Gravity High or Lower - Which Sells Best & Why?

57 replies
Hi

I am researching wether to use CB or not for some new products I have coming.

Anyway an interesting point that has come out in replies is that people are finding that selecting CB products that have a Gravity of 60 plus do better than those with very high gravity e.g. 200 plus.

If anyone has a good explanation for and understands why I would love to hear it?

John
#gravity #high #lower #sells
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    There was a similar thread about this a while back.. here was my response from that thread, and I still think this right now:

    --------
    I pretty much ignore gravity if I have already got a new niche on the go.

    If I am looking for something new, I will dig into the deeper echelons of lower gravity products to find a gem or two.

    But the majority of the time, I pay very little attention to gravity.

    In fact I would advise most people to base their promotional decisions on anything BUT gravity..

    The weather, the wind direction, hunger, thirst... anything but gravity. It's a figure that is often falsely inflated and doesn't really give you much of a picture about anything important anyway.

    -------
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Hi John,

    Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

    If anyone has a good explanation for and understands why I would love to hear it?
    I'll try ...

    Gravity is an indication of how much competition there is. It measures the number of affiliates who have each made one or more sales over the previous 8 weeks. Each affiliate gets, effectively, a “score” between 0.1 and 1.0 (according to when they made their last sale, but not according to the quantity they sold) and the total is the product's gravity figure. Sounds easy enough to understand? It isn’t.

    Nearly all internet marketing guides make the howling mistake of advising beginners to promote only high gravity products. This has a hugely distorting effect on the market and its observed statistics. There's a big and constant turnover of new affiliates trying to sell high gravity products, failing, dropping out and being replaced by others repeating their experiences. This of course boosts those products' gravity figures further and further, because gravity measures the number of affiliates who (eventually) make a sale, not the number of sales made.

    If there are two otherwise equivalent and equally good products, with otherwise matching statistical parameters, but one has a gravity of 15 and the other has a gravity of 150, my own instincts are to suspect very strongly that (other things being equal) both the conversion-rate and the numbers of sales are actually very likely to be higher for the lower gravity product.

    So, I actually avoid high gravity products: the day I learned that (and a few other things) and started acting on it was the day I started earning some real money through being a Clickbank affiliate

    I promote 15 different Clickbank products at the moment, and my two best-converting products, by far, out of all those, both have single-figure gravities. Some people think that's a “coincidence”. I think they’re wrong.

    I stay away from high gravity products because (as Clickbank now, finally, advises affiliates openly on their site) the one thing you know for sure about a high gravity product is that it's going to be competitive to sell.

    Here's a little example, which might possibly clarify the issues:-

    Clickbank Product A

    - Sales-page conversion-rate 2.8%
    - Solid product from well-known marketer
    - Product has almost no refund requests
    - He has 20 affiliates of whom 10 are superaffiliates who sell huge numbers of the product
    - Product is easy to promote and sell
    - Sales numbers are therefore very high, but the gravity figure is obviously very low (maybe around 10)

    Clickbank Product B


    - Sales-page conversion-rate 0.2%
    - Dreadful product from scammy marketer
    - Refund request-rate is higher, of course
    - Product had a "professional launch" with 100 "temporary affiliates" (accounts used once each to buy one product, privately refunded, and/or the figures were massaged in one of the other "customary ways")
    - Product is obviously a complete and utter nightmare to promote and sell because the sales-page doesn't convert well
    - Gravity figure starts out at about 110, and rapidly rises to 150/200 because gullible affiliates are attracted by the gravity figure, believing wrongly that it "validates the fact that the product is selling very well", and they all struggle and waste time/money, but eventually they obviously make 1 or 2 sales each anyway, and for this reason the gravity figure rises still further to 250/300 as the inevitable consequence of its self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive.

    Obviously enough, product "B" is the high gravity product.

    Obviously enough, product "A" is the one for which I want to be an affiliate.

    These examples are in no way contrived. They're both realistic and common.

    A product with 20 affiliates each making 1,000 sales will have a far lower gravity than a product with 500 affiliates, all attracted by the high gravity and struggling to make 1 sale each because the sales page hardly converts their traffic at all. But by the time they make 1 sale each, that boosts the gravity figure still higher. This is part of the explanation for the sometimes dreadful conversion-rates of the sales pages of the products with the highest gravities.

    Key points:

    (i) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the conversion-rate

    (ii) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the number of sales: specifically, for various reasons, low gravity products can have enormous numbers of sales without this showing. High gravity products can (and quite often do) have comparatively low sales. This confuses a lot of people.

    Here are more little examples of how the numbers work:-

    - A product with 100 active affiliates each making steady sales will typically (but not necessarily) have a gravity score around 50 - 70

    - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their sales very recently will have a gravity score much closer to 100

    - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their last sale many weeks ago will typically have a gravity score of about 10

    - A product with 100 active affiliates can't have a gravity figure higher than 100, however many copies they each sell

    - If product A has 100 affiliates who each made one sale last week but have never made any other sales at all, and product B has 100 affiliates who have each made 500 sales over the last 2 months, of which in each case the most recent sale was last week, then these two products have the same gravity, though one has of course sold 500 times the number of copies of the other. (This difference will be reflected to some extent in the product's "popularity score", but not in its "gravity score").

    If the five points above make sense to you, then you know how "gravity" really works.

    Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

    I pretty much ignore gravity if I have already got a new niche on the go.

    If I am looking for something new, I will dig into the deeper echelons of lower gravity products to find a gem or two.
    This goes for me, too: it's of less concern and interest to me if I already have a niche on the go and am "just adding something", to be honest.
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    • Profile picture of the author sergi
      Clickbank should help demistify gravity! Or hire Alexa
      Signature

      "Don't strive to be a man of success, but rather a man of value". Einstein.

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    • Profile picture of the author bbstreet4
      You are the ONLY person I've come across so far that has explained "gravity" this way. Everyone else says it's the amount sold. Obviously, not so! Thank You Alexa.
      Signature

      Peace & Light,
      Betsy

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    • Profile picture of the author NigelJohnson
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Hi John,



      I'll try ...

      Gravity is an indication of how much competition there is. It measures the number of affiliates who have each made one or more sales over the previous 8 weeks. Each affiliate gets, effectively, a "score" between 0.1 and 1.0 (according to when they made their last sale, but not according to the quantity they sold) and the total is the product's gravity figure. Sounds easy enough to understand? It isn't.

      Nearly all internet marketing guides make the howling mistake of advising beginners to promote only high gravity products. This has a hugely distorting effect on the market and its observed statistics. There's a big and constant turnover of new affiliates trying to sell high gravity products, failing, dropping out and being replaced by others repeating their experiences. This of course boosts those products' gravity figures further and further, because gravity measures the number of affiliates who (eventually) make a sale, not the number of sales made.

      If there are two otherwise equivalent and equally good products, with otherwise matching statistical parameters, but one has a gravity of 15 and the other has a gravity of 150, my own instincts are to suspect very strongly that (other things being equal) both the conversion-rate and the numbers of sales are actually very likely to be higher for the lower gravity product.

      So, I actually avoid high gravity products: the day I learned that (and a few other things) and started acting on it was the day I started earning some real money through being a Clickbank affiliate

      I promote 15 different Clickbank products at the moment, and my two best-converting products, by far, out of all those, both have single-figure gravities. Some people think that's a "coincidence". I think they're wrong.

      I stay away from high gravity products because (as Clickbank now, finally, advises affiliates openly on their site) the one thing you know for sure about a high gravity product is that it's going to be competitive to sell.

      Here's a little example, which might possibly clarify the issues:-

      Clickbank Product A

      - Sales-page conversion-rate 2.8%
      - Solid product from well-known marketer
      - Product has almost no refund requests
      - He has 20 affiliates of whom 10 are superaffiliates who sell huge numbers of the product
      - Product is easy to promote and sell
      - Sales numbers are therefore very high, but the gravity figure is obviously very low (maybe around 10)

      Clickbank Product B


      - Sales-page conversion-rate 0.2%
      - Dreadful product from scammy marketer
      - Refund request-rate is higher, of course
      - Product had a "professional launch" with 100 "temporary affiliates" (accounts used once each to buy one product, privately refunded, and/or the figures were massaged in one of the other "customary ways")
      - Product is obviously a complete and utter nightmare to promote and sell because the sales-page doesn't convert well
      - Gravity figure starts out at about 110, and rapidly rises to 150/200 because gullible affiliates are attracted by the gravity figure, believing wrongly that it "validates the fact that the product is selling very well", and they all struggle and waste time/money, but eventually they obviously make 1 or 2 sales each anyway, and for this reason the gravity figure rises still further to 250/300 as the inevitable consequence of its self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive.

      Obviously enough, product "B" is the high gravity product.

      Obviously enough, product "A" is the one for which I want to be an affiliate.

      These examples are in no way contrived. They're both realistic and common.

      A product with 20 affiliates each making 1,000 sales will have a far lower gravity than a product with 500 affiliates, all attracted by the high gravity and struggling to make 1 sale each because the sales page hardly converts their traffic at all. But by the time they make 1 sale each, that boosts the gravity figure still higher. This is part of the explanation for the sometimes dreadful conversion-rates of the sales pages of the products with the highest gravities.

      Key points:

      (i) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the conversion-rate

      (ii) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the number of sales: specifically, for various reasons, low gravity products can have enormous numbers of sales without this showing. High gravity products can (and quite often do) have comparatively low sales. This confuses a lot of people.

      Here are more little examples of how the numbers work:-

      - A product with 100 active affiliates each making steady sales will typically (but not necessarily) have a gravity score around 50 - 70

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their sales very recently will have a gravity score much closer to 100

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their last sale seven and a half weeks ago will typically have a gravity score of about 10

      - A product with 100 active affiliates can't have a gravity figure higher than 100, however many copies they each sell

      - If product A has 100 affiliates who each made one sale last week but have never made any other sales at all, and product B has 100 affiliates who have each made 500 sales over the last 2 months, of which in each case the most recent sale was last week, then these two products have the same gravity, though one has of course sold 500 times the number of copies of the other. (This difference will be reflected to some extent in the product's "popularity score", but not in its "gravity score").

      If the five points above make sense to you, then you know how "gravity" really works.



      This goes for me, too: it's of less concern and interest to me if I already have a niche on the go and am "just adding something", to be honest.
      Thank you Alexa, this really helps
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3645256].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author eapen john
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Hi John,



      I'll try ...

      Gravity is an indication of how much competition there is. It measures the number of affiliates who have each made one or more sales over the previous 8 weeks. Each affiliate gets, effectively, a "score" between 0.1 and 1.0 (according to when they made their last sale, but not according to the quantity they sold) and the total is the product's gravity figure. Sounds easy enough to understand? It isn't.

      Nearly all internet marketing guides make the howling mistake of advising beginners to promote only high gravity products. This has a hugely distorting effect on the market and its observed statistics. There's a big and constant turnover of new affiliates trying to sell high gravity products, failing, dropping out and being replaced by others repeating their experiences. This of course boosts those products' gravity figures further and further, because gravity measures the number of affiliates who (eventually) make a sale, not the number of sales made.

      If there are two otherwise equivalent and equally good products, with otherwise matching statistical parameters, but one has a gravity of 15 and the other has a gravity of 150, my own instincts are to suspect very strongly that (other things being equal) both the conversion-rate and the numbers of sales are actually very likely to be higher for the lower gravity product.

      So, I actually avoid high gravity products: the day I learned that (and a few other things) and started acting on it was the day I started earning some real money through being a Clickbank affiliate

      I promote 15 different Clickbank products at the moment, and my two best-converting products, by far, out of all those, both have single-figure gravities. Some people think that's a "coincidence". I think they're wrong.

      I stay away from high gravity products because (as Clickbank now, finally, advises affiliates openly on their site) the one thing you know for sure about a high gravity product is that it's going to be competitive to sell.

      Here's a little example, which might possibly clarify the issues:-

      Clickbank Product A

      - Sales-page conversion-rate 2.8%
      - Solid product from well-known marketer
      - Product has almost no refund requests
      - He has 20 affiliates of whom 10 are superaffiliates who sell huge numbers of the product
      - Product is easy to promote and sell
      - Sales numbers are therefore very high, but the gravity figure is obviously very low (maybe around 10)

      Clickbank Product B


      - Sales-page conversion-rate 0.2%
      - Dreadful product from scammy marketer
      - Refund request-rate is higher, of course
      - Product had a "professional launch" with 100 "temporary affiliates" (accounts used once each to buy one product, privately refunded, and/or the figures were massaged in one of the other "customary ways")
      - Product is obviously a complete and utter nightmare to promote and sell because the sales-page doesn't convert well
      - Gravity figure starts out at about 110, and rapidly rises to 150/200 because gullible affiliates are attracted by the gravity figure, believing wrongly that it "validates the fact that the product is selling very well", and they all struggle and waste time/money, but eventually they obviously make 1 or 2 sales each anyway, and for this reason the gravity figure rises still further to 250/300 as the inevitable consequence of its self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive.

      Obviously enough, product "B" is the high gravity product.

      Obviously enough, product "A" is the one for which I want to be an affiliate.

      These examples are in no way contrived. They're both realistic and common.

      A product with 20 affiliates each making 1,000 sales will have a far lower gravity than a product with 500 affiliates, all attracted by the high gravity and struggling to make 1 sale each because the sales page hardly converts their traffic at all. But by the time they make 1 sale each, that boosts the gravity figure still higher. This is part of the explanation for the sometimes dreadful conversion-rates of the sales pages of the products with the highest gravities.

      Key points:

      (i) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the conversion-rate

      (ii) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the number of sales: specifically, for various reasons, low gravity products can have enormous numbers of sales without this showing. High gravity products can (and quite often do) have comparatively low sales. This confuses a lot of people.

      Here are more little examples of how the numbers work:-

      - A product with 100 active affiliates each making steady sales will typically (but not necessarily) have a gravity score around 50 - 70

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their sales very recently will have a gravity score much closer to 100

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their last sale seven and a half weeks ago will typically have a gravity score of about 10

      - A product with 100 active affiliates can't have a gravity figure higher than 100, however many copies they each sell

      - If product A has 100 affiliates who each made one sale last week but have never made any other sales at all, and product B has 100 affiliates who have each made 500 sales over the last 2 months, of which in each case the most recent sale was last week, then these two products have the same gravity, though one has of course sold 500 times the number of copies of the other. (This difference will be reflected to some extent in the product's "popularity score", but not in its "gravity score").

      If the five points above make sense to you, then you know how "gravity" really works.



      This goes for me, too: it's of less concern and interest to me if I already have a niche on the go and am "just adding something", to be honest.
      Thanks a lot Alexa for this helpful post. This has put an end to the Gravity myth that I had all these months.. really every Clickbank affiliate must read this.
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      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        Alexa that's a brilliant post, one ofthe best posts I have read here in recent times. Great to see someone who really understands numbers as they need to be understood. Kudos.
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        • Profile picture of the author fabby
          Wow thanks Alexa for your input on this subject I feel that I have really learned some valuable information here.
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    • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Some people think that's a "coincidence". I think they're wrong.
      No such thing as a "coincidence". Well said Alexa!
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    • Profile picture of the author GarethT
      Re: Gravity High or Lower - Which Sells Best & Why?
      Thanks Alexa - for a most incredible article about Gravity - an Eye-Opening article - I'm still sitting here in shock!
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


      Gravity is an indication of how much competition there is. It measures the number of affiliates who have each made one or more sales over the previous 8 weeks. Each affiliate gets, effectively, a "score" between 0.1 and 1.0 (according to when they made their last sale, but not according to the quantity they sold) and the total is the product's gravity figure. Sounds easy enough to understand? It isn't.

      Nearly all internet marketing guides make the howling mistake of advising beginners to promote only high gravity products. This has a hugely distorting effect on the market and its observed statistics. There's a big and constant turnover of new affiliates trying to sell high gravity products, failing, dropping out and being replaced by others repeating their experiences. This of course boosts those products' gravity figures further and further, because gravity measures the number of affiliates who (eventually) make a sale, not the number of sales made.

      If there are two otherwise equivalent and equally good products, with otherwise matching statistical parameters, but one has a gravity of 15 and the other has a gravity of 150, my own instincts are to suspect very strongly that (other things being equal) both the conversion-rate and the numbers of sales are actually very likely to be higher for the lower gravity product.

      So, I actually avoid high gravity products: the day I learned that (and a few other things) and started acting on it was the day I started earning some real money through being a Clickbank affiliate

      I promote 15 different Clickbank products at the moment, and my two best-converting products, by far, out of all those, both have single-figure gravities. Some people think that's a "coincidence". I think they're wrong.

      I stay away from high gravity products because (as Clickbank now, finally, advises affiliates openly on their site) the one thing you know for sure about a high gravity product is that it's going to be competitive to sell.

      Here's a little example, which might possibly clarify the issues:-

      Clickbank Product A

      - Sales-page conversion-rate 2.8%
      - Solid product from well-known marketer
      - Product has almost no refund requests
      - He has 20 affiliates of whom 10 are superaffiliates who sell huge numbers of the product
      - Product is easy to promote and sell
      - Sales numbers are therefore very high, but the gravity figure is obviously very low (maybe around 10)

      Clickbank Product B


      - Sales-page conversion-rate 0.2%
      - Dreadful product from scammy marketer
      - Refund request-rate is higher, of course
      - Product had a "professional launch" with 100 "temporary affiliates" (accounts used once each to buy one product, privately refunded, and/or the figures were massaged in one of the other "customary ways")
      - Product is obviously a complete and utter nightmare to promote and sell because the sales-page doesn't convert well
      - Gravity figure starts out at about 110, and rapidly rises to 150/200 because gullible affiliates are attracted by the gravity figure, believing wrongly that it "validates the fact that the product is selling very well", and they all struggle and waste time/money, but eventually they obviously make 1 or 2 sales each anyway, and for this reason the gravity figure rises still further to 250/300 as the inevitable consequence of its self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive.

      Obviously enough, product "B" is the high gravity product.

      Obviously enough, product "A" is the one for which I want to be an affiliate.

      These examples are in no way contrived. They're both realistic and common.

      A product with 20 affiliates each making 1,000 sales will have a far lower gravity than a product with 500 affiliates, all attracted by the high gravity and struggling to make 1 sale each because the sales page hardly converts their traffic at all. But by the time they make 1 sale each, that boosts the gravity figure still higher. This is part of the explanation for the sometimes dreadful conversion-rates of the sales pages of the products with the highest gravities.

      Key points:

      (i) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the conversion-rate

      (ii) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the number of sales: specifically, for various reasons, low gravity products can have enormous numbers of sales without this showing. High gravity products can (and quite often do) have comparatively low sales. This confuses a lot of people.

      Here are more little examples of how the numbers work:-

      - A product with 100 active affiliates each making steady sales will typically (but not necessarily) have a gravity score around 50 - 70

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their sales very recently will have a gravity score much closer to 100

      - A product with 100 active affiliates who all made their last sale many weeks ago will typically have a gravity score of about 10

      - A product with 100 active affiliates can't have a gravity figure higher than 100, however many copies they each sell

      - If product A has 100 affiliates who each made one sale last week but have never made any other sales at all, and product B has 100 affiliates who have each made 500 sales over the last 2 months, of which in each case the most recent sale was last week, then these two products have the same gravity, though one has of course sold 500 times the number of copies of the other. (This difference will be reflected to some extent in the product's "popularity score", but not in its "gravity score").

      If the five points above make sense to you, then you know how "gravity" really works.

      This goes for me, too: it's of less concern and interest to me if I already have a niche on the go and am "just adding something", to be honest.

      This was genuinely one of the most helpful and informative posts I've read on Warrior Forum.

      Thanks Alexa.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9453445].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Wow Alexa ... you are quickly becoming one of my hero's. I do sell promote products but do not sell my own through CB.

    My own critieria has included looking for higher gravity although I avoid the IM market (just getting into it actually). I think that products in those categories will definitely suffer with inflated Gravity scores based on your comment ... which makes absolute sense.

    So as long as the product and sales page looks sound. It offers outstanding value a lower gravity would suggest a more profitable route.

    Thank you

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    To Alexa Smith: Wow...you explained gravity better than..Newton.

    Thanks, (seriously)
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author adionline
      Basically gravity doesn't mean squat other than the product is being promoted by affiliates. My suggestion is to test a few different offers (including high-gravity products) and keep an eye for new products entering the arena, make a habit of testing different offers on a regular basis.
      Signature
      Giving up is not an option.
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      • Profile picture of the author scarpet1
        I have always wondered why Clickbank does not have a different rating besides Gravity. I agree in most cases Gravity is worthless. More information about the product could be very helpful.
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    • Profile picture of the author seoweb2000
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      To Alexa Smith: Wow...you explained gravity better than..Newton.

      Thanks, (seriously)
      _____
      Bruce

      I was thinking the same thing
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    • Profile picture of the author ps142
      Originally Posted by Bruce NewMedia View Post

      To Alexa Smith: Wow...you explained gravity better than..Newton.

      Thanks, (seriously)
      _____
      Bruce
      haha awesome!
      To contribute to this thread, I was working for many years as a developer in a leading Forex broker. So all of us learned a lot about forex robots. One of them in particular is revered as one of the worst nowadays: FapTurbo. Its gravity though is over 100. I am 100% convinced that the refund rates for this product would be huge. I would stay away from it, like the devil.
      Another thing that is scary is that most products on clickbank with high gravity have some hideous landing pages, and products with "as seen on tv" testimonials and clever design a very low gravity.
      I tend to aggree that gravity basically means "this product is advertised by a lot of noobs".
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  • Profile picture of the author Katie Tenner
    People are usually going for gravity 60+ products because they think that it's not overcrowded with other affiliates. If the product has got very high gravity, than it's easy to understand that it's being promoted everywhere.

    I've found this kind of explanation in many courses and ebooks.

    Katie
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Lange
    Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

    Hi

    I am researching wether to use CB or not for some new products I have coming.

    Anyway an interesting point that has come out in replies is that people are finding that selecting CB products that have a Gravity of 60 plus do better than those with very high gravity e.g. 200 plus.

    If anyone has a good explanation for and understands why I would love to hear it?

    John
    You will find preferences on both sides of the coin. I have had success with both.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShadowCaster
    @Alexa You are awesome Now i finally understand what gravity is.
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    • awesome I finally understand gravity

      thanks
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      Some people make stuff happen, Some people watch stuff happen, Some people ask, "What Happened?"
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  • Profile picture of the author IMBT
    Alexa....Sir Issac Newton would be proud of you
    explanation of gravity....
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  • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
    Banned
    You've probably heard some say high and some say low. There are pros and cons to each:
    High: You know it sells and it converts and others are promoting but that also means mroe comeptition
    low: You know the market is open but does it sell?

    I guess you need to do some research. Find a product with a good gravity at least above 25 in my point of view while yet ensuring you can enter it and successfully pursue it.

    Not any guru or experienced im on the contrary infact but just my humble opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author j0b0123
    The trend of the gravity is more important than the number. If it was 8, then 10, then 13 then 20 then 27, that is more important than the actual number. It shows that a product is growing in popularity, usually because its getting conversions.

    you could have it the other way, 150 then 120 then 100 then 80 then 50 then 30, which would you rather start on? If its losing promoters, that usually means its not selling or converting and people are bailing on it.
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    • Profile picture of the author adionline
      Originally Posted by j0b0123 View Post

      The trend of the gravity is more important than the number. If it was 8, then 10, then 13 then 20 then 27, that is more important than the actual number. It shows that a product is growing in popularity, usually because its getting conversions.

      you could have it the other way, 150 then 120 then 100 then 80 then 50 then 30, which would you rather start on? If its losing promoters, that usually means its not selling or converting and people are bailing on it.
      A decline in gravity isn't necessarily tied to poor performance. For example a number of affiliates pick up a product and mail it out to their list which will result in a spike in gravity, over time the gravity will drop because the mail list has been exhausted, but that doesn't mean the product doesn't sell or is doing poorly.

      Other reasons for a decline are seasonal changes(less searchers) and market saturation (new competitors). None of these things are necessarily tied to conversion rates.

      This is why testing is so important... gravity is just not reliable enough as a sole determining factor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Saluki Guy
    Gravity is based mainly on sales volume of the total number of people promoting the item.
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  • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

    (i) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the conversion-rate

    (ii) there's no correlation between the gravity figure and the number of sales:
    We already had this debate on another thread, but here we go again...

    I agree with your (ii): there's no correlation between gravity and number of sales.

    However I don't agree with your (i). In real world terms, low gravity means that:

    1) there are few people promoting that product and thus few people scoring sales. In this case there's no correlation between gravity and CTR, because both figures are low.

    2) there are indeed people promoting that product but few actually scoring sales. In this case, this is in fact an indication of low CTR.
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    • Profile picture of the author adionline
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      In real world terms, low gravity means that:

      1) there are few people promoting that product and thus few people scoring sales. In this case there's no correlation between gravity and CTR, because both figures are low.

      2) there are indeed people promoting that product but few actually scoring sales. In this case, this is in fact an indication of low CTR.
      I think you confused CTR with conversions. CTR typically stands for click-through-rate. CTR has nothing to do with gravity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by j0b0123 View Post

      The trend of the gravity is more important than the number. If it was 8, then 10, then 13 then 20 then 27, that is more important than the actual number. It shows that a product is growing in popularity
      It shows only that it's growing in popularity with affiliates, not with customers.

      The number of sales can actually even be declining dramatically while the gravity is rising, as early enthusiastic affiliates (some of whom perhaps know the vendor) are dropping out in dismay and being replaced by others.

      As gravity rises, more and more affiliates see the rising gravity, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive: inevitably, more affiliates start promoting the product. And even if their conversion-rates are 1 sale in 1,000 clicks (at which point, of course, typically, they "drop out" and stop promoting it!) that increases the gravity just as much as if they'd sold 500 copies each, because gravity doesn't measure the number of sales. What's difficult to understand, there? :confused:

      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      In real world terms, low gravity means that:

      1) there are few people promoting that product and thus few people scoring sales.
      That's completely wrong.

      A product with a small handful of superaffiliates making 1,000 sales each has a far lower gravity (maybe 10 or so) than a hyped-up, poorly-converting product with many ffiliate making 1 or 2 sales each before abandoning it, which will typically have a gravity in three-figures. Again, this is simply incontrovertible fact. What's hard to understand?

      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      2) there are indeed people promoting that product but few actually scoring sales.
      On the contrary: low gravity is quite often, in fact, a reflection of a small number of affiliates each making very large numbers of sales! I'm an affiliate for two such products at the moment. Both have gravities in single figures, enormous sales volumes and very high conversion-rates.

      It's destined to be an argumentative topic for ever, I'm afraid, or for as long as there people who simply don't appreciate that gravity does not measure the number of sales. If you come to the subject knowing nothing, it's not a difficult concept to grasp. But it perpetually defeats people whose starting position is an assumption that a high gravity figure implies a big number of sales. It simply doesn't, and no amount of wishing it so is going to make it so.

      Originally Posted by adionline View Post

      I think you confused CTR with conversions.
      He meant conversion-rate, doubtless, when he said "CTR". To be honest, that's the least of his confusions on this subject.

      Originally Posted by Saluki Guy View Post

      Gravity is based mainly on sales volume of the total number of people promoting the item.
      This is totally wrong.

      Gravity doesn't measure the number of sales
      .

      I give in.
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      • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        That's completely wrong.

        A product with a small handful of superaffiliates making 1,000 sales each has a far lower gravity (maybe 10 or so) than a hyped-up, poorly-converting product with many ffiliate making 1 or 2 sales each before abandoning it, which will typically have a gravity in three-figures. Again, this is simply incontrovertible fact. What's hard to understand?
        That I know Alexa, I am not sure why you wouldnt understand my initial post. I repeat what I posted: "low gravity can mean that A) few people (super affiliates) promote that product and thus the gravity is low (even if they hit 1000 sales each). In this case, gravity and conversions are not related."

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        On the contrary: low gravity is quite often, in fact, a reflection of a small number of affiliates each making very large numbers of sales! I'm an affiliate for two such products at the moment. Both have gravities in single figures, enormous sales volumes and very high conversion-rates.
        I am starting to question whether you actually read the posts you answer to.

        Again, I repeat what I posted in my previous post: "low gravity can mean that B) there are many people promoting a product (small affiliates) but few scoring sales, and thus gravity remains low. In this case, this is indeed an indication of poor conversion for that product."

        So I repeat, ONCE AGAIN: Contrary to what you said, gravity can potentially be directly related to conversion rates, depending on which of the two scenarios (either A or B) we're facing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          Again, I repeat what I posted in my previous post: "low gravity can mean that B) there are many people promoting a product (small affiliates) but few scoring sales, and thus gravity remains low. In this case, this is indeed an indication of poor conversion for that product."
          I heard you the first time, Mr. AA.

          The repetition, sadly, doesn't make it any more true that low gravity is an indication of one of those two things. And I'm currently making substantial monthly income from two single-figure-gravity products that leave neither myself nor my bank manager in any doubt about that at all.

          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          So I repeat, ONCE AGAIN: Contrary to what you said, gravity can potentially be directly related to conversion rates, depending on which of the two scenarios (either A or B) we're facing.
          And I repeat, once again: "I give in". Try me a third time: you may get a different type of smiley out of me each time (but for yourself, that'll probably be the only joy, I'm afraid, because you still have your facts wrong).

          Originally Posted by forfun_cash View Post

          High gravity generally means the product is selling
          Why do people keep saying this?! It just isn't true.

          Gravity doesn't measure the number of sales
          .

          Sometimes all you can do is keep repeating the same thing, especially when (as in this case) it's a simple, objective, factual statement, and it's readily independently verifiable, as well. Is nobody willing to look it up on Clickbank's site and see for themselves, or even look at the detailed examples explained above (in post #3)? It must be "wind up Lexy day", today. Well, I have news for you: Lexy isn't playing any more, and is actually happy to leave her competitors chasing all those high gravity, high-affiliate-turnover, low-converting products.
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      • Profile picture of the author passiveincomebiz
        Forgive me for resurrecting this thread Alexa but I beg your indulgence. I get that gravity doesn't measure number of sales but could low gravity mean that few affiliates are promoting a product and due to poor conversion of the page - few of them make sales?

        The reason I ask is I would imagine that not all low gravity products are good sellers.

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It shows only that it's growing in popularity with affiliates, not with customers.

        The number of sales can actually even be declining dramatically while the gravity is rising, as early enthusiastic affiliates (some of whom perhaps know the vendor) are dropping out in dismay and being replaced by others.

        As gravity rises, more and more affiliates see the rising gravity, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for the naive: inevitably, more affiliates start promoting the product. And even if their conversion-rates are 1 sale in 1,000 clicks (at which point, of course, typically, they "drop out" and stop promoting it!) that increases the gravity just as much as if they'd sold 500 copies each, because gravity doesn't measure the number of sales. What's difficult to understand, there? :confused:



        That's completely wrong.

        A product with a small handful of superaffiliates making 1,000 sales each has a far lower gravity (maybe 10 or so) than a hyped-up, poorly-converting product with many ffiliate making 1 or 2 sales each before abandoning it, which will typically have a gravity in three-figures. Again, this is simply incontrovertible fact. What's hard to understand?



        On the contrary: low gravity is quite often, in fact, a reflection of a small number of affiliates each making very large numbers of sales! I'm an affiliate for two such products at the moment. Both have gravities in single figures, enormous sales volumes and very high conversion-rates.

        It's destined to be an argumentative topic for ever, I'm afraid, or for as long as there people who simply don't appreciate that gravity does not measure the number of sales. If you come to the subject knowing nothing, it's not a difficult concept to grasp. But it perpetually defeats people whose starting position is an assumption that a high gravity figure implies a big number of sales. It simply doesn't, and no amount of wishing it so is going to make it so.



        He meant conversion-rate, doubtless, when he said "CTR". To be honest, that's the least of his confusions on this subject.



        This is totally wrong.

        Gravity doesn't measure the number of sales
        .

        I give in.
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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    High gravity generally means the product is selling and that is why many people tend to select and sell products with higher gravity.
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  • Profile picture of the author goodmast3r
    Low gravity means
    1. The sales page conversion is bad, or product is bad
    2. People avoid to promote it, since it has low gravity.

    You just need to investigate which one is it.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by goodmast3r View Post

      Low gravity means
      1. The sales page conversion is bad, or product is bad
      2. People avoid to promote it, since it has low gravity.

      You just need to investigate which one is it.
      This is NOT true at all. You need to read Alexa's post above where your original post is. It explains the gravity issue beautifully.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrencewan
    I think the Gravity is not the most important factor to take into consideration. Should choose products that are relevant to your specialities, customer's needs and your understanding.
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  • stay clear from clickbank stuff.

    but if u were to go for it i would say pick the middle gravity.

    too high and its too competitive. people out there probably already seen this and are more likely to turn away again if not they would have bought the 1st time around already.

    dont pick too low as it means its not a good product. so a rule of a thumb pick middle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Streamline
    I am laughing out loud as I read Alexa's great explanation, followed by dumbfounded individuals with < 50 posts spouting off the exact opposite with no explanation or examples, then poor Alexa trying again.... LOL. Who needs cable TV?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Streamline View Post

      LOL. Who needs cable TV?
      I do! ...
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  • Profile picture of the author CPABeyond
    In my opinion,

    High gravity sells better.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by CPABeyond View Post

      In my opinion,

      High gravity sells better.
      Hello,

      I tried what Alexa recommends having followed all the people for years promoting high gravity stuff. As soon as I read what works for her my CB earnings went through the roof.

      So, moral of the story, your opinion means nothing unless you've tested it. She has tested it and I blatantly copied her and I've seen results.

      So for all those of you who "think" you know what you're talking about because you "heard" it elsewhere and are of the "opinion" you have a clue what you're saying, go back and read Alexa's post again because for you, "thinking" is costing you money.

      Originally Posted by ConvertingTraffic View Post

      dont pick too low as it means its not a good product. so a rule of a thumb pick middle.
      So according to you, if you made a brilliant new product and put it on CB, as it would have zero gravity, you'd consider your own product "not good"? Hmmmm, didn't read her post did you?

      Edit. I know this is an old thread but if just one person re reads her post it really will be of great benefit, so I don't actually begrudge Streamline for dragging it back up. Well done.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by sergi

      Clickbank should help demistify gravity! Or hire Alexa
      To be honest, ClickBank explains what it is pretty well. It's just that most people have not spent the time to think about what the implications are, as Alexa has.
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  • Profile picture of the author Abby Gibbs
    You are really amazing Alexa. You help so much those newbies by sharing what you have especially your ideas about internet marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author rydaphotoguy
    Thanks Alexa!! Great stuff! A little confused now since I always looked at gravity before but I am going to open my mind some. Thanks again.
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  • Profile picture of the author carlosterrazas
    Very interesting post, I'm new to IM and I found this is a great source for information (too much at times).

    I made some money on Clickbank products, but I'll definitely try your method of picking up products.
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  • Profile picture of the author sophxz
    wow. Alexa Smith , you are an expert!! amazing!
    Thanks so much for info~
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  • Profile picture of the author fedor50
    Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

    Hi

    I am researching wether to use CB or not for some new products I have coming.

    Anyway an interesting point that has come out in replies is that people are finding that selecting CB products that have a Gravity of 60 plus do better than those with very high gravity e.g. 200 plus.

    If anyone has a good explanation for and understands why I would love to hear it?

    John
    This is true and the reason why is because the products with very high gravity have a lot of competition.so it's best to choose products with some gravity but not too much gravity
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  • Profile picture of the author dlundy1
    the best answer for that is "It Depends". If a product has a HIGH gravity then it clearly sells well. but just because an item may have a LOW gravity dsnt mean it doesn't sell well. maybe everyone overlooked it b/c of the low gravity as well. The best bet is to Try it. nothing proves more that Trial
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  • Profile picture of the author Vrindavan
    Are products with rebill will cause higher Gravity than products without rebill ?
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      There is really no reason to debate this at all. If you want to sell a clickbank product, the process is really simple.

      Buy The Product.

      Read and use the product.

      If it is all that it is said to be.......Sell the product

      Gravity, Sales, and all the rest are meaningless. Is the product useful and will it fit in your niche, and can you honestly recommend/presell the product

      Al
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      • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        There is really no reason to debate this at all. If you want to sell a clickbank product, the process is really simple.

        Buy The Product.

        Read and use the product.

        If it is all that it is said to be.......Sell the product

        Gravity, Sales, and all the rest are meaningless. Is the product useful and will it fit in your niche, and can you honestly recommend/presell the product

        Al
        This 100%. I barely look at gravity.

        At the VERY LEAST I make sure it's got a good sales page that would convert buyers in the niche I'm targeting. I try to put myself in their shoes and see if it would convert me. If so, I'll market the product.

        That said, if you can get a review copy, do it. You'd be surprised how many vendors are willing to give you a review copy to look over. It's just a matter of asking.
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  • Profile picture of the author MontrealSEO
    Alexa, that was an awesome post and very helpful!

    I've started on the lower gravity CB products as well and it's helped a tremendous amount in terms of grabbing more traffic and conversions.
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    • Profile picture of the author starman21
      Thank you Alexa! Extremely helpful information to all!
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisWJohnson
    Banned
    I think Alexa Smith said everything about gravity. Thanks Alexa
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  • Profile picture of the author trustedmarketer
    Sometimes a high gravity product performs worse than a lower one. It's about doing your research and the most important factor - would you buy the product yourself? So put yourself in customers shoes.
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