84 replies
Last night I went to a cigar dinner hosted by Davidoff cigars and my local cigar shop.

It was $100 a plate type meal. I show up in shorts and t-shirt to this almost black tie affair - talk about feeling awkward. But they want my money so they let me in anyway.

As the first round of drinks come out I notice a mysterious stranger to my right.

I ordered a Crown neat - he orders a Bombay Sapphire - he's got my attention now.

I sneak a quick glance and notice this guy is dressed well - handmade leather shoots, custom fitted suit, cuff links with real stones in them, etc - and he's not drinking cheap either.

21 year old scotch, a snifter of a $235 bottle of rum (which by the way was heaven and worth every cent), and so on.

The meal was fantastic - a nice 8 ounce petite filet cooked medium rare, a few more drinks and an outstanding bottle of red wine.

After dinner I strike up a conversation with this mysterious stranger.

It isn't long before we start talking about what we both do for a living. I start off by letting him know I teach people how to approach small businesses to help them with the marketing.

It seems I've got his attention.

He slowly reaches into his custom suit, pulls out a business card and slides it across the table.

He's the CFO of a major television network.

Good thing I saved my I hate CFO of major television network jokes for later in the evening.

We start talking about marketing and we're clicking on all cylinders now.

He agrees with me on almost everything - it can't be a one time event, he can't believe how stupid some business owners are and swears if he ever finds the bank that financed them he has a draw full of crap he'd like to sell them.

I'm starting to like this guy.

That was before I found out this.

I ask him - so for my small business - what would it cost me to advertise during the local news on one of your stations.

Without missing a beat he tells me.

I almost spit my $235 rum all over his custom made suit.

$150 per 30 second spot.

Let me say that again - 150 friggin dollars for 30 seconds of time.

Do the math.

1 30 second commercial ran ONCE a day for an entire year would cost me ... $54,750 a year.

For one commercial - on one channel - once a day.

That's a great deal if you can make sure all your customers are watching TV at 9:32pm every night.

Then he keeps going.

"Tim - I really like a drug dealer - I give you a taste, once you get started you can't ever stop. If you stop - you die."

I'm starting not to like this guy now.

He tells me to call him and we can talk strategy.

I throw away his card on the way out.

Now listen folks - I live in small town USA here in West Texas. We have less than 250,000 people in our little town and if I had to guess the average income is around $35,000 a year (just a guess).

And here is a guy wants small business owners to invest over $50,000 a year in one SINGLE form of advertising.

So don't sit there and tell me you can't help these people because they won't pay.

Hell I could charge customers $5,000 and I'd still be 90% cheaper than this guy.

It gets even better.

Seriously - not only can I beat this guy on price, I can also track how many people come to your site, how much time they spend, where they spend it, etc.

He can't.

You have the upper hand in this fight - you're leaner and meaner. Seriously. You can do things he can't and at a price that would put him out of business.

Stop making excuses - get in the fight.

Tim
#$54 #750 #offline marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Points2shop1
    Banned
    $150 every 30 seconds! Eek!
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  • Profile picture of the author n8
    Tim, great story man! I love the fact you used this as a motivator
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Great share, Tim.

    Interesting story, and a very valid point, too!

    I bet the rum was heavenly though

    Peace

    Jay
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    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I don't know Tim, $150 for 30 seconds of TV time? That might be pretty attractive depending on how many people are watching. I guess you'd also have a one-time cost to produce the commercial though.

    Great story.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      I don't know Tim, $150 for 30 seconds of TV time? That might be pretty attractive depending on how many people are watching. I guess you'd also have a one-time cost to produce the commercial though.
      I could probably agree with this.

      The TV, ads, programmes etc is a massive motivator. The Google searches go crazy, right after ads or major programmes.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
        Guys here is some food for thought.

        You run a carpet cleaning company.

        You compete on price (which is wrong in the first place) so you're offering $99-$147 cleaning jobs.

        You've got a yellow page ad that is costing you $300-$3000 a month

        Then you've got a single TV commercial that runs you $150 a day or $4500 a month.

        $7500 a month in advertising - 51 jobs is what it would take you to break even - or 2 jobs a day. Not counting employee cost, equipment, gas, etc.

        For most small businesses that is way to much.

        My mom can't afford that.

        But what she can afford is a simple website (Darlene's Sewing Etc. - Lubbock Texas (806) 786-9394) that looks like crap (it's getting redesigned) and helps her be #1 in the local area. Add on top of that a Google Places and a Yahoo Local top ranking and you've got someone who is making money off of their advertising, not losing it.

        YMMV.

        Tim
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
          Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

          Add on top of that a Google Places and a Yahoo Local top ranking and you've got someone who is making money off of their advertising, not losing it.

          YMMV.

          Tim
          I like the spirit of what you're saying and the motivation for offline marketers - but who says they're not making money off of their advertising? I think that's a broad assumption.

          However, you are absolutely right that those prices make it easier to pitch cheaper alternatives.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
            Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

            I like the spirit of what you're saying and the motivation for offline marketers - but who says they're not making money off of their advertising? I think that's a broad assumption.
            Ron -

            Lets look at you as an example. Take away all the other publicity you get (and you get a ton) and lets say you wanted to sell your Cookbook through traditional media.

            So you get the commercial made and put up just one spot a night on one channel - $150 bucks.

            Your book sells for what $11 on amazon right now so that means you would need 13.6 customers to buy each time your commercial was on - in order to just break even at that price. 4,977 people in a year - again not to make profit from the commercial - just to break even.

            Is it possible - I really don't know to be honest (if you do please share).

            TV, Radio, Yellow Pages, Newspaper - they all work for the right business in the right situation.

            The issue to me is just getting in the game in those circles and when it comes to offline marketing showing them a cheaper alternative that is more flexible, have greater control, etc.

            Ok enough work - cigar time.

            Enjoy the weekend everyone!
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Valid point.

          But the companies already advertising on TV that you want to compete for likely have much higher gross revenues. For an HVAC company that does $1,500,000 in revenue, $50,000/year is 3.33% of revenue.

          And if you figure there is a certain level of borrowed credibility and implied endorsement attained by advertising regularly during the nightly news, that may be more than worth it to some companies.

          But as far as the companies that want to advertise but can't afford TV spots, or those that only advertise on TV because they think they can't afford not to...then yes, you have a great apples to oranges comparison to make that will frame your services as a more positive alternative.

          Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

          Guys here is some food for thought.

          You run a carpet cleaning company.

          You compete on price (which is wrong in the first place) so you're offering $99-$147 cleaning jobs.

          You've got a yellow page ad that is costing you $300-$3000 a month

          Then you've got a single TV commercial that runs you $150 a day or $4500 a month.

          $7500 a month in advertising - 51 jobs is what it would take you to break even - or 2 jobs a day. Not counting employee cost, equipment, gas, etc.

          For most small businesses that is way to much.

          My mom can't afford that.

          But what she can afford is a simple website (Darlene's Sewing Etc. - Lubbock Texas (806) 786-9394) that looks like crap (it's getting redesigned) and helps her be #1 in the local area. Add on top of that a Google Places and a Yahoo Local top ranking and you've got someone who is making money off of their advertising, not losing it.

          YMMV.

          Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            But what she can afford is a simple website (Darlene's Sewing Etc. - Lubbock Texas (806) 786-9394) that looks like crap (it's getting redesigned) and helps her be #1 in the local area.
            And that likely brings her zero customers, despite what was claimed on a recent webinar.

            However, I have no doubt businesses can be sold on this stuff. It's just too bad most of them are wasting their money on it.
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            • Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              And that likely brings her zero customers, despite what was claimed on a recent webinar.

              However, I have no doubt businesses can be sold on this stuff. It's just too bad most of them are wasting their money on it.
              Wait a second. Am I reading this right? Are you saying it is a waste of money for an offline business to have a website?

              Instead of trying to jump on someone try to get the point of the post and learn something. Apply it to what you do. It doesn't have to be offline stuff.
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            • Profile picture of the author Music City Copy
              Anyone who is thinking that this guy would sell one spot for $150 is not getting the point. They will get you on the hook for a huge monthly contract, or they won't be anywhere near that price.

              Great post Tim. I think most of the Offliners get your point.

              The exact same thing could be said about Yellow Pages packages. Even though "Yellow Pages-type" companies are getting smarter and starting to package SEO, PPC, and other online marketing services in with their Yellow Pages ads, they are still charging these business owners $2k, $3k, $4k, or more per MONTH...and they are limited to the services in the package! They don't get anywhere near the depth and breadth of a comprehensive marketing plan that a good marketing consultant can provide.

              Thinking bigger is the way to go. Your major media "competitors" are charging these business owners a LOT more for a LOT less.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              And that likely brings her zero customers, despite what was claimed on a recent webinar.

              However, I have no doubt businesses can be sold on this stuff. It's just too bad most of them are wasting their money on it.
              Actually it brings her 3-10 customers per week - we track. Keep guessing though if it makes you feel better.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
                  Mark & Mike-

                  You guys seemed to have missed the point.

                  It isn't a $150 commercial.

                  It's a $54,750 investment (yes it can be less).

                  What my point of the email was to show anyone who is thinking about offline marketing that no matter what you charge you will most likely be the cheapest alternative to other forms of advertising.

                  Hell charge someone $40,000 for a website and you're still cheaper and most cost effective than a single 30 second commercial on a single station.

                  The point is you're cheaper and faster, more responsive and have a faster ability to turn and change on a moments notice.

                  It isn't about the gin

                  It isn't about the commercial

                  It's about people who should stop dreaming and start doing.


                  There is a market

                  They need your help

                  They are able to pay you



                  That is what the OP was about.
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

                    What my point of the email was to show anyone who is thinking about offline marketing that no matter what you charge you will most likely be the cheapest alternative to other forms of advertising.
                    I think it much more important that you pointed out several ways the offline IM option is a BETTER alternative to other forms of advertising. Cheaper is one thing; cheaper and better is something else.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
                      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                      I think it much more important that you pointed out several ways the offline IM option is a BETTER alternative to other forms of advertising. Cheaper is one thing; cheaper and better is something else.

                      I agree - that is why I said the following in my last post:

                      The point is you're cheaper and faster, more responsive and have a faster ability to turn and change on a moments notice.
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        • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
          Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

          ...you've got someone who is making money off of their advertising, not losing it.
          His drug dealer comment was a bit of an unfortunate one, but I don't think Wealthy Gent would have continued to prosper if his TV ads weren't providing a good return on the outlay to those businesses with the budget to pay for them. Unsatisfied customers don't just fail to become repeat customers, they spread the word too. He doesn't sound too worried that his pool of prospects is diminishing, so I'd assume that most of his customers have felt they'd got value afterwards for the price they'd paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author Donald Truehart
    Question is. Can you bring the same amount of traffic as the tube?

    For a small town the number of searches on G! are very low.
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    Great story Tim... I have to admit that from time to time I think that some small business owners cannot afford me. Then, when I read a story like this it gets me going again!
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  • Profile picture of the author mainstreetcm
    Television advertising is expensive. Period. It does not matter what market your in, its going to be expensive. Imagine what the costs of advertising on the local news in one of the big ten media markets? I live in an area with less than 50,000 people strung across three towns. No media sales department will speak with you unless you want to spend at least $1000 a month. I can't imagine the minimums in larger cities.

    Why do you think television has feared the internet since it became a hub for entertainment not too long ago? Because less people watching means less advertising dollars. On top of that television advertising is about as targeted as slinging mud at a wall and with the prominence of DVR services, many people are actually SKIPPING those ads you paid dearly for.

    Now there are some really affordable cable opportunities, but your ad will NOT be running during prime time, or much less at any time when there are a large number of people watching television.
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  • Profile picture of the author redfan
    Nice story, but Bombay Sapphire AND gin??? Was the guy an alcoholic or just plain weird? Bombay Sapphire IS gin..... :S
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  • Profile picture of the author Latsyrc
    I thought $150 is cheap for tv.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    I'm shocked that you were shocked that a 30 sec commercial during the news was $150.
    I think this just one more example of an "IM'er" who was still somewhat out of touch with what businesses are willing to spend on their marketing. And Tim's been around for a while.

    I do work for a car dealership that spent $19,000 on a direct mail campaign for a weekend sale (they didn't spend that with me ). They spend several grand every month on newspaper ads, when their own customer surveys show that none of them came in from a newspaper ad. They spent $1,600 a month on some cable tv stuff (which is a far cry from the evening news).They spend over 4k a month on ppc (which I have managed for them for the past 4 years). And this dealer is barely on the radar as far as dealerships and their marketing.

    Do you know how much autotrader.com costs a dealer? it starts at $1600 and goes as high as $10,000 - PER MONTH - and there's over 1000 dealerships in ohio alone who use them.

    I know of plenty of dealers that spend well over 30 grand a month just on 'old school' print media ads!

    "Tim - I really like a drug dealer - I give you a taste, once you get started you can't ever stop. If you stop - you die."
    Notice this guy said it was like a drug - that means it works. It evidently works well enough that most businesses go back for more and more and become dependent on it. This should be every marketers dream - to have your efforts pay off so well that the client can't dream of ending the relationship with you.

    Anyone know what yellow pages advertising costs? I know of small businesses that payed 1k a month for just a basic listing.

    Now listen folks - I live in small town USA here in West Texas. We have less than 250,000 people in our little town and if I had to guess the average income is around $35,000 a year (just a guess).

    And here is a guy wants small business owners to invest over $50,000 a year in one SINGLE form of advertising.
    That's the cost of doing business. Comparing a companies expenditures and income with the local average personal incomes is pointless really.

    Here's some examples of "real world" numbers for local bricks & mortar businesses:

    My step-father's mortgage payment on his business's building is more then his personal "income" from the business. Heck, it costs him 100k a month just keep the doors open.

    My 'real' dad is an attorney, and his monthly take home pay is a fraction of what his practice brings in after he pays his legal secratary, office rent, yellow pages ad, utilities, etc.

    I think a lot of "offline"'ers (this is not directed at tim directly) reaction to this stuff (market prices for marketing) paints them as small time, uneducated in business, uneducated in their marketplace, and in general just niave in regards to marketing. Seriously - who would go into business as a marketing consultant (which is what 'offliners' really are) and NOT first find out what businesses spend on various marketing mediums? This knowledge is what enables me to be paid premium prices - because I can intelligently position my services in comparison to other marketing endeavors.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Jason -

      If you think that offline marketers are out of touch you might want to get tested for drugs.

      In addition to the hours I spend on a weekly basis talking and working with business owners, the $35,000 marketing library I own, countless speaking engagements, customers and friends, endless trade magazines, and research staff I have a fair understanding on what works and doesn't work in the local area.

      Gin boy said that 35% of their advertising comes from auto dealers - almost another 50% from large corporate clients leaving just 15% of the market out there for the smaller business.

      My example was to show how much people could charge in the face of other forms of advertising - I'm sorry that you and others missed that.

      The fact in my area is this - people aren't leaving the yellow pages, TV, and radio in record numbers because its working so well.

      If TV and radio are part of an overall strategy and they have the money to afford it - then great. But business owners I talk with can't and won't spend what most people make in a year on a single spot on a single station "hoping" to get clients.

      Anyone thinking about offline marketing should do their research - call your local ad reps for TV, radio, and newspaper (don't forget yellow pages) and see how much they charge.

      Most of you will be shocked at the sticker price. That allows you to have comparable figures when you go meet with your client.

      Show them value for the money spent and also what you can offer over other companies and you'll have a lot of clients headed your way.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
        How can you possibly say "that is way to much"? If the business spends $7,500 in marketing and only brings in $7,500 in profit from it, then the advertising was free. Not only that, but he now has customers to go back to for repeat business, generate referals, get his branded truck seen in the neighborhood (great for following up with neighbors), etc. This business has just built a customer list for free - and all of us here should understand just how valuable a customer list is
        Jason - remind me again - how many offline clients do you have?

        Offline businesses don't do the stuff you think they do. Do they have a customer list - yep. Do they follow up - sadly no they don't. I've had 5 different pest control companies spray my yard in 2 years - why because no one follows up with me 3 months after the last time.

        You're not talking to a theory guy here Jason - I do this stuff everyday and I am guessing you do as well or are you just speculating here?
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        • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
          Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

          Jason - remind me again - how many offline clients do you have?

          Offline businesses don't do the stuff you think they do. Do they have a customer list - yep. Do they follow up - sadly no they don't. I've had 5 different pest control companies spray my yard in 2 years - why because no one follows up with me 3 months after the last time.

          You're not talking to a theory guy here Jason - I do this stuff everyday and I am guessing you do as well or are you just speculating here?
          I have 26 dealership clients in my city alone on various annual contracts - ranging from small independent lots to some of the largest franchise dealers in the city. I have clients in other fields as well - attorneys, dentists, insurance companies, dent repair shops, glass replacement, industrial equipment suppliers, etc.

          I did seo, ppc, and website development for businesses well before I got into "IM" for myself. I am not an IM'er who went offline - I'm an offliner who came into IM because it just made sense to use my skills for myself
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

          Jason - remind me again - how many offline clients do you have?

          Offline businesses don't do the stuff you think they do. Do they have a customer list - yep. Do they follow up - sadly no they don't. I've had 5 different pest control companies spray my yard in 2 years - why because no one follows up with me 3 months after the last time.

          You're not talking to a theory guy here Jason - I do this stuff everyday and I am guessing you do as well or are you just speculating here?
          You can't be serious? This whole thread you've done nothing but speculate costs and profits, while admitting ZERO experience with TV ads.

          To avoid the "hypocrite of the week award", shouldn't you actually try the TV ad before bitching that it's too expensive? You know, actually "market" on TV before forming an opinion on marketing on TV? Otherwise, you're just speculating and we know how you feel about that.
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          • Profile picture of the author ApaOps5
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            You can't be serious? This whole thread you've done nothing but speculate costs and profits, while admitting ZERO experience with TV ads.

            To avoid the "hypocrite of the week award", shouldn't you actually try the TV ad before bitching that it's too expensive? You know, actually "market" on TV before forming an opinion on marketing on TV? Otherwise, you're just speculating and we know how you feel about that.
            Boy did you ever miss the point of the post!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jagged
        Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

        Anyone thinking about offline marketing should do their research - call your local ad reps for TV, radio, and newspaper (don't forget yellow pages) and see how much they charge.
        A lot of people here are shocked at the price......I'm more shocked that they did not already know this.....it's looking like not many have done their research...
        If your in Offline Marketing in any capacity, this is one of the first things that need to be done...research your local market, research your competition...

        ~Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    $7500 a month in advertising - 51 jobs is what it would take you to break even - or 2 jobs a day. Not counting employee cost, equipment, gas, etc.

    For most small businesses that is way to much.
    I agree with some of what you say, but do not agree with where you take your conclusions.

    How can you possibly say "that is way to much"? If the business spends $7,500 in marketing and only brings in $7,500 in profit from it, then the advertising was free. Not only that, but he now has customers to go back to for repeat business, generate referals, get his branded truck seen in the neighborhood (great for following up with neighbors), etc. This business has just built a customer list for free - and all of us here should understand just how valuable a customer list is

    You simply can not ever say any marketing endeavor is 'too expensive' until you know how much business it brings in, what the lifetime value of a customer is, and so on. It requires the same analysis as ppc and other online marketing endeavours.
    edit: expensive needs to be determined in relationship to it's ROI.
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  • Profile picture of the author DrewClement
    Obviously I cannot speak for everyone reading this thread, but I think the issue with this example may be the exaggerated figures.

    I can personally say that when I read that a 30 second ad spot during the news was $150 I was floored.

    But in a much different way than most people.

    I see that at as a massive opportunity, and am quite blown away at how low that price is.

    Yes the figures that you have used are big and intimidating, and your example of Ron having to sell over 13 cookbooks for every ad spot just to break even are relevant points.

    However, I think the long term value of a TV ad spot has to be noted. Your example of how expensive it would be to run ONE ad spot every day is effective, and it does show you that there are cheaper alternatives.

    But, what should be noted is that the TV ad doesnt have to be run once every day.

    One ad spot at the right time ONCE a month could make an incredibly large difference, especially if you are using the example of a small town. Word of mouth would spread just through that one ad spot, and the residual sales that came from that have to be noted.

    In the consumer's mind a TV ad spot lends credibility and brandability to a business much more than a top listing in Google does.

    The example you used for Ron's cookbook is a good one. However, he really wouldnt need to sell 14 cookbooks every time the ad ran. What if he ran the ad once a month and saw that sales, visibility, and word of mouth really spread over those 30 days? Surely he could sell more than 14 cookbooks in a month through the right TV ad and turn a profit, right?

    He would also have the option to run his commercial once a week, spend $600 a month, and hope that 60 or 100 people bought the book each month in order to turn a profit.

    Even once the ad is shut down, and your marketing budget is obsolete, the lifetime value and residual brandability of that TV spot can and has proven to be quite effective.

    I have to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly, and that there are much cheaper ways. This is also a fantastic example to bring in when pitching to offline clients....however I just want to say that I do see the flip side of the coin.

    I really think customers LOVE TV ads, and it is that type of promotion that really earns their trust and proves your legitimate worth as a business. Much more so than a spot on the first page of Google for certain keywords can.

    Thats my opinion anyways, shell me for it if you wish.

    Thanks for sharing and inspiring post to say the least.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Lenaghan
      Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

      I can personally say that when I read that a 30 second ad spot during the news was $150 I was floored.
      I have to admit, that number surprised me too. I would have thought it would be a lot higher.

      Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

      One ad spot at the right time ONCE a month could make an incredibly large difference, especially if you are using the example of a small town. Word of mouth would spread just through that one ad spot, and the residual sales that came from that have to be noted.
      I don't think running an ad once, even if it's at the "right" time is going to keep you in people's minds, unless that ad is incredibly creative or memorable for some reason. I'm lucky if I remember the ad that played before the one I'm watching

      Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

      I really think customers LOVE TV ads, and it is that type of promotion that really earns their trust and proves your legitimate worth as a business. Much more so than a spot on the first page of Google for certain keywords can.
      Not me. I hate TV ads, and actually rarely watch them. Most of my TV watching is done by watching shows on DVD, and when I do watch stuff like the news or something on "live" TV, I almost never pay any attention to the ads. Except, of course, for the drug ads that tell you all the bad stuff that could happen, which is usually worse than what the drugs fixes. Those are highly entertaining.

      The big difference is that ads are pushing information at you whether you want/need it or not. When a result pops up at the top of Google, it's most likely there because you went looking for it.

      Lots of businesses can afford those TV ads and make a profit from them. I think Tim's point was more that we shouldn't underquote for our work, because these businesses pay a lot more money for less quantifiable forms of advertising.

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
    Great story, Tim. I'm dying for a good steak now!

    To all of you floored by the $150 price tag on a 30-second ad - that's nothing. I once worked at an ABC affiliate in a middle-sized market. If you wanted a 30-second spot during Grey's Anatomy, it would cost you $1,500!

    (hmm... maybe that's why I love article marketing so much... you get way more than 30 seconds to spend with the viewer, and it certainly doesn't cost $1,500!)
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  • Profile picture of the author LozJames
    Hey Tim, I've been a professional writer for over 10 years and I just wanted to say that the way you paced your story here in this thread was great to read - ever thought of writing a book (if you haven't already!).

    The part about the rum made me crack open a real ale!

    Cheers! :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      I think everyone is thinking that Tim is saying TV ad's are bad altogether. he's not. What he is saying that businesses will spend. You just gotta sell them right and know that you can charge high prices and still get paid. Something along those lines.

      As for the ad's they do work. They sell like hot cakes. As far as I can remember The National Sweet Company got rich by TV ad's so did Ferrero Rocher and so did many of those other massive brands out there that just popped out of nowhere.


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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Am I the only one who found that ad incredibly creepy?

        Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

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        • Profile picture of the author Dexx
          Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

          Am I the only one who found that ad incredibly creepy?
          Haha!! I was just thinking the same thing as it ended!
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        • Profile picture of the author inter123
          Maybe he liked you which was why the $150 price was quoted, shocked at how low it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, it USED to be that ALL commercials were 30 seconds. And $150 is CHEAP! WHAT, you thought it cost LESS!?!?!? He charges that little because it is the LOCAL NEWS! If it were a major market and/or a popular high rated show, it would cost MORE!

    There IS a reason why MOST people aren't advertising. NOW, without saying much more, even though it is not exactly a secret, you COULD do an HOUR for $20, but your coverage area would likely be LESS, or even have THEM pay YOU for an hour or even FOUR. But those methods DO require more work, which is why I am not doing them.

    BTW commercials USED to be 30 seconds. Last I heard, they had them of various lengths from 10 seconds to about 2.5 hours. SURPRISINGLY, there is now a commercial on TV that lasts about .5seconds! Last I knew, that was ILLEGAL!!!! But one company REALLY has a commercial that is .5seconds! It ties into a regular length commercial. So WHY do that? Do they believe in subliminal advertising SO much that they want to use it, or do they want to cut costs.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    You know why those ads are so expensive? They work.

    Don't dismiss them so quickly. You shouldn't have thrown the card away so quickly. I bet an ad on the show you were talking about would have generated significant leads for you to prospect.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Hey $150 for a 30 second TV ad or $20,000 for a full-page newspaper Ad...

    it all boils down to ROI really...

    Just look at the Superbowl's prices

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Actually I thought his rates were cheap for TV advertising.

      And how much a business pays is not especially relevant.

      What they get back in return from that advertising is the real key.

      If a business is paying $50,000 a year for advertising and it's bringing them back $100,000 in profits then it's a fantastic bargain for them.

      Of course you and I know that most advertising isn't tracked and produces almost no results.

      Also businesses are quite used to paying several thousand dollar checks for their advertising.

      Which means an internet marketer who focuses on helping businesses make real sales and profits and tracks their results can be making serious money while genuinely helping these businesses.

      Kindest regards,
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
        $150 for a 30 second spot Probably is a good deal. The real question is how many spots do you have to buy for the contract and when does your ad get run and on what local networks?

        When I was a salesman for a retail flooring outlet, most of our leads can in from television. Sometimes those transactions were for over $15,000 from a single customer brought in from television.

        So even though the TV ad budget for us was about $30,000 a year, it was worth it.

        Dan Kennedy says that just because one way gets a higher ROI than others, that doesn't mean you discontinue the other ways as long as they also bring in acceptable ROIs and don't cannibalize your marketing.

        With that said, Tim's MAIN point is one everyone should take to heart - if you think asking for $795 to redesign someone's website for on page optimization is a LOT - it's not. So for you who are doing the offline marketing or want to do it, abandon your preconceived notion about what is and isn't expensive.

        That's the most powerful takeaway from what Tim is saying and it's valuable.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Tim,

          I'm not saying this to be provocative - just honest.

          I think the tone of this post, the example used to emphasize the message and your replies to others are ummm disappointing.

          I almost spit my $235 rum all over his custom made suit.

          $150 per 30 second spot.

          Let me say that again - 150 friggin dollars for 30 seconds of time.

          Do the math.
          I agree with some of the replies - I was surprised at how cheap it was.

          If you think that it's incredible that people pay $54,750 for a year of those 30 second adverts, don't you think that this suggests that there might be something you can learn from this guy?

          1 30 second commercial ran ONCE a day for an entire year would cost me ... $54,750 a year.

          For one commercial - on one channel - once a day.

          That's a great deal if you can make sure all your customers are watching TV at 9:32pm every night.
          Apart from the fact that you're probably not aiming to advertise to your customers, but more likely your prospects, have you considered that it's quite feasible that with this medium you would be able to ensure that your target demographic would be there at 9.32pm every night?

          What about if the program that they are raving fans of is on at 9.33pm every night?

          I'm starting not to like this guy now.

          He tells me to call him and we can talk strategy.

          I throw away his card on the way out.
          If I've got to know someone briefly, they are successful and they give me their card and an invitation to call - no matter whether I like them hugely or not, I would never discard their card. The act of giving the card (especially as it's doubtful he saw you as a prospect) has value for you, it's an open door. But that's just my outlook.

          It seems that you haven't even considered that this guy could be a people 'connector' and that his contacts could be of a similar status.

          And here is a guy wants small business owners to invest over $50,000 a year in one SINGLE form of advertising.
          What makes you think he's after 'small business owners'?

          Stop making excuses - get in the fight.
          I agree with the closing message, but not much of the rest to be honest.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Tim,

            I'm not saying this to be provocative - just honest.

            I think the tone of this post, the example used to emphasize the message and your replies to others are ummm disappointing.

            I agree with some of the replies - I was surprised at how cheap it was.

            If you think that it's incredible that people pay $54,750 for a year of those 30 second adverts, don't you think that this suggests that there might be something you can learn from this guy?

            Apart from the fact that you're probably not aiming to advertise to your customers, but more likely your prospects, have you considered that it's quite feasible that with this medium you would be able to ensure that your target demographic would be there at 9.32pm every night?

            What about if the program that they are raving fans of is on at 9.33pm every night?

            If I've got to know someone briefly, they are successful and they give me their card and an invitation to call - no matter whether I like them hugely or not, I would never discard their card. The act of giving the card (especially as it's doubtful he saw you as a prospect) has value for you, it's an open door. But that's just my outlook.

            It seems that you haven't even considered that this guy could be a people 'connector' and that his contacts could be of a similar status.

            What makes you think he's after 'small business owners'?

            I agree with the closing message, but not much of the rest to be honest.
            That's ok - I didn't write it to seek your approval.

            If you get something from the post - great.

            If you don't get something from the post - your loss, not mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

    Now listen folks - I live in small town USA here in West Texas. We have less than 250,000 people in our little town and if I had to guess the average income is around $35,000 a year (just a guess).

    Tim
    250,000? I hate to break it to you, but you don't live in small town USA.
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  • Profile picture of the author ApaOps5
    A lot of funny people on this thread. Especially the ones calling out Tim and his webinars......


    Great read Tim!
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I was the producer of the 5 o'clock news at our local ABC affiliate. This is a very small market, ranking around 155. Our 30 second spots were about $500 during newscasts.

    TV advertising is very powerful, as long as you have a strategy. Spending $54k on one spot a day is not a strategy. Three spots every weekday for 30 days would cost $9k at your mentioned price. That might be a very worthwhile campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author l3vi501
    First off that was a very good story!

    Yes most small businesses cannot cut the price for a local TV or Radio commercial. However the medium size businesses can, and they want to have them commercials because the return is worth more than you are seeing.

    When you move away from paid performance ads and get into items like Magazine, Radio and TV you are talking about brand awareness.

    Brand advertising is not about how much did you spend and how many customers did you sell.

    Many small businesses don't understand this and grumble when they first run one ad and find that they did not get any calls. It is about becoming a brand that your customers know, and understand what it is you want them to know about you.

    This takes ads running all the time in primetime; you are building a brand. Just like running a billboard. That stuff does not bring in customers, it brings in brand value.

    All this ties into performance based ads and customer decisions. When they see your action-based ad or say hey I need that HVAC tech to fix my unit, they remember how they felt when they had seen your ads. When looking at company A that runs them ads, and company B which they frankly never has, they choose company A because the brand has created a value they trust or know over the time.

    The problem TV is having is that TV is moving to online, and this means they can not follow, so the business model is dying in some ways and they don't like that as much as would you if your customers moved to a medium that you could not be a part of due to the nature of the business.

    Things like Facebook has given companies like Starbucks the option to market in a new medium and shift a percentage of their TV advertising to social based advertising where they are building their brand just as they did before with only TV. This mean TV loses money and they can not do anything about it at this time.

    I hope you remembered something to get back in contact with this guy, otherwise you probably just chucked out your next investor if and when you want one. Sounded like he really liked you over all as a person. Shame!
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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    Yep, he's right. It does cost that much to place an ad on T.V. 15 second commercials during the Super Bowl are over $1 million. That's insane!
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      I have to agree the prospect of working a deal with the guy as far as referring your services to his already established pool of paying businesses, regardless of his attitude towards the hand that feeds him, was something you might have wanted to hold onto. Chances are you may have turned him into your competition by opening his eyes to the opportunities for SEO and site creation.

      One thing that I recently came across which completely floored me was the advertising costs of those billboards we all pass. As one warrior mentioned, the entire goal behind advertising, when done by smart professionals, is to establish the brand.

      One thing that online advertising does not exactly curb at the moment is the targeted local authority like TV does. You see if you sit and think about the time a prospective customer is actually going to head to a store and buy a product or service, the TV ads which had run every day for the last however many days are what steer them towards a specific business yet it was every night while they watched the news which placed the brand awareness.

      Online advertising for local businesses is more of an "in the moment" search for where to go, or a better price, or who has what product. In my opinion, TV and online advertising are different mediums all together for the process and targeting ability but not for pricing.

      A billboard in my area for a local business runs around $6,000 a month and up depending on the placement. I do not know what the TV spots run for around here exactly but I highly doubt $150 per 30 seconds at 9:30PM is even remotely close and it is much more.

      Chances are the guy was casing you and saw you as a small business who could benefit from his service, not sure how many successful people you know but for the most part they case everybody constantly.

      The point is, small businesses want to advertise and the online world is another way to do that but is still a youngin' as far as exposure and targeting locally. When Youtube and Facebook or whatever are able to run the ads they do to targeted local users for local businesses, that is when you will begin to see the local companies come out which are online advertising firms. I think it isn't too far away really that online advertising begins to shift towards local targeting just like the cable companies and TV stations do, just not quite there yet because the average internet user is all over the map clicking here and there and everywhere while hating tracking cookies. Syndication online? Right around the corner I think.

      Bringing small business online is a lucrative and prosperous business which I feel is on the forefront of reshaping the internet over the next ten years or so. Many just still do not understand it. Many businesses have a website but the most traffic they get to it is from the more traditional methods they use to advertise, TV, Newspapers, Billboards which show their website name. SEO is rarely being implemented to produce unique leads from search traffic for local targeting.

      Either way I think this was a very interesting thread but I am on the side which thinks the OP could have benefited by throwing this guy a bone for an ongoing avenue towards the businesses in the area who would be interested in coming online and would have valued his referral.

      Just an observation.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Wow! Is anyone interested in the CPM? How the hell can any of us evaluate the cost without knowing the reach?

        As someone aptly pointed out, crack wouldn't work if it made you feel like ****. If this guy is "hooking" businesses on commercials, the commercials are working (read: Making money)

        The deal is, if you think $150/day ad spend is high, you ain't ever gonna look for apartments on Central Park West.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    I'm with folks who thought $150 was a great freakin deal...

    Here's the thing though, they may not have to run the commercial every day of the year. I would guess there is some demographic data on which days and times have the highest viewer-ship for their target audience.

    If you combine that with your own testing for at least a few weeks (few months would be better), you could optimize and budget for only those days and times that provide the best ROI instead of running ads every day.

    For a company doing lead gen if they can get 1 or 2 SOLID leads during each commercial, that $150 would be so worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    Tv advertising has its place but it suffers fools even less than PPC and that is why so many people never do it, and those that do, most never get how it works or what it is suitable for. The TV station doesn't care, just like Google doesn't care.

    To a lesser extent the same is true of direct mail.

    Having said that Tim, I don't like the sound of the CFO one bit...
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  • Profile picture of the author thegamecat
    Firstly and most importantly Bombay Saphire IS Gin.

    Secondly, $150 for 30 seconds air time is peanuts and if you have the right product you will make a killing on it. Much like your web site traffc you need to know the demographics for the time slot you pick and viewer volumes. Then you'll know the sort of % you'll make.

    It sounds like a great deal to me, bovine america loves watching tv and buying what it's told to buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    I'd be willing to try it once, just to see if it worked.
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    Great story Tim. I loved how you framed your original post.

    For me I think $150 per minute of TV advertising is a bargain. But televison ads don't just run once. You need to buy a package of ads. Which can be far more than a $150 investment.

    IMO, it comes down to ROI. I think that you are not going to be able to run just one ad. Let's be conservative and say, you will run 10 ads in a month which equals to $1,500.

    Once the ad runs, on TV that's it. No one is ever going to see your ad again. Plus it is very much of a shot gun approach. You are hoping that the ad will appeal to the right demographic. You are hoping that it is seen by potential customers and that they will take action.

    But on the Internet it is different. Your customers are looking for a specific service.

    You could take that same $1,500, Mr. Businessman and invest it in a website. Your website is up 24/7 for an entire year. Plus you're potential customers are looking for the products or services that you offer.

    I think that is a huge difference.

    Or better, yet invest that $1,500 in 5 videos, that will be up much longer than a year. Your videos on YouTube (and of course other sites) will be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for far longer than a year.

    I think businesses that advertise on televison are huge potential clients. Most, if not all of them, already have websites. And let's face it, most of the websites are simple brochure sites. These businesses need to be educated on what Internet Marketers can do for their business and their ROI.

    I just need to say this: Tim Castleman does not exaggerate nor does he claim to be able to do things that he cannot do. He is brutally honest with himself, and his customers (of which I am one). He is ethical, and honest. And anyone who has heard him speak on his teleseminars is aware of that fact.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi pizzatherapy,

      I just need to say this: Tim Castleman does not exaggerate nor does he claim to be able to do things that he cannot do. He is brutally honest with himself, and his customers (of which I am one). He is ethical, and honest. And anyone who has heard him speak on his teleseminars is aware of that fact.
      That may be true, but the way he talks to people here suggests he's also closed-minded, conceited, arrogant and rude to anyone who isn't impressed with his self-aggrandising stories, doesn't suck up to him or dares to disagree.

      This is a discussion forum, not a blow-your-own-trumpet concert hall.

      From the OP -

      You have the upper hand in this fight - you're leaner and meaner. Seriously. You can do things he can't and at a price that would put him out of business.
      That might be true (although I doubt it), but I can't help noticing what looks suspiciously like a hint of envy. These offline business threads are getting increasingly amusing. They're like a magnet to all the wannabe-alphas all waving their you-know-whats around.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi pizzatherapy,

        That may be true, but the way he talks to people here suggests he's also closed-minded, conceited, arrogant and rude to anyone who isn't impressed with his self-aggrandising stories, doesn't suck up to him or dares to disagree.
        Roger,

        I can see how you would get that from some of Tim's responses. But I can tell you from meeting Tim that he is nothing like that in person.

        If we frown on self-aggrandising stories on this forum, you can add a lot of good people to the list who are guilty of that on occasion.

        Posting a new thread on this forum can be a risky proposition. There will always be those who dare to disagree with you, which is fine. The risk comes from the people who don't know how to disagree without challenging someone's character and experience. You can see where that happen in this post (prior to your reply) and where Tim got defensive. Perhaps a bit too defensive :-)

        I think Tim really wanted to motivate people who do offline marketing or are considering it. His intention may have also been to share his experience and position himself as a successful offline marketer, but I don't knock him for that. It's a classic example of a post with good intentions that went bad IMHO.

        And for the record, I disagreed with him on the TV ad comparison as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author tomw
          Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

          Roger,

          I can see how you would get that from some of Tim's responses. But I can tell you from meeting Tim that he is nothing like that in person.

          If we frown on self-aggrandising stories on this forum, you can add a lot of good people to the list who are guilty of that on occasion.

          Posting a new thread on this forum can be a risky proposition. There will always be those who dare to disagree with you, which is fine. The risk comes from the people who don't know how to disagree without challenging someone's character and experience. You can see where that happen in this post (prior to your reply) and where Tim got defensive.

          I think Tim really wanted to motivate people who do offline marketing or are considering it. His intention may have also been to share his experience and position himself as a successful offline marketer, but I don't knock him for that. It's a classic example of a post with good intentions that went bad IMHO.

          And for the record, I disagreed with him on the TV ad comparison as well.
          Level headed, common sense and diplomatic sentiments as ever, Ron.

          The funny thing is that you showing up in this thread is a wonderful and timely reminder of the power of exposing a brand, regardless of its size, to TV audiences.



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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Ron,

          That's fair enough. I respect you a lot, and therefore your opinion as well and you're always a gentleman in here.

          If we frown on self-aggrandising stories on this forum, you can add a lot of good people to the list who are guilty of that on occasion.
          I agree, although I would add that if there was a bit less self-aggrandisement around we wouldn't lose out that much, but some people might find that they learn more AND get more clients from a switch in attitude. The trouble is that we have a combination of people who are selling themselves here and selling to the forum audience as well as those who aren't.

          I know I made a reputation for myself in the past for being combative, argumentative and outspoken, but I hope I've reversed that somewhat over time.

          It's just that on this occasion, there was a particularly potent combination of elements that encouraged me to be blunt and up-front.

          I think Tim really wanted to motivate people who do offline marketing
          As I said in my original post, I thought the one (last) sentence was relatively helpful, but I also thought that the rest of it was less than helpful to someone who might want to do offline business. I personally thought the narrative regarding 'I'm starting to like this guy/it seems I've got his attention/I'm starting to not like this guy now' along with 'I throw away his card on the way out' was illuminating, but irrelevant, judgemental and not conducive to good business/networking practices.

          In my experience, it pays to be confident about your abilities but it's dangerous to be judgmental and quick to dismiss offline business people for a variety of reasons, but mainly because they are somewhat sceptical about internet business people selling to them (many have been burnt) and our industry has a reputation for producing wet-behind-the-ears geeky kids who might work wonders with a PC but are generally devoid of any real-life hard-won business experience.

          So I don't necessarily think that it's helpful to those people trying to start offline marketing to be led to believe that we are smarter than offline business people and that just because we are 'leaner' we will 'put them out of business.'

          These people often run 'real' businesses with real world overheads, employees, warehouses full of stock etc - so they must know something.

          The risk comes from the people who don't know how to disagree without challenging someone's character and experience.
          I didn't really see that happening much, but I saw the arrogance and other things in the OP, before anyone had even replied.

          Posting a new thread on this forum can be a risky proposition
          Of course, and so it should. It would be awful if people thought that they could start threads willy-nilly without offering something of value and without opening themselves up to any kind of relevant response. That's how we end up with educational discussions. If everyone was only allowed to agree with the OP, the discussion/education would be somewhat lacking. It's just as risky replying to threads as well, sometimes.

          It's possible that there are different levels of acceptance for certain attitudes regarding 'self-aggrandisement' on either side of the pond - my experience of the forum in general would suggest that there might be.

          I don't want to continue the criticism, but I thought it was right to elaborate a little more after your reply.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Gammage
    Putting aside the argument of whether or not TV ads are profitable for the small business sector (less than a million in annual sales), there is one thing that you can provide as an online marketing consultant to these businesses that Radio, TV, and Yellow Pages can never provide; a personal touch.

    Chances are, as a consultant, you will be performing at least some of the services that you are selling. You get to know the business. You have direct interaction with the owners (or at least decision makers) of the business. You are in the trenches with them.

    When these small business owners talk to Guy Smiley from the Yellow Pages, Radio, or TV...they are getting a sales pitch from a salesperson. Once the sale is landed, Guy Smiley disappears. Even if you outsource all the work, you are still the point of contact for the business...and they are going to come to trust you if you deliver on your word. Guy Smiley will eventually move on to the next job that offers better commissions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      It seems strange to me that some people see this as an "either . . . or".

      Before discounting TV or Yellow Pages or whatever, wouldn't it make sense to do a needs analysis of a prospective client?

      Throwing the guy's card away seems a bit like closing an important door.

      What do you do if a client says "I want TV ads twice a day for 6 months. Who do you know at the TV station?"

      "Er . . . er."

      Sure TV ads are ephemeral but you can exploit them beyond their original screening. Run the ads on your own website. Put them on Youtube. Put a TV in your shop window rerunning the news segment containing your ad.

      Link the TV station to your business "As seen on ABC TV!"

      That tag line hasn't lost its cachet yet.

      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post


    Good thing I saved my I hate CFO of major television network jokes for later in the evening.

    Tim
    Regardless of the blah, blah...this line made me laugh out loud

    I know several folks in TV advertising. Not a pretty business to be in, by all accounts.

    Cheers!
    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Steve -

      Glad you liked the joke.

      It's funny people are all bent about me throwing the guys card away. Lets see he is the CFO of a company that is 4 blocks from my house - yep going to be really hard to find this guy.

      Oh and I have his name in my email book as well.

      As far as him being a partner or me working for him - nope, I don't do that anymore.

      I've self financed with cash since day one and even though my boss is an @ss I'm ok with it that person is me.

      Sorry that some don't like my responses - I'm a pretty blunt guy and my need to please others stopped years ago.

      If all you got out of my OP is that I screwed up the Gin name (I'm a rum guy myself) then that is your choice, not mine.

      I'm not here to hand hold - what I do works and makes me a lot of money. If you want to learn more about it awesome - if not that's fine - plenty of shinny objects to go around.

      Also a lot of "names" and guru types have PM'd me and emailed me reminding me that post like this and the reactions are exactly why they only share content with paid members and not here at the WF.

      Might be worth looking in to - might not.

      Regardless whatever you got out of the OP and follow up discussion is up to you - not me. If you found value I'm glad you did - if you didn't that's fine to.

      Have a great week everyone.

      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Harlan
    Actually, I'd buy the airtime on remnant basis and give him the bird.

    $150? You can get it for a lot less.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      Harlan -

      Yep. You can also trade, you can also buy Google TV. There are a ton of ways to make TV work. For the right business and the right budget it works like gang busters.

      Same with Radio, Newspapers, Yellow Pages and more.

      Never said it didn't - just think for about 5% of the figure listed (if not less) I'd rather have something that can change at a moments notice, go viral, add/subtract, etc.

      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author vatonyt
    Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I totally agree that TV would be a black hole, BUT,

    The point your missing, and I hope you read this post......A very powerful, successful, wealthy businessman, with access to incredibly huge markets, that you just built great rapport with, just told you to hit him up to "talk strategy"!!!!

    Believe me......He doesn't view you as a possible client. He knows you are not his market, nor could you pay for his advertising. "hit me up" means your a bright guy with a good marketing mind (like him) and i see myself in you at your age, i can likely help you or you can likely help me.

    Example...Maybe you can use your on and offline skills to sell his marketing medium to companies who CAN pay that, because lots can....

    GO GET THE CARD AND BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS GUY.

    Follow up with him and ask permission to contact him with strategic questions now and then. He is likely to give you a different perspective on life and in business. Much like I hope this post has for you.

    Good luck.

    Tony
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Made me think - both ways. I mean, I actually quite fancy having a TV commercial and had no idea that I could afford it! But I also like your point - very well made.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Hasn't the internet already killed television?
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  • Profile picture of the author miked
    Amazing.

    After two pages of WF comments about gin, throwing away business cards, how rude and arrogant Tim is, and that $150 for a TV spot isn't really that expensive....

    Just about everyone missed Tim's point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by miked View Post

      Amazing.

      After two pages of WF comments about gin, throwing away business cards, how rude and arrogant Tim is, and that $150 for a TV spot isn't really that expensive....

      Just about everyone missed Tim's point.
      I'd bet you could count on one hand the number of people who missed the point and smoke a cigarette at the same time.

      The thing is, Tim either stated or implied other points as well, which some people took exception to. And his main point may have been lost in the shuffle. But that doesn't make his main point any less valid, and I really don't think many people missed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Abct
    This is inspiring. It certainly makes me want to get off my butt and do something
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Tim,

      Hate to break it to you but $150 for a 30 second spot is pretty cheap. In the Philly suburbs, I've gotten higher quotes for RADIO spots and you had to commit to 10+ spots for the contract.

      If he's quoting you $150 upfront then talking to him about remenant spots, off-peaks, weekend spots, etc. can get you lower rates. Ad rates can be negiotable if you know how to talk the adman's language.

      Ultimately, it comes down to what you're selling and using solid direct response marketing with a well-written commercial.

      The news might not be the best spot for your product either. You have to ask him about the demographics and match it to your ideal target prospect.

      Here's a great example that I can share.

      When I owned a massage therapy center, I had a client of mine who sold TV advertising for a local TV station. During one conversation, she told me at the time that the top 2 spots for hitting the 18-25 age market were: Gilmore Girls and WWF Smackdown.

      Not my choice of TV watching but it would be my top choice for an ad if I had a product I was trying to sell to that group.

      My client actually talked me out of advertising on her station because they didn't have a show with strong ratings that my target audience would watch.

      Eventually, I opted not to run a TV commercial at all but my point is TV ads are just one form of reaching your target prospects. If it's turning positive ROI, then it's worth every penny you spend regardless of how much the price tag might be.

      Take care,

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author KatyaSenina
    I'm seriously wondering, who in the right mind, buys this type of advertising from him.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Internet Marketing works best for Retail businesses that have a high client value like mentioned above. I have run Internet Marketing campaigns for Realtors here in San Diego for over 5 years, they make a large commission per sale.
    I feel the big difference is the people watching TV ads are less targeted a client, the person searching Google is looking for a product or service. Internet Marketing done correctly can put advertising on TV to shame.
    Sadly...the retail and offline business world are slow to spend the kind of money that they are spending on TV/Radio/Print and move that to Internet Marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author winston
    Years ago I was in the home improvement business and I did various TV campaigns on over 10 stations in 3 states. I started with 15 then 30 second commercial spot during prime time prices ranged from $100 - $700 per spot varied depending on demand and time slot. I bought various times but I preferred buying wide rotation which could run from anytime between 6:00am and 12:00 midnight nothing after 12:00 or before 6:00am. I did best buying all the airtime for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon movie usually 21 minutes total time. I had produced a telethon/informercial that I could run different segments of for pre-weekend spots that were thrown in the deals. The air time during the movies would run anywhere from $1,200 to $7,000 per. I had a budget of $30,000 per month not including long distance calls and weekend phone staff.

    I always ran direct response in order to track. I never ran a commercial I couldn't track the immediate results from, each one averaged around 100 plus leads for each campaign. Yes, you would get residual from those as well but they where minimal. We were doing $7 million a year just from the telethon with each project ranging from $3,000 to $30,000.

    I have also had campaigns over the years for different widget projects doing wide rotation commercials. Buying wide rotation in bulk can be as low as $5.00 per 30 second spot nationally and can generate anywhere from 1-5 sales per commercial depending on what your selling (I have had lots of bust campaigns testing). I also created my own agency in order to capture the 15% agency commissions even if you don't do this always ask for it.

    So does tv work? Yes, but just like PPC you've got to know what your doing.

    Is it good for branding? I never liked the idea of just branding, so I left that for the companies with money to burn.
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