Getting real sick of flippa.com...

14 years ago

That's why you should never auto-accept bids. It's not Flippa's fault, they have a specific warning for selecting auto-accept (with good reason).

Lesson learned, don't do it again next time.

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colinph970

14 years ago

I sell on Flippa but don't normally suffer this problem.....persevere my friend!

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Yeah ... this one isn't Flippa's fault. I'm kind of sick of Flippa also, but for entirely different reasons. They just keep on adding less and less value for sellers ever since they switched from Sitepoint to Flippa. The new listing format is the latest in their lack of consideration for what paying customers need in a listing. Putting all those junk charts at the beginning of every auction.

One day I see a strong competitor to Flippa coming and sellers ditching them for good. I already spend more money right here in WF Sites for Sale than I do Flippa and that wasn't the case when it was Sitepoint.

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FiveMe

14 years ago

There will be something better and more beneficial for everyone involved.

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mikeveli20 14 years ago

I usually never allow Auto-Accepted bids, but you're right it can be a pain when the auction is nearing close and you have to sit there and accept every new bidder that comes through.
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Thomas Smale

14 years ago

Originally Posted by FiveMe

There will be something better and more beneficial for everyone involved.

Do you mean a competitor to Flippa?

Many have tried and failed. Going to need a unique idea and a hell of a lot of funding to get started, and even then, Flippa are pretty much entrenched in their position as market leader.

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Orator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Smale

Do you mean a competitor to Flippa?

Many have tried and failed. Going to need a unique idea and a hell of a lot of funding to get started, and even then, Flippa are pretty much entrenched in their position as market leader.

Your comment got me so intrigued, I actually spent two hours plotting what a site to challenge Flippa might look like. I quickly came to the conclusion that your right, it would take a decent warchest to get off the ground.

Still from a challenge perspective, it's an interesting thought.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Orator

Your comment got me so intrigued, I actually spent two hours plotting what a site to challenge Flippa might look like. I quickly came to the conclusion that your right, it would take a decent warchest to get off the ground.

Still from a challenge perspective, it's an interesting thought.

A site to challenge Flippa would look like Sitepoint. There wasn't anything wrong with it and sellers liked it a lot more than they've ever liked Flippa.

Yahoo used to be the search engine leader, so no one is entrenched forever. It would take some massive advertising, but sooner or later I suspect someone will do it.

The thing is ... Flippa says if there are no buyers, no one will sell anything ... and right now they have the buyers.

But get this ... if you get the sellers to move because they are fed up and all that's left is the buyers ... what are they going to buy? Nothing. They will move.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Orator

Your comment got me so intrigued, I actually spent two hours plotting what a site to challenge Flippa might look like. I quickly came to the conclusion that your right, it would take a decent warchest to get off the ground.

Still from a challenge perspective, it's an interesting thought.

I'd like to know what you came up with. What would a "decent warchest" be? Did you come up with a cost breakdown for creating an online venue for buying/selling websites that would be competitive with Flippa? Thanks.

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Orator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I'd like to know what you came up with. What would a "decent warchest"? Did you come up with a cost breakdown for creating an online venue for buying/selling websites that would be competitive with Flippa? Thanks.

I will stress that this "concept" was created by a caffeine addled brain, and only worked on for less than two hours.

I decided flat out that I wasn't interested in recreating sitepoint. I wanted to approach from my own ideas.

The first thing to be done was going to be twofold, find out what flippa is doing right and what there doing wrong. What is it that people liked about sitepoint, and what do they like now about flippa?

These are pretty obvious questions, but there important ones.

The next thing I would need would be a partner. The fact is I don't have enough on hands experience with site flipping, or flippa to know the kinds of things an expert would.

This raises other questions.

What would a site look like? How much to have it designed? How would I find traffic?

I've got more experience in outsourcing, but I've never honestly done anything on such a scale. I estimated based on my own experiences, I would want at least a budget of $20,000 for outsourcing.

I realize that this isn't exactly a viable business plan, and quite frankly it would need tons and tons more work. It was just an interesting challenge, and I enjoyed thinking about it.

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konradbraun

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Smale

Do you mean a competitor to Flippa?

Many have tried and failed. Going to need a unique idea and a hell of a lot of funding to get started, and even then, Flippa are pretty much entrenched in their position as market leader.

I don't know about that one... as long as people get frustrated with flippa (as most are already) there will be people attempting to come out with better systems, and as we seen with facebook - it only takes one new system to hit the right cord at the right time and boom.. the old system is history!

I am not in the site flipping business but I used to be... and in all honesty, I feel sorry for the people that are in the lower-end site flipping busienss... there really is not that great of a marketing venue out there anymore!

As an example: I have a PR5 autoblog that I am wanting to sell... and though I am sure it would be a hot seller, I am not ready to give up 50% of the sale just to list it somewhere without having any certainty of it selling.

A lot does come down to how it is presented - this is true and I know it - but $30 to list a site for sale? You serious?

@sbucciarel - how does the warrior "website" section perform? I have considered trying it for a while now!

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FiveMe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Smale

Do you mean a competitor to Flippa?

Many have tried and failed. Going to need a unique idea and a hell of a lot of funding to get started, and even then, Flippa are pretty much entrenched in their position as market leader.

Yes, there will be a competitor that will understand the needs of a marketers angle and the need of a business that might benefit from these sites and ideas that a marketer has.

As far as funding, ain't no thing in reality. think of everyone who thinks they know a good idea when they see one.

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jazbo

14 years ago

Starting up any niche auction site is tough. You need a constant stream of both sellers and buyers, so its a double traffic whammy. I used to mentor someone who threw a ton of money at an auction site and then panicked and asked me to help. Whichever way I approached it, it was tough to see how you can ever get the word out to enough buyers and sellers to create an ongoing critical mass. The only reason flippa achieved it is because they spent a decade building up loyalty on sitepoint.

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konradbraun

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jazbo

The only reason flippa achieved it is because they spent a decade building up loyalty on sitepoint.

That might be true... but that loyalty (from what I understand) is almost non-existent now. The only reason they are still in business is because there are no better alternatives (just yet)!

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Thomas Smale

14 years ago

Originally Posted by konradbraun

That might be true... but that loyalty (from what I understand) is almost non-existent now. The only reason they are still in business is because there are no better alternatives (just yet)!

That's not really true. The vocal minority will tell you that they are annoyed with Flippa etc, but will still go there to list sites.

Like a few others have mentioned, Flippa has all the buyers. Where there are buyers, people will pay to list their sites as long as it is profitable.

There are no better marketplaces for selling XXXX-XX,XXX sites. The sites below that are mainly junk anyway, so Flippa gradually pricing them out of the market can only be good for the future of their site.

I think a lot of people forget that Flippa have 10 years of Sitepoint loyalty behind them. You could through 10s of thousands into paid advertising, but their reputation cannot be bought.

It's do-able, but I still haven't been able to figure out the best way to do it - and I've been planning for over a year!

Just my 2 cents!

Thomas

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Smale

That's not really true. The vocal minority will tell you that they are annoyed with Flippa etc, but will still go there to list sites.

Like a few others have mentioned, Flippa has all the buyers. Where there are buyers, people will pay to list their sites as long as it is profitable.

There are no better marketplaces for selling XXXX-XX,XXX sites. The sites below that are mainly junk anyway, so Flippa gradually pricing them out of the market can only be good for the future of their site.

I think a lot of people forget that Flippa have 10 years of Sitepoint loyalty behind them. You could through 10s of thousands into paid advertising, but their reputation cannot be bought.

It's do-able, but I still haven't been able to figure out the best way to do it - and I've been planning for over a year!

Just my 2 cents!

Thomas

That's not what I see. I see a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the sellers, sellers who used to be a lot more active on Flippa but have turned more to their lists than to Flippa.

The Flippa threads are filled with unhappy sellers ... they are not the minority. We list because of a lack of alternatives but I seriously doubt that will always be so. The Internet changes constantly and those companies that get too smug with their success and don't listen to their paying customers eventually will pay a price.

Right now there are two threads on Flippa ... this one and the one below

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ng-paypal.html

Originally Posted by DaWarrior

I am really UPSET, but will get over it.
The Freaking Buyer who ended up being a NEW flippa registered user the same day they won the auction, will now not communicate with me.
This was a high selling site, with multiple bidders and my worst fear came before listing the auction, FRAUD!!!

So I will let Flippa know about the possible Fraud.
And can I ask a bidder I will sell to them since the false winner?
I would hate to relist and wait....

Just another listing gone bad with fraudulent buyers. I've had my share of buyers that bid and then you never hear from them again after they won the auction. You lose your real buyers when that happens and not all of them are new buyers. Some of them have good feedback from other purchases. Who knows why these jackasses bid without any intention of buying, but it happens on Flippa all the time.

So you get your site relisted for free. Great. You have to start all over and hope you get some real bidders next time. And yet on Flippa's blog ... it's all about due diligence so you don't get ripped off by the bad sellers ... all the while there are many cases of sellers getting ripped off by the bad buyers.

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Thomas Smale

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

That's not what I see. I see a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the sellers, sellers who used to be a lot more active on Flippa but have turned more to their lists than to Flippa.

The Flippa threads are filled with unhappy sellers ... they are not the minority. We list because of a lack of alternatives but I seriously doubt that will always be so. The Internet changes constantly and those companies that get too smug with their success and don't listen to their paying customers eventually will pay a price.

We are still the vocal minority.

At a guess, I would say 98% of Flippa sellers will only have sold 1 site - and the small percentage of us who sell regularly are therefore a minority. Those with negative experiences will always be more vocal than those without any issues.

I agree they need to keep us happy, but most of us are still extremely profitable, so will continue to pay their fees unless there are better alternatives elsewhere.

Ebay put their fees up - and will continue to do so for as long as they have buyers, sellers will be there.

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Hamza

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DaWarrior

So I posted a high priced site on Flippa for 2 weeks. And had several bidders all interested.
Well the last few hours I decided to add "Allow all BIDS Auto"
Meaning any bids can be placed without my approval.
Well that was BAD on my part. I get some new user and BANG more than what the otehrs wanted to pay!

So I contacted Flippa hours before to DELETE the bidder bid and let me decide the bids.

So I have heard this is a known issue with Flippa and I think they should allow the seller to cancel ANY BID before ending.

Same thing happened to me brother ...

A new user clicked on the buy now button and he ended the auction, and now i have to submit a dispute to flippa and wait for them to allow me to reliste the site ...

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cashcow

14 years ago

I don't know about that one... as long as people get frustrated with flippa (as most are already) there will be people attempting to come out with better systems, and as we seen with facebook - it only takes one new system to hit the right cord at the right time and boom.. the old system is history!

This is true, but the problem is that it is the sellers that are frustrated not necessarily the buyers.

Getting sellers to move to another venue where there are no buyers (yet) will be rather difficult and the buyers won't come unless there is a large selection of sites.

It's like ebay - plenty of frustrated sellers over there for years but has anything else come close to them?

I think the place that has the best chance of beating that out is right here at WF in the websites for sale section. If it could be structured more like SitePoint was then it would probably do even better.

Lee

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by cashcow

I think the place that has the best chance of beating that out is right here at WF in the websites for sale section. If it could be structured more like SitePoint was then it would probably do even better.

Lee

This is true. Warrior Forum has buyers already ... lots of them. Never underestimate the power of simplicity. It's easy and a lot cheaper to do business in WF Complete Sites for Sale.

Could it be improved? Maybe, but not really sure it is necessary. The so called improvements that Flippa has made over what it used to be have been detrimental to sellers ... period.

All those charts and blogs posts about how not to get ripped off have just pushed buyers into not trusting the listings, to the detriment of ethical sellers. Their focus is on buyers rather than those who pay their bills, and what good has come of it? Not much. Their marketplace is still full of junk, but what do they care? They make money off of that junk.

I mean ... look at their "trust" factors for buyers and sellers. Do you have a Linkedin and Facebook account? What spammer and scam artist doesn't? How does that instill trust? Makes it look like they have a seller rating system in place, when in fact, it's just a bogus rating system that is completely meaningless, other than the genuine feedback from real customers.

They added the dispute resolution center. More bogus stuff that is just for show. Before ... you complain to Flippa or Sitepoint about a deal gone bad and the offender gets banned.

Now ... lol. You go through their dispute resolution and the offender gets banned. There's no resolution because Flippa cannot control transactions and cannot provide a monetary remedy for someone who has been scammed. So why pretend to be "dispute resolution"?

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russblanc

14 years ago

I always proceed with caution and have never automate on Flippa. I like total control...

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Sonomacats

14 years ago

Having only been on eBay, why is it a problem on Flippa to allow new bids that outbid what you've already got?

Doesn't that just mean you get a higher price?

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paulie888

14 years ago

It is true that Flippa has become very entrenched in the marketplace, and many people trust them implicitly. I just wish that they didn't use their virtual monopoly on the marketplace to change things that didn't need changing, and I think it was especially greedy of them to start charging all those additional fees including the percentage based ones.

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Dave Owen

14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

It is true that Flippa has become very entrenched in the marketplace, and many people trust them implicitly. I just wish that they didn't use their virtual monopoly on the marketplace to change things that didn't need changing, and I think it was especially greedy of them to start charging all those additional fees including the percentage based ones.

Call it greedy if you want to, but it was a shrewd business decision.

They need some competitors to pop up, otherwise it will be the consumers who continually get screwed.

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paulie888

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Owen

Call it greedy if you want to, but it was a shrewd business decision.

They need some competitors to pop up, otherwise it will be the consumers who continually get screwed.

I agree totally. This is why there are anti-trust laws in place; we definitely do not want one corporation or entity taking over the marketplace as we'd most likely end up being overcharged for things and screwed royally, just like what is happening with flippa right now.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

I agree totally. This is why there are anti-trust laws in place; we definitely do not want one corporation or entity taking over the marketplace as we'd most likely end up being overcharged for things and screwed royally, just like what is happening with flippa right now.

Nonsense. Anti-trust laws exist simply to punish success. If people were getting screwed over royally there as you claim, no one would be using them. No one is being forced to use Flippa. And contrary to popular belief, Flippa does not have a monopoly on selling websites.

sell website - Google Search

And what's ironic about your post is that those responsible for enforcing so-called anti-trust laws are in charge of the biggest monopolies around.

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Thomas Smale

14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

I agree totally. This is why there are anti-trust laws in place; we definitely do not want one corporation or entity taking over the marketplace as we'd most likely end up being overcharged for things and screwed royally, just like what is happening with flippa right now.

Sorry, you are wrong.

Flippa certainly don't have a monopoly on selling sites.

Also, define "overcharge". Considering the quantity of qualified buyers, don't you think 19 bucks is good value to sell a site for $10k? Yes, you have to pay a success fee which most of us argue isn't really justified, but it's no different from ebay.

The "overcharging" has only really affected those who were building/selling Wordpress blogs for a few hundred bucks. These are the sites that serious buyers/sellers don't want to see, and as far as I'm concerned, the quicker they are priced out of the market, the better.

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MichaelBenz 14 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

I think it was especially greedy of them to start charging all those additional fees including the percentage based ones.

Greedy? No. EXTREMELY Smart? Yes.

Why wouldn't they do this? It instantly bumps their customer value.

As far as a competitor, it would be really though because of the traction they already had in the marketplace from formerly being sitepoint.

They had a built in clientele already, and just took it to the next level.

Not gonna lie there are some things that really need to change on there, but nothing that SERIOUSLY affects our ability to make an absolute killing using their marketplace.
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veylo

14 years ago

Flippa is really losing the sellers and the sellers are what keep flippa going. Flippa now charge too high fee's.

If anyone is interested in a joint venture regarding a flippa alternative, please get in touch. We are and able to invest a unlimited budget on a unique idea/s, which more importantly alot lower fee's.

Get in touch with us, our whole business involves creating and managing established and new businesses daily.

It would take a huge effort to actually fight flippas dominance, but i assure you, it can be done.

I think flippa fails in alot of ways, specially in vetting new buyers/sellers, the whole process of being a member is so easy to get around. Scammers who get banned can just get another account in seconds, this really needs to be addressed.

The feedback feature is also a complete mess, this also needs to be changed, the reason being? have you noticed some new sellers/buyers have been able to get a plus 10 feedback just by adding a facebook page or linkedin page.

There are alot of bad features via flippa, which need to be addressed instantly or a newcomer around the corner would simply dominate website sales.

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ambitichx

14 years ago

Thanks for posting your experience, DaWarrior

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Adam S. Cochran

14 years ago

It is a shame that this happened but Flippa does have a warning about this, and it is still the top of the market in site flipping market places.

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pavionjsl

14 years ago

Holy cow, warrior forum has a good following, with lots of buyers and sellers here. If that was leveraged, with changes..........

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thunderbird

14 years ago

I think that with the obvious discontent over flippa.com that a new player will come along. One with the ability to cancel bogus or red-flag-raising bids. To imagine that flippa.com will always be on the forefront with no worthy competitors emerging...is foolish.

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DaWarrior

14 years ago

Wow, I did not think this thread will be so active.
This Flippa auction would be my first top site (thousands...)

I really just hope Flippa gets their act together on screening buyers and even sellers.

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Travis Van Slooten

14 years ago

Justin over at FlipFilter.com has started a great series on what it would take to start a new marketplace. It's very thorough and a must read for anyone who is thinking of taking a crack at Flippa. Here is the link to the post:

Building a new Marketplace to showcase Websites for Sale | Find Websites for Sale with FlipFilter

Sufficed it to say, I am one that believes simplicity can win in the end. Look at the Digital Point forum. At one point they were a decent place to buy and sell websites. Now look at the Warrior Forum. It is slowly becoming a good place to buy and sell websites (although the bulk of the sites here still seem to be startups and not established sites). These are "simple" forums.

If I was running the Warrior Forum, I would just add a few additional features to the websites for sale section - similar to what Digital Point did - so that it's a little easier to buy and sell websites via an auction format. I would also create an "established websites" sub section and beef it up.

In short, the Warrior Forum has the reputation, brand, and audience to trump Flippa. This may sound crazy but if the Warrior Forum wanted to enter this space on a serious level, I think they would give Flippa a run for their money.

Travis

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Orator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tvanslooten

Justin over at FlipFilter.com has started a great series on what it would take to start a new marketplace. It's very thorough and a must read for anyone who is thinking of taking a crack at Flippa. Here is the link to the post:

Building a new Marketplace to showcase Websites for Sale | Find Websites for Sale with FlipFilter

Sufficed it to say, I am one that believes simplicity can win in the end. Look at the Digital Point forum. At one point they were a decent place to buy and sell websites. Now look at the Warrior Forum. It is slowly becoming a good place to buy and sell websites (although the bulk of the sites here still seem to be startups and not established sites). These are "simple" forums.

If I was running the Warrior Forum, I would just add a few additional features to the websites for sale section - similar to what Digital Point did - so that it's a little easier to buy and sell websites via an auction format. I would also create an "established websites" sub section and beef it up.

In short, the Warrior Forum has the reputation, brand, and audience to trump Flippa. This may sound crazy but if the Warrior Forum wanted to enter this space on a serious level, I think they would give Flippa a run for their money.

Travis

Nice, after reading that I have this insane desire to sit for a week planning something a lot more grand then I came up with earlier.

You also hit the nail on the head, there really isn't a lot of established sites sold. You can get a really nice website designed, but I really haven't seen any high value sites sold.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by tvanslooten

If I was running the Warrior Forum, I would just add a few additional features to the websites for sale section - similar to what Digital Point did - so that it's a little easier to buy and sell websites via an auction format. I would also create an "established websites" sub section and beef it up.

In short, the Warrior Forum has the reputation, brand, and audience to trump Flippa. This may sound crazy but if the Warrior Forum wanted to enter this space on a serious level, I think they would give Flippa a run for their money.

Travis

Absolutely agree that WF is the one site that has the clout and the sellers and buyers to grab a lot of Flippa's action. If that section of it functioned as an auction, like Sitepoint did and separated out established sites, they could probably get a lot more buyers and sellers.

The one thing that they already have is the buyers and sellers of websites, which none of the startups that tried to compete with Flippa ever had and they didn't do any advertising, so they didn't stand a chance.

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seobro

14 years ago

Hey, I use to like flippa back when it was sitepoint, but not anymore. What a sad sorry set of sites, as in sorry. Have yet to see a site I have to buy this whole year. Quality issues aside, it seems like they are overrun with less than savory characters if you know what I mean.

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tori.brown

14 years ago

I'd just love it if you could do a 2nd chance offer like on ebay. also, if you're going to flip sites, you have to make sure that you offer something worth selling, else you're not going to have any kind of decent sales %.

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Kris Johnson Mac

12 years ago

Must be getting saturated.

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Getting real sick of flippa.com...

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