Are the IM Gurus misleading Newbie......????

Some of these gurus make money doing what they teach, some just make money telling other people how to make money.

The real question is... Are there really "Guru's"? Or are they people that just took the initiative to push past old beliefs and habits, and start moving forward with their lives?

Bill Gates was the richest man in the world for over a decade. Is he a computer Guru? Or, did he just happen to hear about DOS, and took the initiative to get his hands on it and promote it to the world?

Yes, most clickbank items are focused towards 'Making Money Online'. But how many are worth the money you spend on them? How much of that information is FREE if you are willing to spend the time looking for it?

Instead of asking "What do the GURU's know that I don't". Start asking, 'What can I do that others will find helpful, and how can I profit from it?"

Some are looking to mislead you, some actually want to help you and all want to sell to you!

The REAL guru's are the ones that are teaching you to do it but also doing it themselves.

Time will either expose you or promote you <-- Best quote EVER

My biggest income stream in IM has nothing to do with selling make money online stuff. It's about physical product sites and non-IM information sites that get me Adsense clicks and affiliate commissions.

What happens along the way, though, if you start down that kind of path, is you learn all kinds of useful stuff that can be applied to many IM-related areas. So I think it's natural to move into IM info product selling and related activities.

What I don't like is when someone skips the first step (figuring out personally what works and what's nonsense) and just starts selling IM products and services without knowing if what they're passing on actually works. That's unethical, imho.

John

I was just looking at your ezine articles and found that 99% of your articles are also on IM and you have a giveaway also...

Then how come you made a list in health niche ,Sir

Hi,

The real money is all around you. It's good to look around a bit more
and try to avoid drawing too many conclusions from just one place
such as CB. Although it is understandable why that's easy to do.

Your second question...

There are all kinds of situations and people who have made millions
from non-IM "info" products. Just one example is the guy who has
been selling training/tutorial CDs related to computers and computer
apps. Can't remember his name, but I've seen his ads all over the place
and on TV.

There are tons of examples around if you look for them.


Ken

Take everything you read from gurus with a pinch of salt. IMO it's best to try things out for free first before you buy anything.

Go try to buy a Mc Donalds franchise with that logic and see how far you get.

I had a successful wso last week. Not ashamed to tell you.

I would assume that many of the people who bought it did so for the purpose rewriting it and rehashing the info Im sure... I dont care, Im just sharing knowledge... you cant be me, so you arent really my competition at being me... the people who buy you are a different market, they probably wouldnt have responded to me anyway. Real marketers knows that and dont fear competition. So I think you are generalizing and only small minded people try to "hide" the real MMO secrets.

Money is made by giving and sharing.

If I personally make money selling a MMO Reprt, Im gonna tell EVERYBODY about it...and encourage everyone to do it. Competition is nothing, in fact if they dont know what they are talking about they are only gonna make me more of an authority anyway!

Example:

I will tell you right now and can prove it that I made $2,000 doing it. First thing I did was go to Alexa and say "with you great writing why arent you doing this"?

Abundant people "share secrets" not "try to hide them" Thats a scarcity mindset that even causes you to be paranoid that thats the case. In fact it makes perfect sense that the MMO niche is alot harder than other niches because you are competing with stronger marketers... SO THATS WHY THE COACHES DONT ENCOURAGE IT!

I can tell you I made 2 grand of my wso, but I still dont advise it as the greatest way to make money for most people, (unless writing is your passion and you have experience making money at something...) because this wso hasnt made me as much as other things... I made a hell of alot more writing songs, liquidating stocklots, and selling offline services... if I write a report showing people how to do those things, it doesn't mean I think writing reports is the best way to make money.

In closing, if a guy makes a little money sharing what he knows, doesn't mean he's HIDING THE REAL SECRET...

I can tell you right now that one of my students right here on the forum made 10 TIMES more money last week taking my advice than what I made giving it to him, but giving it to him was my pleasure.

Success = "pleasure".

There are many of Guru titled newbie milkers out there but not all of them are same. They just happens to succeeded in many different niches and eventually it all comes down to how to make money online category in order to teach someone wants to learn IM-ing and its becomes easier to implement it on any other niches.

Yes, yes they are.

Scamming, cheating, thieving dirty scoundrels!!!

I think we should expose them all.

People come here to WF for one reason: To learn IM. So why not be grateful to those who teach it, instead of hating?

If you really dont believe that people really make money selling offline services for example, when there are offline businesses all around you who own websites...,and that these report writers just sell books to mislead newbies and there's no real money in it... Im so sorry but you are too ignorant to succeed anyway!

Yeah Dude you are right...I am greatful to members and believe me WF is where I respect people not like DP where I think reside the most mad bunch of people(Exceptions are always)


Steven Wagenheim Sir,After I whole conversation I came to know many a things and believe Me I never had a intention to blame any IM..



I think you are too fast in making wrong predictions about fellow people...Me sorry too

The make money online niche is very profitable, because many people is buying stuffs there right now, but as many people have told you in this threat there is money in every niche you just have to look for a problem people is having and give them the solution example:

I create a huge list in the financial industry because of the "crisis" I offer them debt relief products.

The health industry is huge, because many people are trying to loose weight and there are thousands of solutions out there.

Other niches not as trendy, but very profitable are info products related to
diseases, like ebooks explaining how to cure eczemas or headaches or things like that, remember, firs look for the problem then, bring the solution, there are many ways to solve a problem

Steven,
Well spoken as always. If the IM niche is such a hassle, perhaps your time could be better spent on other projects. This may be your time to change your direction, and focus more on your other Niches. Take your own advice, and get out while you can! Lower your stress and workload, and put that energy towards your passions. We already know you'll succeed. You have so far, and you have given some amazing information that we can all learn from.

imgoogle,
Although its not always possible to be loved, it is very important to avoid being hated. ~Machiavelli
This is important because fellow warriors deserve respect for the information that they share (When it is honest and useful information and not regurgitated crap). It is also important to remember when marketing because you want your readers to learn from you, and respect you. Giving bad information, leading someone to a bad deal, or outright lying is a good way to give yourself a bad name. Getting a bad name is easy. Fixing a bad name isn't.

...written as if there's a grand conspiracy.

Sure, some are misleading people, some are not. You can't just lump people together and make a judgment about them as a group. For something to be 'misleading' someone has to do the misleading. SomeONE, not EVERYone.

So the answer is no -- they are not misleading the newbie because there is no central authority issuing marching orders to the gurus as a whole. Specific people may be, but not all gurus.

Some gurus are in niches other than IM. Frank Kern was in dog training niche. There are a couple gurus who are in self help and NLP niches. Majority of clickbank products are about making money online but there are loads of people out there who sell their own products, and they don't sell thru clickank. I know of 2 people in relationship/dating niche who sell simple txt ebooks for like $30. Not even pdf! just txt, and they have big responsive lists. They sell dvd programs and interviews with other relationship experts as well. One of them explicitly targets single women who are unsuccessful at finding a guy for serious relationship. These people are making a killing by selling to desparate single women living in urban environment and burned out with the dating scene players. There are a lot of opportunities out there, and clickbank is definitely only the tip of the iceberg.

I love the Internet Marketing niche, and yes I make money doing it as well - but the thing here is your classing everyone who makes products with high grav or just top products in the im niche, as a guru. Well, what exactly is a guru - how come we class certain people as that. Why can't we class people as product creators or whatever they are. I'm not going to claim to be a guru guy, or be a genius at anything and I never will.

In fact, if I become a millionaire, I still don't want to be called a guru.

If this post is written badly. I apologize, I am still getting used to my blackberry

Caleb

Again, The "guru's" make money by having their OWN products and they promote their OWN products heavily. They have "guru" friends who they work with and they promote each other's products. It's a win-win for THEM and a constant lose for YOU if you never figure out the REAL secret. HAVE YOUR OWN PRODUCTS!!!. Not resell rights, not plr. %100 unique products of your very own.

I have a very rich cousin in-law in internet marketing and he has his own products, he didn't even know how clickbank worked until a year or two ago. The guru's dont make money by promoting others(unless they JV) By the way, when I say rich I'm talking lotto money, 10 mil a year guys. I can't stress enough how much you need to have your own line of products.

Why promote for others? Be the supplier!

If you can't make your own product then be the contractor, and have it outsourced.


And yes they do make and sell products "teaching" people how to make money, %5 of those people actually follow through with it. The rest just fade away, which is what they want. You havnt even seen the richest of the marketers, they don't hang around on Warrior Forum trust me.

No Nothing like Dear....I just wanted to say all in one line

Well May be......May be not......

No one likes to be hated ......So do I......

I wonder has anyone every experience this;

A couple of years ago, like a lot of people I was just doing my own affiliate marketing thing, and I happened on this little technique to capitalizes on 'Guru Launches'. So, I said to myself, "Yeah, I'm going to try this one out." I waited for a popular launch, and then I went into action. I didn't buy, order, even ask for a review copy from Guru doing the launch. Of course it was a 'How to make a money on the internet product' , but i didn't care. I just wanted to apply the technique.

What was the technique? simple, and by now I'm sure a lot of people know about it; Just buy a few domains names of the miss-spelling of the product name. And create a redirect to the merchant's site, via your affiliate link. That's it.

And on launch day, for a few days after that I watched my Clickbank account rise. Hey, I didn't get rich, but I did make some pretty good money for few days.

Now why am I telling you all this? It's because later I found out that the product and upsells were crap! And I felt like a real sleaze ball marketer for having been a part of that particular launch. Sometimes you can cross the fence... and not even realize it.

Now I do check out every product and the person behind it....(Closely).
Even if you are not a quote-un-quote guru, you can still push good, reputable products. It's up to you what side of the fence that you want to market from.

Thanks for technique

You are 100% right Dude.....

I think very few of click bank product related to IM is worth .

The so called gurus are really misleading .They are kind a genius in writing sales page or hired the smart copy-writer .

Very few are the genuine and honest IM guru .The best thing is i always like to go to read the reviews from the warrior forum 's product reviews section and get ideas before buy any product .

The overwhelming majority of successful IMers sell non-IM products. Those that sell to the MMO niche are a tiny spec in the overall internet marketing world. And an even smaller spec in the overall marketing arena.

RoD

What I have learned is that most IM Gurus leave out pertinent information in their products. I have spent thousand$ to educate myself and found most products only provided how to gather crumbs, not provide meat on the table. Also found many so-called "gurus" intentionally mislead. Case in point: If you guys recall the StomperNET fiasco where differences of opinion of its member gurus led to serious dissension. I have learned that the dissension was based on how much information to reveal and how much to keep to themselves.

Well that it .......Its in mind of 90% on IM in MMO niche...

There's a lot of garbage out there, and frankly at times I get disgusted by it. I don't blame newbies a bit for feeling skeptical about a lot of what they're being pitched.

There is no question that there is a lot of money to be made in "make money from home niche" however, it is EXTREMELY competitive and over saturated. For someone to make money in this niche you would need very deep pockets for sure.

To get on the first of page of Yahoo using "work from home" keyword costs upwards of $1.80 per click most of the time. Do the math, that adds up fast!!!

There are many other profitable niches that do not require such extensive resources.

I haven't been active on this forum for 18 months, but I've been sniffing around again lately. I'm glad to see my favourite poster Mr. Steven Wagenheim is still kicking ass!

There is so much crap that gets released in the wso area. I made a wso about a year ago and I was trying out something that I bought, the trifilliate payday (worst money I have ever spent!) and I was trying to make it work quick and without alot of effort. It sucked and the wso got flamed. So, I think that somehow the wso's need to be policed better and promote their own stuff. I didn't and I got flamed!

I have a blog in the Internet marketing - Make money online niche that I work extremely hard on I have a lot of posts on the subject. I personally do it because I love this niche, I taught myself everything from scratch 5 years ago and I like to post on these topics. I have a passion for the subject and that is what it takes to succeed online. I have brought my blog that is a little over a year old to a 120,000 Alexa rating and moving down fast using all free methods. No traffic exchanges, or dirty tricks just plain old fashioned hard work and knowledge. I have done this all in my spare time while working a 9 to 5. I don't like to be tied to the computer all day lol.

But my point is people should be grateful to hard working affiliates, and Internet marketers who basically spill their guts to tell you what they learned by their own trial@errors. I do not have to their are other profitable niches out there. I do it because I want to and I actually enjoy it. That is what is gonna make you successful those 2 key ingredients.

I never mention anything about getting Rich quick on my blog their is no such thing unless you hit the lottery, or your rich uncle dies and gives you all his money. Anybody that says you can get rich quick especially if your new, is a lying cheat and they should be arrested. I always say work hard, learn how to be a successful affiliate, or Internet marketer. And do not forget to build a mailing list. Those are the 3 key ingredients to success. I do write about product reviews too but their is no one holding a gun to your head saying buy this. Their is a 60 day return policy so the customer is protected, if they do not like the product. It is a business and to be successful you have to treat it as such.

And just because someone is in the Internet marketing- or make money online niche does not mean they are scammers. After all you are all here to learn how to make money online one way or the other regardless of the niche. You do not have to buy any E-books to be successful, it will take you longer but it is not mandatory. Be grateful for those of us out their who provide this kind of service because once you learn how to make money online you can take that experience anywhere with you even a job in the field in SEO, Internet marketing etc...

You can apply it to whatever niche you are in it does not matter now you have the know how. They are even offering degree programs in the Internet marketing field at some local colleges by me. It is a huge multi-billion dollar business.


If someone is a known scammer stay clear. This forum is about Internet marketing is it a scam? Hell no! It is the best forum online bar none no other forum even comes close. And you are here why? You either teach people how to make money online, or you want to learn how to make money online. Don't bite the hand that is gonna essentially feed you one day if you are a beginner. Take all the free advice, and tips that you can get, and apply it to your own online business.

There are a lot of good people out there. We do not want to be labeled as fraudsters just because we are in a particular niche. I will leave it at that!

Learn, Learn, Learn. Find a subject your passionate about, and work very hard, and you will be successful regardless of the niche. If you enjoy what your doing the sky is the limit!

Have you looked at the offers with the highest EPC on CPA networks? You will hardly find a bizopp offer. Health, insurance, debt, dating, etc are more likely to appear.

So, yes, there is a lot of money to be made out there and IM is just a small piece of the pie.


William

Here's an idea:

How about using your head?

Are you seriously asking whether the only "real" money on the net is made in the 'make money online' niche?

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Cmon, I know you're smarter than that.

Have you heard of the Google Keyword Tool?

Check out some of these keywords:

Wedding Speeches
Weight Loss
Muscle Building
Learning Piano
Learning Languages
Gardening
Cooking
Building Chicken Coops (yes)
Web Hosting

These are HUGE markets, with advertisers paying, in some cases, DOLLARS per click. These advertisers aren't going bankrupt either, and none of these markets have anything to do with money at all.

There are AFFILIATES in the web hosting niche making 100k a month.

There are product owners in the weight loss niches doing 1 million dollars a month, and more.

Fat Loss 4 idiots did $28.8 million in its first year for example. Thats just over 2 million a month. The site looks like it was made with ClipArt from the mid 90s for pete's sake...

Even when we niche down, there are still examples of 'real' money.

Ryan Deiss gave an example of a membership site owner with 2000 subscribers at $9.95 per month.....

Thats $20k per month, just shy of a quarter of a million dollars per year.

Guess what the site was?

It was a membership site for PASTORS.

Men of God.

Quarter mill a year.

Do you want to know why Gurus love the MMO niche?

Because its full of people that want to believe there is something they don't know. That someone is holding something back from them.

They believe that making money SURELY can't be as simple as, "creating something of value and then selling it."

Thats why there are so many lists in the Biz Op market, because people keep on buying product after product after product instead of facing up to their own inability to do anything.

Then they come on forums and assume that no money exists in the world if it doesn't have a high gravity on Clickbank.

And btw, gravity on Clickbank is determined by how many affiliates have managed to sell the product, not based on actual sales volume.

So the reason that those MMO products have such high gravity, is that all the cheeky biz op seekers think they'll be clever and use their own Clickbank affiliate links. The product owners don't even care because they price accordingly.

Look mate, you've received a real slapping today in this thread.

But make a decision today to not make excuses for your lack of success, we've all been there.

Stop looking for instructions on how to make money and think for a second about how you would do it.

Be proactive, think about it, and you will succeed.

All the best

In the world of Internet Marketing, there are much to learn. Maybe some info products are too advance for beginners. I believe that the purpose is right but the methods people applied is wrong. Maybe people didn't understand the concepts throughly. It did took me a while to actually get the most out of those ebooks.

At first i didn't understand anything, most of it. After reading many strategies and reread it, some great ideas actually popped up on my mind. I actually unlocked some potential about make money online, or internet marketing. Whatever you want to call it.

Studying business course online or offline is about the same. You still need to learn. You need to master the skill required(well am i right?). I think the advantage for online business is that it actually take less time than learning business course in college and flexible hours too. It cost less money. To me it is convenient.

To the best of my knowledge there are only 3 markets you need to concern yourself with and all of them are multi-billion niches:

#1 Wealth
#2 Health
#3 Lifestyle

Obviously each market has loads of niches to choose from and I suppose it then comes down to personal preference.

Thats True........