When is the proper time to start selling to your list?

42 replies
Okay,

So I took people's advice on here and in the past few days, in addition to creating an initial follow-up email I send out 4 days after signup, telling subscribers I value their opinion and that I hope they liked my report, I ALSO have created 5 emails on my autoresponder queue, each to be sent out to my list 7 days apart.

In these emails I strictly give tips and value and don't try to sell anything. However, I'm wondering, being that these five emails are distributed 7 days apart, is 5 weeks too long of a wait BEFORE I sell my list my affiliate product on my review page?

Should I go into one of my emails and inject a promotion of my affiliate product? When is it the proper time to start selling to your list?

Lastly, people have mentioned the words "soft sell" and "hard sell". What's the difference?

Thanks. Your help is MUCH appreciated.

Ike Love
#list #proper #selling #start #time
  • Profile picture of the author Samuel Baker
    Build some confidence from with your list subscribers before any selling / promoting to them. I believe that 5 weeks as you have it set at currently is a bit to long & should be reduced. As long as you are offering and providing the subscribers with some valuable content regularly within the first say 2 weeks you should be able to then proceed to try promoting, just see how things pan out. Watch your statistics, within your list, see who's reading what and opening / clicking on what.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by ikelove View Post

    I'm wondering, being that these five emails are distributed 7 days apart, is 5 weeks too long of a wait BEFORE I sell my list my affiliate product on my review page?
    It would be too long for me, I must say.

    I think it's quite right not to rush, to deliver valuable content first, and all the rest of it, but I do think 5 weeks is too long, yes.

    I also think sending emails regularly, 7 days apart, may be less than optimal, just because it's "day of the week syndrome" which can have downsides. I prefer 6 days apart, myself, to avoid that.

    I normally send them email on days 1, 2, 4, 7, 11, 16 and then every 5 or 6 days. And I'll normally put my first "sales pitch" (which isn't actually a "sales pitch" at all, by most people's standards) in the 4th email I send. Sometimes in the 5th.

    I suspect this varies a bit from niche to niche and from list to list and maybe even according to what made them opt in in the first place.

    Originally Posted by ikelove View Post

    Lastly, people have mentioned the words "soft sell" and "hard sell". What's the difference?
    People use these terms very differently and it's not always clear what they mean.

    To me, in this context, a "hard sell" is content that you might find, more or less on a sales page, i.e. telling people all the benefits, giving them reasons to buy, and answering their probable "objections".

    A "soft sell" might be more like what people call "pre-selling", such as telling your "personal story" about the product, writing a review of it, or something like that.
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    • Profile picture of the author ikelove
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      It would be too long for me, I must say.

      I think it's quite right not to rush, to deliver valuable content first, and all the rest of it, but I do think 5 weeks is too long, yes.

      I also think sending emails regularly, 7 days apart, may be less than optimal, just because it's "day of the week syndrome" which can have downsides. I prefer 6 days apart, myself, to avoid that.

      I normally send them email on days 1, 2, 4, 7, 11, 16 and then every 5 or 6 days. And I'll normally put my first "sales pitch" (which isn't actually a "sales pitch" at all, by most people's standards) in the 4th email I send. Sometimes in the 5th.

      I suspect this varies a bit from niche to niche and from list to list and maybe even according to what made them opt in in the first place.



      People use these terms very differently and it's not always clear what they mean.

      To me, in this context, a "hard sell" is content that you might find, more or less on a sales page, i.e. telling people all the benefits, giving them reasons to buy, and answering their probable "objections".

      A "soft sell" might be more like what people call "pre-selling", such as telling your "personal story" about the product, writing a review of it, or something like that.
      Thanks Alexa, your response helped IMMENSELY. After you do your first or second "soft sell," do you lay off selling for one or two emails or do you sell in EVERY email after that, or is it just some sort of balance?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ikelove View Post

        Thanks Alexa, your response helped IMMENSELY. After you do your first or second "soft sell," do you lay off selling for one or two emails or do you sell in EVERY email after that, or is it just some sort of balance?
        About one promotional email in every three, myself, usually (sometimes one in two) ... and even with those the "promotional" part isn't the whole of the email content.
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        • Profile picture of the author BradBergeron
          Do you guys wait till you have a certain amount of people on your list before you start sending offers? Right now I have like 12. I should probably wait till I get to like 250 though, right?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by BradBergeron View Post

            I should probably wait till I get to like 250 though, right?
            I wouldn't.

            Unless you're super-fast, the first 12 might have forgotten you by then and imagine that you're spamming them, or something. They need to hear from you tomorrow and again on Tuesday, perhaps?
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    • Profile picture of the author ikelove
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


      I normally send them email on days 1, 2, 4, 7, 11, 16 and then every 5 or 6 days. And I'll normally put my first "sales pitch" (which isn't actually a "sales pitch" at all, by most people's standards) in the 4th email I send. Sometimes in the 5th.
      Alexa,

      I'm curious as to how you came up with that sequence. Any particular reason why you do it like this? I'm assuming it's just a "tried and true" way that works for you?
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      • Profile picture of the author iLifestyleClub
        My experience has been that it is best to build relationship first and then gradually promote quality products that I am familiar with and have used.

        Listening to other IMs is interesting as some recommend promoting from day 1 as they say this is when the prospect is most ready to buy.

        This has not been my personal experience. I build relationships and then promote along with giving quality content to them.

        Cheers
        Leanne
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        • Profile picture of the author ikelove
          Originally Posted by iLifestyleClub View Post

          My experience has been that it is best to build relationship first and then gradually promote quality products that I am familiar with and have used.

          Listening to other IMs is interesting as some recommend promoting from day 1 as they say this is when the prospect is most ready to buy.

          This has not been my personal experience. I build relationships and then promote along with giving quality content to them.

          Cheers
          Leanne
          How often do you space apart your emails?
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          • Profile picture of the author iwebnetwork
            I'm just starting out with the whole list building...after everyone saying it's in the list. I have heard everything from 1 to 7 days before sending a offer. Personally I think it depends on what niche your targeting. For instances if your targeting more sensitive topics (feelings, relationship, etc) you may want to build up to an offer, rather than pounding something right away.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ikelove View Post

        Alexa,

        I'm curious as to how you came up with that sequence. Any particular reason why you do it like this? I'm assuming it's just a "tried and true" way that works for you?
        Yes, just "tried and true" for me really, though I haven't tested every different way of doing it in every niche, of course ...

        I think that by the time they know who I am and expect my email, once every 5 or 6 days is enough, but in the initial stages a bit more often is better, following on from the "immediate one" when they first sign up, and one the day after etc., so I just gradually spread them out until they're one every 5 or 6 days. It seems to work ok for me, but it doesn't follow that this is necessariily going to be "right" for anyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    Every 3rd email is a good average. "Soft sell" like previously mentioned. Something like, "By the way, I found something that works great that you may be interested in, Check it out here."
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  • Profile picture of the author 6secrets
    Everything I've learned has told me to start selling right away. The subscriber has taken action by offering their email. They are ready to get moving.
    This doesn't mean you have to get in their face about buying something, but you should at least provide them the option.
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  • Profile picture of the author itzpaul
    I never realized how essential list building is, I definitely need to start building a list from all my visitors. Thanks Alexa.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    RIGHT NOW.

    Send offers to your list only if you have just 1 person on you list and here's the reason:

    (I don't have to type when Alexa is here )

    Unless you're super-fast, the first 12 might have forgotten you by then and imagine that you're spamming them, or something. They need to hear from you tomorrow and again on Tuesday, perhaps?
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      I begin selling right away, when they first opt-in.
      If you offer great value, and your list is targeted, why wait?
      Most are savy enough to know you are intending to sell to them anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    As soon as you have "earned" their trust...
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    • Profile picture of the author guruslasher
      It soooo depends on the niche! If you're in the health industry, say you're promoting a colon cleanser or a product for diabetics, you had better throw bait out to them by the 2nd or 3rd email or they may unsubscribe and look elsewhere. To use a girl analogy; it's like some girls don't get down on the first date and prefer to build a friendship first but others might say "Hey, cut to the chase, homeboy, I need some."..
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  • Profile picture of the author petevamp
    Hey bud spreading your emails out that far defeats the purpose of the list. By doing that they will forget why they subscribed to your list in the first place. Here is how my ar series looks

    0 welcome message
    2 days simple article email free info
    5 days Free video
    7 days Warm up to a sell
    8 days Selling day
    11 days Thank you for the orders mail
    13 days repeat the process again and again
    16 days --------------------
    20 days---------------------
    and so on

    Hope that helps you understand a little better.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Here is a concept that is rarely mentioned. I have subscribed to a list before and they immediately began sending "blasts" to me...there was no sales funnel, but each "blast" contained exceptional quality and delivered so it was OK. If your emails immediately contain and maintain a high level of quality you can get away with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
    A lot of you will disagree with me here...

    Let's face it. The customer knows why they had to enter the email address to get something - so you can sell them something.

    Why hold up the buying process?

    Also, you want to give away something extremely valuable, but SHORT!

    Do NOT EVER give away an entire ebook or a huge audio/video course. Quick consumption is key...

    The reason is because most people will not have the type of patience to go through entire courses. Besides, they will not value it as much since it WAS free in the first place.

    You always want the subscriber to get to the bottom of the report that you gave away, and send them to a special offer.

    If they carry on with that, great.

    As for non buyers, they are still on your list. I suggest you send them the report, 2 days later send them some quick valuable tips (in your niche), a few days later you send a soft sell, then the next 24 hours a hardsell.

    - Dean

    P.S. This isn't some junk I pulled outta my... I got Ryan Deiss's ultimate list building and got tons of golden nuggets like these out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Luke McCormack
    It really depends on your niche and how well your initial report has gone down. Think relationship building and you will not go far wrong. As other posters above have stated, if your email open rate is good then there is no reason not to promote early as your list by opening emails enjoys the value you are giving.

    Regards

    Nigel
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    • Profile picture of the author ikelove
      Originally Posted by guruslasher View Post

      It soooo depends on the niche! If you're in the health industry, say you're promoting a colon cleanser or a product for diabetics, you had better throw bait out to them by the 2nd or 3rd email or they may unsubscribe and look elsewhere. To use a girl analogy; it's like some girls don't get down on the first date and prefer to build a friendship first but others might say "Hey, cut to the chase, homeboy, I need some."..
      Haha...good analogy....thanks!

      Originally Posted by petevamp View Post

      Hey bud spreading your emails out that far defeats the purpose of the list. By doing that they will forget why they subscribed to your list in the first place. Here is how my ar series looks

      0 welcome message
      2 days simple article email free info
      5 days Free video
      7 days Warm up to a sell
      8 days Selling day
      11 days Thank you for the orders mail
      13 days repeat the process again and again
      16 days --------------------
      20 days---------------------
      and so on

      Hope that helps you understand a little better.

      Thanks, this helps. When you send your free video, do put the words "free video" in the subject line or do you choose to "surprise them?"
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      • Profile picture of the author petevamp
        Originally Posted by ikelove View Post

        Haha...good analogy....thanks!




        Thanks, this helps. When you send your free video, do put the words "free video" in the subject line or do you choose to "surprise them?"

        It really depends if I am trying to warm them up to a product or if I am simply just trying to build more trust with the reader. I may say use a title like

        "You Wont Believe This You Have To See It!!!" This hints to them that they will be seeing a video

        or

        Free Video Regarding KeyWord

        or

        "Your About To See Something Amazing" again hints to them they will be watching a video

        I can not disclose all of my tactics but this should give you a pretty good idea of how I do things. My main goal is to get them to not only open the email but click the links with in the emails. I simply find a good youtube video most of the time and host it on a page dedicated to that email series.

        With a basic splash page feel I say a few words telling them I found them a good video and they can watch it absolutly free. Right below the video most of the time is a either an affiliate product I promote or my own product for them to buy. Saying that if they liked the video they will like my recommendation.

        Its doesnt sound like its effective but I get open rates of around 60% and click rates of around 40% and another 20-30% click the recommendation link below the video. It is a way to sell to them instantly with out actually selling to them. The only ones I do not offer with is the articles. Even though I am offering them a product most of the time it is indirect.

        For the product is a simple recommendation at the bottom of a special page I design directly for the readers of that ar series.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Ramsey
    I'm one of those weirdo's who looks at my email list as a way to profit - so, I sell to them immediately.

    My emails are (usually) long-form, consisting of high quality info, then a short sales pitch, but once in a while I'll shoot just a pitch.

    Again, I start selling to them immediately.
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    • Profile picture of the author petevamp
      Originally Posted by Chris Ramsey View Post

      I'm one of those weirdo's who looks at my email list as a way to profit - so, I sell to them immediately.

      My emails are (usually) long-form, consisting of high quality info, then a short sales pitch, but once in a while I'll shoot just a pitch.

      Again, I start selling to them immediately.

      I Am willing to bet though that you lose alot of subscribers doing so. Not to mention after one or 2 emails like that they stop opening your email. As I said above I offer products just not in the emails most of the times. I give them a ton of free info and on each page they have to click to there is a product on it they can take or not. Some do some don't but they are going to stay on my list for many more emails. So I will get them to buy a product from either the next sales promotion I hold or free video or free survey and many of the other things I give to them for free.

      Simply by adding a recomendation at the bottom after they took part in one of the things mentioned above. This is a way to sell to them with out selling to them. It will make them more inclined to buying from you time and time again.

      You know what I do with those who email me like you are saying. I send them directly to my spam box and or block them from sending me emails ever again. And if I get on any of their list again I do the same. Since most of the time I use one of my emails I host for my websites. I dont have to worry about all the junk people like you send out trying to sell to me directly all the time. So those emails never get read and after 30 days they get wiped off so I do not have to bother trying to empty the mailbox either.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Why not offer them something of value (free) in the very first email and then also show them how they can enhance that with something they can buy?

    And then continue that for every email thereafter.

    If people on your list don't want to be sold to, then maybe you don't want them on your list?

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      If people on your list don't want to be sold to, then maybe you don't want them on your list?
      In my case, they don't want to be sold to aggressively or overtly. They don't mind being sold to gently and slowly.

      I know "who they are" (in the broadest sense) because my articles are what attracts them to my sites and lists, and I know who I'm writing for: they're people who won't buy from other marketers, and won't buy if they're sold to quickly or aggressively. There are huge numbers of these people online, all over the world. They're relatively educated, relatively intelligent, relatively "upmarket", relatively affluent and relatively easy to attract, but very few marketers are catering to them. They're broadly the same people in each of my 8 otherwise unrelated niches.

      They don't get on to my lists because they "want to be sold to", but correctly handled, a high proportion of them will still buy. It's a "soft" market, but a very, very big one.

      These considerations really do depend, at least to some extent, on what attracted them to your list in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author prahna1
    Originally Posted by 6secrets View Post

    Everything I've learned has told me to start selling right away. The subscriber has taken action by offering their email.
    Exactly. You should be selling something even if it's in a OTO - One Time Offer on the thank you page. If you don't offer anything for sale then you can't make any money.

    Have you ever heard of the Pareto Principle - 80/20 rule. This is why you MUST offer something for sale.

    Here t goes (mine is an 80/10/10)

    10 % of people who visit or get on your list WON"T EVER BUY A THING FROM YOU!!! Get used to it.

    10% of people who visit WILL BUY. That's just the nature of business. It happens.

    80% of people are in the middle.

    So, no need to worry about those initial 10% right? They are gone anyway. No need to focus on the other 10% they will buy - So you must offer something for sale up front either directly on the landing page, could be solo or with your opt in form, or offer it on the thank you page as the OTO. THIS HAS TO BE INSTALLED ON ALL SITES. Failure to implement this step will cause you to get $0 up front from those 10%.

    SO, focus the follow up and soft sells with info to the other 80%. It has been proven that it takes like 7-10 points of contact before people will buy. You'll really have to train and test your list.

    You can train your list to do anything you want but you got to try. So, offer affiliate programs and consultations in your free offers. These are just viral and a no brainer.

    In your follow up mix it. Send an article on something valuable to your list, but make them go to your blog to read it. Then on the blog you monetize the blog with affiliate offers, your PLR stuff and your real products or services. Is that not subtle?

    Also if you have like a course or something you can always and should always have a PS. so in that PS statement subtly mention that you have the complete package available at your link.

    Bottom line is you just do it. Don't wait.

    Write an article right now. If you can't go to ezinearticles do a search on the topic, read 5 articles, and then compile that "research" into your own words and come up with the top 3 tips to ____. You can even use the exact same title, just swipe it and use it for your article.

    Now post that to your blog. Send the summary to your list and link it back to your blog.

    Now do that once a day or at least once a week or you can outsource it to a company like mine.

    Bottom line is you always want to offer them something because if you don't you are doing them a DIS SERVICE. If you have something that they could benefit from even if it costs them something and you make a commission (isn't that what doing sales at some job is any ways?) then you owe it to them to offer it to them.

    P

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  • Profile picture of the author jurgenherzmann
    I have read that after seventh contact with a customer its the right time to start selling. But who knows, it definitely depends on many factors.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jurgenherzmann View Post

      I have read that after seventh contact with a customer its the right time to start selling.
      I've certainly never read this anywhere, but I've read that the average point at which people first buy is after the 7th contact - that's a very, very different assertion, though. (And I don't know how true and/or how general it is, anyway).
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    In my case, they don't want to be sold to aggressively or overtly. They don't mind being sold to gently and slowly.
    That's interesting to think about.

    Do you find that out through some sort of market research?

    And do you think that these people would be totally turned off if you send them emails with good info and then a link to a product that would enhance whatever you talked about right off the bat?

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      That's interesting to think about.

      Do you find that out through some sort of market research?
      "Informal market research", yes. Not specific results I can quote and analyse, but it's a very strong impression from surveys of my lists, talking to people on them, and so on. In other words "I know it's true but I can't objectively prove it".

      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      And do you think that these people would be totally turned off if you send them emails with good info and then a link to a product that would enhance whatever you talked about right off the bat?
      I've actually tried this, on two occasions, and I got more "unsubscriptions" than I was comfortable with, and I could feel them thinking "Eew, just another person selling stuff". But if I take them a bit more slowly (and I'm only talking about "a bit" more slowly - I normally send the first promotional email after 7 or 8 days anyway, which isn't that slow), after first showing them that I'm not "just that", they will then buy. Some quickly and some more slowly.

      Originally Posted by forfun_cash View Post

      Just hard sell and hard sell. You do not need to build much relationship.
      All my own successful experience is diametrically opposed to this perspective. Which is why it's so important for people to test for themselves and not to rely on others' perspectives. And particularly not ones which can result in "unsubscriptions".
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      • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


        All my own successful experience is diametrically opposed to this perspective. Which is why it's so important for people to test for themselves and not to rely on others' perspectives. And particularly not ones which can result in "unsubscriptions".
        correct. It also depends on the niche one is targeting. For generic make money online niche, i would hard sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vogin
    There is no "proper" time. It's no rocket science. Give your subscribers the value that they subscribed for and then add one or two paid things. Some people will leave your list, some will stay and buy nothing and some will buy.

    There's no pleasing everybody you know. Try, test, see results and repeat/alter your blueprint.
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    • Profile picture of the author prahna1
      Has anyone ever joined email lists like Tellman Knudson.

      Man he sends like 5 emails a day and has offers in like everyone of them. Guess what I've bought several thiings from him. If he waited a week or a month to contact me again I probably would have moved on. but since he kept at it and gave these time sensitive and discount offers, I felt compelled to take advantage and didn't have any thoughts towards tellman one way or the other.

      In fact... I bet some of you are just like me on this one, I typically ONLY buy stuff that is offered to me from a list.

      Very rarely will I just go out searching for a course on IM or list building or how to make moneyh. I can get that stuff for free anywhere - but when someone recommends that I go and check some this "Special Offer" we go to look out of curiosity, then the sales page converts us or we get on some other list and then they sell to us.


      So, you owe it to your list to sell to them. If you don't someone else will. So just find out what they want, and then just provide it to them with your own products, PLR, or affiliate products. THis is really your JOB, so do it.

      I mean why do you want them on your list in the first place? Just to be friends and say what's up? No, you spend time doing this so you can make a living and make money. You eventually want to be compensated right? There's not better time than now, wouldn't you agree?

      No offers = no money. Pretty simple.

      P



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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    I'm in a few 'guru' list where they send 1-2 emails selling (hard selling in fact). Quite sometime ago someone posted a thread on a test he did to his list(couldn't find the thread now sorry). He did a comparison of sending 1 email/day and 2 emails/day. The finding was by sending 2 emails/day, he gets 1.5x the sales amount of sending just 1 email/day.
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    WSO: I PROMISE/GUARANTEE you that this will be the LAST WSO you will ever need to purchase!

    Here's the thing. The above may seem too good to be true but all I can say is there isn't even 1% hype or BS in the above sentence. This WILL BE YOUR LAST WSO to purchase.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      I'm one of those that hit 'em hard until they either buy or die. Of course, I lose a lot of subscribers (90%+), but I have also built a huge list of regular buyers and friends over the years. If you consistently offer great value, you don't have to worry about "building a relationship" first.
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      • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        I'm one of those that hit 'em hard until they either buy or die. Of course, I lose a lot of subscribers (90%+), but I have also built a huge list of regular buyers and friends over the years. If you consistently offer great value, you don't have to worry about "building a relationship" first.
        This advice is gold but many will not agree. Just hard sell and hard sell. You do not need to build much relationship.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by forfun_cash View Post

          This advice is gold but many will not agree. Just hard sell and hard sell. You do not need to build much relationship.
          You do need to build relationships. Many of my customers have been buying regularly for over 12 years. But the relationship began with a sale. If I tried to sweet talk everyone before attempting to make an offer, my lists would be unmanageable. Keeping it simple by weeding out the untargeted subscribers has been working quite well for me. But as others have said, test, test, test.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hans Klein
    Even if your emails don't have a specific call-to-action to buy... it's important that they still add to the selling process.

    For instance, they might educate the prospect on what a smart buying decision would be... drive home the pain the prospect faces and the need for your product or service... or it might even establish you as a credible authority that should be listened to.

    With this said, generally, unless it's part of a pre-launch... I like to include a call-to-action to buy in just about every piece of content I create for clients.

    Think of it this way... the prospect is looking for a solution, finds your site, opts-in... and when you don't offer a product or service for sale, it's a loss of opportunity for all.

    The prospect doesn't get an opportunity to purchase what he or she was looking for, when he or she was looking for it... and you lose out on an opportunity to provide this solution to him or her. People are busy. You might not get his or her attention again.
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  • Profile picture of the author seospan1
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      Originally Posted by seospan1 View Post

      SEO Span sees the underlying inconspicuous needs from the glaring wants. We believe in realistic SEO, and not magical claims. Unlike other SEO firms, there are no exaggeratingly attractive charts that serve as our introduction.
      Wut the hell? 10 straight posts of spam now...reported.


      Anyway, this is an interesting thread and as usual, kudos to you Alexa.

      Only thing I would like to add and am surprised to not see anyone mention in here is how many subscribers to get on your list before you start sending emails to them. Considering they have no idea how many people are on your list and they could be the 10,000th start them up on an email sequence right away even if it is your first subscriber, perhaps that is obvious to all those who have come into this thread though.

      IMO, the day after opt-in is perfect for the first soft sell email which more or less welcomes them again to your mailing list but that is just me. I feel it reminds them again they subscribed and is soon enough for them to remember which site I was in case they might have been on a subscribing binge like I do sometimes lol
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