For the me the problem is that even though there must be a product (ie. to make sure it's not just a passing money around deal) ... most of the people aren't in it for the product, don't really believe in the core product ... and really sell it on the making money aspect.

Not the value the product offers.

Plus I think the charasmatic guys who jump in and 'proclaim' that it's the easiest way to make money, the best thing since sliced bread ... and that the product will be in every household by [insert date] still puts me off.

But then I did only try one that a 'friend' sold me - was piled high with BS success stories about living in cars and being homeless - and revolved around selling/abusing your contacts.

No - that's nonsense. Plenty of illegal pyramid schemes have products. They've had them, and been selling them right up to the day that the court's closed them down for being an illegal pyramid scam.

By no means necessarily. There are many ways it can still be an illegal pyramid, according to courts and regulators.

I don't know who told you that illegal pyramids "don't have products", but it's not nearly as simple as that. Distinguishing between a legitimate MLM company and an illegal pyramid is by no means a trivial matter (unfortunately for the public). Individual cases are often debated in court extensively by lawyers on both sides, and until the court actually rules, nobody knows for sure.

I appreciate your opinion. Do your remember that MLM your body told you about?

Do you mean an MLM like the one you are promoting your affiliate link for?

That's DOUBLE proof the MLMs are bad, and you are only perpetuating that "stigma". Even though I wouldn't use the word "stigma", I would say "accurate assessment that MLMs are a sure ticket to failure".

All the best,
Michael

I don't believe that all major MLM offers are scams, most are not. The problem lies in the matrix or whatever they may call it. First of all people rarely buy health products unless they already have a problem to address. It's difficult to market good health.
So with most MLM companies the only way to make money is to recruit others to do the same, so in effect you are selling a dream not a product. And the dream they sell is often the "all the time in the world to spend with your family living off the RESIDUAL income." But most get shattered when their friends and family reject them and they quit in no time. So that "you get only 2 and they get their 2" and so on myth never materializes.

The ones who succeed in MLM are the ones selling the shovels to the gold diggers.
You can succeed at MLM but you absolutely need to be:

1-A SuperDuper Salesperson (ha ha it really is sales)
2- An Awesome teacher/trainer.
3- A superb motivator.

Missing one of those it ain't gonna work.

Alright Alright, I am loving these awnsers now let me ask you this? So if a MLM was very reputable and is backed by the Federal Trade Commission, does this make a difference? I am pretty sure the FTC wouldn't back a scam?

This discussion reminds me of a web page I read many, many years ago entitled...

What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?

I've never participated in MLM or network marketing myself, though I do know of people who have joined at some point in their lives. A lot of them have since dropped out of the programs they joined but I still know a few who continue to be active participants.

The only thing I have against the people who tried to market or recruit a network marketing program to me is the way they did it. Some have outright lied about the purpose of the 'meeting' they were inviting me to, and others use the 'material' aspect of money to get me in. I'm not attracted by quick riches, material things or easy money. I'm not saying every network marketer does the same thing but from my encounters the most popular sales pitch was all about how much money one of their associates was making, the new luxury car someone bought, etc. None of them really talked about the merits of the program or the products being offered.


JP

Jp

I see your point, and I like your post. And your right, a lot of ppl promote everything else but the product, and their should be some changes that in MLM you must promote the product and not the riches.

For the people that tried to convince you to their mlm and they lied? I hope these are not your friends!! People want the truth, not suprises!! I know their are alot of different types of Marketing, and that MLM is not for everyone.

Just because a company is ranked number 37 in the world's top 500 companies does not mean that you'll make a good income or an honest income selling their products using some MLM scheme.

The biggest problems I've seen with MLM schemes are:

# The distributors make their main income through the sale of tools like tapes, books and seminar tickets. It could even be argued that since these tool sales are sold through their network of distributors that this is a well disguised pyramid system.


# The training systems are designed to stop any kind of objective analysis of the products, the training system and people's committment and involvment and their real income after expenses.

The average MLM distributor does not make a profit after the expenses of travel, tools and time. They would be far better off working a few hours at any reasonably paid job.

In many cases they would be better off working a few extra hours at minimum wage.


# Most MLM systems are promoting passive income as a reason to become involved and build a large network.

But the reality of organizing and motivating large groups of people is that there is a HUGE amount of work involved.

The larger your network of distributors get..all looking to you for leadership...the more work there will be.

And quite a lot of that work can't be outsourced.

In other words the passive income with this business model is more myth than reality if you want a stable business.


# Distributors in MLM are told that it's their business but if you look at the terms of service when you sign up to be a distributor the reality is entirely different.

You're really bringing in distributorships at your own expense that belong to the parent company.

You could use the network you build to make profits by selling other products and services but this is against the terms of service for most MLMs so now you risk having your distributorship terminated.

Ironically selling books, tapes, seminar tickets and other tools into their networks is how a huge percentage of successful MLM distributors make their main incomes.



Here's an idea that makes more sense.

Why not build a group of people who get together, are nice to each other and buy products and services that people in the group make and supply themselves.

You can get the sense of community from belonging to a group...every cent you spend goes back to other group members and everyone will be increasing their income and finding ways to make money out of doing the things they love.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

I think the biggest stigma MLM companies have is the way they teach you to recruit. The emphasis isn't on being a marketer for your product but finding another person to come in and experience the warmth and glow.

Having been in a couple of MLM companies over years (I join cause I liked the products not to make money) I always have a problem with the "training" that is given.

I always ask myself one very important question - Would I use this product without the MLM or network structure in place? I am part of one now because I like the product and use it. Only have one downline (who was put there by my sponsor to motivate me). The product is solid and provides a useful service for me.

Just like many scammers give IM a bad name, MLM gets a bad name for the behavior of the people involved in it. Your friends are now targets.. oh wait prospects ...to share your new found joy with.

If they don't see the joy, then find new friends.

That is the true sadness of MLM.

Now as for all businesses being MLM - You need to put down the crack pipe. Really. Please.

CEOs are not the top of a MLM system. People get paid to do a job. To provide a service. They get more because of basic economics.

Hmmm hopefully I didn't offend any one actually using a crack pipe.

Ciao
Scott

Ok, so I agree with Brash and ThewealthSquad. The way I see it, if I invision a company it's shaped like a pyramid, as you have your ground workers, your managers, you excuctives, and your CEO. But, they all have jobs to do. Now tell me, who makes the most money? The groundworkers? or the CEO? If it wasn't for the ground workers in ANY company, their would be no CEO!!

And friends being your targets... I understand this, however, think about it... the most promising contacts you have for anything be it MLM, fundraising, religion, politics, ANYTHING is your warm market.. your sphere of influence.

Your warm market is the FIRST place you turn for most anything. (that's why listbuilding is so effective!)

Warmly,

Brandi

[DELETED]

[DELETED]

Having been in the MLM business for more than 30 years,
and having enjoyed the kind of success with that business
model that is the current subject of many people's dreams
all I can say is there is a lot of misinformation and downright
incorrect thinking in this thread... from both proponents and
opponents.

I've debated this topic on this forum more times than I care
to remember so I'm just going to mosey on down the road now...

If you need some serious answers on the right way to do MLM
let me know. I'm always happy to help those who are serious
about developing a real business.

Tsnyder

[DELETED]

The stigma with MLM is all about poor marketing and business training provided for the overwhelming majority of the reps in the industry and the resulting inept ways those reps go about their business.

I'm not an MLM'er (or network marketer - those terms are interchangeable in my mind.) My wife, however, has been in the industry for more than a decade and does quite well as a rep for a company. Like Tsnyder above (the MLM industry needs more class acts like you, sir!) she doesn't repel folks because she doesn't make inept marketing come ons or, as is the case far too often, downright misleading approaches. Several times she's had people reach out to her (both customers and reps) and say that they've heard about the company she represents somewhere else and want to get started with her.

That's because she puts a ton of effort into getting to know people, helping them wherever she can, and deservedly earning their trust.

People who have real business skills can do quite well in a good network marketing company. That's because the rest of us have to do the same thing to gain and keep our customers in our businesses.

If I tried to sell my consulting services to all my friends every time I saw them it wouldn't take long before my friends would cringe when they saw me coming. That MLM'ers are taught to promote their business that way is, I think, a huge part of the stigma the industry has.

Another issue is that, lacking business skills, many MLM'ers spend way too much money going to every single event hosted by their company. If I let my travel budget get that far out of whack with my revenue my business would go broke!

Then there's the control issues noted above in this thread. It's rare to find a network marketing company that will allow their reps to market effectively online. And if you violate their Terms they can yank your distributorship in a heartbeat. I know people who have lost 5 figure monthly incomes this way.

The bottom line, in most cases, reps are effectively more like autonomous salespeople than independent business owners. The thing is, there is nothing wrong with that.

For those willing to color inside the lines and able to learn the business skills to market effectively in a non-slimy way it is a lucrative and proven way to make a very comfortable living.

For the rest, not so much.

Alexa - Fran Tarkenton is a former football QB who has probably been quit from playing longer than you have been alive

And I agree that Trump and Kiyosaki would NOT make me think highly of a business model. If anything it would probably cause me to look very closely at it to see the "catch".

The guys on the top of the pyramid make all the money. The little people at the bottom are screwed. That's how it works... If you get in early and sign up a load of people, you make money. The more levels down, the worse it gets. After a certain number of levels, you'll have to sign up more people under you than the world population to get anywhere.

But the biggest pyramid scam ever is right there and no one sees it. It's called a job. The executives on the top get the million dollar salary and bonuses, the little people get nothing. It's far worse than any MLM, at least you aren't locked up all day and don't have to deal with bosses/ office politics!

The problem with almost all MLM programs is that there is no natural market for their products. I deal with the 130 million pet owners. If you want to keep selling $40 bottles of the latest "miracle" berry juice, "diet" pills that don't work, or overpriced supplements, you have to recruit people who will be forced to order that cr*p on autoship every month, just so you can make a commission on what they consume. I am a full time affiliate marketer who joined a MLM because it sells the best pet foods available and I didn't even know the pet food we had been buying was through a network marketing company. I signed up just to be able to market their products because the pet care industry is $40 billion a year big and I had no other access to products like the ones they have. So I started promoting their products as if it was an affiliate program. I never try to recruit anyone and I never bother people who order to reorder. The products are so good that I have over a 90% retention rate among my customers. It's been 3 years now and I have over 2000 regular customers that I got by using the same techniques that I use for my affiliate products. The difference is that this isn't a CPA deal, they are my customers forever and I get commissions forever. I never have any contact with them and I'm only aware of them because when I wake up I see all the shipment notices in my email that go out in the middle of the night. I do have customers writing to me asking me if they can sign up and join the MLM and all I do is send them a sign up link. If they do sign up all I do is give them free internet marketing training links. If I had to recruit anyone by talking to anyone or had to chase people down to buy anything, I would never do it. As it is, I'm making huge money and my customer base just keeps growing and growing because of that retention rate. I don't think it works like that with berry juice MLMs

MLM's are not necessarily "bad" - just as a gun is not bad - how they are used may be good or bad. There are some very good products sold by MLM companies, but also a lot of cheap junk sold by others. Google Ann Sieg (7 Lies of Network Marketing) - you may find her information interesting.

let's make it simple....

if the product or service by itself is not worth the money you pay for it....

it is not a sustainable business model

call it a pyramid

call it a scam

whatever - but it is not sustainable

there are VERY few that qualify as sustainable business models...

because in most cases, the prices are inflated to attract new recruits with big numbers being thrown around...

while the real money is made from selling training material - because even those who will fail, are still going to buy it....

if you take that income away, many "heavy hitters" will go down...

just my 0.02c

peter

I have never heard of Team National?

The plan should be structured on paying on the sales of products not the recruitment of people.

That will ensure that company is selling products not just staking up on sales people.

I've seen many MLM and Networking companies, and what's bother me more is the fact that the sales process, the urge to get more people under your network, the money to make is always more important than the product or service you sell, care for the final user? not so much... that's not a sustainable business model.

And usually they are overpriced dubious quality products.

I'm really not a big fan of that kind of marketing.