Sorry, But I Just Don't Believe You...

64 replies
Maybe I'm way off base here, but here recently I've seen a rash of posts that I feel like replying to with a simple...I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!

Anyone else seeing the same thing?

It's almost as if people think that by writing that they make 10K in a day or that they added 1,000,000 people to their list in one day that somehow it makes it true.

Now, I would never actually reply to a post in the way that I described, but for some of the people that are buying into this crap, stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself, does it make sense? If it does not make sense in your own head, there is a good chance that it is not true.

Essentially, what people like this try to do is "fake it until they make it". Luckily for them, there is often enough people that buy into their hype that they actually see a pay day. Sadly, many of the people that do buy into it are the ones that end up getting hurt.

When it comes to business, always have your "common sense guard" firmly in the "on" position.

Jeremy
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Farrell
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Jeremy, I think you have to take it from where it comes.

      The best day I ever had was 4K. Honestly, I still can't believe it.

      Some here might think I've had to have had better days (not even close)
      and I am sure there are people here who think I don't make a dime.

      Credibility is a tough thing to get a handle on.

      But there are ways to get some idea of how successful somebody is.

      Go to Google and look up their name. See how many pages you find on them.

      Take a look at the content of their posts. See if they seem to know what
      they're talking about, such as in the actual advice they give. Or are they
      just spouting figures?

      Take a look at their reputation among other members who maybe have
      purchased their products. Find out what the general consensus is on them
      and if people think they are actually solid enough to build an income.

      See if you can find them outside of the Internet. I think Mike Filsaime was
      recently on Fox. Now THAT is credibility.

      Bottom line: Go with your gut. Look at the whole body of work and not
      just the one post.

      For the record, my 4K day was my best day as far as income. As far as
      opt ins, my best day was 100.

      But I still consider myself just an average marketer. As Kim S. said in one
      post, she spends more in a month in outsourcing than I make. So I'm
      nothing special.

      Again, look at the intentions, the body of work, and look around the
      Internet.

      From all of that, you can get some idea, though it is not fool proof because
      some people fly way under the radar.
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      • Profile picture of the author DJNeufeld
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        See if you can find them outside of the Internet. I think Mike Filsaime was recently on Fox. Now THAT is credibility.
        When I think of credibility, I don't think of FAUX.

        Sorry.
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
          Banned
          Originally Posted by DJNeufeld View Post

          When I think of credibility, I don't think of FAUX.

          Sorry.
          Too much koolaid will do that to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Go to Google and look up their name. See how many pages you find on them.
        Proves nothing. I know what I'm talking about, most of the time, but have very few mention in the serps. For personal reasons.
        Take a look at the content of their posts. See if they seem to know what
        they're talking about, such as in the actual advice they give. Or are they
        just spouting figures?
        Means nothing too. Remember a certain scammer? She sounded very credible.
        See if you can find them outside of the Internet. I think Mike Filsaime was recently on Fox. Now THAT is credibility.
        No it's not. Thats having a PR person. Do you honestly think they called Mike out of the blue?

        Remember, they also canceled Mike over Google searches.

        I could probably get on my local news pretty easily because they have a "call in" with "experts" show (Especially since people are looking for ways to make extra money now) but that wouldnt make me credible just by being on it.

        It would however give social proof and a false sense of being on the up an up. Thats why a lot of infomercials are going the News interview route.

        Bottom line: Go with your gut. Look at the whole body of work and not
        just the one post.
        I agree w/ this.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          Proves nothing. I know what I'm talking about, most of the time, but have very few mention in the serps. For personal reasons.
          Means nothing too. Remember a certain scammer? She sounded very credible.
          No it's not. Thats having a PR person. Do you honestly think they called Mike out of the blue?

          Remember, they also canceled Mike over Google searches.

          I could probably get on my local news pretty easily because they have a "call in" with "experts" show (Especially since people are looking for ways to make extra money now) but that wouldnt make me credible just by being on it.

          It would however give social proof and a false sense of being on the up an up. Thats why a lot of infomercials are going the News interview route.

          I agree w/ this.

          Garrie, I understand what you're saying, but isn't this all about if somebody
          is making money or not? Whether or not Mike F has a good PR guy or not,
          I don't think anybody would argue that the man is making a lot of money.

          Isn't that the point of this whole thread, whether somebody is successful
          or not?

          Or maybe I'm just missing it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Garrie, I understand what you're saying, but isn't this all about if somebody
            is making money or not? Whether or not Mike F has a good PR guy or not,
            I don't think anybody would argue that the man is making a lot of money.

            Isn't that the point of this whole thread, whether somebody is successful
            or not?

            Or maybe I'm just missing it.
            I actually have the same PR guy as Mike and I can tell you that they don't just let anybody on without checking their background.

            On the flip side, I've been on Fox as well but that doesn't mean I make 8-figures like Mike does.
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          • Profile picture of the author ragnartm
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Garrie, I understand what you're saying, but isn't this all about if somebody
            is making money or not? Whether or not Mike F has a good PR guy or not,
            I don't think anybody would argue that the man is making a lot of money.

            Isn't that the point of this whole thread, whether somebody is successful
            or not?

            Or maybe I'm just missing it.
            Did he make a lot of money before all of his "make money" products? Isn't that the point? I don't know much about Mike F other than that I don't specifically like the guy for stuffing my email full of expensive products that he's an affiliate of, me and all the other members of his massive mailing list. So can't really tell you if he did or not.

            Hmmm,
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      • Profile picture of the author ragnartm
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Jeremy, I think you have to take it from where it comes.

        The best day I ever had was 4K. Honestly, I still can't believe it.

        Some here might think I've had to have had better days (not even close)
        and I am sure there are people here who think I don't make a dime.

        Credibility is a tough thing to get a handle on.

        But there are ways to get some idea of how successful somebody is.

        Go to Google and look up their name. See how many pages you find on them.

        Take a look at the content of their posts. See if they seem to know what
        they're talking about, such as in the actual advice they give. Or are they
        just spouting figures?

        Take a look at their reputation among other members who maybe have
        purchased their products. Find out what the general consensus is on them
        and if people think they are actually solid enough to build an income.

        See if you can find them outside of the Internet. I think Mike Filsaime was
        recently on Fox. Now THAT is credibility.

        Bottom line: Go with your gut. Look at the whole body of work and not
        just the one post.

        For the record, my 4K day was my best day as far as income. As far as
        opt ins, my best day was 100.

        But I still consider myself just an average marketer. As Kim S. said in one
        post, she spends more in a month in outsourcing than I make. So I'm
        nothing special.

        Again, look at the intentions, the body of work, and look around the
        Internet.

        From all of that, you can get some idea, though it is not fool proof because
        some people fly way under the radar.
        Just because someone's on a lot of websites or even in the news for Raking in cash doesn't mean they're providing a better product than others, just promoting it better. Anyway that's my opinion. But yes you make an excellent point and so does Jeremy, do some research and use your common sense, it will benefit you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Go to Google and look up their name. See how many pages you find on them.
        While that's one thing you can look for, it doesn't really mean a whole lot. For instance in my case, if you were to look up my real name, you'd find my IMDB entry and some WIKI stuff and a few other things like the books I've published and the like, but not a whole bunch as pertains to IM. All of my IM is done under names other than my own.
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  • Profile picture of the author steve m
    i used to be one of those mugs, now i am a lot more wary of what i buy
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    • Profile picture of the author jimewing2121
      I COMPLETELY AGREE.. It is so difficult trying to learn how this business works when I feel like I have no clue who is telling the truth and who isn't. I have only been doing this for only a month and have not made one sale and I don't know whether it is because I am not doing something correctly or if I just am not in the right niche. It's so frustrating. I feel like everyone has a hidden agenda.
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    • Profile picture of the author DeePower
      There is always more to the story.

      I could say "Make $750 in One Day by Writing One Article." And it's true. I have, more than once. But the catch is that I'm a professional writer and the articles were for print publications. I did get paid $750. It was for one article. It took less than one day to write the article. I've gotten paid more than that actually. It would be dishonest of me to use that as a headline to sell a report on article writing.

      Or "How to Ghost Write and Earn $100 Per Page." Done that too. But the catch is I wrote a business plan and the fee worked out to $100 a page. Again I feel it would be dishonest to use that as a headline for a course on how to earn money ghostwriting.

      Other people don't feel that way.

      Dee
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    Jeremy...you are spot on. There's been a load of WSO posts by people joining a few days back posting a load of one word replies to others to get their post count up then slapping a 'maked £10 million over night' WSO up!. In many cases these people have no profile and use a generic username.

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author derrickp
    I think a lot of this goes back to the quality of the forum suffering. Not Mr Says fault, not anyones fault. It is the influx of new people.

    With the increase of new people(to internet marketing) there is an influx in people who take advantage of these people.

    This isn't a slap at the Warrior Forum in anyway this happens all over the internet, stock market and other places.

    Derrick
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    • Profile picture of the author jimewing2121
      Originally Posted by JJ Manning View Post

      I have to bite my tongue sometimes to stop myself posting ' Bull....' to some posts.

      You get a feel from whats right and wrong, but it amazes me at the amount of posts I read that have my Bull.... radar buzzing with many warriors replying 'great post'....

      Perhaps I have to stop being so cynical or conversley start asking for proof

      Cheers

      JJ
      That is a great point about a straight BS post has people saying great post. Does anyone remember right before stompernet came out like a month of 2 ago and there was a huge post about it. Someone was saying that it is going to be great and then there were also people saying that they got a free sample and it was the best thing out there? I also remember there were a couple people posting saying that some of the people saying it was so great were involved with the product so they were going to get a cut of the money.

      That is when I started to see that people can be very secretive on this forum. I feel like sometimes they are trying to sell to you when they aren't making it seem like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Todd Walker
    For those that are going to say, "Bull..." show me proof are really jsut wasting your time for two reasons.

    One) the proof will be mocked up and fake

    Two) the person who is actually making that much would not show proof, and also, would have enough knowledge of the subject to prove their presence being true.

    Bottom line is, those that play the 'fake it till you make it' always get caught, because every time there is an obstacle they will fake that they went around it, and it will grow and grow and the BOOOM!
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  • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
    It all boils down separating the assertions from the statements of fact. If it can't be proven, it's just an assertion. Don't be an ass.
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Hey, you can have open proof and still people say bull. I had a thread where everything was out in the open and still had people challenge me. Funny thing was, I wasn't selling them anything. Another point that should be mentioned is that sometimes a method will work for one person and not another. The difference could be in a tiny detail that neither the poster nor the reader realize.

    Having said that, there are many scammers out there willing to take as much money as they can from the WF and run. We need to stop those people, and if you see bull, don't keep quiet.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author MizzCindy
    Jeremy - thank you for this thread! It's definitely an evergreen topic. There's always an influx of new folks to the forum. Sometimes our newest members just don't have a good framework of reference to determine what's real and what's not. This message is always worth repeating!

    Bring your common sense with you when reading claims on this - and any other - forum. Simple as that!

    Cindy
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  • Profile picture of the author deu12000
    I completely agree with you Jeremy. There are a couple of members, actually one in particular that I've been looking at recently and I don't believe anything he says. He's a master regurgitator. All of his posts are in agreement or posting something someone else says (aka regurgitating). He makes big claims and I just don't believe the guy. He is probably considered respected by some members (probably the newer one's) and is probably friends with others so I will keep the name to myself.

    Hint: There was a scammer that was a member for a short period of time, made a ton of posts to "earn" rep, then made a WSO. If my assumptions are correct this guy is following in his footsteps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amy Bass
    I remember several months ago reading a post by a guy who was desperate for some money and said he was completely broke and was basically looking for handouts. I checked out his signature and it said something to the effect of:

    "Click Here to Make $20,000 a Month"

    I couldn't believe that he was posting that he was broke and was trying to promote this product in his signature. I had a good chuckle out of that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Giannetti
    With Marketers and Creditbility.....What they DON"T say is more important than what they do SAY.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
      Booya Homie!!!!!!

      Keepin it real
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      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
        There are a couple of marketing lessons you can learn from this post:

        # 1: Intelligent people are skeptical about any claims you make and you should do everything you can in your marketing to PROVE that what you're telling people is true.

        # 2: Forums and other Web 2.0 type sites are an amazing way to slide past a lot of people's defenses without proof.

        That's valuable as an honest marketer because in many niches people's defenses are up so high it's very difficult to get any kind of message to them.

        But it also means you have to be vigilant with yourself as a buyer and a reader that you don't assume everything you read is true when you're on a forum or site where your guard might be down a little.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        I tend to have more of an "I DON'T CARE" response than an "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU" response.

        The way I see it, when it comes to sharing "figures" of any kind it's kind of like the issue of confidence. Truly confident people don't go around talking about how confident they are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Lance, I could care less about the figures that are spewed...The INTENT is what makes me sick to my stomach.

          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          I tend to have more of an "I DON'T CARE" response than an "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU" response.

          The way I see it, when it comes to sharing "figures" of any kind it's kind of like the issue of confidence. Truly confident people don't go around talking about how confident they are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          I tend to have more of an "I DON'T CARE" response than an "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU" response.

          The way I see it, when it comes to sharing "figures" of any kind it's kind of like the issue of confidence. Truly confident people don't go around talking about how confident they are.
          ...or have to mention in every other post how much they make.

          Thank you for that post.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Go to Google and look up their name. See how many pages you find on them.
            That used to be true - but no more. I have found new marketers with pages of results - that all lead back to them and were created by them.
            They have "about me" info ranked (free sites), hubs, lens, multiple blogs, article directories, forum posts - yet if you look beyond the pages of results you find someone who has done little or nothing except promote his own name. With the sources available now online, it's very easy to game the "pages" and "results".


            Remember a certain scammer? She sounded very credible.
            Yes, to a point. She was able to create loyalty in some members and those of us who questioned the person's credentials or truthfulness were shouted down by the followers several times till we gave up on it.

            She was not only a scammer - but also a rather good con artist who told people what they wanted to hear.

            # 1: Intelligent people are skeptical about any claims you make and you should do everything you can in your marketing to PROVE that what you're telling people is true.

            # 2: Forums and other Web 2.0 type sites are an amazing way to slide past a lot of people's defenses without proof.
            #1 - instead of talking only about proving their own earnings, the best sellers spend that page space telling you what their product will do for your business. A sales page that is all about the seller's income tells me the product is all about the seller's bottom line, not mine.

            #2 - VERY true

            I tend to have more of an "I DON'T CARE" response than an "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU" response.
            The way I see it, when it comes to sharing "figures" of any kind it's kind of like the issue of confidence. Truly confident people don't go around talking about how confident they are.
            The "prove it" posts are useless as they are made by those who don't believe anything and by those who will believe anything if you put numbers in front of them. They will post "I don't believe it" - but will never try a system (or take free advice) to prove or disprove it works.

            Those who have not learned to make decisions by looking at and analyzing facts and making personal judgments are more likely to be taken in by hype. They focus on "prove this worked for you? " - instead of "will this work for me".

            It's just humans being human. Some can, some can't. Some will, some won't. Some will only complain while for others "it's all about me".

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
              Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

              Quite often the proof is in the pudding - if you get a taste for the products of these people you will quickly see either a house of cards or one built on rock.

              The most obvious initial reaction is usually the right one.
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              That used to be true - but no more. I have found new marketers with pages of results - that all lead back to them and were created by them.
              They have "about me" info ranked (free sites), hubs, lens, multiple blogs, article directories, forum posts - yet if you look beyond the pages of results you find someone who has done little or nothing except promote his own name. With the sources available now online, it's very easy to game the "pages" and "results".

              #1 - instead of talking only about proving their own earnings, the best sellers spend that page space telling you what their product will do for your business. A sales page that is all about the seller's income tells me the product is all about the seller's bottom line, not mine.

              The "prove it" posts are useless as they are made by those who don't believe anything and by those who will believe anything if you put numbers in front of them. They will post "I don't believe it" - but will never try a system (or take free advice) to prove or disprove it works.

              Those who have not learned to make decisions by looking at and analyzing facts and making personal judgments are more likely to be taken in by hype. They focus on "prove this worked for you? " - instead of "will this work for me".

              It's just humans being human. Some can, some can't. Some will, some won't. Some will only complain while for others "it's all about me".

              kay
              I couldn't have said it better.

              Sorry for the long quoting of both posts, but I strongly agree with both points and I had to quote them almost entirely.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          I tend to have more of an "I DON'T CARE" response than an "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU" response.

          The way I see it, when it comes to sharing "figures" of any kind it's kind of like the issue of confidence. Truly confident people don't go around talking about how confident they are.
          Not ALWAYS the case.

          I remember a couple of years back when I had my very first 4 figure day (almost 5 figure on the first day, actually). I was advised (by more than one successful marketer) to post that right here on this forum.

          The rationale was that my being relatively "new" in IM and having that kind of day would help give others a bit of hope, etc. that they could do it too.

          In the end, I did not feel comfortable making that kind of post - so I didn't. Mostly because I felt it was no one else's business but mine - and that it would start a "prove it" fest that I was just not going to do and let it spoil my big day

          It had very little to do with confidence (in my case) on way or the other.

          Although, I guess there ARE some that need that kind of recognition...

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Not ALWAYS the case.
            I remember a couple of years back when I had my very first 4 figure day (almost 5 figure on the first day, actually). I was advised (by more than one successful marketer) to post that right here on this forum.

            The rationale was that my being relatively "new" in IM and having that kind of day would help give others a bit of hope, etc. that they could do it too.
            Mike, you're right. That's a different perspective from the way I was looking at it. I was thinking more of the braggart type post. I have nothing wrong with people posting things to inspire others. And frankly, I like to celebrate the success of others.

            It all depends on the motives, I guess. Good point.

            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            In the end, I did not feel comfortable making that kind of post - so I didn't. Mostly because I felt it was no one else's business but mine
            Gotta respect that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
    My experience has been that those who are making serious money, usually keep quiet about it...with the exception of those that are offering proof so as to sell their products.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Quite often the proof is in the pudding - if you get a taste for the products of these people you will quickly see either a house of cards or one built on rock.

    The most obvious initial reaction is usually the right one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    Yep, i've seen a ton of stuff lately on the forum that leaves me shaking my head in disgust. I should honestly change my username to the Jaded Warrior.

    But then again, does it surprise any of the old timers that this sort of cyclic crap posting is taking place? Not me, that's for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Maybe I'm way off base here, but here recently I've seen a rash of posts that I feel like replying to with a simple...I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!

    Anyone else seeing the same thing?

    It's almost as if people think that by writing that they make 10K in a day or that they added 1,000,000 people to their list in one day that somehow it makes it true.

    Now, I would never actually reply to a post in the way that I described, but for some of the people that are buying into this crap, stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself, does it make sense? If it does not make sense in your own head, there is a good chance that it is not true.

    Essentially, what people like this try to do is "fake it until they make it". Luckily for them, there is often enough people that buy into their hype that they actually see a pay day. Sadly, many of the people that do buy into it are the ones that end up getting hurt.

    When it comes to business, always have your "common sense guard" firmly in the "on" position.

    Jeremy
    I'm glad you don't believe me...because it's obvious you're not ready for my product.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      But what if you really do make that kind of money everyday?

      I make 2 million dollars an hour selling $47.00 ebooks.

      Beat that!
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

        But what if you really do make that kind of money everyday?

        I make 2 million dollars an hour selling $47.00 ebooks.

        Beat that!
        I don't think you would be posting on this forum if you were actually making $2 million per hour. I would think you would be too busy hanging out with fellow billionaires to hanging out with lil old us. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
          Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

          I don't think you would be posting on this forum if you were actually making $2 million per hour. I would think you would be too busy hanging out with fellow billionaires to hanging out with lil old us. :p
          What if I really enjoy posting here?

          My billionaire friends are very boring.
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  • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
    There is definitely BS posted in the forum from time to time,
    heck where ever you find people, you'll find BS eventually

    Proof is often never given.

    And when it is...it can be faked anyways.

    I mean, I could tell you I made 3 grand in my first month online,
    and give no proof...and those people that ask for it...get out! It
    can be faked anyway, don't believe me if you don't wanna

    Etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author HunkMoneyLuke
    I just joined and have been sadly disappointed by so many posts like you describe. But I will keep digging
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You don't have to dig far here to find high quality information. Better to look for that and learn from it than to look for junk posts or worry overmuch about those saying one thing and promoting another.

      Good place to start is Best Warrior Threads

      Another is by joining the War Room here

      kay
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      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author HunkMoneyLuke
    thanks Kay, your advice is appreciated!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      I agree a lot of BS going on but there is a lot of great information here so don't let the BS artist discourage you. As Kay wrote:

      You don't have to dig far here to find high quality information. Better to look for that and learn from it than to look for junk posts or worry overmuch about those saying one thing and promoting another.

      Good place to start is Best Warrior Threads

      Another is by joining the War Room here
      I usually don't even bother opening the I made 10K in a minute threads here or in the WSO forum. You need to spend your forum time wisely (so you're out there working on your business not just reading forum posts) and reading those type of posts are usually a waste of time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
        I made $250,000,007 Spacebucks yesterday while watching reruns of "Spaceballs"!
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        • Profile picture of the author matthewd
          Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt View Post

          I made $250,000,007 Spacebucks yesterday while watching reruns of "Spaceballs"!
          Sorry, But I Just Don't Believe You...
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
            Originally Posted by matthewd View Post

            Sorry, But I Just Don't Believe You...
            Just ask "Pizza The Hut". He'll tell ya.
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            • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
              Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt View Post

              Just ask "Pizza The Hut". He'll tell ya.
              May the Schwartz be with you! My son and I watch this movie all the time...

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            • Profile picture of the author PaulSchubert
              Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt View Post

              Just ask "Pizza The Hut". He'll tell ya.
              Barf... Barf... BARF... Hey boss, my name is Barfolamew!

              I Love that movie!

              Remember Dark Helmet?
              Signature
              Paul Alan Schubert - "Success is a State of Mind"
              PaulSchubert.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Maybe I'm way off base here, but here recently I've seen a rash of posts that I feel like replying to with a simple...I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!

    Anyone else seeing the same thing?

    It's almost as if people think that by writing that they make 10K in a day or that they added 1,000,000 people to their list in one day that somehow it makes it true.

    Now, I would never actually reply to a post in the way that I described, but for some of the people that are buying into this crap, stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself, does it make sense? If it does not make sense in your own head, there is a good chance that it is not true.

    Essentially, what people like this try to do is "fake it until they make it". Luckily for them, there is often enough people that buy into their hype that they actually see a pay day. Sadly, many of the people that do buy into it are the ones that end up getting hurt.

    When it comes to business, always have your "common sense guard" firmly in the "on" position.

    Jeremy
    I agree that many people here do "fake it until they make it" but not everyone.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I actually believe most of what I read on this forum from people who I'm familiar with.

    You should be skeptical though if someone posts about their success, offers no proof, and has a link to their WSO in their sig.
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  • Profile picture of the author warner444
    Sometimes is is just too easy for us to believe something we want to believe.
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Garrie, I understand what you're saying, but isn't this all about if somebody
      is making money or not? Whether or not Mike F has a good PR guy or not,
      I don't think anybody would argue that the man is making a lot of money.

      Isn't that the point of this whole thread, whether somebody is successful
      or not?

      Or maybe I'm just missing it.
      It was about making money and credibility. You can have everything you mentioned and be broke or have none of it and be rolling in the dough.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        It was about making money and credibility. You can have everything you mentioned and be broke or have none of it and be rolling in the dough.
        That's very interesting. I guess I never looked at it that way.

        Thanks for that perspective on things.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        It was about making money and credibility. You can have everything you mentioned and be broke or have none of it and be rolling in the dough.
        So true. There is a big news item here in town (Minneapolis) about a very well known entrepreneur who we all thought was rich and successful. It's now on the news that it was all a ponzi scheme. And he had all the credibility and money in the world but it was based on a lie.

        MPR: Petters arrested in fraud investigation

        So it's not some sort of unique phenomena to Internet marketing. These types of folks who lie and fake there way to the top are all over.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        It was about making money and credibility. You can have everything you mentioned and be broke or have none of it and be rolling in the dough.
        So then, what you're saying is...no matter what someone says, someone else can (and probably will) find something wrong with it...

        Or, there's NO real way to know if someone is credible or not.

        What Steve says may not be 100% foolproof - but that's much better than doing nothing to check on someone's credibility. You just need to take everything with a grain of salt

        Or roll the dice and hope for the best
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        Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

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    • Profile picture of the author Gerry Humphrey
      "With my new site you can make less than ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS while sleeping!"

      I also don't like the slight of hand either, as in the 'headline' above... most people don't see the 'less', they just see the $$$$. Yeah, you should read everything, but it should be clear too.

      I am going to be happy when I see registrations on my site, and clickthru and links and people talking about my new site.

      I can't write copy... part of it is my reluctance to HYPE.

      (You can see my bad attempt at trying to write for a lame product at The POD System - The Solution To Your Paper Problem and you can download it without signing up at Download The POD System - The Solution To Your Paper Problem )

      There are a lot of people making a lot, but as said before for them to come out of nowhere and make these huge claims, nothing to back it up, and then when you try to use the product or ebook or process or whatever and it just doesn't work like that, they get mad when asking for a refund.

      Yeah, I have asked for a refund a couple times.. once was a wikipedia article slightly edited and printed as a PDF!

      I do hope to one day be able to say "This is how I made a decent membership site" but not "I had over 47,000 members on launch day!"

      Oh, and the headline at the top of this message.. well, I can guarantee that
      ;-)
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      Gerry Humphrey
      Business Consultant, Technical Support Rep, Developer, Trainer
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  • Profile picture of the author jelanik
    I've spent an absolute fortune on so many products on the internet. I couldn't find one that worked for me untlil recently. So I think it's a matter of finding a product/system that will work for you. That being said there were programs I bought that I thought bull shit as soon as I got it and had a hard time getting my money back. There are good programs out there on the net for sale that are legitimate. Knowing which ones are legit is the problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author ragnartm
      Originally Posted by jelanik View Post

      I've spent an absolute fortune on so many products on the internet. I couldn't find one that worked for me untlil recently. So I think it's a matter of finding a product/system that will work for you. That being said there were programs I bought that I thought bull shit as soon as I got it and had a hard time getting my money back. There are good programs out there on the net for sale that are legitimate. Knowing which ones are legit is the problem.
      To me it's more a matter of, don't buy much, apply the stuff you learn in the things you buy and see if it works. A guy I know Soren Jordansen said pretty much this: "I haven't read a single book on IM where if you implemented it you wouldn't make money." Maybe it's because he didn't buy "bad" ebooks or maybe, just maybe even the "bad" ones can make you money if implemented correctly.

      Thoughtfully,
      Signature

      Ragnar.

      Quality over quantity. Hire me to write highly shareable, user focused blog posts or articles.

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  • Profile picture of the author Plinko
    Good post Jeremy.

    Does the whole ebook sales letter not remind you of the American game show "the Price is Right?"

    The sales letter just calls out to you ... "Come on down, you're our next contestant."

    But then the roles are reversed and in the IM ebook world the sales letter starts calling out numbers as part of their outrageous claims. Each one tries to guess the correct $income$ claim that you will believe without going over.....because when they go over you say "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!"

    Hey, is it coincidence that my username is Plinko and I mentioned the Price is Right? I'm starting to think that there is something subliminal going on with me. Must go back to Vegas and hit up those video slots!
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    How about having a button near the "Thanks" button that says, "Nonsense!" or something --- that way members could click there to express their disbelief regarding any given post.

    -- TW
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  • Profile picture of the author MeTellYou
    Yeah. I hate when people do that. I have a tendency to trust people easily and it does hurt my wallet sometimes. ...
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    There are people lieing about their income on this forum to promote their WSO's, some have high post count. But I guess the OP is not talking about that but about (bad) hype.

    IM is like fishing. I think the fishing tales and fishing buddies is a good example, it's the same mentality. It's not lieing but - to look cool, a fishing buddy will tell how big the fish was (and possibly add some) but not tell how much hours he really spent to get that fish and how he got a cold or arthritis. Many of the fishing buddies don't really mind the exaggeration, talking about it is as fun and spicing up the reality is more fun.

    Some people don't realize how much they hurt others but doing the same in IM. It's about people's lives and families but some people would just play and not tell the full story. "I made $xxx with one article". That's fine my Warrior buddy, but you forgot to tell how many of your articles earn you almost nothing.

    Here is a rule of thumb:
    If somebody is known in this forum for their IM stuff, but unknown outside of this forum - be more careful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vector
    We should at least try as a community to alert each other when claims cross the line of hyperbole that's somewhat in the realm of believability and into a scam post. It hurts us all even if we know enough not fall for it. Try PM them and asking for an explanation. If it doesn't substantiate then involve an administrator. Just my two cents.
    Jay
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