I think I would start promoting my system as the one that taught Guru B his $XX,XXX secret and how they can get it for a fraction of the price that Guru B is charging


JMHO of course

I'd start raising your prices

Don't let it eat at you. Keep doing what you need to do to make money. Sometimes it is not worth the time lost to fight with these types of people. By the time you are done with these two clowns four more will get started doing the same thing.

Would you mind shooting me a PM with a link to the site or some other info? I'm having a similar "problem" at the moment...not really a problem I guess...more of a disagreement with a "guru"

Like TMG Said,

I would invoice them. If not, call them out, even here in this thread, so they have to respond, and explain to everyone what they've done.

It's not fair. It's almost like ripping you off.

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Once there was this company called Xerox that had this incredible technology sitting on a shelf at their Palo Alto Research Center called a "mouse" (well, and technically a Graphical User Interface too).

One day, a guy named Steve Jobs took a tour of the PARC research facility and realized that he could market this technology better than Xerox.

So he did.

Jeremy, he said level headed, not hot headed.

Welcome to the real world. Many so-called "gurus" lie when they promote their products. There's a big difference between puffery and complete lies, and this time around you're the victim. Think about this: do you suppose you're the only one? You're smart enough to know better.

Unfortunate and, when you think about it, pretty pathetic.

There's a reason Allen had the forum configured to substitute with the word "Goober."

Do you have a copy of the webinar?

Do you have a copy of his product?

Is it really your product he is selling, or is there a chance you're not the source?

Assuming you have your bases covered, it could be a simple letter you send:

Before I sic my attorney on you .... and we both have to spend a lot of money ... forever ruining your reputation ... letting you explain to your family and friends ... I'm sure we can quietly work out a resolution of your theft ... and fraud ... and harm to my business from the claim you're the only one selling this ... I have enclosed a confidential settlement agreement .... you will pay me the $xx,xxx you say you already paid me ... plus royalties from your sales of .... I look forward to receiving your response no later than 5 pm on .....

Of course, you probably may not have a real claim for $xx,xxx - that's just irritating. But there is a potential problem if he took your info and repackaged it as his info, at is claiming he is the only one selling it so by implication there is no need for anyone to buy your product.

First and foremost, this shows a complete lack of integrity on the Guru's part.

Personally, once a person crosses that line with me, they can never again enter into my circle of trust. That circle is reserved only for men and women who believe in and live by the code of honor and the code of ethics.

Duly note; this is becoming a common practice in IM.

Sean Donahoe released a software application and someone came right behind him and released the same product (apparently duped it) even used the same name... only they charged more.

About three months ago I was in the Clickbank marketplace and noticed at least four vendors had the exact same niche finding tool. The only difference were the names and price points. Essentially, they were all clones from what I found.

Hmmmm, is someone selling an ebook that teaches this underhanded tactic and is passing it off as a form of ethical IM?

If it were me, I'd talk to my attorney to see if there are any legal remedies.

And if there are, (without mentioning said remedies at the moment) I'd talk to the guru and see if he would be amenable to cease and desist from marketing the method you taught him. Possibly arrange some type of compensation package, etc. But honestly, that's a long shot if you didn't CYA legally.

If there are no legal remedies, what can you do? Not much!

Lastly, and this goes to all vendors and product creators who produce value based products...

Get an IP attorney and make sure your product is classified as proprietary and set the language in place so that NO ONE is has any legal right to disseminate, dissemble, reverse engineer or otherwise use your product, method or technique without your express written consent.

Giles, the Crew Chief

This is from the transcript of the webinar. Guru A is pretty well known. Most of you know exactly who he is.

Guru A: "I told (name deleted) you need to sell this for more money, because realistically when is it that you ever have a system that's like complete from A to Z, that's new, that's not ya know already being done by everyone and their dog and kind of saturated. ... When you have something like that you don't give it away. Not because you're cheap or you're a ******* or you don't want other people to make money but just because you gotta kind of build a mote around your own business and you have to protect your own business and you have to protect the customers that own the same system as you by making this exclusive. This is
really exclusive."

How ironic.

Hi Brian, I would:

(a) Take a 'marketing leaf' out of this 'guru's' book i.e. how to better position and promote your product (given that the 'guru' you speak of has managed to do so better than you);

(b) Turn the situation around to your advantage as some of the other posters have suggested. Incorporate your experience into your promotional material - it's a great story. Just be sure to stick to the facts (unlike the guru).

(c) Don't do business with this guru in the future. He may not have directly or substantially harmed you in this case, but you just can't trust someone who exhibits such flagrant dishonesty and lack of respect.

Let's stop the monicker "guru" for a start! It's ridiculous.

This is all great stuff, everybody. I will say again that I will not be "outing" anybody on this forum. I have the paypal receipts and forum logs that show that he was in fact my student for months. What will most likely happen is that you will see this story in my future marketing material.

Wow, that's an eye-opener. Just listened to a replay of that webinar today after someone sent me link to it (I didn't buy the product!). They claimed to have around 900 people on the call and claimed to have sold almost 100 copies during the webinar which I was very sceptical of given the $500 price tag. Anyway I also think they should definitely be named and shamed but I realise Warrior Forum policy disagrees with that. You can definitely take advantage of it in your marketing though because even without naming anyone you can tell the story.

P.S Just ordered your WSO, glad I am getting the material from the original source.

Firstly make sure you have your facts straight: how much of what you have said has been assumed? Is it possible that the eBook and membership is not what is being referred to?

If you are certain that you are right about this, I don't expect you would get a reply from the person in question were you to ask. So any action would probably need to consist solely of your own response. The reaction I personally like is the one (above) that suggests you make use of the fact in your own marketing.

Cheers

Will

Guru B just called me. I will share how it goes when I get off the phone....

I sent an email to Guru B that pointed out some interesting things that he said in his webinar presentation. I also pointed out the similarities of his pitch and my sales pages. His speech was almost a complete paraphrase of my marketing material, right down to quotes like this...

Guru B: "I have cracked the code to building Google News Sites fast and being accepted into Google".

My Sales Pages and WSO: "I have now cracked the code to getting my sites approved by Google News."

He even had a neat little slide that had the quote on it.

I also pointed out that he said that he was the only one that was teaching this, despite being enrolled in my online course and having bought my original WSO on the topic months ago.

During the call, I told him that I was flattered to be such a big influence on him. Guru B, said that he was a student of mine , but I was not the mystery man that he paid tens of thousands of dollars to. That's where a major flaw comes in. If I am not the mystery man and he was my student, then how could he tell the webinar audience of 1,000 that the mystery man was the only person on the planet teaching this?

He then used an analogy stating that if he put out a course on AdSense and then John Reese put out a course on AdSense that it would be the same thing.

I responded that if John Reese bought your course and then told a thousand people that he was the only person in the world teaching it and used your marketing material in that presentation, then it would be sort of similar, but still not the same.

I informed him that I was not going to say anything negative about him, but I would be using the fact that you are my student in my marketing material. He said that would be fine, but then later backtracked.

The funniest part about the call was when he said that if I quoted him from any part of the webinar that he would file a DMCA complaint against me. Clearly, I need to teach him what the DMCA is and what it does and does not cover. I will create another course just for him on that.

To sum it up, he was as smug as he could be and denied saying most of the things that he said in the webinar, despite the fact that I had the webinar transcribed and read parts of it word for word back to him.

By the way, he asked me to send him a copy of the transcript. I told him I would if he sent me a copy of his course. He told me to buy it and ask for a refund.

This post is not a rant and not me whining. I am posting this because I want you to know what kind of people some of these "gurus" are.

After listening to the tape of the phone conversation (yes he knew it was being recorded), I heard him say, "the mystery man is one of the most effective things in marketing". That may be true, but it is quite funny that I am now a mystery man.

He maintains that the mystery man came into his life long before he took my courses. In his webinar, he said that after paying this mystery man $XX,XXX, he had his site in Google News within two weeks. I asked him what was the name of that site and what was the date that it was approved by Google. ... No answer.

Maybe it's time you market your product better than he did. If he learnt it from you, then yo could be just as good or even better.

Well this is certainly quite the twist on the story.

Give em hell Brian.

I'm shocked Brian, I really don't know what to say. I guess you should check what date the domain he is using to sell this was registered - is the time before or after your course?

Doesn't the FTC 'love' these kind of people? *hint*

-Dave

Wow, that really does suck.

If I was you Brian, I would firstly remove him from the membership so he cannot keep ripping off your material. As far as I'm aware your always adding new things to the site so you'd want him to stay far away from that.

Now what I would then do is concentrate on making your course 10 times better than his and continue to build your own reputation. It seems that Google News is constantly evolving and you'll be able to teach about these changes to your students. When the changes occur Guru B may not have a clue how to handle these and in usual Guru style he'll be off on to the next course to sell, leaving his "students" behind.

In a way it's sad. All these people are going to pay $497 when they could get it for $27.

I'd love to know who it is so I can stay far far away from them.

Have you confronted him Brian? See if he can pull down his offer or split a commission with you. If he's not up for that, best to kiss him goodbye and let karma take care of him.

I'm sure you will turn this experience into a profit.

What the.....?

How low can people get? I mean...really....

Don't you have any legal legs to stand on here?

Well the game continues to get more and more interesting.

I love a good spy thriller.

Oh wow, my post in this thread got deleted? I simply said internet marketers do this type of thing all the time and you can see examples of which in the WSO section. That got my post deleted?

How pathetic.

These so-called gurus have just succeeded in teaching some people some negative marketing strategies. They are dubious individuals that noone should do business with.

You can name them in your membership site but you can't name them here because I think that Warrior Forum forbids name-calling or the like.

However, I will advise you to move on because the time you would have used for litigation could be used to make more money than the 'gurus" claim to have made.

Just my candid opinion unless you have something tangible to gain from legal tussle or judicial battle.

We have Skyline Chili's here in Louisville.

I like to get a chili then pick up some BW3 wings, goto Hooters, order a beer
and eat there. The scenery is much more pleasant at Hooters.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

I want to thank everybody for the suggestions and chili recipes that this thread has produced.

My intention was not to cause a soap opera of he said she said, although I can see how some may see it that way. I am simply upset by the fact that somebody could tell a thousand people that they are "revealing a new method" when they know for a fact that the method has already been revealed.

My Guru friend has told me that it is just a simple coincidence that his story, sales pitch, and product are all so similar to my course that he is enrolled in. Of course, I do not accept that, but it is what it is.

Let's let this thread die out. I received a lot of good advice and that's all that I could ask for. Thanks again.

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If he is a renowned Guru then it would be more beneficial for you to put his name on your marketing collateral, after all he is using yours isn't he? Or at least he is using your system.

There's no point in stooping low to his level and in fact I'd be quite proud, at least you know that so many people will be using a system that works! At least you can sleep at night knowing you haven't ripped anyone else off or tried to scam someone; that for me is VERY important, peace of mind.

I think, the best thing to do IS mention his name on your marketing material and use that to escalate your product offering to a new high.

All the best.

Zaheer