ENOUGH! There are only (3) Ways to Make Money - Everything Else Is Noise...

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Is anyone else getting tired of the deluge of IM products out there, none of which teach people basic business fundamentals?

The first thing that is getting to me is that you ask the average IMer what it means to "make money" and chances are they can't break it down to the core fundamentals......

First, it seems to me that a lot of people are
a) Just assuming that revenues=profits

b) not accounting for hidden costs (example labor costs which need to be factored in if you are going to scale because you can't do it all yourself...)

Where is the good old Business School 101 IM MBA Course that really needs to come out?

By that I mean:

Profits= (Revenues) - (Costs)
Revenues = (Price)*(Quantity)
Costs = (Fixed Costs) + (Variable Costs) (or average total costs)....[an important distinction that can make or break a business]
Quantity= # of units sold = (visitors)*(conversion%)
Visitors = Unique Visitors + Returning Visitors




If you are paying attention to that formula you can see that there are OBVIOUSLY ONLY (3) Ways of making money:

a) You can increase your prices
(assuming costs stay constant)

b) you can increase the number of units sold by either making repeat sales to returning visitors or new sales to unique visitors (
again, assuming costs stay constant)

c) you can decrease your costs
(here, assuming revenues stay constant)

All these gadgets and gizmos promising the stars....widgets this, super automation tool that, "outsourcing secrets" this, autoblog this, miracle content ebook that...it's just a distraction!

My advice if you are a newbie (or vet, as we all can learn something new..) reading this is to sit down and really get to understand THE BUSINESS FUNDAMENTALS of your website or niche.

One reason why I say this is that I was on a call with someone who was doing $1M a year without knowing some of this stuff - when he finally got it, he DOUBLED IS REVENUES in 3 MONTHS.....

Start understanding how you can
a) Increase your prices (if you sell your own product look at adding value, if you sell traffic i.e. you are an affiliate, look at asking for higher payouts...)
b) look at how you can increase your # of units sold (by doing follow up sales to returning customers or converting more unique visitors...this right here is HUGE)
c) understand the major COSTS of your business and look at how you can decrease them (alot of times the biggest cost is all that "free" time you spend doing work yourself....if you are doing work yourself that could be outsourced at a tenth of the cost you won't be able to scale your business...similarly, if you have not mapped out the proper business process for your organization, you won't be able to determine what you need to automate...)

Just to reiterate,

Making Money= Maximizing Profit.

To maximize your profit there are only 3 variables you can push or pull....
a) prices
b) quantity or # of units sold
c) costs (now the difference between fixed costs, variable costs and average costs!)

So the next time you go to buy something or have something presented to you or find yourself spending time doing something,ask your self the (3) fundamental questions...
1) Is this going to DIRECTLY help me increase my prices?
2) Is this going to help me increase the number of units sold?
3) Is going to DIRECTLY help me decrease my costs? If it is, is it going to help me decrease my fixed costs, my variable costs or my overalll average total costs (this is a subject in and of it sell but all those people chasing "free" traffic need to get the fact that it really ain't that free.....casual language done on purpose, btw....lol)


I really hope this helps someone. Sometimes, it just takes someone taking the time spell things out in simple form to really getting - and not a WSO either....LOL
#main internet marketing discussion forum #costs #make #make money #mba #money #noise #profits #revenue #ways
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    • Here's the simple version.

      ( Sale price - Production Cost ) * Quantity sold = Profit

      There are only three ways to raise your profit: increase sale price, reduce production cost, or increase quantity sold.

      There are complexities, because all of these things are interrelated. If you change one, you're probably going to change one or both of the others.

      A good course in microeconomics is recommended. M. Gregory Mankiw's text is canonical.
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    • What are the misleading conclusions?

      One conclusion, and clearly the reason for the thread, is that people don't seem to grasp the core fundamentals as well as they should. I do tend to agree with this.

      I do also think that some models online make the thought process 'easy' behind it...where many people naturally aren't thinking in these terms anyway. (i.e. Oh, I just throw Adsense and Clickbank affiliate links up on as many websites as I possibly can and watch the dough come rolling in)
  • If I can put in my two cents - The best sales trainer I ever had always said



    Any way as I was saying stick to the basics in a single market and get the money will follow you.....

    Hopefully
  • You overlooked finding new products to sell to existing customers. And certainly those new products can be outsourced. Impressive graph though.
    BTW I know most professors of business and marketing have never sat across from a real live prospect and gotten them to buy now even though they insisted they were just looking. And isn't that really the name of the game?
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    • That's a good point but keep in mind my math anology:

      There are only 4 things you can do to a number:
      -add it
      -subtract it
      -multiply it
      -divide it

      When you sell *new* products to existing customer it all boils down to understanding 1 basic equation:
      Profits = Revenues - Costs.

      When you sell *new* products to existing customer what are you doing? You are simply increasing the "# of units sold" - total number of units.

      The point I am trying to get across here is that people need to understand there are only (3) levers you can play with when it comes to making money:

      a) price
      b) quanity or total # of units sold
      c) reduction of costs....

      IMHO, if more newbies were talk to judging each decision they had to make from this very simple "profit mindset" it would be A LOT EASIER to shut out the noise, stay away from glitzy things and avoid the hype...


      Everytime one of these so called gurus shoots me with an email (I mostly stay on the list to do market research....you guessed it on prices, goods sold and costs....) I say to myself when I'm tempted to buy something (we all have our emotional triggers...)

      1) is this thing going to help me get higher prices for products in the market place
      2) Gonna help me increase the total # of units sold (it doesn' t matter if its old or new products or if the person who buys it is a returning or unique visitor)
      3) Is it gonna help me significantly reduce my costs?

      Anything - and I jokingly challenge anyone to come up with a counter example - anything that is not 1)-3) is not going to have an effect on HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE....

      Profit = Revenues - Costs......, like 1+1=2 (although some of these CB products want you to believe it equals 20! lol....)
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  • I cannot argue with your logic, but just knowing business logic does no good if you do not take the time to learn how to do those things.

    That is where courses come into play. Learning how to create more value so you can raise prices. Learning how to get more traffic so you can increase the # of units sold. Learning how to be more efficient so you can decrease costs.

    Just knowing core facts is useless if you do not know methods to implement them.
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    • I couldn't agree more with the first part of your saying. However, how many people really have a fundamental understanding of the basic facts?

      In any given day people who are in the digital space are bombarded with "buy, buy, buy". I personally do buy loads of products but my decisions are driven by understanding the fundamentals (how many people really get this?! It's just a question...)

      That new webinar software? Oh right, that will help me accelerate the relationship development process, which will enable me to add more value and charge higher prices and convert more prospects to sales (higher # units sold) PROFITS

      That ebook on list building? Oh right, that will help me lower my subscriber acquisition costs and increase PROFITS

      That new book? Oh that will help me be more authoritative which will increase conversions and allow me to charge higher prices....

      Get what I mean? I'm not saying "oh don't buy anything". By all means if it will do 1)-3) have a go at it!

      But let's be real, how many of these products are really adding that much value?

      By the way, people like Jimmy D Brown, Robert Puddy, Charlie Page and Mark Ling are excellent at presenting the core fundamentals as a benefit to buying in my book - that's why I'm a fan of their
  • Hey Moneykws,

    You just made me remember of my old Accounts lectures that I usually bunked. If I had learned that much in those boring classes then I would have never turned to IM.

    This obviously does not mean that I am against your post or something like that. Your post is actually helping me to remember the old basic formula to increase profit and reduce cost.

    I just wanted to tell you that make it a bit simple and easier to understand to other fellow warriors who never took Accounts as a subject.


    Btw great post but a bit complicated one.

    Regards
    Warren.
  • Thank you OP. I will have my son read this - he wanted to get the basics on how people make money - just in time for starting a new school year
  • Actually, he did put info from 2 semesters of Wharton business school in one post about as simply as can be done. Donald Trump would be proud. The basics are sound and every successful business,on or off the net uses them either by instinct or by design. if not, they fail. no ifs, ands or buts. (but plenty of butts. Lol.)
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  • i dont think it complicated .. read it twice and then again and it will make sense. Problem is like all things we humans in this age expect instant results ... faster services and flick your finger reactions ...

    The real money makers are those who understand how it works and how to make it work for them ...

    Or you can simply glance over it ... tell yourself taking 5 minutes to read this is way to much effort ... post a reply and move off to another thread ....

    I think this information is worth knowing ... I just printed it out and laminated it

    davewebsmith
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    • Spoken as a true Non-Marketer.

      This is what every business plan & strategy would look like if the CFO (Chief Financial Officer) ran the company...if you have ever belonged to one of those, you will know what a disaster that will turn out to be!

      Look - of course these are the economic fundamentals, what you say is not untrue.

      But...the "art" of business is how you do a better job at the psychology of understanding your market SO THAT you CAN offer your products at higher prices...that you know the psychology of a buyer SO THAT you CAN upsell effectively instead of ineffectively...

      Many people understand the economic fundamentals of business, but still fail miserably bacause they fail to get into the marketing mindset...yet there are people that know how to market and no **** about economic fundamentals that are still rolling in it.

      I rest my case!

      Jeff
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  • lol... you're pushing water uphill with a very large percentage here.

    Good discussion though.

    The reason you won't see this in a guru launch is because, well, because it's SO fundamental that you can actually procter university courses online... Sloane School of Business has a huge # of courses available.
  • Okay we have all been enlightened that to make more money we need to
    -increase sales
    -decrease cost
    -increase price?

    Maybe Im too ignorant to understand why all that isnt obvious?
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    • IMHO, the OPer is showing the framework that's underneath every business -- even IM businesses (once all of the HTML, PDF, article marketing, Twitter, Aweber razzmatazz has been stripped away).

      He's giving some rock-solid criteria upon which the value-for-money of a business strategy or new WSO can be evaluated: Does this allow me to increase my prices? Will it shift more units? Can it lower my costs?

      And if the answer's "yes", then by how much?

      But if the answer's "no", then...
    • Well as an example, use the tag function of this site and see how much discussion there is about Traffic....

      Most people assuming that increasing traffic=increasing profit.

      Yes, mass traffic generation can increase the # of units you sell to unique visitors but the average website converts @ 1%.

      In other words, just from answering some questions from people who have reached out to me I realize that many people aren't actually sitting down and saying
      "hang on a minute, there are only 3 things I really need to figure out...let me block out the noise and focus on the things that affect those 3 things the most...."

      As an example, let's talk about prices. How much time do people spend figuring out the 3 or 4 or 5 (maybe more) strategies there are to instantly get your AFFILIATE COMMISSIONS INCREASED...

      Think about it, someone right now has been struggling to get traffic to their site, when the simple act of doing a few things which would enable them to get DOUBLE THE AFFILIATE COMMISSION on the same products doesn't even cross their mind - I know because I've been working with some of the top affiliate networks out there and you CAN get an increase in COMMISSIONS and you don't have to be pulling in $25k/day to do that...

      Or let's talk about increasing the # of units sold. How many people doing affiliate marketing are even opting people in FIRST vs. direct linking?

      Optin in= a strategy to increase #of units sold not from UNIQUE VISITORS (i.e. mass traffic generation) but through sales to RETURN VISITORS...

      The simple act of opting people in to affiliate offers vs. direct linking could probably add more to the average affiliate marketer's bottom line than they have sat down and realized....

      Listened, this way of presenting an opinion isn't for everybody - I honestly had no idea people would react so strongly...

      I'm just saying for people who like to have things simply laid out and who may be a little left-brained, this works....
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    • It's indeed obvious and, while interesting to theorize about, it actually adds nothing new. That's one of the reasons I was so disgusted from my 4 years in business college: too much obvious theory, too little real every-day application.
  • You got to keep things simple dude. I understand where u are coming from especially with an economics back ground but the average person on the internet won't really grasp or have patient to read and analyze what you are saying. You got to dumb it down and simply things for people. this create a hurdle for people becuz it is a bit of a mental challange to see the big picture of what you are saying. Just my advice
  • Quite a complex analysis of a business model, but interesting, thanks very much!
  • I definitely have to say that there are a lot of great 'make money' products out there, that can give you a lot of education. With that said there is a benefit having basic knowledge from any business class. It helps with stream lining and with the back end of the business.

    IMO the point that was trying to be made was don't waste your money on the latest product unless it directly affects your bottom line.
  • raise prices, sell more units, reduce costs...how novel...
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  • moneykws, I thank you for posting this - as we need more of real marketing advice and not just make $10,000 in a day crap!

    More discussion on jv, marketing, selling and closing real deals!

    Thinking like real business people, IM and wanting to build real businesses is what I like to see more off here in this Forum!

    We could do with less marketers selling marketers and learn more about marketing to the rest of the world! ClickBank and WSO is not the world!...etc.

    Andre
  • That graph looks interesting, and i understand the there needs to be more value so you can rise the prices, get more traffic to get more sales, and to decrease the costs, and time you need to outsource some things so in that free tha you can market more.

    In this graph what TC, TR and TFC stand for?
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    • TC = Total Cost

      TR = Total Revenue

      TFC = Total Fixed Cost
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    • TC = Total Cost
      TR = Total Revenue
      TFC = Total Fixed Cost

      dangit, John! 2min?! really??!
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  • Thanks, JohnMcCabe and tecHead for the clarification
  • You know, much of this comes down to the fact that people get into this business with a very haphazard mentality. It really takes a LOT of discipline to quit a job and create a plan and execute it each and every day until you replace that income you used to get with a job. Most people either 1) hop from ebook to ebook and don't actually do anything other than read those ebooks OR 2) make a half hearted attempt at a website and give up because they only get 1 or 2 visitors a day or a week or a month. The OP makes the obvious point that this is a business and in business, we strive to improve revenue by cutting costs and increasing sales.

    TomG.
  • Despite this thread in some form denigrating to nitpicking, there is actually a lot of useful information.

    The opening thread and title makes overlyn bold statements but the information is definitely worth considering. These are SOME options to consider to increase profitability.

    But, there are other issues to consider as have been mentioned by other Warriors. If you are a newbie reading this, one who is struggling to make ends meet, take the time to read through this post and take some of the information on board.
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    • Are there overgeneralizations? I'm not trying to be argumentative - we are all here to learn. In my mind (and I've learned from this post that people can see these differently!)

      What I was saying was the equivalent of the following:

      There are only (4) things you do in math:
      -add
      -subtract
      -multiply
      -divide

      Profit is definited as the difference between Revenues and Cost. Making Money IN MY MIND is the equivalent of MAXIMIZING PROFITS...

      Now I know for a lot of people they will go on and on about how they can create new products, create more value - many other factors are responsible for generating MAXIMIZED REVENUES & MINIMIZED COSTS...

      But at the end of the day, at least the way my decision tree runs, it's about those (3) factors that make up the PROFIT EQUATION....

      Now, to be positive, I don't really want the thread to turn into a "you're right, I'm wrong" sort of thing....

      The main point I'm trying to get at is that by starting with the fundamentals, it becomes so much easier to separate those factors that really matter...
      As an example, a newbie might be sitting around saying "there are 50 things I need to learn, where do I start?!?"

      Well guess what, if you are interested in PROFITS, start with those skills or tasks that have the greatest impact on your prices, # units sold and cost.

      As an example HERE'S A PRACTICAL TIP FOR ANYONE DOING AFFILIATE MARKETING - RAISE YOUR PRICES!

      When you are an affiliate marketer, you are basically selling your traffic to someone else - in this case an affiliate network.

      Instead of chasing after more and more traffic, why not call up your affiliate network and ask for them to increase your commissions?!

      WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU SAW A WSO SHOWING PEOPLE HOW TO CALL UP THEIR NETWORKS AND ASK FOR A COMMISSION BUMP?

      You have 1 hour to invest. What's going to yield more profits, all things being equal?

      Getting your payout bumped from $5 to $10, or getting 5 more extra visitors a day to your website (assuming the conversion rates are the same...)


      Just some thoughts guys...
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  • The OP reminds me of Dan Kennedy's style of reducing
    everything to it's LCM. He teaches the sane approach
    about making more money from your business and how
    looking as the basic building blocks and making incremental
    changes can make a big difference in your bottom line.

    -Ray Edwards
  • Great post moneykws! Bookmarked this thread :-)


    Manie
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    • Sam, I normally agree with your posts, but I have to take issue here:


      Not that I'm arguing against the OP, but Dennis does have a point here:

      Every newsletter that Paul Myers sends out ends with the tag "Find this useful? Buy me a beer" followed by a PayPal link. I have no idea what the take-up is, but any additional revenue comes at no extra cost and is not dependent on or related to the sales of products mentioned elsewhere in the newsletter.

      I imagine this is similar to the experiment Dennis undertook. I vote he gets his $100.


      Frank
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  • For the people battling over semantics.

    1. Increase transactional units (this is sales, clicks, ads, front end, back end, donations, theft, et al)
    2. Increase the value of transactional units
    3. Lower cost to perform a transaction. (all costs, including time)

    There they are. The only ways to increase PROFIT. Everything falls under those three.

    You can argue over semantics all you want... they all fall under one of the three.


    You made a new product? See #1
    You increased the price? See #2
    You sold back-end people stuff? See #1
    You sold the same exact thing twice to two separate people? See #1 & potentially #3
    You got a better ROI on your advertising? See #3
    You increased your conversion rate? See #1 & #3
    You're selling your time? See #1
    Adsense? See #1
    Reduced your refund rate? See #1 & #3
    Taking donations? See #1
    You won the lottery? See #2
  • I don't know why everybody is bashing the OP here... If you are trying to build a real business and grow it into something decent size, then these are the core fundamentals. These are the things that companies pay people like Paul Lemberg 6 figures to come in and figure out for them... How to figure out a way to do those 3 things. As a matter if fact, Paul's Formula5 course that was put out a couple years ago thru stompernet was just that - basically increase sales by 15%, increase prices by 15% and decrease costs by 15% and then 2 other things by 15% and the net result is that you double net profits... all by making these small 15% changes in these core areas...

    So, i think its a good and valuable post...
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    • Indeed, as it is considering the interaction of price, cost and sales volume and their effect on profitability which allows a business to define a business development strategy.

      Additionally, there are some positive and negative relationships between these three indicators, which can be used to judge the overall health of a business.

      For example:

      High sales volume + high cost = high turnover but low profits. Not the best situation in the world, as most accountants will tell you, turnover is for vanity but profit is for sanity.

      Low cost + high sales volume = time to revise pricing, as there is probably some room for an increase.

      High price + low cost + high volume = Bingo!

      The real kicker here is keeping tabs on the cost indicator. Most business will already know their sales volume and of course their pricing, but without knowing exact costs, are missing one corner of the triangle.
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  • This all makes so much sense and is true in my opinion, how can you say you are making money if you have no idea of what it truly takes to make money. The formulas are awesome the explanation is spot on and I personaly want to thank you for taking the time to post this it is a true value to this site!
  • Oooo I wanna play!

    First let me say that the OP's main point of there only being three ways to increase "profits" is correct.

    Secondly, ewenmack, selling more to existing customers is the OP's second way of increasing profits by "increasing the number of units sold."

    Thirdly, receiving "donations" as discussed in this thread is technically increasing price. We may call it "donations" but the IRS calls it revenue if the "donation" is linked to some type of value you provided to the "giver." Meaning the money is linked to whatever activity you did to cause that person to give you money.

    If that activity was providing a product (or content, etc), and that person loved your so much product that much that they decided to "give" you more money, the IRS calls it revenue and it is TIED to the original product, which technically increases the money you received for that product, hence its "price" was increased. To the IRS, a true donation is when someone gives you money and you did NOTHING for them in return.

    Fourthly, the OP did not create that graph. It is in economics text books everywhere.

    Fifthly, someone brought up a great point about the 2nd break even point on the graph where TOO MUCH REVENUE can actually result is LESS PROFITS. Someone else asked for an example. Does anyone have a good example? I'll come up with one if no one else has one.

    Good discussion. I love analytical conversations such as this. Hey, I'm an accountant.

    Brandon
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  • Let's break this down a little more so people can actually grasp what we're getting at.

    Over any period of time and any amount of business, there is an amount of money that goes into your pocket and an amount of money that comes out of your pocket.

    The difference between these two is profit if you put more money into your pocket than you took out of it, or loss if you took more money out of your pocket than you put into it.

    The money that goes into your pocket is called revenue. The money that comes out of your pocket is called expense.

    So revenue - expense = profit, over any period of time and any number of transactions.

    Now, if you take a whole lot of transactions, and you divide the total revenue by the number of transactions, you will get an average revenue per transaction. And if all the transactions were for the same thing, you will find that this average revenue is awfully damn close to the sale price of that thing. So close, in fact, that they are often considered interchangeable.

    Similarly, if you do that with expenses, you get an average expense per transaction that is awfully damn close to the production cost. Again, so close, they are often considered interchangeable.

    Finally, every transaction involves one and only one customer. So on a theoretical level, transactions = customers. even if the same customer makes several transactions.

    So average revenue per transaction = revenue / customers = sale price.

    And average expense per transaction = expense / customers = production cost.

    Now we pull out the algebra.

    If revenue - expense = profit, then revenue / customers - expense / customers = profit / customers.

    And therefore, sale price - production cost = profit / customers.

    Which gives us ( sale price - production cost ) * customers = profit.

    Which is sufficiently precise for pretty much anyone of reasonable intelligence to make sensible decisions about how to increase profits in his business.

    When you complicate this simple and understandable equation with special cases and convoluted plans, you are not helping anyone. Most businesses do not have them, and most business owners cannot identify - let alone create - similar cases and plans.

    TecHead spends an awful lot of time reminding people of very basic and very reliable principles which can really help people. Unfortunately, some people spend an awful lot of time arguing with basic and reliable principles for no good reason.
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    • There was no mention of not allowing special cases to the OP's challenge.

      No good reason? $100 was offered. Maybe $100 isn't a good reason to you, but it works for me.
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  • Oh yeah, is the contest for $100 still up for grabs (although we all entered ourselves into the contest considering the offer was made to one person LOL)?

    You can increase profits without raising prices, without selling more units, and without lowering costs by selling the business.

    And before you say it, that doesn't link to raising prices because none of that revenue is tied to a product.

    And if you want to get real technical, a large corporation can increase profits without doing any of the 3 things by selling a part of the business no longer needed, such as the distribution part of a business.

    On the books, that income goes underneath everything under a title called "Discontinued Operations." This results in net profits for the company (if they sell it for more than its cost of course).

    Now, let's see if someone can plug some holes in this. Maybe it's possible, but I don't think so. ;-)

    Brandon

    P.S. Sorry for being super technical but once again I'm accountant. Which is why I try to keep my mouth shut on this forum. Overanalytical is my middle name.
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    • I think this is outside the scope of the OP's challenge... Changing ownership of a company is not the same thing as increasing profits. It might increase the "profit" of the owners, but not the profits of the company... And its either ordinary income or capital gains... Selling the business is capital gains unless building and selling businesses is your business, then you are a "dealer" and your income doesnt get cap gains treatment and has to be taxed at ordinary income levels. But if its open to ideas like this, you could always do a reg s or reg d offering and raise money from accredited investors in europe and then just pocket the dough and say the venture didnt work out. That increases "profits" too and was done a bunch in the 1990's and early 2000's...

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    • You increased the number of units sold by one ... And hopefully the price.
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  • For everyone saying it's so obvious take a look at all the comments in the thread saying they don't get it.

    The second break even point pretty much never applies to digital goods but about the closest I can come up with is ppc marketing with low profit margin. If you make 6c a click then you can only buy traffic priced 5c and below. At some point you cap out and your variable costs out strip your income.

    And finally, here's the accounting 101 test to see if you really "get it" - "we'll lose a buck a unit and make it up on volume."
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  • I thought good business was having a warehouse full of something everybody wanted. Example: remember those super ugly cabbage patch dolls?

    I wish we could graph the stupidity of an emotional fad.
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    • That last sentence is hilarious. I can graph it without graphing paper. Here goes: ^ (the line represents revenue).
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  • I really enjoyed the OP, I feel he is getting some un warranted criticism .... But i think this criticism is a product of the thread title and the reason the thread lasted so long, so it's not all bad.

    Those that get it this thread will be useful. Those that don't get it and are still making money you are actually getting it. Those that don't get it and are not making money then don't brush it off there may be things to learn.

    Every little bit of information that ads some value to you is useful this did for me.
  • I totally agree with the 3 ways of making money. No doubt....But what about the good old customer is always right...what about quality of a product/BRAND...
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    Looking foward to your responses
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    Without product quality how are we to use the 3 method ?
  • Hi Guys,

    The OP's statement is very clear and easy to understand, basically 3 points which when understood correctly and in combination with each other can increase profits hugely.

    But and its a big BUT... you need to have a business model before these come into play. I'd say for a lot of people that are new to internet marketing or making money online, they need to find ways to make money online that suits them.

    This is where the gold is hidden in the noise... Like all things you need to sort the wheat from the chaff, or sh*t from the clay (for any x-construction workers lol).

    Once you have a business model (products, delivery methods, promotions etc) then implicate the 3 criteria from the OP and watch your profits increase.

    Once again, my views only..

    Pete
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    • I'm sorry Andy, I can't agree here. Donations shouldn't even have come into this thread. As CDarklock pointed out, a donor isn't a customer. The OP's formulas apply to exchanges of value. With a voluntary donation, there need be no exchange.

      Let's put it another way: suppose Dennis removed everything from his website apart from a PayPal "Donate" button; would we still try to apply the formulas describing the relationship between 'the cost of sales', 'the cost of production', 'the quantity sold' or 'profit' to Dennis's site? I don't think that we'd even bother to try, because donations are an entirely different ball game.

      Arguing that donations have increased your profits is like arguing that the points you scored in yesterday's basketball game should be added to your score in today's soccer match.

      We're quoting the IRS for definitions in economic theory? I don't think that the IRS is really interested in economic theory...

      Income! Yeah, that's all the IRS is interested in.
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  • When I was in my early 20's I used to have a part time gig playing guitar behind these two women from California who would come to Nashville once a month for a week at a time and book themselves up at all the amateur nights, songwriters clubs ahead of time... trying to make it big as songwriters.

    So anyway, one of them had a rich husband she was the one financing their adventures), and she was always teasing the other one about trying to be frugal...

    She said "You are always talking about saving money... the best thing I always say is just MAKE MORE"!

    That always stuck with me...

    BTW The Guys from "Bad Company" thought they were hot... so I got to hang around and party with Bad company for like 3 nights in a row because of them, which was a huge deal to me at the time! Just sayin...
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    • LOL.. you are such a dork.. just sayin'...
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  • This is excellent information. You're right that many entrepreneurs do not understand the balance between fixed costs and variable costs. When I was the sales manager of a major automotive service supplier, I reminded the team repeatedly that if sales increase by just 10%, profits would increase 30%. And a sales increase of 30% would double profits, because the fixed costs remained the same (and didn't bleed the net profit in the end).
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  • Hang on, all those fake gross numbers thrown around aren't real?
  • Your mama was fillin out a job application down at the welfare office, and where it said sign here she put "kapricorn"... she thought Manuel Labor was the president of mexico.
  • Yeah you probably never meet bad company dude talkin like that.
  • There is nothing complicated about this post, if someone takes an introductry class to economics the they will know the terms and terminology that the op lays out. With that being said, this is really an impractical post, and i fail to see how the op tied the title of their post with the content in it. There are only three ways to make money? LOL.
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    • How is it impractical? I laid out in my first supposition that by my assumptions

      MAKING MONEY = MAKING PROFIT


      I defined profit as Revenues - Costs...

      Also, one thing I was hoping to create some discussion around was the issue of costs....

      If you have read any studies, you know that small/new businesses often have their PROFITS KILLED by HIDDEN COSTS....

      One of the biggest hidden costs in online business is....YOU GUESSED IT...
      this notion of FREE TRAFFIC!

      THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE TRAFFIC!

      What kills alot of newbies and medium-level business owners alot is this hunt for the elusive "free traffic".

      Let's look at at this:

      -First of all, there are only 8700 (give or take) hours in a year.
      -SEO, requires time if you are doing it yourself
      -Time=labor hours
      -If you want to grow your business (meaning scale it), you need more labor hours
      -SEO requires YOUR TIME (often the most expensive labor input in any business is the owner's time)
      -Hence, SEO COSTS MONEY


      Think it doesn't? Try to remove yourself (using the term "your" generally) from the process of getting SEO traffic and hire it out and you will see exactly how much seo traffic costs...

      I don't think the average newbie has learned to sit down and actually "price" the cost of seo....

      In doing so, they could do a quick, back of the envelop, roi analysis...which would have them do something like (ex)

      "Ok, I could spend 20 labor hours of seo myself, which has a $20/hr labor cost associated with it and get 50 visitors a day in the next 30-90 days or I could spend $200 on a quick traffic source, get those visitors in 24 hours, make a quick profit, reinvest that profit and grow my business faster over that same time period...."

      Besides the hidden cost of "free" traffic there's also another HUGE hidden cost related to outsourcing

      To do outsourcing right you need to train your workers. I've personally spend $xx,xxx in tangible training and labor hours to train outsourcers.

      However, alot of people don't factor this HIDDEN COST in when they are looking to outsource. Even worse, they don't realize that it's alot better to find one outsourcer and develop a long term relationship. Why? Because if spend money on training someone who only stays on for a short period - then they go work for someone else.....often times the OTHER PERSON gets the results of your human resource investment as it takes time for that kind of HR training investment to pay off (people need time to get good at things....)

      I could go on and on about how a good "profit" frame of mind can assist virtually anyone with identifying hidden costs or other factors which affect the bottom line....I suspect other people could to here!
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    • How much will it cost you to ignore this thread? (and comment)
    • Touche - lol. Actually though this is pure relaxation for me (geek alert!) so I consider myself off the clock....

      However, it's important to note that I do alot of automation+outsourcing so I can have more free time +more profits
  • I was gonna be all bitchy and get pissed because I thought this was another thread about a new system or just "just work harder" etc...

    But it's 100% accurate and right. 99% of the people on this forum don't know how to run a business.

    What you just quoted is the end goal of all the bells and whistles (such as outsourcing). But it really all boils down to those three items.

    Raise prices
    Sell more
    Lower costs.

    The graph was a nice touch

    -Adam
    CEO @ AIRiUS Media
    AIRiUS Media is Ottawa Marketing, Ottawa Advertising & Ottawa Promotion

    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • I vote for Dennis view because "inspiring people to pay more without trying or taking any intentional action is like a 4th dimension of sales... that's like Jedi Sales".
  • I think it's interesting that some people get what the OP said right off the bat, some questioned it, and others dismissed it.

    I think it has to do more with what type of person you are as to how much you understand or agree with what he is saying. Salesman sell. That is what they do. If you tell a salesman you aren't going to hire him, he'll sell you on why you should right there on the spot.

    There's room for everyone in IM and the business world in general. My former title at my previous company was "Chief Strategist" lol Fancy title, but it meant that I was responsible for increasing profits...maybe that's why I like what the OP said.

    But, no matter what happens...if you want to grow your company changes will be made over time.
    A great book on this subject is Michael Masterson's Zero To 100 Million. It's especially cool for us here because it's about information product marketing. A great read for anyone looking for how a one man startup becomes a $100 million+ year juggernaut.
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  • GASP!!! SOMEONE REFERRED TO A BREAK EVEN ANALYSIS!!

    GIVE JOHN HENDERSON A FREAKING ROUND OF APPLAUSE!! I WOULD BUY YOU PINTS IF YOU WERE HERE IN THE STATES!!
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  • Wow - I honestly didn't think the thread would spark any kind of "debate" (lol) - I was sincerely trying to spark some conversation on fundamental basics....

    I guess part of the problem is I have subscribed to alot of the "guru" emails to study their sales and marketing tactics and after a while (outside of a few that I've named like Jimmy D Brown, Charlie Page, etc) the rest were just showing people shiny bells and whistles and not really underscoring the basics.

    Also, in terms of people who disagree, hey we are all here to learn and we can differ in opinion. The way I see life I'll always consider myself a noob because I'm always learning new things (think mobile at the moment for instance!)

    I also think it's great how some people stepped in and presented the same theory but in a different matter....and some people who perhaps thought they way I described it was too dense, really got it after others elucidated!

    That's what real learning is about, IMHO...
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  • Yeah but it stall all boils down to those three things.

    It's like with people. There are only 2 things EVER that motivate people. The desire to avoid pain and the desire to gain pleasure.

    Everything can be broken down to the lowest common denominator and the OP nailed it spot on for business.

    Cheers
    - Adam

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    • Wow! I can't thank the OP enough for this thread. And I want to also thank all those that chimed in clarifying.
      I also didn't realize that they are so many people here that understands economics. And apparently many that don't.
      I took economics in college and was bored silly, mainly because it was so obvious. It was one of the few things that I could take the concepts and run with.
      The reason I bring that up (college) is that in reading this thread I finally realized why I've been unable (to this point) get starting making any money on the internet. That because no program I'm aware of or that I've bought gives me any of those factors to work from. I knew something was missing and now I know what. The foundation! IM 101 so to speak.
      Take for instance in affilate marketing what are the costs of acquiring a sale. I know the cost varies with different markets but at least give me an across the board average. If I know that then I can make an informed decision on promoting a product.
      I simply don't have the money to test those costs nor the desire as the first rule of making money is to preserve your principal.
      So if someone knows these numbers in internet marketing or knows a program that teaches this please let me know.
      Wow! Again. This eases a lot of stress I was under as I never could seem to understand IM. I really did think I had become lazy, unmotivated, have 'old-timers' or stay stuck on the sidelines.
      -Lyn
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  • ..btw here's a really cool tool from my bookmarks some of you guys may want to check out....it's a Customer Lifetime Value Calculator

    Customer Lifetime Value Tool
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  • Along this same line in dealing with a product owner as an affilate either on clickbank or another network do you or should you assume that, first are conversion rates inflated and are those conversion rates assuming first contact or through the autoresponder series.
    I was curious as I assume products owners present the best case and everything I've read says repeated contact is needed for maximum sales.
    I've found through my experience that depending on the result desired doubling or halving any numbers is a good place to start.
    Just wondering what numbers are absolute.
    The reason I ask is that I'm on disability and partially from a medical operation I have a mild brain injury that one result is the inability to do sequencing.
  • Are yall still talking about this? How many ways can one state the obvious?
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  • Thought I was the only person out here sharing this stuff. It doesn't take an MBA to learn about business - ask the guy who owns the local 7-11. If he looks stressed, there's a reason.

    Most of those looking for 'easy and simple' are coming online as employees from XYZ Company and have not one iota of how a real business works. They show up, get a check and go home.

    Thank you a thousand times for starting this thread. Hopefully some of the newbies will take the time to read it.
  • Quality and dellivery alsomatter in revenue apart form three main points discussed above
  • Thank you very much for this article. I think when it comes down to it people just need to GIVE A CRAP. The internet marketing business is plagued by quick fixes and automation tools.

    My day job is in finance. I get working capital for businesses. I cant tell you how many times I ask business owners questions like "what were your credit card sales for last month?" and they simply have no idea.

    Of course, everything in life is this way. Im not surprised that person double their profits in 3 months when they sat down and looked at their business. I am new in internet marketing so I will certainley keep this as a backbone business model for myself.

    Thanks Again,
    Darrin
  • Very complicated.

    Three ways:

    1.) MLM Multi level marketing
    2.) Affiliate marketing
    3.) Paid to click sites
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    • The folks replying to this thread dismayed and irritated me the first time.... Now they are back. At first, I couldn't figure out why.... then it came to me!

      Halloween is just around the corner.
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  • How to make money online (the simplified version)

    1. Go where the traffic is.
    2. Give people what they want

    It really is that simple.
  • Thanks for this post. I think this is obvious to most of us, except maybe not the newbies. I see so many WSO's and people claiming "make $300/day" or "5k/month". Newbs need to realize a lot of time that is "revenue" and not profit. For instance I may have 5k in revenue each month but only 2k profit (or even less). Anyways, I would hope that isn't the case, but people have to realize that there is a difference even though it's obvious to most of us.
  • I think a lot of people are making this more complicated than it should be. Good basic intel is always that... basic.

    And I agree with the three basics... Either sell more units, cut costs, or increase the current price of individual units. Simple testing with enough traffic should be able to tell you the optimum on each one (save for cutting costs...)

    Nice graph; but it may confuse some warriors...
  • hey i did noy knoe that you also have to apply some economics in internet marketing to the extenxt of graphs

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