Google Cracking Down Spun Articles

by Didi
107 replies
Hello Warriors,

When I checked my emails this morning, I came across one from a certain marketer who was doing certain promotion about some kind of backlinking system.

One of the things that he mentioned that caught my attention was this :

'Article spinning has become very popular, but Google has also started to crack down on this and they have systems in place to remove spun content from their index.'

Guys, how true is this?

When it comes to content writing, writing your own articles is one of the best solution simply because they are 100% unique as it comes from you and no else or, you could simply outsource it if you want to.

But when it comes to doing some backlinking to your website, maybe doing something like link wheels, submitting your articles to directories, web 2.0 websites, process that requires you to submit content into their network for you to be able to build links back to your side, spinning of articles could come in handy.

When it comes to this kind of baclinking process (in this case, doing it manually), article spinning saves you lots of time rather than having to write lots of articles which could take up a lot of your time.

So, if it's true that Google is able to trace spun articles, what is the next best solution towards this problem? Not all marketers have the time to write hundreds of articles per day or even have the budget to outsource the work especially for those who are starting out on doing Internet Business.

Spinning of articles can be one, powerful solution if done right but if Google is able to crack this down, then spinning of articles would be a waste time. Just sharing some thoughts with you guys and I appreciate if you could give me some of your opinion. Thanks guys.

Regards,
Didi
#articles #cracking #google #spun
  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Spun articles provide little to no value and duplicate content is largely a myth.
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  • Profile picture of the author mike.leembruggen
    yes... spun articles may not provide value... but it depends on what your purpose is.

    If you are just looking for a backlink... or lots of them... then spun articles are fine... you don't need them to rank highly or convert prospects.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tygrupe
      It would be interesting to know if google has a new algorithm that can reverse engineer spun content, although I would guess that each program is a little unique in the code of how it rewords content with the synonym index. It seems like it would be extremely difficult to really discern this unless the articles are the same word count, paragraph count, etc.

      If just looking for backlinks I would think it is fine to use the spun content as long as they are getting indexed that is.
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  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
    Originally Posted by Didi View Post

    I came across one from a certain marketer who was doing certain promotion about some kind of backlinking system.
    I think you're taking a test drive with Tobey...

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  • Profile picture of the author TimG
    I'm not sure that Google is cracking down on articles/content that is created from an article spinner. What I believe they are targeting is shallow content which is probably a nice way of saying garbage content.

    However, even if they are targeting spun content then the best course of action is to hand write and submit content to the directories/websites you care about the most that offer you the most ROI for your article marketing efforts and only submit spun content to the second tier directories which send micro amounts of traffic back to your site (if any at all).

    This way if your spun content on the second tier sites is de-indexed/banished it won't hurt you too bad. Keep in mind that a few high quality backlinks are worth far more then hundreds of low grade backlinks.

    Respectfully,
    Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      I'm not sure that Google is cracking down on articles/content that is created from an article spinner. What I believe they are targeting is shallow content which is probably a nice way of saying garbage content.<snip>
      Yeah? So, why does the New York Times rank so well on Google?
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      • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Yes, here is what he has to say.

        End of discussion.
        Actually, Steven, the end of the discussion as the 16-year-old kid so aptly put it was...

        Of course, I'm not saying that you should just put all your efforts into marketing - again, content is part of marketing - you have to deliver.

        Not necessarily the best content, but "good enough" content to keep them coming back.

        So in conclusion: Marketing is king.
        That golden nugget of truth will always reign supreme in the business world!

        Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

        Sorry to say but this 16 year is talking rubbish as online is not offline...
        He may be talking rubbish BUT when you are on the 1st page of the SERPs on a highly contested keyword phrase, YOU CAN TALK all the SMACK you want because you don't reach such a perch on a fluke.

        His analogies may be grossly juvenile but as they say, "The proof is in the rankings!" And he's definitely got that.

        If you start researching other highly contested keyword phrases - at the top of the summit in the SERPs, more often than not, you are not going to find great content reigning supreme. What you're going to find is so so content that couldn't place in a 9th grade high school writing contest. But, the site arrived at the spot because of savvy Internet Marketing. Even beating out sites with far superior content.

        Does this mean a wordsmith should water down their award winning journalistic, editorial and literary abilities? By all means, NO! It just means that those engaged in highly contested markets and fiercely competitive niches must remember this profound statement made by Kurt Melvin...

        WARNING: If you're not willing to learn the skills and techniques needed to become a REAL top level SEOer...Then be prepared to compete against us!
        In the IM game, savvy IMers are getting to the top of the SERPs because they have learned and mastered the skills, techniques and strategies to do so; not because they have the best content or even great content for that matter.

        Some of them (like in the previous example that I gave) are using 4th class swiped content that they scraped from other sites and they just leave the link of the original author in tact. Call them lazy all you want but they are laughing all the way to the bank!

        Giles, the Crew Chief
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        • Profile picture of the author moneymarker
          Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

          Actually, Steven, the end of the discussion as the 16-year-old kid so aptly put it was...

          That golden nugget of truth will always reign supreme in the business world!



          He may be talking rubbish BUT when you are on the 1st page of the SERPs on a highly contested keyword phrase, YOU CAN TALK all the SMACK you want because you don't reach such a perch on a fluke.

          His analogies may be grossly juvenile but as they say, "The proof is in the rankings!" And he's definitely got that.
          You're too focused on your argument you're forgeting Google's ulitmate goal.

          "To end all search"

          The kid's site maybe on top of the the SERPs ( or any other rubbish) but observe how long such sites maintain that position).

          Btw, the kid's site is gone
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          • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
            Originally Posted by moneymarker View Post

            You're too focused on your argument you're forgeting Google's ulitmate goal.

            "To end all search"

            The kid's site maybe on top of the the SERPs ( or any other rubbish) but observe how long such sites maintain that position).

            Btw, the kid's site is gone
            You're joking right?

            Search - Make money online - he's still there. Make Money Online With The Kidblogger

            What are you talking about?

            Giles, the Crew Chief
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            • Profile picture of the author moneymarker
              Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

              You're joking right?

              Search - Make money online - he's still there.

              What are you talking about?

              Giles, the Crew Chief
              Observe closely , dude

              Google is doing a dance on his site...

              When you saw my first post, it wasn't in the first page..

              Now he's back...spot #7.... then you'll see him gone again
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    • Profile picture of the author adesbarats
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      I'm not sure that Google is cracking down on articles/content that is created from an article spinner. What I believe they are targeting is shallow content which is probably a nice way of saying garbage content.

      However, even if they are targeting spun content then the best course of action is to hand write and submit content to the directories/websites you care about the most that offer you the most ROI for your article marketing efforts and only submit spun content to the second tier directories which send micro amounts of traffic back to your site (if any at all).

      This way if your spun content on the second tier sites is de-indexed/banished it won't hurt you too bad. Keep in mind that a few high quality backlinks are worth far more then hundreds of low grade backlinks.

      Respectfully,
      Tim
      Hey Tim,

      But why spin at all? My understanding is that this whole dupped content is a complete myth created through a misunderstanding of Google's TOS. What Google does not want is having someone take the same article and plaster it all over their own web site - this is what I believe Google refers to when they refer to duplicate content.

      Having the same article published on several or hundreds of sites is not duplicate content - it's multiple syndication and in Google's eyes that's good as it signifies content of value.

      Based on that assumption, spinning is a big waste of time and if anything might hurt a sites rep if the content gets out there in a garbled, nonsensical format.
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      • Profile picture of the author danemorgan
        Originally Posted by adesbarats View Post

        My understanding is that this whole dupped content is a complete myth created through a misunderstanding of Google's TOS. What Google does not want is having someone take the same article and plaster it all over their own web site - this is what I believe Google refers to when they refer to duplicate content.
        The whole path of the duplicate content discussion got started when a couple of marketers discovered the idea of doorway pages lo these many years ago. Then cam scripts that took a block of text and a list of keywords, inserting each keyword into the block of text and spitting out a new page with that as content.

        This actually worked fro some time and is what prompted G to look at duplicate content and prompted the TOS section on it. There really is a duplicate content penalty for this kind of activity.

        What most people refer to as duplicate content today, bears no real resemblance to this though. Even auto spun articles (which are of debatable value, given that pure dupe articles can fare just as well in wide syndication) are not really the same thing.

        For "duplicate content" syndicated across several sites, there really isn't any penalty as such. In most cases you will find that the article is only going to show up in the SERPs once for a given search, the rest of the copies being having been relegated to the supplemental index, though there are rare occasions when even the same identical article on several different sites can show up prominently in the SERPs.

        As many people have pointed out, the real value in spun articles is syndication of the link payload that they carry. The spinning itself is of little consequence, it is only the link that matters and if these marketers could syndicate the link without articles, or if they could write new articles as quickly and easily as they can spin these articles, there would be no article spinners.

        Conversely, the real thing that Google could easily look at and put stop to a lot of this link syndication is the places that accept these things in the first place. I would find it pretty difficult to believe that Google doesn't own a couple copies of pretty much every spinner and submitter out there, and I'd be further stunned to learn that they don't know exactly what sites out there have pretty much nothing but spun articles carrying nothing but a link payload.

        What they are or will do with that information is one of those things you can only test for and guess at, because they ain't going to be posting anything easily readable by the masses on the subject.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimG
        Originally Posted by adesbarats View Post

        Hey Tim,

        But why spin at all? My understanding is that this whole dupped content is a complete myth created through a misunderstanding of Google's TOS. What Google does not want is having someone take the same article and plaster it all over their own web site - this is what I believe Google refers to when they refer to duplicate content.

        Having the same article published on several or hundreds of sites is not duplicate content - it's multiple syndication and in Google's eyes that's good as it signifies content of value.

        Based on that assumption, spinning is a big waste of time and if anything might hurt a sites rep if the content gets out there in a garbled, nonsensical format.
        The arguement for or against spinning articles at least in my mind is not based around a duplicate content issue. Instead, I look at it purely from a user experience viewpoint.

        Some folks will argue that they don't like spun content because they can't stand to see rehased information all over the place and I see the rational behind that thought process.

        On the other hand, there are those that don't like to see the exact same content all over the place either and I tend to fall on that side of the fence.

        Consider this, You submit the same article to 5 different article directories and by some miracle you end up getting all 5 articles ranked in the top 5 on Google for the intended keyword phrase and a web surfer conducts a search for the keyword phrase and gets your 5 articles in the top 5 spots as their results.

        Now, what happens if they click on the first result and hate your article so they immediately click back and click on the second listing which just so happens to be your same article.

        Of course, they are getting a bit upset because they hate your article so they click back again and choose the third result which happens to be your article which they hate....talk about frustrating.

        At the very least, if you spin your content and submit it to 5 different directories and they all rank in the top 5 you give yourself 5 different chances to get that visitor to your website.

        Maybe they hate version 1 and 2 of your article but for some reason they fall in love with version 3.

        I know this is all open to debate but things like this could happen.

        Heck, as a fisherman you can have 10 copies of the same fishing lure but with each one having a different color scheme...why is that? Because even though it is the same fishing lure, different colors work for different fish.

        Spinning articles isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't about putting out rehashed garbage. It is about putting yourself in the best position at numerous locations with your quality content in order to funnel a vistor to your website.

        Respectfully,
        Tim
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        • Profile picture of the author thaismr
          Originally Posted by TimG View Post


          Spinning articles isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't about putting out rehashed garbage. It is about putting yourself in the best position at numerous locations with your quality content in order to funnel a vistor to your website.

          Respectfully,
          Tim
          I see it the same way.

          I agree with what many of you said, that Google doesn't penalize you for duplicate content, but it won't index them all either. He will index each article one time only.

          Spinning quality articles, for me, is useful when submiting to EZA and other sites that can get to first page of Google, because you cannot use repeat content; but also cannot use garbage content, or it will be deleted. Same for hubpages, zimbio, ...

          Spinning it and making manual changes to the text, adding different bullet points, different paragraph headers and different images in different positions, adding or subtracting paragraphs, changing the number of words in the article, that will do the work for me, without having to start a new article from scratch.
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        • Profile picture of the author adesbarats
          Hi Tim,

          Your point is well taken. I can see a hybrid approach being beneficial IMHO:

          - Produce quality hand spun versions and hand submit to your top 6 - 10 article directories. The directories which you feel can bring you quality traffic.

          - Then submit just one version via an articlebot to hundreds of inconsequential directories for the primary purpose of creating backlinks.

          Originally Posted by TimG View Post

          The arguement for or against spinning articles at least in my mind is not based around a duplicate content issue. Instead, I look at it purely from a user experience viewpoint.

          Some folks will argue that they don't like spun content because they can't stand to see rehased information all over the place and I see the rational behind that thought process.

          On the other hand, there are those that don't like to see the exact same content all over the place either and I tend to fall on that side of the fence.

          Consider this, You submit the same article to 5 different article directories and by some miracle you end up getting all 5 articles ranked in the top 5 on Google for the intended keyword phrase and a web surfer conducts a search for the keyword phrase and gets your 5 articles in the top 5 spots as their results.

          Now, what happens if they click on the first result and hate your article so they immediately click back and click on the second listing which just so happens to be your same article.

          Of course, they are getting a bit upset because they hate your article so they click back again and choose the third result which happens to be your article which they hate....talk about frustrating.

          At the very least, if you spin your content and submit it to 5 different directories and they all rank in the top 5 you give yourself 5 different chances to get that visitor to your website.

          Maybe they hate version 1 and 2 of your article but for some reason they fall in love with version 3.

          I know this is all open to debate but things like this could happen.

          Heck, as a fisherman you can have 10 copies of the same fishing lure but with each one having a different color scheme...why is that? Because even though it is the same fishing lure, different colors work for different fish.

          Spinning articles isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't about putting out rehashed garbage. It is about putting yourself in the best position at numerous locations with your quality content in order to funnel a vistor to your website.

          Respectfully,
          Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author Alminc
            If you spin articles like they do at TheLeadingArticles[dot]com with their
            Ultra Spinnable Articles (on paragraph level, sentence level and word/phrase level) then your output articles should have no problem with google.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimG
            Originally Posted by adesbarats View Post

            Hi Tim,

            Your point is well taken. I can see a hybrid approach being beneficial IMHO:

            - Produce quality hand spun versions and hand submit to your top 6 - 10 article directories. The directories which you feel can bring you quality traffic.

            - Then submit just one version via an articlebot to hundreds of inconsequential directories for the primary purpose of creating backlinks.
            Exactly - For the high traffic directories I go as far as writing an individual article for each directory and for the lower traffic directories (2nd tier) I'm content to either mass submit a single article or several spun variations to be mass submitted.

            At the end of the day any article marketing campaign comes down to how much time you have on your hands to run the campaign, where you want to submit your content, what you are trying to achieve with your campaign and what is or is not working for you personally as an article marketer.

            Respectfully,
            Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlePrince
    If you write a great article and manually spin it, there won't be a problem. The issues is that 'spun' to most people means put through a spinner, which is the article equivalent of putting a cheeseburger in the blender. Yes, it's technically still a cheeseburger, but... it does no one any good.

    Just spin your article manually (brackets and whatnot) and you'll be fine :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      As someone who uses the Internet for more than just marketing, and has relied on Google for over a decade as the way to find good information, I'm totally behind crackdowns on spun content. Nothing worse IMO than finding the same info over and over and over again - with nothing more than a rearrangement of words. I look forward to more unique content. Let's meet the challenge!
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        As someone who uses the Internet for more than just marketing, and has relied on Google for over a decade as the way to find good information, I'm totally behind crackdowns on spun content. Nothing worse IMO than finding the same info over and over and over again - with nothing more than a rearrangement of words. I look forward to more unique content. Let's meet the challenge!
        As a person who employs the World Wide Web for more than merchandising, and has swore on Google for more than a ten years as the way to find dependable facts, I am completely down on crackdowns on spun out articles. Nada sorrier in my opinion than encountering the cookie-cutter information time and again and once again - with naught more than a rearrangement of phrases. I look ahead to a lot of incomparable substance. Let us take on the challenge!
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  • Profile picture of the author ocsSEO01
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    When did they ever do well?
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  • Profile picture of the author syndy
    Spin articles is one of the good way to get back link, if you are only focusing on backlinks. But if google crack it down then the effort should go wasted.
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    • Profile picture of the author markharrison04
      I'm not sure that they are but as Kevin Riley said in his post above, there is a huge amount of rubbish out there and anything that can clean it up is a massive step forward in my opinion.

      I also think that article sites are one of the main reasons for this, take a look at some keywords on the main ones and then look at some of the articles...most of them are the same!
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Google already has a semi-effective way to crack down on junk content...the bounce rate. It closely monitors bounce rates. If a web page is not written well or clearly and the reader "bounces" without clicking thru, the bounce rate goes up. This is a red flag in the algorithm which ends up in the SERP for that page slowly dropping out of existence.
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      Google already has a semi-effective way to crack down on junk content...the bounce rate. It closely monitors bounce rates. If a web page is not written well or clearly and the reader "bounces" without clicking thru, the bounce rate goes up. This is a red flag in the algorithm which ends up in the SERP for that page slowly dropping out of existence.
      Yep, I like how they penalized Digg, Delicious and StumbleUpon for their high bounce rate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

      Bottom line, this is a myth. User activity like this cannot be accurately tracked and can be easily gamed. As someone else recently pointed out, do you see anyone offering "bounce rate improvement" services?
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      Google already has a semi-effective way to crack down on junk content...the bounce rate. It closely monitors bounce rates. If a web page is not written well or clearly and the reader "bounces" without clicking thru, the bounce rate goes up. This is a red flag in the algorithm which ends up in the SERP for that page slowly dropping out of existence.
      It is true! Google is cracking down on spun articles. They will no longer be accepted! This has been confirmed people!

      I saw GASP, the Google Article Spinning Pinpointers just this morning before the crack of dawn. These dudes all have IQ's higher than Marilyn vos Savant and are as sharp as a brand spankin new double edged razor blade. They know how to take a spun article that passes Dupe Cop and Copyscape with flying flipping colors and STILL red flag it!

      They employ detection tactics that make those folks at Quantico look like a bunch of bumbling three stooge idiots.

      Think you're going to spin ANY article and it pass?

      Forgetaboutit!

      The Google Article Spinning Pinpointers can go through and simultaneously compare 200 articles to all of the Search Engines, Web 2.0 properties, Article Directories, Social Bookmarking sites, Free Web hosts, Cheap Web hosts, Blogger Accts, WordPress accts, PAD sites, RSS feeds, Meta Search Engines, Press Releases, DOCU sites and video marketing sites in less than 03.001 seconds.

      Be afraid people... be very afraid!

      If you want to beat GASP, you probably should purchase this person's Miracle Ninja Backlinking system because its the NEW way and NEW wave of SEO that no one is privy to; unless you buy his system.

      Hail, he convinced me and I haven't even read his sales page!

      I'm buying his program NOW! Why the rush? Because the word is, GASP is going to scan every article on the World Wide Web by July 04th!

      We've got three days people! Three days!

      /* Sarcasm over with.

      Here we go again, yet another fear factor Y2K IM related pronouncement. In one regard, you almost have to take your hats off to these knuckleheads. They succeed at constantly repackaging these: secrets, special tactics and clandestine white hat strategies and pawn them off as being so deep, profound and powerful that the masses (Of Newbies) feel compelled to buy them over and over and over again and again. Talk about spinning; they are master spinners!

      I received a similar email on the spinning subject and the GURU closed with this...

      PPS - This is a special link and has not shared with everyone (is by
      invitation only)... (Yeah, right!)

      The video on the main site has already been pulled.

      The clock is ticking...

      The time is now...

      Go!
      Yeah, buddy the checks in the mail!

      Wait for it...
      Wait for it...
      Wait for it...
      And now back to the previous scheduled task... spinning articles :rolleyes:

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    • Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      Google already has a semi-effective way to crack down on junk content...the bounce rate. It closely monitors bounce rates. If a web page is not written well or clearly and the reader "bounces" without clicking thru, the bounce rate goes up. This is a red flag in the algorithm which ends up in the SERP for that page slowly dropping out of existence.
      Excellent bit of advice thebitbotdotcom. Thanks for sharing. This makes the background movement of Google much clearer for me. Thanks...


      Andrea, the English Webmistress
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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    Google has had systems inpace for removing auto generated non-sensical content for several years. If your spins are poor quality and dont read then you might be getting removed. If it reads OK your fine.

    Worst that happens is the article gets geindexed and you lose a link.
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  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    A properly spun article should be hard to seperate from the original.

    Google can't find correctly spun articles, there's no inherent pattern.

    It's people who autospin without intially manually changing sentence
    structure and paragraph positions, word count etc.

    Anybody who thinks just replacing snyo's with syno's is going to fool
    Google nowadays ain't "getting it".
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    • Profile picture of the author Plish
      I doubt it's possible for Google to successfully target spun articles. At the end of the day they have to be 100% right if they want to remove someone's content from the internet. They can't just go around with an algo that is trashing quality articles every 50 times.

      Spun articles have their place in link building but as said above, they're incredibly useless for actually converting traffic.

      Any content that I want to hand write as a quality article with calls to action, I'll submit to EzineArticles. Anything else can get spun and submitted to tons of sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author ordinary_joe
    Is it the fact that the article is spun or the quality after the spin...I wouldnt believe until I tested it...just my 2 cents.

    Desmond
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  • Profile picture of the author Anoopchawla
    OP, I don't think google has become so advanced that it can trace spun article. If your article is 75% unique it will pass google duplicate filters.

    One more thing Google is not made by Gods so it's not perfect, it's made by humans so it is as imperfect as humans.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Hey, here's a novel concept.

      One of these days, these lazy ass marketers will actually start providing
      relevant and useful content to people looking for solutions to their problems.
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      • Profile picture of the author Plish
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Hey, here's a novel concept.

        One of these days, these lazy ass marketers will actually start providing
        relevant and useful content to people looking for solutions to their problems.
        They are. They're spinning articles to generate links to boost their website which holds all the useful content that will be easier to find. **** content is just a side effect of a quality content
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Plish View Post

          They are. They're spinning articles to generate links to boost their website which holds all the useful content that will be easier to find. **** content is just a side effect of a quality content
          Keep deluding yourself to believe that rubbish.
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          • Profile picture of the author Plish
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Keep deluding yourself to believe that rubbish.
            Not really deluding myself. Good content sells, bad content doesn't (at least not in the long term). Promoting good content by creating tons of low quality content with links is just what happens. Tis how things work on teh interwobs.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Plish View Post

              I doubt it's possible for Google to successfully target spun articles. At the end of the day they have to be 100% right if they want to remove someone's content from the internet. They can't just go around with an algo that is trashing quality articles every 50 times.
              Actually, last time I looked, Google was a publicly traded private enterprise. As such, they could do exactly as you say without having to be 100% right about anything.

              I don't really think it would be all that hard to target (badly or lazily) spun articles. Just like the millions of garbage sites created during the Made For Adsense days, the most common junk spitters, I mean, article spinners, likely leave a footprint Sasquatch would envy.

              On top of that, with the millions of pages of quality content they've indexed, it shouldn't be too tough to spot odd grammatical structures and word usage like many spinners regurgitate.

              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              That's just False info!

              If a spun article moves you from page #2 to page #1 in the SERPs, is that value?

              The answer is yes, it's value. :rolleyes:
              Value to who? Certainly not to the searcher.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Hey, here's a novel concept.

              One of these days, these lazy ass marketers will actually start providing
              relevant and useful content to people looking for solutions to their problems.
              Steve, don't hold your breath. You'd look funny turned blue. Most of these people don't give a rat's rump about solving problems or helping people.

              I'd be curious how many people that use junk spinners also use scrapers and have MFA software still on their hard drives somewhere.
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            • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
              Originally Posted by Plish View Post

              Not really deluding myself. Good content sells, bad content doesn't (at least not in the long term). Promoting good content by creating tons of low quality content with links is just what happens. Tis how things work on teh interwobs.
              One day, people are going to wake up and realize that the "Good Content" versus "Bad Content" and the "Duplicate Content" and "Syndicated Content" versus "Uniquely Original Content" is a myth.

              These passionate IMers who espouse their dogmatic beliefs, perceptions and prophecies concerning "Original Only Content" are entitled to their opinions; at least in most of the seven continents.

              That being said, spinning articles and syndicated content will always exist and will cause savvy IMers to flourish. Hating spun content is equivalent to PETA hating meat eaters. While PETA proponents strongly voice their concerns and opinions - the stores, restaurants, food suppliers and farms selling meat are making a mint.

              Interestingly enough, the moment some engineer with an IQ of 178, figures out a way to put an end to spun articles with a new algorithm, someone with an IQ of 88 is going to figure how to beat it!

              And, all this talk about GOOD CONTENT reigning supreme - please explain how this site: http://moneymakerinfo.blogspot.com/ got to the top spot when you type in the highly contested keyword phrase:

              Make Money Online

              The site is nothing more than a compilation of swiped articles. And, if you read the articles, most of them are regurgitated IM drivel that has been repeated, spun and rewritten more times than you will care to remember.

              Even a 16-year-old kid from the Philippines has figured out that the hoopla about Good content versus bad content is a myth; he currently ranks #6 on the search term:

              Make Money Online

              Here's what this 16-year is saying about Good content: http://www.carlocab.com/i-have-a-secret-content-is-not-king/

              If a 16-year-old kid from the Philippines has figured this out, what are supposedly sharp IMers doing still debating the issue?

              Good content doesn't sell! It's smart, intelligent, savvy and aggressive Internet Marketing that sells!

              Giles, the Crew Chief
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

                Here's what this 16-year is saying about Good content: Content Is Not King
                Yes, here is what he has to say.

                Of course, I'm not saying that you should just put all your efforts into marketing - again, content is part of marketing - you have to deliver.
                End of discussion.
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              • Profile picture of the author theimdude
                Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

                Here's what this 16-year is saying about Good content: Content Is Not King

                If a 16-year-old kid from the Philippines has figured this out, what are supposedly sharp IMers doing still debating the issue?

                Good content doesn't sell! It's smart, intelligent, savvy and aggressive Internet Marketing that sells!

                Giles, the Crew Chief
                The internet is not offline where you can taste and feel so if presentation and description is no good your buyers will pass. Sorry to say but this 16 year is talking rubbish as online is not offline

                And for coke being better than pepsi - the taste of coke is what has made it and pepsi just don't have it
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              • Profile picture of the author danemorgan
                Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

                Here's what this 16-year is saying about Good content: Content Is Not King

                If a 16-year-old kid from the Philippines has figured this out, what are supposedly sharp IMers doing still debating the issue?

                Good content doesn't sell! It's smart, intelligent, savvy and aggressive Internet Marketing that sells!

                Giles, the Crew Chief
                Is he still 16? The kid just doesn't age.
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                Did you ever notice that “author” is the root of the word “authority“?
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              • Profile picture of the author pjblanch
                Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post


                Interestingly enough, the moment some engineer with an IQ of 178, figures out a way to put an end to spun articles with a new algorithm, someone with an IQ of 88 is going to figure how to beat it!
                True dat! There might be something to think of (amidst all of the great thought-provoking input here) if I could chime in, and it is this: It is impossible [using straight mathematical logic] to "go back" to the original article by only looking at the spun version.

                The reason is simple. Say, a word is replaced by another synonym. This could be traced working backwards. (Just "un-replace" it!) However, when that same word is presented with a LIST of synonyms from which it could be replaced - and any one of those words can be picked using random picking patterns - then traceability has just been driven out of existence when considering you have 10s or 100s of other events taking place (other words and sentences and paragraphs being replaced in the same manner) in the same article. It's like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. It is also the same reason why computer code, after compiling, is very difficult to crack. The only way to find, say a password, is by patterns (rainbow tables, etc.).

                Stay with me on this...

                I mentioned patterns. The only tool left for Google (or others) to use is patterns. The particular pattern they would use heavily is semantically based (which is in itself like trying to heard cats). Using this is an attempt to work backwards using a pattern - not logic. (They can also monitor user behavior and do other things, but this is beyond the scope of this message.)

                After all of that, this is what I ultimately wanted to say: Google will be able to cut down on spun articles using very clever methods, but it is impossible to eliminate it. They will go as far as they can without negatively affecting the reader experience, which according to them, is ultimately what they are concerned with.

                Now I need to look in that box of chocolates here - ya never know... ~p
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      • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Hey, here's a novel concept.

        One of these days, these lazy ass marketers will actually start providing
        relevant and useful content to people looking for solutions to their problems.
        Exactly! It seems like everyone is just running around, spending time trying to find the best article spinner. How about spending that time writing original stuff??

        I've fiddled with a couple of spinners (mostly to see what the hype is all about), and it actually took me more time and energy to spin something (and then make changes when it came out reading like Klingon), than it takes me to actually rewrite it myself.

        Some of the stuff I've read online is so obviously spun. I can't believe people actually use the garbage to represent their business!
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          Exactly! It seems like everyone is just running around, spending time trying to find the best article spinner. How about spending that time writing original stuff??

          I've fiddled with a couple of spinners (mostly to see what the hype is all about), and it actually took me more time and energy to spin something (and then make changes when it came out reading like Klingon), than it takes me to actually rewrite it myself.

          Some of the stuff I've read online is so obviously spun. I can't believe people actually use the garbage to represent their business!
          No offense, but garbage in = Garbage out.

          The software program does what you tell it to do, so if the results were crappy, guess what?

          Article spinning when done properly and with the right tools is about content leverage. You can sell the articles as PLR/MRR and so on etc. I personally have found alot of the responses in this thread laughable at best, and incredibly misinformed.

          If you are hoping to produce quality human readable content at the click of a button without doing any work, you are going to be sorely dissapointed. You must use a human controlled spinner such as TBS, MAR or Article productions and do them yourself.

          You know, one of these days when I have some spare time from spamming the internet with garbage spun articles and duplicate content, I might make a video of myself, spinning an article properly. Then show how many of them I can get ranked on the first page of Google.

          (I probably wont waste my time since alot of people already have their minds made up and it wouldn't make a difference, even with the evidence right in their face)

          Chris

          You
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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    Who sez detecting spun articles is a problem for Goog? It's really easy. Whether or not Goog actually implements a detection and removal process is a marketing question, not a technical question.

    What is the purpose of spinning articles and placing the spun articles on lots of websites to build backlinks? The purpose is to *fake* popularity. And authority.

    By spinning an article and placing it on several sites the appearance of 'great minds' agreeing on an idea is created. If all those people with all those articles on all those websites agree on an idea and link with each other, then the appearance is created that the idea is popular.

    If, in fact, the truth is there are no new ideas and all those sites link together because they are artificially created, the appearance of popularity is a flash in the pan.

    There are semantic ways of detecting spinning. I'm sure Goog has figured some of them out. But there's also a simpler way of detecting spinning: If the sites with spun articles attract next to no visitors they betray their vapidity.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking Goog doesn't know about spinning and artificial backlinking. IMHO they know, but they have their reasons not to crack down.......yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I don't think it is a matter of Google cracking down on "spun content", but Google more obviously ignoring content that no one is willing to link to from another website.

    Zero links to an article in any location is a very clear signal that no one appreciated the content enough to link to it.

    And most article directories are full of spun content that no one wants to read or link. So by way of "neighborhood" - an article directory that has no links to internal pages - Google has its second signal that it is probably junk article content.

    The problem is not "spun" or "syndicated" articles, but instead, articles that don't pass the smell test with readers...

    The Free Ebook in my signature goes into these concepts in much greater detail, if you are interested.

    According to an article on SEO News (http://www.seo-news.com/archives/2010/jun/24.html) -- an article that I am willing to link -- this has become much more obvious since Google's Mayday Update... Prior to the Mayday Update, all web pages benefited from internal linking, when the home page had high link popularity... Since the Mayday Update, Google has diminished the value of internal linking, forcing individual web pages to stand more firmly on its own legs in order to get listed in Google. In other words, the individual internal pages of our websites also need link popularity from third-party resources to be worthy for top placement in Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author domainarama
      Took a kwik look at your website and free ebook (how much could I have read/absorbed in 10 minutes?). From initial appearance, yes, we're thinking on the same track.

      The impression I get is that your thoughts/service would be good for someone who has new ideas and something new and worthwhile to say. That sometimes happens.

      The issue I have with MOST articles on the net and submitted to article directories -- including the sacred ezinearticles -- is there is nothing new or even interesting in them. There are whole categories that just repeat and repeat themselves. Hasn't everything that can be said about certain topics -- like article submission, to pick a cute example -- been said already? Take the topic of astrology. The impression I have is that everything that can be said about astrology has already been said -- with the exception of specific predictions (that isn't really the right word, but you get the point) made for specific people or event?

      There's always breaking news. But you wouldn't submit an article to article directories about what happened in China this morning, for instance. Save that for news websites. And maybe one or two magazine/analytic articles on news analysis websites.

      People resort to spinning to cover up the fact that they have nothing new and interesting to say. If they has something new and interesting to say, one good post would attract all the attention (and clicks and backlinks) a person would need, and spinning would be unnecessary. OK, if the topic is evergreen, like cooking, for example, one recipe submission might not exhaust the possibilities, so multiple submission make sense.

      Capish?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
    I don't think so. I have seen many guys are spinning articles and submit to best article directories and indexing in first pages. It depends on the quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author webstrategistpk
    The better way to get your spun content in the google index longer is to manually correct it and replace some words by yourself. This way your articles will become more unique and will not fall a prey to google crackdown.
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    • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
      Hasn't everything that can be said about certain topics -- like article submission, to pick a cute example -- been said already?
      I sort of resent the fact that people would suggest "it's all been said before." That's like saying, "Why bother starting a new business because all the business ideas have already been tried?"

      Or, "Why invent a new product because they've all been invented already?"

      The other side of me says, "Ha, let them think what they want. It's because of all those crappy articles people spin that allows MY unique articles...manually spun by me...to get a 98% approval and posting ratio in the article syndication networks I participate in."

      What doesn't work for you or drives you crazy because of the "junk pages" being created is an opportunity for me and the few others that actually do provide unique content of value.
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      • Profile picture of the author domainarama
        Quote:
        Hasn't everything that can be said about certain topics -- like article submission, to pick a cute example -- been said already?
        I sort of resent the fact that people would suggest "it's all been said before." That's like saying, "Why bother starting a new business because all the business ideas have already been tried?"
        WRONG! Saying everything has already been said about article submission is like saying everything's been said about article submission. Do you have anything new to say? Say it. Prove to me that you have something new to say about article submission. Bet you can't.

        Saying "it's all been said before" has already been said. By Kohelet, also known as Ecclesiastes. "There's nothing new under the sun," he famously said. Of course that isn't relevant anymore. Nowadays we have artificial tanning salons, so we don't need the sun, do we.
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  • Profile picture of the author reapr
    Humm I can see it now many new threads ...

    The {Death|Dead|Dying} of {Article|Content} {Spinning|Rewriting|Plagiarism|Make Overs}!
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    There is no such thing as original content. All the words that you use in your articles have been used before. You are just aranging them a alittle bit different.

    I think the worries about using spun articles is jjust a myth that some use to promote their agenda or product.

    I have been wrong before, and I could be wrong this time. I don't have any proof to back it up. But this is my opinion, and that is all it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    You get backlinks from spun and duplicate articles.

    Unless Google gives more weight to backlinks from spun articles that it does to backlinks from duplicate articles, there's no reason to spin.

    I don't know that Google does that.

    I have found my articles spun out of recognition and readability (actually, utternly nonsensical, where 'vice versa' was turned into 'carnality versa.'


    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/dusan/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/dusan/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]

    Originally Posted by Didi View Post

    Hello Warriors,

    When I checked my emails this morning, I came across one from a certain marketer who was doing certain promotion about some kind of backlinking system.

    One of the things that he mentioned that caught my attention was this :

    'Article spinning has become very popular, but Google has also started to crack down on this and they have systems in place to remove spun content from their index.'

    Guys, how true is this?

    When it comes to content writing, writing your own articles is one of the best solution simply because they are 100% unique as it comes from you and no else or, you could simply outsource it if you want to.

    But when it comes to doing some backlinking to your website, maybe doing something like link wheels, submitting your articles to directories, web 2.0 websites, process that requires you to submit content into their network for you to be able to build links back to your side, spinning of articles could come in handy.

    When it comes to this kind of baclinking process (in this case, doing it manually), article spinning saves you lots of time rather than having to write lots of articles which could take up a lot of your time.

    So, if it's true that Google is able to trace spun articles, what is the next best solution towards this problem? Not all marketers have the time to write hundreds of articles per day or even have the budget to outsource the work especially for those who are starting out on doing Internet Business.

    Spinning of articles can be one, powerful solution if done right but if Google is able to crack this down, then spinning of articles would be a waste time. Just sharing some thoughts with you guys and I appreciate if you could give me some of your opinion. Thanks guys.

    Regards,
    Didi
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  • Profile picture of the author TimG
    For any subject there will always be something new to say or add it just depends on if the new material has been found/discovered yet by someone and if that person is ready to release that information yet.

    Consider this...how much has been written on the subject of how to get rich? Tons of material and yet at the end of the day it all boils down to one simple principle...don't spend more then you make. Naturally, there are ways to accelerate the wealth creation process but the underlying principle is still the same.

    How about the massive amount of information produced/created/released for the weigth loss industry/niche and yet it boils down to a simple principle......burn more calories then you intake.

    We are all marketers here and learning how to package information, whether it is new, old, used, regurgitated or whatever, is what we do. Marketing and the conveyance of information is our speciality.

    One final note on spun content, when done half-a**ed you get half-a**ed results and rightfully so. When you take the time to use products wisely and sensibly you can in fact, create/add value to an existing article.

    Respectfully,
    Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      <snip>it all boils down to one simple principle...don't spend more then you make. <snip>
      Doh! So that's why I...
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      Project HERE.

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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      For any subject there will always be something new to say or add it just depends on if the new material has been found/discovered yet by someone and if that person is ready to release that information yet.
      I am with you Tim.

      While true that there is nothing new under the sun, and every word in the English language has been used once or twice, that doesn't diminish the potential power of the words presented.

      I frequently read topics that I have read for years, and every now and again, I find myself experiencing an Aha moment... While the topic had been beaten like a dead horse, another writer has presented the same dead topic in such a way as to let me gain some insight that I had never had before... And that is why I keep reading such topics...

      After more than a decade in article marketing, one might think that I already knew all that there was to know on the subject... But even after a decade of using and selling article marketing, I have had three "Aha moments" in the last six months... And I have turned all of those lessons into new sales...

      Originally Posted by domainarama View Post

      Hasn't everything that can be said about certain topics -- like article submission, to pick a cute example -- been said already?
      Perhaps it has all been said before... But the question is not whether it has all been said or not, but whether you OR the other person who is reading the topic has gained all that there is to gain from the knowledge shared...

      While you may feel you know everything there is to know on the subject -- right or wrong -- your neighbor may not feel exactly as you do... Your neighbor is potentially just starting out on the topic... Your neighbor could be looking for a different point of view... Your neighbor could be looking for the special way that I put the words together, so that he or she will find that creative insight he or she has been craving...

      I know you and I were mostly in agreement on your original response, but if everything has been said already, why do we keep reading? If we already know it all, then there should be no reason to continue to absorb additional view points, as have been expressed fluidly in this thread...

      I am a smart guy, but I am also smart enough to know that I do not know it all... In fact, the more I learn, the more I realize that I have so much more to learn... "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing." --- Socrates

      Who can truly know it all... Except for the man who feels that there is nothing more to be learned...
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    • Profile picture of the author Emeralds
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post


      Consider this...how much has been written on the subject of how to get rich? Tons of material and yet at the end of the day it all boils down to one simple principle...don't spend more then you make. Naturally, there are ways to accelerate the wealth creation process but the underlying principle is still the same.

      Tim
      Sorry Tim but I disagree with this. In fact I would say it is the very opposite that is true - it is only by leveraging your money (by taking out credit, mortgages, business loans, etc) that you have the opportunity to make significant money, provided you know what you are doing.

      Very few businesses would have thrived without additional funding. How many people would have been able to buy their house outright without a mortgage? If people tried to save enough money for a house they would never achieve that house and so their standard of living would be very low, so does that make them rich?
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  • Profile picture of the author eaglechick
    Although I haven't used spinners myself yet, I can see the benefits of using them responsibly.

    About 250 Articles from EZA and other Directories Spunned Into Horrible Versions
    In the meantime I hope they come down on this guy like a ton of bricks - I've picked up some of my articles severely messed up by the spinner he use - backlinks still intact, but the question is :

    Do you really want a backlink from this site? or
    Do you want to connect your name to this utter garbage?

    I've posted an example of how the articles look like in a previous thread, not going to do it again, but here is a small example:

    The aboriginal affair you accept to do is appropriately breach the ice. You will a lot of acceptable be the aboriginal to allege at the reception, so humans are counting on you to get the affair started. (guidelines for a best man speech just in case you're having any difficulties)

    Spotted a well-known aff merchant's articles in there as well as other well-known and respected marketers.

    http: bestmanspeeches dot co.cc/page/367 That is the best I can do without giving him some xtra link juice - please help out or PM me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author TimG
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Makes complete sense - if some Aborigines are venturing south, perhaps to Antarctica, for their wedding: they have to breach the ice somehow, you know? Otherwise there'll be none to put in the drinks and all the guests will be disappointed: you just have to interpret these things to some extent ...

        And here I thought it was code being written by a disciple of Yoda for BYOB -

        Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        If your spun content looks (reads) like spun content , you either

        Have a crappy spinner

        Are too lazy to use the spinner correctly

        Spun content has it's place . If it is not done correctly , that place is in the garbage pail.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      Originally Posted by The-English-Webmistress View Post

      Excellent bit of advice thebitbotdotcom. Thanks for sharing. This makes the background movement of Google much clearer for me. Thanks... Andrea, the English Webmistress
      Andrea, please tell me that you didn't buy into this bounce rate algo gibberish? There are numerous reasons why pages have high bounces rates and some of them are actually GOOD! For example, if you have a site monetized with ads and no opt-ins, you want a high bounce rate because that means surfers are getting to your page and quickly clicking the ads; which is what you want in that scenario and there are others.

      You really need to read bgmacaw's response to that dubious algo inference...

      Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

      Yep, I like how they penalized Digg, Delicious and StumbleUpon for their high bounce rate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

      Bottom line, this is a myth. User activity like this cannot be accurately tracked and can be easily gamed. As someone else recently pointed out, do you see anyone offering "bounce rate improvement" services?
      Thankfully, the WF has people who actually know what they talking about and are not just spewing out great sounding misinformation.

      Originally Posted by eaglechick View Post

      Although I haven't used spinners myself yet, I can see the benefits of using them responsibly. In the meantime I hope they come down on this guy like a ton of bricks - I've picked up some of my articles severely messed up by the spinner he use - backlinks still intact... I've posted an example of how the articles look like in a previous thread, not going to do it again, but here is a small example:

      The aboriginal affair you accept to do is appropriately breach the ice. You will a lot of acceptable be the aboriginal to allege at the reception, so humans are counting on you to get the affair started.

      eaglechick, in your eyes, his spun articles look like and read like crap. But what you fail to realize is that he is most likely doing that intentionally! It may not be some lazy or failed attempt at spinning. It could be a tactic referred to as Social Engineering.

      Social Engineering
      Social engineering is the act of manipulating people into performing actions...

      The objective is to publish content and create a layout in such a manner that the surfer starts reading the content and quickly realizes his or her answer is definitely not in the poorly written article.

      Once they make that decision, a percentage of surfers exit the page by clicking on the any of the cleverly placed associated advertisements. Using that tactic, those sites typically have a high CTR.

      So in many cases, when you see that gibberish, there is a method to their madness. One of my very first IM mentors used to have me sit down and read his articles, which never made any sense. When I would explian to him that the articles weren't saying anything and didn't make any sense. He would smile and say, "That's the point!"

      He was engaging in Social Engineering!

      Giles, the Crew Chief
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      • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Maybe he could create a site so bad people would pay to leave,
        His Adsense income back then in 2006 was at $11k per month and its done nothing but increase because he's added more sites.

        People mock what they don't understand but he's laughing all the way to the bank.

        Giles, the Crew Chief
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

        The objective is to publish content and create a layout in such a manner that the surfer starts reading the content and quickly realizes his or her answer is definitely not in the poorly written article.
        THANK YOU.

        People have been not believing me about this for months.
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    • Profile picture of the author jennypitts
      Originally Posted by TimG View Post

      I'm not sure that Google is cracking down on articles/content that is created from an article spinner. What I believe they are targeting is shallow content which is probably a nice way of saying garbage content.

      However, even if they are targeting spun content then the best course of action is to hand write and submit content to the directories/websites you care about the most that offer you the most ROI for your article marketing efforts and only submit spun content to the second tier directories which send micro amounts of traffic back to your site (if any at all).

      This way if your spun content on the second tier sites is de-indexed/banished it won't hurt you too bad. Keep in mind that a few high quality backlinks are worth far more then hundreds of low grade backlinks.

      Respectfully,
      Tim
      I could not agree more... I think that people have gotten away with garbage articles for far too long. I am not sure if the statement IS true or NOT and that is perhaps something that only a Google exec can answer. But if they have been drilling into people's head that QUALITY content is important, then it may be true.

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Don't look now, but I think in those cases it's actually the backlink, rather than the spun article itself, that's moving your SERPs position.
      ... Nicely said... I think too many people fail to understand exactly WHAT is moving them in SERPs.

      Now, as far as another question the Warrior who posted the question asked... Regarding linkwheels and so on... Well, many people opt to use practices such as linkwheels, but you should know that it is NOT a whitehat SEO tactic. It MAY work initially but it can eventually catch up to you. I have known of people whose site has been banned after using linkwheels.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tygrupe
        Now, as far as another question the Warrior who posted the question asked... Regarding linkwheels and so on... Well, many people opt to use practices such as linkwheels, but you should know that it is NOT a whitehat SEO tactic. It MAY work initially but it can eventually catch up to you. I have known of people whose site has been banned after using linkwheels.
        The interlinking strategy of a link wheel is proven to be effective, so using high quality content on the main site and spun/lower quality content on feeder site seems like a sustainable strategy. Has anyone seen a main site actually get banned or just one or more of the feeder sites? I have a hard time believing that your quality main site could get banned by using a link wheel strategy, especially if you are hosting feeders on different servers/IP or using web based sites to provide the backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author jlucado
      I don't know if Google can or will crack down on automatically spun articles but humans should and do recognize it easily. Auto spun content can be shabby and just hard to believe, let alone understood.

      If one is only looking for a back link, then article spinning and automatic submissions may satisfy that purpose. But if you want your link to be clicked, your article must be good enough to entice your reader to move to that step.

      Spin your article yourself and make it satisfy your real intentions.

      If you take the time to rewrite and rearrange your sentence structures and then your paragraph order, you'll find you can become rather good at leveraging one article into ten good articles yourself. Then manually submit each spun article once to its unique submission site.

      Spinning and submission software can help, but you must take control of it and not let it become automatic. You'll find you can get the back-link and the traffic from those links if the article is worth reading and makes the reader want more.
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    • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
      Say it. Prove to me that you have something new to say about article submission. Bet you can't.
      Okay, geez, just off the top of my head I can think of something that hasn't been said before about article marketing in exactly the way I'm about to say it. And, that is...

      "Hey, don't worry about writing something and being afraid that it's been said before or not. It's not about whether it's been said before...it's about whether the READER has seen it before. And, there's a good chance that at least a certain percentage of 1000 readers have NOT seen before what you have written in the same exact way that you have said it. And, those are the people you are writing for."
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by TimG View Post

        Consider this, You submit the same article to 5 different article directories and by some miracle you end up getting all 5 articles ranked in the top 5 on Google for the intended keyword phrase and a web surfer conducts a search for the keyword phrase and gets your 5 articles in the top 5 spots as their results.

        Now, what happens if they click on the first result and hate your article so they immediately click back and click on the second listing which just so happens to be your same article.

        Of course, they are getting a bit upset because they hate your article so they click back again and choose the third result which happens to be your article which they hate....talk about frustrating.
        This is exactly the reason Google started allowing only one direct affiliate link in the Adwords results. Too many searches were coming up with ten ads all leading to the same sales page, and click rates were falling almost as fast as the time on site. Advertisers were getting upset about paying for clicks that resulted in a sub-two-second page view.

        So they took steps to rectify the situation. Now, for certain keywords, you can click on all ten ads and land on nine different pages. One for the product owner, one for the lucky affiliate using a direct link, and seven landing/squeeze pages of varying quality. The ones with crappy pages still get the two second bounce, but others have a chance to at least be seen.

        When it comes to spun articles, I've always said that if I can't tell, I don't care.

        Originally Posted by TimG View Post

        Heck, as a fisherman you can have 10 copies of the same fishing lure but with each one having a different color scheme...why is that? Because even though it is the same fishing lure, different colors work for different fish.
        Not only that, different color patterns will work for the same fish under different circumstances.

        Originally Posted by TimG View Post

        Spinning articles isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't about putting out rehashed garbage. It is about putting yourself in the best position at numerous locations with your quality content in order to funnel a visitor to your website.

        Respectfully,
        Tim
        No comment here, just thought it deserved repeating.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimG
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          When it comes to spun articles, I've always said that if I can't tell, I don't care.

          Not only that, different color patterns will work for the same fish under different circumstances.
          Bingo - If a reader cannot tell if an article has been put through a spin cycle and yet the article provides enough value to the reader in order to entice them to visit our websites for more information then mission accomplished without resorting to any crazy schemes or fads.

          Regarding the color patterns example - Thanks for coming to my rescue John. Its been a long time since I enjoyed a good fishing trip so I was a little fuzzy on using lures.

          Respectfully,
          Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Marizka
    I agree, Garbage like that should be deleted from search engines!
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  • Profile picture of the author johan_malmo
    I dont think they can see what content i manually written or not. Well, if you use spolning, be sure to vary tje length of sentences etc so it doesnt have the scarf same amount of words and sentences and paragraphs for eaxh article.
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  • Profile picture of the author eaglechick
    Crew Chief - thx for the lesson in social engineering - but to me it makes no sense!
    Maybe I'm a snob - but I rather not that people laugh at my site - "laughing to the bank" by putting up that - It's not for me then.

    Each and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. But I'm sure there is some great spinners out there and if you know how to use them properly (as mentioned) they could work.

    @Nicole Beckett

    I'm with you on this one, I've tried numerous spinners (paid and free) and really I get so frustrated that I just take the article and rewrite it myself - a lot quicker.

    The spinner don't know my niche - I know what I want to say.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      Originally Posted by eaglechick View Post

      Crew Chief - thx for the lesson in social engineering - but to me it makes no sense!
      Maybe I'm a snob - but I rather not that people laugh at my site - "laughing to the bank" by putting up that - It's not for me then.

      eaglechick, that was why he had me to sit and read and re-read and read his articles again again. He was trying to get me to the point; which was, he was engaging in social engineering. He was not trying to deliver content of any value by any stretch of the imagination. He was not trying to make any coherent sense, that's what made the strategy work so well.

      People can disagree with that tactic but it works like a charm!

      Giles, the Crew Chief
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  • Profile picture of the author thaismr
    When you spin articles, you should:
    - Change the number and size of paragraphs and words in it.
    - Change number and position of images.
    - Change some of the links.
    - Change HTML: use bullet lists on some, not in others, use different <h3><h2> headers in some not in other, etcs..
    - Manualy change sentences in their format, not just word-by-word synonyms.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimG
      Originally Posted by thaismr View Post

      When you spin articles, you should:
      - Change the number and size of paragraphs and words in it.
      - Change number and position of images.
      - Change some of the links.
      - Change HTML: use bullet lists on some, not in others, use different <h3><h2> headers in some not in other, etcs..
      - Manualy change sentences in their format, not just word-by-word synonyms.

      Those seem more like template changes which, don't get me wrong, can help your website when using previously published content but for a real spin effect to take place all spun articles cannot look even remotely close to the original article nor themselves (if you can pull it off) and yet still deliver the same high quality information.

      If the main argument is nobody wants to see the same information rehashed over and over then your objective as a master article marketer is to convince them that it is different information even if the underlying message/theme is the same.

      Respectfully,
      Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author thaismr
        Originally Posted by TimG View Post

        Those seem more like template changes which, don't get me wrong, can help your website when using previously published content but for a real spin effect to take place all spun articles cannot look even remotely close to the original article nor themselves (if you can pull it off) and yet still deliver the same high quality information.

        If the main argument is nobody wants to see the same information rehashed over and over then your objective as a master article marketer is to convince them that it is different information even if the underlying message/theme is the same.

        Respectfully,
        Tim
        Hi Tim,

        I did not want to repeat all the other answers, so that was an add-on list to what spinners don't normally do and one would need to do it manualy if they don't want to be cracked down so easily.

        It's template changes not around your articles, but what we almost never do: inside our articles.

        Keeping it high quality depends solely on the rewriter person, as those changes need to be done manualy.

        That is, if one choses to use rewritten content despite the discussion going on in here about how useful it could be. Personally, I always try to keep mine high quality but I do reuse content.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimG
          Originally Posted by thaismr View Post

          Hi Tim,

          I did not want to repeat all the other answers, so that was an add-on list to what spinners don't normally do and one would need to do it manualy if they don't want to be cracked down so easily.

          It's template changes not around your articles, but what we almost never do: inside our articles.

          Keeping it high quality depends solely on the rewriter person, as those changes need to be done manualy.

          That is, if one choses to use rewritten content despite the discussion going on in here about how useful it could be. Personally, I always try to keep mine high quality but I do reuse content.
          Ahhhhhhhh....ok that makes sense and you are 100% correct that keeping a spun article high quality requries the writer to go back and read the article in order to make sure it makes sense, is grammatically correct and has indeed been successfully spinned.

          Respectfully,
          Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    So is this:

    "The aboriginal affair you accept to do is appropriately breach the ice. You will a lot of acceptable be the aboriginal to allege at the reception, so humans are counting on you to get the affair started."

    Worse than this:

    "When I began writing this article on dog grooming, it dawned on me that an article on dog grooming wouldn't be complete without mentioning grooming shears.

    Once I spent time thinking about shears and dogs, it became obvious that I would be remiss if I left out how to keep the dog from biting you while grooming.

    If a dog does in fact bite you while on the table, it could become messy. I have never heard of towels made solely for the purpose of grooming dogs, but I suppose if one wanted to keep their dog healthy and their paws free from blood, there should be a towel handy while tending to the barking dog.

    Barking dogs can get loud in a small area. Especially areas designed for grooming.
    "

    Which one gives the user a better and more relevant "experience"?

    They are both useless but at least when I see the first one pop on my screen I can move on.
    The bottom content will waste more of my time making it, in my opinion, worse.

    Unfortunately, it will be a long time before a search engine can recognize a pig with lipstick.
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  • I was doing linkwheels back before they were called link wheels. I knew others doing it and we discussed them in cyber back alleys and called them funnels because they were just an expansion of our sales funnels that started all over web 2.0 and eventually funneled to our conversion.

    One of my site testing techniques is I send an email to friends all over and ask them to do something on my site like "you want to by widgets at website http://yyyyyyyyy. Please do it and I will refund your money. Call me afterward and let me ask some questions about your experience."

    So I go big on a funnel and I have 8 or 9 positions on page 1 for G SERPs for some incredible keywords. It totally blew my mind but sales weren't quite doubled and I was expecting them to be 10 times better with that kind of traffic.

    I sent an email to my friends saying something like "You want to buy a watchamacallit. Search G and tell me which places you would buy it from and which pages you wouldn't buy it from."

    When they started calling me, almost every one of them said that there was only one place listed to get watchamacallits that was blocking everyone else with the same crap over and over. It always led to the same site. Only about 35% of them said that they would buy it from that site. MY SITE! They did not know it was mine and one of them even told me that I should definitely sell watchamacallits because I could kick that sites butt. MY SITE!

    So my perception of a big win 'spinning' and 'linkwheeling' was more of a fail from the user perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author lacraiger
    its about time... lol
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  • Profile picture of the author akilispensor
    I have heard of this better never tried to spin it before. You can have some reoccurring themes, but I like to keep most of my content fresh
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  • Profile picture of the author Dove L
    I always like The Best spinner, but, since I have more time now during the summer and reading this news, I may just need to hold off using it.
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    • Profile picture of the author The_Archer
      Originally Posted by Dove L View Post

      I always like The Best spinner, but, since I have more time now during the summer and reading this news, I may just need to hold off using it.
      I also use TBS and I love it. However, don't let it do all the work for you, that's what can have you shot in the foot. Spend a lot of time, it can take many days to get a great 500 word spin ready article that will fool anyone and render your mother article an absolute powerhouse and be able to fork out unique babies forever.

      I probably have 100's of articles out there that all came from the same mother. Neither humans nor computers know it's been spun. That's the things with spinners, they are simply an assistant, it can remember a lot more words than you can, but only a person knows if it makes sense or not and only a human can make it work the way that it should. It's not a one click deal but think if you had to come up with all those other words and synonyms on your own.

      I guess that's the big "mistaking" about spinners, yeah anyone can go to eza and get an article, throw it in the spinner, replace all synonyms, and you're good to go, without even paying attention to what the spun versions look like... Hence Eaglechick's post...
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  • Profile picture of the author The_Archer
    Wow, quite a heated discussion up in here!

    It depends what you are looking to accomplish with your articles. If all your goal is to get sales from your article, yeah, might as well bite the dust and write one unique article and submit it to eza and other high ranked directories. You're almost sure to get that one quality backlink and perhaps some half decent traffic.

    On the other hand, if you goal is the number of backlinks, this is where you'd want to invest in a good spinner. I had seen one website, it described the two services I use together, however, the information within was all wrong. The guy was giving the lazy-man's way, which, in a real life scenario, doesn't work that way.

    To actually have just one quality, spin ready article can take a long time, not simply by replacing everyone's favorites and generate articles with it and off you go. I've done a lot of testing using spinners and came to this conclusion:

    -An article spinner is there to help you increasing our spin syntax quicker than a human could, not to give you a spin ready article on the spot, which is probably what most are using spinners for. Enter the article, click replace all synonyms, generate copies ad submit as quickly as possible.
    -An article which is rated as being 50% unique gives the best bang for your buck. It might not be such a nice article but is still easily readable to a point where no human or computer would know it's been spun.
    -To give an 80% unique article that still makes sense in context takes about 60 hours of work. This means, writing the piece yourself, from your head, starting with a bulk replacement then going back and removing words that wouldn't make sense when spun.
    -Do a manual spin 20-30 times and read it each time it's been re-spun, go back and remove words that didn't make a sentence make sense, repeat until it all makes sense and yes it is very acheivable BUT REQUIRES A HUMAN HEAD!!

    Article spinning is an art and like any artist, like any author or paint, to give a final product that is presentable to the public takes a lot of time and effort. The best movie scripts took months, if not years to actually have a working product, same with article spinning.

    However, every good thing comes to an end. Generally, from my testings, the "babies" of a "mother" article will lose their strenght at around 30 spun versions and I always copyscape all submitted versions.

    Keep in mind, article spinners weren't made to give quality content, they were made for total backlinks, while reducing the chances of duplicate content penalties. Also, Google doesn't show as many inlinks as Yahoo. Some marketers spend more time optmizing for Yahoo than Google. Often I seen websites that shown 38K inlinks in Yahoo only showing 3,000 in Google. The theory is that the more links to your site, the more authority your site gets and generally, the higher it will rank.

    However, it is highly possible that Google can start giving credit for articles only if someone clicks on it. Face it though, if they start doing that, they will lose money from those who advertise their article spinner via PPC, which is big business for them, same goes with the article submission services, I doubt Google, who are total scrooges be willing to sacrifice their market share with Yahoo, since I could see a lot of paid avertisers looking at other alternatives.

    Is duplicate content a myth? I dunno, let Jaime and Adam of the Mythbusters figure it out.

    @Eaglechick- Yup that is an example of someone using a spinner and not reading before submitting. Could be the works of Article Marketing Robot.

    Of course if something doesn't make sense at all, it should be removed. However, a lot of webmasters crave content and won't bother with reading an article to make sure it makes sense and will only do a keyword density check.

    Content isn't king, the ability to trick search engines is!

    Don't believe me? Go to Google and type in backlink building software and open a new tab and go to Yahoo's site explorer, tell me the backlinks to the top 3 organic searches
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    People who concentrate on putting out quality content don't worry about this kind of thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marat007
    Spinning articles is taking someone else's articles and then, after changing wording, rephrasing etc. presenting them as yours. In addition to Google related issues, SEO etc. it is also a copyright issue, unless the original author has explicitely allowed that. No?

    I don't understand why it is so popular and needed. Probably, because major article directories have little flexibility as to what they publish. You don't need to rewrite an article! You can publish an article as it is, with a little addition, which may be called a summary, a review or whatever, and this makes your page unique. and rank well in Google. Why spend hours to rephrase?
    See my site in signature, it allows this simple (and fully legitimate) technique.
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    Yes about time too. Hopefully all spun content and article spinners will die a well deserved death.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Spinning articles isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't about putting out rehashed garbage. It is about putting yourself in the best position at numerous locations with your quality content in order to funnel a vistor to your website.
    This is the best description I've ever seen and I wish more people would read it and actually think about what you are saying. Then again, maybe I don't as I think that those of us who can spin our content properly have a distinct advantage over those who can/will not.
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  • Profile picture of the author theemperor
    I agree cashcow - there is a false assumption that spinning = poor quality.

    But such an assumption doesn't make sense.

    You are replacing words with other words: This is precisely what you do when you redraft an article to improve it's quality!!

    So using the same mindset as when you redraft, you can at least maintain quality when spinning.
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  • Profile picture of the author alsmith1
    I think if the article is manually spun and makes sense to the reader that google would have a difficult time deducing it. If you manually write an original article and then make spun versions off of that article I don't think you will have any problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author m100k
    Spinning is not effective when done on a large scale. If you are spinning an article and sending it to 50 or 100s of sites then your time and efforts spent on spinning will pretty much go down the drain.

    You will basically set off a bs meter in google and see your efforts wasted. If you are giong to spin just send it to a few directories and move on. In some cases you might be better of not spinning if you happen to spend all day spinning just one article.

    You want to make the use of your time when article marketing. So if you can outsource your spinning by getting rewrites of sentences and words without spending too much money on it, you can benefit by gaining several rankings for the same keyword in google.
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  • Profile picture of the author tanveerhabib
    Thanks for sharing it and I was also effected by it my site de indexed in google after using spin articles.
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