Stop following HYPE you are wasting time and losing money.

by niffybranco 19 replies
I read a lot of B.S on the internet and i wonder where do these people get their facts from.

I Stated a site about six weeks ago in a niche that is quite competitive, Despite hearing all the hype about how building links to fast is bad , only comment on related blogs, do not use duplicate content ,you must constantly add new content, your domain name should be aged, yady yady yah.

I went ahead and broke all these rules, i registered 2 new domain names i broke the rules with one and followed the so called rules with the other,

with the one i broke the rules with, i went ahead and built 5000 backlinks in about 3 weeks, i left comments on all sorts of blogs not related to my niche ( do not worry i did not spam them i actually read the blogs and added value) i used mainly duplicate content on the site, and in no time i was on the firs page of google for 2 fairly competitive terms i was getting traffic and i was selling.

What i did however was make sure my backlinks were anchored properly, i used my main keywords and related keywords to anchor my backlinks.

I used keywords that google told me were related to my keyword to build my categories and made sure my categories were displayed on every page.

I did not ping any of my backlinks i left it to google to discover them.
Seriously do you know any normal surfer who pings their comments or social bookmarks. Only people who are trying to get google attention ping.

I built backlinks to my backlinks (hope that makes sense ).

I varied my backlinks i used blog commenting, social bookmarking ,an article network ( seolinkvine to be precise) and a few social networks.

That's all i did.

The other site i am building links to slowly, creating unique content for, only looking for related blogs and sites to get baclinks from is on page 10 or something , getting verry little traffic and making me no money.

So in a nutshell a lot of stuff you read is very good stuff a lot of techniques i learnt from others actually helped me get my site to number 3 on google and number 1 on yahoo, but if i had just listened to a lot of hype i would have both sites on page 10 , not making any money and thinking internet marketing is hard.

Internet marketing is only as hard as you make it.

Next time someone feeds you some scary hype research it yourself by taking action what is the worst that can happen.

For example a lot of folks say google penalizes duplicate content , this is just BS the only time you will be penalized for duplicate content is if you stuff your website with the same content in an attempt to manipulate the search engines , you will not be penalized if you break down a plr book into different web pages or if you use articles from directories. Besides why would you want to have the same content on every page of your website?

This is googles official take on duplicate content

Duplicate content - Webmaster Tools Help

Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Duplicate content due to scrapers

The second link is to a post that was written 2 years ago and it contains the following quote

"To conclude, I'd like to point out that in the majority of cases, having duplicate content does not have negative effects on your site's presence in the Google index."

So carry out you own research use a fresh site buy a domain name and test it out only then will you know if it's true or not.

Hope you find this useful.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #hype #loosing #money #stop #time
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
    Be careful - the danger in building back links too fast is not that it won't work right away - the danger is in that it will work for a little while, then you'll get sandboxed or dumped altogether. Not always, and not sometimes until the next "Google Dance" reaches the part of the index your site is in. But it does happen. Just wanted to make sure you understood the real reason people advise against rapid buildup of new sites. It's that long term, it's risky. Of course, if you build a lot of sites frequently, you can make up for the loss of the ones that get deindexed. It depends on what you're trying to do. Personally, I don't like to pollute the web with trash sites that I know will die. I like to be in it for the long term, all Warren Buffet style.
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    • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
      Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

      Be careful - the danger in building back links too fast is not that it won't work right away - the danger is in that it will work for a little while, then you'll get sandboxed or dumped altogether. Not always, and not sometimes until the next "Google Dance" reaches the part of the index your site is in. But it does happen. Just wanted to make sure you understood the real reason people advise against rapid buildup of new sites. It's that long term, it's risky. Of course, if you build a lot of sites frequently, you can make up for the loss of the ones that get deindexed. It depends on what you're trying to do. Personally, I don't like to pollute the web with trash sites that I know will die. I like to be in it for the long term, all Warren Buffet style.
      The site is mainly an e-commerce site and the targeted keywords are for people looking for the best deal on the particular product which i provide so i do deliver what they want. Also i am making sure i build a list and i am already getting repeat customers so BIG G can dance the samba if they want
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
        Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

        The site is mainly an e-commerce site and the targeted keywords are for people looking for the best deal on the particular product which i provide so i do deliver what they want. Also i am making sure i build a list and i am already getting repeat customers so BIG G can dance the samba if they want
        Sure man - it's totally up to you. I'm just saying, your example doesn't prove anything you heard about the problems of building up too fast, because the sites are too new. The consequences, if they come, are going to come later, usually when the sites are doing great and really kicking in.

        It's great that you're building up those other things too, it would just still suck to have the site your worked and built all those backlinks to vanish from the serps, and then you'd have to start all over with a new domain.

        Nothing more than a friendly reminder from one marketer to another - just be careful.

        Another thing to note, the thing that triggers de-indexing or sandboxing is NOT ONLY the massive influx of link love on a brand new site - but rather when the ONLY link love the site ever gets is in a giant spike when the site is new.

        If you are CONSISTENT in the rate you build backlinks, you stand a better chance of surviving longer. That's why natural sites last longer, because the mathematical curve of the rate of link and content building faces the way it should.
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        • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
          Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

          Sure man - it's totally up to you. I'm just saying, your example doesn't prove anything you heard about the problems of building up too fast, because the sites are too new. The consequences, if they come, are going to come later, usually when the sites are doing great and really kicking in.

          It's great that you're building up those other things too, it would just still suck to have the site your worked and built all those backlinks to vanish from the serps, and then you'd have to start all over with a new domain.

          Nothing more than a friendly reminder from one marketer to another - just be careful.

          Another thing to note, the thing that triggers de-indexing or sandboxing is NOT ONLY the massive influx of link love on a brand new site - but rather when the ONLY link love the site ever gets is in a giant spike when the site is new.

          If you are CONSISTENT in the rate you build backlinks, you stand a better chance of surviving longer. That's why natural sites last longer, because the mathematical curve of the rate of link and content building faces the way it should.
          I did a bit more research and google themselves say there is no penalty for building links too fast , if there were a penalty then there is no need to SEO your own site just send tonnes of crappy links to your competitors and they will get sandboxed .
          As long as you use the right anchor texts and vary them using related keywords you will be fine , besides if you stop building links and your ranking drops it is not because google penalized you it is because your competitors are also fighting for the top spots and they kept building links while you stopped.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

    I read a lot of B.S on the internet and i wonder where do these people get their facts from.
    Good man, keep doing what you're doing. It didn't take long for me to realize that many "internet marketers" are wanna-be internet marketers who think more like consumers (fear-based, and how much will this cost me?) rather than business owners (honestly evaluating risks, and how much will this make me?).

    The problem stems from some of the original "gurus" who taught everyone that they, too, could be like them if they just bought their course (which was a lie many people still defend to this day)... so what you ended up with were, as Gurdjieff would say, a bunch of sheep who never ran for cover but sat around while getting fleeced because they were hypnotized into believing they were lions and eagles.

    I once ran experiments with someone who was a freakish marketer/program designer. I asked him about creating too many backlinks in a short period of time and he said, "do you know how many backlinks are being created every day? some sites are so big they, alone, put up 100s of new pages every day?" The other problem is that those who understand it generally don't share that information so openly and, as you see, those who do get told they're either wrong, or had better beware.

    So kind of you to try though... really. You'll get the picture eventually... remember the "Emperor's New Clothes?"

    Thanks for your sincere effort, though.
    Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      Good man, keep doing what you're doing. It didn't take long for me to realize that many "internet marketers" are wanna-be internet marketers who think more like consumers (fear-based, and how much will this cost me?) rather than business owners (honestly evaluating risks, and how much will this make me?).
      This is totally true, and the OP is right about that attitude - ALWAYS consider the source of your info. ALWAYS consider the context. Trust experience over anything. Don't mean to take away from that at all.

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      The problem stems from some of the original "gurus" who taught everyone that they, too, could be like them... so what you ended up with were, as Gurdjieff would say, a bunch of sheep who never ran for cover but sat around while getting fleeced because they were hypnotized into believing they were lions and eagles.
      Lol @ Gurdjieff. He's a hoot. But yeah, good point - a lot of it has to do with the distortion between opinions and experience. People online generally don't clarify what they're sharing, and then it gets repeated by others who don't and so on.

      And then you have people spouting what everyone thinks is obvious, but it's actually a house of cards built on a single inexperienced opinion.

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      I once ran experiments with someone who was a freakish marketer/program designer. I asked him about creating too many backlinks in a short period of time and he said, "do you know how many backlinks are being created every day? some sites are so big they, alone, put up 100s of new pages every day?"
      Yeah, that's what I was trying to say - of course a large, established site can build backlinks that way organically. They have momentum and a larger base of content to have links built TO. The curve of linkbuilding is correct.

      On the other hand, a brand new site suddenly exploding with content and backlinks looks unnatural. It's the opposite of organic growth, and thus Google doesn't feel it should be deserving of free organic traffic.

      The real focus of GOOD SEO is in automatic organic growth, not in simulating the results of organic growth rapidly and artificially. Those patterns are easier and easier to spot.

      So what you say is true, but also, even more reason to focus on a natural growth curve, only using artificial growth if it's at a rate you can maintain. Spikes that don't level off are bad for your long-term life in the index.

      I will say, this is in my own experience, and in the opinions of some top SEO guys I respect.

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      The other problem is that those who understand it generally don't share that information so openly and, as you see, those who do get told they're either wrong, or had better beware.
      Yeah, we should all share what we know, and be clear about whether that's opinion, or hearsay, or experience. The community would be vastly improved, I agree.

      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      So kind of you to try though... really. You'll get the picture eventually... remember the "Emperor's New Clothes?"

      Thanks for your sincere effort, though.
      Eric
      You know, I love the "maverick proves the establishment wrong" story as much as the next guy, but sometimes the warnings are fair ones. Since the OP seemed to not realize that the consequences aren't initial failure, but eventual failure, I just thought I'd share what I know to make sure he understood.

      I'd keep an eye on that site, and when you build new ones, don't explode out of the gate with more linkage than you can maintain. You want a consistent rate of growth. It can start big, but you have to keep it big.

      Just a friendly "be carful" - if you don't care about the sites dropping, if you plan to keep building new sites, it'll never be a problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChadH
    "What i did however was make sure my backlinks were anchored properly, i used my main keywords and related keywords to anchor my backlinks."

    ^^^^ that's a huge factor right there.

    I actually agree with you... I'm not sure what happens long term, but it definitely does work getting your site indexed fast.

    Case in point, there is a site in a niche we are going into. Last month this site had 12,000 backlinks, this month it has 30,000, 5 months ago the site DID NOT exist.... and it ranks #1 in Google for an extremely competitive and broad word.

    The site gets almost 3 million uniques a month. The one thing about it is it gets tons and tons of user generated content and comments, and I think this is a huge factor.

    Now, when I say it didn't exist 5 months ago, I mean it didn't exist under that domain name. It had a different domain name that got about 2 million uniques a month.

    Which begs the question.... get tons of traffic for 5-6 months at a time and smash and grab or do it longer term and still take the risk you will get de-indexed. Not sure it's so black and white, but if it's something you could replicate every 6 months and keep building your prospect database, why not.

    Google above all seems to always be about relevancy, so if your links are relevant I don't see why you couldn't build them fast.

    I also agree with you about duplicate content. It's more relevant content they seem to look at. If duplicate content was a huge issue, news feed sites would never rank, but they do.

    But I'm not really an SEO guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    Colin is right man, there are risks to the way you're going about things. That's not to say things won't work, but the way Google is evolving - aggressive blind backlinking is not good a strategy for a site you hope to be profiting from long term.

    If you're out to make money in the here and now, sure rock on. If you want a better guarantee of long term stability while building a business then I would tread more carefully.

    And in regards to what Eric said about some sites getting hundreds of backlinks a day, that is indeed true. But the thing is these sites are well established and have a high authority and trust rank.

    For the average Joe or someone starting a new site, they are not going to get the same kudos with Google right out the gate...
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    • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
      Originally Posted by Daniel Deegan View Post

      Colin is right man, there are risks to the way you're going about things. That's not to say things won't work, but the way Google is evolving - aggressive blind backlinking is not good a strategy for a site you hope to be profiting from long term.

      If you're out to make money in the here and now, sure rock on. If you want a better guarantee of long term stability while building a business then I would tread more carefully.

      And in regards to what Eric said about some sites getting hundreds of backlinks a day, that is indeed true. But the thing is these sites are well established and have a high authority and trust rank.

      For the average Joe or someone starting a new site, they are not going to get the same kudos with Google right out the gate...
      If that is so what stops me from looking for new niches with new websites and taking a tool like X-Rumer and blasting them with backlinks . Google knows this can happen and for this reason they will not penalize any site for building links to fast all they will do is take other factors like , keyword density, content, loading time, bounce rate e.t.c into consideration when ranking your site . The only thing is if all you do is build 5000 crappy links and your competitor has better on page SEO and builds 100 good quality links on high PR "webpages" his or her site will rank better than yours
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
        Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

        If that is so what stops me from looking for new niches with new websites and taking a tool like X-Rumer and blasting them with backlinks . Google knows this can happen and for this reason they will not penalize any site for building links to fast all they will do is take other factors like , keyword density, content, loading time, bounce rate e.t.c into consideration when ranking your site . The only thing is if all you do is build 5000 crappy links and your competitor has better on page SEO and builds 100 good quality links on high PR "webpages" his or her site will rank better than yours
        You make a good point that hasn't been addressed - the way you can tell whether it's link spam the site owner is doing, or a competitor is doing is by watching the site over time. This is why it takes a while for you to get deindexed.

        They have to watch and see if your links and content will continue to grow in a normal way. If they never do, it's pretty obvious that it's just a site that's trying to grab free traffic rankings. The key is the curve. It's got to be a site that grows over time in content and in links.

        Google will never punish a site that is growing organically on its own, but I guarantee that as soon as they spot one that's artificially boosted up on SEO steroids, they are going to look at it be a lot more critical of the content.

        If you KEEP doing what you started out doing, at the same level, you should be fine.
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        • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
          Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

          You make a good point that hasn't been addressed - the way you can tell whether it's link spam the site owner is doing, or a competitor is doing is by watching the site over time. This is why it takes a while for you to get deindexed.

          They have to watch and see if your links and content will continue to grow in a normal way. If they never do, it's pretty obvious that it's just a site that's trying to grab free traffic rankings. The key is the curve. It's got to be a site that grows over time in content and in links.

          Google will never punish a site that is growing organically on its own, but I guarantee that as soon as they spot one that's artificially boosted up on SEO steroids, they are going to look at it be a lot more critical of the content.

          If you KEEP doing what you started out doing, at the same level, you should be fine.
          I don't think google has the time to sit around watching links that's why they have an algorithm. If you build links and stop you have to remember your competitors are also linkbuilding and they will soon catch up and your rankings will drop.
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          • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
            Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

            I don't think google has the time to sit around watching links that's why they have an algorithm. If you build links and stop you have to remember your competitors are also linkbuilding and they will soon catch up and your rankings will drop.
            The don't have to watch it. I mean, what the hell do you think Google DOES besides count the pages on your website and how many links you get over time. That's literally ALL Google does, so I'm not sure what you're even talking about.

            I'm saying DON'T stop building links, don't stop building content. This is what gets a lot of sites dropped is they are new, they get massive content and links at the beginning, and then never again. The only traffic they get is the free traffic Google is giving them.

            That will only work until someone tries harder. Then poof. If you want to rank permanently, you have to grow. Not you specifically - anyone. Sites have to grow.

            If you want to continue getting organic traffic, the site has to grow.
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            • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
              Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

              The don't have to watch it. I mean, what the hell do you think Google DOES besides count the pages on your website and how many links you get over time. That's literally ALL Google does, so I'm not sure what you're even talking about.

              I'm saying DON'T stop building links, don't stop building content. This is what gets a lot of sites dropped is they are new, they get massive content and links at the beginning, and then never again. The only traffic they get is the free traffic Google is giving them.

              That will only work until someone tries harder. Then poof. If you want to rank permanently, you have to grow. Not you specifically - anyone. Sites have to grow.

              If you want to continue getting organic traffic, the site has to grow.
              I agree you have to keep adding content cause at the end of the day you are building the site for people not google and a lot of sites are sucsess ful despite not receiving any traffic from google one such site is shoe money for a long time they would not let google index them just to proove a point and they are now one of the biggest sites in the internet marketing niche. So i agree with you you need to provide valueable content.

              I know all google does is watch backlinks e.t.c but what they do is create an algorithm to do it for them and once they see Optimizers are starting to beat their Algo thy tweak it .
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
          Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

          Google will never punish a site that is growing organically on its own, but I guarantee that as soon as they spot one that's artificially boosted up on SEO steroids, they are going to look at it be a lot more critical of the content.
          Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

          The only thing is if all you do is build 5000 crappy links and your competitor has better on page SEO and builds 100 good quality links on high PR "webpages" his or her site will rank better than yours
          These 2 quotes some things up nicely for me personally. Do what Google wants in a way that is not fake or phony and you will be rewarded...Thats not to say you can't get away with manipulating the SERPS now or in the future.

          The risk is there and it's our choice to take it or not. I'm sure in many cases people will use very aggressive SEO tactics and not be penalized. On the flip side as we can see every time there is algorithm change a large group of websites get slapped silly.

          And while you can recover in some cases, it's a vicious cycle. It's worth it to some, definitely not to others.

          In the end all this really boils down to is your own specific goals and objectives...

          The worst thing about all this is the newer folks who don't know the risks of aggressive SEO, they get sucked in and put in a bunch of effort only to have all they have built crash and burn a few months later.
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          • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
            What i have learnt is if you build lots of links and you do not make it look natural the links will only be ignored you will not be penalized (as google cannot say who actually built the links) your quality links will still count. Building a tonne of links and then pinging them all at once is not natural, using the same anchor text for all your links is not natural i know you are meant to use keywords for your links , but try and use CLICK HERE in some places as it looks more organic, vary your linking profile by using different sources , and make sure your site provides value if your readers like your site and pass it on to friends and family it might just go viral which is just as powerful as a number 1 ranking.
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    niffybranco you have a lot of valid points, but I think you might wanna check out Matt Cutts' old videos to answer a few of the questions you might be currently assuming you have the answer to. No offense; but, until you've built a network of sites and taken into consideration all of the variables; (which in and of itself is an oxy moron); you don't have accurate base set data to draw a hypothesis from. Right now, you have very strong theory.

    Your original premise of the post; ...stop following the hype... is right on point. You're also on a pretty solid path with the last thing(s) you're saying about not relying only on the SEs. Kudos to you, bro!

    One thing I like to continuously remind myself is that its impossible to master the Internet because its impossible to master something that's always evolving.

    More power to ya..
    PLP,
    tecHead
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    • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      niffybranco you have a lot of valid points, but I think you might wanna check out Matt Cutts' old videos to answer a few of the questions you might be currently assuming you have the answer to. No offense; but, until you've built a network of sites and taken into consideration all of the variables; (which in and of itself is an oxy moron); you don't have accurate base set data to draw a hypothesis from. Right now, you have very strong theory.

      Your original premise of the post; ...stop following the hype... is right on point. You're also on a pretty solid path with the last thing(s) you're saying about not relying only on the SEs. Kudos to you, bro!

      One thing I like to continuously remind myself is that its impossible to master the Internet because its impossible to master something that's always evolving.

      More power to ya..
      PLP,
      tecHead
      Thanks for the advice and please do not get me wrong , i am not assuming i have all the answers to anything i am just saying it is better to try things out and find out for yourself than to just jump on the hype wagon, there is so much to learn and there are so many things to discover , i'll be a fool to assume i have all the answers. You are right, what i have is a theory but like a lot of people i am at least testing out my theory before trying to tell others what i feel.
      A lot of people just give advise and say this or that is wrong without trying anything out which is a shame. Well on the bright side it means less competition
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    Sweet... somebody you might wanna pay close attention to is Jerry West. He's pretty under the radar, but he's one of the guys out there that has the facilities to have 1000's of sites set up just to watch.

    Whenever he publicizes some data; pay attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

    I read a lot of B.S on the internet and i wonder where do these people get their facts from.
    847 people posted that on various websites in the last three weeks.
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