Why does income proof mean so much to you?

22 replies
This has always baffled me because we all know the income proof can be altered.

I have marketed products outside of the IM niche for a while now and I'm just now planning to launch an IM product. I refuse to show income proof... if I loose a few sales because of it, no big deal.

I prefer to focus on the quality of my copy instead.

Anyhow, my question still stands...

Why does income proof matter so much to you?

This is not a general question. I want to know your own personally specific answers.

Thank you

Marc
#income #proof
  • Profile picture of the author cwrinco
    A while back there was a huge discussion here on a thread about hype....what is hype as a noun and as a verb.
    I loved reading that discussion because I understand how much distrust there is on the internet because of the amount of 'hype' and even more importantly flat out 'lying' about the performance of certain products.
    I think there has been a lot of disappontment... there has been for me.... and a lot of us 'buyers' are looking for some evidence of results.
    So, if I am looking at a product that is making claims about income potential, I would be interested in knowing if the author/seller actually worked with it and used it himself, and if so, what results did he achieve.
    That might give me some idea of what I could do with the product if I bought it.
    Quality of copy? Whew! How many times have I read that sales copy that got my heart pumping, ordered the deal, and was completely blown away by the product which didn't come close to living up to the sales message.
    I think it's kind of an evaluation thing. It helps if you know the seller or anything about his reputation, but I think we do have to be careful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Henshaw
      Why does income proof matter so much to you?
      It doesn't!

      When I see that on a sales page, it turns me off completely. Not only does it increase the length of copy that I have to read, but I know how anyone can put anything about earnings on a sales page - and I can never verify its legitimacy or validity.

      If the acclaimed earnings are from a person that I trust and/or someone that I have purchased from before, then I will still ignore the figures, but may still purchase, if it's a product or service that I need.

      On the other hand - if I read a sales page with reams of screen prints of their third party provider accounts showing "earnings", I will make every effort to research and investigate that person, to try to ensure that they are legitimate and a marketer of integrity, before I consider purchasing what is on offer.

      Regards,
      Jeff Henshaw.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyPhunk
    It lends to the credibility of the author/product.

    If it's some no-name marketer with another guru-bashing sales letter, and it had some earnings pic..it will add to his credibitily. But because he's a no-name dude, I would still be skeptical.

    However, if it's Frank Kern and he shows pictures of his accounts, then that only reinforces his credibility. I already trust the guy, his free stuff has already worked for me, and I have no reason to believe why it isn't false.

    You're planning to launch a product in the IM niche...why don't you split test the "income proof" pics? your audience might be more responsive to the income proof picture (thus, making you more cash) than not having it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Income "proof" is meaningless on so many levels, the least of which being that we have absolutely no idea what kind of business structure the marketer had in place to earn this income.

      Especially the ones that like to talk about earning a millions dollars in a week, a day, an hour...
      What they don't tell you is how they spent several hundred thousand to achieve those results.

      Yes, there is a certain type of personality that responds to this kind of persuasion, but not as many as one may think.

      It is much more effective to prove that the system is repeatable, scalable, and just makes sense.

      Best!
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      • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
        Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw View Post

        It doesn't!

        When I see that on a sales page, it turns me off completely. Not only does it increase the length of copy that I have to read, but I know how anyone can put anything about earnings on a sales page - and I can never verify its legitimacy or validity.
        I feel the same way. Thank you for your resoponse

        Originally Posted by JohnnyPhunk View Post

        You're planning to launch a product in the IM niche...why don't you split test the "income proof" pics? your audience might be more responsive to the income proof picture (thus, making you more cash) than not having it.
        Thanks for the suggestion but, I will never submit to that way of doing business. When I start seeing Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Donald Trump showing income proof. Maybe I will reconsider then.

        I don't want to attract the type of crowd that's sold on income proof.

        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        Income "proof" is meaningless on so many levels, the least of which being that we have absolutely no idea what kind of business structure the marketer had in place to earn this income.
        I agree... this is what make me feel like it's an unethical practice. It's too much of a blatant play on the emotions of someone that is really looking for a solution.

        It's a fact that people are more privy to purchase a solution product when they are desperate. And income proof is all it takes to get them over the edge.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Income proof means nothing to me...
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    It doesn't.


    The truth is, for me, I have no interest in how much money someone else is making - I just want to be sure that I'm going to be interested or educated by whatever they're offering.

    I'd happily buy from someone who's never made any money if they're offering information I want or am interested in, and I'd happily not buy from someone making millions if I don't need what they're offering.

    For me it's about what I want/need, rather than what they're offering. The 'proof' usually has a negative or negligable effect.

    When I sell products I have no interest in telling people what I earn, I just trust that they'll see the value in what I'm offering - if they don't then I know I need to revise my copy.

    Andy
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
    Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

    This has always baffled me because we all know the income proof can be altered.

    I have marketed products outside of the IM niche for a while now and I'm just now planning to launch an IM product. I refuse to show income proof... if I loose a few sales because of it, no big deal.

    I prefer to focus on the quality of my copy instead.

    Anyhow, my question still stands...

    Why does income proof matter so much to you?

    This is not a general question. I want to know your own personally specific answers.

    Thank you

    Marc
    Because these days anyone with a computer and half a brain can create a course on how to make money. There is a limited amount of time I have to work on tactics and I'd rather not use flawed tactics.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by nhangen View Post

      Because these days anyone with a computer and half a brain can create a course on how to make money. There is a limited amount of time I have to work on tactics and I'd rather not use flawed tactics.
      People with a computer and half a brain can also fabricate income proof.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
        Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

        People with a computer and half a brain can also fabricate income proof.
        That is true and unfortunately I do not have an answer. Thank god for forums like this with review sections. What about if the person made a video that showed income rather than screen shots?
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        • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
          Originally Posted by nhangen View Post

          That is true and unfortunately I do not have an answer. Thank god for forums like this with review sections. What about if the person made a video that showed income rather than screen shots?
          I still think that is unethical to an extent because it takes too much of the focus off of the product and places it on how successful the marketer is.

          And, even if someone records their Paypal of Clickbank earning with a camcorder, there is no guarantee that the totals are a result of the product being pitched.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Pereira
        Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

        People with a computer and half a brain can also fabricate income proof.
        The thing is, you, I and other marketers know this because we've been around for some time, seen examples of this done badly and so on.

        To me, income proof means jack, as it probably does to most marketers. If the product looks good, and offers something they want for a reasonable price, they'll buy.

        However, the most of the buyers of "make money online" products tend to not be marketers, but newbies looking to become marketers. So they want to see proof, and proof (and a few solid testimonials) make them more comfortable buying the product, even more so if they have little to spend.

        Lastly, most newbies wanting to become marketers are still naive, they take everything they see at face value and don't examine it further. So even if the income screenshot looks so unbelievable (that is, the scammer which edited it has made mistakes like no commas between numbers, and extra space somewhere, uneven lines... whatever)... other marketers will notice it, but those new to the field will not.

        On any "make money online" product I've sold (and this hasn't been many, as I don't like the field) income proof has sent sales through the roof. Even if it's small amounts.
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        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
          Income "Proof":

          "Evidence" shown on a website to "prove" that you can earn xyz.

          Like all evidence, context is important, usually there is no evidence that the money in your paypal account or clickbank account is related to the results claimed in the information product you're peddling.

          For example:

          I'm a designer - for the last 3 months I've received a fair amount of money in my paypal account.

          I could, quite easily, launch an info product:

          "How to make insane amounts of money selling toenail clippings to costume jewellery makers"

          And "prove" that I've earned over $6000 in a month... without doctoring my paypal screenshots.

          This is why context is so important, and why I completely ignore "income proof"

          Kindest regards,
          Karl.
          Signature
          eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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          • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
            So you write great copy...that doesn't make it worth purchasing. Great copy is easy to pay for and even if the author has a great course on paper, that doesn't make it worth purchasing.

            I personally think that the market is over-saturated with info products and the good courses get lost in the mess.

            So if you want to sell snake oil, I guess having good copy is fine, but if your product is really something you can back up with results, then word of mouth will be a better sales pitch than any landing/sales page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    Income "proof" doesn't mean anything to me and I don't use it in my copy.

    Yes, it will "convince" a certain type of person -- but from my experience it's the newbies that get sucked into this stuff and they end up being the worst customers.

    If anything it's a red flag for everyone else and you have a bigger burden to prove that you actually did make that money and it actually was made using the system that you're selling.

    The few products I've released in the IM field are targeted towards more experienced marketers and therefore income "proof" is more likely a negative.

    The bottom line is it's too easy to fake, and even real screenshots don't prove that the money was made using the system being sold.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    Testimonials influence my buying decision more so than income proof.

    But who is to say these have not been fabricated?

    But then, if it's a testimonial from a well-known marketer then it's probably genuine.
    Signature
    "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
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  • Profile picture of the author richpeck
    It's not income proof people look for - it's proof in general.

    The anonymity of the net allows you to "become" MANY different people. If you "invest" in a product, you want to make sure it's not BS.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ted Kopelli
    IF you are providing fantastic income proof, why are you selling me your method????

    Why don;t you keep it to yourself and make all the money?

    A good product should be good enough to sell itself. If it fills a need, people will buy it.

    Writing a 20,000 - 30,000 word sales letter trying to convince someone to buy something they probably do not need is what leads to mistrust in my opinion.

    Ted
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    I've never mentioned my personal income in a salesletter.

    If you don't want to bring it up - don't. Show how your
    product works instead - more powerful proof can come
    in other ways: such as quoting an article with statistics
    about the need in the marketplace from a magazine like
    Forbes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Howard
    Income proof is a powerful tool when you are targeting newbies. Because a newbie has never seen the potential of IM, it is probably a little unbelievable at first.

    However, when targeting experienced IM'ers, your reputation had better precede you. I will never buy from someone I have never heard of, no matter how good their photoshopping skills are.
    Signature

    ====================
    Kyle Howard
    MaxRatings.com - 3 Easy Ways to Make Money Online
    ====================

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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    I'm going to answer this, then go back to see what others have to say...

    When someone is promoting a method or model, I look for some indication that the method or model has worked more than once. I don't want to finance a one-hit wonder that will never repeat their initial success.

    I also look at how reasonable the claims are. If someone shows me a shot of a Clickbank account with five or six figures in sales, and all of them are from one product on one day, it tells me they cashed in on a hot launch. That's fine, if they're promoting a product on how to cash in on hot launches. Otherwise, it's a red flag.

    Sometimes the income claims are simply ludicrous...

    Right now, today, I could whip up a product to show you how to add $25 million to your bottom line, overnight, without having to sell anything. The proof would be several people holding up large checks. The product would be a 2-minute video showing how to fill out a Florida Lotto ticket so you are eleigible for a $25 million dollar bonus.

    On a side note, this is an incredibly effective upsell. Buy the regular $1 ticket for a chance at the prize. Add $1, and they'll add $10 million to your share if you win. Make it $2, and they'll add $25 million. The state sells a ton of $2 and $3 tickets twice a week.

    Oops, guess I can't do that product, just gave it away for free...:p

    So to answer the question, income proof matters because it has clues to whether the marketer behind the proof is on the up and up, or trying to bamboozle me...

    Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

    This has always baffled me because we all know the income proof can be altered.

    I have marketed products outside of the IM niche for a while now and I'm just now planning to launch an IM product. I refuse to show income proof... if I loose a few sales because of it, no big deal.

    I prefer to focus on the quality of my copy instead.

    Anyhow, my question still stands...

    Why does income proof matter so much to you?

    This is not a general question. I want to know your own personally specific answers.

    Thank you

    Marc
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