John Taylor is wrong ...

How about a third option with a base product, then an upsell and a downsell?

Hi Andy,

Like Eben say's the only way to find out is to test with the real subscribers. So if you are using AWEBER why dont you do a split test with 50 or 100 subscribers and see which option works best as that's the best way of getting actual feedback.

If your looking at hypothetical feedback, I would say

a. Go with option two as you want to make sure that the buyer has made up his mind to buy. Once he clicks and confirms, you can then give them the option of an upsell/upgrade with a couple of special bonuses.

b. The first option is interesting but even if you did try it, you would definitely want to compare it with the second option to test conversions. Sometimes, you don't want to give buyers a choice as it might give them second thoughts - especially when its CLOSING TIME.

I'd put my money on option #2.

Let people commit themselves by clicking the Buy Now now button before giving them choices.

In the end, real data talks.. theories walk

I say use the first option and allow them the choice.

If they choose the base product then in the next screen show them a
comparison of benefits between the two versions asking them if they're sure
they wouldn't like to upgrade to the premium version before the price
increases in the near future. (of course only do this if the price is actually
going to increase in the future)

Have a Great Day!
Michael

The way I read that, maybe I'm reading it wrong, is that you sell your base product and then the upsell is a choice between the base and premium product (even though they've already bought the base).

...Which wouldn't make any sense.

I assume you mean the second option is simply the base version on the front-end and the premium version on the back end.

I'm actually, in just a few days, about to release a niche product that I've poured way more money into than I care to share.

And when first talking with my Copywriter we went back and forth about this very subject. And when spending upwards to five figures, like John said above, it's not one of those things where you go, "Nope, damn that doesn't work. Let's re-do it."

...

Although I haven't launched on Clickbank yet, as I'm still getting some parts of the product done, I have been testing with PayPal processing payments and delivering it all.

Here's my sales process'... I'm currently testing two:

buy: front end -> buy: backend -> buy: download page
-> reject: downsell upsell at $10 off -> buy: download page
-> reject: send to front end download page

buy: front end -> buy: backend -> download page
-> reject: send to download page with brief sales message

Now surprisingly enough the second option is actually out preforming the first even though both times the consumer is presented with the exact same offer.

And with the first sales process they see the offer, no matter what. But with the second option they have to actually click a link (see pic below).

...My reasoning, and from what I personally asked two customers who bought that way, is that they have a chance to see the caliber of the front end, realize it's right for them, and then have no problem laying down more money.

Picture of brief sales message:



...

It really does come down to the offer though. If it's in the "make money online" niche, which I assume it is, then you may get the odd person who thinks the base package is TOO basic and thus ignores the offer if you have it laid out with your second option.

On the flip side with option one you may get those who think the offer is only beneficial to them if they take the more costly option... but they can't afford it.

Honestly I'd go with the second option, the more "normal" approach. If I knew your product better I may change my mind but the standard method works and in my experience is more profitable.

My backend is converting between 35-45% depending on what version of the copy I use currently.

I obviously have never used the first type of copy... but I would imagine to get the same profits the front page would have to convert really good to compete with the second option.

I know you had me both on Skype... not sure if we still do or not. But if you have any more specific questions about conversion data that you think can help you make a better decision feel free to reach out.

Cheers,

Zach

Thanks for your input Zach. To clarify -

Either way they will be making the choice before any purchase. They are choosing between two versions of the product.

In option 1 they are presented with the choice on the first page.

In option 2 they click "add to cart" on the basic version and are offered the choice between the two on the second.

For an example of this see fatloss4idiots.com and click through their sales pages until you get to the pre-purchase upsell.

Cheers,

Andy

I think it comes down to psychology vs. well-worn ideas.

I recently read Priceless: The myth of fair value by William Poundstone and picked up a WSO (http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...timonials.html) based on a few of the principals of Dan Ariely (Whom Poundstone quotes frequently)

Essentially it comes down to this...Anchoring...

One of the studies Poundstone explores goes a little like this....

If i tell you that the average summer temperature in your home town is 77 degrees.

And then I tell you that the above statement is false and ask you what the average temperature actually is.

You will almost invariably estimate a much lower average temperature because I have anchored you to an absurdly low temperature.

So how do you use anchoring in this situation? Having relative prices is the simplest way to anchor your customer and help them to judge the value of an offer.

On your sales page give them the lowball price for the lowball item.

Then present them with a more expensive offer (on the same page).

Then and here is the killer offer a 3rd product with a massive bonus and discount it to the price of the second offer (for a limited time or whatever reason you want to use)

Obviously your third offer will be the "premium" product you intended to sell in the first place and it should be priced at the "premium" price you intended to get originally.

The second item is the shill, just a moderately upgraded lowball offer, but it anchors the customer into believing that the third item is such a good value that they would be an idiot to pass it up.

Make your customers feel that there is so much value in the higher priced option that they have to buy it.

BTW it looks like CJ has paused his WSO, but if he puts it back up I highly recommend it. As well pick up Poundstones book and Predictably Irrational by Ariely

Even if that old sheep shagger chose this one, I'll have to go with this option. I'm all for choice. In fact, I've got a program in the works for autumn that will do exactly this. I'm just working on the logistics of integrating this into dual memberships sites. The way I see it, some will want option A and some will want option B. If I try to get them to buy option A before offering option B, I'll lose those who lean towards B - and vice-versa.

However, in some cases, the second plan of yours would be best. Really depends on the case.

I've found offering choices generally decreases conversions. Two possible reasons for that:

1. If someone would want the more expensive version but can't afford it at the time, they may wait. We all know what happens when people wait - most don't come back and buy later.

2. It's hard enough to convince someone to buy once, so getting them to make that decision and then forcing another decision on them is more thinking than a lot of people want to do. Rather than decide between versions, for some people the easier decision is not to buy at all.

The solution? Sell one version and once you have the money and have them on your mailing list, offer an upgrade. If they've been using and benefiting from the product, and the upgrade offers sufficient new benefit, the conversion rate should be very good.

This is my first post on the Warrior Forum after being a lurker for a couple of months. This issue invoked enough emotion to bring me out of hiding.

First off on what someone called down selling i.e. offering a better price if the prospect refuses the first offer. I am a really quick learner and when I am checking into an offer from an internet marketer always click away from the offer to see if I can get a better deal. Yep, didn't take me any time to learn that one. Do you have any way of finding out how much my type of behavior affects your bottom line?

If I do decide to bite on an offer (which is rarely) and I am presented with a second offer (an upsell) I have always left without buying. From experience I do not have much trust when it comes to IM types and the upsell makes me wonder enough to leave.

A bit of background about myself and the Warrior Forum.

I have been here for a couple of months and read many, many threads. After awhile I started noticing those individuals that were spending a lot of time providing good information (yes, sometimes to promote their WSO and frequently not).

When I finally decided on the type of internet marketing I wanted to do these are the people whose programs I purchased (if they fit my marketing plans).

I have never purchased a product from another forum and only a couple from articles I red before joining the Warrior Forum.

This forum is fantastic and if you are not a member of the War Room you should be. It is the best IM investment I have found.

A very opinionated warrior,
John

I agree with adding the third option. Sales psychology will rule out and most people will choose the middle option. There are those people who will always have to buy the premium product, that's just how they are wired. The people who wouldn't normally buy will choose the downsell or won't buy at all.

If you don't believe this process works just copy the big boys. They all do it!

I like the 2nd option because the person who is already willing to download the base version is in a very interested state of mind while the 1st option presents both products to someone who is merely 'interested'.

My guess is that you would have more sales with the 2nd option

We do know a couple of things for sure:

1. It's easier to get a sale at lower price (base) than at higher (upgrade), REGARDLESS of how the higher priced product is positioned: by itself upfront, as an upsell, or as one of the 2 alternative options on the 1st page.

2. It's easier to make a pitch for 1 product than for 2 at the same time, even if one of them is a decoy to build up the other. The fewer new things we introduce the smoother the sale.

3. People love buying bargains. You should build in a big "well justified" price drop for a base product to make it convert better.

4. Attempt at pre-sale upgrade will cause some (a few) buyers for lower price point item not to buy at all.

5. An average order page (CC billing form) abandonement rate is in the 60%-70% (we tested these quite a bit and they stay at that level for diff. producsts). The biggest challenge of the funnel is to drive the very first sale in the sequence and get the initial order. Get that working and you can optimize the rest of the funnel later.

Knowing this, my bet would be on option #1 MODIFIED - show 1 product with lower price (base) and GET an order. On the same page show an installment (2 pay option) for the same low price product.

Then with buyer's info in hand do other post-sale upsells, and downsells to split pay on bigger ticket offer(s).

-Alex

I don't remember where I read this, and I haven't tested it for myself, and it may not apply to this situation exactly, and I'm making up the numbers because I don't remember the real numbers . . . BUT, what follows is interesting nonetheless.

Someone or some company offered three versions of their newsletter. The digital version was like $37 a month. The print version was like $57 a month. And the third option was for both the print and digital version for $57 a month.

Even though the price was the same for the print version and the print plus digital versions, and even though the content was the same in the print and digital versions, offering the third option greatly increased the subscription rate for the more expensive option. They concluded that, because the price was the same, it caused people to feel the digital plus print option was the biggest bargain/best value because they were getting both versions for the price of the print version. Go figure.

I wish I could remember where I read that, but it escapes me. Sorry.

I would commit them to the base product first then
attempt the upsell on the next page.

Too many people have difficulty making decisions when
confronted by choice up front. Make the sale then go
for the gravy.

Tsnyder