Question for Level Headed Veterans of Warrior Forum

88 replies
In a recent webinar, two well known "gurus" went on about a "new method" that "isn't being taught anywhere". Guru A introduced Guru B, who went on to claim that this method was recently taught to him by an expert whom he paid tens of thousands of dollars for his lessons. He even had a neat little slide up that said he paid "$XX,XXX" for the lessons.

Well, the truth is that I am the guy that he bought the lessons from, but I certainly did not get the tens of thousands of dollars that he is claiming to have paid me. In fact, he bought my ebook right here on the warrior forum and joined my support forum.

A month later, my ebook evolved into a membership site. Guru B joined.

The tens of thousands of dollars that he claimed to have paid this expert... $29 for my eBook and $19 a month for a subscription to my membership site.

He is selling the course that "only he teaches" for $497. I found out about it when a member of the site posted about it in my forum.

I am curious to know what your reaction and response, if any, would be if you were me.
#forum #headed #level #question #vetrans #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author getsmartt
    I think I would start promoting my system as the one that taught Guru B his $XX,XXX secret and how they can get it for a fraction of the price that Guru B is charging


    JMHO of course
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  • Profile picture of the author dsprank
    Don't let it eat at you. Keep doing what you need to do to make money. Sometimes it is not worth the time lost to fight with these types of people. By the time you are done with these two clowns four more will get started doing the same thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Send him a PayPal invoice for the $XX,XXX he supposedly spent and let him know that by paying that amount, he will no longer be a liar.

      Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Send him a PayPal invoice for the ,XXX he supposedly spent and let him know that by paying that amount, he will no longer be a liar.

        Tina
        I love it! I never would have thought of that.

        I agree with most of the posts not to let it get to you but I also think you should at least call him out on this. Maybe he will think twice about it in the future. Maybe you will prompt his conscience to do something to somewhat right the wrong. Maybe he would at least publicly give you credit, send his list your forum address or something.
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      • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Send him a PayPal invoice for the ,XXX he supposedly spent and let him know that by paying that amount, he will no longer be a liar.

        Tina
        Lol Great Advice. I'm shocked that this person can have such false advertising without any legal consequences.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    In a recent webinar, two well known "gurus" went on about a "new method" that "isn't being taught anywhere". Guru A introduced Guru B, who went on to claim that this method was recently taught to him by an expert whom he paid tens of thousands of dollars for his lessons. He even had a neat little slide up that said he paid ",XXX" for the lessons.

    Well, the truth is that I am the guy that he bought the lessons from, but I certainly did not get the tens of thousands of dollars that he is claiming to have paid me. In fact, he bought my ebook right here on the warrior forum and joined my support forum.

    A month later, my ebook evolved into a membership site. Guru B joined.

    The tens of thousands of dollars that he claimed to have paid this expert... $29 for my eBook and $19 a month for a subscription to my membership site.

    He is selling the course that "only he teaches" for $497. I found out about it when a member of the site posted about it in my forum.

    I am curious to know what your reaction and response, if any, would be if you were me.
    Would you mind shooting me a PM with a link to the site or some other info? I'm having a similar "problem" at the moment...not really a problem I guess...more of a disagreement with a "guru"
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Like TMG Said,

    I would invoice them. If not, call them out, even here in this thread, so they have to respond, and explain to everyone what they've done.

    It's not fair. It's almost like ripping you off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jimmy Reilly
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      Like TMG Said,

      I would invoice them. If not, call them out, even here in this thread, so they have to respond, and explain to everyone what they've done.

      It's not fair. It's almost like ripping you off.
      I agree. If you are 100% sure that the 'guru' is referring to your product call them out by name publicly on this forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Reilly472 View Post

        If you are 100% sure that the 'guru' is referring to your product call them out by name publicly on this forum.
        Yes, I am 100% sure, but I'm thinking that calling him out on my marketing material would be a better idea.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Brian,

          E. Brian Rose
          Thanked 46,933 Times
          War Room Member


          I see you've learned some lessons from this incident


          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            Brian,

            E. Brian Rose
            Thanked 46,933 Times
            War Room Member


            I see you've learned some lessons from this incident


            Frank
            Ha. Clearly that is a joke.
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        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
          Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

          Yes, I am 100% sure, but I'm thinking that calling him out on my marketing material would be a better idea.
          I like this the best Brian. It's fair and you can make a rather interesting video quoting XXX-GURU, showing his prices, then explaining its yours and you are offering it for this price. Otherwise, TBH, I think they are playing a standard game of business and simply recognized an opportunity.

          If he was a stand-up Dude though, he should have offered YOU a partnership, rather than another bottom feeder GURU.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Once there was this company called Xerox that had this incredible technology sitting on a shelf at their Palo Alto Research Center called a "mouse" (well, and technically a Graphical User Interface too).

    One day, a guy named Steve Jobs took a tour of the PARC research facility and realized that he could market this technology better than Xerox.

    So he did.
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Once there was this company called Xerox that had this incredible technology sitting on a shelf at their Palo Alto Research Center called a "mouse" (well, and technically a Graphical User Interface too).

      One day, a guy named Steve Jobs took a tour of the PARC research facility and realized that he could market this technology better than Xerox.

      So he did.
      LOL That's not how the story went. they gave him the technology, stating that they had no use for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Once there was this company called Xerox that had this incredible technology sitting on a shelf at their Palo Alto Research Center called a "mouse" (well, and technically a Graphical User Interface too).

      One day, a guy named Steve Jobs took a tour of the PARC research facility and realized that he could market this technology better than Xerox.

      So he did.
      How did it end up?









      (kidding!)
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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Juan Pablo
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Once there was this company called Xerox that had this incredible technology sitting on a shelf at their Palo Alto Research Center called a "mouse" (well, and technically a Graphical User Interface too).

      One day, a guy named Steve Jobs took a tour of the PARC research facility and realized that he could market this technology better than Xerox.

      So he did.

      I remember that (and yes I am that old).
      There is always someone who thinks/knows that they can put something to better use. It's the way that they do it that is sometimes called ito question.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Peter Juan Pablo View Post

        I remember that (and yes I am that old).
        Do you remember that Xerox licensed the mouse patent from Honeywell?

        After Stanford produced the first mouse, demonstrating the concept (and naming it), Honeywell produced one that actually worked halfway decently... using a pair of angled silicone discs under the body of the mouse to track movement.

        Honeywell continued to produce this design well into the 1990s. And until the development of the optical mouse, every mouse fundamentally used this concept... except the discs were inside the body, turned by the ball.

        Incidentally, the notion of using a ball came from trackball technology originally invented by the Royal Canadian Navy in the 1950s.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    Jeremy, he said level headed, not hot headed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Welcome to the real world. Many so-called "gurus" lie when they promote their products. There's a big difference between puffery and complete lies, and this time around you're the victim. Think about this: do you suppose you're the only one? You're smart enough to know better.

    Unfortunate and, when you think about it, pretty pathetic.
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Welcome to the real world. Many so-called "gurus" lie when they promote their products. There's a big difference between puffery and complete lies, and this time around you're the victim. Think about this: do you suppose you're the only one? You're smart enough to know better.

      Unfortunate and, when you think about it, pretty pathetic.
      Absolutely not! I am sure that this happens all of the time. I am not looking for a fight, that is why I asked for level headed responses. I was looking for the best ways to take advantage of the situation.

      I am pretty sure that I have my course of action, thanks to all your responses and the PMs that I have received about this.
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      • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
        Well I, for one, am certainly going to pay close attention to any product you promote. If one product is worth tens of thousands of dollars......Wow!
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        • Profile picture of the author timpears
          Originally Posted by mcmahanusa View Post

          Well I, for one, am certainly going to pay close attention to any product you promote. If one product is worth tens of thousands of dollars......Wow!
          That would be a wise move. Brian is an absolute master of the IM business. I don't think you can do much better than his current WSO in his signature. It is so good, I put it in my sig too.

          Hell, you know it is good if that guru is telling folks that he paid five figures for it. I wonder what that guru would do if someone took his product and had it rewritten and posted it on ClickBank for sale? They would probably scream bloody hell. Funny how that works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    There's a reason Allen had the forum configured to substitute with the word "Goober."
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Do you have a copy of the webinar?

    Do you have a copy of his product?

    Is it really your product he is selling, or is there a chance you're not the source?

    Assuming you have your bases covered, it could be a simple letter you send:
    Before I sic my attorney on you .... and we both have to spend a lot of money ... forever ruining your reputation ... letting you explain to your family and friends ... I'm sure we can quietly work out a resolution of your theft ... and fraud ... and harm to my business from the claim you're the only one selling this ... I have enclosed a confidential settlement agreement .... you will pay me the $xx,xxx you say you already paid me ... plus royalties from your sales of .... I look forward to receiving your response no later than 5 pm on .....
    Of course, you probably may not have a real claim for $xx,xxx - that's just irritating. But there is a potential problem if he took your info and repackaged it as his info, at is claiming he is the only one selling it so by implication there is no need for anyone to buy your product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
      Brian I did not see you give a "thank you" to this post (see quote).... so I wonder if you read it. The reason I ask is that no one else even quoted it.

      Kindsvater is a Lawyer and from the little that I have read a pretty good one as far as the online world is concerned.

      Just thought he showed some interest so maybe PM him.

      About some of those ridiculous comments about you raising the price ...NO!

      Good night I will have to catch re-runs of this Drama in the morning.

      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Do you have a copy of the webinar?

      Do you have a copy of his product?

      Is it really your product he is selling, or is there a chance you're not the source?

      Assuming you have your bases covered, it could be a simple letter you send:
      Before I sic my attorney on you .... and we both have to spend a lot of money ... forever ruining your reputation ... letting you explain to your family and friends ... I'm sure we can quietly work out a resolution of your theft ... and fraud ... and harm to my business from the claim you're the only one selling this ... I have enclosed a confidential settlement agreement .... you will pay me the ,xxx you say you already paid me ... plus royalties from your sales of .... I look forward to receiving your response no later than 5 pm on .....
      Of course, you probably may not have a real claim for ,xxx - that's just irritating. But there is a potential problem if he took your info and repackaged it as his info, at is claiming he is the only one selling it so by implication there is no need for anyone to buy your product.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by nashelver View Post


        About some of those ridiculous comments about you raising the price ...NO!
        Yes...seizing a golden opportunity to increase profits is ridiculous! :p
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        • Profile picture of the author bettybakebake
          thanks to NaShelver for the timely kick in the pants about the post that asked such informative questions.

          I had not looked in the signature line, I did notice that it was an intelligent post that asked appropriate pointed questions to the thread creator.

          But I didn't look nor did I click the sig. If I had I would have seen all my questions were answered....What to do and what is protected and how to protect your property is right there for the asking....yes it costs a bit of money....but it is worth every penny.

          Chock full of advice, information, and forms. Run over to kindsvater and grab you a copy.

          ...now if i could just find the spell check for this text box...

          m
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  • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    In a recent webinar, two well known "gurus" went on about a "new method" that "isn't being taught anywhere". Guru A introduced Guru B, who went on to claim that this method was recently taught to him by an expert whom he paid tens of thousands of dollars for his lessons. He even had a neat little slide up that said he paid ",XXX" for the lessons.

    Well, the truth is that I am the guy that he bought the lessons from, but I certainly did not get the tens of thousands of dollars that he is claiming to have paid me. In fact, he bought my ebook right here on the warrior forum and joined my support forum.

    A month later, my ebook evolved into a membership site. Guru B joined.

    The tens of thousands of dollars that he claimed to have paid this expert... $29 for my eBook and $19 a month for a subscription to my membership site.

    He is selling the course that "only he teaches" for $497. I found out about it when a member of the site posted about it in my forum.

    I am curious to know what your reaction and response, if any, would be if you were me.

    First and foremost, this shows a complete lack of integrity on the Guru's part.

    Personally, once a person crosses that line with me, they can never again enter into my circle of trust. That circle is reserved only for men and women who believe in and live by the code of honor and the code of ethics.

    Duly note; this is becoming a common practice in IM.

    Sean Donahoe released a software application and someone came right behind him and released the same product (apparently duped it) even used the same name... only they charged more.

    About three months ago I was in the Clickbank marketplace and noticed at least four vendors had the exact same niche finding tool. The only difference were the names and price points. Essentially, they were all clones from what I found.

    Hmmmm, is someone selling an ebook that teaches this underhanded tactic and is passing it off as a form of ethical IM?

    If it were me, I'd talk to my attorney to see if there are any legal remedies.

    And if there are, (without mentioning said remedies at the moment) I'd talk to the guru and see if he would be amenable to cease and desist from marketing the method you taught him. Possibly arrange some type of compensation package, etc. But honestly, that's a long shot if you didn't CYA legally.

    If there are no legal remedies, what can you do? Not much!

    Lastly, and this goes to all vendors and product creators who produce value based products...

    Get an IP attorney and make sure your product is classified as proprietary and set the language in place so that NO ONE is has any legal right to disseminate, dissemble, reverse engineer or otherwise use your product, method or technique without your express written consent.

    Giles, the Crew Chief
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

      First and foremost, this shows a complete lack of integrity on the Guru's part.
      How's this for integrity... I am transcribing the video right now. His personal story is the exact same personal story that I have been using on my websites and right here on WF for the past several months.
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      • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
        Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

        How's this for integrity... I am transcribing the video right now. His personal story is the exact same personal story that I have been using on my websites and right here on WF for the past several months.
        Brian, I would say [unbelievable] but when you've been in this business for a while, you learn that you must CYA Cover Your Anatomy.

        I don't want to his name at the moment because I'd probably escalate to DEFCON 1.

        This is no different than those arse wholes who gleefully pirate products on the BHW.

        Giles, the Crew Chief
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Brian,

          The only thing you can prove is that he bought your product and that your system was being taught before he released his own. That's assuming there's not something to his approach that significantly alters the technique.

          For all any of us knows, he did pay someone else that money, and then went looking for more info and found your offer. How likely that is, I'll let you figure for yourself. But it's possible, and you can't claim to be certain either way.

          Or maybe it was part of a coaching program he did pay that much for. That's not as far-fetched, but that brings problems, too. First, that would make the claim that no-one else is teaching it provably inaccurate. (Unless he said "publicly.") Second, it implies that the info in question is the only thing he was looking for or found valuable from the program.

          Things like that are why we don't like folks trying to handle private beefs in the forum. Now, using his price as a comparison in your marketing might work, assuming you're sure the systems are that close in nature. If they are, his customers can verify it, and probably would.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    This is from the transcript of the webinar. Guru A is pretty well known. Most of you know exactly who he is.

    Guru A: "I told (name deleted) you need to sell this for more money, because realistically when is it that you ever have a system that's like complete from A to Z, that's new, that's not ya know already being done by everyone and their dog and kind of saturated. ... When you have something like that you don't give it away. Not because you're cheap or you're a ******* or you don't want other people to make money but just because you gotta kind of build a mote around your own business and you have to protect your own business and you have to protect the customers that own the same system as you by making this exclusive. This is
    really exclusive."

    How ironic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Brian,
      How ironic.
      It is entirely possible Guru A had no idea it's being sold elsewhere, and it's likely they believe what they said. There's no way to prove or disprove the second, and only a few ways to prove or disprove the first.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
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      • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
        Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting View Post

        Take it from me guys, you don't want to call anyone out on this forum by personal name.

        Mark Andrews...
        Since you quoted me I will respond. I probably wasn't clear but I didn't mean call him out on this forum. I just mean that if it was me I would contact him or do something so he knew he was caught and that I didn't appreciate it. Thanks for the reminder though. I appreciate how many members here try to keep things civil and respectful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    Hi Brian, I would:

    (a) Take a 'marketing leaf' out of this 'guru's' book i.e. how to better position and promote your product (given that the 'guru' you speak of has managed to do so better than you);

    (b) Turn the situation around to your advantage as some of the other posters have suggested. Incorporate your experience into your promotional material - it's a great story. Just be sure to stick to the facts (unlike the guru).

    (c) Don't do business with this guru in the future. He may not have directly or substantially harmed you in this case, but you just can't trust someone who exhibits such flagrant dishonesty and lack of respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Let's stop the monicker "guru" for a start! It's ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    This is all great stuff, everybody. I will say again that I will not be "outing" anybody on this forum. I have the paypal receipts and forum logs that show that he was in fact my student for months. What will most likely happen is that you will see this story in my future marketing material.
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Someone pass the popcorn. I too like a good thriller. Can't wait for the next installment of "As the Warrior Forum Turns."

      Brian,

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I have the paypal receipts and forum logs that show that he was in fact my student for months. What will most likely happen is that you will see this story in my future marketing material.
      You mentioned that the gentleman in question first had no problem with you mentioning him in your marketing, but then he changed his mind.

      If you decide to use this story in your marketing, talk to an attorney first. Have your attorney comb through your TOS (and local laws). Because if your TOS says you will not reveal customer's details, you may be violating your own TOS just by mentioning who's purchased your course.

      (Generally, it's not a good idea to reveal who your customers are, even if this isn't specifically mentioned in your TOS.)

      Cheers,
      Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author AffiliateMax
    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    In a recent webinar, two well known "gurus" went on about a "new method" that "isn't being taught anywhere". Guru A introduced Guru B, who went on to claim that this method was recently taught to him by an expert whom he paid tens of thousands of dollars for his lessons.
    Wow, that's an eye-opener. Just listened to a replay of that webinar today after someone sent me link to it (I didn't buy the product!). They claimed to have around 900 people on the call and claimed to have sold almost 100 copies during the webinar which I was very sceptical of given the $500 price tag. Anyway I also think they should definitely be named and shamed but I realise Warrior Forum policy disagrees with that. You can definitely take advantage of it in your marketing though because even without naming anyone you can tell the story.

    P.S Just ordered your WSO, glad I am getting the material from the original source.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Firstly make sure you have your facts straight: how much of what you have said has been assumed? Is it possible that the eBook and membership is not what is being referred to?

    If you are certain that you are right about this, I don't expect you would get a reply from the person in question were you to ask. So any action would probably need to consist solely of your own response. The reaction I personally like is the one (above) that suggests you make use of the fact in your own marketing.

    Cheers

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Guru B just called me. I will share how it goes when I get off the phone....
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I sent an email to Guru B that pointed out some interesting things that he said in his webinar presentation. I also pointed out the similarities of his pitch and my sales pages. His speech was almost a complete paraphrase of my marketing material, right down to quotes like this...

    Guru B: "I have cracked the code to building Google News Sites fast and being accepted into Google".

    My Sales Pages and WSO:
    "I have now cracked the code to getting my sites approved by Google News."

    He even had a neat little slide that had the quote on it.

    I also pointed out that he said that he was the only one that was teaching this, despite being enrolled in my online course and having bought my original WSO on the topic months ago.

    During the call, I told him that I was flattered to be such a big influence on him. Guru B, said that he was a student of mine , but I was not the mystery man that he paid tens of thousands of dollars to. That's where a major flaw comes in. If I am not the mystery man and he was my student, then how could he tell the webinar audience of 1,000 that the mystery man was the only person on the planet teaching this?

    He then used an analogy stating that if he put out a course on AdSense and then John Reese put out a course on AdSense that it would be the same thing.

    I responded that if John Reese bought your course and then told a thousand people that he was the only person in the world teaching it and used your marketing material in that presentation, then it would be sort of similar, but still not the same.

    I informed him that I was not going to say anything negative about him, but I would be using the fact that you are my student in my marketing material. He said that would be fine, but then later backtracked.

    The funniest part about the call was when he said that if I quoted him from any part of the webinar that he would file a DMCA complaint against me. Clearly, I need to teach him what the DMCA is and what it does and does not cover. I will create another course just for him on that.

    To sum it up, he was as smug as he could be and denied saying most of the things that he said in the webinar, despite the fact that I had the webinar transcribed and read parts of it word for word back to him.

    By the way, he asked me to send him a copy of the transcript. I told him I would if he sent me a copy of his course. He told me to buy it and ask for a refund.

    This post is not a rant and not me whining. I am posting this because I want you to know what kind of people some of these "gurus" are.
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    After listening to the tape of the phone conversation (yes he knew it was being recorded), I heard him say, "the mystery man is one of the most effective things in marketing". That may be true, but it is quite funny that I am now a mystery man.

    He maintains that the mystery man came into his life long before he took my courses. In his webinar, he said that after paying this mystery man $XX,XXX, he had his site in Google News within two weeks. I asked him what was the name of that site and what was the date that it was approved by Google. ... No answer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      He maintains that the mystery man came into his life long before he took my courses. In his webinar, he said that after paying this mystery man ,XXX, he had his site in Google News within two weeks. I asked him what was the name of that site and what was the date that it was approved by Google. ... No answer.
      I don't know why, but it makes me all giggly inside when one of these GURUS gets soooooooo busted.

      You are handling this like a pro E BR. Carry on.
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    • Profile picture of the author bay37
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      After listening to the tape of the phone conversation (yes he knew it was being recorded), I heard him say, "the mystery man is one of the most effective things in marketing". That may be true, but it is quite funny that I am now a mystery man.

      He maintains that the mystery man came into his life long before he took my courses. In his webinar, he said that after paying this mystery man ,XXX, he had his site in Google News within two weeks. I asked him what was the name of that site and what was the date that it was approved by Google. ... No answer.
      Get in touch with certain "people" and expose him big time. Make sure you do it in such a way that you cannot be sued for slander. It is possible. And it's highly effective. This is a clever marketers dream.

      I knwo for sure that there are people just waiting to sink their teeth into such things, and they have tens of thousands of readers.

      **** the gurus and their "secrets". Use it to your advantage as best as you can - don't delay too much though, people are quick to forget things.

      Just consult a lawyer and carefully analyse all of his course material before you do anything. Do it quick, he's probably working on changing it all up right now.
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      • Profile picture of the author steve995
        Brian,

        I'd be tempted to thank these jokers.

        They have just enabled you to include a note with all your future products about the great value you provide when compared to 'many so-called gurus'.

        After all, you charged less than $30 for the book, less than $20 for the membership and yet their claims suggest that yours was in fact a $500 product. And yet you literally gave it away to make sure that your customers got top notch value...

        That's got to be a winning argument if ever there was one!

        Go after them but do it positively,

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MassiveMarketer
    Maybe it's time you market your product better than he did. If he learnt it from you, then yo could be just as good or even better.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Well this is certainly quite the twist on the story.

    Give em hell Brian.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
    I'm shocked Brian, I really don't know what to say. I guess you should check what date the domain he is using to sell this was registered - is the time before or after your course?
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Steve Peters Benn View Post

      I'm shocked Brian, I really don't know what to say. I guess you should check what date the domain he is using to sell this was registered - is the time before or after your course?
      He registered the domain three weeks ago. It says 'coming soon' on it with a picture of the product.
      Signature

      Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Raise the price of your ebook to $97 and your membership to $47. Then promote targeting his product name, keywords, etc. Set up affiliate mailings (hate the term JV for that), etc. as well.

      Fight fire with fire. You may or may not be able to hurt his sales much, but his actions have the potential to drastically increase your sales if you play your cards right.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Wow,

        I finally read the whole thread and it looks like it's just about done now.

        At least I have a new chilli recipe.

        For what it's worth - I've had a similar thing happen to me. A 'guru' asked me to create something his list was asking for but he didn't have - so I created it, he then ripped it off and sold them his version, complete with the case study of a friend I had included.

        But far worse stuff goes on. I had someone (who was working for a 'guru') recently tell me how they'd hired actors from Elance to play the part of successful super affiliates for their launch videos.

        It's crazy what some people will do to get the cash from struggling IMers.

        Fortunately you don't need any of that stuff anyway - because as in this case, the same information is available in this forum.

        There are several groups of buyers for the same type of information and if someone can repackage your information and sell it for 10x the price there's a lesson there about the budget of your audience, albeit they might be having to blatently lie to them in order to get that price.
        Signature

        nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Raise the price of your ebook to $97 and your membership to $47. Then promote targeting his product name, keywords, etc. Set up affiliate mailings (hate the term JV for that), etc. as well.

        Fight fire with fire. You may or may not be able to hurt his sales much, but his actions have the potential to drastically increase your sales if you play your cards right.

        Lance, on the part about playing off of the Guru to increase Brian's sales, I concur and Kay put it best...

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If othing else you may have some good sales copy there. "one of my members has been so successful he's now selling his expertise for $497 - but you can get the same thing here for ..."kay
        Now, that's called Warrior thinking!

        I'd even amp things up Off Page SEO wise, to make sure that everyone gets the point!

        Giles, the Crew Chief
        Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author bettybakebake
        Yes I should let this lie, but I am just so dang new and so dang interested in knowing why your intellectual property is not protected in some way? and if not why not? and how to protect it easier the next time.

        Cause what happened to you is certainly something that I see ALL the time. I am on a million, just feels like, lists and I take note of what the marketers are shilling this week. what is a really good hint is their email headline. boy it is a copy and paste world....

        The 'rewrite and make it your own' crowd is in full cry..., so this happening to you...it is lucky that you found out about it

        I read somewhere that including a software program is what can super protect your intellectual property. And with what I am seeing out here I think that must have some basis in fact. Many of the biggest names are including small customizable software programs in their products, I think self protection of their products could possibly have something to do with it.

        So anyway I did not see much real info about what to do legally, cause the big businesses do spend lots of money protecting their information. and I think that we as producers of intellectual property have a duty to ourselves and others to work together and keep our ideas as safe as we can. Look at patent law, it is long and cumbersome for a reason. Many of us creative types have no problem coming up with new things under the sun, or at least new ways to package those 'new' things.

        So we say, oh it doesn't matter, we should just move on, be above it all, etc etc. But perhaps we should take another look at this. What ways are big companies protecting themselves. We only have our own families and maybe a few assistants to worry about so perhaps the responsibility of our intellectual property protection is not as important but I don't think that is the case. We need to focus on our long term goals, this might be a new venue for ourselves but I personally am building something that I expect my children will continue. So what comes out of my brain I really should work on protecting.

        So I think this thread is important not for the specifics but for the long term big picture questions it raises.

        Michele
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  • Profile picture of the author Gee S
    Wow, that really does suck.

    If I was you Brian, I would firstly remove him from the membership so he cannot keep ripping off your material. As far as I'm aware your always adding new things to the site so you'd want him to stay far away from that.

    Now what I would then do is concentrate on making your course 10 times better than his and continue to build your own reputation. It seems that Google News is constantly evolving and you'll be able to teach about these changes to your students. When the changes occur Guru B may not have a clue how to handle these and in usual Guru style he'll be off on to the next course to sell, leaving his "students" behind.

    In a way it's sad. All these people are going to pay $497 when they could get it for $27.

    I'd love to know who it is so I can stay far far away from them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Brian,

      Call me and give me some details later. If what you're saying is true, it needs exposing and clarifying. Just not in this forum.

      (814) 452-2855.

      Or email me. paul [-at-] talkbiz dot com


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Okay. The gentleman Brian is talking about contacted me. He assures me he's done nothing wrong.

        I have no reason to believe either side, but if one or the other is trying to use the situation to play games for positioning here, the consequences will be unpleasant, at least as they relate to this forum. As in...

        *poof*

        Who?

        At present, I have no opinion, as I haven't any info other than what's been posted, and that's not nearly enough to form an opinion.

        Your move, Brian. Keep in mind that you are not required to play.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Okay. The gentleman Brian is talking about contacted me. He assures me he's done nothing wrong.

          I have no reason to believe either side, but if one or the other is trying to use the situation to play games for positioning here, the consequences will be unpleasant, at least as they relate to this forum. As in...

          *poof*

          Who?

          At present, I have no opinion, as I haven't any info other than what's been posted, and that's not nearly enough to form an opinion.

          Your move, Brian. Keep in mind that you are not required to play.


          Paul

          Is the person is using the same stories, in the video, as Brian's websites then that should at least give us a clue as to whom is lying.

          If he is teaching the subect similar to Brian and using similar marketing, such as the stories, he may be liable for copyright infringement.

          Brian will need to talk to a lawyer once he continues pulling together his proof.

          Brian, I would purchase this product and continue grab his videos and any other marketing pieces and go talk to a lawyer.

          If his product structure is similar to the way you teach, along with all the marketing, you may have a case.
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          • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Brian, I would purchase this product...
            As of today, the website says that the product has made its allotted number of sales and is no longer available.
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            Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

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  • Profile picture of the author wcmylife
    Have you confronted him Brian? See if he can pull down his offer or split a commission with you. If he's not up for that, best to kiss him goodbye and let karma take care of him.

    I'm sure you will turn this experience into a profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    In a recent webinar, two well known "gurus" went on about a "new method" that "isn't being taught anywhere". Guru A introduced Guru B, who went on to claim that this method was recently taught to him by an expert whom he paid tens of thousands of dollars for his lessons. He even had a neat little slide up that said he paid ",XXX" for the lessons.

    Well, the truth is that I am the guy that he bought the lessons from, but I certainly did not get the tens of thousands of dollars that he is claiming to have paid me. In fact, he bought my ebook right here on the warrior forum and joined my support forum.

    A month later, my ebook evolved into a membership site. Guru B joined.

    The tens of thousands of dollars that he claimed to have paid this expert... $29 for my eBook and $19 a month for a subscription to my membership site.

    He is selling the course that "only he teaches" for $497. I found out about it when a member of the site posted about it in my forum.

    I am curious to know what your reaction and response, if any, would be if you were me.
    What the.....?

    How low can people get? I mean...really....

    Don't you have any legal legs to stand on here?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Well the game continues to get more and more interesting.

    I love a good spy thriller.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Michael,
      Well the game continues to get more and more interesting.

      I love a good spy thriller.
      I'm fast coming to believe this is a sneaky way to promote a product. I could be wrong, but I'm going to be really unpleasant if I'm not.

      I'd rather be wrong. Hunting people down is such a drag...

      BTW, I'm due for a trip to the Queen City for some chili. Up for lunch one of these days? If so, got a favorite Skyline store? (We might even be able to pry that Schenk dude out into the sunlight. )


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Michael,I'm fast coming to believe this is a sneaky way to promote a product. I could be wrong, but I'm going to be really unpleasant if I'm not.

        I'd rather be wrong. Hunting people down is such a drag...

        BTW, I'm due for a trip to the Queen City for some chili. Up for lunch one of these days? If so, got a favorite Skyline store? (We might even be able to pry that Schenk dude out into the sunlight. )


        Paul
        Comeon' down! As we say out in the sticks, "We'll treat you so many ways, you're bound to like one of em'."

        Schenk & I meet up in Tri-County because it's 1/2 way between Blue Ash and his joint in Mt. Healthy.

        I'll send you a PM with direct contact info.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        BTW, I'm due for a trip to the Queen City for some chili.
        Why would you come here for "chili"?
        Signature

        Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

        Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Dan,
          Why would you come here for "chili"?
          I used to live there. I got addicted to Skyline. Don Schenk sends me a 4-pack once in a while, to keep the heebie-jeebies away... (Don is my savior!)

          Still, I like to experience the ambience of a real Skyline restaurant occasionally, so I make the pilgrimage every summer. It's only about 700 miles round trip. Pack up some CDs and a tank of gas, and I'm good to go!

          If you're in the Cincinnatti area, we could make it a good lunch meeting!


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Dan,I used to live there. I got addicted to Skyline. Don Schenk sends me a 4-pack once in a while, to keep the heebie-jeebies away... (Don is my savior!)

            Still, I like to experience the ambience of a real Skyline restaurant occasionally, so I make the pilgrimage every summer. It's only about 700 miles round trip. Pack up some CDs and a tank of gas, and I'm good to go!

            If you're in the Cincinnatti area, we could make it a good lunch meeting!


            Paul
            Even I have never met Dan Rinnert. I think he's actually Willie Cunningham trolling as an internet marketer.
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          • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Dan,I used to live there. I got addicted to Skyline. Don Schenk sends me a 4-pack once in a while, to keep the heebie-jeebies away... (Don is my savior!)

            Still, I like to experience the ambience of a real Skyline restaurant occasionally, so I make the pilgrimage every summer. It's only about 700 miles round trip. Pack up some CDs and a tank of gas, and I'm good to go!

            If you're in the Cincinnatti area, we could make it a good lunch meeting!


            Paul
            Yummy Skyline - yummy, yummy.

            For others who may be wondering what Skyline is...

            The locals call it chili, but it is really a Greek dish which I believe is called Keema Salsa - spicy meat in tomato paste. Visitors to Cincinnati try Skyline and are surprised to find the stuff does not taste like Tex-Mex chili. It is unique.

            As I recall, it contains cumin, chili powder, nutmeg, cinnamon, and cocoa powder as part of the ingredients. At a Skyline restaurant they sell chili five different ways:
            a 1 way - in a bowl
            a 2 way - on spaghetti
            a 3 way - on spaghetti with shredded cheddar cheese
            a 4 way - add either onions or beans
            a 5 way - add onions and beans

            We mainline the stuff around here.
            Paul, I will PM my cell phone number to you.

            :-Don
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post

              a 1 way - in a bowel
              BUT NOT FOR LONG!

              Oh, come on, you all thought it.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    Oh wow, my post in this thread got deleted? I simply said internet marketers do this type of thing all the time and you can see examples of which in the WSO section. That got my post deleted?

    How pathetic.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

      Oh wow, my post in this thread got deleted? I simply said internet marketers do this type of thing all the time and you can see examples of which in the WSO section. That got my post deleted?

      How pathetic.
      Maybe I'm naive, but, is it REALLY very common for other people's work to show up as other's WSOs?

      ....maybe I'm TOO morally and ethically sound for Internet Marketing....lol

      geeze...people....create your own product, don't copy others!
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

      Oh wow, my post in this thread got deleted? I simply said internet marketers do this type of thing all the time and you can see examples of which in the WSO section.
      This forum is member-moderated. If enough people are sufficiently annoyed at your post to report it, your post disappears.

      Must be all those people in the WSO section who do this stuff all the time. :rolleyes:
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Scott,
      How pathetic.
      I deleted that post. Look back at the specific wording and you'll get a clue. Or not. I'm good with it either way.

      I'll give you this clue for free: Call most mods' decisions 'pathetic' publicly and see how long you go before you get a mandatory time-out. We don't delete stuff randomly or capriciously. We also don't keep notes on every post that goes away without hitting the poster too hard.

      Got an issue with that, it's a problem. But it's not OUR problem.

      [voice mode="Apu"]
      "Thank you. Come again."
      [/voice]


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    These so-called gurus have just succeeded in teaching some people some negative marketing strategies. They are dubious individuals that noone should do business with.

    You can name them in your membership site but you can't name them here because I think that Warrior Forum forbids name-calling or the like.

    However, I will advise you to move on because the time you would have used for litigation could be used to make more money than the 'gurus" claim to have made.

    Just my candid opinion unless you have something tangible to gain from legal tussle or judicial battle.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      "Shiloh",
      These so-called gurus have just succeeded in teaching some people some negative marketing strategies. They are dubious individuals that noone should do business with.
      You've pushed too many buttons, sir. Get rid of the BS or go somewhere else. And take "sloanjim" with you.

      I've just spoken with Brian, and his complaints are specific and reasonable. I'm not sure they're justified, but that's a different issue. Your nonsense bashing of whole classes of people, based on their having some success, is just puerile whining.




      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
    We have Skyline Chili's here in Louisville.

    I like to get a chili then pick up some BW3 wings, goto Hooters, order a beer
    and eat there. The scenery is much more pleasant at Hooters.

    Have a Great Day!
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

      We have Skyline Chili's here in Louisville.

      I like to get a chili then pick up some BW3 wings, goto Hooters, order a beer
      and eat there. The scenery is much more pleasant at Hooters.

      Have a Great Day!
      Michael

      DEAR GOD MAN!!!

      WHERE DO YOU NEED ME TO SEND THE GLADE AIR FRESHENER?!?!?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

        DEAR GOD MAN!!!

        WHERE DO YOU NEED ME TO SEND THE GLADE AIR FRESHENER?!?!?
        Those poor hooter girls.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          DEAR GOD MAN!!!

          WHERE DO YOU NEED ME TO SEND THE GLADE AIR FRESHENER?!?!?
          I was Navy trained so it doesn't effect me that way.
          Um, well, not right away anyway... Oh, and Glade won't cut it. I use Febreze.

          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          Those poor hooter girls.
          Hey, It's more like poor Michael. I'm a good tipper.

          Have a Great Day!
          Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I want to thank everybody for the suggestions and chili recipes that this thread has produced.

    My intention was not to cause a soap opera of he said she said, although I can see how some may see it that way. I am simply upset by the fact that somebody could tell a thousand people that they are "revealing a new method" when they know for a fact that the method has already been revealed.

    My Guru friend has told me that it is just a simple coincidence that his story, sales pitch, and product are all so similar to my course that he is enrolled in. Of course, I do not accept that, but it is what it is.

    Let's let this thread die out. I received a lot of good advice and that's all that I could ask for. Thanks again.
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

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  • Profile picture of the author nettech
    If he is a renowned Guru then it would be more beneficial for you to put his name on your marketing collateral, after all he is using yours isn't he? Or at least he is using your system.

    There's no point in stooping low to his level and in fact I'd be quite proud, at least you know that so many people will be using a system that works! At least you can sleep at night knowing you haven't ripped anyone else off or tried to scam someone; that for me is VERY important, peace of mind.

    I think, the best thing to do IS mention his name on your marketing material and use that to escalate your product offering to a new high.

    All the best.

    Zaheer
    Signature

    Thanks
    Zaheer

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