HiJacked Links to WSO's

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, I'm not going to pass judgment on this one way or the other because
I'm trying to keep out of trouble these days.

I'll just give the members here a scenario and hopefully you'll tell me what
you think.

John Doe sees my link to my WSO in my sig (removed from this post for
obvious reasons). He clicks on it.

Instead of being taken to the WSO to see if it's something he is interested
in, he is taken to somebody else's WSO. He reads it and says, "Hmmm, this
sounds really good. I think I'll just get this instead."

He buys THAT WSO and leaves the WSO forum. He never even sees the one
that he was interested in.

Now, as a paying person for the WSO (it did cost me $20, did it not) don't
I at least have the right to have WSO seen without interference since I
did pay for that WSO?

Personally, I don't care. I make so many sales from WSOs that the one
guy who didn't get to see it isn't going to kill me. But what if everybody
who clicked on my WSO link was taken to somebody else's WSO and as
a result, I didn't make one sale? I think any member here would be upset
by that.

Now, I don't know what the circumstances of the supposed "hijack" was.

Did you click on a WSO link specifically and was taken somewhere else?

Or did you just log into the forum from outside of it and was taken to
the "forced viewing thread?"

Without knowing exactly what happened, I'm not going to pass judgment
either way. But certainly if somebody clicks on YOUR WSO link to view it,
one that you DID pay $20 for, and they're taken someplace else, then I
feel you have every right to be upset. After all, you ARE paying to have
your WSO shown.

I don't feel that's being unreasonable.

But again, without knowing the EXACT series of events, I'm not passing
judgment either way.

This doesn't happen every time someone clicks on someone elses WSO :-) This happens once no matter where they are in the forum.

"Hijacking" a WSO link is getting way carried away...

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

This doesn't happen every time someone clicks on someone elses WSO :-) This happens once no matter where they are in the forum.

"Hijacking" a WSO link is getting way carried away...

So then the only way this could possibly happen when clicking a direct
WSO link, is if they clicked on it through an email OUTSIDE the forum because
going to the forum the FIRST time through a normal forum section, would
trigger the forced message before you ever actually wanted to view an
actual thread. Then after that initial entry into the forum, it would no longer
happen during that session.

Therefore, the only time this could be a real problem is if a member were to
send an email to his list saying, "Hi, my new WSO is here" and gave them
the link. If his whole list, for argument sake, was not even a member of
the forum, they'd see the message before they ever even got to view
the WSO. Or are these messages only shown to members and drive by
viewers don't see them?

I think if the members were aware of this, they would be able to at least
warn their list that they may see another thread before they saw theirs
and could then point that out in the email.

This is the first time I've ever heard this brought up so it certainly can't be
a widespread problem.

But I did want to get all the facts straight before I said anything further.

I don't see it as a huge problem and probably won't happen all that often.

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isnedd

18 years ago

Alexa

I have been a paying member of this forum in the dim and distant past, but that was before your time here.

If Allen was directly behind this ploy, then I would be extremely surprised.

It may indeed generate some cash in the short-term, but in my experience (considerable), compulsion of the nature involved here, just breeds resentment.

It also hijacks external links to WSO's that people pay to have listed on this forum. Is that how you would treat your paying customers? It's certainly not how I would expect to get treated having paid to list a WSO and then have my external links hijacked to a competing WSO.

Indeed this is Allen's forum and he can do what he wishes with it. I don't have to agree with everything that he does, just because it's his forum.

In my opinion this is at best an ill-thought out strategy, as it offers no option other than the one presented.

If someone can convince me that my view is flawed in some way, I'm all ears.

Ian

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isnedd

18 years ago

Hi Allen

The circumstances are that I clicked on 2 separate external links to 2 separate current WSO's. On both occasions I was presented with the 'Recommendation'.

I clicked on the breadcrumb nav at the top of the forum and got the front page. I logged in, and tried to go to the WSO forum. Nope. I got the Recommendation again. I tried a couple of other forums as well and was presented with the Recommendation each time. Grrr. I eventually clicked the Recommendation out of sheer frustration more than anything else.

Having just tried one of those external links again, it does go to the WSO it's supposed to, so I guess the 'cookie' on the other WSO page is working.

It just strikes me that the degree of compulsion involved is going to generate considerable resentment, as it certainly did with me. I wanted to quickly check out the WSO's that were listed elsewhere and end up being given the run-around to view a WSO that I didn't even know existed and could care less about.

I'm pretty placid as a rule, but that got me so annoyed that I felt compelled to come and ask the question.

A suggestion. Giving people the option to view the Recommendation or continue to their intended destination I'm sure would alleviate what, to me, was an intensely annoying 5-10 minutes. I can't believe I'm alone in having those feelings.

Kind regards

Ian

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by isnedd

Hi Allen

The circumstances are that I clicked on 2 separate external links to 2 separate current WSO's. On both occasions I was presented with the 'Recommendation'.

I clicked on the breadcrumb nav at the top of the forum and got the front page. I logged in, and tried to go to the WSO forum. Nope. I got the Recommendation again. I tried a couple of other forums as well and was presented with the Recommendation each time. Grrr. I eventually clicked the Recommendation out of sheer frustration more than anything else.

Having just tried one of those external links again, it does go to the WSO it's supposed to, so I guess the 'cookie' on the other WSO page is working.

It just strikes me that the degree of compulsion involved is going to generate considerable resentment, as it certainly did with me. I wanted to quickly check out the WSO's that were listed elsewhere and end up being given the run-around to view a WSO that I didn't even know existed and could care less about.

I'm pretty placid as a rule, but that got me so annoyed that I felt compelled to come and ask the question.

A suggestion. Giving people the option to view the Recommendation or continue to their intended destination I'm sure would alleviate what, to me, was an intensely annoying 5-10 minutes. I can't believe I'm alone in having those feelings.

Kind regards

Ian

Well, Ian all that really proves is you were being a stubborn ass.

If you see something that tells you the admin wants you to view something BEFORE continuing to browse the forum, then do it. Don't bitch because it then will not allow you to go any further.

Seriously, if it took you 5 to 10 minutes to get around that notice then you've just created a problem where there was none. I don't know anyone here who took 5 minutes to get past that simple click.

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isnedd 18 years ago

Hi Allen

Originally Posted by admin

Well, Ian all that really proves is you were being a stubborn ass.

.

You are absolutely correct. Stubborn IS my other middle name.

As has been pointed out, this is your forum, to do with as you see fit and if I don't agree with something, then that's tough on me. I'll get over it.

I have expressed an opinion and for that opportunity, I thank you and also for taking the time to put your side of the situation.

I have no more to add on the subject that would contribute further to this discussion.

Kind regards

Ian
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- Paul Myers 18 years ago
  
  Tim,
  
  Maybe you should have quoted the part where I mentioned that by setting the forum up and inviting comments Allen gave us that right.
  
  You continue to confuse rights and privileges. This is a very common confusion.
  
  Depending on your philosophy, rights are either inherent or established by law. They are not to be casually usurped or interfered with.
  
  Privileges can be granted and revoked at a whim. As you can see, Allen is not so casual about how he uses that authority, but it still exists.
  
  Paul
  
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- Jose Delgado 18 years ago
  
  The bloody offers are GREAT!
  
  my 2 cents.
  
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timpears 18 years ago

I have to support Ian's right to be annoyed. Isn't that what a forum is for, a place to share opinions? When I encountered the ad yesterday it seemed like I didn't have any other option but to buy it, until I found my way out of it. I was a little annoyed also.

You are right, Allen is the owner and has the right to do as he chooses, and he needs to be able to make money for his efforts. But I read a thread about Frank Kern yesterday and some have the opinion that he will not let anyone get off his list once he gets your email address and many don't like that. No one seems to like Spam, and Frank seems to practice it. What is the difference if Allen doesn't allow you to side step it?

Allen will make the choice how he operates this forum, and we who come here will have to deal with those decisions. If Allen chooses to be rude, then that is his choice. And each action has a reaction.

I don't really care too much one way or the other. But I do support Ian's right to voice his opinion.
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Administrator 18 years ago

There are a couple valid points here that never even crossed my mind, such as Steven mentioned, mailing out to your list about a WSO, which many people do.

I can deactivate the script form running in the WSO forum just like it doesn't run in the PIP's forum.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion :-)

And actually I'm glad this one was voiced. I never even thought about someone mailing their lists. If it weren't for that it wouldn't be such a big deal but many people do mail their lists and not all of their list are Warrior Forum members.

Anyway, it has already been deactivated from the WSO section.

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18 years ago

I agree with Ian.

I find it very annoying when a site forces me to look at something other than what I clicked on before I can access my desired target.

I have stopped visiting/using such sites.

When I tried to read the WF for the first time to day, I was forced to read another thread before I could get where I wanted. I found it very annoying and completely ignored whatever it was.

My 2 cents...

Regards,

John

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by TE2

I agree with Ian.

I find it very annoying when a site forces me to look at something other than what I clicked on before I can access my desired target.

I have stopped visiting/using such sites.

When I tried to read the WF for the first time to day, I was forced to read another thread before I could get where I wanted. I found it very annoying and completely ignored whatever it was.

My 2 cents...

Regards,

John

Let me shove 45 banners at you and you won't find it so annoying anymore.

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JayXtreme 18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Let me shove 45 banners at you and you won't find it so annoying anymore.

Love it... this is brilliant....

I personally LOVE being marketed to.. we're all in this game... I say double the efforts Allen.. you certainly deserve it Sir..

Thanks for the WF... it rocks..

Peace

Jay
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Tom B Banned 18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Let me shove 45 banners at you and you won't find it so annoying anymore.

LOL

Now that was funny and a tad scary.

I think Allen should make people view Kevin Riley dancing if they complain about this stuff.
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Andyhenry

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

I never even thought about someone mailing their lists. If it weren't for that it wouldn't be such a big deal but many people do mail their lists and not all of their list are Warrior Forum members.

Probably because a WSO is supposed to be something that is special to forum members and not available to anyone else?

I know some people treat the WSO as their whole business and just keep pushing WSOs to everyone that's on their list, but if their list are not members - they shouldn't be getting pushed to a WSO, should they?

Or did the thinking behind the WSOs change at some point and I missed it? I thought they were special Warrior member only offers.

Andy

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nothing to see here.

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Frank Donovan

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Probably because a WSO is supposed to be something that is special to forum members and not available to anyone else?

I know some people treat the WSO as their whole business and just keep pushing WSOs to everyone that's on their list, but if their list are not members - they shouldn't be getting pushed to a WSO, should they?

Or did the thinking behind the WSOs change at some point and I missed it? I thought they were special Warrior member only offers.

Andy

Without wishing to take this thread on too much of a tangent (although the OP's problem seems to have been resolved ages back).. I have often wondered why the WSO forum couldn't just be accessible to signed-in members.

That would reduce a lot of the current gripes about "drive-by" browsers abusing the WSOs.

It would mean that marketers couldn't directly offer the WSO to their list - although they could recommend that their subscribers sign up to the forum - but as I see it, the WSO is first and foremost a privilege of membership.

Frank

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Derek S

18 years ago

Allen's Forum - he can do what he wants

My personal opinion... everyone in the WSO is a paying
customer of Allen and personally do not think paying
customers should have a forced ad placed in front of their
own for the same price of those who get in at a time there
are no forced ads.

But for those B!tching about this is the main section... get over it!
Many, many sites advertise this way and if you dont like... you pay
a premium to view the site with all ads removed.

Peace, Love & Rockenroll!

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Paul Myers

18 years ago

Tim,

But I do support Ian's right to voice his opinion.

Members here have only those privileges granted to them by Allen. We have no "rights" in his forum.

Sorry, but that's the way it works online. Just like guests in my house have only those privileges I grant them. If they don't like my rules, they have two legal and ethical choices: Accept them or leave.

Ian,

Be surprised, then. That's Allen's doing.

Those of us who paid for membership paid less than $50, a long time ago. I have a hard time thinking that anyone who's been here that long shouldn't have gotten far more than their money's worth from the investment. (If they haven't, why would they still be here after all that time?)

Having to look at one ad a week, or even a day, is trivial compared to the value available here to anyone who wants to find it. And it beats dealing with cluttered interfaces and the distracting banners and the like that many forums display on every single page.

The fact that a thing isn't the way you would prefer it is very different from claiming that there's something dumb, wrong or discourteous about it.

Paul

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JustinB913

18 years ago

I think that you are under the false assumption that the owner or moderator of this board actually owes you something. If you are not willing to take an extra ten seconds out of your day in order to bypass the advertisement in order to get on this message board, then it is pretty clear and simple, do not get on the board. I'm not trying to be rude, but I find that this forum is pretty valuable to me and the company I work for, and it doesn't really bother me that the moderator or the advertising department chose to advertise directly and make some $$$.

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ShayB 18 years ago

Just for the record, I don't mind being directed to a special offer at all. It sure beats having banner ads all over the place!

This forum has given me so much great advice and help - I don't have a problem with whatever Allen does.

(Although being able to thank more people via the "thanks" button would be nice......)

j/k

I love this forum.
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Jeff B 18 years ago

God forbid you're forced to read an ad on a marketing forum.

Seriously though, would you rather be forced to look at banners all over the place 100% of the time, or would you rather be forced to look at one ad every once in a while.

You didn't even actually have to read the ad. I saw the headline, already knew it wasn't for me and I hit the back button and went on my merry way to view the threads I wanted to view. While you wasted 5-10 minutes, I wasted 5-10 seconds.
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timpears 18 years ago

Paul,

Maybe you should have quoted the part where I mentioned that by setting the forum up and inviting comments Allen gave us that right. I objected to those that were blasting Ian for doing that, which is pretty close to against the TOS if not against them.

If you invite comments but then stop people from expressing them if they don't agree with you, then that is pretty poor. But each to their own point of view I guess. As long as it agrees with you.
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lakshaybehl

18 years ago

In one word...

This post is a waste of time.

This is Allen's forum and the Monkey God is a generous person, I know from all his activities.

All I know is that if you have a problem with this forum as it is now, then you don't know what marketing is like. I like to promote stuff to my list very actively, and this is ALLEN'S list.

Its just like you have to see a short WSO message once in a while, and you can take up on it if you think its good. Where's th compulsion.

Seriously, get some air into your lungs.

I have nothing against anyone, but I just know this... this is the best IM forum out there. It matters heavily forme. I would be willing to look at a new offer everyday beinbg promoted by Allen. he knows what he is doing, and promoted what he thinks is the absolute best.

-Lakshay

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GeorgR.

18 years ago

How on earth can i get my WSO hijacked?

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John Taylor

18 years ago

I don't think this thread is a waste of time, Ian raised
valid concerns. Allen addressed those concerns, fixed
a potential problem and all should now be well with the
world.

I don't have any problem at all in being shown what is
effectively a one-time-offer from time to time. These
are offers from fellow warriors and I'm all for supporting
other warriors.

John

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

These
are offers from fellow warriors and I'm all for supporting
other warriors.

John

That's something else I find kind of odd. I don't promote anything that's not created by a Warrior member.

Which means if you are angry over another Warrior being promoted here you can rest assured you will never be one of them.

I'm like Santa, I keep a frickin list...

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zerofill

18 years ago

It is smart marketing no matter how you look at it...like it or not...

However I am for it being shutoff in the WSO section...cause we mailed one of our lists and they were forced to look at Riley's...So hamster god...where's my affiliate commission?!?! LOL

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Paul Myers 18 years ago

Tim,

A couple of things I missed...

No one seems to like Spam, and Frank seems to practice it. What is the difference if Allen doesn't allow you to side step it?

That's like asking what the difference is between an uninvited guest coming into your house and being rude, and you going to someone else's house and arguing with them about their rules.

Spam isn't part of an agreed upon deal. It's forced on you, with no way to stop it. Note that you can take steps to make it invisible, but you can't stop it from being sent to YOUR property.

Visiting a forum is different. Don't like the rules? Don't visit. Completely under your control.

And no, this isn't something I defend only when I agree with the policies. It's a consistent stand I've held in digital forums since before I ever heard of this place.

If you doubt this, ask Allen. There are policies in place here now with which I disagree. I spoke up about them until Allen said they were not open to discussion. Since that point, I haven't discussed them.

If Allen chooses to be rude, then that is his choice.

"Doesn't fit my preferences" is very different from "is rude." However, you're correct in that it is your right to choose how to react/respond to them. No-one is claiming otherwise.

The one aspect of this that could reasonably be considered "rude" was pointed out and has been fixed.

Maybe you should have quoted the part where I mentioned that by setting the forum up and inviting comments Allen gave us that right.

Ummm... I must be missing that. Was it in this thread?

If you invite comments but then stop people from expressing them if they don't agree with you, then that is pretty poor.

Red herring.

If you set policies and tell folks about them in advance, and people ignore them, that's not the owner's problem.

Allen doesn't delete posts simply because they disagree with him. He never has. (Well, not in the roughly 10 years I've known him, anyway) If they violate the rules, or they have the potential to be harmful, that's a different matter.

Paul
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18 years ago

- For Your Consideration and Learning -

Problem: Keeping the customer happy so he/she will bring you his/her return business (participating in the forum) and recommend you to his friends.

What are the common reasons why customers are lost and how can that be avoided?

1. Customer was turned away by the indifferent attitude - 68%

2. Customer was dissatisfied with the product - 14%

3. Customer was lured away by competition - 9%

4. Customer was influenced by a friend to go elsewhere - 5%

5. Customer moves away - 3%

6. Death of the customer - 1%

Solution: Customer satisfaction is the key to success in virtually every business (even the WF).

Finding new customers is a great deal more difficult than it is to retain the customers you have, so it is extremely important to please your customers in every way possible.

Special attention to reason #1 should be had by all.

Regards,

John

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Paul Myers

18 years ago

John,

Another VERY common misconception is that anyone who reads your message or shows their face in your presence should be treated as a customer.

"Customer" does not equal "free member."

"Customer" does not equal "free subscriber."

Customer means someone who paid cash for a product or service.

Want to know a more certain cause of business failure online than customers feeling that you treated them indifferently?

Trying to please everyone.

Besides which, this place is a community. Yes, business gets done here, but Allen doesn't require that people take part in that if they choose not to do so. You can still visit and participate and learn.

Paul

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

"Customer" does not equal "free member."

"Customer" does not equal "free subscriber."

Customer means someone who paid cash for a product or service.

Want to know a more certain cause of business failure online than customers feeling that you treated them indifferently?

Trying to please everyone.

Paul

Paul,

I disagree with your assertions.

If I am not mistaken, and I don't think I am, this forum was built on "free members/subscribers". Without them, it would not exist. In this forum, "information" is exchanged. Therefore I assert, free members ARE the customers of WF. I am sure others will agree.

Further, as stated originally, "indifference" is THE #1 reason customers leave and go elsewhere. Trying to please everyone doesn't make the list.

Respectfully,

John

ps - A portion of my successful career included 12 years of sales, many more in service delivery, culminating as a VP of Sales and Operations. I think I may have a clue.

pps - I never lost a customer trying to please them. I only lost them when I didn't deliver. And that was rare.

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Thomas 18 years ago

Originally Posted by TE2

If I am not mistaken, and I don't think I am, this forum was built on "free members/subscribers". Without them, it would not exist.

Actually, it DID exist without them for a very long time: All of the original members of this Forum paid to be a part of it. IIRC, it was $60. The free people came (much) later.

Tommy.
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Frank Bruno

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

That's something else I find kind of odd. I don't promote anything that's not created by a Warrior member.

Which means if you are angry over another Warrior being promoted here you can rest assured you will never be one of them.

I'm like Santa, I keep a frickin list...

Amen....ROFL

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Sean A McAlister

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

That's something else I find kind of odd. I don't promote anything that's not created by a Warrior member.

Which means if you are angry over another Warrior being promoted here you can rest assured you will never be one of them.

I'm like Santa, I keep a frickin list...

Now that is the list I want to be on

Amen!

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Glenn Newsome 18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

I'm like Santa, I keep a frickin list...

frickin = N/A
buddy = Glenn
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Michael Oksa

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

That's something else I find kind of odd. I don't promote anything that's not created by a Warrior member.

Which means if you are angry over another Warrior being promoted here you can rest assured you will never be one of them.

I'm like Santa, I keep a frickin list...

Ho! Ho! Hopefully I'm not on the "naughty" list. And, if I'm on the "nice" list, please don't check it twice.

~Michael

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Alan Petersen

18 years ago

I have to agree. Ian did raise a valid point (about the WSO external linking) and Allen agreed even appreciated it was brought to his attention and he's fixed any potential issues by disabling it in the WSO forum. So not sure why people are still fussing. It's all fixed.

I also agree I prefer the way those ads are presented here vs. a gazillion flashing banners taking up the first half of the page plus both sidebars jam with ads as I've seen in other forums.

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I don't think this thread is a waste of time, Ian raised
valid concerns. Allen addressed those concerns, fixed
a potential problem and all should now be well with the
world.

I don't have any problem at all in being shown what is
effectively a one-time-offer from time to time. These
are offers from fellow warriors and I'm all for supporting
other warriors.

John

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obiswill

18 years ago

The very best and easiesy way around this would be to modify the script itself. I have read both sides of the complaint and have concluded that both sides are right, and both sides are wrong!

Many forums bombard you with ads (banner and otherwise) all the time and most of the offers are useless. However the whole purpose of 'ownership' is to do things your way, right or wrong. That being said, Allen, I don't think disabling the script is the solution, nor is complaining about it either.

From my going through it, it appears to be a rather simple php script. Simply have your programmer add a 'IP identifier' module to the script. This script will allow the offer to be shown to any 'new' people that come to the forum...but to anyone that has seen it, and logs in from the same location, it allows them to bypass directly to their link. I think this is a win win scenerio for all involved!

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candoit2

18 years ago

Allen,

I actually LOVE this approach. Why? The pages have copy designed to quickly grab attention. I study each one and have used some ideas to make more money this week then I have the past year in IM.

Don't turn it off for my accoumnt. I want to see these offers.

Aaron

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timpears

18 years ago

Well Paul,

We will just have to agree to disagree. All I did was support Ian's right to express his opinion when the responses were all suggesting he shouldn't complain. Allen obviously saw he had made an error in judgment as he indicated he made the change. When I signed up for this forum there was a TOS for my review. As usual I didn't read it, but they usually tell me that I can't be objectionable or rude and invite me to post my comments. We have an agreement, which gives me certain rights. That is the basis of an agreement, each party gets certain right to things. Obviously that right can be revoked so if you want to call it a privilege that is fine with me. But to lam base a person who is expressing his opinion without them being abusive or profane is out of line in my opinion.

What ever Allen wants to promote, is fine with me. I get irritated when I can't get by it if I choose to. But I will get over that and it is no big deal to me. The only thing I was trying to do was support Ian's right to express his opinion without being bashed for doing it. Which I believe is against the TOS. But frankly Scarlet, I don't really give a damn.

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by timpears

Well Paul,

We will just have to agree to disagree. All I did was support Ian's right to express his opinion when the responses were all suggesting he shouldn't complain. Allen obviously saw he had made an error in judgment as he indicated he made the change. When I signed up for this forum there was a TOS for my review. As usual I didn't read it, but they usually tell me that I can't be objectionable or rude and invite me to post my comments. We have an agreement, which gives me certain rights. That is the basis of an agreement, each party gets certain right to things. Obviously that right can be revoked so if you want to call it a privilege that is fine with me. But to lam base a person who is expressing his opinion without them being abusive or profane is out of line in my opinion.

What ever Allen wants to promote, is fine with me. I get irritated when I can't get by it if I choose to. But I will get over that and it is no big deal to me. The only thing I was trying to do was support Ian's right to express his opinion without being bashed for doing it. Which I believe is against the TOS. But frankly Scarlet, I don't really give a damn.

Ditto - Well stated Tim.

Regards,

John

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18 years ago

I see that page multiple times asking(forcing) me to view another thread.

Please can you remove it admin? I don't mind if, no, infact if the product rocks i WANT you to show me it.

The thing is you need to do it in a polite and stimulating way, not a forceful one.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Hoey

The thing is you need to do it in a polite and stimulating way, not a forceful one.

Polite = 30 Orders
Forceful = 341 and climbing rapidly.

If you are seeing it over and over again you must have a cookie problem. I saw it once and never again, the same with most members.

I'm not insensitive to the problem Matt, I don't want you seeing it again and again, but I can't figure out why it would happen to only a few yet.

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John Rowe

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Polite = 30 Orders
Forceful = 341 and climbing rapidly.

Wow, I would have never guessed those numbers!
Glad you posted them Allen. Two very valuable lessons for me in those numbers.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rowe

Wow, I would have never guessed those numbers!
Glad you posted them Allen. Two very valuable lessons for me in those numbers.

I was wondering if anyone would catch that lesson. And those are fact, you can verify with Kevin...

I started with that little wimpy notice at top and got all of 30 orders...

I'm going to try one of those slideup things at the bottom of the forum, one people can either ignore or even close if they want. How much you want to bet it's a total failure?

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

I was wondering if anyone would catch that lesson. And those are fact, you can verify with Kevin...

I started with that little wimpy notice at top and got all of 30 orders...

I'm going to try one of those slideup things at the bottom of the forum, one people can either ignore or even close if they want. How much you want to bet it's a total failure?

Allen, it's your forum and I would never even attempt to tell you what to do.

I am sure whatever you decide will be the right thing.

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I am sure whatever you decide will be the right thing.

Or at least the most profitable!

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

Or at least the most profitable!

Do you like being a member here?

This is two threads in the last few minutes I've seen with your smartass comments. We can fix that if you'd like?

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Do you like being a member here?

This is two threads in the last few minutes I've seen with your smartass comments. We can fix that if you'd like?

Huh? I honestly have no idea what you are referring to. Saying that I support you is somehow offensive? I thought I was on your side.

Can you elaborate please, if not here in PM or something?

Wow, that smackdown came out of nowhere. Man...

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

Huh? I honestly have no idea what you are referring to. Saying that I support you is somehow offensive? I thought I was on your side.

Can you elaborate please, if not here in PM or something?

Wow, that smackdown came out of nowhere. Man...

It sounded you like you meant I would choose profit over anything else. That freaks me out and anyone who knows me knows differently.

If that's not what you meant then I most certainly apologize.

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

It sounded you like you meant I would choose profit over anything else. That freaks me out and anyone who knows me knows differently.

If that's not what you meant then I most certainly apologize.

Didn't you see where I posted above that I fully support your right to run this forum as you see fit?

Damn, now I have a freaking handprint on the side of my face that's going to take two days to go away -- and I didn't do anything wrong to deserve it!

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

Didn't you see where I posted above that I fully support your right to run this forum as you see fit?

Damn, now I have a freaking handprint on the side of my face that's going to take two days to go away -- and I didn't do anything wrong to deserve it!

This is why interpreting things in print is SO hard and you have to be SO
careful what you say. I also took it as a snide remark that Allen would
choose profit over everything else. So if we both did, I'm sure others did
as well.

Ah, the joys of forum communication.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

Didn't you see where I posted above that I fully support your right to run this forum as you see fit?

Damn, now I have a freaking handprint on the side of my face that's going to take two days to go away -- and I didn't do anything wrong to deserve it!

:-) that's what the apology was for...

Although that other thread I mentioned where you posted did seem to be uncalled for. Where the fellow is reworking the other members site...

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

:-) that's what the apology was for...

Although that other thread I mentioned where you posted did seem to be uncalled for. Where the fellow is reworking the other members site...

As much as I hate these stupid things: :p perhaps I need to start using them.

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ExRat 18 years ago

Hi all,

Here's an experiment. Estimate how much revenue you have provided to the warrior forum.

Then choose someone/someplace else who/that you have provided more revenue to.

Then examine your relationship/communication with that person/entity.

Look at -

a) what they have tried to sell to you

b) how they have tried to sell it to you

c) how often they have tried to sell to you

d) what else they have provided for you above and beyond what they have tried to sell to you

Then compare those things with the same criteria for Allen/warrior forum. Then read through this thread again.

Take note of the fact that the issue was addressed and continues to be addressed by the person at the top.

Again, look at the others and compare the level/ease of communication.

..............

Personally, I appreciate the lack of banners. With the traffic that comes here, and the type of traffic, I am in awe at the self control of the admin here. I wouldn't be able to resist testing 5 different types of pitches each day on every single visitor. It would be just too tempting. And at times, we ask for it.

I also like the way that the worst I might receive here, is some kind of offer that interrupts by navigation to the forum for five seconds or less on occasion. If the admin was to use the sort of tactics that I see in 99% of IM emails that have ever seen my inbox, THEN I might be a little miffed. Specifically, I'm referring to the bullshit aspect within those email pitches and email headlines. That gets offensive.

The occasional offers here (about 10 at most in three years) are just about the most honestly presented offers I have seen in IM. Why is no one focusing on this at all? Isn't it a bit rude to ignore this and moan about an offer page that is having a few cookie issues and (heaven forbid) appearing more than once, or needing to be clicked through to get past it? (And it's the product of a warrior!)

Almost everywhere else I go and everything else I do involves wading through adverts, pitches and BS to get to a tiny morsel of meat. Sometimes there's nothing there of any consequence at all.

If I DO come across annoying adverts, pitches and BS it's from the members here in the posts, not the admin. It's the admin that provides the platform for us to do it.

I'm not necessarily saying that the whole thread is pointless, because it appears that some issues have been raised and things might be tweaked or resolved. But I'm not convinced that the initial manner of approach and the continuing gripes are at all constructive.
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ste25

Banned 18 years ago

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KarlWarren 18 years ago

Originally Posted by ste25

By being forceful it makes you look like you do choose profit over anything else.

Only by those with no "vision".

That would assume that Allen hasn't taken into consideration any other factors.
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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by ste25

But you said...

Originally Posted by admin

Polite = 30 Orders
Forceful = 341 and climbing rapidly.

By being forceful it makes you look like you do choose profit over anything else.

I think you're getting common marketing sense and the good of the forum mixed up.

I've never chose profit over the good of the forum...

Forced thread reads? I don't see that as harming this forum in any way whatsoever.

Following your train of thought people would do tests, find which one was 100 times more profitable, then can it because a couple people didn't like it.

That makes no sense at all...

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Steven Wagenheim 18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

Or at least the most profitable!

N/A N/A N/A N/A...N/A N/A N/A N/A...Hey Hey...Goodbye.
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- Steven Carl Kelly 18 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  N/A N/A N/A N/A...N/A N/A N/A N/A...Hey Hey...Goodbye.
  
  Huh? I don't get it. Is supporting Allen's right to make a profit somehow forbidden here?
  
  What the hell...
  
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18 years ago

Fair enough, money talks as always but it does has an adverse effect on the forum at least for me.

Once is enough but there is a problem where some of us have to view the thread several times a day and i can't seem to fix it.

I like the forum and i don't want to go no where else so it feels like a shame, i was trying to ask if you can compromise somehow.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Hoey

Fair enough, money talks as always but it does has an adverse effect on the forum at least for me.

Once is enough but there is a problem where some of us have to view the thread several times a day and i can't seem to fix it.

I like the forum and i don't want to go no where else so it feels like a shame, i was trying to ask if you can compromise somehow.

Money doesn't always talk in my case, I bend where I can bend, always have.

For both you and me I would like to find out why it happens to some members and not everyone else. Can you tell me what browser you use?

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mmurtha

18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Money doesn't always talk in my case, I bend where I can bend, always have.

For both you and me I would like to find out why it happens to some members and not everyone else. Can you tell me what browser you use?

I had the same problem after that last windows update with the service pack 3. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I was seeing those ads everytime I came into the forum, even when not logging out.

After about a week of checking around, I found that after I uninstalled the service pack, I had no more issues.

Btw, while I am talking about service pake 3, don't be surprise if you lose some folders from your desktop. It does happen.

Matt, try uninstalling it if you have it on your PC, and if you you have the automatic updates turned on, turn them off so you can select which updates you want to accept. Otherwise the update will be forced.

Hope this helps ...

Hey Ian,

Just for the record, I came on this forum about the same time as you - give or take a month or so.

And in that time, I haven't seen Allen get much here in the line of making a profit from this forum. When he started charging for WSOs people whinned a bit, but they got over it quickly.

I think we all have been spoiled in the past because he hasn't taken much in return. That's part of our problem. Now that he monetizing more then he did in the past, we can't handle it.

Well, I'm glad to see he's monetizing more. For his sake, and also ours. I imagine he has a lot of overhead to pay for this forum so we all can enjoy it for starters.

Plus that, if people have been watching him closely, they can learn a lot of stuff. It's made an excellent case study for me.

Btw, I'm not chomping at you. It is all relevant in the end. :p

Paul Myers,

Lol I se you are still at it. Some people never learn

Mary

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Paul Myers 18 years ago

John,

I disagree with your assertions.

Well, if you want to redefine words to fit your argument, go for it. 'Tis the season, eh? At least for the next 7 days.

Merriam-Webster Online defines "customer" as "one that purchases a commodity or service."

If you want to define the members as prospects, I wouldn't argue the point. I'd disagree, seeing them myself as members of a very real community, but that's a matter of perspective.

If I am not mistaken, and I don't think I am, this forum was built on "free members/subscribers".

Minor, but important, nit: This group was built on paying members, and later allowed free members to enter, due to problems with securing the forum in ways that didn't exclude folks who paid OTHER PEOPLE for access.

ps - A portion of my successful career included 12 years of sales, many more in service delivery, culminating as a VP of Sales and Operations. I think I may have a clue.

I'm sure you do.

I didn't say you were wrong about customers. Merely that you weren't talking about customers. I assume you know the difference between customers, prospects, suspects, guests and associates?

By the way... 20+ years in sales and sales training, along with over 20 years experience in electronic forums, including right around 10 of them as a member or moderator in this one.

We could probably trade a few clues.

Paul
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- Paul Myers 18 years ago
  
  It sounded you like you meant I would choose profit over anything else. That freaks me out and anyone who knows me knows differently.
  
  I can vouch for this.
  
  In the time I've known him, Allen has always put the good of the group ahead of making money on it, to the point where he's probably left millions on the table.
  
  And no, that is not an exaggeration.
  
  Some of you people would be surprised at what he's done to help this group out. This is clearly not directed at Ian: Some of the folks who come in here and play for free, bitching about how he runs the place, ought to be run right the hell back out.
  
  Paul
  
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- TE2 18 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Merriam-Webster Online defines "customer" as "one that purchases a commodity or service."
  
  Hey Paul,
  
  Not trying to parse words or redefine the meaning of what "is" is.... :-)
  
  Merriam is limited in its definition of customer. Please also consider this:
  
  - those who pay, or exchange value, for products or services.
  
  The key words being "exchange value".
  
  Respectfully,
  
  John
  
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  TE2 18 years ago
  
  WHAT IS A CUSTOMER?
  
  A customer is the most important person in any business.
  
  A customer is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him.
  
  A customer is not an interruption of our work. He is the purpose of it.
  
  A customer does us a favor when he comes in.
  
  We aren't doing him a favor by waiting on him.
  
  A customer is part of our business - not an outsider.
  
  A customer is not just money in the cash register.
  
  He is a human being with feelings and deserves to be treated with respect.
  
  A customer is a person who comes to us with his needs and his wants.
  
  It is our job to fill them.
  
  A customer deserves the most courteous attention we can give him.
  
  He is the lifeblood of this and every business. He pays your salary.
  
  Without him we would have to close our doors. Don't ever forget it.
  
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  Paul Myers 18 years ago
  
  John,
  
  Merriam is limited in its definition of customer. Please also consider this:
  
  - those who pay, or exchange value, for products or services.
  
  The exchange of information among associates in a community is not a commercial transaction. Participating here is a community exercise, not a business deal.
  
  Pay cash for a product, you're a customer. Trade services for a product, you can arguably be called that. Swap ideas freely among friends... Nah.
  
  And yes, the copy-and-paste about the value of customers is reasonably true, although there are real flaws in parts of it. Specifically, the implicit suggestion that all customers are equal. I have cheerfully fired customers in the past, and will, assuming I live long enough, do so again in the future.
  
  I don't deal with people as though either of us were somehow the superior party in the transaction. I deal with people as equals, or I don't deal with them at all.
  
  Paul
  
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Eric Lorence 18 years ago

Probably just a cookie problem, after clearing mine the offer returned in Firefox, but not in IE.

No biggie, just a few clicks to get past it either way.
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timpears 18 years ago

Matt,

If you are not getting the cookies set you can fix that pretty simple. I had this problem with Firefox on a few occasions and I finally figured a way to fix it. Go to your Tools, options, security tab. Select the exception button and put in the domain (only name and extension, no www etc.). And save that. If you use a different browser their should be a very similar method.

After I deleted cookies I have this problem and if a site will not set the cookie then this will fix it. Hope this helps.
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18 years ago

I don't clear my cookies, so it should only appear once. I use Firefox. Maybe i will try navigate to WF cookie and delete since i have used multi accounts when i forgot my passwords time ago.

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18 years ago

timpears, i've added the exception. If you don't hear from me, it means i have not seen it again, since it used to appear every now and then.

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obiswill

18 years ago

I think the issue has to deal with the cookie file when you sign in/out. At least that's what it was for me. I'm using Vista Premium. When I get timed out or logged out, and log back in, and go to the forum, it pops up. Once logged in, no problems at all and I haven't seen the offer.

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18 years ago

I also use WF from ym workplace if that has anything to do with it.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Hoey

I also use WF from ym workplace if that has anything to do with it.

That's interesting. Many people who have problems here I find out are trying to access the site from their workplace.

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Eric Lorence 18 years ago

Ad the whole time I thought is was a "special" offer just for me LOL

Maybe a better intro would be...

"Dear Warrior, you have been graciously invited to partake in the exceptional skills and knowledge of some of our best and brightest senior members for a very limited time..."

IMHO

Best!
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Floyd Fisher

18 years ago

Here's the real deal here people. It's time to be blunt.

A forum this large costs some serious coinage to keep running. How much? Well, without knowing the exact figures, I can safely say it's in the high 5 figures if not the low six figures and that is each month.

That means Allen has some real serious bills to pay to keep the lights on here. It's not just servers. It's also the administration, the software (go price a vbulletin install sometime if you think I'm kidding), and coders who put together neat features like Warrior Plus, and heaven knows what else.

Now, how would you propose he pay for all this?

1. Charge each of use a monthly fee of somewhere around $50 a month

2. Occasionally force you to view an ad for one of the JV's he currently doing?

I don't know about you, but I prefer the second option to the first. Heck, he can show me ads everytime I breathe here and it wouldn't matter to me. But then again, I understand the true power of this forum.....

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Here's the real deal here people. It's time to be blunt.

A forum this large costs some serious coinage to keep running. How much? Well, without knowing the exact figures, I can safely say it's in the high 5 figures if not the low six figures and that is each month.

That means Allen has some real serious bills to pay to keep the lights on here. It's not just servers. It's also the administration, the software (go price a vbulletin install sometime if you think I'm kidding), and coders who put together neat features like Warrior Plus, and heaven knows what else.

Now, how would you propose he pay for all this?

1. Charge each of use a monthly fee of somewhere around $50 a month

2. Occasionally force you to view an ad for one of the JV's he currently doing?

I don't know about you, but I prefer the second option to the first. Heck, he can show me ads everytime I breathe here and it wouldn't matter to me. But then again, I understand the true power of this forum.....

Floyd, thank you so much for putting this into perspective. We tend to
forget that Allen has a business to run too and this place can't come
cheap.

So yes, I agree. I'd rather be forced to view and ad (that I can always
close) than pay $50 a month...not that $50 a month wouldn't be worth
what this place has meant to me.

Maybe with a paid membership again we can weed out the people who
aren't serious about their business.

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18 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

A forum this large costs some serious coinage to keep running. How much? Well, without knowing the exact figures, I can safely say it's in the high 5 figures if not the low six figures and that is each month.

Sorry, but your numbers are way too high. I would have to think that if Allen is paying anywhere near $100,000 per month to keep this forum running then he would do himself well to shop around. It shouldn't cost a fraction of that.

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GeorgR.

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Here's the real deal here people. It's time to be blunt.

A forum this large costs some serious coinage to keep running. How much? Well, without knowing the exact figures, I can safely say it's in the high 5 figure

rofl

No offense. For sure not.

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Kyle Tully 18 years ago

I occasionally have cookie issues if I don't use the www before the domain name. You might want to try that if you haven't already.

But apart from the cookie issues... seriously it's 1 click. An offer from a fellow warrior. An offer he paid to make, that in turn benefits the entire community.
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Daniel Molano 18 years ago

I can't ****ing believe people are complaining about single time forced threads, which by the way happens very rarely.

Have you guys ever been to other forums at all? The WF is by far the forum with the LEAST hyped up offers and internal promotions going on.

I understand the OPs point when marketing your WSOs to your lists, but Allen already said he would fix that by disabling the script in the WSO section.
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18 years ago

I'll just share my own personal position on the matter:

I support Allen's right to run his forum however he sees fit. I support Ian's right to be annoyed.

For the same reasons I won't ever use a pop-up or a slide-in on my sites, I will personally never purchase anything in an offer that I am forced to go through to get to this forum or anything else.

I am likely in the minority.

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Administrator 18 years ago

Originally Posted by faxinator

I'll just share my own personal position on the matter:

I support Allen's right to run his forum however he sees fit. I support Ian's right to be annoyed.

For the same reasons I won't ever use a pop-up or a slide-in on my sites, I will personally never purchase anything in an offer that I am forced to go through to get to this forum or anything else.

I am likely in the minority.

See.. :-)

I just posted that I'm going to try a bottom slideup ad to try and avoid 'forcing' anyone to click on something.

And already, before I have even tried it we have someone who hates it.

Pleasing people is a path to the poor house...

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zerofill 18 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

Pleasing people is a path to the poor house...

Hahaha...ok that had to be said right when I was drinking coffee lol...thanks...LCD was getting dusty anyway...cleaned it up a bit now rofl...glad I don't drink sugar in my coffee.
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deu12000

18 years ago

I like the forced announcements. If I owned this forum I'd have forced announcements and banners all over the place. After a while you get blind to banners so they don't bother at all. Most of the major forums have ads all over them. This isn't a non-profit website. Be happy there aren't pop-ups everywhere.

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John Rowe

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

I can safely say it's in the high 5 figures if
not the low six figures and that is each month.

Floyd, if Allen is paying anywhere near what you've
suggested to run this forum, he's doing things very wrong.

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Floyd Fisher

18 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rowe

Floyd, if Allen is paying anywhere near what you've
suggested to run this forum, he's doing things very wrong.

If you think you can do better....contact Allen.

I'm totally serious. PM him with a contract proposal and see what he says.

Just let me know how many 'ROFL's' he answers back with.

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John Rowe

18 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

If you think you can do better....contact Allen.
I'm totally serious. PM him with a contract proposal and see what he says.
Just let me know how many 'ROFL's' he answers back with.

Floyd, the main point in my post wasn't about Allen.
I chose that wording instead of outright saying that your figures are way off.

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bobsstuff

18 years ago

Today, my first stop was the PAID WarRoom Forum.
I was forced to look at some WSO before I could get there.
I thought is was a pain in the neck......well a bit lower, but this is a family forum.
My vote is to dump this marketing tactic.

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Dave Allen

18 years ago

I believe that we have an incredible opportunity here.

Shouldn't we be focusing on the positive energy instead
of the nagative? (<--- intentional)

Is this forum perfect? No. Will it ever be? Of course not.

But think about this...

Why is it that the likes of so many accomplished marketers
have either started here or chose to be part of this forum,
instead of say, DP or any other IM forum?

Point is, focus on the good -- not only will you get more of
it, but you'll learn to appreciate what an amazing place
this really is.

This is where the magic is found.

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18 years ago

Hmmm...

Maybe, just maybe, the OP and few others of us are NOT in the minority.

See this thread >

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...es-me-off.html

Regards,

John

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