam

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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CDawson

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by legitam

I've kind of wondered this as well. I am brand new to the actual sales page type stuff and have been working on designed my first whole sales page for a product I am soon launched. I've been studying others to figure out what I need to do and some you have to scroll for almost a minute... kind of a turn off to me, but whatever works I guess.

Yea, I understand trying to provide good content about the product as much as possible, but that can be summed up well in a few paragraphs.

Thanks

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. Yes, another thread
about how sales pages are too long.

What amuses me about these threads is this.

How many of these people bitching about long salescopy have actually
split tested long versus short sales copy for their niche?

For that matter, how many of these people have ever written a sales letter
in the first place?

How many of these people make more than bus fare on a monthly basis?

How many of these people do any split testing for anything at all related
to Internet marketing?

How many of these people actually take the time to study why a long
sales letter might actually work?

I could go on with the how many's until the sky turned purple.

But I wonder how many people reading this thread would even care?

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1st-Steps 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

But I wonder how many people reading this thread would even care?

My feelings exactly..Thnx
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CDawson

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. Yes, another thread
about how sales pages are too long.

What amuses me about these threads is this.

How many of these people bitching about long salescopy have actually
split tested long versus short sales copy for their niche?

For that matter, how many of these people have ever written a sales letter
in the first place?

How many of these people make more than bus fare on a monthly basis?

How many of these people do any split testing for anything at all related
to Internet marketing?

How many of these people actually take the time to study why a long
sales letter might actually work?

I could go on with the how many's until the sky turned purple.

But I wonder how many people reading this thread would even care?

Well, it is obvious people have tested long vs short sales pages, if they work better with a crap ton of reassuring information regarding the pitch of their product, so be it.

I don't recall any of your sales pages being lenghty, have you tested this?

Thanks
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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDawson

Well, it is obvious people have tested long vs short sales pages, if they work better with a crap ton of reassuring information regarding the pitch of their product, so be it.

I don't recall any of your sales pages being lenghty, have you tested this?

You will find that the length of a sales page is directly proportional to the
price of the product, with few exceptions.

Most of my products are at the low end of the price scale, and thus don't
need long copy. The one product I sell that goes for $97 is the longest of
all my sales pages.

Think about it. If you're selling a $27 ebook, how much selling do you
have to do?

That's why, when you see a launch for a high end physical product, you
run into 40 page sales letters.

Few people will plunk down between $297 and $1,997 without some
heavy duty selling behind it.

Hope this answers your question.

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Steven Fullman

14 years ago

EDIT:

Steve beat me to it...again!

Damn you, Waggers!

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Steve,

Rather than saying how you could carry on 'til the sky turned purple...why not point them to some of *your* excellent posts, articles, findings, resources, insider tips, knowledge, wisdom, or anything else which might help answer the question?

Best wishes,
Steve

Because at this forum, that would be looked at as self promotional and
the post would only end up getting deleted.

Aside from that, I think I explained the basic principle of "why long sales
copy" in my post above.

That's really it in a nutshell.

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Steven Fullman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Because at this forum, that would be looked at as self promotional and
the post would only end up getting deleted.

Aside from that, I think I explained the basic principle of "why long sales
copy" in my post above.

That's really it in a nutshell.

Hi Wags,

I see you answered the question while I was replying...yours was better.

Warm regards,
Steve

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

There is something else you need to understand about sales letters.

They are designed in such a way where your typical person will check out
the headline, check out the PS, maybe the price, a few bullet points and
testimonials and THEN...if they like what they read so far, they'll go back
and start reading the rest of the sales letter.

And then there are those types who just read from beginning to end.

So the sales letter is designed to reach as wide an audience as possible.

There's more to it, but I'll keep this relatively short.
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JayXtreme

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. Yes, another thread
about how sales pages are too long.

What amuses me about these threads is this.

How many of these people bitching about long salescopy have actually
split tested long versus short sales copy for their niche?

For that matter, how many of these people have ever written a sales letter
in the first place?

How many of these people make more than bus fare on a monthly basis?

How many of these people do any split testing for anything at all related
to Internet marketing?

How many of these people actually take the time to study why a long
sales letter might actually work?

I could go on with the how many's until the sky turned purple.

But I wonder how many people reading this thread would even care?

This.

There really is nothing more to it.

Sure,

There are some people who will use a "long sales page", simply because they see someone else doing it.

But the majority of sales pages are that length because they have been split tested and proven to be the most effective.

How long does a sales page need to be?

Long enough to give the end user enough information
to make their purchasing decision

Having said that... Some people can do it with only 5 lines

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ozduc 14 years ago

Here is another way of testing what works. Go back and look at all the products you have purchased online in the last 2 years and compare the length of the sales page to those you didn't buy, but looked at. What are the results?
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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

How long does a sales page need to be?

How Long is a Chinaman's name.

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JohnMcCabe 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

How Long is a Chinaman's name.

I thought How Long used to play for the Raiders...:p

There's a third element to add to the long v. short debate. We have to add the skill with which the long copy was crafted.

Real prospects will read a well-written, properly structured sales letter almost regardless of the length. No one will read a crap letter no matter how short it is. Results will vary in between.
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Andy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

How Long is a Chinaman's name.

Yes. Yes it is.

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Colin Theriot

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

How Long is a Chinaman's name.

Also Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian American. Please.

Originally Posted by BeauJustin

I once helped with a launch for a $400 training product, which
amounted to a half page of ultra-informative copy, very little
(if any) hype, which was made up mostly of testimonials from
the test groups.

The guy literally filled the 100 order limit within two days.

The difference was in his pre-launch, which was about 2-3
months before hand, to an intimate list of about 1000 people
( which itself was a hot-list of interested buyers from his
larger list which was 5k-6k at the time).

It was really, really powerful stuff.

So, while the salesletter itself was skimpy on the copy, he
probably could have compiled two separate books from the
email conversations held with his list before hand.

In this situation the salesletter was irrelevant. By the time
he did his launch, the buyers were rabid. I doubt many of
them even read the copy before they purchased. The rest
of his list was asking when the next class would open. ;-)

This is primarily how I work when I write for others, doing massive prelaunch and persona and positioning well before the product goes on sale. It's great for house traffic, and if it's a limited seat product, that's often all you need.

Unfortunately, sometimes it can backfire if you don't have enough of a salesletter there for cold traffic (or affiliate traffic). This is why you want multiple break-points in the long salesletter so the people who want to buy can just skip it and buy.

The rest of the letter is there for explaining more details for the people who don't already know.

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theemperor

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. Yes, another thread
about how sales pages are too long.

What amuses me about these threads is this.

How many of these people bitching about long salescopy have actually
split tested long versus short sales copy for their niche?

For that matter, how many of these people have ever written a sales letter
in the first place?

How many of these people make more than bus fare on a monthly basis?

How many of these people do any split testing for anything at all related
to Internet marketing?

How many of these people actually take the time to study why a long
sales letter might actually work?

I could go on with the how many's until the sky turned purple.

But I wonder how many people reading this thread would even care?

Steve, wholeheartedly agree!

I imagine very few people who buy products from a long sales page read every word, and there is this thing called a scroll bar on the right hand side that helps the reader find the information within the page they need. Also many calls to action along the way for that tipping point where they have made their mind up.

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wishinglists Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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- x3xsolxdierx3x 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by wishinglists
  
  hmmm.. don't think a too long sales page is going to work well...visitors will have to spend long time reading
  
  Who cares how long they spend reading, so long as they purchase....that's the point, right?
  
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- Vogin 14 years ago
  
  Don't concern yourself with long or short. Just write everything the buyer needs to know about the product...
  
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x3xsolxdierx3x

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

It's like too long, man. I can look at something and know like in two seconds whether or not I want to buy it. Like when I'm at the mall and I walk by the booth where they sell those tattoo stickers. Sometimes I want one and sometimes I don't.

Know what I mean?

Many people are impulsive and buy based on emotion....and, if someone is remotely interested, they WILL read through a long captivating sales letter, and even purchase at the end.

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Neil Morgan

14 years ago

I don't see how visitors can read the sales page all the way down for 3 hours.

That's easy. People who are interested in buying your product want as much information as they can get.

Testing is important because it's horses for courses in this game.

Cheers,

Neil

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createyouwealth

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Neil Morgan

That's easy. People who are interested in buying your product want as much information as they can get.

Testing is important because it's horses for courses in this game.

Cheers,

Neil

Good advice neil

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timpears

14 years ago

I know for a fact, that I often think, is this sales pitch ever going to end. I will just say the hell with it and close the page. But that is me, and I don't buy a whole hell of a lot. I feel that if it takes that many words to convince me, then it is way over my head anyway.

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SolomonHuey

14 years ago

Even on my free to join sites, I tried cutting down the copy because it was insanely long for something that was free... and the longest version still converted the best!

Solomon Huey

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BeauJustin

14 years ago

I once helped with a launch for a $400 training product, which
amounted to a half page of ultra-informative copy, very little
(if any) hype, which was made up mostly of testimonials from
the test groups.

The guy literally filled the 100 order limit within two days.

The difference was in his pre-launch, which was about 2-3
months before hand, to an intimate list of about 1000 people
( which itself was a hot-list of interested buyers from his
larger list which was 5k-6k at the time).

It was really, really powerful stuff.

So, while the salesletter itself was skimpy on the copy, he
probably could have compiled two separate books from the
email conversations held with his list before hand.

In this situation the salesletter was irrelevant. By the time
he did his launch, the buyers were rabid. I doubt many of
them even read the copy before they purchased. The rest
of his list was asking when the next class would open. ;-)

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Dietriffic

14 years ago

How does one of the best living copywriters sell his $5,000 product?

He uses an 80 page sales pitch.

Marketing Bullets

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

As a consumer, I've always believed that if your product is good and it can resolve a problem, you don't need more than few paragraphs to explain what it's about and why do I need it.

Again, as a consumer, long pitches kill my conversions because I don't have time to read through a 10-page sales page. Plus in my opinion, 90% of long sales pages are mostly unnecessary bluff that addresses no particular point - just plain and shameless pitch. Cut it down to the chase already!

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You will find that the length of a sales page is directly proportional to the
price of the product, with few exceptions.

Steve, that's true, but there's also something else about long vs short copy which gets overlooked:

Q: When should a long sales letter be used?
A: When the prospect is cold

Q: When should a short sales letter be used?
Q: When the price is low, and/or the prospect is warm

The problem (and reason why this debate continues day after day) is because people are trying to oversell to warm prospects, or undersell to cold prospects.

Hardly anyone I've seen in this business actually has two distinct versions of their sales copy to present to either cold or warm prospects, and that's why many people suffer with their sales.

No company relies on one sales pitch to sell their products, nor do they rely on one sales person. Horses and courses.

But the ultimate, "post it note" answer to this would be:

Longer the better.

Why? Because warm prospects can pick what they want to read in the letter when there's enough information.

Cold prospects also get everything they need to make a decision at the same time.

When the letter is short, nobody gets what they want... unless you know exactly who's reading and the fact that they only need one set of bullets and an order button (typically an ultra responsive subscriber would fall into this category, at best.)

And let's not forget the other "post it note" answer for this debate...

If you find the letter too long, then you are not the target market.

Think about it - if you had a real messy and expensive divorce, and a website showed you how to save all your fees and even a way to win custody over your kids, would you complain that there was a lot of information explaining what their service does, how it does it, and what it will do for you?

Hardly.

I could give more exaggerated examples, like if you had a killer virus and someone had a PDF with a home remedy... and again, would you argue of the length of the sales letter it took to sell it to you?

Hardly. In fact, you'd probably read that sucker up and down twice.

I'm gonna have to cut and paste this sooner or later, as this is a regular question in this forum. Can't we make it a sticky?!!

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

There are some people who will use a "long sales page", simply because they see someone else doing it.

How long does a sales page need to be?

Long enough to give the end user enough information
to make their purchasing decision

Having said that... Some people can do it with only 5 lines

BINGO. And the reason why people say sales letters don't serve a purpose? Because they're reading crappy copy.

I wouldn't pay more than £15 for box of paint, but I'd pay £10,000 for a Michelangelo original. Go figure.

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Raydal

14 years ago

As a copywriter I provide alternative paths in the long sales copy
to meet different style readers. That's the purpose of subheads
so people can skip the sections they feel they don't need to read
and yet still get the gist of what you are saying.

Most people may not read every word but the copywriter must
find ways to present all his selling points to those who want to
learn as much as possible.

And anyone would read a 1,000 page book if it's about them.

Write about the prospect and not about yourself and you'll
be surprised how much he reads.

-Ray Edwards

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PaulBaranowski 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

Write about the prospect and not about yourself and you'll
be surprised how much he reads.

-Ray Edwards

Golden words here!
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bizfox

14 years ago

Some people see long sales letters as more trustworthy. It really depends on your target market. Older customers like long well written sales letters.

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x3xsolxdierx3x

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDawson

What is up with these sales pages that seem like they don't end, I don't know about you, but I am creating a sales page right now and I don't see how visitors can read the sales page all the way down for 3 hours.

For the audience they are intended for, the longer pages are meant to effectively address any possible worry or concern that one could have about purchasing the product....

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WillR

14 years ago

Longer is not always better - well not in the case of sales letters anyway. :-)

The ideal length is that which gives the reader all the information they need without going so far as to lose their original interest and desire for the product.

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jasonl70 14 years ago

"Who reads long copy?"
Dan Kennedy says: "buyers - that's who".

QUOTE=Ken_Caudill;2244336]It's like too long, man. I can look at something and know like in two seconds whether or not I want to buy it. Like when I'm at the mall and I walk by the booth where they sell those tattoo stickers. Sometimes I want one and sometimes I don't.

Know what I mean?[/QUOTE]

lol.. and how much do those tattoo stickers cost? You really can't compare trivial expenses for trivial products that fulfill fairly simple needs/desires.

Here's the real problem: there's a ton of really crappy sales copy out there.. a ton of people writing long copy simply to write long copy. The problem is BAD copy - which is exasperated when dragged on for page after page
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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

There's nothing I like better than a totally
original thread full of new information that's
never been discussed before...

...any idea where I can find one of those?

Happy Fathers Day, Daddy Warriors.

Brian

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CurtisN

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

There's nothing I like better than a totally
original thread full of new information that's
never been discussed before...

...any idea where I can find one of those?

Happy Fathers Day, Daddy Warriors.

Brian

Here's one for ya Brian:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-sex-bird.html

Curtis

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InternetSuccess001 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CurtisN

Here's one for ya Brian:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-sex-bird.html

Curtis

Haha, now that was funny! Although not every female is like that
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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

...any idea where I can find one of those?

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ty-thread.html
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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Do you, or anyone else, know of an independent market survey that actually tests consumer reaction to long sales letters on the net?

As the Page Scrolls

Long Copy vs. Short Copy Tested
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InternetSuccess001

14 years ago

I think you have to figure out what works best for your particular situation. I have actually found in some cases that short and sweet works best -- but then it is the 'market' you are marketing to.

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Ruth Hendrickson 14 years ago

Yes some sales pages are ridiculously long. Most people don't read every word of a sales page -- they skim it. That's why it's important to use subheadings and bullets. But with high priced products, you might be surprised at the number of people who actually do read every word on the sales page.
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ACGroup1

14 years ago

I don't think a sales page can be to long, I do believe it can be too boring. Listen, people are already weary about making an online purchase, especially about a product they are interested in but don't feel they have enough information about. A lot of people will buy a product from eBay and pay more for it because of the product reviews and buyer feedback, the more the better, and the buyer protection they offer.
When writing a sales page you should give enough information to answer all the questions, provide testimonials, and make the prospect feel really comfortable about buying from you. This will generally take more than a couple of sentences.

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John Atkins

14 years ago

I doubt that anyone who refuses to buy from a long salespage
will buy from a short salespage. Don't you think?

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Rob Whisonant

14 years ago

I have never read the sales page of anything I have purchased. I scroll down to the order button and click it. Actually get a little ticked off when I have to scroll a long way just give them money.

But, I guess you would call me a warm prospect. I follow discussions on boards and when I see people liking things that will do the job I am looking for I just go buy it.

I buy from real user experiences and not a hyped sales letter with most likely fake or paid for testimonials.

Re's
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jim90677000

14 years ago

Obviously cannot...your 3 hr sales page.... maybe you want to consider to re-package it into a ebook, or maybe few ebooks to sell....then you can make better money with same effort you put in to create your super-long sales page. Send me complimentary copies of that if you do so.

Many people know a lot, and wish to tell people a lot....but in real life, not many people like to listen or read the 'ALL' you want to tell them. So tell them only what you think they would like to read...go straight to the point.

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kiopa

Banned 14 years ago

Agreed. I'm not sure why people write huge novels for their sales pages either. It's 2010, people are busy. They want clear, concise, easy to read information. Not a novel.

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baggieboyblue

14 years ago

Hi,

Personally I hate long sales letters. Doesn,t matter how good a product is a long sales letter kills it.

If I see something i want i will read the first few paragraphs , if they have grabbed my attention and shown me what i want to see, I just then need to see the price and purchase it. If i have to read another two pages before seeing the price then I just lose interest and then delete the webpage and move on.

A good sales person will grab the customers attention in a few paragraphs, show them a sales price which they like and then complete the sale.

So the moral is " DON'T BORE THE PANTS OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH LONG SALES LETTERS !!!"

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Riz

14 years ago

I think every niche is different and the only way to know what sales copy works best is by split testing.

We have a membership site in the Education niche catering specifically for the uk market.

We split tested long sales copy, short sales copy, bullet points on the home page with an optional link to a long sales copy, bullet points on the home page with an optional link to a short sales copy.

Worst performing - Long sales copy on the home page

2nd worst - Short sales copy

Best performing - Bullet points on the home page, some links to free samples of the member pages, an option to read more (ie a long sales copy)

So my point being, the only way to truly know what works in your niche is by split testing.

Riz

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Daniel Deegan

14 years ago

You may want to try this...Break the sales page into multiple pages instead of a single page. It's more unconventional but it's easier to digest for the reader and makes it feel more like content.

Another advantage is that it's easier to test for leaks in your sales copy since you can tell at what particular page the reader is leaving...So if you see everyone leaving on the 3rd page of your sales message then you have a good idea of a potential problem area in your copy.

Much love,
Daniel D.

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ChrisBa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDawson

What is up with these sales pages that seem like they don't end, I don't know about you, but I am creating a sales page right now and I don't see how visitors can read the sales page all the way down for 3 hours.

While I agree, research has shown that long sales pages tend to convert better than short

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cpa-money

14 years ago

it`s a complete brain wash. some say it works!

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AlanGNW 14 years ago

It's no wonder people make fun of them - like this one... I'm here to sell you dreams, not anything of any value!
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- spud--1 14 years ago
  
  The point of a long sales page is to cover every single angle that the customer could back out of the sale so by the time they have read the whole page all of there concerns and reservations are solved and they are ready to buy.
  
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your sales page is to long

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