I know it's unethical, but...

by ckbank
60 replies
I know it's unethical, but what do YOU think about marketers who lie and say they make ""$2000" a day or "250,000" a year. Almost all of Clickbank marketers do this.

Note: I understand marketing is a fierce game.
#unethical
  • Profile picture of the author Wage Mills
    you would have to be stupid to purchase one of those without any sort of proof
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Blondi
      What makes you think they don't make 250 a year?
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by Wage Mills View Post

      you would have to be stupid to purchase one of those without any sort of proof
      Then there are a lot of stupid people since all of the big gurus faked it until they made it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        Then there are a lot of stupid people since all of the big gurus faked it until they made it.
        Do you know the Big Guru personally to make a statement like they faked it???

        I have not studied them, so I cannot say anything, but the only one I do know who is a 'BIG Guru' is John Reese who has made money 7 years before training others to do it.

        I made money 5.5 years before last year I did my first training. I would like to know the basis of comments like this.
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        • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
          Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

          I would like to know the basis of comments like this.
          My beef is that they claim to have made fortunes online, yet nobody within the developer circles has a clue who they are. If you are not familiar with them from the guru industry, then you probably haven't heard their name before. That is very odd.

          Kern (the biggest guru of them all) admitted at a seminar that he wasn't making anything before he became a guru: Frank Kern Underachieving
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

          Do you know the Big Guru personally to make a statement like they faked it???

          I have not studied them, so I cannot say anything, but the only one I do know who is a 'BIG Guru' is John Reese who has made money 7 years before training others to do it.

          I made money 5.5 years before last year I did my first training. I would like to know the basis of comments like this.
          Do you know the Big Guru personally to make a statement like they faked it???
          NO, ****BUT**** and I will be stepping on some toes, so just start dancing....

          I HAVE known people to multiply earnings, so a true statement like "I made $1000 in 2 days" becomes an untrue implication like "Make 182,500 a year"!

          I HAVE heard of people encouraging reviews and sales through bribes.

          I HAVE heard of people using such bribes to APPARENTLY achieve something, and leverage THAT into a lot of money.

          I HAVE heard of people almost HIDING a huge price tag behind a tiny one.

          I HAVE seen people basically take a concept drain it of potential, and use their record of success to basically resell a dead battery.

          And HEY, that last one was done by a VERY famous "guru" that the FTC shut down.

          ANOTHER "guru" besides doing much of the above, even suggested having people put in an audience to elicit a positive response.

          You know, technically it IS illegal already, but, if I were with the FTC, I would have a page on the FTC site listing perhaps 1000 often done things that are illegal and 3 I would add would be "extrapolating without a clear notice", "Stating the circumstances that sales were made, if they weren't due directly to personal effort", "CLEARLY listing the terms IN THE SALE PAGE!", "Stating if an existing product or system that is sold to be sold has a limited life or has lost steam".

          BTW I REALLY wonder about people that say the words lie, and truth, mean NOTHING! You setup a PARADOX by saying that all people that say people are liars are liars! BECAUSE, to say that, YOU must be a liar which makes the statement FALSE! To say that someone that says that ALL say the truth is truthful is to say conmen don't exist, which is a LIE!

          The TRUTH is that some DO lie, and the biggest liars want you to believe they are telling the truth. THAT is why they are called CONfidence MEN! They try to gain your CONFIDENCE that they are tellng the truth!

          AND, in my day, people that believed that all told the truth were called NAIVE! Some conmen call them SUCKERS or MARKS!

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        Then there are a lot of stupid people since all of the big gurus faked it until they made it.
        There's really quite a fine line between "faking it" and "positioning."

        Let's say I give a seminar on Saturday, sell ten copies of a $150 course, and then Sunday I get four more phone calls from people who were at the seminar but didn't have $150 at the time.

        What sounds more impressive?

        "I spent four months and $900 to sell 14 copies of this product at a seminar!"

        Or...

        "I made over $2,000 in a single weekend!"

        They're both true. But which one is going to sell more product?

        When you "do the math" on the first one, it's $3,600 a year.

        When you "do the math" on the second one, it's $104,000 a year.

        Because people don't really "do the math." They do their own math. They think "I can give a seminar every week!" even if they can't. They think "I have to work four months before every 14 sales!" even if they don't. And then they multiply or divide or add as though their little fantasy were true.

        So you give them the fantasy that makes you look good.

        Whether you actually "faked" a six-figure income or not, well, that's a matter of interpretation. It's not what you said... but you knew that's what people would think. In fact, that's why you said it.

        So was it a lie?

        That's the real question. Are you lying if you know someone is getting the wrong message from what you said, and you say it anyway - even when you could say something to give them the right message?

        I don't really know whether most people think that hard about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by Wage Mills View Post

      you would have to be stupid to purchase one of those without any sort of proof
      Personally, I wouldn't buy them, even with proof. Even with proof, 99% of them are an absolute joke. If the products really were that successful, they wouldn't be selling them.

      The vast majority of people would be better off just implementing something, rather than buying another info product.

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

        Personally, I wouldn't buy them, even with proof. Even with proof, 99% of them are an absolute joke. If the products really were that successful, they wouldn't be selling them.

        The vast majority of people would be better off just implementing something, rather than buying another info product.

        Tom
        Why do people keep using this as though its fact?

        Its not only not true it shows retarded thinking process's

        I sell my exact system through our coaching program, word for word nut by nut exactly what i do to make money, I give them the software I use, the strategy I use and give them access to me for hot seats on all the sites they create following the plan... So I personally and my partner John Taylor can go through the site and make sure they did everything they were supposed to do.

        You know how many hot seat requests we have had in 2 years?

        Just 2

        4 maybe 5 have used the plan to go on to make 6 figure business in one case a 7 figure business, those 5 have become some of my biggest affiliates

        The successful ones make me more money,

        It pays to get people successful, it pays to give your current strategy to clients. biggest part of selling coaching programs is not the 2k you get paid for it, its the success storys who go on to make you 100 times that in cross promotion sales and affilliate commissions.

        Jeez this is such a dumb myth

        1 in 100 will do everything required, there is no direct competition. And the 1 in a hundred that does do it becomes one of your best business partners
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          Why do people keep using this as though its fact?

          Its not only not true it shows retarded thinking process's
          I'll let other people reflect on the use of this term... (Cliff Notes: Saying something like "that is illogical" is usually safer than using a term widely considered very insensitive to a group with disabilities.)


          As for the other point, are there exceptions? I'm sure there are. However, those exceptions are likely 1 in a 1000. It's like playing the lotto.

          Most people would be better off betting the house on the Lions winning the Superbowl this year.

          People need to stop buying MMO info products and get to work.

          Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        Then there are a lot of stupid people since all of the big gurus faked it until they made it.
        For you to know if your statement is true or not you'd have to not only know "all of the big gurus," but you'd have to have access to all their financial information, as well as the complete history of their actions and thoughts as related to their marketing. It doesn't do anything good for you to make such sweeping statements ... and so there is no mistake, I intended that comment to be helpful to you, not as a criticism. Statements like that can damage your credibility.

        Originally Posted by thriftgirl62 View Post

        If it's not on Clickbank and you can't pay with Paypal, there's a reason for that and it's usually not a good one.
        Really? I earned my living online for years before I put a product on Clickbank or used Paypal. I have my own merchant account. The qualifications and requirements to get a merchant account are far stricter than that of opening a Paypal or Clickbank account. In fact, a lot of people who open a Paypal or Clickbank account wouldn't qualify for a merchant account, so I'm curious as to why you would make a statement like that?

        Personally, if I had to be suspicious because of the payment processor, I'd be more suspicious of a Paypal or Clickbank merchant than a person or business with their own merchant account since the barrier for entry is much lower with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Maybe they do make that much and maybe they don't, you just never know. It is unfortunate but many of the products sold are misleading to say the least.

    It isn't just Clickbank, I believe our own WSO section probably has quite a lot of misleading claims. Even claims such as 'How I Made $1000 in 2 Days' - not a lie perhaps, but often these incomes can be just one of events but don't happen on a regular basis, but they are often worded to assume the person makes this much on a constant basis.

    I don't like it, it causes a lot of people to waste their money buying products that they think will make them rich. But what can you do??? It's the world of marketing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
    It does happen, but many of those guys really are showing their CB stats (and not even the REAL stats across all the networks they promote within.)

    A lot tone it down to make it believable... $3,493,203 last year doesn't really relate with a noob.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt.Lake
    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    I know it's unethical, but what do YOU think about marketers who lie and say they make ""$2000" a day or "250,000" a year.
    I think people that blatantly lie are scum. But it's hard to really know who's lying.

    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    Almost all of Clickbank marketers do this.
    That's a bit of a bold statement... I'd say the people that lie are in the minority.

    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    Note: I understand marketing is a fierce game.
    That doesn't mean you have to lie. Tell the truth and you'll likely stand out from the crowd.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Matt.Lake View Post

      That's a bit of a bold statement... I'd say the people that lie are in the minority.
      I agree with this statement....

      A few years ago, I read something that really struck me as true... I have held that close to my heart since I read it...

      Dude said that you can tell the character of a person by the words they use...

      If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...

      If someone claims that most people are honest, they claim that because they are an honest person, and they figure everyone else is just like them...

      LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author DogScout
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I agree with this statement....

        A few years ago, I read something that really struck me as true... I have held that close to my heart since I read it...

        Dude said that you can tell the character of a person by the words they use...

        If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...

        If someone claims that most people are honest, they claim that because they are an honest person, and they figure everyone else is just like them...

        LOL

        Of course it is also technically true that exactly half of all people are of below average intelligence... (Meaning half are also below average, ethically?)
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      • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I agree with this statement....

        A few years ago, I read something that really struck me as true... I have held that close to my heart since I read it...

        Dude said that you can tell the character of a person by the words they use...

        If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...

        If someone claims that most people are honest, they claim that because they are an honest person, and they figure everyone else is just like them...

        LOL
        Oooh, that was rough.

        Unfortunately, I've found in the world I live in, everyone lies about something.

        Then they back themselves up with rationalizations that "prove" it was okay. Because their heart was "in the right place." Or they're not a liar because their intent was "good" in so-and-so situation under "xyz" circumstances.

        Basically they're just defending their need to be right.

        I just prefer to employ realistic thinking, as bleak as it is sometimes. Retail store theft by employees has been measured and analyzed, and apparently only around 5% of the population is 100% honest all the time and will never "steal with a smile" or lie to call off for any reason ever.

        The rest of us always tell the truth, even when we lie. Just like Tony Montana.

        "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you." - quote from somebody
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Originally Posted by Marc Rodill View Post

          Basically they're just defending their need to be right.
          Yes, I defend my need to be wright, and proud of it.

          George Wright
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
            Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

            Yes, I defend my need to be wright, and proud of it.

            George Wright
            I'm gonna be straight up with you... OOPS. Lol.

            I defend my wright to be rodill. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I agree with this statement....

        A few years ago, I read something that really struck me as true... I have held that close to my heart since I read it...

        Dude said that you can tell the character of a person by the words they use...

        If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...

        If someone claims that most people are honest, they claim that because they are an honest person, and they figure everyone else is just like them...

        LOL
        And when they say "No fluff here," "No hype here," "To be perfectly honest with you," "I really want to help you," WATCH OUT. Here it comes.

        George Wright, Honestly, oops
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      • Profile picture of the author Winlin
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I agree with this statement....

        If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...
        LOL
        This paraphrases a quote I heard many years back:

        "We fear most that which we are"
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
    And, I'd say the people who lie are in the greater majority.

    Looks like we better get out the sword and battle ax!
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  • Profile picture of the author Trieu
    I dont usually trust anyone unless they can provide some genuine proof. I dont mean screenshots, but real-time video proofs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    I think people who do that are short lived and building a business that will not last and they will wonder why. No ethics.

    OK so here is the flip side guys. I do a traffic course thats 85,000 visitors (real stats now closer to 91,000). Now you may think I am lying since its a BIG # (well I like to think). That I have been online since early 2004 with more failure then I can count and worked my A$$ off.

    Truth is these methods get me that much traffic. So dont be quick to judge and dont lie, you are wasting time making little money and ignoring a stable long term business by selling BS

    Cheers
    Mukul
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    The true bottom line is this...

    If you're shelling out hard-earned money based on
    what someone else claims to have earned you don't
    really know much about business.

    Let's assume every income claim is true and accurate.
    What would their earnings have to do with how much
    you might earn doing the same thing?

    The answer... nothing. There are too many variables
    to assume that because I earned "X" amount of dollars
    doing something that you will be able to duplicate my
    results... even if you duplicate my actions.

    You should be investing your capital on things that will
    enhance what you're already doing... or... at the very
    least... in things about which you already have some working
    knowledge.

    Chasing someone else's earnings will rarely end in success.

    Tsnyder
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    Everyone please read Tsnyder's response. Truer words were never spoken.

    As for marketers lying about their incomes. It's a sad indictment on the Internet marketing niche that we should even be having this discussion. Yet, the reality is that there are some dodgy marketers out there engaging in all kinds of deceit. On Clickbank. On the Warrior Forum. In marketing seminars. And elsewhere.

    Personally, I don't believe anyone's figures unless they provide financial statements audited by an independent and reputable CPA. And even then (since accounting statements can be fudged in all sorts of ways) I consider such statements with caution.

    Having said that, I may still buy from someone who I consider to be authoritative even if they can't back up their income claims with an audited statement from a CPA. Just because I don't think they've provided enough proof to justify their income claims doesn't mean I don't like or trust them enough with regard to what they teach. It's just that I'll take their income claims with a grain of salt and focus instead on the product they're selling.

    On the other hand, there are certain marketers who make big income claims and do various other things that, taken together, make me doubt both the quality of their products and their honesty and integrity as human beings. I'll steer clear of those people.

    Unfortunately, it's not always clear who is a stand-up person and who is a shonk. If in doubt about someone, don't buy from them. It's easy enough to some level of due diligence on the Internet, so don't be afraid to do some research.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Your main concern should be "does this marketers business plan make sense to me" ?

    It doesnt matter if they have made money or not because thats not gonna make you any... just look at their system and see if it makes sense to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author SolomonHuey
    You'd be surprised how many "little guys" are out there pulling in that kind of cash.

    Solomon Huey
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by SolomonHuey View Post

      You'd be surprised how many "little guys" are out there pulling in that kind of cash.

      Solomon Huey
      I believe it. Figure less than 1/3rd of people in the world have access to the net. Of the ones that do, a quarter use it 1-2 times a week and maybe another half less than once a day (email). I am willing to bet less than 4-5% are on it as much as any one on this forum. That makes everyone here an expert on at least one thing: the internet. The only thing left is whether you use that expertise to monetize your knowledge.

      PS-all the %s are guesses, but I am thinking they are close.:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author 2oursuccess
    If you have to tell people how good you are chances are you are not that good
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
    I say why worry about who is lying and who isn't?

    If it makes you feel uneasy and you don't trust the vendor....leave it behind.

    Buy the products that make you feel like you're getting dealt a fair hand and put their methods into action.

    Try it out for a while (not a few days but more like until you've REALLY been thru their system and ripped it apart) and see what your own results are.

    I know lots of people making numbers that would make you pass out! Lots of them are on Clickbank but most of them have several streams of income.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
      Wow... My first thought, is... Learn to self promote without self Promotion. That is a lost art in this day and age. Income claims are just that, a Claim, results vary with everyone no matter what the product is.

      The only way to make a viable decision, this is why Money back Guarantees are so important, is to evaluate the sales material, make an educated decision, purchase, skim review, and if it MAKES SENSE!!!

      KEEP THE PRODUCT, and Institute the program within 72 Hours. The biggest lack of success in IM is due to ACTION. People as a rule are lazy, and take no action, then start the Blame Game.

      Read, Plan, EXECUTE, TAKE MASSIVE ACTION... Simple recipe for success to any offer.

      Regards,
      Robert Nelson
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    It's Ethical.. If...

    They are actually making that much!
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  • Profile picture of the author itzpaul
    I think it comes down to personal responsibility. Someone should know how to do their own research on a product they are purchasing, if they don't. That's just their own personal problem.

    I won't waste my money on a product I don't deem worthy of my money.

    TV Infomercials strive and have been for years. Majority of people already know this but still buy the products.

    It's ok if you need to eat and your that broke. But I wouldn't look at it as a long-term sustainable business. You eventually want to put meaning into the world we live in, not just add crap to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author theturd
    all i know if i was making 500k/year you wouldn't see me posting a WSO about
    the title would probably go something like this

    My boss is making 500k/year and as my bonus for this year he said i could sell you his secrets

    off course i'd collect 50% from her but i wouldn't be making the post i tell you that i'd be focused on what was making me the 500k and hopefully it wasn't telling people that at make 500k and pay me to learn how

    justin
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  • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
    Take stuff on the internet with a grain of salt unless you actually have read some REAL reviews on that product.

    I stopped reading guru sales letters when I first made money online and realised that its so simple.

    All these gurus feed you with info after info untill you get a bad case of information overload.

    At that point all you will and can do is overcomplicate things in the hopes of earning $2000 a day.

    Remember, on the internet its a numbers game.
    Its that simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author Optimist Cam
    Misleading people by quoting a figure they havent achieved themselves is unacceptable especially in the make money online niche. Whether it is a sales tactic or not its still wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If someone claims that most people lie, they claim that because they are a liar at heart, and they figure everyone is just like them...

      If someone claims that most people are honest, they claim that because they are an honest person, and they figure everyone else is just like them...
      It is funny how phrases can affect you. When someone says "this is the kind of person I am", I always have the thought "reinventing yourself again?".

      Sometimes the person claiming to make $2000 a day is making that - but doesn't mention only $30 a day comes from the product he's trying to sell you.

      I've known some very high earners offline and online and I can honestly tell you (:p) - that money don't rub off. Damn.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Wanderer
    Seeing any kind of income claim tends to set off alarm bells with me. I don't even really care if it's true or not. What I want to know about a product is: What is it designed to do? Is what it's designed to do something that I have any need for or interest in? If so, does it do what it says it does? Is it designed well enough that I can use it easily? What kind of service from the seller will I get if I have problems with it?

    I probably should have figured this out a lot earlier, but unfortunately I had to learn it the hard way, through some bad experiences. What good does it do me if a product makes a lot of money for its seller by, for instance, operating a sort of pyramid scheme- (selling you a 'business opportunity' which consists of selling the same opportunity to others)? Or if the 'system' being taught basically amounts to seeking out the ignorant and desperate and tricking them into paying money for something they're entitled to by law for free? The amount of money I lost on this kind of 'product' is fairly small, but what I spent on a seminar that was about 50% hard pitches for 5 figure products and 'black hat' techniques for which they turned off the mikes to prevent Google from finding them wasn't. Fortunately the other 50% ranged from merely boring to excellent, so it was not a total loss.

    Studying the copy of the products I've been happy with vs. those I've found worthless has built my bs detector, shown me some of my blind spots and generally been an interesting process. In that sense, all of my mistakes have been useful- which is the main thing I want from them.
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  • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
    If it's not on Clickbank and you can't pay with Paypal, there's a reason for that and it's usually not a good one.

    Marketers don't straight up lie. They tell good stories that people believe because that's what they want to believe. The wild income claims are manipulated and twisted until they are true. It's easy to gross $5,679.00 in one day with no website if your advertising bill is $5,234.00 for that same day. Or, maybe the bill is only $4,229.00 making the earnings they claim accurate.

    $1,450 a day is not bad and it's true. You can do that too with enough trial and error, anyone can figure it out. Don't expect to find what works in any of their secrets exposed books either. Those who find out pay the $4997 seminar fees and they won't spill the beans after paying that much - they smile at such questions and scoff behind your back!

    The truth is always going to be what you personally believe but there's a problem with that: the majority or the authority tells you what to believe. People follow. They don't want to be first, wrong, different or look stupid. How can 80% of the people be wrong? Ask Jim Jones, that's how!

    Sylvie Fortin has no reason NOT to tell you the truth but it wasn't always that way. She had to keep quiet for a long time - with an injured tongue - but that changed when she married power and he married a power house! They earned the right to make a difference by following their own path straight up without fear and that takes time. Until then, most marketers keep quiet.

    Google her 3-part series called Internet Marketing Sins and that's the truth if you really want to know. Common sense rules. What they drive, credit history and where they live tells a story too. You find that out for $50 all day long, including the names of all their neighbors to talk to if you really want the whole scoop!!
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    When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
    I NEVER buy products that have huge income claims. They are likely typical blogging, traffic generation, or affiliate marketing courses.

    When I need to learn how to do something, I will do the research, then research a a good product to give me a foundation and go from there.

    Avoid super hyped up claims at all costs. I especially hate those pages with pictures of mansions, ferraris and wads of cash - Either in the graphics or so called "proof".

    You have to be pretty mindless to fall for any of that garbage - Do what I said above and you'll be fine.

    - Dean
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  • Profile picture of the author hotftuna
    Some here at WF do make that kind of money.

    That does not mean that it will be easy, or realistic your anyone else to duplicate those results.

    Take all claims with a grain of salt and just try to gain enough knowledge from their info to justify the cost.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Internet Marketing Sins by Sylvie Fortin

    Great info and an inside view of the early years. Some change, in my experience, most people do not change. (3% or so, maybe)

    Free Download:

    http://www.internetmarketingsins.com/
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    I think a lot of marketers intentionally want to blur the difference between GROSS and NET...

    particularly with paid traffic, marketers will claim, " I've made over $2000 a day/week/hour, whatever..." Sounds pretty tempting, doesn't it?

    EXCEPT, they are not openly revealing that they spent $1500 to generate that gross income. Many wso's are presented this way. Only if someone calls them on it, will the seller/vendor confess to specific costs..

    But, newbees don't always assume there are costs associated with the earnings claims and are quickly disappointed.
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author Recession_Proof
    I say don't worry about the next man.. Why, because you could be promoting your own stuff getting paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    There are so many lies out there, that person who is honest got to work double. Because they will fighting againt a clickbank screenshot of "230k" in a year. Now, if someone is honest and he put there screenshot of $50k, he got less chance.

    Thats the issue here and i see lot of same things happening in wso section.
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  • Profile picture of the author frankwyatt77777
    I am tired of the hype. Sure most of us would want 2,000 a day. What about those of us who are honest and say we haven't even seen 10.00 a day. We need to stop buying new software and ebooks and refocus.
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  • Profile picture of the author taylorwinfield4
    Unfortunately there are a tonne of guys out there who think it's alright to prey on people who just want a "get rich quick" solution, so they tend to either exaggerate their earnings or completely bluff them.

    However there are certainly some guys who DO make this online, quite a few of them I'm sure. And my hats off to them, they probably worked very hard to get to that point!
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticlesThatRock
    I don't care much about what people claim they make. If they're selling something, then it's easy to figure out whether it is a good product or service. Generally, I reject people who brag about money. I'd much rather hear about what a vendor does for his customers, and what kind of entry barriers he has erected to keep out competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    The question is, "Can you put your head on your pillow at night and sleep well?"
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Marhelper View Post

      The question is, "Can you put your head on your pillow at night and sleep well?"
      I can't believe this stupid idea is STILL around. If true, all conmen would be tired or DEAD! The fact is that MOST very dishonest people DON'T CARE! They wll sleep FINE, because they figure they have enough money and affiliates to get away with whatever.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author judeman
    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    I know it's unethical, but what do YOU think about marketers who lie and say they make ""$2000" a day or "250,000" a year. Almost all of Clickbank marketers do this.

    Note: I understand marketing is a fierce game.
    I think after awhile most IM newbies will see through the facade and generally stay away from such marketers. At least that's what I did!
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  • Hi, I'm perfectly in accord with Tom Goodwin.
    If they are making millions of dollars each year, why they sell their own method for $37 / $47 or $97 ?

    This makes no sense.
    There are only a few people able to cash in so much on the planet, and I think they will keep their system secret.

    See ya,
    Alessandro Zamboni
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  • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
    Banned
    If they are lieing to get sales they are just cheating their customers and consumers losing their respect once the truth surfaces. I'd steer clear away from those tatics even if they make money or not. It's not worth losing your personal values or sleep for a couple dollars IMHO
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Okay, my turn to leave a few whip marks on this dead equine...

      > As others have said, even if your results claims were absolutely true, there's no guarantee that I can reproduce those results. In many cases, there's no guarantee YOU can reproduce them either.

      > As Mark Twain said, there's lies, damned lies and statistics. By choosing your samples carefully, you can make statistics say anything you want them to say. Just ask those selling stock trading systems on the back of carefully selected paper trades.

      > Why would someone with a successful system sell it, rather than keeping it to themselves? It depends...

      If the system relies on inside information in the hands of very few to be effective, and I wanted to continue profiting from that system, I would guard it like the recipe for Coke. Otherwise, I may want to add another layer of income.

      Another reason some share their systems is ego, pure and simple. They want their pedestal and their acolytes.

      > Last item, just for fun...

      Here's my Super Secret System for Making Over $250 Million in Under 73 Seconds:

      1. Wait for the Powerball Jackpot to exceed $250 million.
      2. Purchase a ticket with the winning numbers.
      3. Disclaimer: depending on the way the balls fall, it could take slightly longer than 73 seconds to make your money.

      Think about it...

      Even if the drawing took a full two minutes, that's over $15 Billion per hour!!!!!!!

      :p
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Statistics show that the US puts out more unethical marketers than any other country in the world. Um....is that per capita? They didn't say. But - for us to believe you have to be dishonest to recognize dishonesty around us is no longer the case it used to be. We are inundated with liars everyday anymore. Look at our politicians, lawyers, etc. More and more our society (at least here in the US) has become one of dollar worship. People are even converting over to the idea that if you are poor it means you have no human value. If you have a mansion, cars with house-like price tags, etc - you're aces.

    It is also true that this country was built on entrepreneurial spirit and there are many who are always seeking opportunities. Some want to build their own business in areas they love and others just want quick bucks and are willing to jump at anything...no matter what....to get them. We know both of those types and we know what we think of both of them.

    So here's the catch.

    When people advertise how much money someone can earn with their system, they are not targeting those seeking opportunities to build their own businesses, to love what they are doing and take pride in their work. They are targeting those who would do anything to just about anyone to make a buck. If they actually tell enough about what their program involves to actually make a real business opportunist stop and look twice, they will find the person will be scrutinizing every aspect and asking a LOT of questions before dropping an investment. BUT...those who don't care about what they do as long as they are hauling in butt-loads of cash will jump right in their pockets. When they are disappointed at not becoming the next newest and greatest of the 10 wealthiest on the planet they scream like babies who just got the passifiers pulled out of their mouths. And, when the truth of it comes down that they got scammed when they had been more than willing to turn around and scam everyone themselves if they could swing it doesn't get them any sympathy, they scream a LOT louder.

    I was raised that it is completely gosh social etiquette to discuss earnings publicly. You do not discuss what your business can make - you discuss what the business IS. You get down to the brass tacks of earnings only once the prospective partner or client is interested in the aspects. Any other way is just BS and you are dealing with a snake skin oil salesman.

    If I am reading anything that starts to talk about money without a very relevant reason for money being the point of the discussion, I just click off. I can hear the same **** from guys thinking that telling me the price tag of their car is a motivating factor in getting a date. If he thinks that I have so little integrity and class that that's my interest in him...he's gone NOW. If a marketer thinks that I have so little integrity and class that how much I can get in a day is more of a priority than what I'd be doing...........he's gone. There are plenty of longevity elixir salesmen to buy the snake oil.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      ]We are inundated with liars everyday anymore. Look at our politicians, lawyers, etc.
      So lawyers are not supposed to zealously represent their clients? Now, if you are talking about a lawyer breaking the law or something, then fine. But, it seems to me I hear this crap from people who don't understand the basic need for lawyers to represent ALL clients, whether or not that lawyer thinks that client is guilty or not. Along those lines, not allowing free and open communication between the client and the lawyer would result in a total mess. It isn't for the lawyer to decide the truth, it is for the judge or jury in an adversarial environment. Then again, if one watches the cop/lawyer shows on TV one might think that a majority of lawyers are litigators, when most are not. Deal lawyers (contracts, M&A, JVs, etc.) is where the action is at.

      Of course, we could just adop Iran's legal system
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

        So lawyers are not supposed to zealously represent their clients? Now, if you are talking about a lawyer breaking the law or something, then fine. But, it seems to me I hear this crap from people who don't understand the basic need for lawyers to represent ALL clients, whether or not that lawyer thinks that client is guilty or not. Along those lines, not allowing free and open communication between the client and the lawyer would result in a total mess. It isn't for the lawyer to decide the truth, it is for the judge or jury in an adversarial environment. Then again, if one watches the cop/lawyer shows on TV one might think that a majority of lawyers are litigators, when most are not. Deal lawyers (contracts, M&A, JVs, etc.) is where the action is at.

        Of course, we could just adop Iran's legal system
        Tom, come to Florida and watch TV for a couple of hours. The problem isn't with lawyers representing their clients the best way they know how.

        The problem with lawyers (at least those that advertise in this part of Florida) is that they give the impression that they never lose, that clients always get large settlements and that those clients never pay out of pocket unless they collect. That any perceived injury or grievance could be the key to the mint, if that poor victim only calls the 800 number on the screen.

        They don't mention the facts that sometimes they don't win, that they plan to take anywhere from a third to a half of any award or settlement, and that 'no fee unless you collect' doesn't count $4/page photocopies and similar other "administrative costs"...
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by ckbank View Post

    I know it's unethical, but what do YOU think about marketers who lie and say they make ""$2000" a day or "250,000" a year. Almost all of Clickbank marketers do this.
    Show us just one.
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