Infractions...

by Tamer 30 replies
Hi...

I need to see what others are thinking about this topic?

As you know... Allen introduced "Members Are Moderators" concept in this new WF 3.0

By Allen Says:
"...What they are for, on this board, is for members to help 'train' new people who are screwing up before they get themselves banned."

"...The infractions will stay because it gives members the ability to warn new people here that they are making some mistake, and they can then correct it or get booted."

"...So no worries about infractions. Use them for what they are intended for. If you get one you don't feel is right don't bother contacting anyone, just let it expire."
My question: Do you think that "infractions" should be given anonymously?
(i.e. only Admin should see who gave infractions to whom?)

or it should be (as it is now) onymous?

While infractions are expiring in 10 days...
It still feels bad when one is given

This was discussed (without a poll) by Jenn Dize (and others) but I was just wondering if members agree with her point of view (I do).


Advantages of being anonymous (among many others):
- Members can give infractions freely, knowing that they won't be attacked back by the 'infracted' member... in all cases Admin is watching!

- "infracted" members are going to think twice before doing something that
annoys the community... because they know that they will be "punished"
without a chance to "slap back".


Advantages of being onymous (among many others):
- Members who "standout" and give infraction, are aware that they
have to be responsible enough to do so...
Since they MAY (or may not?) be creating an ongoing [negative feelings] with another warrior.

- The ability to "traceback" any unfair infractions.


I'm curious what you guys think about this?


Thanks,
Tamer

P.S. Please understand that I'm not criticizing (or bitching) how the forum is working... I'm only wondering if people are thinking as I do in this regard?

P.P.S. Post your opinion and also use the "anonymous" poll ...
#main internet marketing discussion forum #infractions
  • Profile picture of the author peteinoz
    heres a good example why they should be public

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-millions.html


    apart from that Im undecided really..

    pete
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
    I believe infractions should be given under transparency, otherwise it would be too easy to give infractions without good cause. No anonymity!
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    Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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    • Profile picture of the author Tamer
      pete...

      That thread was deleted? or what happened there?
      (its not opening).

      Tamer
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      • Profile picture of the author Felu
        Originally Posted by timtim2500 View Post

        pete...

        That thread was deleted? or what happened there?
        (its not opening).

        Tamer
        Yea seems like it was deleted. I saw it in the New Posts and then it disappeared when I clicked on it. Probably was spam.
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      • Profile picture of the author peteinoz
        Originally Posted by timtim2500 View Post

        pete...

        That thread was deleted? or what happened there?
        (its not opening).

        Tamer
        it was a dude with 1 post count pushing Frank Kerns latest video scraped an put on his own blog
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      I think if you're going to give an infraction than you shouldn't be afraid to have your name associated with it. That's one thing I dislike about thread ratings.
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      • Profile picture of the author pwebbiz
        Tim,

        I would like to see an infraction added for just 'bumping' a thread to increase your post count by posting crap like "me too", "I agree" or anything else useless....

        Other than that I like the infraction system. I hand out my fair share and will often get a PM reply from the person - at which point I take some time to educate them about the rule that they violated.

        I like this system because by giving us this power we all truly become moderators in that it's our job to not only issue violations / infractions - but to educate new users about our policies.

        I always consider using the 'warning' check for new users who are ignorant - but they deserve the infraction if they could not take 5 minutes out of their lives to review the rules

        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by pwebbiz View Post

          Tim,

          I would like to see an infraction added for just 'bumping'

          Michael
          Me too.
          There are far too many still abusing that tactic.
          Including getting their cronies to bump it for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author SpeedDemon
      Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

      I believe infractions should be given under transparency, otherwise it would be too easy to give infractions without good cause. No anonymity!
      That's the part I don't get either. If you have anonymity, couldn't you just give unwarranted infractions to whoever you wanted? Like people with competing WSOs or just for a personal vendetta? Seems like that system is just asking to be abused.
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      • Profile picture of the author pwebbiz
        Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post

        That's the part I don't get either. If you have anonymity, couldn't you just give unwarranted infractions to whoever you wanted? Like people with competing WSOs or just for a personal vendetta? Seems like that system is just asking to be abused.
        Kevin is saying that you should NOT be anonymous !

        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
          Just popping in since I was one of the people who originally brought this up in the other thread...It's not about not taking responsibility for giving infractions. Obviously if people are wrongly giving them, Allen and other admins should be able to trace it back. For me...I know there are some crazies out there and I don't feel comfortable making people upset when they can retaliate and continuously contact me/harass me.

          I've already had one member do so on the old forum because I said I had a good experience with graphic artist and they were having trouble contacting them...several harassing e-mails ensued about taking me to court for my passing comment about my experience (to another member fyi), so I'm not taking chances.

          I don't think they should be "anonymous"...that would certainly get abused. I was originally saying only admins should be able to see who gave them...but that everyone should be able to see the reason, just not the person. As it is...people are just looking at each other's infractions tab as a gossip thing (oooohhhh look what he did!)

          I've said this on the other thread...I'm just not going to give them unless they are anonymous.

          It's my personal choice, and everyone can make theirs, no harm done I've got a family and I'm not about to piss off a crazy person, lol.
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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            WooHoo! i got my first infraction from a newbie spamming the forum, LOL.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
              The infractions can be a bit of a nuisance.

              Some jerk looked at my avatar and PM'd me to say that I was fat... and then gave me an infraction for it.

              I haven't heard back from him since I pointed out that my girlfriend is 5'11".
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              • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
                I think they are fine as they are now. It seems that Allen knows what he is doing, and knows what he wants!

                I see no reason to have a poll or a thread like this for people's views on this subject if these views are imaterial!
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                • Profile picture of the author pwebbiz
                  Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

                  I think they are fine as they are now. It seems that Allen knows what he is doing, and knows what he wants!

                  I see no reason to have a poll or a thread like this for people's views on this subject if these views are imaterial!
                  Mary,

                  If BIG Mike got an infraction and John Rove did too - somethings not *quite* right yet and revealing these slight kinks in the system can be beneficial.

                  Michael
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                  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
                    Originally Posted by pwebbiz View Post

                    Mary,

                    If BIG Mike got an infraction and John Rove did too - somethings not *quite* right yet and revealing these slight kinks in the system can be beneficial.

                    Michael
                    pwebbiz,

                    I have no problem with reading the OP, like I said I think it is fine now the way Allen has it.

                    How is knowing or not knowing who gives an infraction beneficial or relate to what you are stating here?

                    Your comment really had nothing to do with tamera's initial post!

                    A possible bug in software/script is a whole different circumstance then knowing who gives and infraction and who doesn't. But of course that is my opinion.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    Yesterday I found one newbie who was "infracting" like crazy - and got himself banned. I think the system will work - and I don't think anyone is immune (as in too important to receive an infraction).

                    Must admit I've formed opinions about new members based on some of this activity - and not in a positive way.

                    I have yet to "infract" anyone though I've seen a few promotional posts that deserved it. Les is on top of the signature infractions - and we can still PM a member with a friendly warning if we choose that route.

                    If someone is giving infractions because of how another warrior looks - or because they don't agree with an opinion - they are just telling everyone else in public how absolutely shallow and silly they are. How smart is that?

                    Laugh and move on - the infractions will disappear after a few days...as will the people abusing the system.

                    kay
                    Signature

                    Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Nathan -

                      I may be wrong, but I think infractions expire in 10 days now.

                      There is another alternative - and that is to use the "!" buttom, click the menu to "other" and state the problem you see. Wouldn't advise using it for any except obvious spam or clear rules violations.

                      Using that method, if several people report the problem, that takes care of it without exposing yourself. As far as I know, nothing has changed with that type of report.

                      Whether it's a pat on the back or kick in the behind - we should always consider the source before letting our ego be inflated or deflated.

                      kay
                      Signature

                      Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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                      • Actually you all, the post count is no longer going up as you add posts in a thread.
                        Your post count remains the same as you travel through a thread. It only seems
                        to change when you go to another thread. That's what I've experienced.

                        I started a thread today with 190 posts, posted within the thread 14 times and at the end of the thread my post count remained at 190 posts.

                        Now, I don't know what happens when you change threads but I'm sure that Allen has that one figured out as well. I'll have to look further to get a definitive answer to this one. Anyone having any information on this I would receive it gladly.

                        Thanks.

                        Estelle
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                        • Just testing to see if what I believe is an actual fact. I believe that my post count will stay at 191 which is what it was in my previous post just up above this one.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
                            There are times when the Warrior Forum is one of the most useful business tools that anyone can have. And there are other times when it feels more like the school playground.

                            This whole infraction thing is in the latter category.

                            It seems to me that there are a few people who are acting like school hallway monitors, dishing out their petty punishments simply because they can.

                            Rather than making this forum a better place, they are creating an atmosphere of fear and political correctness as many people who might have indulged in interesting discussion and banter are self-censoring (or worse, not posting) out of an absurd concern that some small-minded self-appointed snitch is going to besmirch their name.

                            Maybe I'll get one myself for speaking my mind. So be it.

                            The only way the sad people who think it is clever to point fingers at others can win is if the people being pointed at give a damn.

                            I know whose opinions I do care about and I can't imagine any one of them bothering to report anyone other than an out and out spammer.

                            Martin

                            P.S. Hopefully this silly-season crazyness will pass soon and the WF will get back to being as good as it should be.
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                            Martin Avis publishes Kickstart Newsletter - Subscribe free at http://kickstartnewsletter.com
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
                    Originally Posted by pwebbiz View Post

                    If BIG Mike got an infraction and John Rove did too - somethings not *quite* right yet and revealing these slight kinks in the system can be beneficial.
                    John Rove?
                    Damn Michael, the 'v' is nowhere near the 'w' on my keyboard.
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                    • Profile picture of the author David Cavanagh
                      Hi,

                      My take on this is it's a totally stupid idea.

                      Who gives people the right to give infractions to someone like Big Mike, myself, Kevin Riley, James Brown, Willie Crawford, Martin Avis etc when they've only just joined the Warrior Forum, and have got NO RESULTS in real life (online or offline) to justify them the opportunity to give them in the first place?

                      It's like saying "well if this guy/girl gives a valid comment but pisses me off... off to the infraction traction room...".

                      What a joke!

                      If this forum is going to be held in high esteem by Warriors, then ALL aspects of the running of it should be looked at in the same way.

                      I just got an infraction for one line too long in my signature so I changed it.... should Allen get an infraction for changing the look and feel of this forum, which in the same time messed up all of the url's in the signatures?

                      It's time to think *REAL* about online and offline success and stop playing cowboys and indians.

                      People who sit in here looking for problems and faults should look at their life and wonder what it would look like if only they put in the same dedication towards their business.

                      Interesting is it not?

                      Thanks!

                      David Cavanagh
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                      • Profile picture of the author rondo
                        I think we've had more than enough threads about forum features.

                        Andrew
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                        • Profile picture of the author admin
                          Administrator
                          I've thought a long time about it today and decided we'll get rid of those too. We're actually doing fantastic with the self moderating thing, it's going far better than I could have hoped for.

                          So really it seems to be enough. If you want to warn someone about something send them a PM. :-)

                          Let's get back to the forum business of making money...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Originally Posted by timtim2500 View Post

    Hi...

    I need to see what others are thinking about this topic?
    Why?

    What's the point of a discussion/poll?

    Allen has decided how it'll work, I guess he's monitoring what's going on
    and he will, no doubt, make changes if he thinks they are needed.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Originally Posted by timtim2500 View Post

    Hi...

    I need to see what others are thinking about this topic?
    Why do you NEED to know what other's are thinking (I'm curious)

    If you're going to dish out infractions, take responsibilty for them!

    Kymi
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    • Profile picture of the author Tamer
      John & Kim...

      > What's the point of a discussion/poll?
      > Why do you NEED to know what other's are thinking (I'm curious)

      Giving Infractions to other members, is a new feature...
      (and the whole "members are Mods" concept it also new...

      Just wanted to get a "pulse" of how it will/should be used?
      That's all

      > Allen has decided how it'll work, I guess he's monitoring what's
      > going on and he will, no doubt, make changes if he thinks they are needed.

      ... correct, and I wasn't implying that it should be changed in anyway...
      its fine as it is now... and surely he have taken the right decisions to protect/improve his forum.

      The poll (by definition) was added so that different members express different points of views.

      Tamer

      P.S. Happy birthday John...
      is it the 13th of August in UK? or not yet?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        I think if you've got time to:

        1. Go around imposing infraction on others for things
        you disagree with...

        or...

        2. Time to put up polls asking questions about issues over which
        nobody but admin has control...

        You have far too much time on your hands.

        Go ahead... infract me! lol

        Tsnyder
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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