How Much Proof Do You Need?

I started out not needing any proof other than what was offered on the sales page. I mean, if it was on the Internet, it had to be right, right? No further investigation needed.

Then I moved into the 'discovery' that if it was on the Internet, that in itself was enough 'proof' it was rubbish and not to be believed. Again, no further investigation needed.

Now, I tend to look at who's behind it, or who's recommending it. Depending on how well I know the person(s) involved, I'll either consider it worth investigating further, or not.

I'm not sure you can ever 'prove' anything really without trying it out for yourself. But I'm definitely open to suggestions if there's an easier way.

It is so true that you find what you want.

Rose colored glasses comes to mind. We blind ourselves to truths we see all the time because of the outcome we want.

Pretty much we are all out to find what is true or right for us. No one can change your mind about what you believe.

They may present some information, but any mind changing comes from the inside. New information = new evaluation = changed mind.

As a seller, I present the information and let the if go. I have my truth and I present what is true and good to me, others will evaluate and decide.

Some will believe me some won't.

I don't worry about the haters.

When it comes to the Internet marketing niche and more importantly, that WSo board, my proof factor is pretty high. Actually I would go on to say I would never buy anything from anyone that I did not know personally.

Anyway, in general I tend to be pretty easy to sell to. Mostly because I'm open to it. I like sales pitches and I like listening to them. So, if someone has a sales pitch I will usually listen to it. If it's good I'll usually buy.

I'm a sceptic. Basically, if you're SELLING me something which can make ME money, why aren't you doing it yourself? If you ARE doing it yourself, then why the hell are you selling me your 'secret'? Scale it up and retire, don't bother me with your offer.

In situations like this I always think of the advice "Do what you're doing, and if it's working, scale it up". This guy selling this product is NOT scaling it up, he's selling it to the WSO forum instead. I know there are people who test launch products here on the warrior forum and ARE very generous here; I didn't mean to insult you guys. I mean to criticize the "$0 down and $1bazillion dollars in a week WITH NO WORK" crowd.

I always look into ANY MMO offer with an attitude of "What's in it for Me?", and "What's in it for them?"

Usually the answer is that they'll make more money selling me their idea than doing it themselves. And that's fine. I just don't buy (literally) it. (And I mean literally, my only purchase has been the war room. Any other money is spent on services, not reports or ebooks etc. Everything you need to know is available for free in my opinionl)

I'm definitely in the more neurotic group! I'm always on the look out for scams and rip-offs. I used to be a little more gullible but not by much.

I'm turned off by hype, outrageous claims, "big name" Gurus and Warriors.. (for the most part) and overly aggressive sales tactics of any kind.

Basically, I'm not an easy sale.

Some call it cynical, I call it being smart. I rarely get scammed.

So, when it comes to proof, I need A LOT of it. I pretty much discount anything that is normally considered proof like earnings screenshots (fake) and testimonials (also mostly fake.)

It comes down to whether or not I can afford to buy something and get nothing out of it. If I bought a $47 ebook/program and it didn't do anything for me, well at least it was only $47. No big loss!

I Believe anything people say to me that's why I have to be very careful before I buy.... So as much proof as you give me is enough because I believe you, why lie to me ?

It is a bit hard in this MMO world but people on WF often give me hope that many in this online world are ethical. So don't lie about your earnings

1. How much proof do you need?

It's not how much .. it's how genuine it is.

2. Do you typically find proof of truth, or proof of lies?

I more often find lack of proof.

3. What types of proof carry weight with you? What types do you find meaningless?

In a WSO thread ... a whole bunch of really happy customers, and it would also be nice if some of them actually used the product and reported results. Not shills ... they are usually pretty obvious. Just real, spontaneous testimonials.

In an info product WSO thread for example, I find that glowing testimonials that are posted very soon after the WSO opens look and sound like shills. They have not had time to actually implement the strategy. I also find revenue screenshots to be suspect, because many sellers post screenshots of what they are making by selling the product, not by what they are making by using the product.

4. As a seller, do you try to "prove" things? Or do you just try to convey what your product is about and let people draw their own conclusions?

Most of my sales are websites and if I claim the site has traffic and revenue, I upload screenshots of that, along with referring urls and Google analytics. It's not foolproof, but it's all I got. Someone good with Photoshop can fake revenue proof, so it's always a judgement call.

5. Is there any kind of proof that could change your mind about something?

Same answer as #3 or in addition, someone I know and trust personally recommending the product.

Hey Michael, thanks for the OP. Definitely something to be talked about, and here is my thoughts about it.

How much proof do I need?

Depends on the product, if its something I am actively looking for, something that will take my business to the next level, my proof threshold is pretty low from the author at least. Because I want that solution anyway, all I would look for is how helpful is the product going to be, and any results oriented testimonials/reviews.

2. Do you typically find proof of truth, or proof of lies?

I have made some great friends here on the Warrior Forum, mostly people I know like and trust don't need to prove me anything if they are selling it. If they didn't stand behind all their products and services, they wouldn't be in my friends list.

As for wso from someone I don't know, I would go look for warriors that I know and trust to see if they have posted in the thread.

But typically, I don't look for either, I let the OP convince me that he is genuine and authentic, will stand behind his product and vouch for it but it also brings into consideration the kind of wso's I personally like to click and read. I don't usually stay on 'one hit wonders' anyway.

3. What types of proof carry weight with you? What types do you find meaningless?

A very interesting question. To me how much money does the OP make is not significant. Secondary, may be. But not the main factor involved in making the decision of buying the product.

What carries weight? Results oriented testimonials.

You see many people get sucked in with reviews like 'Awesome product, if you buy it, it will do [ ] for you'

or

'Great report, I wonder why I didn't think of the strategy myself, [author] takes you from [ ] and particulary chapter 3 is great ......

Not Interested.

I try and look for results oriented testimonials and reviews. Someone tried it, and then posted their results, to me they are 10 times more valuable and significant, both as a buyer and a seller.

But sadly, this part is mostly overlooked from either point of view.

As a seller, do you try to "prove" things? Or do you just try to convey what your product is about and let people draw their own conclusions?

Both pretty much. I tend to cater to both type of buyers in my sales letters, or at least try to.

-This is what I have, this what it can do for you, this is what it did for other people, here is what to do to get it works


Is there any kind of proof that could change your mind about something?

Results. Other people who tried it and achieved results, Sellers track record and my due diligence I guess.

Didn't realize it would be that long of a reply, but I hope I didn't bore you.

Thanks
Maddi

Not much. Not much at all. About 40 proof will do.




****

Oh, wait. You weren't talking about THAT kind of proof.

OK, in that case I'm with Tina on several of her points. More specifically, I do business with those I already know and trust. They could put up a one-sentence description of the product and an order button... and I'd buy it if I needed it. If I trust the vendor, then no proof required.

If I don't know the vendor, then (as Tina mentioned) proof in the form of a good testimonial from someone else that I know and trust works for me. Screenshots, pics, etc tend not to sway me at all.

Cheers,
Becky

The bigger the claims the more proof I need. However, I usually find myself more skeptical of the "proof" than of the claims. I don't always come up with a definite red light or green light because of some specific point. If there is a glaring falsehood or even an attempt to mislead me I question the whole thing. Often, though, I just take the overall pitch as a whole and think about how it strikes me - believable or questionable.

1. How much proof do you need?
Quite a bit! I am a very cynical person, so I do not trust anybody and I think everyone is out to make a buck of everyone else in this world. I believe that everybody does everything to better themselves - to make money, to be happier, to reach happiness (for religious people).

2. Do you typically find proof of truth, or proof of lies?
Proof of lies ALWAYS - it's much more fun to point out proof of a scammer being a fraud

3. What types of proof carry weight with you? What types do you find meaningless?
Friend's testimonials carry weight with me. If my friend says he's tried the product and it has worked for him, that makes me much more inclined to buy the product. Screenshots are meaningless IMO. Those things can be edited so easily. Most people (non IMers and non techies) are very naive to the tricks you can do to edit these though.

4. As a seller, do you try to "prove" things? Or do you just try to convey what your product is about and let people draw their own conclusions?
I try to prove things though I'm more into Site Flipping than Affiliate Marketing but you do the same thing when writing up your auction page.

It's not about HOW much proof one needs, Oksa. It's about how "true" the proof is. Anyone can say "oh this program made me a $1000s" hur hur hur, but can someone really give a review with realistic results rather than fabricated trash to make a sale.

P.S. people are always going to be skeptical of things they do not know about. At times, I am still skeptical.

Hi Michael - This is a thought provoking post. It should be good for promoting an interesting discussion, thanks. Here are my answers:

How much proof do you need?
Enough to tip the scales one way or the other.

Do you typically find proof of truth, or proof of lies?
A potentially very revealing question. In life, I'm an optimist, so in normal circumstances I would look for the good.

I also realize there are scammers, plus I know a fair bit about copywriting so I can see past the hype most of the time. This is one area where I try not to let my underlying bias influence my decision. In other words, I look for truth and lies and let the conclusion fall where it may. Kind of a "trust but verify" attitude, you might say.

What types of proof carry weight with you? What types do you find meaningless?
Verifiable facts carry the most weight. Logic comes next. If it's someone I've bought from and was happy with the purchase, they have a little more trust from the start. Recommendations from people I trust carry a lot of weight. If the seller is a WF member I'll look at their past posts to see what kind of person they are. To be perfectly honest though, sometimes it just comes down to a "gut feeling" that can't exactly be explained.

Of course, I'm assuming you're asking about a more expensive purchase than something that falls in the impulse purchase price range.

As for what is meaningless (or almost meaningless): screen captures and videos purportedly showing proof of income, testimonials unless I know the person, hype, claims made without proof, reviews that lack facts and details about the product (usually created by affiliates who know little about the product, whose only goal is to earn a commission), big names (unless I know them or have bought from them before), or any claims like these:

a) We've done all the work for you
b) Earn $X in X time ...
c) Dominate the search engines for any keyword
d) Number 1 ranking guaranteed for any keyword
e) Lose weight effortlessly
f) etc.

The one thing I always try to do is see how the copywriter is trying to influence me on an emotional level so I can intentionally avoid making an emotional decision.

As a seller, do you try to "prove" things? Or do you just try to convey what your product is about and let people draw their own conclusions?
Whether I try to "prove" something often depends on the nature of the product and the price. As for letting people draw their own conclusion, I'm not sure how that can be done. When you write sales copy you are trying to influence the conclusion they draw.

Is there any kind of proof that could change your mind about something?
Personal experience, mine or someone I know and trust.

There you go. Hope I learned something.

1. How much proof do you need?
Impossible to answer. It depends on the price of the product etc. I would say enough proof to show that it is at the very least likely to be true.

2. Do you typically find proof of truth, or proof of lies?
Depends on where I look. Some forums I find a lot of lies on, other are more thruth full. Over all with all the scams out there righ tnow I say that atleast 50% are lies.

3. What types of proof carry weight with you? What types do you find meaningless?
3rd party proof that i can verify myself carries weight. Things I have to take for face value less.

4. As a seller, do you try to "prove" things? Or do you just try to convey what your product is about and let people draw their own conclusions?

I try to make sure that the product speaks for itself and that it doesn´t need to be oversold.

5. Is there any kind of proof that could change your mind about something?
Rock solid proof

The standard forms of proof all seem sales hype to me.

Do snapshots and screengrabs really prove that one has made the sales they claim? Does it matter whether one claims to have made $30k in a month or $112,677 in a year with their system, and whether they have graphic evidence to prove it?

Do testimonials mean anything when one is not showing me the complaints other people may have had?

What does work for me by way of proof is answering all my questions. This works best when marketers anticipate my questions and answer them in the sales copy, Even better is when they do this at the very moment the question pops into my head. A letter (or video) which can accomplish this feels like a conversation, and is very persuasive to me. (Gary Halbert was brilliant at doing this.)

Answers inline.

As a seller, if you can't provide proof, it really shows your system you are selling is flawed or in a worst case scenario, a scam. There is no reason why the seller can't provide proof. It's is not a sensitive issue at all.

Next, only provide video proof. Screen shots can be photoshopped EASILY. My university classmate is currently earning part time income by offering designing service at digital point forum and he receive request to photoshop clickbank and paypal transactions all day long.

Lastly, the income proof must be related to the method you are selling. For this part, most of the sellers WILL NOT be able to do it. They will often show the income they are earning but are not TOTALLY RELATED to the method they are promoting. Eg. clickbank income proof the guru uses. Yes the income proof they show is mouth-watering but most of it come's from having affiliates to promote for them and not an affiliate themselves. Just my 2cents

The best proof to me is longevity in the market... Is this a person who has consistently put out great content over a period of years... Second is a recomendation by a peer or person that I trust(beyond just their fame or whatever)... For example, a buddy of mine sent out an affiliate offer to his list about a product that he had used and that another guy had created and was re-releasing. He wasnt sending it to me per se, but I am on his list :-) And I trust him. Sure enough, it is one of the best little courses I've been through in a couple years. i never would have bought it on my own... So, third party endorsement is big too.

Last on my list would be some specific ability... If it was a skill that I wanted to learn and someone could demonstrate to me that they had/knew it... And would teach me it, for x$ then I would likely buy as well...