Article Writing Outsourcing... why is it so difficult?

rmolina88

14 years ago

Just go to the Warriors For Hire forum and find article writers there. I've gotten some good results so far.

Thanks

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tpw

14 years ago

Outsourcing article writing is a challenge that I have taken for more than 8 years and is not any easier than it was when I started...

Most people who claim to be writers do so, only because they think it will be easy money... But then you give them the job, and they never start it, because it is actually real work...

In the eight years I have tried outsourcing, I have found that fewer than 3% of those asking for the writing job will actually write the article... And 2 of the 3 who actually do the work will quit in a couple weeks...

You have simply got to find someone who has a group of writers working for them, someone who has mastered the management of the most unreliable element of the marketplace -- wannabe writers...

Thanks

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Willie Crawford

14 years ago

I not difficult to find good writers to outsource to although
I've found that you get what you pay for, so if you're looking
for quality, don't plan on going with the cheapest writers.

There are some very talented writers who advertise here
on the forum, but I've also purchased articles via WSO before
that WERE so bad that I just deleted them.

Ask to see samples of their work... although that is not even
foolproof since a person could show you someone else's work.

Willie

Thanks
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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

I not difficult to find good writers to outsource to although
I've found that you get what you pay for, so if you're looking
for quality, don't plan on going with the cheapest writers.

There are some very talented writers who advertise here
on the forum, but I've also purchased articles via WSO before
that WERE so bad that I just deleted them.

Ask to see samples of their work... although that is not even
foolproof since a person could show you someone else's work.

Willie

Willie,

I have taken the ghost writing off of TPW for now...

I can sell it all day long, but I have such a hard time delivering it reliably...

If I were to limit my sales to X number of articles per month, I would be fine... But without limits, I often get overwhelmed when my outsourced people cannot deliver specific topics for me...

There is nothing worse for me than finding myself at the deadline, with no usable content to send to my client...

Thanks
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Willie Crawford

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Willie,

I have taken the ghost writing off of TPW for now...

I can sell it all day long, but I have such a hard time delivering it reliably...

If I were to limit my sales to X number of articles per month, I would be fine... But without limits, I often get overwhelmed when my outsourced people cannot deliver specific topics for me...

There is nothing worse for me than finding myself at the deadline, with no usable content to send to my client...

I know what you mean. I'm constantly up against deadlines on various
projects. It keeps life exciting :-)

Willie

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kos818 14 years ago

Hi Lucky,

when it comes to outsourcing your article writing, you might go with a rather expensive writer! This is what I figured out. The less you pay, the less quality you'll get. As mentioned above I would also go with the "for hire" section. Have a close look for the testimonials and don't hesitate to contact previous customers via PM, as they might have a more diverted opinion when they aren't in public. You might know that you are sometimes more likely to leave some nice testimonial, but changed your mind afterwards ;-)

IMHO their are two kinds of PLR:
1) The cheap ones that are available for years and that need a major re-write
and
2) The great ones, sold only with a limited amount and without a [yes] can sell PLR...

I go with the first all the time and it saves huge amounts of time and money. That's for sure!

As said, I would have a close look here on the forum for fellow warriors offering their services.

Pay peanuts and you MIGHT get monkeys. It takes time to find the golden nuggets here and everywhere else, but you already took action and will build a list of reliable freelancers (this is what we are talking about IMHO) for sure!

To your success
cheers
Sven
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Nothing to sell...
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Lucky500

14 years ago

Have any of you guys tried to hire someone from outside the Internet Marketing world? I don't perhaps put an ad in a local paper or something....

Thanks
1 reply

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tpw 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucky500

Have any of you guys tried to hire someone from outside the Internet Marketing world? I don't perhaps put an ad in a local paper or something....

I have hired off of Craigslist before... That worked great for editors, but not for writers...
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Lucky500

14 years ago

I've outsourced thru Warriors for Hire and a WSO that I bought in the past...I had mixed results. I think there is no sure thing in outsourcing your writing. Sometimes you get reliable people, sometimes you don't. I think even the greatest of ghost writers get tired of writing about something that they do not have any interested in. But for me is becoming an necessary evil. I either outsource my writing or my business stay static, or even worst, I risk getting tired of IM!

Thanks

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KevL

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucky500

Okay, I finally decided to go full throttle into Internet Marketing. I have no problems in researching new keywords. I have no problem in setting up new sites, nor do I have problems in getting backlinks. But I hate writing. I know writing unique content is the soul of internet marketing, but I really would like to outsource my writing.
They say if you wanted well done, do it yourself. I hate PLR articles too, they seem fake. How did you go about outsourcing your writing? And what is working for you?

Best article writer is......MY MUM!!

Seriously, I struggled like mad trying to find decent writers, Willie - I'd love to know your secret, becuase I've only been able to find one great writer, and she was so busy as a result of the fact that she was so good, that she is booked up for months in advance now.

Good writers, you'll struggle to find any who can take on work - that's what I find anyway, those who are quick to take on the work - are usually not so quick to come up with the goods! People looking to make extra money take on the work, and then put it off - as it's hard work.

The only people I've fuond who'll put in the effort, are indian writers - and although often the English isn't bad, they just appear to have a different way of speaking - that doesn't always make sense & is often quite strange, so I had to either bin them or re-write them, and I tried quite a few.

So then - I spoke to my mum. She did English lit at college - and types at about a million miles per hour, she works full time, but now in her spare time she writes articles for me, and they're fantastic.

The only issue is that cloning isn't legal, so I'm unable to clone her & get thousands of articles written! :rolleyes:

So try asking around, friends & family - for someone who can write & wants some extra work.

Cheers

Kev

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steve48135

14 years ago

Try vworker.com formerly rentacoder. Alot of the coders there also work here. But the other sites make it easier to get things nailed down. Plus your placing your bid in front of more people who can do what you need.

Thanks

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steve48135

14 years ago

An example would be people like LisaG, she works through Vworker.com and posts here. Her feedback suggests she is one of the best, so does her ranking on Vworker. But, you may have to pay a higher price. Either way it seems like you want good content, and that my friend comes with a price when asking other people to do it.

Thanks
1 reply

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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by steve48135

An example would be people like LisaG, she works through Vworker.com and posts here. Her feedback suggests she is one of the best, so does her ranking on Vworker. But, you may have to pay a higher price. Either way it seems like you want good content, and that my friend comes with a price when asking other people to do it.

I don't know her unless that is Gergets...

Another reliable source of writing here on WF is: View Profile: TMG Enterprises

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steve48135 14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I don't know her unless that is Gergets...

Another reliable source of writing here on WF is: View Profile: TMG Enterprises

I don't know her last name, your probably right though.
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Joe Mobley

14 years ago

It is interesting how our thoughts lead us down certain paths.

Originally Posted by Lucky500

Okay, ... I know writing unique content is the soul of internet marketing...

Is it?

Joe

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myeanne

14 years ago

I recommend going to firms like outsourcing companies with a proven track record of dependability and proficiency in offering business and management services. These firms have supervisors who manage and check their staff's productivity and quality of work.

Also, I can guarantee you that the staff are formally trained, educated and instructed with only top-notch standards, leading the outsourcing industry.

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Anna_O

14 years ago

I also have not had a problem finding decent writers through the Warrior Forum. Price vary quite a bit, and I do also agree you get what you pay for, but I think results depend on 2 things:
- How much detail and article structure you give to the writer
- Your perspective and expectations

1) Do you just give the writer a keyword and let them go for it? I don't. I give the writers details about what I expect the article to cover, whether it should have subheads and bullet points, and if possible, I give them an example article (typically on another subject) to follow.

Writers are not mind readers. By having this preliminary information, they know what I expect the resulting article to be structured like and type of content it should contain. Without giving this to the writer, you could end up with any old content and it may be way off from your expectations.

2) What level of quality do you expect and do you expect to do any edits or rewriting? If you expect 100% best quality with no edits needed, you should expect to pay top dollar. For me, I would rather pay a lower price and make a few edits or rewrites to make the article my own (because I'm pretty picky and am likely to make edits to anyone's work anyway). It is much easier (for me) to revise something that is 80% there as far as content and structure than it is to start from scratch.

So ask yourself - what are your expectations when you receive the finished piece? What can you provide to the writer to ensure that your expectations will be met on the first try?

Best wishes,
Anna

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1 reply

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Lucky500

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Anna_O

I also have not had a problem finding decent writers through the Warrior Forum. Price vary quite a bit, and I do also agree you get what you pay for, but I think results depend on 2 things:
- How much detail and article structure you give to the writer
- Your perspective and expectations

1) Do you just give the writer a keyword and let them go for it? I don't. I give the writers details about what I expect the article to cover, whether it should have subheads and bullet points, and if possible, I give them an example article (typically on another subject) to follow.

Writers are not mind readers. By having this preliminary information, they know what I expect the resulting article to be structured like and type of content it should contain. Without giving this to the writer, you could end up with any old content and it may be way off from your expectations.

2) What level of quality do you expect and do you expect to do any edits or rewriting? If you expect 100% best quality with no edits needed, you should expect to pay top dollar. For me, I would rather pay a lower price and make a few edits or rewrites to make the article my own (because I'm pretty picky and am likely to make edits to anyone's work anyway). It is much easier (for me) to revise something that is 80% there as far as content and structure than it is to start from scratch.

So ask yourself - what are your expectations when you receive the finished piece? What can you provide to the writer to ensure that your expectations will be met on the first try?

Best wishes,
Anna

Thanks for the great input Anna.... (Beautiful name by the way....

, then again is my lovely sister's name, so maybe I am just a little bias about it...)

Thanks
1 reply

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DomenicoGrecojr 14 years ago

Hiring an article writer is like a company hiring a staff.

You need to interview several people and shortlist the ones who you like.

Then you interview them again and hopefully choose one of two potential candidates.

Then you interview them again and make your decision. This is what happens when applying for a job. You need to go through several job interviews.

So when you hire an article writer, you should also interview them several times.

As well as communicating to them, offer them one or two articles and look at the quality.

This interview process with an article writer is in actual fact risk-free compared to hiring in the real world.

To avoid nightmares with outsourcing, ask yourself:

1. Did you interview them properly?
2. Did you test them with one or two articles at the start?
3. Are you offering to pay the quality you're looking for?
- Thanks
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Marx Vergel Melencio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucky500

Okay, I finally decided to go full throttle into Internet Marketing. I have no problems in researching new keywords. I have no problem in setting up new sites, nor do I have problems in getting backlinks. But I hate writing. I know writing unique content is the soul of internet marketing, but I really would like to outsource my writing.
They say if you wanted well done, do it yourself. I hate PLR articles too, they seem fake. How did you go about outsourcing your writing? And what is working for you?

Initially, I recommend hiring good, reliable writers via a full time, part time or monthly retainer arrangement. This can lower down your costs and ensure you work with people determined to deliver their daily output.

Then, I suggest training them in the 5 sections below.

Section 1 = Getting and analyzing statistical data for broad niche/semibroad niche/subniche/microniche targeting, market competition research and keyword targeting.

Section 2 = Behavioral analysis techniques for micro reader group targeting, title/headline development, content outlining, content richness formatting, writing tone/style selection and content syndication/backlink building campaign planning.

Section 3 = 4 fundamental elements of writing. AIDA, 1-1 1-1 3-5-7, inverse pyramid and softsell marketing writing.

Section 4 = Content spinning and online content syndication campaign planning.

Section 5 = Online content writing and Internet content marketing.

Fundamentally, you should train them more in marketing than writing. After all, reckon you need softsell content marketers, not academic writers, so hiring Internet content marketing specialists will be best.

Also, constantly training them in being Internet content marketers reduces attrition considerably. They will see you as a friendly expert source of hard to find info and advice. Yes, just how you want your target audience to see you.

Hope this helps.

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Lucky500

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio

Initially, I recommend hiring good, reliable writers via a full time, part time or monthly retainer arrangement. This can lower down your costs and ensure you work with people determined to deliver their daily output.

Then, I suggest training them in the 5 sections below.

Section 1 = Getting and analyzing statistical data for broad niche/semibroad niche/subniche/microniche targeting, market competition research and keyword targeting.

Section 2 = Behavioral analysis techniques for micro reader group targeting, title/headline development, content outlining, content richness formatting, writing tone/style selection and content syndication/backlink building campaign planning.

Section 3 = 4 fundamental elements of writing. AIDA, 1-1 1-1 3-5-7, inverse pyramid and softsell marketing writing.

Section 4 = Content spinning and online content syndication campaign planning.

Section 5 = Online content writing and Internet content marketing.

Fundamentally, you should train them more in marketing than writing. After all, reckon you need softsell content marketers, not academic writers, so hiring Internet content marketing specialists will be best.

Also, constantly training them in being Internet content marketers reduces attrition considerably. They will see you as a friendly expert source of hard to find info and advice. Yes, just how you want your target audience to see you.

Hope this helps.

Wow Marx, I never knew writing an article was that technical!

... I guess 5 bucks for an 500 word article is not that bad....

Thanks

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necoo

14 years ago

Try vworker.com formerly rentacoder. Alot of the coders there also work here. But the other sites make it easier to get things nailed down. Plus your placing your bid in front of more people who can do what you need.

Thanks

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sundaram

14 years ago

You will have to find out writers who work for you from other freelancer sites. It is not that difficult to get the work outsourced. It is also not difficult to get writers who do it for you.

Thanks

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ArticlesThatRock

14 years ago

My article writing service sometimes gets orders for one or two articles, and this is sufficient to verify that the writers are from the USA/Canada; but the quality of an article usually depends on the research. If you give a writer 5 articles on related topics, she'll get a better idea of what you're trying to accomplish, and will conduct better research.

You can even provide some links yourself.

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grayambition

14 years ago

These threads pop up on a depressingly regular basis.

I receive occasional PM's requesting my rates. When I tell them what I charge, they are gone with the wind.

I've basically given up writing for the IM crowd. I never particularly enjoyed banging my head against a wall.

Without pointing fingers in any direction, most seem to want stellar writing for peanuts. I've seen posts proclaiming that anyone who pays $10 for an article is STOOPID, that no one should EVER pay more than $5!

And I see writers in this forum who set themselves up as "a cut above," yet when I check out their websites, their rates don't reflect the premium service they claim to provide (and probably do provide -- my intent is not to diss writers). I fear that many writers who frequent this forum have been brainwashed by the repetitive drone that repeats and repeats in your ear (my little homage to Cole Porter), telling them that writing is not a skill deserving of adequate recompense or anything approaching a living wage.

There have been many good suggestions in this thread (and in all the other threads on this topic). But here's a thought. If you think of and actually treat writers like the skilled professionals they are (at least the good ones) rather than as a commodity, you might be surprised with what you get in return.

Oh, and here's one more thought. If good writing is so easy, if anyone can do it, if it's not worth anything approaching minimum wage... then why is really good writing so scarce, and why are good writers hard to find?

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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by grayambition

These threads pop up on a depressingly regular basis.

I receive occasional PM's requesting my rates. When I tell them what I charge, they are gone with the wind.

I've basically given up writing for the IM crowd. I never particularly enjoyed banging my head against a wall.

Without pointing fingers in any direction, most seem to want stellar writing for peanuts. I've seen posts proclaiming that anyone who pays $10 for an article is STOOPID, that no one should EVER pay more than $5!

And I see writers in this forum who set themselves up as "a cut above," yet when I check out their websites, their rates don't reflect the premium service they claim to provide (and probably do provide -- my intent is not to diss writers). I fear that many writers who frequent this forum have been brainwashed by the repetitive drone that repeats and repeats in your ear (my little homage to Cole Porter), telling them that writing is not a skill deserving of adequate recompense or anything approaching a living wage.

There have been many good suggestions in this thread (and in all the other threads on this topic). But here's a thought. If you think of and actually treat writers like the skilled professionals they are (at least the good ones) rather than as a commodity, you might be surprised with what you get in return.

Oh, and here's one more thought. If good writing is so easy, if anyone can do it, if it's not worth anything approaching minimum wage... then why is really good writing so scarce, and why are good writers hard to find?

You have said what needed said so beautifully... Thank you...

Thanks

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dbarnum

14 years ago

I've listed some tips on my Warrior blog:

"4 Key Issues to Watch During an Outsourcing Trial Period"

http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/db...al-period.html

...just take your time, best advice. Even poor writers can be trained. Find your own style you like, then see how you can get that across to your writers in brief bullet points, in project summary-type guidelines (no lengthy PDF ebook now, just a 1-page overview, double-spaced with bullets for an easy read). Not all writers are willing to work towards this, but many are today.

"Seek and ye shall find...," Someone profound said that....

And price - -leave that to individuals and companies, not a forum, my humble opinion. People in all nations, even here in the USA, need funds, it's as simple as that. New moms working minutes here and there, newly released prisoners with nowhere to turn and no place hiring with their backgrounds, many students and others in all nations need work. And many super talented writers write fast and for low pay for a variety or reasons, as they work in other fields in the same manner. Judge not on the whole. Just move forward and find good fits, rewarding along the way and giving back as you can and are able

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tpw

14 years ago

One additional thought that I would like to contribute to this thread...

The quality of article that will be given to you by the outsourced writer will be a direct reflection of the quality of article guidance that you give them to start with...

You are mostly in the driver's seat...

1. I don't want you to try to sell the product for me... I want you to discuss the benefits of using such a product, and the problems that the product could solve...

(This is very important, because lots of wanna-be writers try to sell the product in the article... They misunderstand the purpose of article marketing and misconstrue it as an attempt to sell the product... As a result, they use phrases like "this product is right for you" far too often...

My view is that I will sell the product... I only need the article writer to show how my product can be used to solve a common problem...)

2. Give the writer 1-2 sentences from which to understand the desired end-article... If you give the writer a keyword to write about, he or she will beat that keyword to death and never say anything useful... If you give them a quick outline, they will do their best to match the outline you gave them...

3. If you don't give the writer a direction to take with the article, the writer will ramble for 500 words, repeating the same things over-and-over... Most people are trying so hard to give you what you want that they will never be able to give you what you want, unless they truly understand where they should go in the article...

4. It is always best to have an editor on hand to finesse what they writer has put together... A second set of eyes will make a relatively good article better...

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YseUp

14 years ago

Originally Posted by grayambition

Oh, and here's one more thought. If good writing is so easy, if anyone can do it, if it's not worth anything approaching minimum wage... then why is really good writing so scarce, and why are good writers hard to find?

Originally Posted by tpw

You are mostly in the driver's seat...

Exactly!

I do a bit of article writing, e-books etc. and people are always surprised at my rates. It's not as if I'm charging astronomical sums, just more than someone in a 3rd world country would work for. And then they go for the cheap $5 per article option and wonder why it's crap.

I also agree that the person ordering articles should be specific about what they want from an article (although I realize 99% of people want articles to send traffic back to their sales-page and warm them up for the sales-copy).

Often I'll just get a list of keywords. Not a very detailed brief!

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ArticlesThatRock

14 years ago

I've seen some Warrior writers ask for a subject and keywords, and that's sufficient to write an article. In fact, it could be excess info for article marketing. If the customer omits the subject and gives my writers the keyword, "wooden rake", the product sold by the customer, my writers can produce an article meeting the needs of the customer, including text such as:

"Gardening is a great activity that the entire family can enjoy. Your family will develop strong bonds that will last a lifetime, and you will be glad when you are 70 years old and your 45 year old daughter still finds in worthwhile to spend time with you. Many families nowadays hardly ever see each other, so be sure not to underestimate the incalculable value of a close family. Be sure to be diligent in putting away your tools when you are done. You don't want your 10 year old daughter to step on a wooden rake and break her nose, do you?"

The article might be submitted to an article directory, or as a guest post in a magazine that discusses the joys and frustrations of being a parent.

I think it would be valuable to continue the discussion of how writers and customers can interact better to economically produce an article that satisfies the customer.

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JackPowers 14 years ago

I've had the best results by far on Elance.com.

What I do is divide the outsourcing to several people. If I want articles to syndicate for backlinks then I always just go with an established company such as 99centarticles or MyArticleExpress. Those articles are clearly just rewrites from the first 10 results in Google and Ezinearticles, but they are good enough to pass editorial checks.

For my own sites, I will either write the content myself or I will look on Elance.

On Elance, I never use any of the companies with tons of customers.

What I do is make a posting were I clearly label the topic of the articles in the title. Then I look for writers who have a genuine interest in the topic. Actually I spell this out in the offer, saying that I prefer a writer with personal experience on the topic.

Several times, I have been able to get excellent work at reasonable prices.

Also, I only outsource these articles to Americans. Their work ethic, support and communication skills are by far the best I've experienced.

Work from home moms in particular are a real pleasure to do business with.
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BishopMartin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ArticlesThatRock

"Gardening is a great activity that the entire family can enjoy. Your family will develop strong bonds that will last a lifetime, and you will be glad when you are 70 years old and your 45 year old daughter still finds in worthwhile to spend time with you. Many families nowadays hardly ever see each other, so be sure not to underestimate the incalculable value of a close family. Be sure to be diligent in putting away your tools when you are done. You don't want your 10 year old daughter to step on a wooden rake and break her nose, do you?".

"daughter still finds in worthwhile to spend" I believe that should be an 'it' not an 'in'

Is this what most 'IM'ers' consider quality content?

Thanks

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Article Writing Outsourcing... why is it so difficult?

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