Scam???? What Scam?

15 years ago

I've gotten that too and I know it can be frustrating, but I try to always keep in mind that maybe the person HAS been scammed, maybe multiple times. That doesn't excuse them treating me like a scammer, but it makes me a little less emotional when I'm responding to them.

I apologize for the confusion, set their mind at ease and make it right, whether that involves sending the file manually by email, refunding, or whatever else I can do to make them a satisfied customer.

Most of the time I think people just go on the defensive and assume the worst, even if you haven't given them a legitimate reason to do so.

And some of them are probably scum who like to cause trouble too.

Anyway, don't let it get to you too much, it's just a part of doing business online.

Wendy

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purpleheartdonations 15 years ago

Yeah, alot of people have bad experiences with SPAMMERS. So once the have a hint of a spammer, they impulsively ignore them....
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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

You are correct, Joseph. None of those things are a scam. However, if you look at it from the point of view of someone who has been truly scammed many times, and isn't as savvy as we are about IM, then to them, those things will look like scams.

That doesn't mean they are right, but they are the ones with more power in the transaction because they can request a refund or do a chargeback. Perhaps a simple line on the order confirmation page telling them where and how to contact you if they encounter any problems would help reduce the problem.

There is one exception, though. You mentioned someone buying the wrong type of WSO because they didn't read the sales copy. To me, those people should definitely know better than to call that a scam.

All the best,
Michael

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Nick Lotter

15 years ago

Them is harsh words, Joseph.

But I get your point. We are (most of us) trying to maintain a solid reputation online. I guess it hurts when someone blindly lays that "scam" accusation on you.

But on the other hand, there are a bunch of scammers around and people are rightly sensitive to it and wary of anything that doesn't run 100% smoothly or deliver exactly what was promised in the sales letter.

Best thing to do is test your systems to make sure everything is working smoothly before taking it live, being as clear as possible in the sales letter of what people can expect, and perhaps give them the "office hours" you work or maybe a maximum response time so that they know what to expect when sending you queries.

I have heard of people being called scammers because they didn't respond to queries within 2 hours. And the query was sent from a country in a totally different time zone and while the seller was asleep!

Just be as clear as possible and avoid any chance for misconceptions

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Midas3 Consulting

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Then

I'm pretty tired of people/newbies/scums who like to use the following word:

SCAM

What on earth are these people thinking?

- Your email cannot be contacted: I'm a SCAM
- You did not receive the download link: I'm a SCAM
- You did not receive a reply in 12 hours: I'm a SCAM
- You read the WSO wrongly and buy the wrong product: I'm a SCAM
- The delivery was 10 minutes late: I'm a SCAM

What is a scam? It is an intention to cheat. Read this again: Scam is an intention to cheat.

Transactions may not go smoothly. Processes may have a hiccup. Murphy's Law is playing its game.

But that does not equate to SCAM!

Bunch of losers... If everything sounds like a SCAM to you, go and get a day job and get out of Internet Marketing!

Rant over...

According to 10% of all our support tickets our company is a scam.

Of those 10% at least 90% entered their e-mail address incorrectly (twice)
and therefore didn't get the e-mail they needed.

When we gently remind them that hotmail isn't spelled hotmale, we get
a retraction on the SCAM accusation.

Folks get very panicky when something doesn't turn up in 0.1 seconds.

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

According to 10% of all our support tickets our company is a scam.

Of those 10% at least 90% entered their e-mail address incorrectly (twice)
and therefore didn't get the e-mail they needed.

When we gently remind them that hotmail isn't spelled hotmale, we get
a retraction on the SCAM accusation.

Folks get very panicky when something doesn't turn up in 0.1 seconds.

Makes me wonder just what type of sites they were visiting prior to giving you their e-mail address.

Just sayin'

~M~

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Alfred Shelver

15 years ago

LOL - I was going to say of course its a scam No HotMale was sent with aweber .... the retraction is because he/she has been busted by significant other ordering through their HotMale account again

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

According to 10% of all our support tickets our company is a scam.

Of those 10% at least 90% entered their e-mail address incorrectly (twice)
and therefore didn't get the e-mail they needed.

When we gently remind them that hotmail isn't spelled hotmale, we get
a retraction on the SCAM accusation.

Folks get very panicky when something doesn't turn up in 0.1 seconds.

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Makes me wonder just what type of sites they were visiting prior to giving you their e-mail address.

Just sayin'

~M~

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Midas3 Consulting 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Makes me wonder just what type of sites they were visiting prior to giving you their e-mail address.

Just sayin'

~M~

Lost me Michael , or was it a pun on "hotmale" ?
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- Michael Oksa 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SimonHarrison
  
  Lost me Michael , or was it a pun on "hotmale" ?
  
  Yes, that's what it was. Or should I say that's what it was supposed to be.
  
  ~Michael
  
  Thanks
  
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  Midas3 Consulting 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa
  
  Yes, that's what it was. Or should I say that's what it was supposed to be.
  
  ~Michael
  
  I had one of those internet forum humor disconnects, happens :-)
  
  Thanks
  
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MatthewM

15 years ago

Scam is a word to quick to be used by many users even marketers. It does happen but you have to look at it from the purchasers point of view. When your site says instant delivery and they don't get that instant satisfaction people get rather upset and may think they have been scammed.

You can't let it bother you to much and quickly try to resolved the matter. I have had people email me calling me a scammer con artist and by the second round of emails they were praising me.

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MikeAmbrosio

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Scam is a word to quick to be used by many users even marketers. It does happen but you have to look at it from the purchasers point of view. When your site says instant delivery and they don't get that instant satisfaction people get rather upset and may think they have been scammed.

You can't let it bother you to much and quickly try to resolved the matter. I have had people email me calling me a scammer con artist and by the second round of emails they were praising me.

Not pointing to you Matthew, but I see this sentence a lot.

What makes anyone think that a marketer is not ALSO a purchaser/customer, etc.? I was ONLY a purchaser for a couple of years before I started my IM business. I have even been legitimately scammed out of 5 figures...

But I don't call anyone a scammer for errant purchases or slow support, etc. There are times it may be the way the purchase is set up (poorly worded, not testing the process...) but sometimes it's even out of their control.

And I especially don't do it on a public site (forums, blogs, etc.). Those who do RARELY come back and retract after everything is taken care of.

When I get called a scammer because of a purchase issue, or I didn't answer a ticket in 30 minutes, I usually refund the purchase, let them keep it and say "later".

That's just me...

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Highdefinition 15 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

When we gently remind them that hotmail isn't spelled hotmale, we get
a retraction on the SCAM accusation.

LOL

I wonder if they also use Gmale
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sagablm

15 years ago

maybe I'm also a bit confused about word scam. thanks

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Joseph Then

15 years ago

I'll get on with life, not a problem. I posted this because some idiots just raised a Paypal refund claim because his website dropped in ranking and he blame me for it, calling me a scam.

Just yesterday, I received another email because I replied the email 20 hours later.

A week before this, I was called a scam because I didn't reply someone's PM and he saw me active in this forum.

Before that, a warrior was called a scammer because he failed to deliver the articles in time due to heavy workload order.

It's really dumb.

I know that some guys have been scammed before but hey, I was scammed before too (By monopolizer)! That doesn't mean that everyone is a scammer.

Use your words wisely, guys. Calling someone a scammer will piss honest people away. One day, you'll never know that when you are successful and you ask for a JV, they won't want to work with you because you call them a scammer...

I already have 4-5 of these 'love-to-call-people-scammers' guys in my list...

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John Atkins

15 years ago

Well said.

Recently I've been called a scammer by someone because he couldn't
find the download link of my product (which was sent automatically
after he purchased on his paypal e-mail).

Later I found out that he didn't find it because he was
searching for it on his personal e-mail, instead of searching
for it on his paypal e-mail...

Unbelieveable!

His mistake and I get called a scammer.

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CliveG

15 years ago

Very often the real scammers are those who bought your digital product, downloaded it and then asked for a refund even though they have read it and use the information it contains. Can't get scammier than that.

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Fernando Veloso

15 years ago

People use the web anonymity to do such idiot things.

Don't you love when people call you a scammer BEFORE they buy your FIRST product?

Pure genius.

:p

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Joseph, I don't know how the Singapore media is, but in the USA the media loves the word 'scam'. It gets people to watch plain oatmeal stories about ordinary transactions.

"Thinking of ordering a book online? Watch our Consumer Crusader report to avoid getting scammed!"

Main points of the story?

> Deal with companies you trust, like Amazon
> Look for the secure symbol in the corner of the browser
> Use a prepaid debit card
> etc.

Yawn...

But it keeps Consumer Crusader busy safeguarding people from scams, and firmly plants the word in their psyches.

The word is used so promiscuously in the news media that it's starting to lose its meaning.

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Joseph Then

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Joseph, I don't know how the Singapore media is, but in the USA the media loves the word 'scam'. It gets people to watch plain oatmeal stories about ordinary transactions.

Well, I remembered that my local news TV talked about Internet scams and they show Ewen Chia's website...

And we know that there are still some people who equate IM with SCAM. I don't know how they came up with that...

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Joseph Then

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NY1

On the flip side, some of what you mentioned are red flags to most consumers online and rightfully so.

Long before even you probably started selling products on the internet, The Work at Home market, which IM can fit nicely into, was predominantly overrun with scammers. Don't believe me, take a time machine back to 1995-2000.

These were people that genuinely ran intentional scams. Consumers have been taught and educated to be weary of making any kind of purchase online.

And if red flags are raised such as non-delivery of a product, an e-mail that cannot be contacted, then questions are going to arise. Which should give you a good indication of where you need to improve YOUR process.

As far as the example of a writer not being able to turn out articles on time because they overbooked themselves, that is their issue.

Part of running a business is to know how to manage your time and meet deadlines. Not to sound condescending, but, it's part of being an adult.

(What's the saying, Don't write checks that your *** cannot cash?)

The flip side could be turned around on you and say, if you can't deal with being called a scammer every now and again, maybe YOU should get out of internet marketing.

If you call your customers losers, you definitely should get a job in a cubicle where you don't have to deal with people on a daily basis.

Feedback is something that you should learn from, and apparently, you have a hard time dealing with feedback.

Adsense sites are good for people that cannot handle feedback, maybe you should focus on that. The world is not a bubble where everyone is going to praise you.

It's par for the course, a part of life, and you should expect it to happen. Want to blame someone?

Blame the guys that ran those illegitimate work at home opportunities during those years that set the stage. Blame your sales process for not running efficiently, blame yourself for not understanding how to deal with people.

Take personal responsibility and MAN UP.

Cool, thanks... I'll take your feedback. I learn from mistakes and from customers too. Well, once a while it's nice to let off steam in a forum and then back to business as usual. Your point of view seems valid too.

Maybe you should learn that if you try to please every single IM customer that comes to you, YOU need to get out of Internet Marketing and get a job in the cubicle.

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mrv1983

15 years ago

Thanks, Joseph, for opening up this discussion.
One of my greatest hesitations about moving into the internet marketing business for myself is the "image" or "reputation" in popular language and media of "scammers." I have been a part of "The Media" for over thirty years and let me confirm that there is a strong prejudice against what is labeled "internet marketing scams." Ironically, by their own definitions, the big media enterprises have been some of the most egregious "scammers" over the years.
As a new (week old) internet marketer, what advice do you have for me on my site and in targeted emails for addressing the issue head on to the viewer and demonstrating integrity and class?
I'm all eyes and ears!!!!!

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mrv1983

As a new (week old) internet marketer, what advice do you have for me on my site and in targeted emails for addressing the issue head on to the viewer and demonstrating integrity and class?

Hi mrv1983,

Excellent question.

Tell the truth.

Be respectful.

Keep your word.

Don't make lofty claims and outlandish promises.

If you make a mistake, admit.

Don't make excuses.

Adopt and apply the Golden Rule.

Tact is your friend, but be direct as all get out when you need to be.

You may not change their minds about internet marketing as a whole, but at least they will separate yourself from "those other scammers out there" in the eyes of the people you deal with.

Don't worry about it too much. The fact that you are concerned about it tells me you're off to a good start. Focus on running your business and not on what the naysayers say (which, by definiton, would be 'nay').

Also, have you made the amount shown in your signature? Actually made that amount? Can you duplicate the results? Have you? If not, then a good start would be to change your sales message to reflect the truth instead of a theory. Or, if your testimonials are made up and not signed by real people, that looks suspicious, too.

I'm not saying that IS the case, just saying IF it is, then you need to change it if you're serious about "demonstarting integrity and class".

All the best,
Michael

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mrv1983 15 years ago

Thanks so much for your response, Michael. I truly appreciate your advice. And, the answers are: Yes, Yes, Yes, and almost!
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Trent Brownrigg

15 years ago

Yes, I think people throw around the scam word a lot more than they should. There are plenty of scams out there so you do have to be careful but quite often people call something a scam when it is far from it.

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Biggy Fat

15 years ago

S.C.A.M. = Some Crooked Ass Marketer

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Michael Oksa 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Biggy Fat

S.C.A.M. = Some Crooked Ass Marketers

S.C.A.M = Some Customers Are Mendacious

(Not all scamming is done on the selling side)

~M~
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- Joseph Then 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa
  
  S.C.A.M = Some Customers Are Mendacious
  
  (Not all scamming is done on the selling side)
  
  ~M~
  
  S.C.A.M= Some Customers Are Morons???
  
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  Michael Oksa 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Joseph Then
  
  S.C.A.M= Some Customers Are Morons???
  
  That, too, Mr. Then, that, too.
  
  Or, professional proofreaders, is it...
  
  That too, Mr. Then, that too.
  
  ???
  
  My gut tells me the first one is correct, but thte second one looks better.
  
  ~M~
  
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mcmahanusa 15 years ago

I have been scammed - more than once. But at the same time, I have seen situations that were sometimes my own fault (okay,most of them), and some that were just due to an innocent oversight on someone's part, or a technical glitch. I have learned to be patient, communicate as best as possible, and hope for the best. It almost always works out. Right now I am trying to resolve an issue with a company. They are not scammers, just incompetent, but I have faith the issue will be resolved favorably.

As a merchant, all I can hope to do is answer complaints as expeditiously as possible, resolve any problems that arise, and as a last resort, cheerfully issue a refund. But above all, communicate. As another poster noted, a complaining customer, when handled properly, can become your biggest fan.
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Rob Howard

15 years ago

I understand your pain but I do have a solution for you:

3 words: Outsource Customer Service.

Then never again deal with it. Don't see it, don't look at it, don't bother with it. You would not believe how GREAT it is to never see those stupid comments again.

It allows you to focus, maintain excitement, and work towards the goal without getting down hearing a few people bitch and moan because of their stupid mistakes.

Rob

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

This is a major reason why I have been very reluctant to actually create any kind of product with this kind of market in mind.

There's a far more sophisticated level of business that is more professional, and less inclined to accuse someone of scamming over very short term, minor issues. And, they're willing to pay much higher prices for the same kinds of products.

Why bother with this one for more than a test bed?

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mcmahanusa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

This is a major reason why I have been very reluctant to actually create any kind of product with this kind of market in mind.

There's a far more sophisticated level of business that is more professional, and less inclined to accuse someone of scamming over very short term, minor issues. And, they're willing to pay much higher prices for the same kinds of products.

Why bother with this one for more than a test bed?

Michael, could you elaborate just a little bit?

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nicholasb

15 years ago

this post is a scam

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

Joseph,

I've read every word you've written in this thread and I'm still not making $100,000 a month in my spare time sitting at my kitchen table in my pajamas. I think this thread is a scam. :rolleyes:

Please send me a refund immediately.

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sloanjim

15 years ago

Just becasue someones house has been broekn into a few time I do not think it is warranted if I am called a "thief" just becasue I knock on the door.

Yep..welcome to the Net where you are xpected to answer email within 2 minutes and have 100% fautless operations. Where people can vent their anger at anyone with no justification.

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Malik.A

15 years ago

I think its over used but scamming does still occur.

example i purchased from
http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...m-tonight.html

and the guy who is doing the training is banned from the forum. he has only posted upto day 5 of the training nothing further when we should be on day 9. he missed out day 3 because apparently he got stung by a wasp.

and now that i have made a claim on paypal he is fighting on to keep my money.

none of the videos are ready before-hand he only perpares them on the day he posts them.

so if that isnt a scam i dont know what is.

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Tomwood

15 years ago

No one like being called a scammer I have had several people accuse me of not sending a product and opening a paypal dispute, after closing their browsers instead of clicking on to the return to merchant link.

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ClickHere

15 years ago

Some people are just too anxious or scared.Ignore the offense, have good communication with them and be patient and they will feel safe and will stop the scam thing.

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niffybranco

15 years ago

I know it is wrong when newbies are impatient but i will not be quick to point the finger cause i remember just how scared i was when i was purchasing my first learn how to make money program, now i dont even think twice when i see a course or ebook i want to buy.

I do not blame newbies as they hear a lot of horror stories the best way to resolve this is to have a proper communication channe l that will assure your buyers you are legit.

When anyone buys a product from me i have my system set up in such a way that they get sent an email address which contains information about things that i think might go wrong during purchase and what steps they need to take to correct them , i also let them know that even though they are using the internet to purchase they should be patient if they do not get an immidiate response as i might live in a different time zone or might be away from my computer at the moment and should give me 24 hours to sort their problem out.

If you are patient with newbies and ultimately teach them how to make money it will be to your advantage as they will most likely buy what they want from you or via your affiliate link.

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Scam???? What Scam?

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