Be Careful Who You Listen To...

great advice. i have learned this to a great extent the last few months. not every single person you think you can trust, can you trust great post.

Well said.

Although I do think there are some VERY successful people who post on the WF because they want to give back to the community. WF helped them and now they want to help others.

great advice, as a new member, its certainly hard to decide who is right and who is wrong.

As you say, its just personal opinioin

The part I bolded is an excellent point to remember on forums or in real life conversations. Everyone speaks from their own level of experience, and we all filter information through our experiences, beliefs, and biases.

Andrew, I agree with most of your post, but I think the part about "most people who have time to be here are those not making money" is a dangerous assumption. It's because I'm making good money - a full-time income - that I'm able to be here. If I weren't, I'd have to find another way to make money. Nobody is paying my bills for me. I only have to work 5-10 hours a week to maintain my businesses. I work more than that because I enjoy it, but I have a TON of discretionary time.

I know a lot of people that spend a fair bit of time here who are making good money. I'm part of several Skype groups with different Warriors, probably about 50 different Warriors in total. We run ideas past each other, get advice and opinions from each other, and let each other know what's working and what's not. It's the main reason we are together, and for the most part members are screened and voted on before they get in, everyone contributes. I can't think of anyone offhand in these groups who isn't making good money. Most are full-time IM, a few are semi-retired.

Judging how much time a person spends here is tricky business too. I can spend 10 minutes here and post several times, or I can pop in for a couple minutes several times a day and it looks like I'm here a more than I really am. That's usually the case for me. If you go by the front page listing of who is here, I'm always here. The WF is always open in one of my browser tabs, but that doesn't mean I'm actively browsing, it's just convenient to keep logged in.

The rest of your post offers excellent advice newbies would be wise to pay heed to.

You nailed it. Giving back is the primary reason I come here. I like to help people. It makes me feel good.

There are currently over 5000 people viewing this forum, how many do you reckon make a full time living from the internet? 1%? 5%?

I think your example is muddled. Of course you should be selective in who you listen to, but essentially the person you are referring to was correct.

I liked your point it was very pertinant .... can I add a point "be careful who you don't listen to" I have seen alot of people lately argue the odds and ignore advice from very successful online business people...

I once saw Ron Douglas offer someone personalised advice via PM and the person said I can't my post count is too low can I have an email address. (thats where you buy warroom membership just to PM and get great advice)

Just sayingThere are allot of people on here worth listening to sometimes people ignore them at there peril

I agree with all your warnings. However, I don't think making big money or length of time with Internet Marketing is always a safe reason to accept a person's advise. There could be Warriors making a ton of money that don't have a clue about a particular topic. Just because someone is making a full time income online does not mean they have expertise in every topic. Just because someone is not making any money online does not mean they can't contribute some valuable tips or advice. They may have learned something last week, applied it, and already seen good results.

I like the phrase you used that applies to almost every post, on every topic, from every member; "take it with a grain of salt."

I can't post the actual link (I haven't posted enough yet). You will have to paste it in.

But Pro Blogger posted a graph last year of a poll he did- looks like around 15-20% of bloggers are earning a nice part time to full time income. And of that 15-20% around 12% are earning a very good to pretty amazing full time income.

problogger.net/archives/2009/01/02/how-much-money-do-bloggers-make-blogging/

-jen

No one person is the "all-knowing". Listen to what others have to say, take what you want to take, and leave the rest behind.

Great post Andrew. If I had any advice for noobs it would be to spend more time here than on the WSO forum. I am speaking from experience. If you pay attention to the tenor,tone and content of the individuals in this forum,you will soon be able to get an idea whose advice and help you can trust.

Really great advice. Sometime, even with the guy who made couple million dollars online give you ****ty advice. Learn to work with your gut instinct.

This thread is an oxymoron.

Andrew: Great post. This is some of the best advice I have ever heard offered on this site...

GREAT point. One every newbie to business (or to this forum) needs to really
internalize and deeply understand before reading the posts.

Seth Godin calls it "world views" in his book, "All Marketers Are Liars".

I've seen oh-so-many 'experts' spout away on their pet theories, with little
to back up their points of view than specious reasoning, and the ability to
sustain arguments beyond a point where others want to continue debating the
non-issue!

This bit I disagree with (a bit!). People post on forums like this for a
variety of reasons, and some of them DO have time to spend because they make
it a higher priority than other things they do.

I've seen some fabulous insights from short (even one-line) posts made by
RARE visitors to the forum, that's worth more than many others. And though
(maybe) not so much lately, earlier even very successful marketers and
business owners used to post frequently, just to share their experience,
and maybe in the process grow a following in the niche, too.

Today, I just can't tell. And so am cynical of many - until I am sure they
know what they're talking about!

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. - I drafted my reply after reading Andrew's post alone, then went through
the rest of the comments!

How interesting is it that the very part of the post I quoted is also the one
Dennis did. We both started online around the same time, around 1996,
right Booj?

Boogie Jack?

Good post Andrew.

I feel for the new person indiscriminantly soaking up all the information presented.

Just remember, it's all opinion. Just because someone says it's a fact doesn't make it so.

Cheers,

Neil

This is absolutely true. And it goes both ways - someone who never has made any money and have no clue what they are talking about and gurus who have no clue what they are talking about.

Let me explain:

Many gurus, accept it or not, started out in the how to make money field and their first product was a how to make money product. So they have no clue how to start up a fitness site or a personals site or a dog training site. They might NOW but many still don't.

Many gurus have never had to face payroll deadlines. I'm not talking about a VA or affiliates, I'm talking about 10 people who need that paycheck to feed their families. They've never had to deal with discipline problems or go to a funeral of an employee's family member. They've never had to administer urine/drug tests.

Many gurus don't have long standing products (always for sale). They do big launches and take them off the market. Many use pen names. Many resort to tactics that cause regular questions of their honesty and ethics. Many hide behind PO Boxes andd helpdesks. All things a real business can't do.

Most gurus have no clue what's it like to have the phone ringing off the hook or dealing with business licenses or other regulations.

I could go on and on.

Why do I bring this up? Because many gurus get defensive or slap you with negative or snide remarks if you question their experience.

In many of their minds the ONLY way to run a business is a long sales letter, no phone but a "helpdesk", digital products, no employees, touch it once, etc.

So when someone comes along and has a legitimate reason to question those beliefs they are many times labeled as a wanna be or loser or whiner.

The fact is that Internet Marketing techniques can help many kinds of businesses. But many gurus don't understand real world business so they have a one size fits all approach. The phone company, hospital, veternarian, beauty shop, and grocery store should all have a long sales letter for example. While that may increase conversions in some cases, most "real" businesses aren't going to have a 2 page site. Nor are they going to buy a domain name like Florida-cheap-phone-service.com.

There are some professions that certain types of advertising are forbidden. Some professions can't have affiliates for example. Some real businesses are covered by contractual or other obligations to never up sell anyone. Some professions can't use Aweber or GetResponse as their email processor because of privacy regulations.

Etc. etc. etc.

My point isn't whether xyz company should or shouldn't have a long sales letter or digital products or a helpdesk or which way makes more money. My point is that there are real businesses with real success, big and small, that don't or can't do those things and that there are legitimate questions that can and should be asked.

The answer for some is long sales letter, digital products, affiliates, JVs and PPC. The answer for many is many page websites, real products, real employees, real taxes, real offices, etc. and none of the other.

For example how many times have you read that a long sales letter ALWAYS converts better (in their experience). Yes that's true perhaps in their experience. But have they tried one for the local hospital or Microsoft or the local bookstore or the beauty shop? Probably not.

I'm not anti guru. I'm anti pigeonholing everything into a nice little package when it just isn't that easy.

I agree...we all have to test it for ourselves anyways.

That is how all business marketing goes no matter what form and even the most tested are retested for even greater results...Look at ALL THE TOP COMPANIES THAT DO MARKETING

Indeed, there is some frighteningly terrible business advice that is kicked around on this forum.

Very very well said. I believe many people are aware of this but none of them have came out to say. Thanks for letting the public know!

Great post ...

Some threads are like walking through a cow pasture. There should be some sort of warning like >>> Hip-waders Required!

very nice advise - just dont take everything you read as face value - do your own research also - experiment and you will be fine

Good call I only listen to people I know are doing better than me, with that in mind Im careful whose list Im on and take small bits of advice and run with it and test and learn for myself.

When I first started out was on digital point and spent about 6 month wasting my time over there since then I found this place and wikedfire and never looked back but one thing I tend to do is only visit forums in my spare time on an evening

Good point - not everyone who posts here is successful or truthful.

Sometimes the not-yet-successful members have learned a lot from experience and have valuable things to contribute. Sometimes.

I wish I got your advice when I got started.

I wasted so much time reading ebooks and not doing anything.
Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and help myself in the right direction lol.

Then again I wouldnt be as experienced as I am today.

I only listen to bald people.

Thank you. I can't seem to find the thank you button on my keyboard.

Only listen to someone that actually provides value before the pitch

I have to agree. There are many people on this forum who think they created internet marketing and give you their advice on what they think is best for your business.

I have to say, if I followed their advice I wouldn't be making ANY money online now.

This kind of reminds me back in high school where you had the kid who didn't know anything but would like to tell everyone else what to do - but yet he was failing every subject and was the most opinionated person you could find in the room!

This is like that, but bigger!

Great advice Andrew and you are absolutely right. Most people that are making money most likely wouldn't have the time to post on here because they will be too busy making money then trying to make friends or find info. I come on here to post my opinion on here and if people like it they like it, it is their decision. Forums are suppose to help people in building their business not make business decisions. Whatever a person do, that is their business.

I've always endorsed the idea of an income-tiered structure for the Warrior Forums, where you've got to prove how much money you make and thus you gain access to the "under $1000 per month" section, or the "$1000 to $5000 per month" section, etc.

That way, people would get to network and discuss ideas from people who are on the same level as themselves.

Well put Andrew. People would be wise to look a little further than the Warrior forum. The whole "success leaves traces" thing is very true.

Can't go wrong with bald people Thomas. Maybe us hair people are hiding something....in our hair.....

I don't think you have to be making mega dollars to be able to give good advice. I know for myself as an Internet Marketer I am still a bit of a newbie and SEO is just a bunch of funny letters to me. But I have worked for ten years online as a freelance writer and I do give advice to people sometimes if it is about a topic I have had personal experience with. And I guess that makes Anderw's point quite true - we all share from our level of experience and what we know to be true. If I make a point I am not sure about I will say so in a post and then keep checking back to the thread to see if my own learning curve can be improved.
What I do find hard to swallow is those occasional posts that are usually made by newcomers to the forum about their absolute 'only way" to do something and that is where the "grain of salt" aspect comes in for me. I have bought a few programs from warriors recently who swear I will make a fortune, or at least a couple of hundred a week and I haven't made a cent from them (and yes I did add ACTION) to the mix. My bad i guess for believing all that i read on the WF
Just my opinion
Lisa

If one has average intelligence then one can discern whether a person speaks from experience or just spouting hot air. This forum has many intelligent people with great experience, and I have benefited a lot from their posts. To me what the OP says is a no brainer. If you can't tell the warriors from the paper tigers, then your ass is grass.

I like to 'listen' to what everyone says, at least once. I then take it upon myself to find out if what they are saying is fair dinkum or not. It is how I learn; processing other people's opinion so I form my own.

If I find out what they are saying is rot then I just know to not waste my time in the future.

Sometimes what you learn from other people isn't exactly what that person was trying to teach.

Great advice to anybody, who wants to benefit from any forum (no matter businessadvice or gaming).

Put it simpel, read, learn, test, repeat or make another way.

LASSE

While that statement is true and I think your post is well put...

This is one of the very few forums where people who have earned 6, 7, and 8 figures participate on a regular basis.

Yes, most members of this forum have not or do not earn that much...

But the warrior forum is a bit like a water cooler for many highly successful internet marketers who just like to hang out with other like minded people and who genuinely like to contribute in the hopes that others may benefit and succeed.

Also you get a variety of expertise here... not just from the "make money on the net" perspective (not everyone here is trying to sell in the how to get rich quick niches). You will find that there are a few... though their numbers are limited, experts in fields that can offer advice, resources, or pointers in various areas that will greatly benefit your business.

There are also many talents both new and seasoned that can easily be tapped here.

The biggest mistake is to come here thinking that the key is that everyone here is either a "make money on the net" guru or looking to become one. This forum is far more dynamic than that.

The truth is that people of all levels of financial success come to this forum to share in a collaborative spirit of prosperity.

It might surprise you just how much wealth visits or gets its start here.

I think this is an excellent point. You always need to consider the source and remember what works for one business may not always work for another.

Those who can do....

Actually someone can be a student of a topic, in this case IM and know a great deal without having implemented everything. Everything may not be germain to their particular business but there are just things that get picked up along the way.

A good example would be Jeopardy contestants. Some people just absorb information. Few people can claim expertise in more than a few areas. There just isn't enough time to brand yourself as an expert in everything. The branding is more complicated than the learning actually.

If "doing" was the only legitimate avenue of information, who would teach half of the university level subjects?

hey great advice, I think in all areas of life you need to take in all information and try it for yourself. If you dont test it yourself, you will never know. never take anything any single person says to heart

A couple of things:

I need to know how much everyone makes so I then know who makes more than me so I know who to listen to.

I also need this info so I can tell when someone that makes more than you do gives me advice.

Let's say Ron Douglas gives me advice on how to sell some books. So I listen him, because he makes more than I do.

But then Steven King gives me some pointers. Steven King makes more than Ron selling books, so I shouldn't listen to Ron then and start paying attention to Steven King.

Then if Warren Buffet gives me some advice, I'll stop listening to Steven King.

And here's another problem is have with the general consensus on this thread...Those that make the most money may not be the best teachers, or the most willing teachers.

If you are a US sports fan...Who's a better player, Kareem or his college coach John Wooden? Who is the better teacher? Two totally different things. Yet, on this thread they are considered the exact same thing.

I'm guessing 5 years or so ago, I posted a thread asking "who would you buy from if you knew both were 100% true?"

A. Marketer makes $100,000 a year. Has 9 students that followed her coarse also make $100,000 a year.

B. Joe Guru. He makes $1 million a year.

Again, you know for a fact both are true. Both systems generated the same amount of money.

Almost everyone picked #A when this same premise as Andrew's OP, but was put in an entirely different form.

And, there aren't that many threads on this forum that actually talk about making money. And most of those that do aren't complete business plans, but rather bits and pieces, with many options and no right or wrong answers.

If a noob asks for noob-friendly SEO software, who is best qualified to give advice, a guru or another noob?

Also, I'll post stuff from clients or friends that I know and trust...Why can't good info be reported, even though it is second hand? If I screen my sources of info very well, or do something for someone other than myself, why doesn't this count?

And finally, some of the most successful marketers also have the most bias to/against other marketers and (free) resources in their niches. A person can have all the knowledge and skill in the world, but if this person has a bias for money, friendship, enemies, obligations, etc, that "expertise" won't be passed on...

I suggest we take advice on the merits of the advice itself and not some pre-conceived notions...Telling me to put my keywords in my title tags is good advice whether it comes from Bill Gates or from some homeless guy with a sign that says "Will SEO for Food".

Tell me about it, I've wasted so much time and money following the advice of people I don't even know. What's sad is that I can often see some flaw in the plan, but since this guy is supposedly an "expert", I will follow the plan anyway.

That's a good advice though, but being a member of WF doesn't necessarily mean that you'll succeed on the internet if you are not putting in the right effort and not relating with the right people.

I noticed a few months ago I seemed to come in here more then working on my biz.
I enjoy talking with people and helping if I can but I inevitably suffered for it.

I know that a lot of people need help and advice but I found the best help and advice is trial and error. When a solution to a problem fixes your problem then you can replicate that, Expand on it and branch out. Making huge bucks can and does happen but it does not happen overnight.

I see a lot of folks looking for the quick fix i liken it much the same as a drug addict looking for that next hit. You need to study learn apply and Never Give Up!

I had to go back to work for a little while because I focussed on other things instead of my biz and when I did make good cash I spent it so the reality is there are some on here who are successful and do try and help but it is prety apparent who is doing and who is talking of doing. Forums are meant to fill a need for social interaction and though you can learn things it inevitably rests on your own efforts and your own USP

No one is going to give you the million dollar key keep that in mind and consider a place like this or any other as a social networking avenue I have met some great people some I have had arguements with but still respect others i wonder how they put their pants on never mind run a biz.

Do what works for you not what worked for someone else you must always recall that just because one person succeeded using a certain plan or system does not mean that system is going to work for you.

-WD

You're right! I had someone message me once with Black Hat SEO tips and he actually said the White Hat methods I followed were pointless. He made himself sound like a guru. Was a newbie then, but thank God I knew better.

You should definitely take everything with a grain of salt - the bad stuff as well as the good. Some people just exaggerate the good stuff too and make it sound as if getting a huge profit is something very simple to achieve.

Hi Andrew,

Seems like there is a lot more hype here, compared to the old days too. I've noticed every time I take what I have learned, and go back to the basics - things are good.

Keep it simple. Keep focused.

Ignore ALL of the bs.

And make some decent friends.

Mr2020