Frank Kern talks a lot about NLP, and definitely utilizes some basic NLP techniques in his launches.

Tony Robbins uses NLP *extensively* in both his techniques for personal development and removing barriers, as well as in his selling.

Also Blair Warren and Harlan Kilstein are big into NLP in marketing.

There are plenty of copywriters and article writers that use NLP with varying degrees of success. Some actually market themselves as NLP Copywriters.

It could be argued that any good copy/article, whether the author is aware of hypnosis/NLP or not, will have its fare share of hypnotic language patterns scattered amongst the text.

Peter

N.B. This post should probably be moved to either the Mind Warriors or the Copywriting forum.

Harlan Kilstein *excuse me for the spelling...) uses NLP. He claims to be very successful, but who doesn't?

studying NLP and persuasion literature will generally
make you a better marketer - more aware of the
subtleties of good communication.

Some of the better stuff I've read on the subject of
persuasion doesn't mention NLP - which is something
of a brand name anyway.

I did read one ebook some online marketer put out
about hypnotic language patterns. It was idiotic -
I guess he was trying to use the patterns to sell
his course, but he just came across as somebody who
couldn't write clearly.

I got certified as a practitioner years ago and love this stuff. I don't consider myself a pro by any means but I can tell you this...it simply works!

The most powerful core elements that I've found to work online is simply the understanding that people are often times more 'away from' than 'towards' motivated. There is a concept from evolutionary psychology that supports this called "automatic vigilance"...while at one time it was very useful for humans to notice negative things (survival)...it's one of the reasons we sometimes have the tendency to focus on the negative and be more oriented in that way.



DISCOVER THIS SECRET OR YOUR HEAD WILL EXPLODE AND YOUR FAMILY WILL DIE

...is much more powerful

than

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO HAVE A TON OF MONEY

...unless that ton of money was linked to keeping your head from exploding or your family from dying.

that's my 2.5c on the topic


- Sean

The more you use NLP Persuasion Techniques the more persuasive you will become

I'm certified in NLP and Ericksonian Hypnosis. I trained in Ericksonian Hypnosis under Dr. Mike Mandel in Toronto.

My course (see signature file) is about using these tools for parents who are dealing with the Terrible Twos (and beyond). It simply works, in all aspects of life. Very powerful stuff.

I also highly recommend that you read Dr. Robert Cialdini's book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion".

It is in my top 5 books list.

thanks for all the replys, advise and information warriors.

I am going to focus a good portion of my daily routine to studying NLP, Persuicon, Hypnosis and all the rest of it from this day forward, it will no doubt be a very useful tool to sharpen.

Anyone know of any FREE resources and information/training bases purely on writing articles/internet marketing/copy writing/sales letters?

I qualified as a master NLP practitioner way back in
the 80's and I've studied with a few of the leading
NLP teachers including Bandler and Dilts.

I agree with Harlan that NLP should be used ethically.

NLP is a very powerful tool which should NEVER be used
to manipulate people.

Trying to use NLP without proper training is like trying to
drive a formula one racing car without a driving license.

If you are going to study NLP begin by using it first as a
self development tool.

The more you know about yourself, the better you will be
able to communicate with others.

John

The co-founder of NLP, Richard Bandler, wrote a book on the subject, called "Persuasion Engineering". Some of the stuff he says he got up to in the book probably skirted the borderland of Ethical more than a few times

Incidentally, this book goes, in my opinion, way beyond traditional "NLP" and shows you how to really think out of the box when it comes to sales and marketing.

So apart from my copywriting videos, I'd suggest the best place to learn how to apply NLP to sales and marketing, is from the horse's mouth.

One of my best landing pages, selling a 4 figure bootcamp, the headline started with "Imagine...",

got that one from my Agora ad copy swipe file!

NLP is incredible, I learned from taking courses, watching/studying the best closers on the real estate seminar circuit...

...and find it very powerful to use on a teleseminar..."You do want to start the New Year, $xxx wealthier don't you?"

Hi Harlan

I certainly respect your viewpoint, but I haven't had ANYONE yet express to me that they felt manipulated when they read my copy.

On the other hand, I've had people express that they were excited about it.

Surely an NLP teacher such as yourself should not speak in generalizations such as "People... they feel manipulated". Isn't that mind-reading?

I am making a serious point, though. I've heard the same argument leveled against just about EVERY sales tactic that has ever been used.

Besides, NLP is not an "art", it is a "science" (ask Bandler). So I "get" where you're coming from, but fail to see your point about "elegance". Bandler certainly wasn't "elegant" when he talked about the time he sold cars, sitting behind them in the back seat and saying, "You want this!" (among many other non-elegant NLP tactics he used.)

Yet he sure sold a whole lot of cars

In my opinion, I suspect that most of the people who read my sales letter don't feel manipulated at all, because if they DO notice the embedded stuff, it probably intrigues them, and if they DON'T notice it, it affects them, they buy, and then they want to know what motivated them to buy (which is fully explained).

Personally, I could say I feel manipulated by your post, which denigrates the "idiots and morons" who are, according to you, using NLP badly, while pitching the next version of your product, as superior.

But I won't say I feel manipulated, because I admire the skill of how you anchored bad feelings to your "competition"... very skillful!

Totally manipulative (in my opinion), but very skillful nonetheless.

Harlan, when you say elegant, you don't mean calling attention to someone else's work as an example of "how not to do" something as a way to establish contrasts and attention to yourself, do you?

Just curious.

Your physiology DVD was great btw.

I have used EFT, Hypnosis, NAC, and NLP. Currently, I only perform self hypnosis and EFT on myself. Both of these techniques help me to gain clarity and focus, which allows me to write faster and with much more intent than if I did not use anything at all.

I encourage anyone to use these techniques, especially if they experience "Writer's Block."

I am a NLP Practioner level "Student". I love the Study of Persuasion & Influence. But, I have to say that I find NLP, per se, quite useless in the real world. (I know, I'm pissing some people off, here, but, hear me out).

Most people attend NLP training and are enchanted by it, but even if they have some small success in the seminar setting, they typically find that they can't make it work the way it is supposed to in real world situations.

Let's face it, if NLP was the great modality that it's defenders claim it is, why aren't these same people living the successful life they claim it offers?

I dismiss NLP because I only want to use what gets me results in the real world. I feel I wasted my time and money in the study/pursuit of that skill. Now, I am glad I explored it, as it rounded out some of my understandings, but I had all the understanding I needed way before I got my Practioner's Certificate.

Although, there are many things that work. I just don't believe NLP is one of them. Matching & Mirroring...that doesn't gain you rapport, it is a bi-product of having rapport. Matching breathing & blink rates, what B.S. that is. It's too much work for minimal results. There are much easier, more effective ways.

I test things to see if I can get results with them. If I get the results, I keep it. If I don't get the results, I discard it. I am not emotionally attached to any technique that doesn't give me results.

So many defend NLP to their dying breath, but are they actually getting the results they were promised? Even Bandler, when it isn't working for him (he'll be in front of an audience, and) will tell the person who claims the change hasn't happened, that the change has been installed on an unconscious level. Good save there, buddy!

A couple of my favorite trainers are Tom Vizzini & Kim McFarland of Essential-Skills.com fame. There techniques work like gangbusters...and Harlan will be glad to know they do it in an elegant, seamless way that just gets the results. I also like Jamie Smart (from the UK). He is very talented, but he does teach alot of NLP, along with hypnotism and Influence.

I attempted to do a MySpace Blog on this, but I'm useless at Web 2.0 things, and was never able to figure out how to get the blog seen.

I was wanting to start a forum style group to train in result-getting techniques. I'd still like to do that.

Here are the first two posts I did:


To be able to Influence anyone you must be able to Capture and Lead their Imagination

Have you ever wanted to influence or persuade someone? Of course, everyone has. How'd that work out for you? For most people it is hit or miss. They try "talking someone into" something by trying to convince them, arguing, using reason, showing them facts and figures, etc...

I'll let you in on a secret - THAT DOESN'T WORK! all those "techniques" will be perceived by the person you are trying to influence as coming from outside of themselves. So, even if it is in their own best interest, they will resist it.

You're probably thinking, "OK, Adam, what do I do, then?" I'm glad you asked.

RULE 1: To be able to influence anyone you must be able to CAPTURE AND LEAD their IMAGINATION.

Whatever you can get a person to IMAGINE is perceived by them as BEING THEIR OWN THOUGHT and therefore they DO NOT RESIST IT.

That is worth reading again. I'll wait here.

Did you get that? Good. Put another way:

Let them Imagine it and it Becomes their Own Idea! Capture the Imagination and you capture the heart.

People will only do things once they first IMAGINE doing it.

On this blog we will be learning and practicing very suggestive ways of speaking that does capture and lead people's imaginations while still sounding like "normal" conversation. We will be giving people intense emotional experiences by involving all 5 of their senses.

This is Powerful! It a form of covert hypnosis. Done right, they will never see it coming. As far as the person you are influencing is concerned, they are having a normal conversation with someone who happens to be a fascinating conversationalist. They feel good!

Important note: We will always strive to sound "normal" when speaking. You don't want to be thought of as "That weird guy that talks funny". So many trainers teach it that way. Most people's first impulse when hearing you talk THAT way is to "grab the kids and run!" It's just creepy.

We on this blog will NEVER talk like that.

Next - People don't want "things" so much as the FEELINGS those things and experiences will give them. Having said that, we come to rule 2...

RULE 2: When influencing anyone, find out what their Ultimate Goal is and Lead Them through the States that get them to that goal, by doing what You Want.

Now, we should always strive for Win/Win situations. We don't want to be unethical, here. But let's face it, when you are persuading someone, you want something. What could be better than helping someone get what they want by doing (and/or giving you) what you want?

We will be learning "State Control", "Rapport", "Calibration", "Anchoring", "Language Patterns" that allow you to create states on the fly, and all things Covertly Influential.

Much of this we will be doing with language. Words are Containers for Power! Learn to use your words in a certain way and you become very powerful, indeed.

We are going to be covering all these things. AND we are going to be doing homework. (I heard you groan. Don't worry, this will be fun!) Each week I will be "assigning tasks" for you to "play" with, with the people you come in contact with in your daily life. We will be reporting back to the group about our experiences and get helpful input on how to "tweak" it to be easier/more influential. You will not be graded on this, but there will be tests ;-)

So, if this sounds like something you would like to do, just subscribe to this blog and we will get started. Imagine how powerful your influence skills will be as you easily and naturally apply these techniques to get what you want. Because when you use these skills, people cannot help but want to do the things you suggest. And, because you are using these skills for win/win outcomes, people will always feel better for having been in your presence. As you learn these techniques, you will notice that your relationships (and finances) will improve more than you could ever have imagined.

Come on in and join our elite group. Become the "go to" person that everyone seeks out when they need to convince somebody, of anything.

We will be getting started in a few days. I look forward to working with you.

Until then, Trance-On!
I'm,
Adam Kenzington


Listen For People's "TRANCE WORDS"

When you want to make sure what you are saying is registering with the person you are talking to, listen for and use that person's "Trance Words".

Trance Words are words and phrases that the person uses habitually (repeats often in conversation).

When you notice what these words are, repeat them back to them exactly as they spoke them.

There is an activity out there called "Active Listening" which practices listening to what someone said and then reinterpreting those words (paraphrasing) them into similar language. DON'T DO THIS! You will be shooting yourself in the foot. This will jeopardize your rapport with the person.

These "Trance Words" have Power and hold Great Emotion & Feeling for those who spoke them.

Don't re-interpret their words!

How many times have you said, or heard someone else say "That's not what I said!" "You are putting words in my mouth!"? You will come across as someone who doesn't listen and has twisted the facts to suit your own purposes.

Using their own words is not only safe, it's Essential! These are the very words they think with, and their very own words resound clearly and personally with them. You are talking their language. Talk about Instant Rapport! They will think to themselves "This guy makes sense. He get's it. I need to listen to him...", "I can trust what he says".

Remember...

If the Magic Word is "Abra Cadabra", it ain't goin'a work with "Ala Kazaam"!

On a similar note, take notice of the physical "gestures" someone makes when they are speaking. The way they gesture with their hands, a tilt of the head, or perhaps they lean forward when making a point, etc...

Then, when you want to make a point, use these same gestures back at them while doing this. This is perceived by the person as "marking out" something important that they should pay attention to. It also unconsciously creates and reinforces rapport with the person. Remember, "People like people who are like themselves".

By using these techniques you will gain great influence with these people. You will be speaking their language and setting yourself up, in their mind, as an Authority Figure. Someone they will pay greater attention to, while at the same time, they will not question your message as critically because you have already passed their "smell test". You will have established trust and belief within them, and you will more easily bypass their critical thinking, their "bullshit detector", if you will. Not that you will be slinging B.S., but your message will more easily and naturally be accepted as "truth", and acted upon with less resistance.

OK, that's it for today. Next time we will be studying "Intention", and how it is critical in all interactions with others. We will also be touching on "States" and "State Control".

If you have any questions on this, please feel free to ask them here, or at:

Until next time, try this stuff out for yourself,
I'm,
Adam Kenzington


I believe Persuasion & Influence techniques do work, but NLP as it is traditionally taught, I find very limited with regard to positive results.

PS. I know someone is going to point out that I bashed Matching & Mirroring and then advocated doing it in my blog post. Please note, words and movements that people use habitually (and unconsciously) are different than mimicking their breathing & blink rates. Focus on the habitual movements not the involuntary ones. Also, you don't need to do these things at the same time the other person is doing them (as taught in NLP), these are actions/words that are triggers (anchored) for these people. Fire them off when you are making your point. Use them strategically.

Don't surpose anyone knows of anyone near Ipswich in the UK who could help me...

Here is an example of how NOT to use hypnosis and NLP in marketing, in my own opinion. I do not intent to knock the site owner, but I would just do things differently if it was me:

(I found this just searching on the topic and opted into his newsletter. This is the thank you page)

Thank You

Well, this NLP thing certainly is getting a discussion going.
When I trained to do my Alexander Technique teacher certificate I was very lucky that our instructor was very well trained in NLP (by Grinder & Bandler, the 2 originators, actually). I found the study an absolute eye opener.

My approach to using NLP techniques is certainly in the choice of words but even more so in the realization that very few people take information in evenly and equally through all 3 senses (visual/auditory/kynesthetic) but are seriously lopsided towards one of the 3 and many towards the visual.
So for them reading a long sales letter might be a pain in the butt and watching a video all of a sudden makes complete sense.
You get what I mean...
There seems to be a lot more videos out there.
See, feel and listen.

Don't really know too much about NLP, but I've heard quite a bit about it. Does it really work?

This has been an interesting thread.

While I agree with some of the comments made here and John T and I have discussed NLP a lot over the years, I was still left with one feeling about this thread after reading all of the posts so far.......

Harlan - You're proclaiming 'correct' use of NLP and taking an authoritative stance on this - yet you're being so tactless in some of your posts criticizing other people and their approaches that it seems like you're not practicing what you're preaching.

Knowledge of NLP is only as useful as the way you act on it.

I'm familiar with NLP and I do understand your point and agree that it would seem more appropriate for people to discover the nlp environment before learning a few 'tricks' for how to 'use it on people', because it's actually a great tool for personal development as much as it's good for anything else.

I also love the metaphor and I've been using similar tools for helping recovery from illness.

Andy

Wow, Psychic NLP! Now there's a product...

{points to sig line}

LOL... you guys crack me up

Thanks Harlan.

No wonder some people take posts so personal and can be doubly open and abrasive in their response. They hear the banter returned in their own voice as they read it- confusing it with their negative self talk.

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read on this forum to date. Thanks for everyone who has posted here. I'm far from an expert on NLP but I've seen this stuff work and I like what I see.

Good stuff guys.

I'll chime in here on this.

I'm not in agreement on laying the NLP on thick to pick up women, but it is definitely NOT the equivalent of drugging someone. It is not magic and it is not mind control. Guys who pitch it that way are full of it.

I have a good friend who is really fantastic in conversation and people seem to always be interested in talking to him. Women especially. He has never studied NLP. But perhaps, I'd suggest ... he has unconsciously mastered the same tools

Remember, NLP is just a MODEL. It is not new. It is a description of what OTHER people are already doing to create a successful outcome.

Everyone has access to the toolbox. Some choose to make use of it, some do not.

Remember, there is no such thing as hypnosis. But if there were, then what would it look like

I read the whole thread.

Interesting.

I'm not an NLP expert, but if 'rapport' is the key of NLP, then why argue? Isn't arguing a lose-lose situation?

JK

Check out Amazon for a host of NLP books.
The Unfair advantage by D. Larkin presents it for business use.

In my previous real job I had to do a bit of studing on NLP for marketing.
It's all very clever stuff.
Derren Brown is a great exponent of it.

We all use it without knowing it. We use what works and keep using "it".

As someone who's done a heck of a lot of personal selling in his life then I can say absolutely that the 3 most important elements in any successful sales conversation are:-

1) Rapport
2) Enthusiasm
3) Rhythm

and

4) Confidence (OK, 4 things then)

NLP, to a large degree, seems to be a codification of what the most successful sales professionals have been doing for a long time, usually unconciously. It's always a good joke to see the NLP 'Ticks and Tricks' used on others (Derren Brown's taking money off a bookmaker on a losing bet is the classic) but it always seems so forced (or am I just more aware of what's going on?).

Yes, Frank Kern does use NLP, whether it's deliberate or not, but he seems to major on Rapport. Harlan is an Enthusiast. Mike Filsaime is Confident. Very little of the sales copy I see uses Rhythm at all well. However, put all that lot together and you've got Sales Dynamite!

Andy,

I've got a few other books I'm in the middle of right now, but I'll definitely be giving NLP further study at some point.

I think your advice to make what you learn 'your own' is a good call. We're all different characters, and we have to mould the principles around who we already are.

I don't think trying to become a totally different person to incorporate what you learn, is a good idea.

Are there any recommended audios on NLP (like mp3's of seminars, etc)?

JK

How do you exactly do this technique?

No I DO not.