Scammed? Whats The Next Step?

67 replies
I bought a product/course about 3 weeks ago that was promoted on a webinar hosted by a very reputable marketer, which had a guest that promoted the product I bought, you know the kind of thing, right?

Now this cost a couple of hundred bucks and although I had seen the topic covered before in another product, the speaker gave a good impression that he had the real low down on the method and as he stressed that there was a no questions asked 30 day full cash refund I thought what the heck I'll take a look.

Anyway after going through the course there was nothing new at all and I had seen it all before in another product so decided I would ask for a refund.

I sent an email to the 2 email adresses I had for him (one was the paypal email) and 3 days later no reponse. So next I thought I'd send him a pm in the products forum. Another 2 days passed and still nothing, even though the marketer had been in the forum and made a couple of posts.

So I made a forum post, nothing nasty or negative just simply asked where and how I could get a refund. The next day I logged in to find the post had been deleted and still no reply from the marketer although I did get 2 messages from other members saying they were having the same problems getting their "no questions asked refund" too.

Alarm bells started to ring so knowing he was a warrior logged in here and sent him a pm. Still no reply. I have sent a refund request to paypal but as we all know they ignore anything that is not a physical product which is shipped, so I am not holding out much hope on that front.

So where would you go from here? As I mentioned he is a warrior member and has a bit of rep here with a few hundred posts and about a hundred thanks so really am at a loss to wonder why he is ignoring refund requests, especially since he claims to be making thousands a day from this method alone.

So what do you think fellow warriors? I considered making a post asking if anyone knew how to contact him but thought would see what more seasoned warriors advised.

Many thanks for reading this
#refund #scam #scammed #step #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author sanssecret
    Why do I keep hearing different stories about Paypal? Some folks say they always side with the buyer, others reckon not. Who's right?

    Who was the 'very reputable marketer' hosting the webinar? If they're that reputable I don't think they'll be happy to hear their special guest is refusing refunds from sales made while on their webinar.

    I wouldn't be making any posts about how to get in contact with him after you've made this one. It would then be obvious who they are, and the overiding rule of the forum is...."if you have a problem with another warrior..." (I figure you know the rest).
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlePrince
    Just keep escalating the paypal dispute, he has to respond eventually or they'll freeze his account. All you have to do is send them a link to his sales page that shows the 30 day guarantee and the date you purchased, they'll side with you in the dispute
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      If enough people contact paypal I would bet the seller would refund just to get rid of you.

      I would imagine Paypal would start looking into his account if enough people contacted them in terms of refunds.
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      • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
        Paypal won't have anything to do with "virtual" products, they will only take action on physical products which are shipped.

        I have already received a notice from paypal giving the terms and conditions bumph so that won't have much effect.

        As for him getting worried about paypal disputes not sure if that will happen as many people will have used a CC. I normally use my CC if I'm not 100% sure about something but in this case I knew his name and have bought several products of the webinar host too so figured i would be ok, silly me.

        For me the loss of a couple of hundred bucks is not going to kill me but that is hardly the point. Not being able to name him is frustrating but I do understand the policy here, I guess I just hoped he might see it and feel guilty or that one of te "big boys" here might be able to help.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richnana
          The paypal dispute process works. Just lodge a complaint with PayPal and keep going. They will in effect negotiate the refund for you through their dispute process
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by ArticlePrince View Post

      Just keep escalating the paypal dispute, he has to respond eventually or they'll freeze his account. All you have to do is send them a link to his sales page that shows the 30 day guarantee and the date you purchased, they'll side with you in the dispute
      Excellent advice, wait for 1-2 more days and if you still don't get any response, then escalate this issue with Paypal. It may not guarantee you a refund, but at least you'll put the seller on notice that he can't just keep ignoring refund requests, especially since I'm almost positive you aren't the only one in this case.
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      • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
        As I mentioned before Paypal are not interested in any products that are not physically shipped. I tried sending them another email including the cache of the salespage (the product is closed for now) and just got another reply stating they could not do anything about virtual products and yet another link to their tos.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vogin
          Even if you can't get your money back, you can ruin his reputation instead - not here, it's prohibited, but nobody can forbid you to find others with the same problem and write some guest posts here and there, post on forums...

          Bad reputation is much worse than earning a few hundreds bucks. Try to PM him in this tone...
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

          As I mentioned before Paypal are not interested in any products that are not physically shipped. I tried sending them another email including the cache of the salespage (the product is closed for now) and just got another reply stating they could not do anything about virtual products and yet another link to their tos.
          You don't send Paypal emails complaining about products. You simply file a Paypal dispute and then Paypal will act one way or the other and in the case of digital goods, they usually rule in favor of the purchaser.
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  • Profile picture of the author bluenetworx
    You can get your money back from Paypal even if it is not a physical product, here's how: Call them and tell them you never received anything from this person, and then initiate a dispute and then escalate the dispute into a claim. Paypal when then be forced to contact the merchant and ask him for proof of shipping, which he will not be able to provide because it is not a physical product!

    Then paypal will reverse the transaction back to you, just make sure you do not mention to paypal that you ever received anything or they will not help you.
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    • Profile picture of the author David_Nilsson
      Hi rich_henderson, mate I know what your going through.

      A few weeks ago I signed up for a one on one mentor program that was being ran by a fellow warrior and that I saw marketed in his signature at the bottom of his posts for $997.

      This is how the program want:

      Day 1. - We got emailed a questionnaire about our background etc. Took me about 15mins to do. That was all for day one.
      Day 2. - Another questionnaire to fill out, our goals, strengths etc. (we had 3 days to fill this out). Took me about an 1h15min to fill it out. That was all for day 2.
      Day 3. - Nothing.
      Day 4. - Pick an area that you know nothing about and go to the WAR Room and download the free WSO on that topic. Spend 2-3 hours today learning that topic.
      Day 5.- Nothing
      Day 6.- Nothing
      Day 7.- Nothing
      Day 8.- Nothing
      Day 9.- Nothing

      I have not heard from this guy for 5 days I have emailed his business email, personal email, left a msg for him on Myspce which he was on this day, sent him a tweet (which he updates every couple of hours but I think this maybe on auto), contacted his brother and sister on Facebook (nothing back).

      Talked to another person on the program and they are having the same problems as me. Thought that maybe something bad had happen to him (even checked the weather report for his area) but when I saw that he had logged into My space and he was alive and online what am I meant to think.

      So what I did Rich is I started a theard like you have, applied for a refund from seller, applied for refund through Paypal and the best part is I wrote a review in the WF reveiw section. I included the guys name in the title and it comes up on the front page of google.

      Without going into it to much more I hope to have my funds back in my account by the end of this week.

      Also I contacted Master card and they said that once Paypal is finished (if I don't get my money back) I can lodge a fraudulent claim because money was taken and no services provided (I know yours is a bit different but I think you get the idea).

      The guy has tried to play hard ball and stall with giving my a refund however if I don't receive it I will use all my IM skills and let the whole world know the type of person he is, I may do this any way because what he has done is wrong and I hope no one else has to go through what I did. I just don't want to waste to much time on this.

      What gets me is that if this was a brick and mortar business this would not happen. I would love to get my hands on these people.

      Hope this helps mate, contact me if I can be of any help..
      Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by bluenetworx View Post

      You can get your money back from Paypal even if it is not a physical product, here's how: Call them and tell them you never received anything from this person, and then initiate a dispute and then escalate the dispute into a claim. Paypal when then be forced to contact the merchant and ask him for proof of shipping, which he will not be able to provide because it is not a physical product!

      Then paypal will reverse the transaction back to you, just make sure you do not mention to paypal that you ever received anything or they will not help you.

      So how would this not make you equally a scamming liar?
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      • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
        Wow thanks everybody for your ideas opinions etc. Just to clear up a couple of things.

        As I said I did file a dispute with PP and they replied that they wouldn't intercede because it was a virtual product. The emails I sent came after. Having said that I may well file another using some of the ideas here

        I know he has seen at least the PM's because I can see from his profile that he has logged in both at his own forum and here.

        I will give him another 48 hrs or so and then try a couple of the PP methods you guys have suggested but then I'll just let it lie, I know i could go out and cause this guy some hassle with posts etc but TBH it seems a bit counter productive, the lost cash isn't going to bankrupt me, and the negative mindset is just getting in the way :confused:

        Once again thanks guys and hopefully I will hear from him sooner rather than later and if and when that happens will let you know.
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        • Profile picture of the author DreamShaper
          Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

          Wow thanks everybody for your ideas opinions etc. Just to clear up a couple of things.

          As I said I did file a dispute with PP and they replied that they wouldn't intercede because it was a virtual product. The emails I sent came after. Having said that I may well file another using some of the ideas here

          I know he has seen at least the PM's because I can see from his profile that he has logged in both at his own forum and here.

          I will give him another 48 hrs or so and then try a couple of the PP methods you guys have suggested but then I'll just let it lie, I know i could go out and cause this guy some hassle with posts etc but TBH it seems a bit counter productive, the lost cash isn't going to bankrupt me, and the negative mindset is just getting in the way :confused:

          Once again thanks guys and hopefully I will hear from him sooner rather than later and if and when that happens will let you know.

          I understand the value of your time.
          And why you might not want to 'go all out' to get a refund the loss of which will not bankrupt you.

          The problem is that this is precisely what the scammers depend on and profit from.
          That only a few customers will be angry enough at a substandard product to demand the promised refund. And that if the scammer stalls and makes it difficult to get the refund then even some of the angry ones will give up.

          The more profit you leave in the hands of these scammers the more power they have to continue their scams.

          If the service was not delivered then try to find an efficient and effective way to force the refund.
          You note there have been several good suggestions here about the paypal dispute procedure and about your credit card company if that was what funded paypal.

          You say it might be counter productive to put out a lot of posts about this product or marketer. Think of it as a social service. Not out of revenge and not personal - you need not mention the marketer by name. (and while not being a lawyer from legal point of view libel/slander/defamation could be better to avoid the personal.) BUT identify the product you bought and the experience you received. If the product did NOT do what it 'said on the tin' then state that clearly with any proof that is to hand. if the refund process was not honored in timely fashion then report that.

          This way fellow marketers can be warned about the product. I was really pleased to find warnings about Affiliate Annihilation on these forums. I hope I can find other honest reports from buyers of products here and other places on internet that can help me qualify a product before buying it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MatthewM
      Originally Posted by bluenetworx View Post

      You can get your money back from Paypal even if it is not a physical product, here's how: Call them and tell them you never received anything from this person, and then initiate a dispute and then escalate the dispute into a claim. Paypal when then be forced to contact the merchant and ask him for proof of shipping, which he will not be able to provide because it is not a physical product!

      Then paypal will reverse the transaction back to you, just make sure you do not mention to paypal that you ever received anything or they will not help you.
      This only works if the seller can't prove you received it. Server logs tell a different story.


      Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

      It's a darn shame when someone can't back up their hype.

      PayPal sucks for these e-purchases(aka "downloads"). The last time I required a refund and they wouldn't give one over a digital product, I took it upon myself to contact my bank (funds were withdrawn to PayPal via the bank) and my bank took care of it.
      Banks sometimes charge a fee for this kind of service. Maybe best to cut your losses. You did receive what you paid for after all
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      • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
        Hi Mathew

        Well actually no I didn't receive it in the end because its a member site and as I mentioned he locked me out, so in effect I didn't receive it.

        I was going to let it go but tbh he really has annoyed me big style, actually having the front to cancel my membership and still not give me my refund really does suck.

        One of my staff finishes up a project at the end of next week so am going to let her loose on this. Maybe when he starts to see his name plastered all over the net he might actually grant my refund but more importantly hopefully will attract other people who have also been ripped off by him, so we can all get together and have a group cry, LOL.

        As I said before, this is no longer just about the money, more about how seriously aggrieved I feel. Not just with him but with myself to, after 5 years full time online I should have known better.

        Last time I trust someone by proxy, and when the marketer who hosted himon his webinar, sends me another recommendation or webinar invite will politely write back and tell him why I won't be attending
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        • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
          Someone mentioned earlier that you should contact the webinar host. I.e. the guy that mailed you as you will be on his list. I know he wont give you a refund but he may be close enough to the vendor to convince him to do just that. Especially if you explain how this has caused you to lose confidence in him (or her?) as well. I can't guarantee the outcome but it's got to worth a shot before you throw in the towel completely.

          Just a note and absolutely no inference to anyone. Rich has been exactly right not to reveal the guy in question. Although it can be frustrating when you know you are in the right the rule is there to protect innocent people from unwarranted attack. Unfortunately like most rules to protect the innocent it often also protects the guilty. I don't for one second doubt anything Rich has said but it is only one side of a story. Less scrupulous people can (and have) cause havoc to reputations by "naming and shaming" and with only one side of the story there is no way to know the absolute truth.


          One way or another I hope you are able to get your final satisfaction - Best of luck Rich
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        • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
          Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

          Well actually no I didn't receive it in the end because its a member site and as I mentioned he locked me out, so in effect I didn't receive it.
          Hi there Rich. It's always nice to meet another member of the 'clan'!

          If you're in the US and the scammer is in the US, hasn't a federal law been broken? Bearing in mind that you have the scammer's name and contact details, couldn't you notify law enforcement authorities of the situation? I've got a feeling that after the scammer gets a phone call from the FBI, your refund might suddenly turn up...
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    It has only been a few days...

    He could be sick... Out of town... Doing other work for other clients...

    I could keep going on-and-on... Off the top of my head, I can see a couple dozen reasons why he may have not yet got to your refund request, and none of them define ill-will or malicious-intent...

    That reminds me... I haven't checked my PayPal email address in about three days... Maybe I need to go see if it is me you are talking about... WINK, although I haven't done a webinar recently...
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Wouldn't of been easier just to file the dispute on Paypal? You say PP wants nothing to do with it because it was a virtual product is pure nonsense. File the dispute and be done with it. That way you won't have to keep writing posts like this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author redfc
    If those money you pay through paypal is withdrawn from your Credit card or debit card not all is lost (this happens when your paypal doesn't have enough fund). You can lodge a dispute with your credit card center. In this case the bank will dispute the money with paypal.

    I'm filling a dispute too with one of the top service provider in the IM field for a cancelled service, which they refuse me a refund for a service they renew for the next 12 months.

    The CEO of the company is a fellow warrior too with lots of repu, I can really feel what you been through.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Sussman
    File the dispute with Paypal. I had a dispute with a digital product, and yes. they sided with me the purchaser. I got a full refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    Does the seller also sell the product on the forum? If so, maybe you could post a question in the thread, asking for clarification of the refund policy.

    Also, you could write a review in the products review section.
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  • Profile picture of the author anthon
    There are a lot of scams with paypal now days.
    Always try to investigate if anything is scam or not before taking action.
    You can case a paypal dispute to solve the problem. OR call them for faster reply otherwise you need to wait for days to get reply.
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    • Profile picture of the author mauricio.quito
      Just go on with the paypal dispute, on my opinion he has had a lot of chance already.

      PS: I hate when they disappear....
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      • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
        Yup is becoming a pain

        The product was initially a WSO but is now closed so I can't post a question there.

        As I mentioned before I really didn't expect this kind of thing from a warrior with a good rep and a decent rep outside the forum, live and learn I guess.

        I have been full time online for 4 years now and this is only the second time I've not been able to get a refund for a product where they stated there was one. There's a lot to be said for Clickbank at least you know you are safe with them
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        • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
          Quick update

          I did get a pm from him in his forum giving me a different email address to send the request to, which I did and surprise surprise he totally ignored it.

          To add insult to injury he has now blocked my account from accessing his forum or any of the course materials

          So I thought to myself well now I can legitimately contact paypal and say I didn't receive the product but it won't let me open a new dispute as there is a closed one for that transaction and I can't reopen the old one either.

          I was going to let it lie and move on but to actual close my membership and still not give me a refund is like sticking his fingers up at me and saying "na na na na na" nothing you can do about it I'm untouchable

          Apparently he is relaunching the product in October with a couple of more reputable marketers, not sure if they know the kind of guy they are getting into bed with but even if I don't do something about this now, when he launches, I will cut my nose off to spite my face and have all my staff publicise his scam via forums article directories etc, including all the email and pms I sent him, which I have kept

          I know the "outing" of fellow warrior members is forbidden and for the most part I agree with it, but when you have a warrior member blatantly scamming another and there is no recourse, it is very frustrating.

          Especially since he is still active here and giving advice and assume he will have another product in here soon and yet any warriors who have not dealt with him before will have no idea what his "word" is worth ie NADA

          Anyway my rant is over, off to plan my next course of action
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  • Profile picture of the author script-store
    Just keep escalating the paypal dispute,He will have to respond then,
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    • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
      I would love to but as I said the dispute is closed and I can't reopen it or open a new one
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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    this just shows that the method of making a thousand bucks just isn't what he claimed it is?
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  • Profile picture of the author seoweb2000
    I am really surprise that this guy would completely ignore you like this. I thought the general policy in the im community was u give out refunds and keep the customer happy. I would give a customer a refund for whatever reason even if it is out of the return period what is the point of having one unsatisfied and po customer that can do damage to the brand and the rep of the product creator.

    My advice would be to try to resolve the issue, but if at the end of the day you do get the action that you are looking for, go to ripoffreport.com and submit ripoff report about him and his product. That way whenever someone is google is name or product+review. It would come up.. He will end up losing thousands in sales as a result of this. GL
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    • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
      Thanks seoweb have added that site to my favorites. It would appear this will not get resolved although maybe he will login here again today and see this post and finally decide enough is enough and play fair, who knows.
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  • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
    I dont trust paypal as far as I can trust them.

    Whenever you have $100k+ a month in your account, its key that you withdraw DAILY!

    Back on topic,

    Paypal aint much help when you get scammed out of your money.
    Unless you purchased via CC and do a chargeback I say you lost your money.

    It sucks but thats the way it is
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    • Profile picture of the author thinkrich
      Originally Posted by macchiavelli View Post

      I dont trust paypal as far as I can trust them.

      Whenever you have $100k+ a month in your account, its key that you withdraw DAILY!

      Back on topic,

      Paypal aint much help when you get scammed out of your money.
      Unless you purchased via CC and do a chargeback I say you lost your money.

      It sucks but thats the way it is
      Paypal are a law unto themselves. Like Insurance companies, they will find any excuse NOT to pay out and can freeze your account without notice. It usually takes 6 calendar months to unfreeze your account and you have no recourse.

      $100k a month huh?

      I would start withdrawing @ $1,000 as a test to see whether they will pay you or whether they will freeze your account (which they sometimes do).

      Then take out higher amounts as progressive payments.

      Heck, I would be happy with $100 a month.

      It's YOUR money, not theirs. You worked your butt off for it, not them.

      Once you have it in your mitts, you can do whatever you want with it. Getting it from Paypal to you is the key.

      Start small, Think Big, ThinkRich!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Don't know if this applies in your case, but ... make sure you're following the correct procedure for requesting a refund. Some merchants make it more difficult by requiring you send a refund request in writing, or specifying that you use a specific form on a specific web page. If you don't follow their procedure they will deny or ignore the request. If a dispute is filed they can point to their return/refund policy and say you didn't follow the procedure. They count on the hassle to get a refund keeping the refunds down.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    While I think its not cool that the seller has not responded to you, I am still a little unclear on the reason for the refund in the first place. Very seldom do two products have the EXACT same information. You mean there was absolutely nothing in their product that you could use or implement or test within the 30 day period to see if the ROI was worth the investment? Just wondering.....

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author millionairenewbie
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
      Rod, it is a bit complicated without giving away who the guy is as it was a WSO not long ago. Basically there was nothing new in the product at all. The other course had much more information and this one had nothing different except a couple of age old tactics that any Warrior would know.

      Its my fault for believing the pitch webinar and buying it in the first place but he should be living up to his 30 day no questions asked refund regardless.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hanz
        Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

        Rod, it is a bit complicated without giving away who the guy is as it was a WSO not long ago. Basically there was nothing new in the product at all. The other course had much more information and this one had nothing different except a couple of age old tactics that any Warrior would know.

        Its my fault for believing the pitch webinar and buying it in the first place but he should be living up to his 30 day no questions asked refund regardless.
        Yep. Don't add a refund guarantee if you have no intention of refunding. BTW, sent you a pm.
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        • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
          Just wanted to say I appreciate everybody chiming in with comments etc but please don't PM asking me to give you the name.

          I don't spend enough time in here to be honest but I do respect the rules and giving away this guys name in a PM is not much different than naming it in a post so sorry guys.

          Besides I have a funny feeling everyone will know it soon enough
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          • Profile picture of the author Hanz
            Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

            Just wanted to say I appreciate everybody chiming in with comments etc but please don't PM asking me to give you the name.

            I don't spend enough time in here to be honest but I do respect the rules and giving away this guys name in a PM is not much different than naming it in a post so sorry guys.

            Besides I have a funny feeling everyone will know it soon enough
            You're free to comment on his WSO about your displeasure seeing that you're a customer of his.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

        Rod, it is a bit complicated without giving away who the guy is as it was a WSO not long ago. Basically there was nothing new in the product at all. The other course had much more information and this one had nothing different except a couple of age old tactics that any Warrior would know.

        Its my fault for believing the pitch webinar and buying it in the first place but he should be living up to his 30 day no questions asked refund regardless.
        Ok thank you for clarifying. Any progress on this?

        RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
    It's a darn shame when someone can't back up their hype.

    PayPal sucks for these e-purchases(aka "downloads"). The last time I required a refund and they wouldn't give one over a digital product, I took it upon myself to contact my bank (funds were withdrawn to PayPal via the bank) and my bank took care of it.
    Signature

    I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

    Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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  • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
    Hey Lauryn, thanks for the idea, won't work for me because my payment came out of my paypal balance, so the bank can't help.

    Just to let you all know another 5 or 6 emails later and nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

      Hey Lauryn, thanks for the idea, won't work for me because my payment came out of my paypal balance, so the bank can't help.

      Just to let you all know another 5 or 6 emails later and nothing.
      Can't help you bud. Cut your losses and move on like all the other people who will end up getting scammed by this guy. Nice to see the rules allowing scammers to get away with cheating people. You can't reveal his name and people will continue getting robbed. Phew!
      You shouldn't have even bothered making this thread. We didn't really get anywhere at the end did we? LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

    I bought a product/course about 3 weeks ago that was promoted on a webinar hosted by a very reputable marketer, which had a guest that promoted the product I bought, you know the kind of thing, right?

    Now this cost a couple of hundred bucks and although I had seen the topic covered before in another product, the speaker gave a good impression that he had the real low down on the method and as he stressed that there was a no questions asked 30 day full cash refund I thought what the heck I'll take a look.

    Anyway after going through the course there was nothing new at all and I had seen it all before in another product so decided I would ask for a refund.

    I sent an email to the 2 email adresses I had for him (one was the paypal email) and 3 days later no reponse. So next I thought I'd send him a pm in the products forum. Another 2 days passed and still nothing, even though the marketer had been in the forum and made a couple of posts.

    So I made a forum post, nothing nasty or negative just simply asked where and how I could get a refund. The next day I logged in to find the post had been deleted and still no reply from the marketer although I did get 2 messages from other members saying they were having the same problems getting their "no questions asked refund" too.

    Alarm bells started to ring so knowing he was a warrior logged in here and sent him a pm. Still no reply. I have sent a refund request to paypal but as we all know they ignore anything that is not a physical product which is shipped, so I am not holding out much hope on that front.

    So where would you go from here? As I mentioned he is a warrior member and has a bit of rep here with a few hundred posts and about a hundred thanks so really am at a loss to wonder why he is ignoring refund requests, especially since he claims to be making thousands a day from this method alone.

    So what do you think fellow warriors? I considered making a post asking if anyone knew how to contact him but thought would see what more seasoned warriors advised.

    Many thanks for reading this
    Paypal has no seller protection from what I understand when it comes to digitally delivered products, I have had a few refund requests for a software I sell and they were scammers for sure, we have ways of finding out, but my point is that paypal had no problem issueing them a refund and freezing their exact payment amount to me, once they made a request for a refund.

    So, I think that you will get your money back....
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    • Profile picture of the author noangel
      I've had a couple of occasions I needed to ask Paypal for a refund
      of a downloadable product... once was because I never received
      the product at all.

      In the case of a digital product, as soon as it is escalated, Paypal
      closes the case and sends an email to say digital products are not
      supported. End of story. This has been my experience.

      The only time I could get any help was if I paid with Paypal via my
      credit card and then the card company helped me. Paypal frowns
      on this and I've heard of accounts being closed when going directly
      to your Bank.

      If anyone knows a way to get Paypal to refund a digital product if
      you pay using your Bank or Paypal balance, I would love to hear it!
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      • Profile picture of the author DeanCapture
        So, there is a policy here that states that a Warrior member can rip you off... and you can't come here and mention their name?

        Am I understanding this correctly?

        It seems like the owner of this board would want to warn others about a member who is ripping off other members. No???
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        • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
          Its the rules and I kind of understand why they are there but yes it can be a tad frustrating when you get a warrior refusing to honor his refund promise.

          On that note the marketer who hosted the webinar where I bought from the other guy is having another webinar tonight so I'll get there early and see what he has to say, he normally arrives 15 mins early with his tech guy for impromptu chat, so hopefully I get a reply from him.
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          • Profile picture of the author DeanCapture
            Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

            Its the rules and I kind of understand why they are there but yes it can be a tad frustrating when you get a warrior refusing to honor his refund promise.
            What does the rule say specifically? If a member of this community blatantly rips you off, you can't come here and say who did it? is that the rule? I looked around for the rule but couldn't find that particular rule. Did I overlook the rule or is it an unspoken rule?

            Seems to me that the owner of this board would feel a duty to warn others about a guy who is ripping off members of his community. Maybe it's just easier not to get involved, to turn your head and look the other way and gag your members from discussing the particulars of the matter. Maybe he'd have a different outlook if it was his money that got ripped???

            If this were my community...and one of my members ripped off another one, I'd contact the thief and tell him that he had 24 hours to remedy the issue or he'd be banned for life from this community. It's a no brainer if you have morals and a conscious!
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            • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
              Originally Posted by DeanCapture View Post

              What does the rule say specifically?
              A: MAIN FORUM RULE

              If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.


              As quoted from the Forum Rules - Warrior Forum Helpdesk

              And while I certainly understand and sympathize with the frustration that the OP is experiencing I still think it's a good rule, and I commend the OP for obeying it in this post.

              It is NOT the forum owners or moderators responsibility to police the actions that occur between members of the forum. There are almost a quarter of a million members here, the size of a small city. In any group of people that size you are bound to have all sorts - honest people (who I expect are the majority here) as well as dishonest ones. It's just a sad fact of life.

              Allowing members to openly air disputes with other members could have serious consequences, and would permit you to defame and destroy the reputation of other marketers, legitimately or illegitimately.

              Sites like ripoffreport have to contend with this possibility all the time, and may make a better venue to air a dispute like this.

              Bill
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              • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
                Here is the original email I received and replied to.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "The xxxxx Whatever"
                To: "Leah"
                Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:08 PM
                Subject: Leah (personal) - please RSVP tonight


                Hi Leah,

                Check this out:
                http www dot Homexxxxxxxxxsiness dot info

                I'm going to begin promoting this
                *aggressively* and had to find out if you
                want to get a TOP position before I
                get started. This could mean serious
                spillover for you in a company that pays
                out massive commissions to the field...

                Let me know by tonight if possible.

                Also, if you decide to join send me your
                affiliate link so I can start promoting it for
                you. I'm expecting this to pay off HUGE
                for both of us and I want you in at the top
                with me in this so we can profit together.

                Join here:
                http www dot Homexxxxxxxsiness dot info

                Then contact me privately at: Personalemail@gmail.com

                Please confirm receipt of this message.

                Thanks for your support!


                ------------Reply posted here:

                You can use the Reply to the above email as an outline for your reply to any guru marketing emails you receive. Maybe these big-time Marketers need to be checked at the door. If they think you don't know better, they are NOT going to stop. They will continue to lure the not-so-experienced ones into their trap of what "most people" will do. These guy are too good at what they do for "most people"...don't you think?
                --------------------------------------------------------

                I have had a lot of experience dealing with criminals in general and depending on how much money you want to spend, it is possible to make your dreams for these guys come true eventually.

                Here are a few ideas:

                Hire a good private investigator - Cost: Varies but Ebay has a very good selection and prices can't be beat.

                Armed and dangerous with information, here's the plan. Don't do anything illegal - that won't work here. You are in this business to help everyone you can. Here's your opportunity to "help" this person see the error of his ways.

                Now decide what you want him to do. Just refund your money and let him go to his own form of hell and damnation for the rest of lonely, useless life. That's a little harsh, don't you think. You can't help everyone but this guy has a special place in your heart right about now, doesn't he? Okay.

                If you decide to take pity on his poor lost soul, you have to help him change his mind. He has to think about what is going to happen if he doesn't. The more people trying to help his see his dismal future, the better.

                Start a campaign with a strategically worded domain name and a series of SEO optimized blogs, sites, lens, classified ads, banners, you name it. Invite his members and customers to join you in your self-less efforts to steer this poor, unsuspecting person in the right direction. He knows not what he does and you are asking for everyone's help in this regard. Make your efforts truthful, show proof without slander. You are his savior now. Start your own tribe and Go save him!

                P.S. In case you don't know this already, you will make many great contacts while helping this person, some may prove to be priceless. That's just what happens when you truly help others. :rolleyes:
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                I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]

                When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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              • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
                Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

                Allowing members to openly air disputes with other members could have serious consequences, and would permit you to defame and destroy the reputation of other marketers, legitimately or illegitimately.
                That sounds good in theory, but at the end of the day WF is pretty much the only forum that does not allow public disputes. We just do not see any real negative side effects on the more liberal forums. While people are occasionally wrongly called out, such instances generally end with the defamer having damaged their own credibility.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                  Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

                  That sounds good in theory, but at the end of the day WF is pretty much the only forum that does not allow public disputes. We just do not see any real negative side effects on the more liberal forums. While people are occasionally wrongly called out, such instances generally end with the defamer having damaged their own credibility.
                  That's why I like this forum vs. the others that just turn into a free-for-all of finger pointing, fighting, flaming, and worse.

                  It really is between the two parties so go sue them, blog about them, tweet about it but I'm glad it's kept out of here.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ing-forum.html

                I'm glad this was resolved - but honestly a bit revolted by some of the suggestion made in this thread.

                Revenge and retribution will often backfire and make you look petty, negative and spiteful. If a paypal complaint is denied - you can't refile it. Spending a lot of time trying to "get back" at someone isn't productive.

                I agree the Paypal excuse is a common one - and everyone is always ready to blame big, bad paypal for everything. I doubt you would have posted about this had you heard back form the seller a day or two after you requested a refund - even if he said there was a delay. His bad - but at least it worked out.

                kay
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                Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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              • Profile picture of the author Trish Mullen
                Hi Rich

                If it's who I'm thinking of then I wrote an article review just after the launch and ahead of future launches also.

                How about doing a YouTube Video Review of the product, you can do this tactfully and objectively although from experience, you can state it is no different to previous and appears to be, in your opinion regurgitated c***.

                I'm really sorry to hear about this. I think what surpised me even more was some of the responses on here. There seems to be a general air of acceptance around some Warriors that this goes on and just 'accept it'. It will continue to go on also so long as that type of attitude continues. Honest marketers need to stand up and be counted, not suppressed which is what happens sometimes in this forum.

                I hope you get it resolved Rich.

                Trish
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                • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
                  Originally Posted by Trish Mullen View Post

                  Hi Rich

                  If it's who I'm thinking of then I wrote an article review just after the launch and ahead of future launches also.

                  How about doing a YouTube Video Review of the product, you can do this tactfully and objectively although from experience, you can state it is no different to previous and appears to be, in your opinion regurgitated c***.

                  I'm really sorry to hear about this. I think what surpised me even more was some of the responses on here. There seems to be a general air of acceptance around some Warriors that this goes on and just 'accept it'. It will continue to go on also so long as that type of attitude continues. Honest marketers need to stand up and be counted, not suppressed which is what happens sometimes in this forum.

                  I hope you get it resolved Rich.

                  Trish
                  Well, I guess Trish is right..I'm surprised too. Doesn't anyone have anything to say? Nobody sees the opportunity to help and benefit at the same time? That's all right. Some people are just too scared to knock on a few doors, make a few phone calls.

                  I'm beginning to wonder if this forum is about making money while helping others or all a bunch of talking while hoping to make money ON each other. Whatever happened to capitalizing on solutions for problems - especially problems that don't cost anything to fix. Maybe I'm just confused but I'm pretty sure the money is out there. Yes, I just checked. It is.

                  I KNOW! Now I know...I'm supposed to get someone to write this "secret" idea into the latest traffic-stopping trend setting ebook - Maybe even arrange some real Criminal Consultants and Warloads to make people real curious. Still, not enough money in here, It's OUT there!!!
                  Signature

                  I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]

                  When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    If it cost more than $200 and he lives in a different state than you, drop a complaint with the local FBI field office.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    The best option is to get in touch with a mod or admin, to see if they can get in contact with him on your behalf, no need to burn bridges just yet
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  • Profile picture of the author michael_dans
    After so many comments posted here I could only add one thing that may be the person from whom you purchased, is not available for some days. Posting work can be continued by someone else in the family or from other team members but refund cannot.
    I know this is just an assumption but lets hope for the safer side and try making some alarming guest posts to him. May be it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author harrel
    Hey guys we all should learn a lesson here, whenever we launch a product we should make sure to put our greed aside and if a customer is unhappy, we should give him full refund + gift to make sure that he don't ruin our reputation. Cause reputation is a key thing which help us sell more products.
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  • Profile picture of the author mintdesignnz
    hmmm... a dot info site selling products...
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    • Profile picture of the author rich_henderson
      Well an important update here

      I finally received a pm here from the marketer saying he was sorry for delay in refund and blamed it on PP for causing some problems. Now we all know PP can be a apin in the rear on both sides of the fence but my biggest grievance was that he had been totally blanking me for 2 weeks, even though he had been logging in here and his own forum every day.

      Anyway he went on to say that the marketer who hosted the webinar for him would be contacting me with a refund, which was extremely weird but anyway...........

      I received an email from the marketer who hosted the webinar stating the probs etc with paypal and that he was going to reimburse me. But he said they were now launching the product again together, this time on CB at a much higher price and would I be interested in staying on. If not he would refund me.

      I replied that I still wanted refund and today I received my refund.

      So long story short I am a much happier bunny

      No idea what went on and why I recieved the refund from the "wrong" marketer but all is well that ends well.

      However needless to say will never buy a product from the original marketer again. All it needed was communication and I didn't get that.

      Ironically my estimation of the other marketer who I already trusted and respected has gone up.

      Anyway thanks everyone for your suggestions and help, especially those that actually read the whole thread. Having a band of warriors whose shoulders we can cry on is a wonderful thing and maybe I will now spend more time here in the future.

      You guys rock!
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      • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
        Originally Posted by rich_henderson View Post

        Well an important update here

        I finally received a pm here from the marketer saying he was sorry for delay in refund and blamed it on PP for causing some problems. Now we all know PP can be a apin in the rear on both sides of the fence but my biggest grievance was that he had been totally blanking me for 2 weeks, even though he had been logging in here and his own forum every day.

        Anyway he went on to say that the marketer who hosted the webinar for him would be contacting me with a refund, which was extremely weird but anyway...........

        I received an email from the marketer who hosted the webinar stating the probs etc with paypal and that he was going to reimburse me. But he said they were now launching the product again together, this time on CB at a much higher price and would I be interested in staying on. If not he would refund me.

        I replied that I still wanted refund and today I received my refund.

        So long story short I am a much happier bunny

        No idea what went on and why I recieved the refund from the "wrong" marketer but all is well that ends well.

        However needless to say will never buy a product from the original marketer again. All it needed was communication and I didn't get that.

        Ironically my estimation of the other marketer who I already trusted and respected has gone up.

        Anyway thanks everyone for your suggestions and help, especially those that actually read the whole thread. Having a band of warriors whose shoulders we can cry on is a wonderful thing and maybe I will now spend more time here in the future.

        You guys rock!
        This guy took about 8 hours longer than most of them do. They ALWAYS blame something else in order to make it look like there was a good reason for avoiding you for 2 weeks. That makes feel justified enough to suddenly wake up and come forward even though Paypal would have denied your refund claim.

        Here's my question and the reason for posting this again. I want to know if anyone is interested in doing what you just did because you care and because you are not afraid to fight for right...stand tall for what you believe instead of the rest who don't stand at all.


        Does anyone want to be the local city/state "Regulator" with your own authority site similar to www.spydudes.net but with way more unique and relevant content completely optimized? There are unspoken methods guru-types are either too greedy or too afraid to talk about out of turn. The first one to reveal each new but old "secret" is carefully planned and plotted for the benefit of all who go with the flow. Hear that? All you gone-gurus, contact this thread-maker and do some good.

        Normally the offender would have been charged a daily service fee for making you wait longer than what his guarantee states and would have gladly paid that rather than be exposed by how many people already are here representing how many different areas?

        I don't know about everyone else, but I would really like to make a difference to the underdog, the ones who are trampled on for no good reason. Especially the elderly who are targeted and have nowhere to turn because they are not familiar with Web 2.0 yet and The Next Web is already on the way.

        What happens to the few refund-bullies who don't care what happens? That's okay too. We just put their methods on display in the scam zoo, (www.scamzoo.com) another site to drive traffic through while doing a public service for the benefit of everyone, especially the victims who see what happened and move on instead of give up and quit.

        Every single Warrior who commented here needs to hear what Seth Godin says about people just like you: http://wealthlpp.com/tribe Even if you think I'm a crazy nut-case, Seth Godin clearly knows what he's talking about and it's not just about tribes either. Are you a linchpin? You have to THINK but there is no cost, nothing to buy. Everything has been paid for but nothing much can be accomplished without thinking PEOPLE. People who think just like you.

        btw: In case it makes a difference, I have Dennis Graham, the Chief of Police in Milpitas, CA ready to support any program that stops any form of crime. He already knows I'm going to figure out how to monetize him and his career in law enforcement too. Any ideas would be helpful. I grew up next door to Dennis and his brother Mike, who just happens to be a detective. I didn't realize our families have been friends for over half a century until our parents celebrated their 50th Wedding Anniversary together.


        Hire a good private investigator - Cost: Varies but Ebay has a very good selection and prices can't be beat.

        Armed and dangerous with information, here's the plan. Don't do anything illegal - that won't work here. You are in this business to help everyone you can. Here's your opportunity to "help" this person see the error of his ways.

        Now decide what you want him to do. Just refund your money and let him go to his own form of hell and damnation for the rest of lonely, useless life. That's a little harsh, don't you think. You can't help everyone but this guy has a special place in your heart right about now, doesn't he? Okay.

        If you decide to take pity on his poor lost soul, you have to help him change his mind. He has to think about what is going to happen if he doesn't. The more people trying to help his see his dismal future, the better.

        Start a campaign with a strategically worded domain name and a series of SEO optimized blogs, sites, lens, classified ads, banners, you name it. Invite his members and customers to join you in your self-less efforts to steer this poor, unsuspecting person in the right direction. He knows not what he does and you are asking for everyone's help in this regard. Make your efforts truthful, show proof without slander. You are his savior now. Start your own tribe and Go save him!
        Signature

        I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]

        When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author mkl3377
    LOL...this forum rocks!

    You know why you got the refund right? It's to stop the bad PR so they look good in later launches.

    The power of Warriors at work.
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    Michael Lee

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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    I think that Paypal will help you. When it's not a physical product and the seller doesn't have shipping proof Paypal supports the buyer 95% of the time. So I think that your best bet is to contact Paypal and go that route. You will probably get your money back in a month or so. It will take longer, but it's much better than simply losing the bucks.


    William
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Adams
    @sanssecret Sounds like the're on the side of the person that does the most business with them.
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