What Side Of The Fence Are You On

14 years ago

I think the answer to that depends on how long you have been around in IM. How many times have you already been duped by promises. At what point do you stop buying all the shinny stuff. How many shinny products do you already have sitting on your shelf. And if you have been around IM and do know how to take a few great products, combine them and turn it into a killer product then I would do that. If you are brand new to IM many won't know how to do that effectively. And many that are new are still caught up in collecting the shinny stuff.

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talfighel

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Davis

I think the answer to that depends on how long you have been around in IM. How many times have you already been duped by promises. At what point do you stop buying all the shinny stuff. How many shinny products do you already have sitting on your shelf. And if you have been around IM and do know how to take a few great products, combine them and turn it into a killer product then I would do that. If you are brand new to IM many won't know how to do that effectively. And many that are new are still caught up in collecting the shinny stuff.

I agree. If you are new to IM, then this would be a great product that anyone would take advantage on.

If you have been in IM for a while then you know that this is just plain hype and would not buy it unless you are really desperate.

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steveniam

14 years ago

Since it has insane gravity it would have appear in one of the threads in Warriors Forum - Internet Marketing Products & Reviews.

I would reviews buyers comments before I decide whether it is a product worth of buying or just a load of crap

Originally Posted by JackTriggs

If there was a clickbank product that was lauched which promised thousands every day on auto-pilot and had insane gravity

Would you

(a) buy it thinking ONLY that you are finally getting the secret to success

or

(b) research how the product was launched so you could ape it (be it in the same niche or another) and reap the benefits accordingly

Choose wisely...and ask yourself whether your past actions are confirming your choice.

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Teravel

14 years ago

I don't think the answer is as simple as A or B. Everyone is different, and thus they will take different actions towards different products. If a product on Clickbank reaches the top of the Gravity charts, it usually means that everyone under the sun is promoting it, and it will be a hard product to re-promote on your own website (Unless you know you can out SEO the other marketers).

Internet Marketing isn't Black and White. There are infinite possibilities, you just have to find the one that works best for you and run with it.

~ Teravel

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Buy the product and watch the process.

If it's been successful, there's a reason why.

Do as they do, not as they say.

Unless you've bought tons of other stuff. In that case, concentrate and on them and just stop buying.

Otherwise all you'll end up doing is getting in debt.

This is experience speaking.

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Jack, for me, (a) is not even an option. I know better.

Before I even contemplated (b), I'd want to know how that "insane gravity" was achieved. There are ways to manipulate that number to fleece those who don't understand it.

Before I tried to ape a product or a launch, I'd be much more concerned with how well the offer converted for serious affiliates sending good traffic than I would about how many random affiliates stumbled over a sale or two...

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JackTriggs

If there was a clickbank product that was lauched which promised thousands every day on auto-pilot and had insane gravity
Would you
(a) buy it thinking ONLY that you are finally getting the secret to success
or
(b) research how the product was launched so you could ape it (be it in the same niche or another) and reap the benefits accordingly

Neither.

Products with "insanely high gravity" tend all too often to have low conversion-rates, a huge turnover of affiliates each making very few sales after a struggle to promote the product, and a far lower total number of sales than most people expect "from the gravity" (not that there's really a way of working it out from the gravity, of course, but many people wrongly imagine that there is).

This would be one I'd avoid altogether.

Not least because I wouldn't want to get involved in that niche anyway, and I find earnings claims distasteful, unpleasant and implausible (and pretty often illegally worded, too).

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Products with "insanely high gravity" tend all too often to have low conversion-rates, a huge turnover of affiliates each making few sales, and a far lower total number of sales than most people expect "from the gravity" (not that there's really a way of working it out from the gravity, of course, but many people imagine there is).

That doesnt make any sense. Gravity is directly linked to how many different affiliates are scoring sales with that product. So, if a myriad of affiliates (using all a myriad of different marketing promotional tactics) are scoring sales it means that conversions cannot be that bad. In order to sustain a high gravity, affiliates need to sustain their sales otherwise gravity drops. The only way to sustain sales is to have a decent conversion rate.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

if a myriad of affiliates (using all a myriad of different marketing promotional tactics) are scoring sales it means that conversions cannot be that bad.

This simply isn't so, I'm afraid, in spite of being rather a widely held belief.

Possibly this post will enlighten you a little.

Possibly. But that's up to you.

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

In order to sustain a high gravity, affiliates need to sustain their sales otherwise gravity drops. The only way to sustain sales is to have a decent conversion rate.

Also sadly mistaken.

Affiliates don't need to "maintain their sales otherwise gravity drops". That simply isn't how gravity works at all, and isn't what it measures. If the number of affiliates remains constant and all their sales were to drop by 90%, that wouldn't actually change the gravity figure at all.

Gravity doesn't measure the number of sales. It measure the number of affiliates each of whom has made one or more sales during the previous 8 weeks. Turnover of affiliates commonly maintains the high gravities of such products without their having either a decent conversion-rate or nearly such high numbers of sales as would expected by many people who haven't quite thought it through.

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Also sadly mistaken.

Gravity doesn't measure the number of sales. It measure the number of affiliates each of whom has made one or more sales during the previous 8 weeks.

I don't expect you to agree with me; but I reserve the right to correct the misinformation you post here on this subject.

Perhaps you could drop the condescending tone of voice and read the posts you're addressing instead.

In my post I said, literally, that "Gravity is directly linked to how many different affiliates are scoring sales with that product". I do know very well what gravity is, and I repeat my statement: for gravity to remain high you require a myriad of different affiliates to keep on scoring sales on a recurrent manner, otherwise gravity drops. And in order to have a myriad of different affiliates sustaining recurrent sales, conversion ratios on the product should be rather high.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I repeat my statement: for gravity to remain high you require a myriad of different affiliates to keep on scoring sales on a recurrent manner, otherwise gravity drops.

It remains mistaken, I'm afraid - however many times you repeat it.

That simply isn't how gravity works, and isn't what it measures, as explained in this post.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Even if the product converts decently, gravity, to me, reflects plenty of competition. And that means starting from a tough position right from the word go.

There has to be an easier way.

Well, it does ... and there can be ... but let's not forget that there can be mega-successful ways into marketing high-gravity products and high-gravity niches, too.

Look at the people who started off marketing "FatLoss4Idiots" by ignoring all the conventional "diet approaches" and targeting "social/leisure interests of women aged 30+" instead, with much lower-priced keywords for PCC and all the rest of it. They did very well indeed. (That one, I believe, genuinely did happen to have a decent conversion-rate and I know it had very good sales numbers. There are always exceptions).

It's always possible to do well with products that are converting well, provided you have a "new way in", an appropriate existing list, or some inventive and imaginative approach to the niche. For myself, I tend not to, so I keep away, but that's personal preference.

That's a rather different point.

However, the ill-informed and totally mistaken viewpoint that "high gravity signifies high numbers of sales and a decent conversion rate" is one I'll always correct when I see it here. Believing myself (through a combination of misconceptions, assumptions, misinformation and some gullibility) that it was so was what prevented me from making a living for my first 4/5 months in this business, as it has done for so many thousands of other people, and it's not something I take pleasure in seeing other Warriors repeating.

Originally Posted by John McEachern

Anybody want a site on "reverse cell" with 3000 backlinks?

I hate that stuff. Unless you are a backlinking machine, high gravity niches will drain any enthusiasm you brought into IM - at least for me.

I know what you mean, I think. On the other hand, the more the work you've already put into one, the closer you ought to be to breaking through with it, if that's possible (and at least with the product you're promoting, I believe there are customers for it and the sales page does convert, so it could be a lot worse!).

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Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

I would pass on anything that promised "thousands every day on autopilot" regardless of the gravity.

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AndrewStark

14 years ago

stop chasing the dream, and work on reality.

I think that a consistent $30 each day is worth more than hundreds per day but the fear that it could all disappear just as fast as it arrived.

I just posted a very honest review of a product with the highest every gravity and it definately leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Just because everyone else is promoting it and selling it doesn't make it right.

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KenThompson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JackTriggs

If there was a clickbank product that was lauched which promised thousands every day on auto-pilot and had insane gravity

Would you

(a) buy it thinking ONLY that you are finally getting the secret to success

or

(b) research how the product was launched so you could ape it (be it in the same niche or another) and reap the benefits accordingly

Choose wisely...and ask yourself whether your past actions are confirming your choice.

(a.) No, I would not buy it only because I've been around long enough to know not
to buy it. But to be fair, I would check it out and read the letter, at least.

There are several considerations: It could actually be something worthwhile, but
the sales letter (copywriter + vendor buy-in to the copy) had verbage "promising
thousands each day on autopilot." While I would never write that kind of copy, and
it's usually a bright red flare that BS is just around the corner; you never know - and
you really don't.

I've seen decent products, confirmed after purchasing, with copy that doesn't do the
product justice for different reasons. I've seen garbage, crap-filled, totally BS products
with fabulous copy. (You may be surprised if I disclosed details about the latter.)
Speaking from experience on both points, mentioned.

So I will always maintain that you really never know.

(b) I would only be interested in how it was launched if there was something specific
that compelled me to have an interest. First, I'm pretty familiar with the processes
involved with high visibility launches. But for your question, if I saw something during
the launch phase that drew my attention to it, then I may want to learn more.

Otherwise, no, I would not be interested in how it was launched.

Ken

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JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

Perhaps you could drop the condescending tone of voice and read the posts you're addressing instead.

In my post I said, literally, that "Gravity is directly linked to how many different affiliates are scoring sales with that product". I do know very well what gravity is, and I repeat my statement: for gravity to remain high you require a myriad of different affiliates to keep on scoring sales on a recurrent manner, otherwise gravity drops. And in order to have a myriad of different affiliates sustaining recurrent sales, conversion ratios on the product should be rather high.

AA, if you read the original post, it sounds like the OP is addressing a recently launched product. No mention of maintaining high gravity over any length of time.

Maybe, if I'm a product owner looking for a big splash on launching, I want that high gravity number in order to attract a large number of affiliates. I might even indulge in a few shenanigans to inflate that gravity for some quick momentum. In the short term, maybe I don't care about churn and burn among affiliates, as long as I get paid.

Which is why I said I'd want to know how that 'insane gravity' was achieved on launch.

From the affiliate's side of the table, I don't give gravity much credence because I don't really care how many affiliates are making an odd sale here and there. I want products for which I can generate ongoing sales over a period of time, which requires an offer which converts well for the traffic I send it.

Sliding back to the product owner's side of the table, I'd rather have a product for which serious affiliates can generate a number of sales over a long period of time. Makes things easier as far as support, and makes the possibilities for the next launch much more fun to think about...

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JackTriggs

14 years ago

obviously my sentence concerning gravity caused a few issues...let's just say the latest hyped product.

In essence, what I was trying to get through, was that the real money is with being a product owner and all the leveragable opportunities it brings...

It's better to be at the top of the foodchain so to speak

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JackTriggs

obviously my sentence concerning gravity caused a few issues...

Don't worry about that at all. The more people get the opportunity to appreciate that gravity doesn't relate to either conversion rates or sales numbers, the better.

Originally Posted by JackTriggs

In essence, what I was trying to get through, was that the real money is with being a product owner and all the leveragable opportunities it brings...

Again, as we've seen so repeatedly here, in so many similar conversations, many will disagree pretty strongly with this perspective. There are actually many advantages to being an affiliate which aren't available to vendors. When the two are compared, however, what tends to happen is that people list the advantages of being a vendor, perhaps not always quite appreciating that many of them also apply to affiliates.

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JackTriggs

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Don't worry about that at all. The more people get the opportunity to appreciate that gravity doesn't relate to either conversion rates or sales numbers, the better.

Again, as we've seen so repeatedly here, in so many similar conversations, many will disagree pretty strongly with this perspective. There are actually many advantages to being an affiliate which aren't available to vendors. When the two are compared, however, what tends to happen is that people list the advantages of being a vendor, perhaps not always quite appreciating that many of them also apply to affiliates.

Maybe, but I'm a big fan of leverage...

Say you're the product owner of ...i dunno...a dog training ebook...(to use the generic example) and you had 1000 people promoting it in conjunction with your efforts...jackpot baby (for instance Travis Sago's Magic of Making Up)

Obviously you have to recruit affiliates, train them, negiotate with website owners, but it would definitely pay off

Sure a lot of variables come into play, but being JUST affiliate who working for small change (in the grand scheme of things when compared to the product owner) doesn't sit well it me

Be a product owner and an affiliate (on the backend) is a much more powerful combo

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What Side Of The Fence Are You On

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