Are the IM Gurus misleading Newbie......????

61 replies
I was just looking at clickbank's marketplace and found 70% of the Info products are on based on "Make Money Online" and they have the great gravities.....

Where as most of the ebooks tell us that make sale in niches like debt,ex back.....etc

They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......

When I looked at JV section 90% of marketers have list of Internet marketing...

Where is the real money...???????????:confused:
I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
#gurus #misleading #newbie
  • Profile picture of the author rockingcow
    Some of these gurus make money doing what they teach, some just make money telling other people how to make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      My biggest list, believe it or not, is in the health niche.

      As in every walk of life, you are going to have your good and bad. Yes,
      some people simply make money by teaching others how to make money
      doing things they've never actually done.

      But there are also some honest people out there who actually walk the
      walk.

      Look at Ron Douglas, who has that big ad at the top of this forum.

      He has a best selling hard cover book on secret restaurant recipes.

      The guy is a millionaire selling that book.

      And it has NOTHING to do with teaching newbies how to make money.

      Please don't lump everybody into the same cauldron of stew. Not every
      "guru" (and I thoroughly detest that word) is a charlatan.
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      • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
        Check out a site called SaltyDroid.info for some juicy info on these guys.

        Fun stuff. I don't do anything with any of them, but it's still entertaining drama to follow.
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        • Profile picture of the author KevL
          Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

          Check out a site called SaltyDroid.info for some juicy info on these guys.

          Fun stuff. I don't do anything with any of them, but it's still entertaining drama to follow.
          Sheesh - I really don't want to laugh at these because it's really nasty character assanation & outright libel - but HAHA, I have to admit some of them are very flipping funny!!

          I wouldn't call it "juicy info" though, it's mainly just slur & accusations, anyone who's making a lot of money is a con artist, type stuff.

          Although I have to say I was shocked about the James Arthur Ray thing, I'm in the UK & that didn't make the news over here that I'm aware of. That really shocked me - although I was just as shocked by the fact that poeple paid $9000 each to not eat for 36 hours & then to sit in a badly built steam hut until they passed out......

          Cheers

          Kev
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      • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        My biggest list, believe it or not, is in the health niche.

        As in every walk of life, you are going to have your good and bad. Yes,
        some people simply make money by teaching others how to make money
        doing things they've never actually done.

        But there are also some honest people out there who actually walk the
        walk.

        Look at Ron Douglas, who has that big ad at the top of this forum.

        He has a best selling hard cover book on secret restaurant recipes.

        The guy is a millionaire selling that book.

        And it has NOTHING to do with teaching newbies how to make money.

        Please don't lump everybody into the same cauldron of stew. Not every
        "guru" (and I thoroughly detest that word) is a charlatan.

        The health niche is very competitive along with the make money online, and Internet marketing niche. Steven does well because he is a pro in the health niche and Internet marketing in general. If your a beginner learn how to make money online first before you jump in with the big dogs. Think low competition good results to start off with then move on to the big swimming pool when you think you are ready.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teravel
    The real question is... Are there really "Guru's"? Or are they people that just took the initiative to push past old beliefs and habits, and start moving forward with their lives?

    Bill Gates was the richest man in the world for over a decade. Is he a computer Guru? Or, did he just happen to hear about DOS, and took the initiative to get his hands on it and promote it to the world?

    Yes, most clickbank items are focused towards 'Making Money Online'. But how many are worth the money you spend on them? How much of that information is FREE if you are willing to spend the time looking for it?

    Instead of asking "What do the GURU's know that I don't". Start asking, 'What can I do that others will find helpful, and how can I profit from it?"
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Not all products will be found on Clickbank, either. There are far more out on the web than the comparatively few that are listed there. You can't judge all "gurus" or all marketers by what you see at one affiliate network.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
    Some are looking to mislead you, some actually want to help you and all want to sell to you!

    The REAL guru's are the ones that are teaching you to do it but also doing it themselves.

    Time will either expose you or promote you <-- Best quote EVER
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    • Profile picture of the author MatthewM
      I don't think everyone is out to mislead newbies, its just newbies are an easier sell than trying to sell to an established marketer and an common intermediate marketer has all the knowledge necessary to create ebook that would be beneficial to newbies. Even providing some basic marketing techniques in a guide for newbies can set them miles ahead.

      Whats ethically lacking in many cases is the techniques that are used to get newbies attention. Like Make $500 A Day In 2 Weeks. A statement like that is simply is not true based on the fact that maybe only a fraction of a percentage, if any at all who purchase could achieve such a thing.

      Honestly newbies should shop in the WSO section. Some of the guides here written by semi successful Internet marketers put even the gurus to shame.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jaymark
      I think the Make Money Online niche is so active since there are so many people out there who keep searching for the next best "miracle" money making program which provides for instant wealth with zero effort. The Gurus know that and simply cater to the market demand. It seems that whenever I see a new launch and a bunch of the Gurus jump on board to promote it, it is for the latest and greatest money making or traffic generating program and not a book on how to clear up your blemishes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    My biggest income stream in IM has nothing to do with selling make money online stuff. It's about physical product sites and non-IM information sites that get me Adsense clicks and affiliate commissions.

    What happens along the way, though, if you start down that kind of path, is you learn all kinds of useful stuff that can be applied to many IM-related areas. So I think it's natural to move into IM info product selling and related activities.

    What I don't like is when someone skips the first step (figuring out personally what works and what's nonsense) and just starts selling IM products and services without knowing if what they're passing on actually works. That's unethical, imho.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author wbeil48
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      My biggest income stream in IM has nothing to do with selling make money online stuff. It's about physical product sites and non-IM information sites that get me Adsense clicks and affiliate commissions.

      What happens along the way, though, if you start down that kind of path, is you learn all kinds of useful stuff that can be applied to many IM-related areas. So I think it's natural to move into IM info product selling and related activities.

      What I don't like is when someone skips the first step (figuring out personally what works and what's nonsense) and just starts selling IM products and services without knowing if what they're passing on actually works. That's unethical, imho.

      John
      That last paragraph of yours truly says it all, John. I couldn't agree more.

      It's a real tragedy, both financially and emotionally, for a newbie (or anyone, for that matter) to put his trust and hard-earned money on the line with some IM'er's con job sales letter that uses NLP or so-called hypnotic writing simply to sucker someone into buying from them.

      I firmly believe that if you are to be successful in this business you MUST believe in the product you're promoting with all your heart and soul. I don't care what it is...'Make Money' products or anything else, for that matter, should be promoted ethically and fairly and because the marketer truly believes in the product itself.

      Believe me, I speak from experience on the newbie side of things! Just remember one thing: It's very difficult to establish a good reputation in this business, but oh so easy to lose it due to unethical practices.

      I don't know about you, but I like to be able to sleep at night!
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    My biggest list, believe it or not, is in the health niche.
    I was just looking at your ezine articles and found that 99% of your articles are also on IM and you have a giveaway also...

    Then how come you made a list in health niche ,Sir
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

      I was just looking at your ezine articles and found that 99% of your articles are also on IM and you have a giveaway also...

      Then how come you made a list in health niche ,Sir
      You are not going to be able to tell by going to EZA how many articles Steven has or which niches. For most people, you won't be able to tell because EZA allows the use of pen names. Steven could have 100x more articles under pen names than he does under his own. And knowing Steven's prolific writing, that's probably a pretty close bet

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      • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        You are not going to be able to tell by going to EZA how many articles Steven has or which niches. For most people, you won't be able to tell because EZA allows the use of pen names. Steven could have 100x more articles under pen names than he does under his own. And knowing Steven's prolific writing, that's probably a pretty close bet

        Tina
        How do you use a pen name in Ezine Articles. I am looking for it right now but can't find it...???
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        • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
          Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

          How do you use a pen name in Ezine Articles. I am looking for it right now but can't find it...???
          Nevermind, I found it...duh...
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

      Then how come you made a list in health niche ,Sir
      Steven can tell you best, if he wants to.

      But why wouldn't he? It's just a good business idea to diversify
      and enter other markets. There's nothing unusual about it.

      Also consider that there are people who start off in non-IM,
      become successful, and then they enter IM because they've
      learned how to do it. That also is not unusual.

      I believe John (Zeus) was talking about that in his post.


      Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
      A lot of IM products are written by people like that. Some people's first ever website is a site about how to make money online. Some people's only business is a site or blog about how to make money online. Whether that's misleading depends on the contents of their product I guess, but if they're teaching you how to promote CPA offers and they have never made money from one, then obviously that's misleading. And there are definitely products like that.

      So I wouldn't buy a product without first looking around for reviews to see if people have actually had success with the material in the ebook/product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

      I was just looking at your ezine articles and found that 99% of your articles are also on IM and you have a giveaway also...

      Then how come you made a list in health niche ,Sir
      Actually, one of my pen names was exposed recently at this forum, which I
      didn't appreciate. I have several pen names in several niches outside of IM.

      In fact, I would prefer to get out of the IM niche altogether one day simply
      because selling to "regular" people (no offense to your IMers) is a lot easier.

      There is less hassle with product support for one thing. Most people outside
      of the IM niche buy the product and that's the last you hear of them. They
      don't expect you to hold their hand through every step of the process for
      a $17 ebook.

      Honestly, it's not worth the aggravation.

      I get more refunds and serial refunders in the IM niche.
      I get more support issues.
      I work harder in it.

      Makes me wonder if I should just have my head examined as to why I
      even bother.

      But you know what? People are going to believe what they want to
      believe...and you know why?

      Because it validates their perception of this industry, which granted needs
      a lot of cleaning up, but isn't filled with a bunch of crooks and con artists.

      I just recently helped a student get her site to number 2 at Google. She
      said she learned more in a week from me than in all the time before I took
      her on as a student. And she's NOT in the IM niche.

      She's a member here so maybe if she wants, she'll chime in and back up
      what I'm saying.

      We're not all brain dead zombies who can't do anything else but sell "how
      to make money" books because we can't make money doing anything else.

      I enjoy helping people who WANT to learn and are a PLEASURE to work
      with.

      What I DON'T enjoy is having to deal with people who:

      1. Think the world owes them a living.
      2. Don't believe a damn thing anybody says.
      3. Are too lazy to do the work required to be successful.
      4. Lie, cheat and steal to get what they want.

      And MOST of that stuff is IN the IM niche.

      I wonder why?

      End of rant.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        2. Don't believe a damn thing anybody says.
        To be fair, that may be a learned behavior. There are enough bad apples that help to create that attitude.

        Take this forum for example. I don't know how many times I've seen people respond to threads with authoritative-sounding statements that they present as the gospel truth as to something such as how to make money online. Then, a month or two later, you'll see those very same people posting a thread confessing they haven't made a dime online and they're giving up or begging for help or whatever.

        And, they'll probably have something in their signature about "How to make $100 a day!" or some such thing.

        And you need to discount what they've said in the past about making money online, because you can no longer trust their statements. If someone comes along and repeats what they said, even if it is correct, it's going to raise a red flag.

        It just becomes another hurdle an honest seller has to overcome, simply because of what a few bad apples may have caused.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    Where is the real money...???????????:confused:

    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    Hi,

    The real money is all around you. It's good to look around a bit more
    and try to avoid drawing too many conclusions from just one place
    such as CB. Although it is understandable why that's easy to do.

    Your second question...

    There are all kinds of situations and people who have made millions
    from non-IM "info" products. Just one example is the guy who has
    been selling training/tutorial CDs related to computers and computer
    apps. Can't remember his name, but I've seen his ads all over the place
    and on TV.

    There are tons of examples around if you look for them.


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author wbeil48
      KenThompson {quote}
      The real money is all around you. It's good to look around a bit more
      and try to avoid drawing too many conclusions from just one place
      such as CB. Although it is understandable why that's easy to do.

      Yeah, I definitely agree with that, Ken!
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  • Profile picture of the author jclz3d
    Take everything you read from gurus with a pinch of salt. IMO it's best to try things out for free first before you buy anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by jclz3d View Post

    Take everything you read from gurus with a pinch of salt. IMO it's best to try things out for free first before you buy anything.

    Go try to buy a Mc Donalds franchise with that logic and see how far you get.

    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    I was just looking at clickbank's marketplace and found 70% of the Info products are on based on "Make Money Online" and they have the great gravities.....

    Where as most of the ebooks tell us that make sale in niches like debt,ex back.....etc

    They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......

    When I looked at JV section 90% of marketers have list of Internet marketing...

    Where is the real money...???????????:confused:
    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    I had a successful wso last week. Not ashamed to tell you.

    I would assume that many of the people who bought it did so for the purpose rewriting it and rehashing the info Im sure... I dont care, Im just sharing knowledge... you cant be me, so you arent really my competition at being me... the people who buy you are a different market, they probably wouldnt have responded to me anyway. Real marketers knows that and dont fear competition. So I think you are generalizing and only small minded people try to "hide" the real MMO secrets.

    Money is made by giving and sharing.

    If I personally make money selling a MMO Reprt, Im gonna tell EVERYBODY about it...and encourage everyone to do it. Competition is nothing, in fact if they dont know what they are talking about they are only gonna make me more of an authority anyway!

    Example:

    I will tell you right now and can prove it that I made $2,000 doing it. First thing I did was go to Alexa and say "with you great writing why arent you doing this"?

    Abundant people "share secrets" not "try to hide them" Thats a scarcity mindset that even causes you to be paranoid that thats the case. In fact it makes perfect sense that the MMO niche is alot harder than other niches because you are competing with stronger marketers... SO THATS WHY THE COACHES DONT ENCOURAGE IT!

    I can tell you I made 2 grand of my wso, but I still dont advise it as the greatest way to make money for most people, (unless writing is your passion and you have experience making money at something...) because this wso hasnt made me as much as other things... I made a hell of alot more writing songs, liquidating stocklots, and selling offline services... if I write a report showing people how to do those things, it doesn't mean I think writing reports is the best way to make money.

    In closing, if a guy makes a little money sharing what he knows, doesn't mean he's HIDING THE REAL SECRET...

    I can tell you right now that one of my students right here on the forum made 10 TIMES more money last week taking my advice than what I made giving it to him, but giving it to him was my pleasure.

    Success = "pleasure".
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamian
    There are many of Guru titled newbie milkers out there but not all of them are same. They just happens to succeeded in many different niches and eventually it all comes down to how to make money online category in order to teach someone wants to learn IM-ing and its becomes easier to implement it on any other niches.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Yes, yes they are.

    Scamming, cheating, thieving dirty scoundrels!!!

    I think we should expose them all.
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    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      Yes, yes they are.

      Scamming, cheating, thieving dirty scoundrels!!!

      I think we should expose them all.
      Thanks Jay. A well needed laugh for today.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    People come here to WF for one reason: To learn IM. So why not be grateful to those who teach it, instead of hating?

    If you really dont believe that people really make money selling offline services for example, when there are offline businesses all around you who own websites...,and that these report writers just sell books to mislead newbies and there's no real money in it... Im so sorry but you are too ignorant to succeed anyway!
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    People come here to WF for one reason: To learn IM. So why not be grateful to those who teach it, instead of hating?
    Yeah Dude you are right...I am greatful to members and believe me WF is where I respect people not like DP where I think reside the most mad bunch of people(Exceptions are always)


    Steven Wagenheim Sir,After I whole conversation I came to know many a things and believe Me I never had a intention to blame any IM..



    If you really dont believe that people really make money selling offline services for example, when there are offline businesses all around you who own websites...,and that these report writers just sell books to mislead newbies and there's no real money in it... Im so sorry but you are too ignorant to succeed anyway!
    I think you are too fast in making wrong predictions about fellow people...Me sorry too
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  • Profile picture of the author patadeperro
    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    I was just looking at clickbank's marketplace and found 70% of the Info products are on based on "Make Money Online" and they have the great gravities.....

    Where as most of the ebooks tell us that make sale in niches like debt,ex back.....etc

    They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......

    When I looked at JV section 90% of marketers have list of Internet marketing...

    Where is the real money...???????????:confused:
    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    The make money online niche is very profitable, because many people is buying stuffs there right now, but as many people have told you in this threat there is money in every niche you just have to look for a problem people is having and give them the solution example:

    I create a huge list in the financial industry because of the "crisis" I offer them debt relief products.

    The health industry is huge, because many people are trying to loose weight and there are thousands of solutions out there.

    Other niches not as trendy, but very profitable are info products related to
    diseases, like ebooks explaining how to cure eczemas or headaches or things like that, remember, firs look for the problem then, bring the solution, there are many ways to solve a problem
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  • Profile picture of the author Teravel
    Steven,
    Well spoken as always. If the IM niche is such a hassle, perhaps your time could be better spent on other projects. This may be your time to change your direction, and focus more on your other Niches. Take your own advice, and get out while you can! Lower your stress and workload, and put that energy towards your passions. We already know you'll succeed. You have so far, and you have given some amazing information that we can all learn from.

    imgoogle,
    Although its not always possible to be loved, it is very important to avoid being hated. ~Machiavelli
    This is important because fellow warriors deserve respect for the information that they share (When it is honest and useful information and not regurgitated crap). It is also important to remember when marketing because you want your readers to learn from you, and respect you. Giving bad information, leading someone to a bad deal, or outright lying is a good way to give yourself a bad name. Getting a bad name is easy. Fixing a bad name isn't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      The most profound thing I first learned about Internet Marketing is this, "There is a huge highly profitable world outside of the MMO niche and once you tap into it, you will be paid handsomely!"

      Marketing outside of the MMO niche is almost like marketing outside of the US. Most Americans have no clue of the amount of money and GNP being generated and distributed outside of the US. AND, most IMers have no idea of the amount of income being generated outside of the MMO niche.

      Personally, I own a number of hot domains in the MMO niche but have yet to develop them simply because of the immense opportunities available elsewhere.

      To your question, "Are Gurus misleading Noobs?"

      I defer to what Steven said because he nailed it...

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      ...selling to "regular" people (no offense to your IMers) is a lot easier.

      There is less hassle with product support for one thing. Most people outside of the IM niche buy the product and that's the last you hear of them. They don't expect you to hold their hand through every step of the process for a $17 ebook.
      Holding their hand is a monumental understatement! They want you to do the work for them!

      Too many noobs get taken advantage of because they are looking to buy that secret never released ever elusive magical MMO pill that requires:
      • NO work
      • NO investment
      • NO time
      • NO effort
      • NO experience
      • NO website
      • NO SEO work
      • NO PPC ads
      • NO article marketing
      • NO RSS Feeds
      • NO Backlink building
      • NO Search engine needed
      Oh, and this little known secret is going to instantly produce floods of traffic and income - moments after purchasing a $17.00 or $37.00 ebook.

      C'mon, honestly, what type of people believe those types of advertisements?

      Giles, the Crew Chief
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

        To your question, "Are Gurus misleading Noobs?"

        Too many noobs get taken advantage of because they are looking to buy that secret never released ever elusive magical MMO pill that requires:
        • NO work
        • NO investment
        • NO time
        • NO effort
        • NO experience
        • NO website
        • NO SEO work
        • NO PPC ads
        • NO article marketing
        • NO RSS Feeds
        • NO Backlink building
        • NO Search engine needed
        Oh, and this little known secret is going to instantly produce floods of traffic and income - moments after purchasing a $17.00 or $37.00 ebook.

        C'mon, honestly, what type of people believe those types of advertisements?

        Giles, the Crew Chief
        This sums it up perfectly. Newbies ... this is what you are looking for (most of you) and this is precisely why it is being created and marketed .... because there's a market for it.

        When you go to the WSO section, do you buy:

        A) Make 5,000 in Two Days With This Cash Sucking ... blah blah blah

        or

        B) I have a business plan that will require you to work hard and learn some new stuff, but will pay large full-time dividends for the long haul. Are you interested in building a real business?

        I already know which WSO will sell and which won't, and it makes no difference to newbies that A is pure BS and B has a solid business plan enclosed.

        What you guys want is the outrageous claims, the fast big bucks with hardly any work involved.

        Does it surprise you that with such a large market of people all wanting the same dream, that there are people willing to market to that crowd?

        Be smart. If you're serious about making a living online, you're going to need to make the blueprint yourself. Find out what you want to do and perfect it. Stop chasing dreams.
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        • Profile picture of the author DogScout
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          This sums it up perfectly. Newbies ... this is what you are looking for (most of you) and this is precisely why it is being created and marketed .... because there's a market for it.

          When you go to the WSO section, do you buy:

          A) Make 5,000 in Two Days With This Cash Sucking ... blah blah blah

          or

          B) I have a business plan that will require you to work hard and learn some new stuff, but will pay large full-time dividends for the long haul. Are you interested in building a real business?

          I already know which WSO will sell and which won't, and it makes no difference to newbies that A is pure BS and B has a solid business plan enclosed.

          What you guys want is the outrageous claims, the fast big bucks with hardly any work involved.

          Does it surprise you that with such a large market of people all wanting the same dream, that there are people willing to market to that crowd?

          Be smart. If you're serious about making a living online, you're going to need to make the blueprint yourself. Find out what you want to do and perfect it. Stop chasing dreams.

          Everyone love the lie. The bigger the better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Are the IM Gurus misleading Newbie......????
    ...written as if there's a grand conspiracy.

    Sure, some are misleading people, some are not. You can't just lump people together and make a judgment about them as a group. For something to be 'misleading' someone has to do the misleading. SomeONE, not EVERYone.

    So the answer is no -- they are not misleading the newbie because there is no central authority issuing marching orders to the gurus as a whole. Specific people may be, but not all gurus.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Some gurus are in niches other than IM. Frank Kern was in dog training niche. There are a couple gurus who are in self help and NLP niches. Majority of clickbank products are about making money online but there are loads of people out there who sell their own products, and they don't sell thru clickank. I know of 2 people in relationship/dating niche who sell simple txt ebooks for like $30. Not even pdf! just txt, and they have big responsive lists. They sell dvd programs and interviews with other relationship experts as well. One of them explicitly targets single women who are unsuccessful at finding a guy for serious relationship. These people are making a killing by selling to desparate single women living in urban environment and burned out with the dating scene players. There are a lot of opportunities out there, and clickbank is definitely only the tip of the iceberg.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    I love the Internet Marketing niche, and yes I make money doing it as well - but the thing here is your classing everyone who makes products with high grav or just top products in the im niche, as a guru. Well, what exactly is a guru - how come we class certain people as that. Why can't we class people as product creators or whatever they are. I'm not going to claim to be a guru guy, or be a genius at anything and I never will.

    In fact, if I become a millionaire, I still don't want to be called a guru.

    If this post is written badly. I apologize, I am still getting used to my blackberry

    Caleb
    Signature

    Caleb Spilchen

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      I love the Internet Marketing niche, and yes I make money doing it as well - but the thing here is your classing everyone who makes products with high grav or just top products in the im niche, as a guru. Well, what exactly is a guru - how come we class certain people as that. Why can't we class people as product creators or whatever they are. I'm not going to claim to be a guru guy, or be a genius at anything and I never will.

      In fact, if I become a millionaire, I still don't want to be called a guru.

      If this post is written badly. I apologize, I am still getting used to my blackberry

      Caleb

      Soon you wont be able to live without it! balckberries make IM life alot easier... at least you can take your email box everywhere you go in your pocket now, and it will alert you whenever you get one and you can respond on the spot.
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      • Profile picture of the author KevL
        I certainly agree with above comments about the WM niche being a harder niche to make money in.

        Also I don't think it's fair to say that all "Guru's" advise that you to "make sales in niches like debt,ex back.....etc"

        or that "They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......"

        There are plenty of products out there by "Guru's" - (I know, it's not a very nice word but it's easier than typing "very successful web marketers" ) that do cover selling to the newcomer market - and there are many which deal with selling within the WM niche, but I think it's better advice to look for Other Niches.

        When you look at a niche based on supply & demand - there are WAY better niches out there. And as others have rightly pointed out, in other niche's it's just a transaction - in the WM niche, some people buy a $27 product & seem to think that you're now married to them!! ;-)

        For example - I've just picked up a niche from doing some research including Ebay UK research, and I've found a product, with low enough supply to get on page one of google for just with a keyword rich domain & some content writing, which is getting serious demand - with thousands of units of this exact product sold on Google uk in the last 30 days - and it's a product I can just sell via amazon affiliates - no hassle, no hand holding, no refunds.......

        Cheers

        Kev
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        SEO Kev
        Small business SEO / Web Marketing Tips.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
      OMG a 15 year old kid with a Blackberry lol, he'll never be off the internet now!!!

      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      I love the Internet Marketing niche, and yes I make money doing it as well - but the thing here is your classing everyone who makes products with high grav or just top products in the im niche, as a guru. Well, what exactly is a guru - how come we class certain people as that. Why can't we class people as product creators or whatever they are. I'm not going to claim to be a guru guy, or be a genius at anything and I never will.

      In fact, if I become a millionaire, I still don't want to be called a guru.

      If this post is written badly. I apologize, I am still getting used to my blackberry

      Caleb
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  • Profile picture of the author steve48135
    Again, The "guru's" make money by having their OWN products and they promote their OWN products heavily. They have "guru" friends who they work with and they promote each other's products. It's a win-win for THEM and a constant lose for YOU if you never figure out the REAL secret. HAVE YOUR OWN PRODUCTS!!!. Not resell rights, not plr. %100 unique products of your very own.

    I have a very rich cousin in-law in internet marketing and he has his own products, he didn't even know how clickbank worked until a year or two ago. The guru's dont make money by promoting others(unless they JV) By the way, when I say rich I'm talking lotto money, 10 mil a year guys. I can't stress enough how much you need to have your own line of products.

    Why promote for others? Be the supplier!

    If you can't make your own product then be the contractor, and have it outsourced.


    And yes they do make and sell products "teaching" people how to make money, %5 of those people actually follow through with it. The rest just fade away, which is what they want. You havnt even seen the richest of the marketers, they don't hang around on Warrior Forum trust me.
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    Are the IM Gurus misleading Newbie......???? ...written as if there's a grand conspiracy.
    No Nothing like Dear....I just wanted to say all in one line

    You havnt even seen the richest of the marketers, they don't hang around on Warrior Forum trust me.
    Well May be......May be not......

    Although its not always possible to be loved, it is very important to avoid being hated.
    This is important because fellow warriors deserve respect for the information that they share (When it is honest and useful information and not regurgitated crap).
    No one likes to be hated ......So do I......
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  • Profile picture of the author Harold Lindsey
    I wonder has anyone every experience this;

    A couple of years ago, like a lot of people I was just doing my own affiliate marketing thing, and I happened on this little technique to capitalizes on 'Guru Launches'. So, I said to myself, "Yeah, I'm going to try this one out." I waited for a popular launch, and then I went into action. I didn't buy, order, even ask for a review copy from Guru doing the launch. Of course it was a 'How to make a money on the internet product' , but i didn't care. I just wanted to apply the technique.

    What was the technique? simple, and by now I'm sure a lot of people know about it; Just buy a few domains names of the miss-spelling of the product name. And create a redirect to the merchant's site, via your affiliate link. That's it.

    And on launch day, for a few days after that I watched my Clickbank account rise. Hey, I didn't get rich, but I did make some pretty good money for few days.

    Now why am I telling you all this? It's because later I found out that the product and upsells were crap! And I felt like a real sleaze ball marketer for having been a part of that particular launch. Sometimes you can cross the fence... and not even realize it.

    Now I do check out every product and the person behind it....(Closely).
    Even if you are not a quote-un-quote guru, you can still push good, reputable products. It's up to you what side of the fence that you want to market from.
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    What was the technique? simple, and by now I'm sure a lot of people know about it; Just buy a few domains names of the miss-spelling of the product name. And create a redirect to the merchant's site, via your affiliate link. That's it.
    Thanks for technique
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    It just becomes another hurdle an honest seller has to overcome, simply because of what a few bad apples may have caused.
    You are 100% right Dude.....
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  • Profile picture of the author rparikh
    I think very few of click bank product related to IM is worth .

    The so called gurus are really misleading .They are kind a genius in writing sales page or hired the smart copy-writer .

    Very few are the genuine and honest IM guru .The best thing is i always like to go to read the reviews from the warrior forum 's product reviews section and get ideas before buy any product .
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    Internet Marketing Product Reviews And Bonus - https://theim.org

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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    .........Where is the real money...???????????:confused:

    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    The overwhelming majority of successful IMers sell non-IM products. Those that sell to the MMO niche are a tiny spec in the overall internet marketing world. And an even smaller spec in the overall marketing arena.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author BizmanJoe
    What I have learned is that most IM Gurus leave out pertinent information in their products. I have spent thousand$ to educate myself and found most products only provided how to gather crumbs, not provide meat on the table. Also found many so-called "gurus" intentionally mislead. Case in point: If you guys recall the StomperNET fiasco where differences of opinion of its member gurus led to serious dissension. I have learned that the dissension was based on how much information to reveal and how much to keep to themselves.
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    www.infosecrets.net
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      First, let me say that not all "Gurus" are "Newbie Milkers", and not all "Newbie Milkers" are "Gurus".

      Having said that...

      "Newbie Milkers" can't do it on their own. It takes 2 sides to complete the transaction(s).

      Once someone gets control of their emotions (rather than letting their emotions control them & their actions), the "Newbie Milkers" are powerless.


      Thinking objectively, making a plan, and being accountable are NOT optional.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    I have learned that the dissension was based on how much information to reveal and how much to keep to themselves.
    Well that it .......Its in mind of 90% on IM in MMO niche...
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  • There's a lot of garbage out there, and frankly at times I get disgusted by it. I don't blame newbies a bit for feeling skeptical about a lot of what they're being pitched.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Lange
    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    I was just looking at clickbank's marketplace and found 70% of the Info products are on based on "Make Money Online" and they have the great gravities.....

    Where as most of the ebooks tell us that make sale in niches like debt,ex back.....etc

    They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......

    When I looked at JV section 90% of marketers have list of Internet marketing...

    Where is the real money...???????????:confused:
    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    There is no question that there is a lot of money to be made in "make money from home niche" however, it is EXTREMELY competitive and over saturated. For someone to make money in this niche you would need very deep pockets for sure.

    To get on the first of page of Yahoo using "work from home" keyword costs upwards of $1.80 per click most of the time. Do the math, that adds up fast!!!

    There are many other profitable niches that do not require such extensive resources.
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  • Profile picture of the author mookinman
    I haven't been active on this forum for 18 months, but I've been sniffing around again lately. I'm glad to see my favourite poster Mr. Steven Wagenheim is still kicking ass!
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  • Profile picture of the author mryan1
    There is so much crap that gets released in the wso area. I made a wso about a year ago and I was trying out something that I bought, the trifilliate payday (worst money I have ever spent!) and I was trying to make it work quick and without alot of effort. It sucked and the wso got flamed. So, I think that somehow the wso's need to be policed better and promote their own stuff. I didn't and I got flamed!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mryan1 View Post

      There is so much crap that gets released in the wso area. I made a wso about a year ago and I was trying out something that I bought, the trifilliate payday (worst money I have ever spent!) and I was trying to make it work quick and without alot of effort.!
      Maybe that is your problem? Nah, everything should be quick and not much effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    I have a blog in the Internet marketing - Make money online niche that I work extremely hard on I have a lot of posts on the subject. I personally do it because I love this niche, I taught myself everything from scratch 5 years ago and I like to post on these topics. I have a passion for the subject and that is what it takes to succeed online. I have brought my blog that is a little over a year old to a 120,000 Alexa rating and moving down fast using all free methods. No traffic exchanges, or dirty tricks just plain old fashioned hard work and knowledge. I have done this all in my spare time while working a 9 to 5. I don't like to be tied to the computer all day lol.

    But my point is people should be grateful to hard working affiliates, and Internet marketers who basically spill their guts to tell you what they learned by their own trial@errors. I do not have to their are other profitable niches out there. I do it because I want to and I actually enjoy it. That is what is gonna make you successful those 2 key ingredients.

    I never mention anything about getting Rich quick on my blog their is no such thing unless you hit the lottery, or your rich uncle dies and gives you all his money. Anybody that says you can get rich quick especially if your new, is a lying cheat and they should be arrested. I always say work hard, learn how to be a successful affiliate, or Internet marketer. And do not forget to build a mailing list. Those are the 3 key ingredients to success. I do write about product reviews too but their is no one holding a gun to your head saying buy this. Their is a 60 day return policy so the customer is protected, if they do not like the product. It is a business and to be successful you have to treat it as such.

    And just because someone is in the Internet marketing- or make money online niche does not mean they are scammers. After all you are all here to learn how to make money online one way or the other regardless of the niche. You do not have to buy any E-books to be successful, it will take you longer but it is not mandatory. Be grateful for those of us out their who provide this kind of service because once you learn how to make money online you can take that experience anywhere with you even a job in the field in SEO, Internet marketing etc...

    You can apply it to whatever niche you are in it does not matter now you have the know how. They are even offering degree programs in the Internet marketing field at some local colleges by me. It is a huge multi-billion dollar business.


    If someone is a known scammer stay clear. This forum is about Internet marketing is it a scam? Hell no! It is the best forum online bar none no other forum even comes close. And you are here why? You either teach people how to make money online, or you want to learn how to make money online. Don't bite the hand that is gonna essentially feed you one day if you are a beginner. Take all the free advice, and tips that you can get, and apply it to your own online business.

    There are a lot of good people out there. We do not want to be labeled as fraudsters just because we are in a particular niche. I will leave it at that!

    Learn, Learn, Learn. Find a subject your passionate about, and work very hard, and you will be successful regardless of the niche. If you enjoy what your doing the sky is the limit!
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    Originally Posted by imgoogle View Post

    I was just looking at clickbank's marketplace and found 70% of the Info products are on based on "Make Money Online" and they have the great gravities.....

    Where as most of the ebooks tell us that make sale in niches like debt,ex back.....etc

    They do not tell us to make money be selling to newbies......

    When I looked at JV section 90% of marketers have list of Internet marketing...

    Where is the real money...???????????:confused:
    I mean are there rich marketers who make money by info product on dealing to Non-IM products???
    Have you looked at the offers with the highest EPC on CPA networks? You will hardly find a bizopp offer. Health, insurance, debt, dating, etc are more likely to appear.

    So, yes, there is a lot of money to be made out there and IM is just a small piece of the pie.


    William
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  • Profile picture of the author Gavin Abeyratne
    Here's an idea:

    How about using your head?

    Are you seriously asking whether the only "real" money on the net is made in the 'make money online' niche?

    Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

    Cmon, I know you're smarter than that.

    Have you heard of the Google Keyword Tool?

    Check out some of these keywords:

    Wedding Speeches
    Weight Loss
    Muscle Building
    Learning Piano
    Learning Languages
    Gardening
    Cooking
    Building Chicken Coops (yes)
    Web Hosting

    These are HUGE markets, with advertisers paying, in some cases, DOLLARS per click. These advertisers aren't going bankrupt either, and none of these markets have anything to do with money at all.

    There are AFFILIATES in the web hosting niche making 100k a month.

    There are product owners in the weight loss niches doing 1 million dollars a month, and more.

    Fat Loss 4 idiots did $28.8 million in its first year for example. Thats just over 2 million a month. The site looks like it was made with ClipArt from the mid 90s for pete's sake...

    Even when we niche down, there are still examples of 'real' money.

    Ryan Deiss gave an example of a membership site owner with 2000 subscribers at $9.95 per month.....

    Thats $20k per month, just shy of a quarter of a million dollars per year.

    Guess what the site was?

    It was a membership site for PASTORS.

    Men of God.

    Quarter mill a year.

    Do you want to know why Gurus love the MMO niche?

    Because its full of people that want to believe there is something they don't know. That someone is holding something back from them.

    They believe that making money SURELY can't be as simple as, "creating something of value and then selling it."

    Thats why there are so many lists in the Biz Op market, because people keep on buying product after product after product instead of facing up to their own inability to do anything.

    Then they come on forums and assume that no money exists in the world if it doesn't have a high gravity on Clickbank.

    And btw, gravity on Clickbank is determined by how many affiliates have managed to sell the product, not based on actual sales volume.

    So the reason that those MMO products have such high gravity, is that all the cheeky biz op seekers think they'll be clever and use their own Clickbank affiliate links. The product owners don't even care because they price accordingly.

    Look mate, you've received a real slapping today in this thread.

    But make a decision today to not make excuses for your lack of success, we've all been there.

    Stop looking for instructions on how to make money and think for a second about how you would do it.

    Be proactive, think about it, and you will succeed.

    All the best
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  • Profile picture of the author mnonline
    In the world of Internet Marketing, there are much to learn. Maybe some info products are too advance for beginners. I believe that the purpose is right but the methods people applied is wrong. Maybe people didn't understand the concepts throughly. It did took me a while to actually get the most out of those ebooks.

    At first i didn't understand anything, most of it. After reading many strategies and reread it, some great ideas actually popped up on my mind. I actually unlocked some potential about make money online, or internet marketing. Whatever you want to call it.

    Studying business course online or offline is about the same. You still need to learn. You need to master the skill required(well am i right?). I think the advantage for online business is that it actually take less time than learning business course in college and flexible hours too. It cost less money. To me it is convenient.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kerryrus
    To the best of my knowledge there are only 3 markets you need to concern yourself with and all of them are multi-billion niches:

    #1 Wealth
    #2 Health
    #3 Lifestyle

    Obviously each market has loads of niches to choose from and I suppose it then comes down to personal preference.
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  • Profile picture of the author imgoogle
    Learn, Learn, Learn. Find a subject your passionate about, and work very hard, and you will be successful regardless of the niche. If you enjoy what your doing the sky is the limit!
    Thats True........
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