Wordpress to sue Thesis creators

14 years ago

Well, that's interesting.

If they follow through with this, other themes and frameworks would need to joind Thesis on the chopping block.

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TheBrainchildGroup 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ShaneRQR

Well, that's interesting.

If they follow through with this, other themes and frameworks would need to joind Thesis on the chopping block.

I totally agree. It seems as if they're all a mish mosh of each other in some way.
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Mohammad Afaq

14 years ago

Like Shane said, that's very interesting.

But I wonder if that's the case with themes, what about plugins??

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AnneRose88

14 years ago

Oh, that's some interesting news.
Especially considering that the Thesis creator has built his business on this...

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insomniacl

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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khay 14 years ago

Originally Posted by insomniacl

What exactly does Thesis do thats such a big deal to wordpress?

Have a read for yourself:
DIYthemes ? Run a Killer Website with the Thesis WordPress Theme

It's basically a framework that makes it very quick and easy to make large and complex themes and layouts.
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Abledragon

14 years ago

As far as I can see there's no basis for WordPress to sue Thesis, unless something else has taken place that's been kept under the wraps.

The GPL licence allows people who use code licenced under it to freely extend, alter or adapt the code and to give it away free or for a price.

Thesis has created an extension to the WordPress code and is giving it away for a price - no offence there.

I'd actually say that Thesis has more of a case against WordPress because of Matt Mullenweg trying to poach Thesis customers (and potential customers) with offers of free frameworks specifically targetted at Thesis users - full details on Twitter #thesiswp.

Cheers,

Martin.

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CiroColonna

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Abledragon

As far as I can see there's no basis for WordPress to sue Thesis, unless something else has taken place that's been kept under the wraps.

The GPL licence allows people who use code licenced under it to freely extend, alter or adapt the code and to give it away free or for a price.

Thesis has created an extension to the WordPress code and is giving it away for a price - no offence there.

I'd actually say that Thesis has more of a case against WordPress because of Matt Mullenweg trying to poach Thesis customers (and potential customers) with offers of free frameworks specifically targetted at Thesis users - full details on Twitter #thesiswp.

Cheers,

Martin.

Looks like the dispute is not about the fact that Thesis is sold but rather that it violates the GPL because it's not itself distributed under the GPL.

It will be very interesting to know what comes out of this.

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EvcRo

14 years ago

Steeping in the footsteps of Joomla, which did exactly this only 1 year ago.

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Daniel Deegan

14 years ago

Thesis has gone partially GPL (only parts of the thesis code) as of a few hours ago.

WordPress Theme Thesis Maker Backs Down, Adopts GPL

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khay

14 years ago

Do you think it's going to have a knock-on effect for other themes? What about plugins? Since themes ride on the WP core featureset the distintion, technically, between a plugin and a theme isn't exactly black and white.

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Fenshon

14 years ago

What will happen to us; thesis lovers?

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VegasGreg

14 years ago

I am pretty sure that is why the Revolution Themes switched to the name Studio Press a while ago and made their themes GPL. Yes, they still charge, but they charge for support, not the themes.

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theultimate1

14 years ago

I have a slightly off-topic question here... How does going GPL (partially or completely) affect Thesis' business?

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Lance K

14 years ago

So basically WP wants Thesis to adopt the GPL. Which wouldn't affect Thesis' ability to charge for their theme, but would allow for others to copy, change, improve, etc. Thesis and distribute it. Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

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InternetM39482

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

So basically WP wants Thesis to adopt the GPL. Which wouldn't affect Thesis' ability to charge for their theme, but would allow for others to copy, change, improve, etc. Thesis and distribute it. Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

Yep, that's exactly what I get out of the mixergy discussion that was going on a couple days ago.

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

Just a few remarks, if I may...

There is nothing new, even if for some people this sounded like a novelty.
WP announced their stand more than a year ago:
WordPress › News Themes are GPL, too

RE: plugins - there is another post on the WP Dev Blog:
WordPress › News Canonical Plugins (Say What?)
(although no clear answer regarding whether they have to be GPL or not)

For Thesis and WP lovers - as end users none of this should affect you.

As for Thesis business... err, it none of our business

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Mary Green

14 years ago

Thesis backed down yesterday afternoon, and now has a partial GPL and is in compliance.

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xiaophil

14 years ago

For the record there are two separate issues here that deserve to be addressed distinctly.

The first is whether the Thesis theme has actually included any GPL code in the theme itself. This comment is apparently from an ex-developer of Thesis who claims that is has, which would mean the code it was included in is almost certainly caught by the GPL.

The larger and I believe much more important question is whether a theme or plugin that doesn't contain any code from Wordpress and is distributed separately should inherit the license of Wordpress.

Although the stance of the Wordpress developers is that it should, there are legal opinions that suggest it probably should not, such as this one on derivative works (and I believe the entire argument hinges on this concept).

Here is an interesting experiment: Imagine that someone wrote a new blog platform from scratch that was compatible with the current Wordpress themes and plugins. Does that suddenly make all those themes and plugins derivative works of the new platform as well? The concept is clearly absurd.

BTW IANAL

Phil

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

Originally Posted by xiaophil

Imagine that someone wrote a new blog platform from scratch that was compatible with the current Wordpress themes and plugins.

I can not. I mean I can not imagine that

It would be a fork of WP, not something done from "scratch". It would have to use the same WP API and WP hooks...

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xiaophil

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath

It would be a fork of WP, not something done from "scratch". It would have to use the same WP API and WP hooks...

Not at all Istvan. An API is not software, it's just an interface - a bunch of naming conventions really.

While the implementation of an API can be copyrighted (as it is actual code) I am pretty sure that providing an identical API (using different code) would not be infringing. It would be a completely new, but compatible software.

Have you heard of a project called WINE? It implements the Windows API. If that were infringing copyright I am sure MS would have come down on it like a ton of bricks.

Of course finding a developer both talented and insane enough to want to re-implement the Wordpress API [shudder] in PHP [shudder] is another question entirely

Phil

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niffybranco

14 years ago

Originally Posted by xiaophil

For the record there are two separate issues here that deserve to be addressed distinctly.

The first is whether the Thesis theme has actually included any GPL code in the theme itself. This comment is apparently from an ex-developer of Thesis who claims that is has, which would mean the code it was included in is almost certainly caught by the GPL.

The larger and I believe much more important question is whether a theme or plugin that doesn't contain any code from Wordpress and is distributed separately should inherit the license of Wordpress.

Although the stance of the Wordpress developers is that it should, there are legal opinions that suggest it probably should not, such as this one on derivative works (and I believe the entire argument hinges on this concept).

Here is an interesting experiment: Imagine that someone wrote a new blog platform from scratch that was compatible with the current Wordpress themes and plugins. Does that suddenly make all those themes and plugins derivative works of the new platform as well? The concept is clearly absurd.

BTW IANAL

Phil

It really does not matter if thesis implemented any wordpress code Thesis was built to work with wordpress which runs a GPL license .

If somone writes a new blog platform from scratch that is current with paid themes and plugins it doesn't make them a derivative automatically , but if the developers start peddling as extensions of the new plat form then it will have to follow the license terms laid out by that blog platform.

Thesis is sold as a wordpress theme it profits off the success achieved by wordpress, it is advertised as a wordpress theme , therefore they should comply with the spirit under which wordpress was built and that is to have a GPL license that makes the blog platform and extensions freely available to the public.

The GNU General Public License - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) read the license terms.

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Istvan Horvath 14 years ago

Originally Posted by niffybranco

But when some greedy developers start charging $60 - $80 for just one theme

I must be very "greedy"... when I used to be in that business my prices started at $1,000 for a custom theme
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- niffybranco 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath
  
  I must be very "greedy"... when I used to be in that business my prices started at $1,000 for a custom theme
  
  I do not think $1000 for a custom theme is greedy as it depends on what the customer wants , if they want a theme that only them will use then they should be willing to pay , but tell me when you develp the theme do you then go you do not have a right to share that theme with anybody ?
  
  There is a big difference between a custom theme and a theme that will be sold to hundreds or even thousands of people.
  
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  Istvan Horvath 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by niffybranco
  
  but tell me when you develp the theme do you then go you do not have a right to share that theme with anybody ?
  
  Nope, I don't go like that... Although the client, usually, doesn't want to share it because it's something unique, fitted for his needs.
  
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  niffybranco 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath
  
  Nope, I don't go like that... Although the client, usually, doesn't want to share it because it's something unique, fitted for his needs.
  
  That is what the creators of wordpress have asked that you pass on the same rights that allowed you to develop themes for their platform to anybody that purchases the themes from you.
  
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xiaophil 14 years ago

Originally Posted by niffybranco

But when some greedy developers start charging $60 - $80 for just one theme

Do you have any idea of the effort and skills it takes to produce quality software? If these 'greedy developers' were not delivering value then their customers would not buy and they would have no business.

...what makes wordpress successful is the fact that it has a GPL license.

No, WP is popular because it is easy to use and distributed freely - nothing to do with the GPL. How may people who run WP do you think care that they have the rights to alter and redistribute the code?

As an aside, it's worth remembering here that WP was not written from scratch - it was forked from another software called B2/cafelog which I believe was GPL'd, meaning that there was no option but to release WP under the GPL.

If you want to develop for wordpress respect their licence or develop for a different platform.

Agreed. The question is whether an add-on falls under the scope of that license in the first place.

Phil
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Jeff Hampton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by xiaophil

Thanks for the link and invitation to read the GPL. With respect, had you read and understood it yourself you would know that the GPL has never required software to be either given away for free or made freely available to the public.

All it really stipulates in this context is that when software is distributed (paid for or not) that the source code is also made available to the party it is distributed to, along with the same license.

Right. "Free as in speech, not necessarily free as in beer," as they say.

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AnneRose88

14 years ago

While it seemed over the past week that neither party was willing to budge on his position, Pearson has just now relented, if only enough to satisfy the legal requirements of the GPL.

“Friends and lovers: Thesis now sports a split GPL license. Huzzah for harmony!” he wrote on Twitter this afternoon. Still, he said the change “has no practical implications for 99.9% of people.”

The split GPL will allow the parts of Thesis that use WordPress code to be freely shared. All the PHP code is GPL, while CSS and JavaScript code sections remain proprietary. It’s not a complete win for FOSS, but at least it’s fair, compliant and fork-able.

WordPress Theme Thesis Maker Backs Down, Adopts GPL

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CDarklock

14 years ago

I have never understood why the GPL somehow makes it okay for me to tell someone else what he can or cannot do with code he wrote.

"You looked at my code. Now I get to tell you what you can do with yours."

It's sick and wrong and Richard Stallman needs to be drawn and quartered for this crap.

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mojojuju 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's sick and wrong and Richard Stallman needs to be drawn and quartered for this crap.

That's not nice. Now sing along with the video below and become indoctrinated - You know you want to!

YouTube - Richard Stallman - Free Software Song
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rts2271

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I have never understood why the GPL somehow makes it okay for me to tell someone else what he can or cannot do with code he wrote.

"You looked at my code. Now I get to tell you what you can do with yours."

It's sick and wrong and Richard Stallman needs to be drawn and quartered for this crap.

Stallman made a good license with gpl 2 and then had to cause a big fracas over gpl 3 and its extensive viralness. Has pissed off virtually every corporate sponsor who has tried to dump serious money into development.

Now Wordpress has opened a nasty can of worms for themselves when they have to issue a stance on plugins. Imagine wishlist or many other paid plugins who have to either make there own api and connector so it stands alone to be able to charge or release their code. See the sad fact is the support model SUCKS when it comes to software. Unless your Microsoft.

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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by rts2271

Stallman made a good license with gpl 2

I wouldn't entirely agree, but GPL3 is definitely horrific. GPL2 was at least semi-reasonable.

The real pisser for me is that I'm part of that generation; I believed in freely sharing code, and giving back to the community. But somewhere along the line, it all went wrong.

I do not understand why the BSD and MIT licences were not good enough. They were clean, simple, a child could understand them. And with the removal of the attribution clause from the BSD licence, it's damn near perfect.

I just don't see any reason GPL code is better off being under GPL instead of BSD or MIT. Certainly, the prospective contributor is worse off, and therefore we lose a lot of very good and very smart contributors simply because they want to be compensated for writing code, not providing tech support.

It kind of seems like the open source community is a bunch of IT guys crapping all over the programmers and telling them it's manna from heaven.
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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

Open source is an inherently socialist concept.

It runs counter to the idea of intellectual property, and forces the revenue model to solely being based on direct labor hours.

This is, of course, a commodity, and will eventually find the lowest common denominator - removing profitability from any equasion.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Open source is an inherently socialist concept.

Only in the GPL sense. The MIT and BSD licences allow you to use their code however you like, and still protect your own intellectual property. Several other licences, including the Apache and PHP licensing, have similar room for commercial efforts that protect developer IP.

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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Only in the GPL sense. The MIT and BSD licences allow you to use their code however you like, and still protect your own intellectual property. Several other licences, including the Apache and PHP licensing, have similar room for commercial efforts that protect developer IP.

Agreed.

Specifically, GPL forces a race to the bottom pricewise for any related labor services. It's anti-capital.

What will be interesting is if Wordpress wins this case, what legal precedent is established for content being considered a code extension of the core software? What does that do to the copyright to anything that is now subject to the same GPL interpretation?

All these people who gush over Wordpress are going to be really upset when their assumed copyright to their creative work is nullified, and anyone can just duplicate any part of their entire body of published works under the expanded definition of GPL.

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Wakunahum

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Agreed.

Specifically, GPL forces a race to the bottom pricewise for any related labor services. It's anti-capital.

The point of the GPL is to share and not to make money. That's it's purpose.

I don't think it's totally anti-capital. If you want to start a graphics design business for example, you have to raise the capital to buy software. With the GPL there is software that you can get started with without capital. This lets those with less have a platform to start earning where otherwise it would have never happened or been greatly delayed with paid software.

It depends on how you look at it.

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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wakunahum

The point of the GPL is to share and not to make money. That's it's purpose.

I don't think it's totally anti-capital. If you want to start a graphics design business for example, you have to raise the capital to buy software. With the GPL there is software that you can get started with without capital. This lets those with less have a platform to start earning where otherwise it would have never happened or been greatly delayed with paid software.

It depends on how you look at it.

Selling your labor isn't a business, it's a job. Yeah, your employer might be a little different, but it's still a job. Why? Because if you stop working, you don't get paid.

A business is an asset that creates profits whether the shareholders work in the business or not. Labor works in the business as a resource, paid expressly for their labor efforts in a value exchange that trades time for money.

That's based on the philosophies set forth by people like Adam Smith, so that's sort of how I look at it.

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Wakunahum

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Selling your labor isn't a business, it's a job. Yeah, your employer might be a little different, but it's still a job. Why? Because if you stop working, you don't get paid.

A business is an asset that creates profits whether the shareholders work in the business or not. Labor works in the business as a resource, paid expressly for their labor efforts in a value exchange that trades time for money.

That's based on the philosophies set forth by people like Adam Smith, so that's sort of how I look at it.

I think you are taking my example out of context.

The code IS the capital.

One can take platforms like Linux, Open Office, etc. and use them as tools to run a business. They can hire employees to do the work.

These tools normally require capital to own. The GPL allows people to get these tools for FREE and run a business with them thus taking the amount of capital needed to have a business even lower.

Thus isn't NOT anti-capitalistic in nature because by having the code for FREE as you have one less hurdle that you have to jump through to start a business.

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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wakunahum

The GPL allows people to get these tools for FREE

...off the backs of an army of programmers who didn't get paid.

See the problem?
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- Wakunahum 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by CDarklock
  
  ...off the backs of an army of programmers who didn't get paid.
  
  See the problem?
  
  The programmers know what the GPL says.
  
  This means that they should focus their efforts on platforms that do not lock them into a system that is not designed to pay them.
  
  There is no problem.
  
  This would be like saying that volunteer work without pay is a HUGE problem and clearly it is not. It's the context under which the work is being done.
  
  If the context is free software without pay, it's fine.
  
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  CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Wakunahum
  
  The programmers know what the GPL says.
  
  Actually, most programmers DON'T know what it says, which is why this Thesis dispute is happening in the first place.
  
  It basically says if you have learned anything from GPL code that you use in your work, all your work is required to go under the GPL whether you like it or not.
  
  And if you look back over the last thirty years, GPL proponents really like to let people go very, very far indeed writing code that should be under GPL before saying "legally you must GPL your code."
  
  Which looks an awful lot like wanting people to write code that they don't know is under the GPL, so they can "steal" it later.
  
  At Microsoft, everyone is forbidden to even look at GPL code. You can lose your job for it. Because once it contaminates a project, the whole project is legally required to be GPL.
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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  xiaophil 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Exfilius
  
  Basically, you can download the theme for free from "certain places" and still use it legally.
  
  It's a split license.
  
  I'm pretty sure the CSS and JavaScript are not GPL.
  
  So that keeps things nice and simple, right? :rolleyes:
  
  Anyway, you still can't download the theme from "certain places" without infringing copyright on those parts that are not GPL.
  
  Phil
  
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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Specifically, GPL forces a race to the bottom pricewise for any related labor services. It's anti-capital.

It's worse than that. When you look at the recommended ways to make your living in open source software, they all make the software worse...

- Sell installation services: Your software must be so hard to install that the customer must be or get an engineer to do it.

- Sell documentation and training: Your software must be so hard to use and understand, nobody could ever figure it out on his own.

- Sell customisation and extensions: Your software must be so hard to modify, nobody in his right mind would even attempt it.

You can complain all you want that these things don't actually happen, but this is where the economic incentives are. And economic incentives, whether you like it or not, ALWAYS WIN over time.
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PCRoger

14 years ago

Sooo, what does that mean?

You no longer have to buy the developer version to use it on as many sites as you own?

Roger

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JeffLam

14 years ago

I'm a little confused too. So now if you are under the GPL, you can only charge for the support given to the product (in this case, the theme) rather than the actual product itself?

As this is because the GPL is for non profit purposes?

So what, Thesis is supposedly free for all now?

And if NOT, then what's the big hooha? Thesis's owner is still gonna make the monies anyways.

Pardon my ignorance.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JeffLam

I'm a little confused too. So now if you are under the GPL, you can only charge for the support given to the product (in this case, the theme) rather than the actual product itself?

You can charge for it.

You just can't stop anyone else from selling it themselves and charging for it.

Or not charging for it.

The Free Software Foundation, and its founder Richard Stallman, are very much of the opinion that it is morally wrong to withhold software from the people who want it.

That doesn't mean you can't ask them for money. It just means that if they don't want to give you that money, they shouldn't be deprived of the software. So either you or someone else should give them the software for less money.

It's a race to the bottom, where the software itself inevitably becomes a "free bonus" to some sort of service... and the software is deliberately designed to require that service, or else nobody gets paid.

If I were the Thesis people, I'd sell the graphics. There's no GPL code in the graphics. You can have the theme, sure. But you can't have all the graphics that make it look pretty. Make your own. And suss out which ones you need on your own, too.

Or buy ours. Oh, hey, look - they cost the same as we were charging for Thesis in the first place. What are the odds.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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Fraggler

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

If I were the Thesis people, I'd sell the graphics. There's no GPL code in the graphics. You can have the theme, sure. But you can't have all the graphics that make it look pretty. Make your own. And suss out which ones you need on your own, too.

Thesis has no graphics, not even a header banner.

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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

Thesis has no graphics, not even a header banner.

That could be changed.
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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Jesus Perez

14 years ago

From what I understand, Thesis was actually using (old) Wordpress code inside it's framework.

Thesis has made those few files GPL. The rest of the framework is not.

So...you can grab the free Thesis GPL 'parts', but you need to pay for the rest to actually make it work.

It's like getting a free car engine. But you still need to buy the body, seats, hood, doors, etc to assemble it into a running car.

So Thesis as a whole isn't really GPL. Only a few files are. You still gotta buy the whole thing. Otherwise you'll be taking the bus while a lonely car engine sits in your driveway.

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gearmonkey

14 years ago

I bought Thesis about a year ago. I love it as it's highly customizable. I also own Revolution/Studio Press. Studio Press is my favorite and worth buying for $60 bucks.

If coders can't charge then the quality will likely go down. I have no problem paying for WP themes and plugins as long as they make me money. Around and around we go....

Here's my Thesis customized: XtremeMusic – Rock Music News - Love it!

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ATHell 14 years ago

Originally Posted by gearmonkey

Here's my Thesis customized: XtremeMusic - Rock Music News - Love it!

Nice blog! I love rock.
Just a hint: it's too wide for my laptop so I have to scroll right to see al. 980px is so far the best maximum width to use as there are many width just only a 1024 px screen width. See the global stats of w3counter to proof.
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GideonGeorge

14 years ago

May be thesis is making more money than wordpress right now

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Exfilius 14 years ago

From StudioPress:

"The CSS, XHTML PHP, design and any other elements of the StudioPress themes are released under the GPL license and are in total compliance to standards set forth by the authors of that license as well as with WordPress. Theme support will only be given to those who purchase a theme package."

Basically, you can download the theme for free from "certain places" and still use it legally.
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Sania

14 years ago

Wordpress Noice Themes: APk

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Kezz

14 years ago

It seems to me the inevitable result of this series of events will be a restructuring of the way commercial WP themes work.

I noticed that the distinction Matt Mullenweg outlined was: "Show me WordPress running without Thesis. Then show me Thesis running without WordPress"

So he says that because Thesis depends on WordPress to be useful it therefore should fall under GPL.

Okay, fine then.

So we theme developers, who commit the terrible crime of wanting to be paid for our work and earn a decent living, will have to take a different approach.

(By the way it takes years upon years upon years to develop the coding and design skills required to create a top level theme.)

So that we're not expected to work free of charge, we will create website templates that WILL stand alone.

And then we create a bridge that allows these stand alone website templates to be "WordPress compatible".

For example, create a WP theme framework that in itself falls under GPL. This alone can be a bare bones butt ugly theme.

Then within that framework create functionality that can call in the actual template itself, ie. graphics, css, and PHP from a completely separate location.

Your own layout, design and code is yours to do with what you please. If you don't fancy giving it away and letting others profit from it while you get nothing, you don't have to.

If your templates work on their own they can't be touched. And there's then no legal issue in making them "WordPress compatible" via your GPL middle layer.

Heck, while we're at it we might as well make them compatible with any other service we can think of.

It WordPress wants everyone to share the love then as far as I see that means they don't want all that attention to be solely focused on their platform.

People need to be paid for their work so somehow they'll find a way. And I have a feeling that in the end this won't have a net positive impact on WordPress.

Time will tell.

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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kezz

I noticed that the distinction Matt Mullenweg outlined was: "Show me WordPress running without Thesis. Then show me Thesis running without WordPress"

I say they should take it to court. I'd love to see an IP judge get hold of the GPL. It's basically a coin flip on whether the viral component of the license would ever stand up in court, anyway.
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xiaophil 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kezz

I noticed that the distinction Matt Mullenweg outlined was: "Show me WordPress running without Thesis. Then show me Thesis running without WordPress"

Yeah, a ludicrous argument. Show me a Linux application that runs without Linux. Oh, none of them do? So they all must adopt the Linux license then? Bollocks.

I have a feeling that in the end this won't have a net positive impact on WordPress.

I think so too. Talented developers are creating value and driving the platform forward, and they have the right to charge for their products and let the market decide whether it is acceptable or not.

Why is there such a huge market for premium themes and plugins in the first place? If the free ones had it covered then the market wouldn't exist at all!

Instead of stifling the economy and repelling the best talent why the hell not encourage a marketplace of high quality software products?

I just don't get it. What's the real agenda here?

As for a WP 'isolation' layer, well if this gets pushed much further I think they are just asking for something disruptive like a "wp-arms-length" plugin and theme converter.

I would be tempted myself if developing for WP wasn't like playing pick-up sticks with your butt-cheeks.

Even better - a script that converts WP themes and plugins to another platform. How's that for "sharing the love"? Anyone heard of Concrete5 or Habari ?

Cheers,

Phil
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- CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by xiaophil
  
  I just don't get it. What's the real agenda here?
  
  Richard Stallman's.
  
  It's a very nice agenda, really. The idea is this: everyone will write the best code they can. Then they will share it with everyone. If you can make it better, you'll make it better, and then you'll share it with everyone. And eventually, all software will be free.
  
  And yes, for all the "free as in speech, not free as in beer" rhetoric - Richard Stallman has ALWAYS meant free as in beer. Always.
  
  This is a really great idea, provided you are the guy who buys software and not the guy who sells it. That guy kind of takes it in the shorts.
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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OrganicSeoGuru

14 years ago

Should be interesting to watch this one playout, but all I see happening is Thesis getting a boatload of links and traffic.

Aaron wall did the same thing years ago while he was going through legal crap, it put him on the map for sure....

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rinnell garrett

14 years ago

I have heard a lot about Thesis theme and a lot of people are using it as well. What is so special about this theme?

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petermead

14 years ago

Do we really need paid wp themes? I don't know why people buy paid themes. Is there any specific advantages?

Please share.

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SirThomas 14 years ago

Originally Posted by petermead

Do we really need paid wp themes? I don't know why people buy paid themes. Is there any specific advantages?

Please share.

not being forced to display someone's link on your pages could be the first reason, I guess...
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