I know it's unethical, but...

you would have to be stupid to purchase one of those without any sort of proof

Maybe they do make that much and maybe they don't, you just never know. It is unfortunate but many of the products sold are misleading to say the least.

It isn't just Clickbank, I believe our own WSO section probably has quite a lot of misleading claims. Even claims such as 'How I Made $1000 in 2 Days' - not a lie perhaps, but often these incomes can be just one of events but don't happen on a regular basis, but they are often worded to assume the person makes this much on a constant basis.

I don't like it, it causes a lot of people to waste their money buying products that they think will make them rich. But what can you do??? It's the world of marketing!

It does happen, but many of those guys really are showing their CB stats (and not even the REAL stats across all the networks they promote within.)

A lot tone it down to make it believable... $3,493,203 last year doesn't really relate with a noob.

I think people that blatantly lie are scum. But it's hard to really know who's lying.

That's a bit of a bold statement... I'd say the people that lie are in the minority.

That doesn't mean you have to lie. Tell the truth and you'll likely stand out from the crowd.

And, I'd say the people who lie are in the greater majority.

Looks like we better get out the sword and battle ax!

I dont usually trust anyone unless they can provide some genuine proof. I dont mean screenshots, but real-time video proofs.

I think people who do that are short lived and building a business that will not last and they will wonder why. No ethics.

OK so here is the flip side guys. I do a traffic course thats 85,000 visitors (real stats now closer to 91,000). Now you may think I am lying since its a BIG # (well I like to think). That I have been online since early 2004 with more failure then I can count and worked my A$$ off.

Truth is these methods get me that much traffic. So dont be quick to judge and dont lie, you are wasting time making little money and ignoring a stable long term business by selling BS

Cheers
Mukul

The true bottom line is this...

If you're shelling out hard-earned money based on
what someone else claims to have earned you don't
really know much about business.

Let's assume every income claim is true and accurate.
What would their earnings have to do with how much
you might earn doing the same thing?

The answer... nothing. There are too many variables
to assume that because I earned "X" amount of dollars
doing something that you will be able to duplicate my
results... even if you duplicate my actions.

You should be investing your capital on things that will
enhance what you're already doing... or... at the very
least... in things about which you already have some working
knowledge.

Chasing someone else's earnings will rarely end in success.

Tsnyder

Everyone please read Tsnyder's response. Truer words were never spoken.

As for marketers lying about their incomes. It's a sad indictment on the Internet marketing niche that we should even be having this discussion. Yet, the reality is that there are some dodgy marketers out there engaging in all kinds of deceit. On Clickbank. On the Warrior Forum. In marketing seminars. And elsewhere.

Personally, I don't believe anyone's figures unless they provide financial statements audited by an independent and reputable CPA. And even then (since accounting statements can be fudged in all sorts of ways) I consider such statements with caution.

Having said that, I may still buy from someone who I consider to be authoritative even if they can't back up their income claims with an audited statement from a CPA. Just because I don't think they've provided enough proof to justify their income claims doesn't mean I don't like or trust them enough with regard to what they teach. It's just that I'll take their income claims with a grain of salt and focus instead on the product they're selling.

On the other hand, there are certain marketers who make big income claims and do various other things that, taken together, make me doubt both the quality of their products and their honesty and integrity as human beings. I'll steer clear of those people.

Unfortunately, it's not always clear who is a stand-up person and who is a shonk. If in doubt about someone, don't buy from them. It's easy enough to some level of due diligence on the Internet, so don't be afraid to do some research.

Your main concern should be "does this marketers business plan make sense to me" ?

It doesnt matter if they have made money or not because thats not gonna make you any... just look at their system and see if it makes sense to you.

You'd be surprised how many "little guys" are out there pulling in that kind of cash.

Solomon Huey

If you have to tell people how good you are chances are you are not that good

I say why worry about who is lying and who isn't?

If it makes you feel uneasy and you don't trust the vendor....leave it behind.

Buy the products that make you feel like you're getting dealt a fair hand and put their methods into action.

Try it out for a while (not a few days but more like until you've REALLY been thru their system and ripped it apart) and see what your own results are.

I know lots of people making numbers that would make you pass out! Lots of them are on Clickbank but most of them have several streams of income.

It's Ethical.. If...

They are actually making that much!

I think it comes down to personal responsibility. Someone should know how to do their own research on a product they are purchasing, if they don't. That's just their own personal problem.

I won't waste my money on a product I don't deem worthy of my money.

TV Infomercials strive and have been for years. Majority of people already know this but still buy the products.

It's ok if you need to eat and your that broke. But I wouldn't look at it as a long-term sustainable business. You eventually want to put meaning into the world we live in, not just add crap to it.

all i know if i was making 500k/year you wouldn't see me posting a WSO about
the title would probably go something like this

My boss is making 500k/year and as my bonus for this year he said i could sell you his secrets

off course i'd collect 50% from her but i wouldn't be making the post i tell you that i'd be focused on what was making me the 500k and hopefully it wasn't telling people that at make 500k and pay me to learn how

justin

Wild income claims on the Internet? Say it isn't SO!!!

TomG.

Take stuff on the internet with a grain of salt unless you actually have read some REAL reviews on that product.

I stopped reading guru sales letters when I first made money online and realised that its so simple.

All these gurus feed you with info after info untill you get a bad case of information overload.

At that point all you will and can do is overcomplicate things in the hopes of earning $2000 a day.

Remember, on the internet its a numbers game.
Its that simple.

Misleading people by quoting a figure they havent achieved themselves is unacceptable especially in the make money online niche. Whether it is a sales tactic or not its still wrong.

Seeing any kind of income claim tends to set off alarm bells with me. I don't even really care if it's true or not. What I want to know about a product is: What is it designed to do? Is what it's designed to do something that I have any need for or interest in? If so, does it do what it says it does? Is it designed well enough that I can use it easily? What kind of service from the seller will I get if I have problems with it?

I probably should have figured this out a lot earlier, but unfortunately I had to learn it the hard way, through some bad experiences. What good does it do me if a product makes a lot of money for its seller by, for instance, operating a sort of pyramid scheme- (selling you a 'business opportunity' which consists of selling the same opportunity to others)? Or if the 'system' being taught basically amounts to seeking out the ignorant and desperate and tricking them into paying money for something they're entitled to by law for free? The amount of money I lost on this kind of 'product' is fairly small, but what I spent on a seminar that was about 50% hard pitches for 5 figure products and 'black hat' techniques for which they turned off the mikes to prevent Google from finding them wasn't. Fortunately the other 50% ranged from merely boring to excellent, so it was not a total loss.

Studying the copy of the products I've been happy with vs. those I've found worthless has built my bs detector, shown me some of my blind spots and generally been an interesting process. In that sense, all of my mistakes have been useful- which is the main thing I want from them.

If it's not on Clickbank and you can't pay with Paypal, there's a reason for that and it's usually not a good one.

Marketers don't straight up lie. They tell good stories that people believe because that's what they want to believe. The wild income claims are manipulated and twisted until they are true. It's easy to gross $5,679.00 in one day with no website if your advertising bill is $5,234.00 for that same day. Or, maybe the bill is only $4,229.00 making the earnings they claim accurate.

$1,450 a day is not bad and it's true. You can do that too with enough trial and error, anyone can figure it out. Don't expect to find what works in any of their secrets exposed books either. Those who find out pay the $4997 seminar fees and they won't spill the beans after paying that much - they smile at such questions and scoff behind your back!

The truth is always going to be what you personally believe but there's a problem with that: the majority or the authority tells you what to believe. People follow. They don't want to be first, wrong, different or look stupid. How can 80% of the people be wrong? Ask Jim Jones, that's how!

Sylvie Fortin has no reason NOT to tell you the truth but it wasn't always that way. She had to keep quiet for a long time - with an injured tongue - but that changed when she married power and he married a power house! They earned the right to make a difference by following their own path straight up without fear and that takes time. Until then, most marketers keep quiet.

Google her 3-part series called Internet Marketing Sins and that's the truth if you really want to know. Common sense rules. What they drive, credit history and where they live tells a story too. You find that out for $50 all day long, including the names of all their neighbors to talk to if you really want the whole scoop!!

I NEVER buy products that have huge income claims. They are likely typical blogging, traffic generation, or affiliate marketing courses.

When I need to learn how to do something, I will do the research, then research a a good product to give me a foundation and go from there.

Avoid super hyped up claims at all costs. I especially hate those pages with pictures of mansions, ferraris and wads of cash - Either in the graphics or so called "proof".

You have to be pretty mindless to fall for any of that garbage - Do what I said above and you'll be fine.

- Dean

Some here at WF do make that kind of money.

That does not mean that it will be easy, or realistic your anyone else to duplicate those results.

Take all claims with a grain of salt and just try to gain enough knowledge from their info to justify the cost.

Internet Marketing Sins by Sylvie Fortin

Great info and an inside view of the early years. Some change, in my experience, most people do not change. (3% or so, maybe)

Free Download:

http://www.internetmarketingsins.com/

I think a lot of marketers intentionally want to blur the difference between GROSS and NET...

particularly with paid traffic, marketers will claim, " I've made over $2000 a day/week/hour, whatever..." Sounds pretty tempting, doesn't it?

EXCEPT, they are not openly revealing that they spent $1500 to generate that gross income. Many wso's are presented this way. Only if someone calls them on it, will the seller/vendor confess to specific costs..

But, newbees don't always assume there are costs associated with the earnings claims and are quickly disappointed.
_____
Bruce

I say don't worry about the next man.. Why, because you could be promoting your own stuff getting paid.

There are so many lies out there, that person who is honest got to work double. Because they will fighting againt a clickbank screenshot of "230k" in a year. Now, if someone is honest and he put there screenshot of $50k, he got less chance.

Thats the issue here and i see lot of same things happening in wso section.

I am tired of the hype. Sure most of us would want 2,000 a day. What about those of us who are honest and say we haven't even seen 10.00 a day. We need to stop buying new software and ebooks and refocus.

Unfortunately there are a tonne of guys out there who think it's alright to prey on people who just want a "get rich quick" solution, so they tend to either exaggerate their earnings or completely bluff them.

However there are certainly some guys who DO make this online, quite a few of them I'm sure. And my hats off to them, they probably worked very hard to get to that point!

I don't care much about what people claim they make. If they're selling something, then it's easy to figure out whether it is a good product or service. Generally, I reject people who brag about money. I'd much rather hear about what a vendor does for his customers, and what kind of entry barriers he has erected to keep out competitors.

The question is, "Can you put your head on your pillow at night and sleep well?"

I think after awhile most IM newbies will see through the facade and generally stay away from such marketers. At least that's what I did!

Hi, I'm perfectly in accord with Tom Goodwin.
If they are making millions of dollars each year, why they sell their own method for $37 / $47 or $97 ?

This makes no sense.
There are only a few people able to cash in so much on the planet, and I think they will keep their system secret.

See ya,
Alessandro Zamboni

If they are lieing to get sales they are just cheating their customers and consumers losing their respect once the truth surfaces. I'd steer clear away from those tatics even if they make money or not. It's not worth losing your personal values or sleep for a couple dollars IMHO

Statistics show that the US puts out more unethical marketers than any other country in the world. Um....is that per capita? They didn't say. But - for us to believe you have to be dishonest to recognize dishonesty around us is no longer the case it used to be. We are inundated with liars everyday anymore. Look at our politicians, lawyers, etc. More and more our society (at least here in the US) has become one of dollar worship. People are even converting over to the idea that if you are poor it means you have no human value. If you have a mansion, cars with house-like price tags, etc - you're aces.

It is also true that this country was built on entrepreneurial spirit and there are many who are always seeking opportunities. Some want to build their own business in areas they love and others just want quick bucks and are willing to jump at anything...no matter what....to get them. We know both of those types and we know what we think of both of them.

So here's the catch.

When people advertise how much money someone can earn with their system, they are not targeting those seeking opportunities to build their own businesses, to love what they are doing and take pride in their work. They are targeting those who would do anything to just about anyone to make a buck. If they actually tell enough about what their program involves to actually make a real business opportunist stop and look twice, they will find the person will be scrutinizing every aspect and asking a LOT of questions before dropping an investment. BUT...those who don't care about what they do as long as they are hauling in butt-loads of cash will jump right in their pockets. When they are disappointed at not becoming the next newest and greatest of the 10 wealthiest on the planet they scream like babies who just got the passifiers pulled out of their mouths. And, when the truth of it comes down that they got scammed when they had been more than willing to turn around and scam everyone themselves if they could swing it doesn't get them any sympathy, they scream a LOT louder.

I was raised that it is completely gosh social etiquette to discuss earnings publicly. You do not discuss what your business can make - you discuss what the business IS. You get down to the brass tacks of earnings only once the prospective partner or client is interested in the aspects. Any other way is just BS and you are dealing with a snake skin oil salesman.

If I am reading anything that starts to talk about money without a very relevant reason for money being the point of the discussion, I just click off. I can hear the same **** from guys thinking that telling me the price tag of their car is a motivating factor in getting a date. If he thinks that I have so little integrity and class that that's my interest in him...he's gone NOW. If a marketer thinks that I have so little integrity and class that how much I can get in a day is more of a priority than what I'd be doing...........he's gone. There are plenty of longevity elixir salesmen to buy the snake oil.

Show us just one.